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    • kbl117

      Participant
      Post count: 45

      Was just wondering how many others think think that allowing Giles and Gruber cheapens the honor for guys like Sapp, Brooks, and Selmon. Also seems that it takes away from the significance of having a ring of honor, and probably garners laughs from packer/cowboy/insert-any-org.-with-any-historic-significance fans who see the “historically great players” in Tampas ROH. Maybe its just me. Theres plenty of ‘very good’ former Bucs who shoild be honored, just not with the ring of honor.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      Gruber should be in there for sure.  Giles?    He was on the Bucs staff at the time so they threw him a bone.  He was a great TE, but there were other guys I thought should have gone in ahead of him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      What was Giles doing for the Bucs in 2011?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 17

      Every year we do the ring of honor thing I always say:”This is the year for Hardy Nickerson” and I’m wrong every year.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      Gotta love Hardy.  But I think Wilder, Alstott, Lynch, Barber and Gruden should go in before him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2015

      Gruber certainly qualifies in my eyes.  I don't care what fans of other teams think, I only know I watched that man toil away with personal greatness masked by team failures.  Honoring him with a spot in the ring of honor, is the least a franchise and fan base could offer a man who consistently produced at an All Pro level, but was ignored by the nation for a lack of a supporting cast.  Giles was also very good, but was a bit of a surprise to me.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2015

      Gotta love Hardy.  But I think Wilder, Alstott, Lynch, Barber and Gruden should go in before him.

      I think Hardy should go in before those guys, not because of their contributions, but strictly because of sequence.  I know Sapp and Brooks jumped the line, but their inductions into the Hall of Fame kind of demanded it.On a side note- I don't blame Hardy for chasing the money, But if he had stayed I honestly think he might have had a shot at the Hall himself.  Guess we'll never know.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      Wilder came before Hardy in sequence.  Doug Williams should also be in there (in my opinion).

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      What was Giles doing for the Bucs in 2011?

      He was a rib taster at Lee Roy Selmon's restaurant.  Still is. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2015

      Wilder came before Hardy in sequence.  Doug Williams should also be in there (in my opinion).

      My apologies, I somehow, skipped over Wilder's name there, yes he would obviously precede Hardy.  I'm not as high on Williams, but would understand his inclusion.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 17

      Wilder came before Hardy in sequence.  Doug Williams should also be in there (in my opinion).

      Williams absolutely.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1176

      I have no problem with either one being in the ROH. They both served the team well at a very high level.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      If you weren’t a fan before 1997, you wouldn’t understand why they are there.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      What was Giles doing for the Bucs in 2011?

      He was a rib taster at Lee Roy Selmon's restaurant.  Still is.

      LOL! Well consider me learned. I'm sure that's what got him in....the rib tasting. Java's usually pretty lame in his attempts at humor but this one was funny.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Also seems that it takes away from the significance of having a ring of honor, and probably garners laughs from packer/cowboy/insert-any-org.-with-any-historic-significance fans who see the "historically great players" in Tampas ROH. Maybe its just me.

      Every team has players in their teams "ring of honor" that carry zero significance to the common fan. Do you know who Cliff Harris or Gene Mingo is?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2015

      Also seems that it takes away from the significance of having a ring of honor, and probably garners laughs from packer/cowboy/insert-any-org.-with-any-historic-significance fans who see the "historically great players" in Tampas ROH. Maybe its just me.

      Every team has players in their teams "ring of honor" that carry zero significance to the common fan. Do you know who Cliff Harris or Gene Mingo is?

      My thoughts exactly...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      Also seems that it takes away from the significance of having a ring of honor, and probably garners laughs from packer/cowboy/insert-any-org.-with-any-historic-significance fans who see the "historically great players" in Tampas ROH. Maybe its just me.

      Every team has players in their teams "ring of honor" that carry zero significance to the common fan. Do you know who Cliff Harris or Gene Mingo is?

      I would hope that everyone knows who Cliff Harris is.  Total baller for the Cowboys back in the day.  Dominant hitter.Gene Mingo I didn't know, but looked him up and it seems he's only in their ring of honor because he's black.  "First" black to be a kicker.  It's no wonder hardly anyone knows who he is - it seems he wasn't that great.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      Also seems that it takes away from the significance of having a ring of honor, and probably garners laughs from packer/cowboy/insert-any-org.-with-any-historic-significance fans who see the "historically great players" in Tampas ROH. Maybe its just me.

      Every team has players in their teams "ring of honor" that carry zero significance to the common fan. Do you know who Cliff Harris or Gene Mingo is?

      I would hope that everyone knows who Cliff Harris is.  Total baller for the Cowboys back in the day.  Dominant hitter.Gene Mingo I didn't know, but looked him up and it seems he's only in their ring of honor because he's black.  "First" black to be a kicker.  It's no wonder hardly anyone knows who he is - it seems he wasn't that great.

      Led the AFL in scoring twice. Very versatile. Much more than that.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1125

      Kickers usually do lead the NFL in scoring.  The fact that he only did it twice indicates he wasn’t even a great kicker.  He was a bit of an oddity though because of his also playing running back so he got like 4 TDs a year as a running back the 2 times he lead the nfl in scoring.  Here are the top scorers all time in the NFL.  They are all kickers.  But he isn't top 25.    The NFL scoring leader the last 2 years and 3 out of the last 6 is Stephen Gostkowski.    I wouldn't rate him as any super stud.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_career_scoring_leadersThe fact that the Broncos started putting people into their Bronco hall of fame in 1984 and Mingo didn't get in until 2014 says a lot about how relatively trivial he was compared to other Broncos.  It's almost like the Bucs putting Martin Gramatica into their Ring of Honor.Elam was the best Broncos kicker.  I wonder if he will get elected into their hall of fame?I won't say that Mingo shouldn't be in there, because he's probably as deserving as a Jimmie Giles (although I'm sure Giles was a better tight end than Mingo was a running back).  Give me Wilder over both of them.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      Kickers usually do lead the NFL in scoring.  The fact that he only did it twice indicates he wasn't even a great kicker.  He was a bit of an oddity though because of his also playing running back so he got like 4 TDs a year as a running back the 2 times he lead the nfl in scoring.  Here are the top scorers all time in the NFL.  They are all kickers.  But he isn't top 25.    The NFL scoring leader the last 2 years and 3 out of the last 6 is Stephen Gostkowski.    I wouldn't rate him as any super stud.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_career_scoring_leadersThe fact that the Broncos started putting people into their Bronco hall of fame in 1984 and Mingo didn't get in until 2014 says a lot about how relatively trivial he was compared to other Broncos.  It's almost like the Bucs putting Martin Gramatica into their Ring of Honor.Elam was the best Broncos kicker.  I wonder if he will get elected into their hall of fame?I won't say that Mingo shouldn't be in there, because he's probably as deserving as a Jimmie Giles (although I'm sure Giles was a better tight end than Mingo was a running back).  Give me Wilder over both of them.

      You’re a Broncos fan now? How about letting them worry about their ring of honor?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1385

      If you weren't a fan before 1997, you wouldn't understand why they are there.

      +1

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    • gobucs123

      Participant
      Post count: 569

      Giles was a little before my time so I can’t comment , I was like 5 years old at the time ,  but anyone who thinks Paul Gruber cheapens the ring never watched him play. Dude was a stone wall.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      Giles was before my time as a Buc fan so I have no opinion on him but Gruber definitely deserves it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9

      Early Buc players who should join Giles and Gruber in the ring of honor should include, IMHO –James Wilder (still holds the NFL record for touches in a season - 492 - 407 carries and 85 receptions in 1984) - this record will probably never be brokenRichard "Batman" Wood (a tackling machine who had 18 tackles in the 79 NFC Championship)Doug Williams - a QB with heart - the team would not have collapsed in 83 had Culverhouse not been so cheap.And Giles and Gruber both deserve it - Giles was arguably the best TE in the league during his day, next to Winslow and Gruber is the best OL the Bucs have ever had.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      If Gruber had played for the Cowboys or 49ers he would be in the HOF.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      If you weren't a fan before 1997, you wouldn't understand why they are there.

      +1And if you were, you do. It also varies based on what you see as the purpose of the ROH

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      If you weren't a fan before 1997, you wouldn't understand why they are there.

      +1And if you were, you do. It also varies based on what you see as the purpose of the ROH

      That last line really is at the crux of this argument. Well said.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      I have more of a problem with McKay being on the Ring than I do with Giles or Gruber…

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2015

      Giles was a little before my time so I can't comment , I was like 5 years old at the time ,  but anyone who thinks Paul Gruber cheapens the ring never watched him play. Dude was a stone wall.

      Absolutely...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2015

      If Gruber had played for the Cowboys or 49ers he would be in the HOF.

      Yes, he was a perennial All Pro in terms of performance.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 367

       Bucs ring of honor should have no members pre-1996 sans McKay and Selmon

      Seriously? You do know that 3 years after being the worst team in the history of the NFL, they lost 0-9 to the Rams in the NFC Championship game? It takes good players to accomplish that feat.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1091

      Not sure why such a  topic would come up…however to state that having Giles and Gruber in the Ring of Honor cheapens it for players such as Selmon, Sapp and Brooks is looking at it from a  national perspective as you single out the only three players in the Hall of Fame and not from the standpoint of what the players did to help the team. Gruber is still to this day the best offensive linemen the team has ever had and the same goes for Giles at the tight end position.The Ring of Honor is about what the players did for the Bucs and not if they revolutionized the game or the way they changed or vaunted the game to new heights...but how they preformed while wearing Buccaneer uniforms. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 367

      Great post Yucc!!!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      Great post Yucc!!!!

      Totally agree.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Not sure why such a  topic would come up...however to state that having Giles and Gruber in the Ring of Honor cheapens it for players such as Selmon, Sapp and Brooks is looking at it from a  national perspective as you single out the only three players in the Hall of Fame and not from the standpoint of what the players did to help the team. Gruber is still to this day the best offensive linemen the team has ever had and the same goes for Giles at the tight end position.The Ring of Honor is about what the players did for the Bucs and not if they revolutionized the game or the way they changed or vaunted the game to new heights...but how they preformed while wearing Buccaneer uniforms.

      School the youngins, Yucc!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1550

      Giles was an excellent football player way before his time. He made Doug Williams and if it wasn’t for the godawful quarterback play after Williams was let go, he would have had Hall-of-fame numbers. Anyone who questions Gruber obviously hasn’t been a fan pre-Pewter Power.He absolutely deserves to be up there. As to who deserves to go next, I still say James Wilder, Sr. deserves a place on that Ring of Honor. If he played for any other team in the league he would have been regarded as one of the best running backs in the history of the game.Doug Williams was an average quarterback for the Buccaneers. If we're rewarding players for what they did with other teams, then Steve Young and Trent Dilfer deserve places on the Ring of Honor.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      No & No.

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    • brycen54

      Participant
      Post count: 636

      If the Ring of Honor is about what the players did for the Bucs, then Williams doesn't belong there.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 367

      If the Ring of Honor is about what the players did for the Bucs, then Williams doesn't belong there.

      I would agree with you if not for this statement. “The Bucs, who had never been to the playoffs before Williams arrived, went to the playoffs three times in four years and played in the 1979 NFC Championship Game.”

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2015

      If the Ring of Honor is about what the players did for the Bucs, then Williams doesn't belong there.

      I would agree with you if not for this statement. "The Bucs, who had never been to the playoffs before Williams arrived, went to the playoffs three times in four years and played in the 1979 NFC Championship Game."

      In fairness, that sounds a lot less impressive, when you consider they entered the league in 76.

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