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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 333

      xTiTnJBnrMtuw0NBgk.gif1.  LiLo brought in failed FA’s, then ditched them and went back to what Licht was brought in to do.  Find FA’s at bargain deals that could help this team... and failed again. 2.  Licht was brought in to restructure the Bucs organization with the departures of Dominick and Hickey.  Some of the new draft picks aren't too bad.  Unfortunately the overall talent evaluation still sucks.3.  Tedford’s unexpected leave of the team was a bigger indictment of the coach than most want to admit.  4.  Bucs have re-signed their core home grown players (McCoy and David).Unfortunately they also signed a bunch of guys that suck and LVD hasn't looked the same since Lovie got here.5.  The 2015 Bucs are one of the youngest teams in all of football currently.  Yet the guys with NFL experience in Lovie's system are playing bottom of the barrel football.6.  Johnson and Collins are obvious dead money hits from LiLo’s mistake from last season.  More available cap money for Lovie to waste again on signngs like Jenkins, Jennings, Johnson, Carter, etc.7.  Doug Martin is the only noteworthy Bucs free agent the Bucs must mull over to re-sign this coming off season.  I don't think he re-signs here and if he does he will most likely downshift into Lovie-vacation-mode.9.  This team will become a lot younger real quick by next off season as the hand-picked vets have not lived up to expectations.  10.  On a final note...  I still don’t understand why Bucs players and coaches don’t understand how the Bucs defense works and why they aren't getting better. The most frustrating thing is the Bucs may have the trio they need on defense at RDE, UT, and WILL.  They still need to find a way to not be last in the league in points allowed.  Seriously though, Lovie brings in a half dozen FA's, trades a draft pick and a young talented TE for Mankins, announces Josh McCown as a starter the moment he's signed as a FA and people honestly thought he was "rebuilding"?Any rebuild going on here is unintentional and a fallback excuse for the absolutely HORRID play we saw last year and continue to see this year.  Especially defensively.Note to Lovie:  If you're "rebuilding", you play young guys over aging vets.  Jennings/Jenkins should not be starting over Verner/Banks.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1417

      xTiTnJBnrMtuw0NBgk.gif1.  LiLo brought in failed FA’s, then ditched them and went back to what Licht was brought in to do.  Find FA’s at bargain deals that could help this team... and failed again. Big time FAs were not good, but plenty of good talent added: Jack Smith, Howard, EDS, Conte, Wright, Verner, Gosder, Mankins (trade obvi) have all been solid contributors. Even though they aren't primetime, they're cheap (sans Mankins) and aren't hurting our club. 2.  Licht was brought in to restructure the Bucs organization with the departures of Dominick and Hickey.  Some of the new draft picks aren't too bad.  Unfortunately the overall talent evaluation still sucks.Drafts look extremely promising. 2014: Evans is certainly the crown jewel and, assuming he gets back on track, should be a fixture for years to come. ASJ and Sims have both flashed in their limited time. Barring them being injured their whole careers, I have no doubt they'll play big roles by the end of the season. Even Pamphile showed good things this week.2015: Winston will make or break this class but I think his arrow is pointing to the sky right now. Smith is growing every week and looked very solid last week. Marpet might be the best guard from this class. Kwon is likely to be the best MLB from this class. 3.  Tedford’s unexpected leave of the team was a bigger indictment of the coach than most want to admit.  Inside info for sure.4.  Bucs have re-signed their core home grown players (McCoy and David).Unfortunately they also signed a bunch of guys that suck and LVD hasn't looked the same since Lovie got here.Already said this in point 1. But LVD was very solid last week. I think Lovie and LVD are starting to get on the same page.5.  The 2015 Bucs are one of the youngest teams in all of football currently.  Yet the guys with NFL experience in Lovie's system are playing bottom of the barrel football.Agreed.6.  Johnson and Collins are obvious dead money hits from LiLo’s mistake from last season.  More available cap money for Lovie to waste again on signngs like Jenkins, Jennings, Johnson, Carter, etc.Or all of the other signings listed above. You've now spent 3 points arguing the same thing.7.  Doug Martin is the only noteworthy Bucs free agent the Bucs must mull over to re-sign this coming off season.  I don't think he re-signs here and if he does he will most likely downshift into Lovie-vacation-mode.Solid point. So  you don't think he resigns and if he does, you think he will then suck again. Glad you think that.9.  This team will become a lot younger real quick by next off season as the hand-picked vets have not lived up to expectations.  Good. I think they've proven they are able to draft solid ass talent.10.  On a final note...  I still don’t understand why Bucs players and coaches don’t understand how the Bucs defense works and why they aren't getting better. The most frustrating thing is the Bucs may have the trio they need on defense at RDE, UT, and WILL.  They still need to find a way to not be last in the league in points allowed.  We don't have even close to an RDE. We also need at least 1 great safety (Lynch is a borderline HOFer and DJax was more than solid. As to your question of why they aren't progressing. That is a real concern. I would guess it's because a lot of players are still changing. When the Bucs had a great D, they switch 1 or 2 positions a year. Just this year, we've had at least 6 new starters on defense (Kwon, Jack, Howard/Johnson, Jennings, Conte). Changing half your D each year isn't the best way for the players to gel.Seriously though, Lovie brings in a half dozen FA's, trades a draft pick and a young talented TE for Mankins, announces Josh McCown as a starter the moment he's signed as a FA and people honestly thought he was "rebuilding"?They tried it didnt work. Our team is still better now than it was in 2013.Any rebuild going on here is unintentional and a fallback excuse for the absolutely HORRID play we saw last year and continue to see this year.  Especially defensively.Note to Lovie:  If you're "rebuilding", you play young guys over aging vets.  Jennings/Jenkins should not be starting over Verner/Banks.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1250

      Like BucnCane said, the young talent that has been brought in by Lovie/Licht looks very promising. Winston, Sims, ASJ, Evans, Kwon, Jaq Smith, Donovan Smith, Marpet all look or have showed a lot of promise and I am excited for this team.I do agree with you that some of the Vets (Jennings/Mankins) have all played below average to bad and shouldn't be here next year.I think with more seasoning and a few more pieces (SAFETY/CB/ RDE, WR3, possibly RB) this team could take the next step and continue taking the next steps in the future. One step at a time we are a young team with a rookie QB so there will be plenty of ups and downs.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1658

      The 76ers experience is really pretty anomalous.  It’s pretty routine to mix in (substandard) vets in when rebuilding.  Which certainly does not excuse, for example, the whole “is our linebackers learning” thing we’re seeing this season.  But I don’t find his bringing in veterans and not going 100% with youth to be *inherently* problematic from a rebuilding perspective.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      1) Big time FAs were not good, but plenty of good talent added: Jack Smith, Howard, EDS, Conte, Wright, Verner, Gosder, Mankins (trade obvi) have all been solid contributors. Even though they aren't primetime, they're cheap (sans Mankins) and aren't hurting our club.2) Drafts look extremely promising. 2014: Evans is certainly the crown jewel and, assuming he gets back on track, should be a fixture for years to come. ASJ and Sims have both flashed in their limited time. Barring them being injured their whole careers, I have no doubt they'll play big roles by the end of the season. Even Pamphile showed good things this week.3) Inside info for sure.4) Already said this in point 1. But LVD was very solid last week. I think Lovie and LVD are starting to get on the same page.5) Agreed.6) Or all of the other signings listed above. You've now spent 3 points arguing the same thing.7) Solid point. So  you don't think he resigns and if he does, you think he will then suck again. Glad you think that.9) Good. I think they've proven they are able to draft solid ass talent.10) We don't have even close to an RDE. We also need at least 1 great safety (Lynch is a borderline HOFer and DJax was more than solid. As to your question of why they aren't progressing. That is a real concern. I would guess it's because a lot of players are still changing. When the Bucs had a great D, they switch 1 or 2 positions a year. Just this year, we've had at least 6 new starters on defense (Kwon, Jack, Howard/Johnson, Jennings, Conte). Changing half your D each year isn't the best way for the players to gel.

      1)2014Michael JohnsonAnthony CollinsAlterraun Verner - benched - should be startingEvan Dietrich-Smith - should be benchedClinton McDonald - okJosh McCownBrandon Myers - okMike Jenkins - should be benchedDane FletcherLarry EnglishMajor Wright - okLouis Murphy - okOniel CousinsTradesRishaw JohnsonLogan Mankins - should be benched2015Bruce Carter - benchedGosder Cherilus - okHenry Melton - okSterling Moore - benchedTony McDaniel - okChristopher Conte - okJoe Hawley - okDa'Quan BowersJorvorskie Lane - okTradesKyle BrindzaGeorge Johnson - benchedMike Evans, anyone remember Michael Clayton?Regarding drafts:2012Mark Barron, SS (Rams)Doug Martin, RBLavonte David, OLBNajee Goode, ILB 5 (Eagles)Keith Tandy, FS 6Michael Smith, RB 7 (Jets)2013Johnthan Banks, CB 2Mike Glennon, QB 3Akeem Spence, DT 4William Gholston, DE 4Steven Means, DE 5 (Ravens)Mike James, RB 62014Mike Evans, WR 1Austin Seferian-Jenkins, TE 2Charles Sims, RB 3Kevin Pamphile, LT 5Kadeem Edwards, G 5Robert Herron, WR 62015Jameis Winston, QB 1Donovan Smith, LT 2Ali Marpet, G 2Kwon Alexander, ILB 4Kenny Bell, WR 5Kaelin Clay, WR 6Joey Iosefa, FB 7Yeah, Schiano knew how to draft too.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1658

      Mike Evans, anyone remember Michael Clayton?

      Way too early to be making that comparison.

      Yeah, Schiano knew how to draft too.

      Just to be clear, that's sarcasm, right?  I assume it is, but it's sometimes hard to tell online.  :-)

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      Just to be clear, that's sarcasm, right?

      Not sarcasm.2012Mark Barron, SS (Rams) (16 pbu, 3 ints, 2 sacks, 1 FF)Doug Martin, RBLavonte David, OLBNajee Goode, ILB 5 (Eagles)Keith Tandy, FS 6Michael Smith, RB 7 (Jets)2013Johnthan Banks, CB 2Mike Glennon, QB 3Akeem Spence, DT 4William Gholston, DE 4Steven Means, DE 5 (Ravens)Mike James, RB 6That's a solid draft record.Mark Barron, SS (Rams) (16 pass breakups, 3 ints, 2 sacks, 1 FF while in Schiano's system his 1st two years)

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 235

      all of these points look eerily similar to what alldaway posted a little while ago.  what is your point here?https://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php/topic,1327407.0.htmlalldaway's thread that highlights all your points/asked and answered.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      I’m not even reading the posts anymore… (not sure why I even typed this...)

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      The Bucs have made some really bad decisions in free agency. That does not exclude the fact that they are rebuilding. This is not Schiano's team. If you haven't noticed, Lovie got rid of a bunch of those guys and brought in new players and drafted players to replace them. Anytime you get rid of 4-5 starting OL you are rebuilding. Schiano did real good letting Michael Bennett walk and wasting a first round pick on Revis. Yeah, thise were the good old days....smh.Chefo, or Mrs.Schiano I'm not sure which you prefer.....get over it. The scumbag Schiano is gone and he is not coaching in the NFL ever again.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      Anytime you get rid of 4-5 starting OL you are rebuilding...

      But Smith, 55, didn't sign up for a rebuilding gig. The Bucs have been aggressive in free agency, signing 12 players, including defensive end Michael Johnson, corner Alterraun Verner, tight end Brandon Myers and quarterback Josh McCown. They also dumped some pricey players, including offensive linemen Donald Penn and Davin Joseph and corner Derrelle Revis.The additions and subtractions gave the Bucs one of the best grades during the free-agency period. But the only report card that matters involves the scoreboard, and frankly, nobody has the patience for another 4-12 run of misery. Rebuilding is a potty-mouth word at One Buc Place."We thought it would be unfair to ask the fans to be patient," said Bucs general manager Jason Licht, another new guy in the mix. "We wanted to go out and sign as many good players as we could this year to help our football team be competitive and strive to win a championship. We want to do it as soon as we can. The fans deserve it."

    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      not a true rebuild until the glazer boys are gone.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      Mark Barron, SS (Rams) (16 pass breakups, 3 ints, 2 sacks, 1 FF while in Schiano's system his 1st two years)

      Mark Barron was/is one  of the worst safeties in coverage in the league. Dude constantly was out of position and was constantly burned. He also missed tackles too much. Passes defensed/Ints/sacks/FF...that's just 22 plays and it does nothing to show his ability in coverage, which was very poor. Also, don't play the "he should have been only used in the box" stuff. Safeties during pass plays still have coverage responsibilities no matter how far off the LOS they are. In 2015, most teams are going to have to have 2 safeties dropping back into deep coverage, regardless of where they are when the ball is snapped. To be a good safety in this league, you have to be able to cover. Barron couldn't. He was a huge bust.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 235

      I liked Barron when he came out, as he was drafted to shut down the likes of TE’s Graham, Olsen, and Gonzalez.Needless to say that shit did not happen.  He was good in run support (sometimes) but was just terrible in coverage and was routinely abused by the TE's he was brought in to shut down.  This was one pick where I actually agreed with java when we should have taken Keuchley. 

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      To be a good safety in this league, you have to be able to cover. Barron couldn't. He was a huge bust.

      You obviously don't know how his scheme is setup.It's like saying I don't care how good you are in coverage, if you're a MLB you need to be racking up TFLs!Or "I don't care how good you are rushing the passer, where's the run stuffs?!"It's simple minded.Some schemes call for players to excel in certain things and not others.As for his coverage abilities, 16 PBUs in his 1st 2 years is pretty damn good in my book.  I also remember him doing rather well in covering TE's (typically the safety's job)As a rookie and 2nd year player covering the best TE in the game, guess how many TD's Graham has vs Barron?0176 combined tackles his 1st 2 years and the kid was no slouch.  He brought it.  Blown assignment?  No way!  Not from a rookie!Nevermind what happened to him once Lovie got his hands on him.  Much like LVD, (and everyone else) Barron's play was nothing like it was under Schiano once Lovie got here.  Not a perfect scheme fit under Lovie?  Agreed.  That doesn't make him a bust.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1250

      To be a good safety in this league, you have to be able to cover. Barron couldn't. He was a huge bust.

      You obviously don't know how his scheme is setup.It's like saying I don't care how good you are in coverage, if you're a MLB you need to be racking up TFLs!Or "I don't care how good you are rushing the passer, where's the run stuffs?!"It's simple minded.Some schemes call for players to excel in certain things and not others.As for his coverage abilities, 16 PBUs in his 1st 2 years is pretty damn good in my book.  I also remember him doing rather well in covering TE's (typically the safety's job)As a rookie and 2nd year player covering the best TE in the game, guess how many TD's Graham has vs Barron?0176 combined tackles his 1st 2 years and the kid was no slouch.  He brought it.  Blown assignment?  No way!  Not from a rookie!Nevermind what happened to him once Lovie got his hands on him.  Much like LVD, (and everyone else) Barron's play was nothing like it was under Schiano once Lovie got here.  Not a perfect scheme fit under Lovie?  Agreed.  That doesn't make him a bust.

      Barron is a bust because of where he was drafted. If he was drafted in the 3rd-4th then it would be different.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      I liked Barron when he came out, as he was drafted to shut down the likes of TE's Graham, Olsen, and Gonzalez.Needless to say that (censored) did not happen.

      Damn, you're right.  Remember all those TD's those guys got on Barron?I mean I remember Graham lighting him up for __ TD's his rookie year hoping he wouldn't be a bust, but then the following year he lit him up for __ TD's again(!) and I remember thinking this **** isn't working.Nevermind the __ TD's he gave up to Gonzalez.Or the __ TD's he got burned on by Olsen....What a loser that guy was.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1419

      xTiTnJBnrMtuw0NBgk.gif1.  LiLo brought in failed FA’s, then ditched them and went back to what Licht was brought in to do.  Find FA’s at bargain deals that could help this team... and failed again. 2.  Licht was brought in to restructure the Bucs organization with the departures of Dominick and Hickey.  Some of the new draft picks aren't too bad.  Unfortunately the overall talent evaluation still sucks.3.  Tedford’s unexpected leave of the team was a bigger indictment of the coach than most want to admit.  4.  Bucs have re-signed their core home grown players (McCoy and David).Unfortunately they also signed a bunch of guys that suck and LVD hasn't looked the same since Lovie got here.5.  The 2015 Bucs are one of the youngest teams in all of football currently.  Yet the guys with NFL experience in Lovie's system are playing bottom of the barrel football.6.  Johnson and Collins are obvious dead money hits from LiLo’s mistake from last season.  More available cap money for Lovie to waste again on signngs like Jenkins, Jennings, Johnson, Carter, etc.7.  Doug Martin is the only noteworthy Bucs free agent the Bucs must mull over to re-sign this coming off season.  I don't think he re-signs here and if he does he will most likely downshift into Lovie-vacation-mode.9.  This team will become a lot younger real quick by next off season as the hand-picked vets have not lived up to expectations.  10.  On a final note...  I still don’t understand why Bucs players and coaches don’t understand how the Bucs defense works and why they aren't getting better. The most frustrating thing is the Bucs may have the trio they need on defense at RDE, UT, and WILL.  They still need to find a way to not be last in the league in points allowed.  Seriously though, Lovie brings in a half dozen FA's, trades a draft pick and a young talented TE for Mankins, announces Josh McCown as a starter the moment he's signed as a FA and people honestly thought he was "rebuilding"?Any rebuild going on here is unintentional and a fallback excuse for the absolutely HORRID play we saw last year and continue to see this year.  Especially defensively.Note to Lovie:  If you're "rebuilding", you play young guys over aging vets.  Jennings/Jenkins should not be starting over Verner/Banks.

      TL;DR

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1417

      Slow day at work so I’ll entertain.Schiano didn't draft well. That's one of the reasons he is gone. in 2 drafts he's produced 3 starters and 1 solid rotational player (Gholston).In 2 drafts Lovie has produced 6 starters and 1 solid rotational player (Sims).The other players are either cut or below avg rotational players at best (Tandy).Regarding FAs: If looking at your own damned list doesn't show you something good then you're missing the point. Did the Bucs FAs last year suck? Without a doubt. This year's crop is night and day different. A lot of solid players and backups, all for a fraction of the cost. They're learning and our team is transforming for the better. Schiano's team was transforming for the worse.Also you forgot to add Jack Smith and Howard to your list.Also, your idea of benched is misleading. Just because a guy is a rotational player doesn't mean he's not doing what he was brought here to do.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      Schiano didn’t draft well.  That’s one of the reasons he is gone.

      20121 Mark Barron, SS (Starter)2 Doug Martin, RB (Starter)2 Lavonte David, OLB (Starter)5 Najee Goode, ILB (Backup)6 Keith Tandy, FS (Backup/Starter)7 Michael Smith, RB20132 Johnthan Banks, CB (Starter)3 Mike Glennon, QB 3 (Backup/Starter under Schiano)4 Akeem Spence, DT 4 (Backup/Starter under Schiano)4 William Gholston, DE 4 (Backup/Starter)5 Steven Means, DE 56 Mike James, RB (PS averaged 4.9/carry under Schiano) 83% starting or contributing20141 Mike Evans, WR (Starter)2 Austin Seferian-Jenkins, TE (Starter)3 Charles Sims, RB (Backup)5 Kevin Pamphile, LT (Backup)5 Kadeem Edwards, G6 Robert Herron, WR20151 Jameis Winston, QB (Starter by Default)2 Donovan Smith, LT (Starter by Default)2 Ali Marpet, G (Starter by Default)4 Kwon Alexander, ILB (Starter)5 Kenny Bell, WR6 Kaelin Clay, WR7 Joey Iosefa, FB62% starting or contributing.Firing Schiano for poor drafts would be like hiring Lovie Smith for developing franchise QB's.

      Did the Bucs FAs last year suck? Without a doubt. This year's crop is night and day different.

      Not really.The guy that was suppose to start at MLB is benched.  The "DB help" hasn't helped.  The DL signings are OK, but certainly nothing to shout about.  Between Melton, McDaniel and George Johnson they all share 1 sack.Whoopdidoo.As for Tandy being an "average rotational player" take a look at the comp:Major Wright8 starts (2 pbu, 0 int, 0 FF)Bradley McDougald  10 starts (8 pbu, 2 int, 0 FF)Chris Conte  4 starts (2 pbu, 1 int, 2 FF)Keith Tandy 5 starts (3 pbu, 3 int, 1 FF)4 takeaways on 5 starts looks better than anything starting in front of him ...

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      To be a good safety in this league, you have to be able to cover. Barron couldn't. He was a huge bust.

      You obviously don't know how his scheme is setup.It's like saying I don't care how good you are in coverage, if you're a MLB you need to be racking up TFLs!Or "I don't care how good you are rushing the passer, where's the run stuffs?!"It's simple minded.Some schemes call for players to excel in certain things and not others.As for his coverage abilities, 16 PBUs in his 1st 2 years is pretty damn good in my book.  I also remember him doing rather well in covering TE's (typically the safety's job)As a rookie and 2nd year player covering the best TE in the game, guess how many TD's Graham has vs Barron?0176 combined tackles his 1st 2 years and the kid was no slouch.  He brought it.  Blown assignment?  No way!  Not from a rookie!Nevermind what happened to him once Lovie got his hands on him.  Much like LVD, (and everyone else) Barron's play was nothing like it was under Schiano once Lovie got here.  Not a perfect scheme fit under Lovie?  Agreed.  That doesn't make him a bust.

      This response is chopped full of bogus analogies that make zero sense, half truths, and just utter misstatements.Are you trying to say that Schiano's scheme fully alleviated Barron from coverage responsibilities? If so, that's absolute nonsense. He was in coverage nearly every pass play and was only "in the box" on about 1/4 of his defensive snaps. He was bad in m2m, he was bad in zone. Anyone who watched him play with both eyes open and a general understanding of the game could see that. Lol @ "how many TDs did he allow vs Graham....0!"Wrong. In the 2013 week 2 game vs the Saints, Barron vacated his zone which left Jimmy Graham WIDE THE F*CK OPEN for a 56 yard TD.Barron was terrible vs the pass under Schiano, he was terrible in coverage with Lovie, and he is terrible in coverage under Gregg Williams. Want to tout him as a badass tackler, fine. He is a light LB. He is a terrible safety though. Hell, he barely sees the field 50% of the time in STL.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      ...Lol @ "how many TDs did he allow vs Graham....0!"Wrong. In the 2013 week 2 game vs the Saints, Barron vacated his zone which left Jimmy Graham WIDE THE F*CK OPEN for a 56 yard TD.

      The Defense was called for Barron to read the RB.  Why?  No Clue.  barron_TD.jpgSurely you have many more examples of Barron being "horrible in coverage" and costing his team TD after TD ... the kid did start 32 games here from his rookie year on ...He did face the best trio of TEs in the league in Olsen, Gonzalez, and Graham afterall ...

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      xTiTnJBnrMtuw0NBgk.gif

      Why are you here? To talk football or be a whiney little  b!tch?Throwing around useless stats and giving advice like you're Vince Lombardi...You're more of a  troll than a fan...

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2697

      ...Lol @ "how many TDs did he allow vs Graham....0!"Wrong. In the 2013 week 2 game vs the Saints, Barron vacated his zone which left Jimmy Graham WIDE THE F*CK OPEN for a 56 yard TD.

      The Defense was called for Barron to read the RB.  Why?  No Clue.  barron_TD.jpgSurely you have many more examples of Barron being "horrible in coverage" and costing his team TD after TD ... the kid did start 32 games here from his rookie year on ...He did face the best trio of TEs in the league in Olsen, Gonzalez, and Graham afterall ...

      Barron missed his read (the TE) dumbazz...

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      Why are you here? To talk football or be a whiney little  b!tch?

      d42c0a6a3b86325073af6cf3978dad1a.jpgGet back to work, Mikal.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2697

      Why are you here? To talk football or be a whiney little  b!tch?

      d42c0a6a3b86325073af6cf3978dad1a.jpgGet back to work, Mikal.

      Thanks Joe....Keep posting those useless stats...

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      ...Lol @ "how many TDs did he allow vs Graham....0!"Wrong. In the 2013 week 2 game vs the Saints, Barron vacated his zone which left Jimmy Graham WIDE THE F*CK OPEN for a 56 yard TD.

      The Defense was called for Barron to read the RB.  Why?  No Clue.  barron_TD.jpgSurely you have many more examples of Barron being "horrible in coverage" and costing his team TD after TD ... the kid did start 32 games here from his rookie year on ...He did face the best trio of TEs in the league in Olsen, Gonzalez, and Graham afterall ...

      Barron missed his read (the TE) dumbazz...

      OHHH that's why he was LOOKING AT THE ****ING RB THE WHOLE TIME!Dumb mother****er.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2697

      ...Lol @ "how many TDs did he allow vs Graham....0!"Wrong. In the 2013 week 2 game vs the Saints, Barron vacated his zone which left Jimmy Graham WIDE THE F*CK OPEN for a 56 yard TD.

      The Defense was called for Barron to read the RB.  Why?  No Clue.  barron_TD.jpgSurely you have many more examples of Barron being "horrible in coverage" and costing his team TD after TD ... the kid did start 32 games here from his rookie year on ...He did face the best trio of TEs in the league in Olsen, Gonzalez, and Graham afterall ...

      Barron missed his read (the TE) dumbazz...

      OHHH that's why he was LOOKING AT THE ****ING RB THE WHOLE TIME!Dumb mother****er.

      Yep he was dumb...The "The Defense was called for Barron to read the RB."  comment was also

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      Yep he was dumb..

      Ok Mikal.Let's say you're right.  For whatever reason on that play even though Barron was supposed to be reading the TE, he was staring down the RB the whole time.  Perhaps his bling was outstanding.  WHERE THE **** ARE ALL OF THE OTHER BLOWN TD's BY BARRON?2 years, 32 games, 12 of which were against teams with Olsen, Graham, and Gonzalez.He sucked right?  He couldn't figure out the difference between a RB in the backfield and the TE ...Where are all the blown TD's Mikal?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      Yep he was dumb..

      Ok Mikal.Let's say you're right.  For whatever reason on that play even though Barron was supposed to be reading the TE, he was staring down the RB the whole time.  Perhaps his bling was outstanding.  WHERE THE **** ARE ALL OF THE OTHER BLOWN TD's BY BARRON?2 years, 32 games, 12 of which were against teams with Olsen, Graham, and Gonzalez.He sucked right?  He couldn't figure out the difference between a RB in the backfield and the TE ...Where are all the blown TD's Mikal?

      Only an idiot such as yourself would consider Mark Barron as being a good coverage Safety...He never played deep enough and when he did, it opened up the seams for the TEs and WRs because he was either too slow or too confused...Plus he couldn't hold his own against three of the best TEs in the league...They played him close to the line because he was better at rush defense than pass defense and plus the the Bux DL was a turnstile and had to be shored up because RBs were gutting them...Get back to porn surfing and stat twirling ya Klown

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1452

      Yep he was dumb..

      Where are all the blown TD's Mikal?

      Only an idiot such as yourself would consider Mark Barron as being a good coverage Safety...He never played deep enough and when he did, it opened up the seams for the TEs and WRs because he was either too slow or too confused...Plus he couldn't hold his own against three of the best TEs in the league...They played him close to the line because he was better at rush defense than pass defense and plus the the Bux DL was a turnstile and had to be shored up because RBs were gutting them...Get back to porn surfing and stat twirling ya Klown

      Just like I thought.  You have nothing.Now get the **** out of my thread Mikal and get back to doing whatever it is that you do at OBP.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3341

      OP made some pretty solid points, but the defense of Mark Barron is laughable.  It was a horrible, horrible pick.  There is no defending it.  None.  Most of the leghumpers that did defend drafting a Safety in the Top Ten seemed to have learned their lesson.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      the defense of Mark Barron is laughable...

      I never called him a future HOF or pro-bowler.  I said "pretty damn good".  His numbers back that up and the kid (remember he was a starter as a rookie and his 2nd year) did pretty well against the best TE trio in the league.He didn't get burned for TDs repeatedly and was instrumental in Schiano's defense.  176 tackles in two years backs that up.Was he as good as we hoped?  Not yet.  But he didn't have an opportunity to grow in that system either.  Barber looked like **** his rookie year.  Lynch certainly wasn't the player in his first few years that he would later become.  McCoy had 4 sacks total his 1st two years.  Four.  Bust, right?Bottom line is Schiano drafted rather well (83% contributing) and was well on his way to putting together a solid team.  Lovie has been ok with his selections (62% contributing) but rather poor in recognizing value and team strengths/weaknesses.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3341

      the defense of Mark Barron is laughable...

      I never called him a future HOF or pro-bowler.  I said "pretty damn good".  His numbers back that up and the kid (remember he was a starter as a rookie and his 2nd year) did pretty well against the best TE trio in the league

      His numbers don't back that up.  This is delusional B/S you're spewing.Reality says that the top ten pick was traded for a 4th & 6th rounder two seasons after being drafted.  And now that player is a third-string Safety for his new team.  He's a JAG - at the very best.

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      the defense of Mark Barron is laughable...

      I never called him a future HOF or pro-bowler.  I said "pretty damn good".  His numbers back that up and the kid (remember he was a starter as a rookie and his 2nd year) did pretty well against the best TE trio in the league

      His numbers don't back that up.  This is delusional B/S you're spewing.Reality says that the top ten pick was traded for a 4th & 6th rounder two seasons after being drafted.  And now that player is a third-string Safety for his new team.  He's a JAG - at the very best.

      Careful, if you challenge him with facts he will post a photo of feces as a reply.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      His numbers don't back that up.

      Here are the top numbers for the first 2 years of safeties/"DBs" from the 2012 draft class:

      Code:
      _____Player Team Pos Comb Total Ast Sck PDef Int FFMark Barron TB SS 176 141 35 2 19 3 1Harrison Smith MIN FS 162 121 41 1 19 5 1Tashaun Gipson CLE FS 128 115 46 0 20 7 0Rodney McLeod STL FS 91 63 16 0 9 2 2Will Hill NYG FS 77 60 17 0 4 2 2Brandian Ross OAK SS 75 56 19 2 -- -- 1Duke Ihenacho DEN SS 73 56 17 0 -- -- 3Antonio Allen NYJ FS 69 46 23 2 8 1 0George Iloka CIN SS 68 41 27 0 7 1 2Robert Blanton MIN DB 60 37 23 0 -- -- 0Jerron McMillian GB SS 42 30 12 0 6 1 0Tavon Wilson NE SS 41 28 13 0 10 4 0Keith Tandy TB FS 40 31 9 0 6 3 1

      Show me where other strong safeties outplayed Barron.His PBUs are right up there with the best free safeties of this draft class and that's not even his game!  You can keep believing the BS if you want, but the proof is in the pudding.  The kid put up decent numbers his first two years and kept Graham, Olsen, and Gonzalez out of the endzone.  That's why he was brought here and that's what he did.

    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      His numbers don't back that up.

      Here are the top numbers for the first 2 years of safeties/"DBs" from the 2012 draft class:

      Code:
      _____Player Team Pos Comb Total Ast Sck PDef Int FFMark Barron TB SS 176 141 35 2 19 3 1Harrison Smith MIN FS 162 121 41 1 19 5 1Tashaun Gipson CLE FS 128 115 46 0 20 7 0Rodney McLeod STL FS 91 63 16 0 9 2 2Will Hill NYG FS 77 60 17 0 4 2 2Brandian Ross OAK SS 75 56 19 2 -- -- 1Duke Ihenacho DEN SS 73 56 17 0 -- -- 3Antonio Allen NYJ FS 69 46 23 2 8 1 0George Iloka CIN SS 68 41 27 0 7 1 2Robert Blanton MIN DB 60 37 23 0 -- -- 0Jerron McMillian GB SS 42 30 12 0 6 1 0Tavon Wilson NE SS 41 28 13 0 10 4 0Keith Tandy TB FS 40 31 9 0 6 3 1

      Show me where other strong safeties outplayed Barron.His PBUs are right up there with the best free safeties of this draft class and that's not even his game!  You can keep believing the BS if you want, but the proof is in the pudding.  The kid put up decent numbers his first two years and kept Graham, Olsen, and Gonzalez out of the endzone.  That's why he was brought here and that's what he did.

      If he was as great as you think they would of got a first or second round pick.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1250

      Mark Barron is a bust. I would take Harrison Smith and Tashaun Gipson over him any day.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      Mark Barron is a bust. I would take Harrison Smith and Tashaun Gipson over him any day.

      Yeah.  Mccoy sux too.  4 sacks in two years is inexcusable.Ronde Barber .. what a loser ... 2 years in and only 2 ints with NO PBUs to show for it!  GTFOH!BTW did you see how many ints Winston threw?  BUST!

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3341

      Here are the top numbers for the first 2 years of safeties/"DBs" from the 2012 draft class:

      Code:
      _____Player Team Pos Comb Total Ast Sck PDef Int FFMark Barron TB SS 176 141 35 2 19 3 1Harrison Smith MIN FS 162 121 41 1 19 5 1Tashaun Gipson CLE FS 128 115 46 0 20 7 0Rodney McLeod STL FS 91 63 16 0 9 2 2Will Hill NYG FS 77 60 17 0 4 2 2Brandian Ross OAK SS 75 56 19 2 -- -- 1Duke Ihenacho DEN SS 73 56 17 0 -- -- 3Antonio Allen NYJ FS 69 46 23 2 8 1 0George Iloka CIN SS 68 41 27 0 7 1 2Robert Blanton MIN DB 60 37 23 0 -- -- 0Jerron McMillian GB SS 42 30 12 0 6 1 0Tavon Wilson NE SS 41 28 13 0 10 4 0Keith Tandy TB FS 40 31 9 0 6 3 1

      Show me where other strong safeties outplayed Barron.

      Safety is a largely participatory position, meaning if you play - you will get stats.  I'm sure you will be surprised to find out that Barron had about twice as many snaps as anybody on that list not named Harrison Smith.I do like that you've narrowed your competition to the 2012 draft class though, and then narrowed it even further to two years.  You are determined to make your point, which is admirable.  Your only problem is, your point sucks.And what's getting lost in all this nonsense is that Schiano sucks.  He sucks hard.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      And what's getting lost in all this nonsense is that Schiano sucks.  He sucks hard.

      What's getting lost further is that even with how bad Schiano sucks, Lovie is even worse.Took a 4 win team, rebuilt them to a 2 win team.Took a mediocre OL, made it worse.Took a mediocre DL, made it worse.Took a Probowl WLB, made him mediocre.Took a mediocre QB, made him a starter.Even Lovie's hand-picked guys that "knew the system" came here and rolled out the red carpet Defense.The only player that has flourished under Smith is the guy playing for a contract to GTFO.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3341

      You won’t find me defending Smith’s performance in Tampa any time soon.  He’s done a horrible job thus far.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1784

      Your always rebuilding until you win a SB.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      Your always rebuilding until you win a SB.

      That's called "building".What Smith has been doing is much more akin to taking your car to a mechanic, he tells you the engine needs to be rebuilt.  Then uses replacement parts that don't fit along with broken parts in the rebuild and scratches his head at the leftover mount bolts laying on the table as he hands you your keys back.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1784

      Your always rebuilding until you win a SB.

      That's called "building".What Smith has been doing is much more akin to taking your car to a mechanic, he tells you the engine needs to be rebuilt.  Then uses replacement parts that don't fit along with broken parts in the rebuild and scratches his head at the leftover mount bolts laying on the table as he hands you your keys back.

      Semantics. Either way your taking pieces out that don't work and putting in pieces that do. You keep doing that until you win the big game.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      Either way your taking pieces out that don't work and putting in pieces that do.

      Right, but that's not what happened.Lovie took pieces out that worked, replaced them with broken pieces, then replaced some other broken pieces with more broken pieces and tells you every week your car's running better.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1784

      Either way your taking pieces out that don't work and putting in pieces that do.

      Right, but that's not what happened.Lovie took pieces out that worked, replaced them with broken pieces, then replaced some other broken pieces with more broken pieces and tells you every week your car's running better.

      Did they really work? Not really the team still sucked pretty bad. It's subjective on what the coach thinks is the better personnel move. It's always debatable unless the team wins and wins the big games. Something this team hasn't been able to so since Gruden was here.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 235

      And what's getting lost in all this nonsense is that Schiano sucks.  He sucks hard.

      What's getting lost further is that even with how bad Schiano sucks, Lovie is even worse.Took a 4 win team, rebuilt them to a 2 win team.Took a mediocre OL, made it worse.Took a mediocre DL, made it worse.Took a Probowl WLB, made him mediocre.Took a mediocre QB, made him a starter.

      you may have a point about the FA's that Lovie brought in his first year not working out.  but to say that the OL is worse this year than last year is false.  The OL is doing a much better job this year than last year with the additions of OT Smith and OG Marpet.  Now you may have a point about C EDS overstaying his welcome and quite possibly OG Mankins - but to say that unit is worse....worse at what?  WLB David was an alternate pro bowl selection last year, Lovie's first year at HC.  And since you really want to grasp straws, its the same defense (and position) he has played in his whole career.  You can blame Lovie for a lot but not for David's inability to wrap a tackle, shed blocks, take better angles..etc etc.  I just hope that he gets it together this sunday, otherwise Jones and Morris will have a field day.  And thats gonna be on him, not Lovie. 

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 235

      also, Jameis is not a “mediocre” QB.  He is not an elite QB, he is not a good QB.He is a ROOKIE QB having a decent rookie season, put a pin in it.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      ...Lol @ "how many TDs did he allow vs Graham....0!"Wrong. In the 2013 week 2 game vs the Saints, Barron vacated his zone which left Jimmy Graham WIDE THE F*CK OPEN for a 56 yard TD.

      The Defense was called for Barron to read the RB.  Why?  No Clue.  barron_TD.jpgSurely you have many more examples of Barron being "horrible in coverage" and costing his team TD after TD ... the kid did start 32 games here from his rookie year on ...He did face the best trio of TEs in the league in Olsen, Gonzalez, and Graham afterall ...

      He made the wrong read. He vacated his zone and left Graham wide open for one of the easiest scores of his career.I actually didn't offer this play as an example of him being bad in coverage. You are the one who tried to play it off that Barron did well in coverage vs. Graham. The fact is, he wasn't matched up vs Graham(or any opponents top TE) on most of the pass plays. A lot of the time, Barron was responsible for a zone. This is where he struggled, and still struggles to this day. Where Barron did improve was his M2M coverage on short routes(quick ins, quick outs, comeback routes, and drag routes). He was average when covering these plays M2M. Everything else when in pass coverage was bad on a consistent basis, no matter if he was covering a TE/WR/RB. You're reaching in the case of Barron to try and show Schiano in a more positive light. You need to find a better example, because no one here is buying that Barron was even competent in coverage.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1151

      also, Jameis is not a "mediocre" QB.  He is not an elite QB, he is not a good QB.He is a ROOKIE QB having a decent rookie season, put a pin in it.

      A 1:1 TD/INT ratio is mediocre, not decent.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      His numbers don't back that up.

      Here are the top numbers for the first 2 years of safeties/"DBs" from the 2012 draft class:

      Code:
      _____Player Team Pos Comb Total Ast Sck PDef Int FFMark Barron TB SS 176 141 35 2 19 3 1Harrison Smith MIN FS 162 121 41 1 19 5 1Tashaun Gipson CLE FS 128 115 46 0 20 7 0Rodney McLeod STL FS 91 63 16 0 9 2 2Will Hill NYG FS 77 60 17 0 4 2 2Brandian Ross OAK SS 75 56 19 2 -- -- 1Duke Ihenacho DEN SS 73 56 17 0 -- -- 3Antonio Allen NYJ FS 69 46 23 2 8 1 0George Iloka CIN SS 68 41 27 0 7 1 2Robert Blanton MIN DB 60 37 23 0 -- -- 0Jerron McMillian GB SS 42 30 12 0 6 1 0Tavon Wilson NE SS 41 28 13 0 10 4 0Keith Tandy TB FS 40 31 9 0 6 3 1

      Show me where other strong safeties outplayed Barron.His PBUs are right up there with the best free safeties of this draft class and that's not even his game!  You can keep believing the BS if you want, but the proof is in the pudding.  The kid put up decent numbers his first two years and kept Graham, Olsen, and Gonzalez out of the endzone.  That's why he was brought here and that's what he did.

      As Biggs noted, it's a cherry picked list. Also, if you sit down and watch Barron in his 2 years at safety, he actually lined up at both FS and SS. Schiano even had quotes that he felt that both his safeties could play both positions interchangeably, and they often flip-flopped. Also, you're either just assuming that Barron was constantly directly matched up vs. Graham, Olsen, Gonzo and their opponents top TE. We know that Barber had a good portion of those responsibilities when he was back deep as a Safety. Also, in that same game referenced earlier, Goldson was in M2M coverage with Graham and he too gave up a TD. Another mistake is just looking at TDs allowed as a barometer for how good/bad safety is. Truth is, unless it's a long bomb where a Safety didn't get to an area in time, or you have a Safety that is constantly in man coverage, you won't see too many TDs be "charged" to the Safety. Mostly you will see LBs and CBs at fault in coverage. By only using TDs allowed as a barometer, then you ignore a lost of the plays that happen in the meart of the field between the 20s. For instance, Barron gives up a few passes on 3rd down in a game and the offense eventually scores via rushing TD. Does that mean Barron did his job because the TD happened on the ground? No.  Yes, Barron had quite a few tackles, but he was on the field a lot more than many other safeties in the league. The Bucs had a bad offense, which meant that the defense saw the field more than your typical defense. Passes defensed and INTs don't even come close to telling the whole story. That's just 22 plays out of the hundreds of pass plays that Barron was on the field for in those 2 seasons. The fact is, he was a good tackler on run plays, but he was poor in coverage. Lovie being brought in didn't change that. Barron is now with a better defensive mind than either Lovie or Schiano, and Williams knows to limit Barron to a rotational player.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      Does that mean Barron did his job because the TD happened on the ground? No. 

      Look, I'm not saying the kid was an all-star player.  He was a key player to Schiano's defense though and did the job he was signed to do.To say he was a bust because he wasn't a FS and didn't have elite cover skills in zone (even though when manned up he did rather well) misses the point for why he was signed in the first place and completely dismisses the growth that most young players experience in the league after their 1st two years.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1250

      Does that mean Barron did his job because the TD happened on the ground? No. 

      Look, I'm not saying the kid was an all-star player.  He was a key player to Schiano's defense though and did the job he was signed to do.To say he was a bust because he wasn't a FS and didn't have elite cover skills in zone (even though when manned up he did rather well) misses the point for why he was signed in the first place and completely dismisses the growth that most young players experience in the league after their 1st two years.

      I agree that he wasn't supposed to be our FS but more of our in the box SS. He did okay with Schiano but the bigger issue is that he should not have been drafted in the top 10 in any case. Dumb pick. Even though it isn't his fault where he was drafted he is still a bust because of where he was drafted.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      ... I just hope that he gets it together this sunday, otherwise Jones and Morris will have a field day.  And thats gonna be on him, not Lovie.

      The list was talking about Lovie's roster decisions (and resulting performance) since he got here, not this year alone.Regarding LVD, the play of the entire team is on Lovie.  Much more so on Defense and ST as Lovie doesn't know **** about offense.  LVD isn't the only player regressing under Lovie and he isn't the only one missing tackles or being caught out of position.If he were the only one struggling one might question either his work ethic after cashing in or an injury, but seeing as though that isn't the case and this is an ENTIRE defense that is struggling, I'm going to put this on the coaching staff, not LVD.One note on this: Anyone else notice the Offense seems to be getting better every week, playing on the same page and not needing 5 years to figure it out?  KoetterDefense: year 2, same scheme, still struggling ... Smith

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1452

      ...Even though it isn't his fault where he was drafted he is still a bust because of where he was drafted.

      Basing that label off of his first two years is premature, but quite common around here.  I disagree, but whatever.Moving on.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 5438

      Does that mean Barron did his job because the TD happened on the ground? No. 

      Look, I'm not saying the kid was an all-star player.  He was a key player to Schiano's defense though and did the job he was signed to do.To say he was a bust because he wasn't a FS and didn't have elite cover skills in zone (even though when manned up he did rather well) misses the point for why he was signed in the first place and completely dismisses the growth that most young players experience in the league after their 1st two years.

      It's sort of a blend. He was a bust, but he was also a busted pick by Dom and Schiano. If you are drafting a player who you know will only be good as a hybrid safety/LB with a top 10 pick in the draft, that's absurd. He also was never a player that was, as Mayock put it, "the floor of a is a year to year pro bowler". Barron was mostly average. Where people have a fundamental misunderstanding of how Barron was actually used is when they talk about "in the box". The fact is, he was in the box less than 1/3 of his plays while in Tampa. In the last 4-5 years, the game has dramatically shifted in favor of the passing game. It just isn't feasible to have one of your safeties in the box and leaving a safety single high. Seattle does it, but that is cover 3, something Schiano didn't employ much. If you go back and watch every snap Barron was on the field, he wasn't in the  box very often at all. When he was brought up into the box, Tandy or Ahmad Black were usually brought onto the field to still keep 2 safeties back deep. The fact is, Schiano viewed Barron as a guy who could play either safety position and he did bounce back and forth between FS and SS during games. He was bad in zone, no matter where he was aligned. He was only good in M2M if they were routes that were within 10 yards of the LOS. Gregg Williams recognizes Barron's role very well. A rotational DB. Don't put him in deep coverage situations very often. Bring him in as an occasional blitzer. Play him as the S/LB hybrid on 3rd and long and long yardage situations. Unless there is an injury in STL, he won't see the field much more than 50% of the time, and rightfully so. Lovie has made a lot of boneheaded decisions, but bouncing Barron wasn't one of them. He is a DB who doesn't do basic DB functions well. It would be like having a DE who sucked at pass rushing, but was excellent when you asked him to drop off the rush and cover the flats.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1250

      ...Even though it isn't his fault where he was drafted he is still a bust because of where he was drafted.

      Basing that label off of his first two years is premature, but quite common around here.  I disagree, but whatever.Moving on.

      You wouldn't call Barron a bust for us?He doesn't even start for the Rams and like the poster above said, he is very limited on what he can do. Should have never been a top 10 pick, round 4 or 5 is more like it.

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