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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 333

      I’ve seen and heard all the banter back and fourth on both of the QB’s and honestly I’m not sold on either.I think both have big questionmarks going forward in this league (especially on this team) and we have too many holes to fill to be competitive.I'd entertain a very friendly trade for a team that could use the services of a QB they highly covet without breaking the bank.We give up:1st overall pickEagles give up:20th overall pickSam BradfordConnor BarwinNow some of you may be saying why would we want Bradford?  And/or "this trade sucks, I want a FRANCHISE QB!"Keep in mind, neither one of these QB's is a sure thing.  Leftwich err Winston may not make it on the field, much less off of it.  He has a slow windup and a tendency to throw into coverage.  This will lead to a lot of interceptions.  Nevermind the off-field problems which could ruin his career.  And with all of the scrutiny of the NFL lately, he will be on a VERY short leash.  Not a good mix for Tampa.Mariota may end up a HOF.  But he would need a coaching staff in place that would help to groom him.  He certainly isn't ready now unless he's plugged into a system he's familiar with.  Everything else about the kid says he should have success.  He has the right attitude, smarts, decent arm and a quick release.  This is why a team like the Eagles would do this deal.Now for why we would do the deal: We have a desperate need for a pass rusher and OL help.  There are some potential guys in the draft, but hardly any Simeon Rice or Joe Thomas class guys.  Without pressure, Lovie's system does not work.  Period. Connor Barwin had 14.5 sacks last year & 62.5 pass disruptions.  He's GREAT in the community.  He's a young 6-4 264 3-4 LB that will make a perfect 4-3 RDE playing next to McCoy.http://media.philadelphiaeagles.com/media/151409/barwin-connor.pdfBradford IMO can be a good-great QB or he can be used in a trade.In the end, we get a starting calibre RDE ready to play day 1we get a 20pick which should translate to a starting calibre LT/RT and either a starting QB or a starting LG.RDEQB/LT/G/C/RBLT/G/C/RBI'd say that is a pretty good haul for improving our ball club at the end of the 1st round and leaves us open to draft BPA in the rest of the draft.What say you?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1507

      GTFO

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 369

      GTFO

      ^^^^^

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 704

      The Bucs drop 19 spots for Barwin, Bradford and the 20th pick.  ::) ::) LMAO!!! For the Bucs to even take this trade seriously the Eagles would need to include at least 2 more 1st round picks, and I personally would still not take that deal.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      The Bucs drop 19 spots for Barwin, Bradford and the 20th pick.  ::) ::) LMAO!!! For the Bucs to even take this trade seriously the Eagles would need to include at least 2 more 1st round picks, and I personally would still not take that deal.

      Understand that 14.5 sack guys don't grow on trees.It's been 8 years since we had one on this roster.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1784

      Nope. You make a few mistakes here. First of all Connor Barwin and Bradford and 20 are not worth the number one pick. I don’t care how much we need a DE. We also need a QB. Bradford has a proven track record of injuries. It’s a better idea to draft a qb who is younger than Bradford and doesn’t have the injury history. Getting a shot at a franchise qb is much more valuable than a DE and a beat up qb. If we offered Philly this they would accept laughing off the phone until draft day.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1784

      The Bucs drop 19 spots for Barwin, Bradford and the 20th pick.  ::) ::) LMAO!!! For the Bucs to even take this trade seriously the Eagles would need to include at least 2 more 1st round picks, and I personally would still not take that deal.

      Understand that 14.5 sack guys don't grow on trees.It's been 8 years since we had one on this roster.

      Franchise QBs don't grow on trees. We've never had one. Ever.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 704

      Understand that 14.5 sack guys don't grow on trees.It's been 8 years since we had one on this roster.

      I am well aware of that, but neither do QBs. Bradford cannot stay healthy and I would rather gamble with Winston/Mariota then go with Bradford. Also, if the Bucs wanted Bradford and a pass rusher, why didn't the Bucs just trade for Bradford and a pass rusher when he was on the Rams?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 382

      Terrible post, OP. But I do have to commend you on one of the funniest sig pictures ever.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      GTFO

      THIS

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2026

      Worse one yet congrats. +1 for you Sig tho.that's funny as hell.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      Nope. You make a few mistakes here. First of all Connor Barwin and Bradford and 20 are not worth the number one pick. I don't care how much we need a DE. We also need a QB. Bradford has a proven track record of injuries. It's a better idea to draft a qb who is younger than Bradford and doesn't have the injury history. Getting a shot at a franchise qb is much more valuable than a DE and a beat up qb. If we offered Philly this they would accept laughing off the phone until draft day.

      It depends on what you value.I don't think either one of these QB's is Andrew Luck.  That said, our team is not good enough right now to plug any joe in and win (ala Seahawks).The last time we had a top 5 defense, we had Simeon Rice.  That isn't a coincidence.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      The Bucs drop 19 spots for Barwin, Bradford and the 20th pick.  ::) ::) LMAO!!! For the Bucs to even take this trade seriously the Eagles would need to include at least 2 more 1st round picks, and I personally would still not take that deal.

      Understand that 14.5 sack guys don't grow on trees.It's been 8 years since we had one on this roster.

      Franchise QBs don't grow on trees. We've never had one. Ever.

      True.IMO regardless of who we pick in this draft, we still won't have one.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      Understand that 14.5 sack guys don't grow on trees.It's been 8 years since we had one on this roster.

      I am well aware of that, but neither do QBs. Bradford cannot stay healthy and I would rather gamble with Winston/Mariota then go with Bradford. Also, if the Bucs wanted Bradford and a pass rusher, why didn't the Bucs just trade for Bradford and a pass rusher when he was on the Rams?

      I'm not saying Bradford is great.  I recognize that he has health issues.  However, as a stop-gap, he can be effective.  Especially if we use the 1st and 2nd rounders to add OL help.Or we can trade him to the Browns for an additional 1st rounder. 

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Thats basically taking the Eagles trash for our chance at a franchise QB. I think I would fight Lovie Smith and Licht in the parking lot at OBP if they did that. I’ll take that assault charge.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1507

      Thats basically taking the Eagles trash for our chance at a franchise QB. I think I would fight Lovie Smith and Licht in the parking lot at OBP if they did that. I'll take that assault charge.

      They swung first, i saw it

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1862

      This is literally the worst fake Philly proposal ever posted. You want us to move back 19 spots for a hurt QB and a streaky OLB. NO future picks given, no more current picks given. SO literally the worst trade proposal ever. This would get a coach and GM banned from the NFL if they accepted.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Connor Barwin… pfffft.I'm pretty sure we could get Justin Houston for this pick and I don't think I would even take that.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 382

      Thats basically taking the Eagles trash for our chance at a franchise QB. I think I would fight Lovie Smith and Licht in the parking lot at OBP if they did that. I'll take that assault charge.

      Imagine being the franchise that just gave Philly their franchise QB because they wanted to try an revive a QB with 2 ACL tears behind the previous season's worst o-line. NFL Films would make documentaries about how bad of a trade that was. I wouldn't be able to fight Lovie or Licht so much as just cry aggressively in their direction.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      Thats basically taking the Eagles trash for our chance at a franchise QB. I think I would fight Lovie Smith and Licht in the parking lot at OBP if they did that. I'll take that assault charge.

      Trash?Again, take a look at our history with DE'sIf we went into this draft with the 1st overall pick and there was a guy there that was guaranteed to generate 14 sacks as a rookie, and as a bonus he came with the 20th pick and potentially another late 1st round pick, there isn't a GM in his right mind that wouldn't take that deal, unless you were 100% certain that there was a franchise QB available.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 151

      The Bucs drop 19 spots for Barwin, Bradford and the 20th pick.  ::) ::) LMAO!!! For the Bucs to even take this trade seriously the Eagles would need to include at least 2 more 1st round picks, and I personally would still not take that deal.

      Understand that 14.5 sack guys don't grow on trees.It's been 8 years since we had one on this roster.

      we get that, but still GTFO with your gibberish and your nonsense

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 495

      This is literally the worst fake Philly proposal ever posted. You want us to move back 19 spots for a hurt QB and a streaky OLB. NO future picks given, no more current picks given. SO literally the worst trade proposal ever. This would get a coach and GM banned from the NFL if they accepted.

      Agreed. Trading the 1st overall pick would have to go through the Glazers, I imagine. I can say with all certainty L&L would get fired for even floating this as a possibility to them.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Thats basically taking the Eagles trash for our chance at a franchise QB. I think I would fight Lovie Smith and Licht in the parking lot at OBP if they did that. I'll take that assault charge.

      Trash?Again, take a look at our history with DE'sIf we went into this draft with the 1st overall pick and there was a guy there that was guaranteed to generate 14 sacks as a rookie, and as a bonus he came with the 20th pick and potentially another late 1st round pick, there isn't a GM in his right mind that wouldn't take that deal, unless you were 100% certain that there was a franchise QB available.

      Barwin is no guarantee to get 14 sacks and if even if he was, I still wouldn't take that trade. No GM in the league would take that. Not one.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      This is literally the worst fake Philly proposal ever posted. You want us to move back 19 spots for a hurt QB and a streaky OLB. NO future picks given, no more current picks given. SO literally the worst trade proposal ever. This would get a coach and GM banned from the NFL if they accepted.

      Again, think of it more like [2] late 1st round picks, and a 14 sack RDE.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      Barwin is no guarantee to get 14 sacks...

      Do Mariota and Winston come with a guarantee?  How about Leonard Williams?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 495

      Thats basically taking the Eagles trash for our chance at a franchise QB. I think I would fight Lovie Smith and Licht in the parking lot at OBP if they did that. I'll take that assault charge.

      Trash?Again, take a look at our history with DE'sIf we went into this draft with the 1st overall pick and there was a guy there that was guaranteed to generate 14 sacks as a rookie, and as a bonus he came with the 20th pick and potentially another late 1st round pick, there isn't a GM in his right mind that wouldn't take that deal, unless you were 100% certain that there was a franchise QB available.

      Guaranteed?! Connor Barwin has had double digits sacks exactly twice, and didn't crack 5 in his 3 other seasons! He's no more of a guarantee than Michael Johnson was!

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 446

      14.5 sacks guys?only in 2014!MJ 2.0!+ Bradford is injury prone and a FA in 2016

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Barwin is no guarantee to get 14 sacks...

      Do Mariota and Winston come with a guarantee?  How about Leonard Williams?

      I guarantee they all are worth more today than that garbage. There is about 5 players in league that are worth this pick IMO and 3 of them are QBs... Luck, Rodgers, Wilson.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      Guaranteed?! Connor Barwin has had double digits sacks exactly twice, and didn’t crack 5 in his 3 other seasons! He’s no more of a guarantee than Michael Johnson was!

      Difference being that MJ loafed and quit.There is no quit in Barwin.Having him lined up next to McCoy it will be easy pickins for the DL.

      Pick Analysis: When someone came up with that phrase, "consummate team player," Barwin was the type of athlete they had in mind. He has done everything he could to stay on the field, excelling as a pass rusher, pass catcher and kick blocker for the defense, offense and special team units. Barwin has also played for the Bearcats' basketball team at the conclusion of the football season the last two seasons.

      http://www.nfl.com/player/connorbarwin/71197/draft

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      ...There is about 5 players in league that are worth this pick IMO and 3 of them are QBs... Luck, Rodgers, Wilson.

      Again, this isn't 1 player.Barwin + [2] late 1st round picks.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      ...There is about 5 players in league that are worth this pick IMO and 3 of them are QBs... Luck, Rodgers, Wilson.

      Again, this isn't 1 player.Barwin + [2] late 1st round picks.

      Still trash. You must be an eagles fan.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1862

      This is literally the worst fake Philly proposal ever posted. You want us to move back 19 spots for a hurt QB and a streaky OLB. NO future picks given, no more current picks given. SO literally the worst trade proposal ever. This would get a coach and GM banned from the NFL if they accepted.

      Again, think of it more like [2] late 1st round picks, and a 14 sack RDE.

      If bradford went back in the draft after his last few injury years he would go in the 2nd-3rd rounds if even. Barwin has had 2 double digit years as OLB, the other 2 were 3 and 5.  NO TEAM would drop out of the number one pick for that trash. Look at what Washington gave up to move to number 2 from about 6. Tons of picks. We would move back 19 spots and you want to do it for one pick and a hurt QB, a streaky OLB, and nothing more. It's stupid and you need to stop trying to defend it.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      ...There is about 5 players in league that are worth this pick IMO and 3 of them are QBs... Luck, Rodgers, Wilson.

      Again, this isn't 1 player.Barwin + [2] late 1st round picks.

      Still trash. You must be an eagles fan.

      Let me introduce you to trash:57 English, Larry DE 6-2 255 29 6 Northern Illinois96 Fatinikun, T.J. DE 6-2 250 23 1 Toledo92 Gholston, William DE 6-6 281 23 2 Michigan State71 Sidbury, Lawrence, Jr. DE 6-3 269 29 6 Richmond56 Smith, Jacquies DE 6-2 260 25 1 Missouri58 Uko, George DE 6-3 284 23 R USC

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 704

      If Barwin is so great then why are 26 of his 37.5 sacks in two out of his six seasons? You act like Barwin is this model of consistency of a DE when he is far from it. Rice before he signed with Tampa was far more consistent than Barwin has ever been.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1658

      Difference being that MJ loafed and quit.There is no quit in Barwin.

      So what's Barwin's excuse then for his underwhelming years?  I don't watch a lot of Texans or Eagles games.  And how are you valuing Bradford as a late 1st round pick?  Not that Barwin and two late 1st round picks wouldn't still be absolutely awful value for the first pick overall.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1862

      Barwin is no guarantee to get 14 sacks...

      Do Mariota and Winston come with a guarantee?  How about Leonard Williams?

      I guarantee they all are worth more today than that garbage. There is about 5 players in league that are worth this pick IMO and 3 of them are QBs... Luck, Rodgers, Wilson.

      I'm sorry, but no one would give up the first pick for Russel Wilson. I would be pissed as hell if we did that. He is great for the Seahawks, but he just doesn't scream top QB to me. He needs a lot to be as average as he is.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 369

      I really have to give it to the OP.  This is the worst thread I’ve seen in a while…..and that’s really saying something on this board.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 262

      As someone who doesn’t think Winston/Mariota are worth the 1st pick I have to say that your proposal is awful. As others have said, oft injured QB, streaky OLB and pick 20 for No1, with no future picks and no current picks?No.That's an awful awful awful proposal.I'd rather take the risk on Winston/Mariota than take that deal, and I really have no desire for either.

    • stonecoldbucsfan

      Participant
      Post count: 602

      Rams got 3 first rounders from 2 to 6 as well as a second and for a team jumping from 20 to 1 we get the 20th pick, a 3-4 OLB who we don’t know if he can play DE, and a QB whose been injured almost every year he’s played and even when he has hasn’t shown anything better than Glennon. It’s clear you didn’t think this through at all.

    • stonecoldbucsfan

      Participant
      Post count: 602

      I really have to give it to the OP.  This is the worst thread I've seen in a while.....and that's really saying something on this board.

      Agreed, since the draft talk for this year starting getting hot this is definitely one of the dumber threads I've seen.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3169

      Thats basically taking the Eagles trash for our chance at a franchise QB. I think I would fight Lovie Smith and Licht in the parking lot at OBP if they did that. I'll take that assault charge.

      Trash?Again, take a look at our history with DE'sIf we went into this draft with the 1st overall pick and there was a guy there that was guaranteed to generate 14 sacks as a rookie, and as a bonus he came with the 20th pick and potentially another late 1st round pick, there isn't a GM in his right mind that wouldn't take that deal, unless you were 100% certain that there was a franchise QB available.

      Here's the problem with your trade offer.  You're applying your player values (of said rookie QB's), as the global value.  Meaning, every team views these players the same as you.  That isn't the case.  If the Eagles truly want to move up to #1, a late pick, a QB with a $16M (1 year), salary, and a DE who's only had 2 good seasons in his 6 year career should be no where near enough to get the #1 pick.  If they do feel that Mariota is worth moving up to get, you need to get many, many, many picks.  I've said it before, no less than 9 picks in the first 3 rounds should be the selling price.  Bradford is not a franchise QB.  Barwin is not a franchise DE.  The #20 pick is a bigger crap shoot that the #1 pick.  Honestly, I don't even think Bradford is an upgrade over Glennon... though he may end up being better.  That said, I'm not risking $15M+ to find out.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1658

      I really have to give it to the OP.  This is the worst thread I've seen in a while.....and that's really saying something on this board.

      Agreed, since the draft talk for this year starting getting hot this is definitely one of the dumber threads I've seen.

      On the plus side, this is apparently the thread it took to bring us all together.  Winstonites, Mariota-lovers and even the Option C folk can all find common ground here.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      This is literally the worst fake Philly proposal ever posted. You want us to move back 19 spots for a hurt QB and a streaky OLB. NO future picks given, no more current picks given. SO literally the worst trade proposal ever. This would get a coach and GM banned from the NFL if they accepted.

      Again, think of it more like [2] late 1st round picks, and a 14 sack RDE.

      If bradford went back in the draft after his last few injury years he would go in the 2nd-3rd rounds if even. Barwin has had 2 double digit years as OLB, the other 2 were 3 and 5.  NO TEAM would drop out of the number one pick for that trash. Look at what Washington gave up to move to number 2 from about 6. Tons of picks. We would move back 19 spots and you want to do it for one pick and a hurt QB, a streaky OLB, and nothing more. It's stupid and you need to stop trying to defend it.

      Look, if we could haul that number of picks, count me in.The problem is everyone saw how badly that trade went for Washington.  Nobody is entertaining that thought right now.Sure, we could roll the dice on one of these QB's, but neither one is a sure thing.  Not even close.I'd much rather have a starting caliber RDE to finally not see our defense look like swiss cheese.On the other side of the ball, the more picks we have to try and improve the roster the better.  Wasting this pick (that's what a QB pick would be) is too common occurrence for this team.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1862

      This is literally the worst fake Philly proposal ever posted. You want us to move back 19 spots for a hurt QB and a streaky OLB. NO future picks given, no more current picks given. SO literally the worst trade proposal ever. This would get a coach and GM banned from the NFL if they accepted.

      Again, think of it more like [2] late 1st round picks, and a 14 sack RDE.

      If bradford went back in the draft after his last few injury years he would go in the 2nd-3rd rounds if even. Barwin has had 2 double digit years as OLB, the other 2 were 3 and 5.  NO TEAM would drop out of the number one pick for that trash. Look at what Washington gave up to move to number 2 from about 6. Tons of picks. We would move back 19 spots and you want to do it for one pick and a hurt QB, a streaky OLB, and nothing more. It's stupid and you need to stop trying to defend it.

      Look, if we could haul that number of picks, count me in.The problem is everyone saw how badly that trade went for Washington.  Nobody is entertaining that thought right now.Sure, we could roll the dice on one of these QB's, but neither one is a sure thing.  Not even close.I'd much rather have a starting caliber RDE to finally not see our defense look like swiss cheese.On the other side of the ball, the more picks we have to try and improve the roster the better.  Wasting this pick (that's what a QB pick would be) is too common occurrence for this team.

      I am trying to be nice but this post is freaking stupid. You say Winston nor Mariota are a sure thing but then you want us to take Bradford who 100% has proven he isn't a sure thing to stay on the field. Barwin? Again not a sure thing to get double digit sacks seeing as he has done it twice is an OLB and not a DE. More picks to improve? You are not getting more picks, you are getting a lesser pick than what we had. Just stop posting here and lock the thread. It's over.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 704

      Again, you still have addressed how Barwin is a starting caliber RDE. Also, having Bradford as your QB is more risky than Winston/Mariota.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 209

      That trade would make the Bucs better immediately. Then they would stay at about .500 for the next 5+ years as a decent middle of the pack team. No elite QB means no championships. This year, the Bucs sit at number 1, w/ 2 top QB prospects for them to choose from. When will we ever have this chance again, especially if we are choosing in the 15-20 spot?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1658

      This is literally the worst fake Philly proposal ever posted. You want us to move back 19 spots for a hurt QB and a streaky OLB. NO future picks given, no more current picks given. SO literally the worst trade proposal ever. This would get a coach and GM banned from the NFL if they accepted.

      Again, think of it more like [2] late 1st round picks, and a 14 sack RDE.

      If bradford went back in the draft after his last few injury years he would go in the 2nd-3rd rounds if even. Barwin has had 2 double digit years as OLB, the other 2 were 3 and 5.  NO TEAM would drop out of the number one pick for that trash. Look at what Washington gave up to move to number 2 from about 6. Tons of picks. We would move back 19 spots and you want to do it for one pick and a hurt QB, a streaky OLB, and nothing more. It's stupid and you need to stop trying to defend it.

      Look, if we could haul that number of picks, count me in.The problem is everyone saw how badly that trade went for Washington.  Nobody is entertaining that thought right now.Sure, we could roll the dice on one of these QB's, but neither one is a sure thing.  Not even close.I'd much rather have a starting caliber RDE to finally not see our defense look like swiss cheese.On the other side of the ball, the more picks we have to try and improve the roster the better.  Wasting this pick (that's what a QB pick would be) is too common occurrence for this team.

      The only reason the RG3 trade didn't work out for the Redskins is because of the difficulty he's had staying healthy.  Had he been able to keep up the level of play he showed in his rookie year, it would have been a fantastic trade on their part.The only reason for someone to trade up for Mariota or Winston is because they feel their preferred prospect is a franchise-caliber prospect.  That sets the value.  And it's not Barwin, Bradford and the 20th pick.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      This is literally the worst fake Philly proposal ever posted. You want us to move back 19 spots for a hurt QB and a streaky OLB. NO future picks given, no more current picks given. SO literally the worst trade proposal ever. This would get a coach and GM banned from the NFL if they accepted.

      Again, think of it more like [2] late 1st round picks, and a 14 sack RDE.

      If bradford went back in the draft after his last few injury years he would go in the 2nd-3rd rounds if even. Barwin has had 2 double digit years as OLB, the other 2 were 3 and 5.  NO TEAM would drop out of the number one pick for that trash. Look at what Washington gave up to move to number 2 from about 6. Tons of picks. We would move back 19 spots and you want to do it for one pick and a hurt QB, a streaky OLB, and nothing more. It's stupid and you need to stop trying to defend it.

      Look, if we could haul that number of picks, count me in.The problem is everyone saw how badly that trade went for Washington.  Nobody is entertaining that thought right now.Sure, we could roll the dice on one of these QB's, but neither one is a sure thing.  Not even close.I'd much rather have a starting caliber RDE to finally not see our defense look like swiss cheese.On the other side of the ball, the more picks we have to try and improve the roster the better.  Wasting this pick (that's what a QB pick would be) is too common occurrence for this team.

      The problem with equating your proposal with the Redskins/Rams trade is that you're not considering the drop.  If the Jet's, at #6 made the same offer to the Bucs that the Redskins made to St. Louis, I'd do it in a heartbeat.  Your original trade proposal is worse than what the Rams got, and they only dropped 4 spots where we would be dropping 19.  Also, where your analogy is flawed is that the Redskins traded away picks to get their QB, the Bucs would be acquiring picks.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      As someone who doesn't think Winston/Mariota are worth the 1st pick I have to say that your proposal is awful. As others have said, oft injured QB, streaky OLB and pick 20 for No1, with no future picks and no current picks?No.That's an awful awful awful proposal.I'd rather take the risk on Winston/Mariota than take that deal, and I really have no desire for either.

      It takes two to tango.Philly is the rare exception that can plug Mariota in and start.  (Coincidentally, nobody is mentioned as a potential trade up for Winston.)So what does Philly have that we need?We need a RDE that can apply pressure.We need a starting GuardWe need a starting TackleThe draft has some maybe guys at RDE, but nobody all that thrilling.At Tackle and Guard, the draft is deep.The best pressure guy they have is Barwin.  They aren't willing to "mortgage the future" for Mariota, so it would have to be reasonable.Perhaps a deal sweetener that protects both sides such as probowl or rookie of the year or a straight stat line avg that throws more picks our way if Mariota lights it up as expected.2016-2019 clause:If Mariota = Probowl; send 2nd round pick to TampaId think both sides are more interested in making it as front loaded as possible though.Future picks don't help Lovie and Licht if they aren't here to make them and if Philly gave up the farm in future picks, the Duck's leash will be rather short.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11045

      Go away Philly fan.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      This is literally the worst fake Philly proposal ever posted. You want us to move back 19 spots for a hurt QB and a streaky OLB. NO future picks given, no more current picks given. SO literally the worst trade proposal ever. This would get a coach and GM banned from the NFL if they accepted.

      Again, think of it more like [2] late 1st round picks, and a 14 sack RDE.

      If bradford went back in the draft after his last few injury years he would go in the 2nd-3rd rounds if even. Barwin has had 2 double digit years as OLB, the other 2 were 3 and 5.  NO TEAM would drop out of the number one pick for that trash. Look at what Washington gave up to move to number 2 from about 6. Tons of picks. We would move back 19 spots and you want to do it for one pick and a hurt QB, a streaky OLB, and nothing more. It's stupid and you need to stop trying to defend it.

      Look, if we could haul that number of picks, count me in.The problem is everyone saw how badly that trade went for Washington.  Nobody is entertaining that thought right now.Sure, we could roll the dice on one of these QB's, but neither one is a sure thing.  Not even close.I'd much rather have a starting caliber RDE to finally not see our defense look like swiss cheese.On the other side of the ball, the more picks we have to try and improve the roster the better.  Wasting this pick (that's what a QB pick would be) is too common occurrence for this team.

      I am trying to be nice but this post is freaking stupid. You say Winston nor Mariota are a sure thing but then you want us to take Bradford who 100% has proven he isn't a sure thing to stay on the field. Barwin? Again not a sure thing to get double digit sacks seeing as he has done it twice is an OLB and not a DE. More picks to improve? You are not getting more picks, you are getting a lesser pick than what we had. Just stop posting here and lock the thread. It's over.

      The proposal is based on the notion that Bradford could net a late 1st.If that trade value is not true, then greater compensation would be required.Again, for those of you thinking we will net the same trade value that the Rams did for RG3, think again.It will have to be a deal that is reasonable for both parties.

    • Anonymous

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      It takes two to tango.

      Only if you have too... and the Bucs don't.

      So what does Philly have that we need?

      Draft picks.  Period.

      Future picks don't help Lovie and Licht if they aren't here to make them and if Philly gave up the farm in future picks, the Duck's leash will be rather short.

      That's right, future pick's don't help L & L, but I'm ok with Lovie being fired because he chose to trade down and acquire multiple picks... not a bust QB, 1 top 20 pick, and a guy who produces in 33% of his career.

    • Anonymous

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      …Draft picks.  Period.

      They have #20.  That doesn't help much for right now.

    • Anonymous

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      Again, for those of you thinking we will net the same trade value that the Rams did for RG3, think again.

      And that's where you're wrong again.  I'm no big fan of either QB, that said, Winston is rated higher than RG3, and Mariota (for the Eagles), is too.  That said, any deal less than or equal to what the Redskins gave up is nowhere near enough.  The drop for the Bucs would be 19 picks, the drop for the Rams was 4.  Huge difference.  No less than 9 picks in the 1st 3 rounds is acceptable.  Period.

    • Anonymous

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      2 players, 1 injury prone and even when he was healthy wasn’t lighting the league on fire and one draft pick for the #1 overall pick.Sorry not buying it.The Eagles or any team moving up that high would need to give up multiple picks to get to #1. Lovie and Licht would be laughed at and made fun of even more than they already are, if they did this trade. Especially if Winston becomes the next Luck (like he's compared to by Scouts, not your Leftwich comparasion) or if Mariota is a Pro Bowler, the Bucs look even worse and go even longer without solving the QB spot. If the Eagles offered 2015, 2016 1st round picks, 2nd rounders in 2016 and 2017 and those players. The Bucs would be tempted but Philly's gotta give up the picks to go from #20 to #1. Something people fail to understand.

    • Anonymous

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      That trade would make the Bucs better immediately. Then they would stay at about .500 for the next 5+ years as a decent middle of the pack team. No elite QB means no championships. This year, the Bucs sit at number 1, w/ 2 top QB prospects for them to choose from. When will we ever have this chance again, especially if we are choosing in the 15-20 spot?

      An elite QB is not required.Russell did it a year ago and almost won back to back this year.We did it with Brad Johnson.There are many other examples as I'm sure you're aware.What IS absolutely required is talent across the roster, good schemes, and good coaching.It is debatable whether we have good coaching or good schemes, but what is undeniable is that we have a talent deficiency.

    • Anonymous

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      ...Draft picks.  Period.

      They have #20.  That doesn't help much for right now.

      They also have a 2nd and 3rd pick.  They also have picks next year, the year after that, and the year after that.  I don't need all my picks to be right now.

    • Anonymous

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      That trade would make the Bucs better immediately. Then they would stay at about .500 for the next 5+ years as a decent middle of the pack team. No elite QB means no championships. This year, the Bucs sit at number 1, w/ 2 top QB prospects for them to choose from. When will we ever have this chance again, especially if we are choosing in the 15-20 spot?

      An elite QB is not required.

      No one ever said you need an "elite" QB, but you need a legitimate Franchise QB.  When Brad Johnson won, we had an elite defense.  Also, the NFL is a significantly more offensive game now than it was back in '02.

    • Anonymous

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      Again, for those of you thinking we will net the same trade value that the Rams did for RG3, think again.

      And that's where you're wrong again.  I'm no big fan of either QB, that said, Winston is rated higher than RG3, and Mariota (for the Eagles), is too.  That said, any deal less than or equal to what the Redskins gave up is nowhere near enough.  The drop for the Bucs would be 19 picks, the drop for the Rams was 4.  Huge difference.  No less than 9 picks in the 1st 3 rounds is acceptable.  Period.

      I get it and it would be great if we can net anywhere near that, but that remains to be seen.Having RG3 flame out is I'm sure in the mix and a big reason why you don't hear of any team possibly trading up for Winston.Mariota is a special case in that he can be elite in the right system and doesn't have red flags outside of the system argument.Kelly has stated multiple times and made moves (Bluffs?) to his intention to ride it out without Mariota.It honestly may come down to the action of drafting Mariota, calling them up and make the trade at that point.Bottom line, this team needs a RDE, G, RT/LT.  Those are not wants.  Those are necessary to field a competent team.However we get them, great.

    • Anonymous

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      This was doomed the second I saw the initial P in proposed.

    • Anonymous

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      Again, for those of you thinking we will net the same trade value that the Rams did for RG3, think again.

      And that's where you're wrong again.  I'm no big fan of either QB, that said, Winston is rated higher than RG3, and Mariota (for the Eagles), is too.  That said, any deal less than or equal to what the Redskins gave up is nowhere near enough.  The drop for the Bucs would be 19 picks, the drop for the Rams was 4.  Huge difference.  No less than 9 picks in the 1st 3 rounds is acceptable.  Period.

      I get it and it would be great if we can net anywhere near that, but that remains to be seen.Having RG3 flame out is I'm sure in the mix and a big reason why you don't hear of any team possibly trading up for Winston.Mariota is a special case in that he can be elite in the right system and doesn't have red flags outside of the system argument.Kelly has stated multiple times and made moves (Bluffs?) to his intention to ride it out without Mariota.It honestly may come down to the action of drafting Mariota, calling them up and make the trade at that point.Bottom line, this team needs a RDE, G, RT/LT.  Those are not wants.  Those are necessary to field a competent team.However we get them, great.

      I've mentioned this before, like you, I'm no big fan of either QB.  That said, I'd rather the Bucs draft one of them and take a shot, than them trading down for less than quality value.  If they don't get a "King's Ransom" for the #1 pick (to the Eagles), or a reasonable deal to drop to #6 for example, then they should take one of the 2 QB's.

    • Anonymous

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      That trade would make the Bucs better immediately. Then they would stay at about .500 for the next 5+ years as a decent middle of the pack team. No elite QB means no championships. This year, the Bucs sit at number 1, w/ 2 top QB prospects for them to choose from. When will we ever have this chance again, especially if we are choosing in the 15-20 spot?

      An elite QB is not required.

      No one ever said you need an "elite" QB, but you need a legitimate Franchise QB.  When Brad Johnson won, we had an elite defense.  Also, the NFL is a significantly more offensive game now than it was back in '02.

      I'll add that Brad played like an elite quarterback our Superbowl year.  With the caveat that elite quarterbacks put up more modest numbers back in '02.In all sincerity though, teams don't need elite quarterbacks to win a Superbowl.  Anyone can have a good year.  But there's no single factor that will put a team in a position to compete for one year in and year out than having a top quarterback. 

    • Anonymous

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      That trade would make the Bucs better immediately. Then they would stay at about .500 for the next 5+ years as a decent middle of the pack team. No elite QB means no championships. This year, the Bucs sit at number 1, w/ 2 top QB prospects for them to choose from. When will we ever have this chance again, especially if we are choosing in the 15-20 spot?

      An elite QB is not required.Russell did it a year ago and almost won back to back this year.We did it with Brad Johnson.There are many other examples as I'm sure you're aware.What IS absolutely required is talent across the roster, good schemes, and good coaching.It is debatable whether we have good coaching or good schemes, but what is undeniable is that we have a talent deficiency.

      The media, PR included told the fans when Lovie got hired that he was in his basement for a year watching and learning from his mistakes in Chicago. He was fired in Chicago for not fixing the offensive line and getting the QB position right. Is he stupid enough to get fired for the same mistakes here?You are right (in a sense) you don't need a franchise QB to be a contender. But you need someone who is QB consistent and can make plays. Yes, I'm of the belief that Wilson was dragged to consecutive Super Bowls by Beast Mode and a dominant D. His stats from last year back me up. But the Bucs can't rely on being the exception with Loser Lovie, they have to fix the QB position. Seattle is able to rely on the run game and D, as they have dominant lines. The Bucs don't have dominant lines on either offense or defense. The reason Lovie was hired is Bucs fans are stuck in the glory years of the late 90's and early 2000's. Nostalgia is cruel sometimes. Time to move forward it's a new NFL and new league, time to embrace offense Buc fans. If Lovie can't fix the offense, he's gone and time for the Glazers to hire a offensive minded coach who is in tune with the current NFL.

    • Anonymous

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      A sucker’s trade…The only reason you pull the trigger on a deal like this would be if Mariota and Winston were both abducted by aliens...

    • Anonymous

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      Bottom line, this team needs a RDE, G, RT/LT.  Those are not wants.  Those are necessary to field a competent team.

      QB is also a need.  Not a want.  Realistically speaking, it's going to take a couple of seasons (even if things go well) for the team to build a contender.  Even though those four positions don't even encompass the entirety of the team's needs, I fully expect them to address three of them with the first three picks of the draft.  There'll be more next year.Now, you don't like the available quarterbacks.  That's fine.  I understand.  But I'm strongly against the idea of forcing a lousy trade out of desperation.  Frankly, even if I really didn't like the quarterbacks, I'd far rather try to work a small(er) trade to drop down a few spots and still try to get an elite prospect.

    • Anonymous

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      Is this trade even better than staying at 1 and picking the best DE? We get a young guy with a modest contract and Mike Glennon without the #20 pick or two guys with big contracts and the 20th pick.Seems like we're trading 20 mil in cap space for the 20th pick.

    • Anonymous

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      Again, for those of you thinking we will net the same trade value that the Rams did for RG3, think again.

      And that's where you're wrong again.  I'm no big fan of either QB, that said, Winston is rated higher than RG3, and Mariota (for the Eagles), is too.  That said, any deal less than or equal to what the Redskins gave up is nowhere near enough.  The drop for the Bucs would be 19 picks, the drop for the Rams was 4.  Huge difference.  No less than 9 picks in the 1st 3 rounds is acceptable.  Period.

      I get it and it would be great if we can net anywhere near that, but that remains to be seen.Having RG3 flame out is I'm sure in the mix and a big reason why you don't hear of any team possibly trading up for Winston.Mariota is a special case in that he can be elite in the right system and doesn't have red flags outside of the system argument.Kelly has stated multiple times and made moves (Bluffs?) to his intention to ride it out without Mariota.It honestly may come down to the action of drafting Mariota, calling them up and make the trade at that point.Bottom line, this team needs a RDE, G, RT/LT.  Those are not wants.  Those are necessary to field a competent team.However we get them, great.

      I've mentioned this before, like you, I'm no big fan of either QB.  That said, I'd rather the Bucs draft one of them and take a shot, than them trading down for less than quality value.  If they don't get a "King's Ransom" for the #1 pick (to the Eagles), or a reasonable deal to drop to #6 for example, then they should take one of the 2 QB's.

      Well as I said, it seems Kelly is playing hardball.We may have to draft him and have a quick chat about draft value and go over Bradford's injury history again with Chip as a reminder.There is no doubt Kelly wants Mariota on his squad, now it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot.My intention with this thread is to highlight a player that can help this team and be used as part of a reasonable compensation package.OL would be great as well, but I doubt Kelly is too excited about the prospect of having a sketchy line with his new Rookie QB.Future picks are great for the franchise, not so much for the current coaches which is why I doubt they are too excited about that prospect unless they are conditional extras.

    • Anonymous

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      I admire the OP’s diligent defense of this proposal, but no way would I pull the trigger on that.  Each of the top 2 QB’s have question marks, but both are still better than any other prospects coming out since Luck.  You say that Bradford would be a stopgap, but who do you think would be the perfect QB prospect that we would get in next year’s draft?  EVERY QB coming into the league has question marks, and the Bucs aren’t going to have the #1 pick next year.  You take a shot at a QB until you find one.

    • Anonymous

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      It’s time to make the post creator walk the plank

    • Anonymous

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      GTFO

      ^^^^^

      ^^^^^^

    • Anonymous

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      ...But I'm strongly against the idea of forcing a lousy trade out of desperation.  Frankly, even if I really didn't like the quarterbacks, I'd far rather try to work a small(er) trade to drop down a few spots and still try to get an elite prospect.

      Sure nobody wants a lousy trade, but is this trade lousy?I'm not talking draft value.  I'm talking about helping the team get better.A young starting RDE that has proven production, and [2] late 1st round picks for #1They may be able to get further compensation, but this is a trade I would be comfortable with.Those two late 1sts can net a starting LT and Guard or LT and the best RB in the draft.This leaves the top of round 2 to take the best available Guard which should net a very good starter.QB + G vsDE + LT + G + RBI'm going with option 2

    • Anonymous

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      No buc fan no matter how smart or stupid would believe thats a good trade…. None.Lock this thread.

    • Anonymous

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      ...But I'm strongly against the idea of forcing a lousy trade out of desperation.  Frankly, even if I really didn't like the quarterbacks, I'd far rather try to work a small(er) trade to drop down a few spots and still try to get an elite prospect.

      Sure nobody wants a lousy trade, but is this trade lousy?I'm not talking draft value.  I'm talking about helping the team get better.A young starting RDE that has proven production, and [2] late 1st round picks for #1They may be able to get further compensation, but this is a trade I would be comfortable with.Those two late 1sts can net a starting LT and Guard or LT and the best RB in the draft.This leaves the top of round 2 to take the best available Guard which should net a very good starter.QB + G vsDE + LT + G + RBI'm going with option 2

      Yeah that's a typical Bucs draft option 2 and it = FAIL

    • Anonymous

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      I’m so curious as to why the QB the Bucs drafted will be a bust ,but the LT, G, or RB they draft will not be a bust. From a statistical standpoint your chances of drafting a good player go down the further you go in the draft. Even if the Bucs did not like either QB they would be better off with drafting Williams or Fowler and rolling with Glennon than the trade the OP proposed.

    • Anonymous

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      No player affects a game like a QB. Watts is the best defensive player in the game, but he doesn’t put his team in contention for a championship year after year like an elite QB does.

    • Anonymous

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      I'm so curious as to why the QB the Bucs drafted will be a bust ,but the LT, G, or RB they draft will not be a bust. From a statistical standpoint your chances of drafting a good player go down the further you go in the draft. Even if the Bucs did not like either QB they would be better off with drafting Williams or Fowler and rolling with Glennon than the trade the OP proposed.

      Good point, let me revise the trade:Bust + BustvsDE + Bust + Bust + BustI think I'll go with option 2Seriously though it is a valid point.This team has sucked at evaluating talent so I'd much rather get more lotto tickets with the chance of one getting lucky and hitting.

    • Anonymous

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      No player affects a game like a QB. Watts is the best defensive player in the game, but he doesn't put his team in contention for a championship year after year like an elite QB does.

      And Marino was the best in the game ... no ring.Team > one player

    • Anonymous

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      No rings for Marino, but he put his team in contention several years. And, the league has changed quite a bit toward favoring offense. Where have you been? BTW, how many Super Bowl appearances does Watts have?

    • Anonymous

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      This thread still sucks

    • Anonymous

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      ...You take a shot at a QB until you find one.

      That's the quickest way to piss away chances to get better.If we had absolutely no way to trade down, I'd take Leonard Williams.  Just as the team was in the running for Suh, we could also use a playmaker of LW's calibre.  Having said that, we have more holes to fill and there is a market for Mariota.

    • Anonymous

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      No rings for Marino, but he put his team in contention several years. And, the league has changed quite a bit toward favoring offense. Where have you been? BTW, how many Super Bowl appearances does Watts have?

      As I said, team > playerI'm not saying we need Watt and screw the rest of the draft.I'm saying we need to build up the roster.

    • Anonymous

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      ...You take a shot at a QB until you find one.

      That's the quickest way to piss away chances to get better.If we had absolutely no way to trade down, I'd take Leonard Williams.  Just as the team was in the running for Suh, we could also use a playmaker of LW's calibre.  Having said that, we have more holes to fill and there is a market for Mariota.

      Williams isn't on Suhs level in any way. There is a market for Winston and Mariota because they are thought of as top QB talent, you don't pass on top QB talent.

    • Anonymous

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      The Bucs are finally sitting in the top spot w/ elite QB prospects for the taking….and some fans want to trade out. SMH. That's being "careful" to a fault.

    • Anonymous

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      Dominick has said on several occasions that for a team to trade away a top pick in the draft and passing on a potential franchise QB. That team must say to itself “We do not need a franchise QB right now.” I agree with him 100%, and the Bucs are certainly not in a position to say that.

    • Anonymous

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      ...You take a shot at a QB until you find one.

      That's the quickest way to piss away chances to get better.If we had absolutely no way to trade down, I'd take Leonard Williams.  Just as the team was in the running for Suh, we could also use a playmaker of LW's calibre.  Having said that, we have more holes to fill and there is a market for Mariota.

      Williams isn't on Suhs level in any way. There is a market for Winston and Mariota because they are thought of as top QB talent, you don't pass on top QB talent.

      Correction: there is a market for Mariota because his former coach is now in the NFL.  There is no market for Winston.Neither one of these guys is Luck or Payton.

    • Anonymous

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      Dominick has said on several occasions that for a team to trade away a top pick in the draft and passing on a potential franchise QB. That team must say to itself "We do not need a franchise QB right now." I agree with him 100%, and the Bucs are certainly not in a position to say that.

      This is the same guy that traded up for Freeman.

    • Anonymous

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      add lane johnson and another #1 and I’d start to think about it.bradford isn't trash, but you're assigning too much value to him in trade scenario.  1 year contract and horrible injury history doesn't merit much when comparing to #1 pick... he's more of a stop gap (who i probably would convert to a cleveland #1 if their interest was real)

    • Anonymous

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      ...You take a shot at a QB until you find one.

      That's the quickest way to piss away chances to get better.If we had absolutely no way to trade down, I'd take Leonard Williams.  Just as the team was in the running for Suh, we could also use a playmaker of LW's calibre.  Having said that, we have more holes to fill and there is a market for Mariota.

      Williams isn't on Suhs level in any way. There is a market for Winston and Mariota because they are thought of as top QB talent, you don't pass on top QB talent.

      Correction: there is a market for Mariota because his former coach is now in the NFL.  There is no market for Winston.Neither one of these guys is Luck or Payton.

      You honestly are completely freaking clueless now. There is a market for both QBs. Multiple teams would love to be in the position to draft them. You're reasoning is stupid. They aren't Luck and Peyton? Who cares. They don't need to be to make the team better not sure how had that is to understand. Rivers isn't Peyton yet would have loved to have him.

    • Anonymous

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      fwiw, i think there is a strong behind the scenes market for winston… teams just don’t want their names aired publicly in case they can’t pull it off.  they’d get bad PR and wouldn’t get the benefit of the player.

    • Anonymous

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      Dominick has said on several occasions that for a team to trade away a top pick in the draft and passing on a potential franchise QB. That team must say to itself "We do not need a franchise QB right now." I agree with him 100%, and the Bucs are certainly not in a position to say that.

      This is the same guy that traded up for Freeman.

      What does that have to do with it? The guy was still an NFL GM so I respect his knowledge of the game even though I do not always agree with him.

    • Anonymous

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      fwiw, i think there is a strong behind the scenes market for winston... teams just don't want their names aired publicly in case they can't pull it off.  they'd get bad PR and wouldn't get the benefit of the player.

      You don't hear about it because they now Tampa is taking him. Can't trade for someone not up for trade.

    • Anonymous

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      ...You take a shot at a QB until you find one.

      That's the quickest way to piss away chances to get better.If we had absolutely no way to trade down, I'd take Leonard Williams.  Just as the team was in the running for Suh, we could also use a playmaker of LW's calibre.  Having said that, we have more holes to fill and there is a market for Mariota.

      Williams isn't on Suhs level in any way. There is a market for Winston and Mariota because they are thought of as top QB talent, you don't pass on top QB talent.

      Correction: there is a market for Mariota because his former coach is now in the NFL.  There is no market for Winston.Neither one of these guys is Luck or Payton.

      You honestly are completely freaking clueless now. There is a market for both QBs. Multiple teams would love to be in the position to draft them. You're reasoning is stupid. They aren't Luck and Peyton? Who cares. They don't need to be to make the team better not sure how had that is to understand. Rivers isn't Peyton yet would have loved to have him.

      Sorry I haven't been following along that closely.Link me to any story talking about a rumor of a trade up for Winston.Anywhere.

    • suesweat

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      Who let 10lbRod make a new account? I’m not sure who else would post this drivel then proceed to defend it unless they were trolling. Was the OP the guy calling the shots when we drafted Freeman? That would explain a lot!

    • Anonymous

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      You don't hear about it because they now Tampa is taking him. Can't trade for someone not up for trade.

      Exactly, you didn't hear many teams talking about trading up for Luck either because everyone knew the Colts would take him.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1862

      ...You take a shot at a QB until you find one.

      That's the quickest way to piss away chances to get better.If we had absolutely no way to trade down, I'd take Leonard Williams.  Just as the team was in the running for Suh, we could also use a playmaker of LW's calibre.  Having said that, we have more holes to fill and there is a market for Mariota.

      Williams isn't on Suhs level in any way. There is a market for Winston and Mariota because they are thought of as top QB talent, you don't pass on top QB talent.

      Correction: there is a market for Mariota because his former coach is now in the NFL.  There is no market for Winston.Neither one of these guys is Luck or Payton.

      You honestly are completely freaking clueless now. There is a market for both QBs. Multiple teams would love to be in the position to draft them. You're reasoning is stupid. They aren't Luck and Peyton? Who cares. They don't need to be to make the team better not sure how had that is to understand. Rivers isn't Peyton yet would have loved to have him.

      Sorry I haven't been following along that closely.Link me to any story talking about a rumor of a trade up for Winston.Anywhere.

      Already told you why. Tampa is taking Winston number one. Teams know about this so he isn't up for trade. Did you hear about teams trading up for Luck or for RG3?

    • Anonymous

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      ...You take a shot at a QB until you find one.

      That's the quickest way to piss away chances to get better.If we had absolutely no way to trade down, I'd take Leonard Williams.  Just as the team was in the running for Suh, we could also use a playmaker of LW's calibre.  Having said that, we have more holes to fill and there is a market for Mariota.

      Williams isn't on Suhs level in any way. There is a market for Winston and Mariota because they are thought of as top QB talent, you don't pass on top QB talent.

      Correction: there is a market for Mariota because his former coach is now in the NFL.  There is no market for Winston.Neither one of these guys is Luck or Payton.

      You honestly are completely freaking clueless now. There is a market for both QBs. Multiple teams would love to be in the position to draft them. You're reasoning is stupid. They aren't Luck and Peyton? Who cares. They don't need to be to make the team better not sure how had that is to understand. Rivers isn't Peyton yet would have loved to have him.

      Sorry I haven't been following along that closely.Link me to any story talking about a rumor of a trade up for Winston.Anywhere.

      Already told you why. Tampa is taking Winston number one. Teams know about this so he isn't up for trade. Did you hear about teams trading up for Luck or for RG3?

      You're right.  There may be a ton of interest behind the scenes.  Who knows.Bottom line though, neither one of these guys is "the guy".We should get what we can.

    • Anonymous

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      Seems like this is a full time job defending dog poo. Is it worth it chef?

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1862

      ...You take a shot at a QB until you find one.

      That's the quickest way to piss away chances to get better.If we had absolutely no way to trade down, I'd take Leonard Williams.  Just as the team was in the running for Suh, we could also use a playmaker of LW's calibre.  Having said that, we have more holes to fill and there is a market for Mariota.

      Williams isn't on Suhs level in any way. There is a market for Winston and Mariota because they are thought of as top QB talent, you don't pass on top QB talent.

      Correction: there is a market for Mariota because his former coach is now in the NFL.  There is no market for Winston.Neither one of these guys is Luck or Payton.

      You honestly are completely freaking clueless now. There is a market for both QBs. Multiple teams would love to be in the position to draft them. You're reasoning is stupid. They aren't Luck and Peyton? Who cares. They don't need to be to make the team better not sure how had that is to understand. Rivers isn't Peyton yet would have loved to have him.

      Sorry I haven't been following along that closely.Link me to any story talking about a rumor of a trade up for Winston.Anywhere.

      Already told you why. Tampa is taking Winston number one. Teams know about this so he isn't up for trade. Did you hear about teams trading up for Luck or for RG3?

      You're right.  There may be a ton of interest behind the scenes.  Who knows.Bottom line though, neither one of these guys is "the guy".We should get what we can.

      Not a bottom line, YOU don't think these guys are the guy. That's an opinion, not a bottom line. Multiple teams, scouts, experts, and former coaches think otherwise. I'll side with them. Even if true, you don't just move back for a shit trade offer.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Seems like this is a full time job defending dog poo. Is it worth it chef?

      It's a slow day in Philly.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1658

      fwiw, i think there is a strong behind the scenes market for winston... teams just don't want their names aired publicly in case they can't pull it off.  they'd get bad PR and wouldn't get the benefit of the player.

      You don't hear about it because they now Tampa is taking him. Can't trade for someone not up for trade.

      That's pretty much my impression.

    • barbuc

      Participant
      Post count: 39

      ...There is about 5 players in league that are worth this pick IMO and 3 of them are QBs... Luck, Rodgers, Wilson.

      Again, this isn't 1 player.Barwin + [2] late 1st round picks.

      No, no, and no. And then, NO AGAIN! Stop trying to play this off as something it isn't. This ISN'T Barwin and "2 late first round picks." It's Barwin, a damaged quarterback, and a late first round pick.Barwin - is he the type of player I'd love to have on my team? Hell yeah he is. But let's look at his past production. When has the guy had back to back double digit sack seasons? That's right, he hasn't.Bradford - a quarterback coming off multiple ACL tears? He shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as this trade. And that's BEFORE even mentioning what he may.. Or may not be... As a passer.This is a terrible trade and, thankfully, would never happen. This is the type of trade a team makes to move up a few spots to draft a player that they highly covet, not a trade a team makes to move 19 SPOTS IN THE DRAFT to 1st overall.Maybe this trade makes sense.... In Madden. But I'm pretty sure even the CPU in Madden is smart enough to realize this is one dumbass trade.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      fwiw, i think there is a strong behind the scenes market for winston... teams just don't want their names aired publicly in case they can't pull it off.  they'd get bad PR and wouldn't get the benefit of the player.

      You don't hear about it because they now Tampa is taking him. Can't trade for someone not up for trade.

      That's pretty much my impression.

      Or maybe Goodell doesn't want word getting out that teams want him...

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      ...There is about 5 players in league that are worth this pick IMO and 3 of them are QBs... Luck, Rodgers, Wilson.

      Again, this isn't 1 player.Barwin + [2] late 1st round picks.

      No, no, and no. And then, NO AGAIN! Stop trying to play this off as something it isn't. This ISN'T Barwin and "2 late first round picks." It's Barwin, a damaged quarterback, and a late first round pick.Barwin - is he the type of player I'd love to have on my team? Hell yeah he is. But let's look at his past production. When has the guy had back to back double digit sack seasons? That's right, he hasn't.Bradford - a quarterback coming off multiple ACL tears? He shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as this trade. And that's BEFORE even mentioning what he may.. Or may not be... As a passer.This is a terrible trade and, thankfully, would never happen. This is the type of trade a team makes to move up a few spots to draft a player that they highly covet, not a trade a team makes to move 19 SPOTS IN THE DRAFT to 1st overall.Maybe this trade makes sense.... In Madden. But I'm pretty sure even the CPU in Madden is smart enough to realize this is one dumbass trade.

      Alright, what would you propose that Philly could trade (not using any picks beyond this year)?(Love the SN btw)

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1658

      Alright, what would you propose that Philly could trade (not using any picks beyond this year)?(Love the SN btw)

      Nothing.  There is no realistic trade scenario between the Bucs and the Eagles this year.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      Alright, what would you propose that Philly could trade (not using any picks beyond this year)?(Love the SN btw)

      Nothing.  There is no realistic trade scenario between the Bucs and the Eagles this year.

      Alright, assume for a moment we can get the 12th and 19th picks and Paul Kruger.Would you do that trade?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      Again, for those of you thinking we will net the same trade value that the Rams did for RG3, think again.

      And that's where you're wrong again.  I'm no big fan of either QB, that said, Winston is rated higher than RG3, and Mariota (for the Eagles), is too.  That said, any deal less than or equal to what the Redskins gave up is nowhere near enough.  The drop for the Bucs would be 19 picks, the drop for the Rams was 4.  Huge difference.  No less than 9 picks in the 1st 3 rounds is acceptable.  Period.

      I get it and it would be great if we can net anywhere near that, but that remains to be seen.Having RG3 flame out is I'm sure in the mix and a big reason why you don't hear of any team possibly trading up for Winston.Mariota is a special case in that he can be elite in the right system and doesn't have red flags outside of the system argument.Kelly has stated multiple times and made moves (Bluffs?) to his intention to ride it out without Mariota.It honestly may come down to the action of drafting Mariota, calling them up and make the trade at that point.Bottom line, this team needs a RDE, G, RT/LT.  Those are not wants.  Those are necessary to field a competent team.However we get them, great.

      I've mentioned this before, like you, I'm no big fan of either QB.  That said, I'd rather the Bucs draft one of them and take a shot, than them trading down for less than quality value.  If they don't get a "King's Ransom" for the #1 pick (to the Eagles), or a reasonable deal to drop to #6 for example, then they should take one of the 2 QB's.

      Well as I said, it seems Kelly is playing hardball.We may have to draft him and have a quick chat about draft value and go over Bradford's injury history again with Chip as a reminder.There is no doubt Kelly wants Mariota on his squad, now it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot.My intention with this thread is to highlight a player that can help this team and be used as part of a reasonable compensation package.OL would be great as well, but I doubt Kelly is too excited about the prospect of having a sketchy line with his new Rookie QB.Future picks are great for the franchise, not so much for the current coaches which is why I doubt they are too excited about that prospect unless they are conditional extras.

      In the end, Kelly can't "play hardball" as you put it because the Bucs hold 100% of the leverage.  They're holding all the cards.  It's quite simple really.  The Bucs say what they want and the Eagles/Kelly will have to pay.  There's no bargaining, there's no back and forth... it's what the Bucs want or nothing.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1862

      Alright, what would you propose that Philly could trade (not using any picks beyond this year)?(Love the SN btw)

      Nothing.  There is no realistic trade scenario between the Bucs and the Eagles this year.

      Alright, assume for a moment we can get the 12th and 19th picks and Paul Kruger.Would you do that trade?

      Fuck no. Just stop.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      Again, for those of you thinking we will net the same trade value that the Rams did for RG3, think again.

      And that's where you're wrong again.  I'm no big fan of either QB, that said, Winston is rated higher than RG3, and Mariota (for the Eagles), is too.  That said, any deal less than or equal to what the Redskins gave up is nowhere near enough.  The drop for the Bucs would be 19 picks, the drop for the Rams was 4.  Huge difference.  No less than 9 picks in the 1st 3 rounds is acceptable.  Period.

      I get it and it would be great if we can net anywhere near that, but that remains to be seen.Having RG3 flame out is I'm sure in the mix and a big reason why you don't hear of any team possibly trading up for Winston.Mariota is a special case in that he can be elite in the right system and doesn't have red flags outside of the system argument.Kelly has stated multiple times and made moves (Bluffs?) to his intention to ride it out without Mariota.It honestly may come down to the action of drafting Mariota, calling them up and make the trade at that point.Bottom line, this team needs a RDE, G, RT/LT.  Those are not wants.  Those are necessary to field a competent team.However we get them, great.

      I've mentioned this before, like you, I'm no big fan of either QB.  That said, I'd rather the Bucs draft one of them and take a shot, than them trading down for less than quality value.  If they don't get a "King's Ransom" for the #1 pick (to the Eagles), or a reasonable deal to drop to #6 for example, then they should take one of the 2 QB's.

      Well as I said, it seems Kelly is playing hardball.We may have to draft him and have a quick chat about draft value and go over Bradford's injury history again with Chip as a reminder.There is no doubt Kelly wants Mariota on his squad, now it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot.My intention with this thread is to highlight a player that can help this team and be used as part of a reasonable compensation package.OL would be great as well, but I doubt Kelly is too excited about the prospect of having a sketchy line with his new Rookie QB.Future picks are great for the franchise, not so much for the current coaches which is why I doubt they are too excited about that prospect unless they are conditional extras.

      In the end, Kelly can't "play hardball" as you put it because the Bucs hold 100% of the leverage.  They're holding all the cards.  It's quite simple really.  The Bucs say what they want and the Eagles/Kelly will have to pay.  There's no bargaining, there's no back and forth... it's what the Bucs want or nothing.

      LOLThat's quite the tactic.  I doubt Kelly would give us whatever we are asking.  Too steep and he'll walk into the season with Bradford and call it a day.I don't think there is a player on his roster that is off limits though.Evan Mathis would sweeten the deal, but I think we can get by with a high draft pick to fill in.  Good value for guards in the draft.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      Alright, what would you propose that Philly could trade (not using any picks beyond this year)?(Love the SN btw)

      Nothing.  There is no realistic trade scenario between the Bucs and the Eagles this year.

      Alright, assume for a moment we can get the 12th and 19th picks and Paul Kruger.Would you do that trade?

      (censored) no. Just stop.

      This is a discussion board.  Discuss, or GTFO.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1862

      Again, for those of you thinking we will net the same trade value that the Rams did for RG3, think again.

      And that's where you're wrong again.  I'm no big fan of either QB, that said, Winston is rated higher than RG3, and Mariota (for the Eagles), is too.  That said, any deal less than or equal to what the Redskins gave up is nowhere near enough.  The drop for the Bucs would be 19 picks, the drop for the Rams was 4.  Huge difference.  No less than 9 picks in the 1st 3 rounds is acceptable.  Period.

      I get it and it would be great if we can net anywhere near that, but that remains to be seen.Having RG3 flame out is I'm sure in the mix and a big reason why you don't hear of any team possibly trading up for Winston.Mariota is a special case in that he can be elite in the right system and doesn't have red flags outside of the system argument.Kelly has stated multiple times and made moves (Bluffs?) to his intention to ride it out without Mariota.It honestly may come down to the action of drafting Mariota, calling them up and make the trade at that point.Bottom line, this team needs a RDE, G, RT/LT.  Those are not wants.  Those are necessary to field a competent team.However we get them, great.

      I've mentioned this before, like you, I'm no big fan of either QB.  That said, I'd rather the Bucs draft one of them and take a shot, than them trading down for less than quality value.  If they don't get a "King's Ransom" for the #1 pick (to the Eagles), or a reasonable deal to drop to #6 for example, then they should take one of the 2 QB's.

      Well as I said, it seems Kelly is playing hardball.We may have to draft him and have a quick chat about draft value and go over Bradford's injury history again with Chip as a reminder.There is no doubt Kelly wants Mariota on his squad, now it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot.My intention with this thread is to highlight a player that can help this team and be used as part of a reasonable compensation package.OL would be great as well, but I doubt Kelly is too excited about the prospect of having a sketchy line with his new Rookie QB.Future picks are great for the franchise, not so much for the current coaches which is why I doubt they are too excited about that prospect unless they are conditional extras.

      In the end, Kelly can't "play hardball" as you put it because the Bucs hold 100% of the leverage.  They're holding all the cards.  It's quite simple really.  The Bucs say what they want and the Eagles/Kelly will have to pay.  There's no bargaining, there's no back and forth... it's what the Bucs want or nothing.

      LOLThat's quite the tactic.  I doubt Kelly would give us whatever we are asking.  Too steep and he'll walk into the season with Bradford and call it a day.I don't think there is a player on his roster that is off limits though.Evan Mathis would sweeten the deal, but I think we can get by with a high draft pick to fill in.  Good value for guards in the draft.

      There is no situation where a 33 year old guard sweetens a deal.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      Again, for those of you thinking we will net the same trade value that the Rams did for RG3, think again.

      And that's where you're wrong again.  I'm no big fan of either QB, that said, Winston is rated higher than RG3, and Mariota (for the Eagles), is too.  That said, any deal less than or equal to what the Redskins gave up is nowhere near enough.  The drop for the Bucs would be 19 picks, the drop for the Rams was 4.  Huge difference.  No less than 9 picks in the 1st 3 rounds is acceptable.  Period.

      I get it and it would be great if we can net anywhere near that, but that remains to be seen.Having RG3 flame out is I'm sure in the mix and a big reason why you don't hear of any team possibly trading up for Winston.Mariota is a special case in that he can be elite in the right system and doesn't have red flags outside of the system argument.Kelly has stated multiple times and made moves (Bluffs?) to his intention to ride it out without Mariota.It honestly may come down to the action of drafting Mariota, calling them up and make the trade at that point.Bottom line, this team needs a RDE, G, RT/LT.  Those are not wants.  Those are necessary to field a competent team.However we get them, great.

      I've mentioned this before, like you, I'm no big fan of either QB.  That said, I'd rather the Bucs draft one of them and take a shot, than them trading down for less than quality value.  If they don't get a "King's Ransom" for the #1 pick (to the Eagles), or a reasonable deal to drop to #6 for example, then they should take one of the 2 QB's.

      Well as I said, it seems Kelly is playing hardball.We may have to draft him and have a quick chat about draft value and go over Bradford's injury history again with Chip as a reminder.There is no doubt Kelly wants Mariota on his squad, now it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot.My intention with this thread is to highlight a player that can help this team and be used as part of a reasonable compensation package.OL would be great as well, but I doubt Kelly is too excited about the prospect of having a sketchy line with his new Rookie QB.Future picks are great for the franchise, not so much for the current coaches which is why I doubt they are too excited about that prospect unless they are conditional extras.

      In the end, Kelly can't "play hardball" as you put it because the Bucs hold 100% of the leverage.  They're holding all the cards.  It's quite simple really.  The Bucs say what they want and the Eagles/Kelly will have to pay.  There's no bargaining, there's no back and forth... it's what the Bucs want or nothing.

      LOLThat's quite the tactic.  I doubt Kelly would give us whatever we are asking.  Too steep and he'll walk into the season with Bradford and call it a day.I don't think there is a player on his roster that is off limits though.Evan Mathis would sweeten the deal, but I think we can get by with a high draft pick to fill in.  Good value for guards in the draft.

      There is no situation where a 33 year old guard sweetens a deal.

      Tell that to Lovie who traded a talented young TE and a 4th rounder at the last minute for an over the hill guard.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 312

      lmao yeah because all the good pass rushers get drafted around 20…I echo what everyone else has already said that your compensation values are WAYYY off, but that you have a great sig.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3169

      LOLThat's quite the tactic.  I doubt Kelly would give us whatever we are asking.  Too steep and he'll walk into the season with Bradford and call it a day.I don't think there is a player on his roster that is off limits though.Evan Mathis would sweeten the deal, but I think we can get by with a high draft pick to fill in.  Good value for guards in the draft.

      Who care's what Kelly thinks.  The Bucs don't have to trade the pick.  Either he gives the Bucs what they want or someone else will draft Mariota.  It really is that simple.  No matter who Kelly wants do deal with, that's the situation.  He's too far down the draft to have any leverage.  He needs to get into the top 4 or he's not getting Mariota.  The Redskins are not going to gift wrap a franchise QB to their division rival.  So the only options Kelly has is with Tampa, Tennessee, Jacksonville, and Oakland.  Last I checked, there are no teams willing to drop 16-19 spots in the draft unless they're getting exactly what they want.  As I said, Kelly and the Eagles have no leverage what-so-ever, nor do they have a deep and plentiful talent pool.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1550

      I've seen and heard all the banter back and fourth on both of the QB's and honestly I'm not sold on either.I think both have big questionmarks going forward in this league (especially on this team) and we have too many holes to fill to be competitive.I'd entertain a very friendly trade for a team that could use the services of a QB they highly covet without breaking the bank.We give up:1st overall pickEagles give up:20th overall pickSam BradfordConnor BarwinNow some of you may be saying why would we want Bradford?  And/or "this trade sucks, I want a FRANCHISE QB!"Keep in mind, neither one of these QB's is a sure thing.  Leftwich err Winston may not make it on the field, much less off of it.  He has a slow windup and a tendency to throw into coverage.  This will lead to a lot of interceptions.  Nevermind the off-field problems which could ruin his career.  And with all of the scrutiny of the NFL lately, he will be on a VERY short leash.  Not a good mix for Tampa.Mariota may end up a HOF.  But he would need a coaching staff in place that would help to groom him.  He certainly isn't ready now unless he's plugged into a system he's familiar with.  Everything else about the kid says he should have success.  He has the right attitude, smarts, decent arm and a quick release.  This is why a team like the Eagles would do this deal.Now for why we would do the deal: We have a desperate need for a pass rusher and OL help.  There are some potential guys in the draft, but hardly any Simeon Rice or Joe Thomas class guys.  Without pressure, Lovie's system does not work.  Period. Connor Barwin had 14.5 sacks last year & 62.5 pass disruptions.  He's GREAT in the community.  He's a young 6-4 264 3-4 LB that will make a perfect 4-3 RDE playing next to McCoy.http://media.philadelphiaeagles.com/media/151409/barwin-connor.pdfBradford IMO can be a good-great QB or he can be used in a trade.In the end, we get a starting calibre RDE ready to play day 1we get a 20pick which should translate to a starting calibre LT/RT and either a starting QB or a starting LG.RDEQB/LT/G/C/RBLT/G/C/RBI'd say that is a pretty good haul for improving our ball club at the end of the 1st round and leaves us open to draft BPA in the rest of the draft.What say you?

      CAzb4jdW8AAQ0Wl.jpg

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Again, for those of you thinking we will net the same trade value that the Rams did for RG3, think again.

      And that's where you're wrong again.  I'm no big fan of either QB, that said, Winston is rated higher than RG3, and Mariota (for the Eagles), is too.  That said, any deal less than or equal to what the Redskins gave up is nowhere near enough.  The drop for the Bucs would be 19 picks, the drop for the Rams was 4.  Huge difference.  No less than 9 picks in the 1st 3 rounds is acceptable.  Period.

      I get it and it would be great if we can net anywhere near that, but that remains to be seen.Having RG3 flame out is I'm sure in the mix and a big reason why you don't hear of any team possibly trading up for Winston.Mariota is a special case in that he can be elite in the right system and doesn't have red flags outside of the system argument.Kelly has stated multiple times and made moves (Bluffs?) to his intention to ride it out without Mariota.It honestly may come down to the action of drafting Mariota, calling them up and make the trade at that point.Bottom line, this team needs a RDE, G, RT/LT.  Those are not wants.  Those are necessary to field a competent team.However we get them, great.

      I've mentioned this before, like you, I'm no big fan of either QB.  That said, I'd rather the Bucs draft one of them and take a shot, than them trading down for less than quality value.  If they don't get a "King's Ransom" for the #1 pick (to the Eagles), or a reasonable deal to drop to #6 for example, then they should take one of the 2 QB's.

      Well as I said, it seems Kelly is playing hardball.We may have to draft him and have a quick chat about draft value and go over Bradford's injury history again with Chip as a reminder.There is no doubt Kelly wants Mariota on his squad, now it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot.My intention with this thread is to highlight a player that can help this team and be used as part of a reasonable compensation package.OL would be great as well, but I doubt Kelly is too excited about the prospect of having a sketchy line with his new Rookie QB.Future picks are great for the franchise, not so much for the current coaches which is why I doubt they are too excited about that prospect unless they are conditional extras.

      In the end, Kelly can't "play hardball" as you put it because the Bucs hold 100% of the leverage.  They're holding all the cards.  It's quite simple really.  The Bucs say what they want and the Eagles/Kelly will have to pay.  There's no bargaining, there's no back and forth... it's what the Bucs want or nothing.

      LOLThat's quite the tactic.  I doubt Kelly would give us whatever we are asking.  Too steep and he'll walk into the season with Bradford and call it a day.I don't think there is a player on his roster that is off limits though.Evan Mathis would sweeten the deal, but I think we can get by with a high draft pick to fill in.  Good value for guards in the draft.

      There is no situation where a 33 year old guard sweetens a deal.

      It's obvious this clown is an eagles fan. He wants us to take throw aways that Philly wouldn't mind losing like Bradford, Barwin, and Mathis... no mention of young talent like Cox, Lane Johnson, or a boatload of future picks. I'm glad no GM is dumb enough to do something like thatGTFOH eagles fan.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      Thats basically taking the Eagles trash for our chance at a franchise QB. I think I would fight Lovie Smith and Licht in the parking lot at OBP if they did that. I'll take that assault charge.

      Imagine being the franchise that just gave Philly their franchise QB because they wanted to try an revive a QB with 2 ACL tears behind the previous season's worst o-line. NFL Films would make documentaries about how bad of a trade that was. I wouldn't be able to fight Lovie or Licht so much as just cry aggressively in their direction.

      I read the OP earlier and immediately ducked out.  Glad I came back for this.  Bravo!Anything else of similar quality in the next 3 pages I should continue on for?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 898

      There’s so much wrong with this trade proposal.  Compensation is the first glaring issue.  In 2012 the Redskins traded 3 first round picks and a 2nd to move up from #6 to #2.  For simplicity sakes let’s call Winston and Mariota equal prospects to RG3.  The Bucs would be moving from #1 to #20 and therefore would have very little chance of landing a blue chip player, perhaps with any of their picks because the Eagles have been a winning team recently.  So there would have to be 4 first rounders to even start a conversation.  A few of the ridiculous proposals have included a bunch of Eagles players in the deals, this should stop.  High draft picks have so much more value than veteran players who are now onto pricey 2nd contracts.  Taking on the suggested Bradford and Barwin contracts would take us from having around 30 mil in cap space to 10 mil as they are pretty much a perfect 20 mil between.  That's basically Lavonte's deal and now we're fucked.  We would gain an unproven 27 year old qb who is about to become a UFA and 28 year old pass rusher, who may start to decline in a year or two.  In other trades ppl have mentioned Evan Mathis… WTF????  He's the same age as Mankins, we do not need anymore old, over-the-hill players unless they are being paid peanuts.  No trade down, it's not happening. 

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      I like the OP’s trade proposal, but we should sweeten the deal!Give them our #1Give them McCoy, David, and EvansGive them a conditional pick in 2016, '17, '18Give them a Shelby Cobra for each of their coaching staffGive them a condo in Siesta KeyGive them a Soviet-made ICBMGive them the keys to the city of TampaGive them the complete DVD collection of Married With ChildrenWe receive:1 of Bradford's old ACLsAnd a 6th round pick in 1997

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 698

      Again, for those of you thinking we will net the same trade value that the Rams did for RG3, think again.

      And that's where you're wrong again.  I'm no big fan of either QB, that said, Winston is rated higher than RG3, and Mariota (for the Eagles), is too.  That said, any deal less than or equal to what the Redskins gave up is nowhere near enough.  The drop for the Bucs would be 19 picks, the drop for the Rams was 4.  Huge difference.  No less than 9 picks in the 1st 3 rounds is acceptable.  Period.

      I get it and it would be great if we can net anywhere near that, but that remains to be seen.Having RG3 flame out is I'm sure in the mix and a big reason why you don't hear of any team possibly trading up for Winston.Mariota is a special case in that he can be elite in the right system and doesn't have red flags outside of the system argument.Kelly has stated multiple times and made moves (Bluffs?) to his intention to ride it out without Mariota.It honestly may come down to the action of drafting Mariota, calling them up and make the trade at that point.Bottom line, this team needs a RDE, G, RT/LT.  Those are not wants.  Those are necessary to field a competent team.However we get them, great.

      I've mentioned this before, like you, I'm no big fan of either QB.  That said, I'd rather the Bucs draft one of them and take a shot, than them trading down for less than quality value.  If they don't get a "King's Ransom" for the #1 pick (to the Eagles), or a reasonable deal to drop to #6 for example, then they should take one of the 2 QB's.

      Well as I said, it seems Kelly is playing hardball.We may have to draft him and have a quick chat about draft value and go over Bradford's injury history again with Chip as a reminder.There is no doubt Kelly wants Mariota on his squad, now it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot.My intention with this thread is to highlight a player that can help this team and be used as part of a reasonable compensation package.OL would be great as well, but I doubt Kelly is too excited about the prospect of having a sketchy line with his new Rookie QB.Future picks are great for the franchise, not so much for the current coaches which is why I doubt they are too excited about that prospect unless they are conditional extras.

      In the end, Kelly can't "play hardball" as you put it because the Bucs hold 100% of the leverage.  They're holding all the cards.  It's quite simple really.  The Bucs say what they want and the Eagles/Kelly will have to pay.  There's no bargaining, there's no back and forth... it's what the Bucs want or nothing.

      LOLThat's quite the tactic.  I doubt Kelly would give us whatever we are asking.  Too steep and he'll walk into the season with Bradford and call it a day.I don't think there is a player on his roster that is off limits though.Evan Mathis would sweeten the deal, but I think we can get by with a high draft pick to fill in.  Good value for guards in the draft.

      There is no situation where a 33 year old guard sweetens a deal.

      Tell that to Lovie who traded a talented young TE and a 4th rounder at the last minute for an over the hill guard.

      The talented TE you speak of did not start one game for the Patriots last year. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/16285/tim-wright So, after the DRAFT (AS-J) and FA (Myers) last year he wasn't an option to stay here. Wright doesn't block well enough to take even Stockers spot on the roster last year. Now, at the end when we had all of the injuries you could say it would be nice to have him sitting there. But, then he wouldn't have played all the games during that time also. And maybe, would have put up similar stats on the receiving side or maybe not?

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 698

      Again, for those of you thinking we will net the same trade value that the Rams did for RG3, think again.

      And that's where you're wrong again.  I'm no big fan of either QB, that said, Winston is rated higher than RG3, and Mariota (for the Eagles), is too.  That said, any deal less than or equal to what the Redskins gave up is nowhere near enough.  The drop for the Bucs would be 19 picks, the drop for the Rams was 4.  Huge difference.  No less than 9 picks in the 1st 3 rounds is acceptable.  Period.

      I get it and it would be great if we can net anywhere near that, but that remains to be seen.Having RG3 flame out is I'm sure in the mix and a big reason why you don't hear of any team possibly trading up for Winston.Mariota is a special case in that he can be elite in the right system and doesn't have red flags outside of the system argument.Kelly has stated multiple times and made moves (Bluffs?) to his intention to ride it out without Mariota.It honestly may come down to the action of drafting Mariota, calling them up and make the trade at that point.Bottom line, this team needs a RDE, G, RT/LT.  Those are not wants.  Those are necessary to field a competent team.However we get them, great.

      I've mentioned this before, like you, I'm no big fan of either QB.  That said, I'd rather the Bucs draft one of them and take a shot, than them trading down for less than quality value.  If they don't get a "King's Ransom" for the #1 pick (to the Eagles), or a reasonable deal to drop to #6 for example, then they should take one of the 2 QB's.

      Well as I said, it seems Kelly is playing hardball.We may have to draft him and have a quick chat about draft value and go over Bradford's injury history again with Chip as a reminder.There is no doubt Kelly wants Mariota on his squad, now it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot.My intention with this thread is to highlight a player that can help this team and be used as part of a reasonable compensation package.OL would be great as well, but I doubt Kelly is too excited about the prospect of having a sketchy line with his new Rookie QB.Future picks are great for the franchise, not so much for the current coaches which is why I doubt they are too excited about that prospect unless they are conditional extras.

      In the end, Kelly can't "play hardball" as you put it because the Bucs hold 100% of the leverage.  They're holding all the cards.  It's quite simple really.  The Bucs say what they want and the Eagles/Kelly will have to pay.  There's no bargaining, there's no back and forth... it's what the Bucs want or nothing.

      LOLThat's quite the tactic.  I doubt Kelly would give us whatever we are asking.  Too steep and he'll walk into the season with Bradford and call it a day.

      This would be ideal for every team in the NFC.Bradford is good when he has time. But, he has not proven on any consistent basis he can stay on the field. He would get DESTROYED behind our current OLine. And would walk away in 2016. He is not worth a 1st round pick and does not have that VALUE behind his career.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 698

      Redskins traded six picks to acquire with the second overall pick of the 2012 draft to get RG3.It would take at least Redskins Rams trade just to start for the Eagles to move up to #1 from #20 plus 2 more mid level picks (3's).And Philly has traded most of their player assets that could have been intriguing to say the least.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1571

      OP I am firmly in the trade down camp, but I do believe your proposal is too light on compensation for us.  Personally, I would rather not trade down that far.  I would like to see us trade down 3-7 spots, pick up some picks, and still be in range to get a high calibre pick like Fowler or Scherff.  I would not be completely opposed to trading down with the Iggles, but the deal would have to be crazy.  I like Barwin and would take him in place of one of the MANY picks they would have to offer.  I think Glennon is a better QB than Bradford so I have no interest in Bradford.I understand your point about having to make the deal appealing to them, but I disagree.  We don't have to trade.  The idea of trading down is to aquire value from a team that has fallen in love with a certain player.  If we were going to trade down from 1 to 20 it would take a lot of value.  For that drop down it would require future picks- something like 3 firsts, 3 seconds, and 3 thirds.If we aren't sold on one of the QBs (which I'm not) I think we would be better served just drafting our favorite passrusher first and rolling with Glennon than trading the pick for a value loss.  I believe our team lacks overall talent and would benefit from quantity over quality right now, but the quantity would need to be pretty substantial.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 965

      You're right.  There may be a ton of interest behind the scenes.  Who knows.Bottom line though, neither one of these guys is "the guy".We should get what we can.

      That is YOUR opinion, and luckily you don't work for the Bucs.  Obviously 98% of analysts and scouts disagree with you.  Did you really think you were going to convince anyone this trade proposal is a good idea, or are you just trolling?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Redskins traded six picks to acquire with the second overall pick of the 2012 draft to get RG3.It would take at least Redskins Rams trade just to start for the Eagles to move up to #1 from #20 plus 2 more mid level picks (3's).And Philly has traded most of their player assets that could have been intriguing to say the least.

      it took a first and 4th to get revis, and we sent him packing for nothing.  The past don’t matter.

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