[JDouble]

#25930

Rotoworld’s QB Metrics for the 2nd tier of QBs is out. Sucks there is no Garoppolo. He said he couldn’t get every game and didn’t want to risk painting an inaccurate picture my only using the 8 games he did have for Garoppolo. :(  Still good stuff though.Tier 1 - http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/out-of-the-box?pg=1Tier 2 - http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46748/349/peshek-qb-metrics-20     [img width=600 height=151]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkW9fRGCYAAE8BT.jpg:large[/img]

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[Anonymous]

#151518

That Teddy Bridgewater is pretty damned good.

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[Anonymous]

#151519

yep, Bridgewater is clearly the best on film, and he’s showing up the best on stats. So how do people have him dropping? Bortles being drafted before him is something I wont understand if it happens.

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[Anonymous]

#151520

yeah hes great with those 1-10 yard passes

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[Anonymous]

#151521

The biggest difference between the top prospects and the rest is how they perform under pressure.  And this supports all the concerns about Shaw after PR’s latest puff piece

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[Anonymous]

#151522

I like the balance of Shaw and Manziel as far as their distribution of passes. I like that quality in a quarterback, to just have that probability of unpredictability. For a defense, knowing the quarterback will try to put the ball anywhere on the field at any given moment can be scary and keep them honest.

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[Anonymous]

#151523

What jumped out at me is how McCarron, Murray, and Carr threw such a low percentage of 20+ yard attempts, and their completion rate for those attempts were awful. To me, that screams system QB that will only stand a chance in dink & dunk west coast style offenses. The deep ball is either none existent or far too inconsistent with those three guys. Also a bit shocking to see how many of these guy's completion % drops to 50 or below when pressured. Shaw and Boyd are the worst with 35% and 38%, which is kinda expected cause you see it on film. Not too surprised by Murray or Carr's 50% mark either....cause again you can see it on film. Mettenberger surprised me though. He seems like he is generally unaffected by the rush and steps up into traffic and delivers....so his 50% under pressure was a bit of a surprise.

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[Anonymous]

#151524

The top four QB’s are off the charts good.  Even the worst QB under pressure (Carr) projects to be better than half of the current NFL QB’s.  McCarron is a special case but I personally don't like his upside like the top four.  Manziel too me has become really underrated as a passer when compared to his peers IMO and I would be happy if the Bucs drafted him.1 of the top 4 QB's is going to be a Buc IMVHO.Like McCarron, Jimmy G is a wildcard.Not a fan of Mettenburg, Shaw or Murray but they would make for good projects.

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[Anonymous]

#151525

yeah hes great with those 1-10 yard passes

305 yards per game and 9.3 yards per attempt. If you dont like his numbers or game film then you are clueless

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[Anonymous]

#151526

I like the balance of Shaw and Manziel as far as their distribution of passes. I like that quality in a quarterback, to just have that probability of unpredictability. For a defense, knowing the quarterback will try to put the ball anywhere on the field at any given moment can be scary and keep them honest.

yep. But then you look at what happens to Shaw under pressure vs. Johnny under pressure and it is clear as day why one is a 1st round pick and one is a 7th round pick.

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[Anonymous]

#151527

What jumped out at me is how McCarron, Murray, and Carr threw such a low percentage of 20+ yard attempts, and their completion rate for those attempts were awful. To me, that screams system QB that will only stand a chance in dink & dunk west coast style offenses. The deep ball is either none existent or far too inconsistent with those three guys. Also a bit shocking to see how many of these guy's completion % drops to 50 or below when pressured. Shaw and Boyd are the worst with 35% and 38%, which is kinda expected cause you see it on film. Not too surprised by Murray or Carr's 50% mark either....cause again you can see it on film. Mettenberger surprised me though. He seems like he is generally unaffected by the rush and steps up into traffic and delivers....so his 50% under pressure was a bit of a surprise.

I am not too concerned about Carr because he showed he has the arm strength and production in a previous offense that was more vertical.  The top four are pretty damn good and the differences between them are very tiny. Bortles not having the strongest arm but still having good production downfield is very good.Mettenburg knows where to go for his hot reads, but if there is unexpected pressure he is a statue and he doesn't make good decisions.  That is why I don't see why some want the Bucs to draft Mettenburg when the Bucs already have a similar player in Glennon IMO. Shaw and Murray are simply not NFL caliber starters but they could change with some coaching and seasoning.  Boyd is a lost cause lol.

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[Anonymous]

#151528

I like the balance of Shaw and Manziel as far as their distribution of passes. I like that quality in a quarterback, to just have that probability of unpredictability. For a defense, knowing the quarterback will try to put the ball anywhere on the field at any given moment can be scary and keep them honest.

Too much of that is dictated by the systems they are in.

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[Anonymous]

#151529

What jumped out at me is how McCarron, Murray, and Carr threw such a low percentage of 20+ yard attempts, and their completion rate for those attempts were awful. To me, that screams system QB that will only stand a chance in dink & dunk west coast style offenses. The deep ball is either none existent or far too inconsistent with those three guys. Also a bit shocking to see how many of these guy's completion % drops to 50 or below when pressured. Shaw and Boyd are the worst with 35% and 38%, which is kinda expected cause you see it on film. Not too surprised by Murray or Carr's 50% mark either....cause again you can see it on film. Mettenberger surprised me though. He seems like he is generally unaffected by the rush and steps up into traffic and delivers....so his 50% under pressure was a bit of a surprise.

I am not too concerned about Carr...

You should be. Other than Shaw and Boyd...Carr had the biggest drop in completion % under pressure. I think that pretty accurately backs up what you can see on film.....which is a guy that cannot handle pressure.

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[Anonymous]

#151530

That is a mechanical problem with his backfoot IMO which can be easily corrected.

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[Anonymous]

#151531

Hopefully people will continue to nitpick Bridgewater and he’ll fall to #7.

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[Anonymous]

#151532

id take Manziel everytime over Bridgewater.

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[Anonymous]

#151533

To be considered top tier NFL caliber QB you have to be elite in the 11-20 range.Manziel and Bridgewater are the only two prospects to satisfy that criteria based on this data.  I just can't wrap my head around why people are so against Manziel IMO.

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[Anonymous]

#151534

That is a mechanical ... back foot.

It all starts with someone taking something out of context.

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[Anonymous]

#151535

id take Manziel everytime over Bridgewater.

I like Teddy over Manziel still but the gap isn't that big as people believe. 

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[Anonymous]

#151536

That is a mechanical ... back foot.

It all starts with someone taking something out of context.

Freeman is that you?  8)

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[Anonymous]

#151537

Hey, you uh… hear about that Carr guy? Yeah, I heard he’s got a mechanical foot. Yeah, it’s not even his real foot. If I were an NFL franchise, I wouldn’t draft him.

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[Anonymous]

#151538

Hey, you uh... hear about that Carr guy? Yeah, I heard he's got a mechanical foot. Yeah, it's not even his real foot. If I were an NFL franchise, I wouldn't draft him.

Haha.Robocop came out already not need for another re-make.

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[Anonymous]

#151539

id take Manziel everytime over Bridgewater.

I like Teddy over Manziel still but the gap isn't that big as people believe.

Manziel”s running ability is the difference maker between the two.

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[Anonymous]

#151540

id take Manziel everytime over Bridgewater.

I like Teddy over Manziel still but the gap isn't that big as people believe.

Manziel"s running ability is the difference maker between the two.

I was going to say that but Teddy has wheels too. 

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[Anonymous]

#151541

Teddy or bust!

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[Anonymous]

#151542

Teddy doesn’t have wheels. He is not very elusive in the pocket and he had 164 total rushing yards in three years.

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[Anonymous]

#151543

plus he rates a zero in the swagger dept.  Manziel a 10.

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[Anonymous]

#151544

plus he rates a zero in the swagger dept.  Manziel a 10.

This, plus Manziel's numbers here look the best IMO.  Deep ball is the most important, if you can throw the deep ball well you have the tools to learn to do the rest.

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[Anonymous]

#151545

swagger dept, hahahaha. [img width=298 height=400]http://canespace.typepad.com/.a/6a00e008c672588834015436a1bb0b970c-pi[/img]Young Johnny Football

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[Anonymous]

#151546

yeah hes great with those 1-10 yard passes

What do you think the sizeable majority of passes thrown by most NFL quarterbacks are?

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[Anonymous]

#151547

Teddy doesn't have wheels. He is not very elusive in the pocket and he had 164 total rushing yards in three years.

Many observers say he has a Brady-esque fluidity in the pocket to move around and elude defenders. Mobility isn't just about rushing yards.

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[Anonymous]

#151548

Bridgewater FTW .If he is the 3rd QB , and avalaible at #7 taken thanks to the Underwear Olympics , the Glazers should laugh all the way to the bank

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[Anonymous]

#151549

These numbers can be misleading…A great receiving  corp will make a crappy QB look good and visa versa....The quality of the receivers  are determining factors in these numbers...Game film...Game film....Game film....Stat Charts and Youtube highlights are useless...

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[Anonymous]

#151550

Teddy doesn't have wheels. He is not very elusive in the pocket and he had 164 total rushing yards in three years.

Many observers say he has a Brady-esque fluidity in the pocket to move around and elude defenders. Mobility isn't just about rushing yards.

Thanks for the lesson on what mobility means, but I knew that. That is why I said "he is not very elusive in the pocket" As far as him being Brady like with his fluidity....don't see it. At all. I can count on both hands the number of times I saw him look really slick and side step a rusher. He just doesn't have great functional mobility imo. He is solid when it comes to running a bootleg. He has the ability to roll out and throw on the run, but I think it's a little reverse racism going on to where people think because he is black he is automatically mobile. Simply not the case. I'd say his mobility/elusiveness is average at best. He's certainly no Brad Johnson type statue, but I'd say he is less than Andy Dalton or Jay Cutler when it comes to mobility/elusiveness. I've seen far to many instances of him rolling up in the fetal position when an unblocked defender comes flying through the line to believe he secretly has some great mobility that he hasn't used.

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[Anonymous]

#151551

Game film...Game film....Game film....

I agree. So how can anyone watch these 15 games and tell me Carr is a solid QB prospect? http://draftbreakdown.com/players/derek-carr/I swear some folks on here have never actually watched him play.

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[Anonymous]

#151552

Teddy doesn't have wheels. He is not very elusive in the pocket and he had 164 total rushing yards in three years.

Many observers say he has a Brady-esque fluidity in the pocket to move around and elude defenders. Mobility isn't just about rushing yards.

Thanks for the lesson on what mobility means, but I knew that. That is why I said "he is not very elusive in the pocket" As far as him being Brady like with his fluidity....don't see it. At all. I can count on both hands the number of times I saw him look really slick and side step a rusher. He just doesn't have great functional mobility imo. He is solid when it comes to running a bootleg. He has the ability to roll out and throw on the run, but I think it's a little reverse racism going on to where people think because he is black he is automatically mobile. Simply not the case. I'd say his mobility/elusiveness is average at best. He's certainly no Brad Johnson type statue, but I'd say he is less than Andy Dalton or Jay Cutler when it comes to mobility/elusiveness. I've seen far to many instances of him rolling up in the fetal position when an unblocked defender comes flying through the line to believe he secretly has some great mobility that he hasn't used.

Honestly the mobility thing isn't that big a deal to me if you have a solid passer, but it seems like Lovie is placing a premium on it

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[Anonymous]

#151553

Teddy doesn't have wheels. He is not very elusive in the pocket and he had 164 total rushing yards in three years.

Many observers say he has a Brady-esque fluidity in the pocket to move around and elude defenders. Mobility isn't just about rushing yards.

Thanks for the lesson on what mobility means, but I knew that. That is why I said "he is not very elusive in the pocket" As far as him being Brady like with his fluidity....don't see it. At all. I can count on both hands the number of times I saw him look really slick and side step a rusher. He just doesn't have great functional mobility imo. He is solid when it comes to running a bootleg. He has the ability to roll out and throw on the run, but I think it's a little reverse racism going on to where people think because he is black he is automatically mobile. Simply not the case. I'd say his mobility/elusiveness is average at best. He's certainly no Brad Johnson type statue, but I'd say he is less than Andy Dalton or Jay Cutler when it comes to mobility/elusiveness. I've seen far to many instances of him rolling up in the fetal position when an unblocked defender comes flying through the line to believe he secretly has some great mobility that he hasn't used.

Almost every scouting report I've read talks about how great his pocket presence is.

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[Anonymous]

#151554

In watching Teddy, he has great pocket presence and I think the functional mobility an NFL quarterback will need to be successful at the NFL level.

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[Anonymous]

#151555

TEDDY TEDDY TEDDY TEDDY TEDDYLaughable at how Teddy has fallen from Grace. Also explains the Aaron Rogers episode. I've been saying it for years. Draft position should be determined by game tape 95% and 5% interview. The rest is for fans.What kind of 40 time a guy runs 3 months after his last game has zero relevance. Oh no's, Teddy overthrew someone playing on an empty field in shorts. Teams who drastically shift their draft boards based on workouts in shorts, vertical jump, bench press deserve exactly what they get. Is he a baller? Is he a player?Back to me being right about Teddy as the best prospect. I again, claimed him the best QB in the draft no more than 8 hours ago after rewatching his bowl game. Word!

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[Anonymous]

#151556

In watching Teddy, he has great pocket presence and I think the functional mobility an NFL quarterback will need to be successful at the NFL level.

Yeah, maybe I'm not being clear or over stating my opinion. Teddy has average mobility. It's not a weakness or a negative against him imo. I was just responding to the post that claims "He's got wheels" because I see that a lot and I think it is completely false. He's like an Andy Dalton.....not a Wilson or Kapernick.

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[Anonymous]

#151557

Teddy doesn't have wheels. He is not very elusive in the pocket and he had 164 total rushing yards in three years.

Many observers say he has a Brady-esque fluidity in the pocket to move around and elude defenders. Mobility isn't just about rushing yards.

Thanks for the lesson on what mobility means, but I knew that. That is why I said "he is not very elusive in the pocket" As far as him being Brady like with his fluidity....don't see it. At all. I can count on both hands the number of times I saw him look really slick and side step a rusher. He just doesn't have great functional mobility imo. He is solid when it comes to running a bootleg. He has the ability to roll out and throw on the run, but I think it's a little reverse racism going on to where people think because he is black he is automatically mobile. Simply not the case. I'd say his mobility/elusiveness is average at best. He's certainly no Brad Johnson type statue, but I'd say he is less than Andy Dalton or Jay Cutler when it comes to mobility/elusiveness. I've seen far to many instances of him rolling up in the fetal position when an unblocked defender comes flying through the line to believe he secretly has some great mobility that he hasn't used.

You need to rewatch the Miami bowl game. In the 2nd offensive series, he shows you supreme mobility in the pocket, far beyond the reverse out JFF style. I'll elaborate you for, it'll paint a picture.Snap under center, 5 step drop. Teddy's RG gives up pressure to his play side very quickly, Teddy reverses out to the left side where he finds his LT has given up outside pressure. He then makes a quick cut, steps or rather runs upward in the pocket and hits  a wide open WR for an 8 yard gain. All that was done within the tackle box.Tell me more about his lack of pocket presence and mobility?JFF, feels pressure and does his Tebow reverse out during which he loses approximately 8-10 yards of depth while simultaneously throwing off all of his throwing lanes and angles to his WR.

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[Anonymous]

#151558

He’s not elusive in the pocket? Fooled me. There are a few times I've seen him tuck, but those aren't really mobility issues so much as they are hesitation - stayed with the play a bit too long and ate it. There are enough examples of him escaping pressure in the pocket for me not to have any concerns. He's not going to run for a ton of yards, but he can definitely escape and make plays. What's nuts about the pro day stuff is that most of the bad throws they keep showing on NFL Network are throws he makes constantly in games.

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[Anonymous]

#151559

Yeah, maybe I’m not being clear or over stating my opinion. Teddy has average mobility. It’s not a weakness or a negative against him imo. I was just responding to the post that claims “He’s got wheels” because I see that a lot and I think it is completely false. He’s like an Andy Dalton…..not a Wilson or Kapernick.

I think that's a fair assessment.

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[Anonymous]

#151560

In watching Teddy, he has great pocket presence and I think the functional mobility an NFL quarterback will need to be successful at the NFL level.

Yeah, maybe I'm not being clear or over stating my opinion. Teddy has average mobility. It's not a weakness or a negative against him imo. I was just responding to the post that claims "He's got wheels" because I see that a lot and I think it is completely false. He's like an Andy Dalton.....not a Wilson or Kapernick.

I would agree that he's not Wilson or Kap, but I think he's better than Dalton.

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[Anonymous]

#151561

And can’t you even argue tucking and turning fetal is a sign of pocket presence/awareness? In essence he’s showing that he knows someone is coming and the only thing he can do is protect himself and the ball. A QB without pocket presence would just sit there and get creamed not knowing it’s even coming.

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[Anonymous]

#151562

Yeah BucNY – Miami game is a good example. He makes a few really good escapes in that one.

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[Anonymous]

#151563

Re: Carr. I'm honestly confused on that guy. Hard me to separate him from the offense. For that alone I'd avoid him really early.

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[Anonymous]

#151564

And can't you even argue tucking and turning fetal is a sign of pocket presence/awareness? In essence he's showing that he knows someone is coming and the only thing he can do is protect himself and the ball. A QB without pocket presence would just sit there and get creamed not knowing it's even coming.

Well if you wanna talk awareness we can, but the conversation was about having great pocket mobility/elusiveness. Two different things. A guy that does actually "have wheels" like Manziel or Wilson, would put a spin move or a juke on the defender and go make something happen. Rolling up in the fetal position and taking the sack is smart for a QB that doesn't have the mobility to escape.....which was the point.

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[Anonymous]

#151565

And can't you even argue tucking and turning fetal is a sign of pocket presence/awareness? In essence he's showing that he knows someone is coming and the only thing he can do is protect himself and the ball. A QB without pocket presence would just sit there and get creamed not knowing it's even coming.

Well if you wanna talk awareness we can, but the conversation was about having great pocket mobility/elusiveness. Two different things. A guy that does actually "have wheels" like Manziel or Wilson, would put a spin move or a juke on the defender and go make something happen. Rolling up in the fetal position and taking the sack is smart for a QB that doesn't have the mobility to escape.....which was the point.

I can't say how often or how many times Bridgewater turns fetal, but no QB is immune to getting hit. Defensive players get scholarships, too. Sometimes they do what needs to be done to get you and there's nothing you can do about it. Peyton Manning has great pocket mobility and rarely takes sacks, but he'll turn fetal here and there. It's a non-issue.

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[Anonymous]

#151566

Re: Carr. I'm honestly confused on that guy. Hard me to separate him from the offense. For that alone I'd avoid him really early.

Every somewhat meaningful number I've seen seems to be against him.

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[Anonymous]

#151567

Re: Carr. I'm honestly confused on that guy. Hard me to separate him from the offense. For that alone I'd avoid him really early.

Every somewhat meaningful number I've seen seems to be against him.

I agree, but I can't help thinking some of that is part of that is system. Everything is so quick. From what I can tell he's the opposite of his brother in the pocket - he's a bit frantic with pressure, whereas his brother seemed to not sense it.

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[Anonymous]

#151568

And can't you even argue tucking and turning fetal is a sign of pocket presence/awareness? In essence he's showing that he knows someone is coming and the only thing he can do is protect himself and the ball. A QB without pocket presence would just sit there and get creamed not knowing it's even coming.

Well if you wanna talk awareness we can, but the conversation was about having great pocket mobility/elusiveness. Two different things. A guy that does actually "have wheels" like Manziel or Wilson, would put a spin move or a juke on the defender and go make something happen. Rolling up in the fetal position and taking the sack is smart for a QB that doesn't have the mobility to escape.....which was the point.

Just give it up dude. JFF is a scrambler. Teddy is a pocket passer. To say JFF has pocket presence is a freaking joke. Pull up any game film on him and he's consistently leaving pocket or feeling pressure where no one is near him. You bagged on Glennon for it all year and it's exactly what JFF does. Just face it, he's more comfortable running to throw than standing in the pocket. That's not a good thing for a NFL QB.

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[Anonymous]

#151569

And can't you even argue tucking and turning fetal is a sign of pocket presence/awareness? In essence he's showing that he knows someone is coming and the only thing he can do is protect himself and the ball. A QB without pocket presence would just sit there and get creamed not knowing it's even coming.

Well if you wanna talk awareness we can, but the conversation was about having great pocket mobility/elusiveness. Two different things. A guy that does actually "have wheels" like Manziel or Wilson, would put a spin move or a juke on the defender and go make something happen. Rolling up in the fetal position and taking the sack is smart for a QB that doesn't have the mobility to escape.....which was the point.

Just give it up dude. JFF is a scrambler. Teddy is a pocket passer. To say JFF has pocket presence is a freaking joke. Pull up any game film on him and he's consistently leaving pocket or feeling pressure where no one is near him. You bagged on Glennon for it all year and it's exactly what JFF does. Just face it, he's more comfortable running to throw than standing in the pocket. That's not a good thing for a NFL QB.

Lol. What Manziel has is beyond pocket presence. It's borderline "Spidey Sense" But hey, if it makes you feel better to pretend that isn't the case...then whatever floats your boat.It says a lot that you cannot discern a difference between a statuesque Glennon constantly moving diagonally backwards even when there is no real pressure, and what Johnny Manziel does. No wonder we can't find any common ground on QB prospects. You are obviously typing on a braille keyboard but I never realized before now that you are completely blind! My bad.

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[Anonymous]

#151570

Not cool, my uncle wears glasses!What Manziel has is some special elusiveness. It's not a pocket presence. When I watch Manziel he uses that ability to run, not pass. He feels cut backs, he can stop and start on a dime and feel guys behind him but he looks and acts uncomfortable standing in the pocket waiting for a WR to flash. That's why I say no pocket presence.

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[Anonymous]

#151571

It’s true Manziel likes to bail, like Jeff Garcia did, but what’s most important is when he bails, he is still thinking about passing the ball. He’s not just trying to scramble. He has good awareness for what is going on downfield.

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[Anonymous]

#151572

It's true Manziel likes to bail, like Jeff Garcia did, but what's most important is when he bails, he is still thinking about passing the ball. He's not just trying to scramble. He has good awareness for what is going on downfield.

The question for me is will that be effective in the NFL over the long term? I'm concerned that it won't be. Improvison is something defense's have trouble with, but by nature it's also inconsistent and unpredictable.

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[Anonymous]

#151573

Not cool, my uncle wears glasses!What Manziel has is some special elusiveness. It's not a pocket presence. When I watch Manziel he uses that ability to run, not pass. He feels cut backs, he can stop and start on a dime and feel guys behind him but he looks and acts uncomfortable standing in the pocket waiting for a WR to flash. That's why I say no pocket presence.

We can agree to disagree bro. I think when you cut out the crazy highlights of him running around being special......you are left with a solid pocket QB that looks comfortable shredding you from the pocket. He's always gonna be bouncing on his top toes and ready to run if need be. That is just part of his game.  Peyton Manning has the same happy feet in the pocket. He is never flat footed. It's not a negative.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1mHnNs6Ru8

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[Anonymous]

#151574

Not cool, my uncle wears glasses!What Manziel has is some special elusiveness. It's not a pocket presence. When I watch Manziel he uses that ability to run, not pass. He feels cut backs, he can stop and start on a dime and feel guys behind him but he looks and acts uncomfortable standing in the pocket waiting for a WR to flash. That's why I say no pocket presence.

We can agree to disagree bro. I think when you cut out the crazy highlights of him running around being special......you are left with a solid pocket QB that looks comfortable shredding you from the pocket. He's always gonna be bouncing on his top toes and ready to run if need be. That is just part of his game.  Peyton Manning has the same happy feet in the pocket. He is never flat footed. It's not a negative.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1mHnNs6Ru8

He's a good prospect. For me it boils down to a few basic points. One I just mentioned about breaking out of the pocket and improvising. The other is that when I watch him, sometimes he just looks more comfortable running and throwing. I think he'll need to be a pocket first passer to be successful and i'm not confident that he'll be able to. He has been good from the pocket but not as consistent as TB and that's why I'm screaming for Teddy.

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[Anonymous]

#151575

It's true Manziel likes to bail, like Jeff Garcia did, but what's most important is when he bails, he is still thinking about passing the ball. He's not just trying to scramble. He has good awareness for what is going on downfield.

The question for me is will that be effective in the NFL over the long term? I'm concerned that it won't be. Improvison is something defense's have trouble with, but by nature it's also inconsistent and unpredictable.

Garcia had a nice, long career. Some may say Tony Romo has a similar style.

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[Anonymous]

#151576

Lots of Manziel type QBs start out scrambling too much. They eventually settle in though and then they are truly dangerous because they will shred you from the pocket or run all over your face. With a pocket passer, you better hope he translates right away because if he can't and he needs time to adjust to the NFL, he can't buy time or improvise in the mean time. He'll just get destroyed and be horrible. And that usually ends in a loss of self confidence followed by a long career of backing up real QBs or collecting a check each year as a camp arm. Sure, I wish Johnny was a little bigger....but to me he is in that mold of Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo, Brett Favre, Jeff Garcia, or Steve Young. Smart guys that can play from the pocket and do very well, but also have the ability to kill you with their feet if you manage to shut down the passing game. That's what I want. Pocket passing statues are a thing of the past imo. Even Andrew Luck is an outstanding athlete that can run around really well. In today's world, even QBs should be expected to be great athletes. There is really no excuse to not be a dual threat nowadays.

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[Anonymous]

#151577

Put Glennon’s #s up there from college for comparison. 

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[Anonymous]

#151578

Put Glennon's #s up there from college for comparison.

Oh how I wish I could. They didn't do this last year though.

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[Anonymous]

#151579

Put Glennon's #s up there from college for comparison.

Oh how I wish I could. They didn't do this last year though.

Didn't they? I could have sworn i've seen it before. I'll check into it. I could swear...

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[Anonymous]

#151580

Best I can find for Glennon:http://secondroundstats.com/?p=181

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[Anonymous]

#151581

Good of this gentlemen to provide the world with the end-all, be-all of QB metrics. Using this data, teams are pretty much guaranteed to get exactly the QB that the report indicates. Win for everyone!

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[Anonymous]

#151582

yeah hes great the best with those 1-10 yard passes

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[Anonymous]

#151583

plus he rates a zero in the swagger dept.  Manziel a 10.

This, plus Manziel's numbers here look the best IMO.  Deep ball is the most important, if you can throw the deep ball well you have the tools to learn to do the rest.

-Signed Josh Freeman

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[Anonymous]

#151584

id take Manziel everytime over Bridgewater.

I like Teddy over Manziel still but the gap isn't that big as people believe.

Manziel"s running ability is the difference maker between the two.

Sure is. Its the difference between a successful pocket passer and a guy who will be constantly injured thinking he can make a play with his feet without realising that the LB'ers are now faster than the DB's he faced in college. The stats show overwhelmingly why Bridgewater is a better passer and better under pressure. And I dont think Carr's issues with pressure can be fixed. Guys who cower from contact at the college level never ever make successful NFL QB's. I am convinced that Carr in any round is a wasted pick.

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[Anonymous]

#151585

Good of this gentlemen to provide the world with the end-all, be-all of QB metrics. Using this data, teams are pretty much guaranteed to get exactly the QB that the report indicates. Win for everyone!

Joke all you want but teams are using this type of data more and more and it does help. The Bucs actually hired a numbers guy recently to do exactly this kind of thing. Just like Pro Days and Combines and Senior Bowls and everything else....it's something you use to confirm what you saw on tape. Like Mayock says, all this other stuff besides tape either confirms your notes or creates a question. When you see these type of stats and it backs up completely what you saw on tape, it's just another layer of confidence in your draft board. Or if you see a number that you completely didn't expect, it might help you go back and catch something you missed.

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[Anonymous]

#151586

plus he rates a zero in the swagger dept.  Manziel a 10.

This, plus Manziel's numbers here look the best IMO.  Deep ball is the most important, if you can throw the deep ball well you have the tools to learn to do the rest.

-Signed Josh Freeman

Nobody can dispute that Freeman had the physical tools, dude just lacked the mental makeup.  Manziel has the ability and also appears to have the drive to be the best which is more important IMO.

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[Anonymous]

#151587

If Manziel did not have super-freak Evans his deep ball numbers would be completely different. That is something that pro scouts will pick up on but message board number crunchers will fail to see. If you ask me JFF is all smoke and mirrors ... he is Josh Freeman circa 2010 or 2012. Take away Evans and he will become Freeman circa 2011 or 2013.

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[Anonymous]

#151588

Yeah…cause he won’t have any good receivers in the NFL. Lol……#reaching

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[Anonymous]

#151589

If Tampa is going down more of a money ball path then even more reason to think they pass on QB.  The metrics dont favor on QB in this draft over what is currently on our roster. 

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[Anonymous]

#151590

I think Glennon’s completion % under pressure was 10.

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[Anonymous]

#151591

Or maybe it was negative 10.

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[Anonymous]

#151592

TB is the guy.  I feel like I've said xbillion.  Get that guy.  Tedford and Arroyo will turn this young man into a MACHINE.*crosses fingers, toes, eyes, arms and legs.*  Let's go!

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[Anonymous]

#151593

Game film...Game film....Game film....

I agree. So how can anyone watch these 15 games and tell me Carr is a solid QB prospect? http://draftbreakdown.com/players/derek-carr/I swear some folks on here have never actually watched him play.

...can't tell much just watching from one camera angle....

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[Anonymous]

#151594

Teddy doesn't have wheels. He is not very elusive in the pocket and he had 164 total rushing yards in three years.

I seem to remember hearing similar things being said of Alex Smith vs. Aaron Rodgers.  Not a leader, can't scramble, etc.  Not saying it's apples to apples, just believe Teddy is being thrown under the bus too much. 

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[Anonymous]

#151595

Teddy doesn't have wheels. He is not very elusive in the pocket and he had 164 total rushing yards in three years.

I seem to remember hearing similar things being said of Alex Smith vs. Aaron Rodgers.  Not a leader, can't scramble, etc.  Not saying it's apples to apples, just believe Teddy is being thrown under the bus too much.

I'm wishing for Bortles or Bridgewater....

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[Anonymous]

#151596

Went to look up 2013 stats. Caught/yards/tds #position ranking in 2014 draftManziels receivers:Mike Evans 69/1394/12 #2Derel Walker 51/818/5 #54Malcome Kennedy 60/658/7 UDFATravis Labhart 51/626/8 #8632 TDs passingInterceptions - 13Rush 465 for 2406Bridgewaters receiversDevante Parker 55/885/12 #7Damian Copeland 58/780/5 #72Eli Rogers 44/536/4 UDFA...Gerald Christian 28/426/4 #14 (TE)Rush 459 for 190925 TDs passingInterceptions 4To me - Bridgewater was more efficient with less of a running game and a  less talented receiving corps.JM vs TB at 7...  No contest (without any other intangibles considered). TB for TB in 2014

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[Anonymous]

#151597

JM vs TB at 7...  No contest

I agree. JM is the obvious pick!  :D

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[Anonymous]

#151598

Teddy B is clearly better. Vanilla Jdud mad.

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[Anonymous]

#151599

plus he rates a zero in the swagger dept.  Manziel a 10.

This, plus Manziel's numbers here look the best IMO.  Deep ball is the most important, if you can throw the deep ball well you have the tools to learn to do the rest.

-Signed Josh Freeman

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are pointing and laughing at you....

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[Anonymous]

#151600

Teddy B is clearly better. Vanilla Jdud mad.

My best, most honest and objective assessment of the Teddy and Johnny is as follows:Both rip defenses. Both put up lots of yards and TDs. TB will rip you apart from the pocket and JFF will with his big play ability and improvising. That's a pretty fair assessment of both. Now we can squabble a bit about what words we'd like to use and some of the characteristics you can't measure. The choice comes to what style of offense you intend to play and who you believe can make his game transition the best. Answer it for yourself. Everyone knows my opinion well. Scrambling QBs can be successful, but at some point to win games over the long term you need to function at a high level in the pocket. I vote for TB, and have since we started talking months ago. I wouldn't be mad at this point with JFF as I do think he would be fun to watch. Either way, as soon as we draft a guy, i'm a fan because he's a buc!

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[Anonymous]

#151601

I’d still be happy as hell if we got JFF….it’d be exciting ….but make no mistake Teddy is the better QB , IMO.

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[Anonymous]

#151602

I'd still be happy as hell if we got JFF....it'd be exciting ....but make no mistake Teddy is the better QB , IMO.

While we are making things up, I guess tb had more defensive competition than manziel did?? Right...

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[Anonymous]

#151603

I'd still be happy as hell if we got JFF....it'd be exciting ....but make no mistake Teddy is the better QB , IMO.

While we are making things up, I guess tb had more defensive competition than manziel did?? Right...

I simply gave my opinion that Teddy is better , how is that making things up?? ....because u mad ?? Hilarious how sensitive the Manzielosexuals are .Take a look at a common opponent like Florida if you want to play the competition card. I'll give you a hint : One beat Florida and one didn't.

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[Anonymous]

#151604

Trentrosexual was funny when you were labeled as such because it sounds like Metro-sexual, so it made sense. It would also work to call a Cowboy fan a Romosexual because it sounds like homosexual. It’s a play on words and thus witty.Manzielosexual is stupid and unimaginative. If you are gonna troll, at least put some fucking effort into you lazy sh!t.

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[Anonymous]

#151605

It was always “trentersexual , you dimwit . Which sounds nothing at all like Metro , in case you are wondering. LOL

trentersexuals...lmaoooooooo!!I argued so hard againt getting this dude....man...so many people wrong.

OOPS !! This is why you should never come at me ....I pwn your dumb ass every time . Read my sig next time you forget it .U mad Manzielosexual ??U mad Donaldsexual ??

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[Anonymous]

#151606

Your troll game is so weak kid. Don’t worry though… Your shadow will be along shortly to “lol” at your dumbass.

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[Anonymous]

#151607

So tell us how Trenter sounds like Metro again , smart guy. LolI wasn't even talking to you and you came at me with this embarrassingly dumb attack...now I'm laughing at you and you want to play the "troll" card ?Bwahahahaha , my god you're stupid.

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[Anonymous]

#151608

This Laurel and Hardy routine is taking up way too much of my head/threadspace.

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[Anonymous]

#151609

Stop being a dumbasstrollersexual.

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[Anonymous]

#151610

“Trenter sounds like Metro everyone . That’s why it’s funny !!” LMAO  !!Just because you made a fool of yourself ....again....doesn't mean I'm trolling you .You tried to attack ME in a thread where I wasn't even talking to you , and you lost. Lost so badly you think you're being trolled afterwards. Freaking Hilarious . Read my sig , dimwit .

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[Anonymous]

#151611

I lost? I am not a troll. Message boards are not a game to me. So there is no winning or losing. That is your pathetic little world. All I did was call you out for thinking you’re clever and witty when the reality is all you are doing is adding sexual to the end of anything and having your shadow LOL at it you freaking moron. One would think you’d be better at this considering all the time and effort you put into it.

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[Anonymous]

#151612

What you are too dumb to get is that that is exactly what makes it funny. Adding sexual to random names is not witty at all , true , but it’s not my concept . It’s Boid’s. ( which by the way you had no issue with and thought was funny  when you weren’t the person being called the random “sexual” )In short : I'm making a mockery , dimwit. You on the other hand are floundering in your own stupidity. Now tell us again how Trenter IS witty because it sounds like Metro .  Bwahahahaha !!

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[Anonymous]

#151613

I lost? I am not a troll. Message boards are not a game to me. So there is no winning or losing. That is your pathetic little world. All I did was call you out for thinking you're clever and witty when the reality is all you are doing is adding sexual to the end of anything and having your shadow LOL at it you freaking moron. One would think you'd be better at this considering all the time and effort you put into it.

Doloris is just a Richard head.  I think we all get that.Not the smartest, not funny at all, and a sheep. Meh.  The majority know this deep down inside.  Loves to point out others errors, whilst he goes about laying rabbit droppings behind him.  LOL!He mad.  He does have a fetish for you though Double J.  He follows you around like some retard.

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[Anonymous]

#151614

That’s why he is Doloris Stan.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaFrcDsU8cA

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[Anonymous]

#151615

Teddy and Johnny really stand out as special…..while Carr stands out in a different way. My support of Bortles in the top 10 is wavering. [img width=600 height=151]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkW9fRGCYAAE8BT.jpg:large[/img]

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[Anonymous]

#151616

So tell me again how Trenter sounds like Metro , dear Manzielosexuals . LMAO....and speaking of fetishes. Boid tried to place me on ignore and could only last 2 days. How obsessed are you with me,  Finky. Tell us.  Why is it so hard for you to live without me?  Lol

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[Anonymous]

#151617

Rotoworld's QB Metrics for the 2nd tier of QBs is out. Sucks there is no Garoppolo. He said he couldn't get every game and didn't want to risk painting an inaccurate picture my only using the 8 games he did have for Garoppolo. :(  Still good stuff though.Tier 1 - http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/out-of-the-box?pg=1Tier 2 - http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46748/349/peshek-qb-metrics-20     [img width=600 height=151]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkW9fRGCYAAE8BT.jpg:large[/img]

Remember these? This year's version is coming out soon. The creator had this to say. Greg Peshek?@NU_GapThrough 12 reg. season games, Marcus Mariota is the the second highest ranking QB ever in my aggregate stats/metrics behind only R. Wilson

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[Anonymous]

#151618

/unzips pants

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[Anonymous]

#151619

Rotoworld's QB Metrics for the 2nd tier of QBs is out. Sucks there is no Garoppolo. He said he couldn't get every game and didn't want to risk painting an inaccurate picture my only using the 8 games he did have for Garoppolo. :(  Still good stuff though.Tier 1 - http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/out-of-the-box?pg=1Tier 2 - http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46748/349/peshek-qb-metrics-20     [img width=600 height=151]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkW9fRGCYAAE8BT.jpg:large[/img]

Remember these? This year's version is coming out soon. The creator had this to say. Greg Peshek?@NU_GapThrough 12 reg. season games, Marcus Mariota is the the second highest ranking QB ever in my aggregate stats/metrics behind only R. Wilson

Cool, I enjoy this guy's stuff. It probably won't change the minds of people believing Mariota is a product of the system, but I find it interesting.

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[Anonymous]

#151620

I love his stuff too. I’m curious to see if any less popular QBs show up well this year.

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[Anonymous]

#151621

Petty?

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