I know many draft niks and fans are clamoring for the Bucs to draft a quarterback if the team deems that player worthy of a high draft pick. But what I have not heard as the basis of anyone’s argument is the degree of difficulty that the current group of quarterback prospects were under from a positional requirement for the offenses they operated. Case in point when pundits talk about Teddy Bridgewater – to me is his degree of difficulty in operating the Louisville offense – it was a more balanced pro style attack the required hm to read opposing defenses, anticipate and deliver the football while he maneuvered within the confines of the pocket to elude rushers.Now I know everyone likes Johnny Manziel for his flair for the dramatics and his ability to make plays when things breakdown around him - but when I compare his degree of difficulty in the Texas A&M offense it pales in comparison - the offense did not ask Manziel to make pro style reads and was more sandlotish. This to me is a steep climb to overcome. And, part of my reasoning why I am not sold of Manziel and think Bridgewater is a better prospect at this point and is viewed as more pro ready than any of the other QB prospects.
I believe in drafting any QB before spot 16 is a huge reach. I believe only Manziel is a proven 1st rounder and he is still either a big hit or a dud. The rest are huge risks because they aren’t 1st rounder’s. All the other projected 1st rounders require a year training or two of sitting and watching. I do understand that there are teams that have no QB at all and they will have to reach; we are not in that position.
Yucs, I mostly agree with your comments, but I think that’s increasingly going to be par for the course – NCAA HC aren’t going to keep running “pro-style” offenses just to keep the draft pipeline going. Successful scouting is going to demand correctly identifying the traits necessary to succeed in the NFL and figuring out what is coachable and what is not. I'm less concerned with Manziel, though than guys like Carr and Garrapolo in terms of the offense.
Booker – I agree for the most part about the collegiate game moving away from “pro-style” offenses – however, when scouting quarterbacks – it should be easier for scouts to scout those that actually were asked to command a more “pro-style” offense – I tend to lean in the line that says or thinks it is harder for quarterbacks to adjust to the complexities of NFL defenses if they are always checking with the sidelines to call a play or an audible during games – after the initial set on defense – many of these QB’s are not even having to decipher the defensive shell – as their head coaches are doing the majority of the internal work for them and these kids are just chucking it.Which is why so many of the quarterbacks are not pro ready and actually need to sit for a year or two - to grasp the mental aspect of the pro game - which further compounds the evaluation process.
Excellent and very interesting topic Yuccaneers, and you make some thoughtful points,I have watched every snap of Bridgewater's college career and i have watched every snap of Manziel's career (because i am sad and manically obsessed with the draft).I believe that Teddy Bridgewater has everything a team could want to be a very good starting QB in this league. I do not think Manziel's game will translate as well to long-term success at the next level.BUT . . . . . . for those who disagree with me (yes, Mike Mayock) and prefer the talents of Manziel to Bridgewater, while i respect your opinions, here is two things that i will absolutely guarantee for you . . . 1. Teddy Bridgewater is going to make every single effort to do absolutely everything he can to be the best possible QB that he can be. He will absolutely work his ass off. He is the epitome of a "high character" individual who will eat, sleep and breathe football. Succeed or fail, it will NOT be for a lack of dedication.2. Johnny Manziel will almost certainly not "work his ass off', in my opinion. I believe he loves playing football, but i do not believe he is willing to do everything he can to maximise his chances of success. I believe that above all, he enjoys the limelight and the attention and hype that brings. Faced with a choice of spending hours and hours studying film or spending the night at a party with lots of beautiful women, i know which one i'm betting on him choosing
The first thing I thought when draft/Manziel talk started was not the size, off-field judgement, etc… it was that the bulk of his highlight reel plays appeared to be poorly thrown or just jump balls. He’s exciting but I totally agree with Yucc’s point re: Bridgewater. You can see him making reads, manipulating coverage, making the right decision; same when you watch any of these pre-draft shows that have him going on the board. He appears to understand the game really well and spits out concepts. I seriously doubt Manziel can do that at the same level.
He's exciting but I totally agree with Yucc's point re: Bridgewater. You can see him making reads, manipulating coverage, making the right decision; same when you watch any of these pre-draft shows that have him going on the board. He appears to understand the game really well and spits out concepts. I seriously doubt Manziel can do that at the same level.
Well that's because he can't do it to the same level, nor has he really been asked to. That's what I mean by projecting college - pros being more difficult. You have to identify traits and you need to have a good sense of work habits. Personally, I'm uncomfortable making judgments about work habits of players based on media reports - a) you don't typically get the full story, and there's no continuity of narrative - in other words, if a guy did X in 2002, is he still doing X in 2003? A year can make a big difference when you are talking about 20 - 22 year old young men; b) there are lots of full-blown lies being told in the spring; c) there are a lot of things that aren't well publicized - e.g., did you know that Derek Carr couldn't move his left elbow for the 3 weeks leading up to the USC game? That's why I'm not as down on Clowney as some guys on these boards. I don't know the truth about how hard he works. I do know that he worked his ass off at his pro day while other players there wilted, and I know from watching the videos of him at Draft Breakdown that he played much harder than some of the over-the-top commentary would suggest. But while I don't feel comfortable getting into issues like mentality, work-habits, etc. teams find this information out.
Completely agree – don’t forget that Jeff Tedfords offense is supposedly extremely difficult.Who do you trust to have their head in the playbook? If we can trade back from 1-7, grab an extra pick or two AND still get Teddy Bridgewater...that is my ideal first day of the draft.
I don’t know. Mike Mayock doesn’t seem to be the type of analyst who would drop a QB this late in the off-season from 1st to a tie for 5th for an unsubstantiated reason. Mayock does admit his reasoning is the Pro day. However, by most accounts Bridgewater didn’t just look mediocre, instead he looked really, really bad. I saw some of the throws and I can’t imagine how they could be that bad. No one in their right mind is questioning whether he looked good on the Cardinals’ tape. So, why was his college tape so good, but his pro day so bad? Pressure? Understandable. Not wearing a glove which he normally would be wearing? Really? I could see discounting a “good” pro day, but an awful one? Don’t you have to wonder if he’s going to look this bad during your practices…for the next 5 years? Personally, I’d have to take it into consideration and not draft this guy early at all. But all it takes is one team. As far as Manziel not being as "pro ready" as Bridgewater, that may or may not be true, but as far as the Bucs are concerned, is that really going to be a deciding factor? I'm sure the plan is to play Josh Mckown as long and as far as he will take them, and therefore, barring injury, any new Buc QB should be on the sideline for at least a year and a half, right? on a sidenote, always enjoy your posts, bucjoe , especially at draft time (viva la running game!)
I don't know. Mike Mayock doesn't seem to be the type of analyst who would drop a QB this late in the off-season from 1st to a tie for 5th for an unsubstantiated reason. Mayock does admit his reasoning is the Pro day. However, by most accounts Bridgewater didn't just look mediocre, instead he looked really, really bad. I saw some of the throws and I can't imagine how they could be that bad. No one in their right mind is questioning whether he looked good on the Cardinals' tape. So, why was his college tape so good, but his pro day so bad? Pressure? Understandable. Not wearing a glove which he normally would be wearing? Really? I could see discounting a "good" pro day, but an awful one? Don't you have to wonder if he's going to look this bad during your practices...for the next 5 years? Personally, I'd have to take it into consideration and not draft this guy early at all. But all it takes is one team.
Sweep, if you've heard Mayock talk about it, I think he's legitimately struggling with it. He's said he knows that the tape looked great. I don't know why he botched the pro day, but I can't understand how it possibly can repudiate 3 years of excellent tape. I'd point out that Drew Brees also had a terrible - not mediocre, terrible - pro day. Bounced passes, missed guys badly, etc.
Bridgewater, Brees, and Foles, reportedly all had bad pro days, but I can’t be fair without seeing the entire pro day of each. I’ve seen a little of Foles’. But from the mind boggling, half dozen or more throws I saw of Bridgewater, like I said, I wouldn’t take him early. Kid may make me eat crow and become an all pro, but if my job as GM depends on it, I’m waiting a while before I’d select him. Others disagree and that’s fine. Personally, I like Aaron Murray over Bridgewater. Speaking of pro offense “ready”, reading defenses, going through progressions, and facing the toughest competition, strong leadership, Murray fits that bill imo. He really does remind me of Brees.
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