Monday, August 26, 2019

Sapp: DT McCoy 'not even close' to a Bucs legend

This topic contains 66 replies, has 27 voices, and was last updated by  Swash Aug. 18, 2019 at 12:54 pm.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 67 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1202599

    Havok904
    Participant

    Nice is an adjective meaning pleasing; agreeable; delightful; amicable

    That’s not a quality a major quality sought out in Pro Football players.

    Well mannered yes. Nice no.

    You want to be nice, don’t compete..

    Nice guys lose.

    +3
    0
    Rating: +3. From 3 votes.
    Please wait...

    #1202602

    tog
    Participant

    This argument over the semantics of “nice” is silly.

    Like you, I hated that clip of McCoy apologising to Roethlisberger for hitting him “late”.

    But you can’t say McCoy wasn’t dominant. He was PFF”s defensive player of the year I believe and had a couple years where he was the best DT in football.

    McCoy performed on the field. The fact that he was “too nice” and wasn’t a HoF doesn’t change that he’s probably a top 15 All Time Buc. He was better than a number of players on the 2002 team, he just didn’t get to play with that talent.

    +1
    -1
    Rating: 0. From 2 votes.
    Please wait...
    #1202607

    Havok904
    Participant

    Name 3 game winning plays made by Gerald McCoy.

    Anyone?

    +5
    -1
    Rating: +4. From 6 votes.
    Please wait...
    #1202612

    Morgan
    Participant

    This argument over the semantics of “nice” is silly.

    Like you, I hated that clip of McCoy apologising to Roethlisberger for hitting him “late”.

    But you can’t say McCoy wasn’t dominant. He was PFF”s defensive player of the year I believe and had a couple years where he was the best DT in football.

    McCoy performed on the field. The fact that he was “too nice” and wasn’t a HoF doesn’t change that he’s probably a top 15 All Time Buc. He was better than a number of players on the 2002 team, he just didn’t get to play with that talent.

    Third all-time in sacks for the team –for really bad teams with no help around him.

    +1
    -4
    Rating: -3. From 5 votes.
    Please wait...

    -------------------------------------------
    Following the Bucs since 1981

    #1202625

    RudeGuy
    Participant

    This argument over the semantics of “nice” is silly.

    Like you, I hated that clip of McCoy apologising to Roethlisberger for hitting him “late”.

    But you can’t say McCoy wasn’t dominant. He was PFF”s defensive player of the year I believe and had a couple years where he was the best DT in football.

    McCoy performed on the field. The fact that he was “too nice” and wasn’t a HoF doesn’t change that he’s probably a top 15 All Time Buc. He was better than a number of players on the 2002 team, he just didn’t get to play with that talent.

    Third all-time in sacks for the team –for really bad teams with no help around him.

    He passed Logan (NFL started keeping stats on sacks in 1982), Cullpepper (5 seasons with Bucs), Ahanotu (6th Rd pick). What a mountain he had to climb. Nice try!

    +6
    0
    Rating: +6. From 6 votes.
    Please wait...
    #1202628

    JC5100
    Participant

    This argument over the semantics of “nice” is silly.

    Like you, I hated that clip of McCoy apologising to Roethlisberger for hitting him “late”.

    But you can’t say McCoy wasn’t dominant. He was PFF”s defensive player of the year I believe and had a couple years where he was the best DT in football.

    McCoy performed on the field. The fact that he was “too nice” and wasn’t a HoF doesn’t change that he’s probably a top 15 All Time Buc. He was better than a number of players on the 2002 team, he just didn’t get to play with that talent.

    He also made the PFF Hall of Fame for a game in which we blew an 11 point 4th qtr lead. I graded that game for him using their method. He had an astronomical grade until the middle of the 4th when he completely crumbled. We might as well been playing with 10.

    Players like Brian Kelly, Shelton Quarles, Donnie Abraham and Mike Washington are definately better Buccaneers than McCoy.

    +2
    0
    Rating: +2. From 2 votes.
    Please wait...
    #1202631

    “Nice guys finish last”, he might want to rethink that. He played alongside Brooks, Dunn, Barber, Brad Johnson, Alstott, Lynch and so on. Except for Sapp, the whole team was a bunch of nice guys. Apparently that didn’t stop them from finishing first.

    Brooks wasn’t nice if you didn’t perform. Mr. Derrick Brooks was a pro’s pro.

    Dunn was all business on the field. If you were a soft going up the middle he wouldn’t tolerate it. Dunn was fearless.

    Alstott on the field was a wrecking ball.

    Lynch knocked out his own brother in law on the field.

    None of these players were nice guys on the field.

    Disagree.

    Brooks, Lynch, Alstott, Dunn, Barber held people accountable and weren’t obnoxious. They were players with good character. They demonstrated good sportsmanship. They’d beat you then shake your hand when all was said and done. Sapp on the other hand would spit in his hand and shake his opponents or threatened to beat their asses after the game was done. He was a thug on and off the field – and continues to be. He got fired from his NFL commentator job because he’s not a nice guy, hits and abuses women. Embarrassed the franchise.

    He was fired the week before the Super Bowl and it was because he was arrested for trying to pick up a prostitute. Not for being a thug. Inside the NFL dropped him for that reason too.

    +1
    0
    Rating: +1. From 1 vote.
    Please wait...
    #1202632

    This argument over the semantics of “nice” is silly.

    Like you, I hated that clip of McCoy apologising to Roethlisberger for hitting him “late”.

    But you can’t say McCoy wasn’t dominant. He was PFF”s defensive player of the year I believe and had a couple years where he was the best DT in football.

    McCoy performed on the field. The fact that he was “too nice” and wasn’t a HoF doesn’t change that he’s probably a top 15 All Time Buc. He was better than a number of players on the 2002 team, he just didn’t get to play with that talent.

    Funny how Khalil Mack was a force of nature on the Raiders and when they traded him we found out how toothless they were on defense. Hmm, how did he excellent on that talentless defense? No, I’ll wait for how this is different.

    +1
    0
    Rating: +1. From 1 vote.
    Please wait...
    #1202634

    DonkeyHunter
    Participant

    This argument over the semantics of “nice” is silly.

    Like you, I hated that clip of McCoy apologising to Roethlisberger for hitting him “late”.

    But you can’t say McCoy wasn’t dominant. He was PFF”s defensive player of the year I believe and had a couple years where he was the best DT in football.

    McCoy performed on the field. The fact that he was “too nice” and wasn’t a HoF doesn’t change that he’s probably a top 15 All Time Buc. He was better than a number of players on the 2002 team, he just didn’t get to play with that talent.

    Funny how Aaron Donald was a force of nature on the Raiders and when they traded him we found out how toothless they were on defense. Hmm, how did he excellent on that talentless defense? No, I’ll wait for how this is different.

    Aaron Donald played for the Raiders?

    Are you referring to Mack?

    0
    -1
    Rating: -1. From 1 vote.
    Please wait...
    #1202636

    Also Sapp missed 10 games his entire career. McCoy missed 21 already. I will admit our record is better when he makes a sack than when he doesn’t.  Our win pct when McCoy makes a sack or shares a sack is .416 far better than games he played and didn’t record a sack at .381…..wait a second. Those still average 6 wins per season. Nope, not a legend. As Sapp says a good player, but that would be like a 6.7 WAR score in baseball.

    +1
    0
    Rating: +1. From 1 vote.
    Please wait...
    #1202637

    Havok904
    Participant

    But you can’t say McCoy wasn’t dominant. He was PFF”s defensive player of the year I believe and had a couple years where he was the best DT in football.
    —-
    No he wasn’t dominate.

    He never took over a game. The Bucs purposely schemed their defense to get him 1 on 1s, but since he lacked the strength and never developed any hand techniques, he relied on one thing. And that was getting off the snap and shooting the gap. Even if he succeeded in doing so, in a lot of instances, he either overran the pocket or the RB would side step him and run through the gap in line in which he was responsible.

    If he was unsuccessful in shooting the gap he couldn’t get off the block using his hands and strength and that usually resulted in him being pushed out of the play or getting pancaked. He was never known for his strength. He only managed 23 reps at 225lb. at his combine.

    Though his pre-draft profiles lauded his quickness and his ability to rush the passer and his disruptive capabilities in the opponent’s backfield, I think Walterfootball nailed his weaknesses to tee:

    “Weaknesses:
    Lacks some bulk to be a two-gap defensive tackle
    Not a fit for every scheme
    Not an elite run defender
    Struggles against massive offensive linemen against run
    Not overly powerful

    When McCoy first entered the league he quickness was sort of a novelty. But as the league caught on to him, he became less and less effective.

    +4
    0
    Rating: +4. From 4 votes.
    Please wait...
    #1202638

    This argument over the semantics of “nice” is silly.

    Like you, I hated that clip of McCoy apologising to Roethlisberger for hitting him “late”.

    But you can’t say McCoy wasn’t dominant. He was PFF”s defensive player of the year I believe and had a couple years where he was the best DT in football.

    McCoy performed on the field. The fact that he was “too nice” and wasn’t a HoF doesn’t change that he’s probably a top 15 All Time Buc. He was better than a number of players on the 2002 team, he just didn’t get to play with that talent.

    Funny how Aaron Donald was a force of nature on the Raiders and when they traded him we found out how toothless they were on defense. Hmm, how did he excellent on that talentless defense? No, I’ll wait for how this is different.

    Aaron Donald played for the Raiders?

    Are you referring to Mack?

    You are 100 pct correct and it’s late for me. My apologies. Just getting annoyed at all the McCoy love when the guy isn’t even on our team anymore. Corrected.

    +2
    0
    Rating: +2. From 2 votes.
    Please wait...
    #1202642

    X
    Participant

    Mack was voted the best linebacker in the NFL. And the best defensive end.

     

    +1
    0
    Rating: +1. From 1 vote.
    Please wait...
    #1202651

    Biggs3535
    Participant

    Name 3 game winning plays made by Gerald McCoy.

    Anyone?

    Name three game winning plays any DT has made.  Hell, use Aaron Donald  He’s the best defensive lineman since Reggie White.  Show me all of his “game winning” plays.  He has a few, but not many.

    Why people continue to make this horrible argument, I’ll never know.

    +1
    -2
    Rating: -1. From 3 votes.
    Please wait...
    #1202658

    tog
    Participant

    “Weaknesses:
    Lacks some bulk to be a two-gap defensive tackle
    Not a fit for every scheme
    Not an elite run defender
    Struggles against massive offensive linemen against run
    Not overly powerful”

    Lol. So you’re argument is he wasn’t good enough against the run?

    Sure. Who gives a shit?

    https://www.footballoutsiders.com/every-play-counts/2007/every-play-counts-twilight-warren-sapp

    And I quote:

    Let’s just come right out and say it: Warren Sapp is horrible against the run.

    That’s at the end of Sapp’s career of course. But he was always a better pass rusher than a run defender.

    And at least last year, McCoy statistically did well against the run (see the FO Primer I posted).

    Oh, and there’s also Sapp’s quote from less than 2 years ago:

    If you have a lead dog and if it’s not GMC – that’s what I call Gerald, like a big wide-body GMC – you put the Volkswagens and all the rest of them around him and you allow him to work. You’ve got five one-on-ones and you designate Robert Ayers as the one with the one-and-ones? Gerald’s the better player. What are we doing here?

    Wasting isn’t even the word. Gerald has more sacks since he came into the league than any other defensive tackle. Tell me why Robert Ayers, who’s a defensive end, now has the free reign to where he wants to go and you got to get out of his way?

    To have that ‘Gerald’ game, he needs to be released, to be told that you are the man, you are the man that drives this, it starts up front. It’s frustrating to me because I know how good of a kid he is and how much he wants to help this football team. But for some reason, the D coordinator and the D line coach don’t feel that he’s that guy. For some reason, they haven’t set him up, they haven’t made him the lead dog.

    0
    -1
    Rating: -1. From 1 vote.
    Please wait...
Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 67 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.