QB coach on turnovers: “We try everything”

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  • #1235717
    tog
    Participant

    They’re starting to flee the ship. I wonder if this is Arians sanctioned way to start prepping the fan base for jettisoning Winston.

    Christensen:

    “We obviously haven’t found the right answer but we try everything, you know. It’s kind of, I feel like we’re rephrasing it in a different way, looking at it from a different angle every single week. We do different things.

    That’s a hard teach, just because of how they are wired. It’s hard to just give up on a play. It’s a skill that has to be learned. We should be learning it now. It’s the fifth year. We’re not a rookie any more. And slowly but surely I think he’s got better on the protection thing and not taking the sacks and just being able to throw the thing out of bounds.”

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/buccaneers-quarterbacks-coach-on-jameis-winston-turnovers-we-try-everything-but-the-problem-isnt-fixed/

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    #1235749
    Greattimes
    Participant

    It is the centers fault. If the center didn’t hike the ball to the QB, the QB would not have any interceptions or fumbles. (Yeah, watching the Bucs will make you go crazy!)

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    #1235757
    Hockey Duckie
    Participant

    Why Arians is trying to re-create the wheel when Koetter already figured it out.

    2018 Winston Stats

    • Before Benching:  Games = 4, Comp % = 64.9, TD = 6, INT = 10, Sacks = 13
    • Before Benching Rates:  TDs = 1.5, INTs = 2.5, Sacks = 3.25
    • Before Benching Multiple INT games = 4

    ======

    • AFTER Benching:  Games = 7, Comp % = 64.3, TD = 13, INT = 4, Sacks = 14
    • AFTER Benching Rates:  TDs = 1.86, INTs = 0.57, Sacks = 2.0
    • AFTER Benching Multiple INT games = 0

    Koetter made Winston figure it out.  The problem today is Arians’ MO of “No risk it, no biscuit.”  Arians thought he was a superior coach to Koetter, especially when it comes to QB Winston.

    Now, the coaches are at a loss and blaming “wiring of a QB”.  This would fly if Koetter didn’t prove he finally fixed Winston’s turnover problems.  Koetter did something no one else did to Winston – bench him for bad play, which includes being a turnover machine.

    Maybe this coaching staff should ask Koetter how he did it b/c this coaching staff doesn’t have an answer.

     

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    #1235775
    Butters
    Participant

    Uh oh when Licht sees this Christenden is going to have to walk the plank.

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    #1235835
    The Anti-Java
    Participant

    I am hoping they pull the trigger after the season. To think #3 is going to turn into Brady all a sudden is crazy. Hell, I would settle for him turning into Alex Smith.
    But its looking like they will try to keep him around with some kind of low ball deal.
    There are several good options out there, they will have to make the decision by March, then the draft is in April. So they could draft a QB. Or sign a free agent QB like Teddy.
    I cant see Arians signing Kap. He has said, Kap is a 32 year old QB with a bad shoulder. So not feeling the love there.
    He loves Teddy though. But there will be a lot of competition for him, like Chicago for one. Maybe Carolina.

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    #1235990
    Bootz2004
    Blocked

    I have to say after 5 years I’m just about off the Jameis Winston train. This is getting ridiculous. Yes, I understand everything isn’t his fault. I get it. OJ Howard is exactly the useless player I thought he’d be coming out of Bama and has been responsible for his share of turnovers. But come on man. You cannot turn the ball over at that rate. We don’t see other QBs turn the ball over that much. He has to be the unluckiest QB in the world to have so many of his throws result in turnovers.

     

    Fumbles I don’t really care about. You won’t find a QB dead or alive who’s great at covering the ball up when he’s hit. But it’s just way too many interceptions.

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    #1235993
    Bootz2004
    Blocked

    I am hoping they pull the trigger after the season. To think #3 is going to turn into Brady all a sudden is crazy. Hell, I would settle for him turning into Alex Smith.

    But its looking like they will try to keep him around with some kind of low ball deal.

    There are several good options out there, they will have to make the decision by March, then the draft is in April. So they could draft a QB. Or sign a free agent QB like Teddy.

    I cant see Arians signing Kap. He has said, Kap is a 32 year old QB with a bad shoulder. So not feeling the love there.

    He loves Teddy though. But there will be a lot of competition for him, like Chicago for one. Maybe Carolina.

    Teddy likely goes to a team that’s closer to contention. Jameis is definitely a problem but anyone who believes we’re a QB away from being even a .500 team is fooling themselves and themselves alone. This team has major issues across the board.

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    #1236020
    tog
    Participant

    There’s obviously some truth to Bootz’s point (forum ate first post, for those unaware you can usually go “back” in your browser and recover the post).

    But you’re definitely downplaying the amount that a QB can hold onto the ball. It was an interesting question though – what’s the relationship between QB hits and fumbles?

    So I very quickly whipped up a table. A couple caveats, to get a proper idea you’d have to compare this across years. Dak Prescott has been top 5 in QB hits the last couple years, but had 12 fumbles last year and 2 this year. Second, not all these fumbles are in the pocket. Lamar Jackson has the highest fumble-hit ratio, but I think all of his fumbles occurred while rushing.

    What do we see?

    There definitely is a pretty big difference. Rodgers has been hit 27 times but only fumbled 2. Prescott is even better. Patrick Mahomes has had a VERY high QB hit rate (led NFL last year) and been very low in fumbles. Ryan, Fitz, and Wilson are all the same.

    Some guys who are low in QB hits skew the numbers with high fumbles. But Josh Allen, Daniel Jones, Jared Goff and Winston seem to be absolutely fumbling too much. Just under a 1/3rd of their QB hits result in a fumble.

    P.S. Sacks are first a QB stat. Look at Mahomes performance last two years and yet he was top last year, and still very high this year, in pressures/hits. Prescott, behind that great OL, has also been top 5 in hits.

    Fumble-Hit Ratio

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    #1236063
    Bootz2004
    Blocked

    Let me explain what I mean.

    When you compare the numbers to skills positions, QBs still fumble a ton. If a RB gets 25 touches a game and scores 1 TD that means he’s likely getting hit 24 times. If that guy fumbles just twice let’s say, he’s like not playing much because of ball security issues.

     

    Now compare a QB. Let’s take Lamar Jackson. According to the chart, Jackson has somehow only been hit 6 times yet has fumbled 4 of those 6 times. If a RB does that in a game he’s cut next week. QBs aren’t natural ball handlers and they don’t secure the ball in the same way skills position guys do. They also get blindsided, have balls swiped out of their hands on the edge, have the ball ripped away.

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    #1236081
    The Anomaly
    Participant

    Why Arians is trying to re-create the wheel when Koetter already figured it out.

    2018 Winston Stats

    • Before Benching: Games = 4, Comp % = 64.9, TD = 6, INT = 10, Sacks = 13
    • Before Benching Rates: TDs = 1.5, INTs = 2.5, Sacks = 3.25
    • Before Benching Multiple INT games = 4

    ======

    • AFTER Benching: Games = 7, Comp % = 64.3, TD = 13, INT = 4, Sacks = 14
    • AFTER Benching Rates: TDs = 1.86, INTs = 0.57, Sacks = 2.0
    • AFTER Benching Multiple INT games = 0

    Koetter made Winston figure it out. The problem today is Arians’ MO of “No risk it, no biscuit.” Arians thought he was a superior coach to Koetter, especially when it comes to QB Winston.

    Now, the coaches are at a loss and blaming “wiring of a QB”. This would fly if Koetter didn’t prove he finally fixed Winston’s turnover problems. Koetter did something no one else did to Winston – bench him for bad play, which includes being a turnover machine.

    Maybe this coaching staff should ask Koetter how he did it b/c this coaching staff doesn’t have an answer.

    The Winston after the benching was a neutered JW.  Worthless.  It’s just in his DNA.  That’s who he is and always been.  It’s too late now to try to fix.  It’s over.

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    #1236142
    Biggs3535
    Participant

    Now compare a QB. Let’s take Lamar Jackson. According to the chart, Jackson has somehow only been hit 6 times yet has fumbled 4 of those 6 times.

    You’re not analyzing the data correctly.  Those 6 QB Hits are while he’s in the pocket, while the 4 fumbles are not only relegated to the pocket.  Obviously, with 116 rushing attempts, Lamar Jackson has been “hit” more than six times while carrying the ball this season.

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    #1236175
    Mr. Shankley
    Participant

    This has been Winston’s problem

    “ THAT’S A HARD TEACH, JUST BECAUSE OF HOW THEY ARE WIRED.”

    He can do it. There are games where he has played the role of cautious distributor, but his real wiring always comes back to the front

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    #1236190
    BucBalla85
    Participant

    The way I see it is this team still needs to be built the proper way. Both of our lines suck and our qb turns the ball over too much. That is the makings of a team who needs to start over and build the team where it matters. Until those areas improve we arent going to make the playoffs or close to it. Might as well start over with people who know what they are doing. Lets build this thing right!!

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    #1236199
    BucFanFromATL
    Participant

    They tried everything except for Ryan Griffin lol

    Winston is what he is. He will always be turnover prone. It’s just his natural instincts. He is a high risk player… His on and off field decision making has shown us this time and time again over his college and professional career.

    He makes terrible judgment calls at the worst possible times. I wanted him to be our franchise guy so bad. I really wanted it to work. I just don’t see it. I’m over it. All the coaches pretty much try everything they can and it doesn’t work. He is what he is. Time to move on.

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