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    • Scott Reynolds

      Keymaster
      Post count: 2368

      https://www.pewterreport.com/articles/srs-fab-5-last-year-a-fiasco-for-banks-verner-why-couldnt-bucs-d-stop-the-slant/

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Wow. This is a good one. A lot of info.So, from what I'm understanding, smith didnt have a gameplan every week, just a keep the lid on approach every game.And then, the ego-driven (stoic) numbskull benches his two best corners?Lol, no wonder why people think he was purposefully tankng.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      Everything I keep hearing about Lovie, he was more interested in getting his kids experience and “resume bullets” then he was winning football games.  Then he tries to blame the players and lies to the fans or treats us like we are stupid and can’t see the truth.  What a total douche bag of a head coach.  Good riddance.On the flip side, I really like the idea of taking Coleman.  I would love to see a high powered offense in Tampa.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 206

      “The Fiasco” perfectly summarizes Lovie Smith’s Tenure.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      Full of information!  Good close out to the Lovie nonsense.Best part for me - Banks description of the new defense...“I think it’s a great scheme,” Banks said. “I’m excited about it. It’s like my rookie year with Coach Schiano. It was a fun out there. Coach Schiano was sending blitzes every which way and the quarterback doesn’t have time to think about it and they just throw the ball to you. I’m excited to not just sit out there, but get out there and compete for the ball. With this new defense the ball is going to have to come out quick. The quarterback can’t just sit back there and hold the ball and pick us apart. I’m excited. I think it’s going to be a great year and we’re going to have a lot of fun.”

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      Great Fab 5. You can almost feel the new energy!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2445

      Its actually a big sigh of relief hearing about Verners explanation on why we were giving up so many slants. I mean you could see it in the scheme but this was great validation that last years secondary problems, and the reason teams like referenced in that article who diced us up with short slant routes all day long, were direct result of Lovie Smith’s philosophies. This gives me even greater confidence that were back to having to good corners on the roster in Banks and Verner, and not only that but now we added Grimes. Not Expecting that Minnesota guy to be a stud but im thinking you can take Hargreaves off the board for us at pick 9. All about that Pass rush right now. I wouldnt rule out a surprise offensive weapon help though. Corey Coleman as the dark horse Candidate.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1110

      Before you knock Schiano’s defense in 2013, understand that Banks had three interceptions as a rookie, Bucs Pro Bowl defensive tackle Gerald McCoy had a career-high 9.5 sacks, linebacker Lavonte David was an All-Pro with his best statistical season, recording career highs in pass breakups (10), sacks (seven) and interceptions (five), in addition to two forced fumbles and a fumble recovery. The Bucs also had a Pro Bowl cornerback in Darrelle Revis in 2013 before the Bucs switched to the Tampa 2.Schiano’s defense produced 21 interceptions in 2013 with his secondary producing 12 picks, in addition to 73 pass breakups with 27 coming from cornerbacks and 18 from the safeties. Those are numbers that Smith wish his defense produced against the pass.Football Outsiders ranked Schiano's 2013 defense 8th in the NFL.  Surely no one would be ignorant enough to knock that.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1637

      I haven’t read the article yet, or any of the above comments. But just reading the title – I can’t wait to read it now haha.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2630

      Good quotes and info. Clearly, Verner and Banks weren’t fans of Lovie and I can’t blame them. Really excited to see how they look in a new scheme.On another note, I'm not so sure why people think we can definitely draft BPA now. As it was before the off-season, DE is still clearly this team's biggest need. I'm not sure if people have too high of expectations for Ayers or something, but this guy is definitely not going to solve our pass rushing problems. Sure, he's a decent player, but I don't think he's much more than that. I mean, just take a look into him. The guy is already 31 and has never reached 10 sacks. Hell, before last year, he never even had 6 sacks in a season.Just not really sure why Ayers should be changing our draft plans and allow us to not take a DE early on. IMO, we NEED to take a DE with one of our first 2 picks.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 416

      Why couldn’t they stop the slants? They need to shade and play the fade. Trust their technique. If your technique is to take away the slant, don’t over play it and vice versa on the fade. These guys don’t trust their technique and over or underplay everything worrying about the other so they don’t cover any! It is like paralysis from analysis.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2630

      Before you knock Schiano’s defense in 2013, understand that Banks had three interceptions as a rookie, Bucs Pro Bowl defensive tackle Gerald McCoy had a career-high 9.5 sacks, linebacker Lavonte David was an All-Pro with his best statistical season, recording career highs in pass breakups (10), sacks (seven) and interceptions (five), in addition to two forced fumbles and a fumble recovery. The Bucs also had a Pro Bowl cornerback in Darrelle Revis in 2013 before the Bucs switched to the Tampa 2.Schiano’s defense produced 21 interceptions in 2013 with his secondary producing 12 picks, in addition to 73 pass breakups with 27 coming from cornerbacks and 18 from the safeties. Those are numbers that Smith wish his defense produced against the pass.Football Outsiders ranked Schiano's 2013 defense 8th in the NFL.  Surely no one would be ignorant enough to knock that.

      The main reason Lovie and Schiano got fired (and both deserved to be fired) was because of their stubbornness. I LOVE that Koetter seems to adapt to his player's strengths and actually has an open mind. So sick of these stubborn coaches who try to fit a square peg in a round hole.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      I am having a very difficult time conceptualizing how Lovie Smith’s defense was supposed to function.  Outside leverage the corner backs,  but then have them play so far off that they literally give up every “move the sticks” route.  In or out breaking, didn’t seem to matter. Very little adjustment to situation or personnel.  It really pisses me off that we spent two years totally readjusting the defensive roster trying to make that failed scheme work. How many people here were saying that it just needed more time?  3 seperate meeting rooms for the defensive backs?  The more we find out, the more crystal clear it is that he should have been fired after his disastrous first season. He was given significantly more time than his competency warranted.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      I’m so glad I was able to read this before going to work this morning. I feel so much better about the defense this upcoming season. Lovie was trying to run his pass coverage as it had been run years ago before all the rule changes to protect the receivers. Back in the day you could funnel everything inside and Lynch would take your head off.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      I am having a very difficult time conceptualizing how Lovie Smith's defense was supposed to function.  Outside leverage the corner backs,  but then have them play so far off that they literally give up every "move the sticks" route.  In or out breaking, didn't seem to matter. Very little adjustment to situation or personnel.  It really pisses me off that we spent two years totally readjusting the defensive roster trying to make that failed scheme work. How many people here were saying that it just needed more time?  3 seperate meeting rooms for the defensive backs?  The more we find out, the more crystal clear it is that he should have been fired after his disastrous first season. He was given significantly more time than his competency warranted.

      +1 I’m infuriated by fans who don’t watch the team often when they say he should’ve been given more time. It’s like giving an arsonist more matches.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      I am having a very difficult time conceptualizing how Lovie Smith's defense was supposed to function.  Outside leverage the corner backs,  but then have them play so far off that they literally give up every "move the sticks" route.  In or out breaking, didn't seem to matter. Very little adjustment to situation or personnel.  It really pisses me off that we spent two years totally readjusting the defensive roster trying to make that failed scheme work. How many people here were saying that it just needed more time?  3 seperate meeting rooms for the defensive backs?  The more we find out, the more crystal clear it is that he should have been fired after his disastrous first season. He was given significantly more time than his competency warranted.

      +1 I'm infuriated by fans who don't watch the team often when they say he should've been given more time. It's like giving an arsonist more matches.

      I said around here, but it's really not the fans. We were talking about all this stuff, there were really only a few people defending Lovie on this forum. What upsets me is how badly our media apparatus failed us. The people who cover this sport professionally should have been asking pointed questions for a very long time and pushing much harder on the "we're going to get that fixed" answers they were getting after 20+ games. They moved into the offseason not even questioning his return.  I think part of it is none of the people who cover the Buccaneers for us understand football as well as dozens of fans who post here strictly for enjoyment. The people who cover the sport for a living, and have for decades, spend shockingly little time learning the sport they cover. Rick Stroud should have a great technical understanding of schemes and philosophies. He just does not ever demonstrate more than a cursory knowledge. The few who have played the game and offer us game analysis are unfortunately not there to ask questions of the key figures at pressers. I used to believe they were all just in bed with the team and trying to protect their access. That probably has something to do with it, but I wonder if they honestly just don't know what questions they should be asking.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2445

      Good quotes and info. Clearly, Verner and Banks weren't fans of Lovie and I can't blame them. Really excited to see how they look in a new scheme.On another note, I'm not so sure why people think we can definitely draft BPA now. As it was before the off-season, DE is still clearly this team's biggest need. I'm not sure if people have too high of expectations for Ayers or something, but this guy is definitely not going to solve our pass rushing problems. Sure, he's a decent player, but I don't think he's much more than that. I mean, just take a look into him. The guy is already 31 and has never reached 10 sacks. Hell, before last year, he never even had 6 sacks in a season.Just not really sure why Ayers should be changing our draft plans and allow us to not take a DE early on. IMO, we NEED to take a DE with one of our first 2 picks.

      I dont think anything we have done in FA has changed the fact that we're pretty desperate for DE still but I think Ayers allows us to not have to bite the bullet and reach on one of these mediocre DEs with pick number 9. Although thinking a little more about it, im not sure what other options are out there, we dont need a DT, and while i dont think these DEs are top 10 guys theyre still better value then taking a corner back. Its pretty much coming down to Stanley, one of the DEs, or in my opinion a surprise pick in Corey Coleman seeing as how Dirk is our head coach and was probably a bit scarred at the lack of options when Vjax goes down. (also Julio Jones pick worked out pretty well for Mike Smith and Dirk before)

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1250

      Good quotes and info. Clearly, Verner and Banks weren't fans of Lovie and I can't blame them. Really excited to see how they look in a new scheme.On another note, I'm not so sure why people think we can definitely draft BPA now. As it was before the off-season, DE is still clearly this team's biggest need. I'm not sure if people have too high of expectations for Ayers or something, but this guy is definitely not going to solve our pass rushing problems. Sure, he's a decent player, but I don't think he's much more than that. I mean, just take a look into him. The guy is already 31 and has never reached 10 sacks. Hell, before last year, he never even had 6 sacks in a season.Just not really sure why Ayers should be changing our draft plans and allow us to not take a DE early on. IMO, we NEED to take a DE with one of our first 2 picks.

      I dont think anything we have done in FA has changed the fact that we're pretty desperate for DE still but I think Ayers allows us to not have to bite the bullet and reach on one of these mediocre DEs with pick number 9. Although thinking a little more about it, im not sure what other options are out there, we dont need a DT, and while i dont think these DEs are top 10 guys theyre still better value then taking a corner back. Its pretty much coming down to Stanley, one of the DEs, or in my opinion a surprise pick in Corey Coleman seeing as how Dirk is our head coach and was probably a bit scarred at the lack of options when Vjax goes down. (also Julio Jones pick worked out pretty well for Mike Smith and Dirk before)

      Corey Coleman is the best WR in the draft and if we take him at 9 I wouldn't be upset. This draft has a ton of depth at DE but not really any freaks at the position worth taking really high. If we end up taking a DE at 9 I will definitely back the decision but I will not be surprised if we go in another direction and then take a DE in round 2. I really think round 1 we are set up for BPA and I can't really pinpoint who that could be since this draft could go a number of ways and everything is really up in the air.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      Why couldn't they stop the slants? They need to shade and play the fade. Trust their technique. If your technique is to take away the slant, don't over play it and vice versa on the fade. These guys don't trust their technique and over or underplay everything worrying about the other so they don't cover any! It is like paralysis from analysis.

      Sooo...you're blaming the players for a $hit scheme?  Is that what I am reading?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1166

      We just didn’t follow through with the plan.Lovie def has some b@lls to say one thing at the podium and another in the locker room. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1166

      I usually temper my excitement for upcoming seasons, but this one should be, at a minimum, exciting as h#ll. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2630

      Good quotes and info. Clearly, Verner and Banks weren't fans of Lovie and I can't blame them. Really excited to see how they look in a new scheme.On another note, I'm not so sure why people think we can definitely draft BPA now. As it was before the off-season, DE is still clearly this team's biggest need. I'm not sure if people have too high of expectations for Ayers or something, but this guy is definitely not going to solve our pass rushing problems. Sure, he's a decent player, but I don't think he's much more than that. I mean, just take a look into him. The guy is already 31 and has never reached 10 sacks. Hell, before last year, he never even had 6 sacks in a season.Just not really sure why Ayers should be changing our draft plans and allow us to not take a DE early on. IMO, we NEED to take a DE with one of our first 2 picks.

      I dont think anything we have done in FA has changed the fact that we're pretty desperate for DE still but I think Ayers allows us to not have to bite the bullet and reach on one of these mediocre DEs with pick number 9. Although thinking a little more about it, im not sure what other options are out there, we dont need a DT, and while i dont think these DEs are top 10 guys theyre still better value then taking a corner back. Its pretty much coming down to Stanley, one of the DEs, or in my opinion a surprise pick in Corey Coleman seeing as how Dirk is our head coach and was probably a bit scarred at the lack of options when Vjax goes down. (also Julio Jones pick worked out pretty well for Mike Smith and Dirk before)

      That's fair. I would definitely be fine with taking Coleman at 9 if they don't feel there is an elite DE on the board. However, if they go in another direction in round 2 after selecting Coleman, I think that would be a mistake. Like I said, I think we need to grab a DE with one of our first 2 picks.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3341

      Those were two of the best player interviews I’ve read on this site in a long time.  Both Verner and Banks came across very well.  Nice job.Oh, and lol @ Riverboat Lovie and his leghumpers.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1637

      Just finished reading the article and wow. I think most people already assumed that scheme was the problem. But they basically came right out and said  “yep we were supposed to just up them the slant”. That’s so stupid. I hate Josh Freeman because we wasted years on him and he threw it all away. Not just his own success, but the teams possibilities. I feel the same way about Lovie now. We wasted 2 years on him. The last 2 years were basically "throw aways" before they even started. That is infuriating. I'mi f'ing done with Lovie.


      Going forward - I couldn't be more excited. I can't wait until the draft because we don't NEED anything right now. BPA ALL DAY! I'd love to drop back 5 spots, pick up Spence and draft WR in the 2nd. Jason Licht is a homerunJameis, D.Smith, Ali, Kwon was a homerun draftFiring Lovie was a homerunKoetter/Smith are a homerunHopefully we get another homerun draft this year and I really feel like we are ready to play with the big boys. Jason Licht may end up being the best hire in the history of the franchise.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      I am having a very difficult time conceptualizing how Lovie Smith's defense was supposed to function.  Outside leverage the corner backs,  but then have them play so far off that they literally give up every "move the sticks" route.  In or out breaking, didn't seem to matter. Very little adjustment to situation or personnel.  It really pisses me off that we spent two years totally readjusting the defensive roster trying to make that failed scheme work. How many people here were saying that it just needed more time?  3 seperate meeting rooms for the defensive backs?  The more we find out, the more crystal clear it is that he should have been fired after his disastrous first season. He was given significantly more time than his competency warranted.

      +1 I'm infuriated by fans who don't watch the team often when they say he should've been given more time. It's like giving an arsonist more matches.

      I said around here, but it's really not the fans. We were talking about all this stuff, there were really only a few people defending Lovie on this forum. What upsets me is how badly our media apparatus failed us. The people who cover this sport professionally should have been asking pointed questions for a very long time and pushing much harder on the "we're going to get that fixed" answers they were getting after 20+ games. They moved into the offseason not even questioning his return.  I think part of it is none of the people who cover the Buccaneers for us understand football as well as dozens of fans who post here strictly for enjoyment. The people who cover the sport for a living, and have for decades, spend shockingly little time learning the sport they cover. Rick Stroud should have a great technical understanding of schemes and philosophies. He just does not ever demonstrate more than a cursory knowledge. The few who have played the game and offer us game analysis are unfortunately not there to ask questions of the key figures at pressers. I used to believe they were all just in bed with the team and trying to protect their access. That probably has something to do with it, but I wonder if they honestly just don't know what questions they should be asking.

      Quick note. there were a lot more then "a few" and some, like chevaliar, were extremely vocal and abusive in their defense of him.  We still have posters today crying how Lovie built the 10th ranked NFL defense and should have been given more time.  It really is a sad joke.In the article, there is a point that was commented on that I think was a VERY big reason why the defense didn't work.  Not only were there three secondary groups, corners, nickle and safeties, but each group had their own meetings and they did not meet as a whole group. If the CB is supposed to have inside help from the safety, it would be wise if they were both on the same page and looking at the same film, coming to the same conclusions, at the same time.  Especially if its true (and no reason to believe its not) that each of the secondary coaches taught the "scheme" differently.  Its common sense really.  I think it's pretty clear, yeah the scheme sucked, but the coaching and how the scheme was being taught to the players was the real culprit.I'm pumped about this year.  Haven't said that is a long time. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      I am thinking threadkiller is more accurate or it must have been the energetic efforts by those few who were so very determined in degrading the HC at the time. Seemed pretty significant majority but for a few who supported Smith.  It is possible I suppose that my recollections and opinion are entirely wrong.  That said - the future has great potential... keeping my hopes under control.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1312

      I am thinking threadkiller is more accurate or it must have been the energetic efforts by those few who were so very determined in degrading the HC at the time. Seemed pretty significant majority but for a few who supported Smith.  It is possible I suppose that my recollections and opinion are entirely wrong.  That said - the future has great potential... keeping my hopes under control.

      Good luck with that. I try and fail every year.  :-

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      I am thinking threadkiller is more accurate or it must have been the energetic efforts by those few who were so very determined in degrading the HC at the time. Seemed pretty significant majority but for a few who supported Smith.  It is possible I suppose that my recollections and opinion are entirely wrong.  That said - the future has great potential... keeping my hopes under control.

      There were definite groupsA - Those who demanded him gone this year and held out hope that it would happen, I think SBS was the core member of this groupB - Those who wished he would be fired but figured, even though he didn't deserve it, that he would get another year; I was in that groupC - Those who figured he would get another year and the team needed that 3rd year for consistency purposesD - Lovie Leg humpers - like those still telling us how he built a top 10 defenseI think the largest group was C.  If it was B, most were silent about it.  Those defending Lovie certainly were very loud.  I seem to recall a dozen or so people defending Lovie or at least defending consistency.  So maybe it was just a point of view.  Or maybe, since I was one of the loudest (next to SBS) calling for Lovie's head, I just  heard a lot more of the responses as to why he should stay.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1637

      I am thinking threadkiller is more accurate or it must have been the energetic efforts by those few who were so very determined in degrading the HC at the time. Seemed pretty significant majority but for a few who supported Smith.  It is possible I suppose that my recollections and opinion are entirely wrong.  That said - the future has great potential... keeping my hopes under control.

      There were definite groupsA - Those who demanded him gone this year and held out hope that it would happen, I think SBS was the core member of this groupB - Those who wished he would be fired but figured, even though he didn't deserve it, that he would get another year; I was in that groupC - Those who figured he would get another year and the team needed that 3rd year for consistency purposesD - Lovie Leg humpers - like those still telling us how he built a top 10 defenseI think the largest group was C.  If it was B, most were silent about it.  Those defending Lovie certainly were very loud.  I seem to recall a dozen or so people defending Lovie or at least defending consistency.  So maybe it was just a point of view.  Or maybe, since I was one of the loudest (next to SBS) calling for Lovie's head, I just  heard a lot more of the responses as to why he should stay.

      I was in group B, but wasn't very vocal about it. I think there were a lot of people who figured not matter what, he was going to get his 3rd year due to drafting offense both years.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      I was in B. I did not think it made sense to fire him in season, but I did want him gone. I also thought there was no chance he'd get fired before year 3.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2673

      Those were two of the best player interviews I've read on this site in a long time.  Both Verner and Banks came across very well.  Nice job.Oh, and lol @ Riverboat Lovie and his leghumpers.

      I'll eat my crow. At the beginning of the season I was probably among the biggest of the Lovie Leg Humpers. At the end of the Eagles game I was involved in extreme Lovie Leg Humpage. I realize now how wrong I was. In my defense, however, I was so so so so so glad to learn that he was fired in Janurary. I think I screamed with excitement when the news broke. I also just have to say: great article by PR! This is the kind of material used to pay for back when there was insider memberships. Superb job!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1312

      I wanted him gone but did not expect him to get fired. I was surprsied and THRILLED when the news broke.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 205

      Not sure if most of it was due to his hatred for Lovie but Banks did have some nice things to say about Schiano.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 34

      Group B. I was glad to hear the news. I also never wanted to hire him. Glad we were able to retain Dirk.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 401

      Wow. Just wow. Great job on this one Scott. Knew it was bad on defense just by watching games, but had no idea how deep it went until hearing the comments from Verner and Banks. Certainly understand the timing of the firing a lot better now.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1498

      Great article!Backs up a lot of suspicions. I find it interesting that banks not only seemed to love playing for Schiano, but thought of him as a father figure type.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      Wow. Just wow. Great job on this one Scott. Knew it was bad on defense just by watching games, but had no idea how deep it went until hearing the comments from Verner and Banks. Certainly understand the timing of the firing a lot better now.

      +1 Scott answered a fundamental question many of us wanted to know but figured we might never get an answer on.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Quick note. there were a lot more then "a few" and some, like chevaliar, were extremely vocal and abusive in their defense of him.  We still have posters today crying how Lovie built the 10th ranked NFL defense and should have been given more time.  It really is a sad joke.In the article, there is a point that was commented on that I think was a VERY big reason why the defense didn't work.  Not only were there three secondary groups, corners, nickle and safeties, but each group had their own meetings and they did not meet as a whole group. If the CB is supposed to have inside help from the safety, it would be wise if they were both on the same page and looking at the same film, coming to the same conclusions, at the same time.  Especially if its true (and no reason to believe its not) that each of the secondary coaches taught the "scheme" differently.  Its common sense really.  I think it's pretty clear, yeah the scheme sucked, but the coaching and how the scheme was being taught to the players was the real culprit.

      marinate on that for a second.....

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      I am having a very difficult time conceptualizing how Lovie Smith's defense was supposed to function.  Outside leverage the corner backs,  but then have them play so far off that they literally give up every "move the sticks" route.  In or out breaking, didn't seem to matter. Very little adjustment to situation or personnel.  It really pisses me off that we spent two years totally readjusting the defensive roster trying to make that failed scheme work. How many people here were saying that it just needed more time?  3 seperate meeting rooms for the defensive backs?  The more we find out, the more crystal clear it is that he should have been fired after his disastrous first season. He was given significantly more time than his competency warranted.

      The most amazing thing I read in the article was that they didnt meet together. The nickles, the corners and the safeties never had any cohesion because they never met together. For a professional football team that is amazing. The lack of cohesion was evident. Also, the LB's were responsible for a lot of those slants. On obvious passing downs the LB's were clearly out of position. As if those inside receivers were invisible. LVD was terrible in coverage last year. Let's chalk it up to bad coaching and hope they all bounce back this year.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      What I can’t get over is how Lovie was two years removed from having probably the best defence of the decade.  By Football Outsiders' DVOA they were -26.7% which is really, really good. For comparison's sake that's better than the 2012 Seahawks and 2015 Denver Broncos.  The only better DVOA ranking in the last decade was 2008 Pittsburgh.  Since 2008 every top ranked defence in DVOA has at least gone to the AFC/NFC championship game, all but two went to the Super Bowl. Somehow, Lovie with the 2nd best defence of the decade didn't even make the playoffs.Lovie had GREAT assistants in Marinelli and Toub.  His success was largely due to those two men.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      The best thing about this is that many if not all our secondary guys should improve. Maybe dramatically. It’s really an enormous opportunity for Mike Smith.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      I am thinking threadkiller is more accurate or it must have been the energetic efforts by those few who were so very determined in degrading the HC at the time. Seemed pretty significant majority but for a few who supported Smith.  It is possible I suppose that my recollections and opinion are entirely wrong.  That said - the future has great potential... keeping my hopes under control.

      There were definite groupsA - Those who demanded him gone this year and held out hope that it would happen, I think SBS was the core member of this groupB - Those who wished he would be fired but figured, even though he didn't deserve it, that he would get another year; I was in that groupC - Those who figured he would get another year and the team needed that 3rd year for consistency purposesD - Lovie Leg humpers - like those still telling us how he built a top 10 defenseI think the largest group was C.  If it was B, most were silent about it.  Those defending Lovie certainly were very loud.  I seem to recall a dozen or so people defending Lovie or at least defending consistency.  So maybe it was just a point of view.  Or maybe, since I was one of the loudest (next to SBS) calling for Lovie's head, I just  heard a lot more of the responses as to why he should stay.

      There really isn't any reason to continue this point I brought up - and I am sorry for giving your or anyone else the impression I needed a response.  Here's hoping for a better year coming up.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      I think both Verner and Banks have big seasons. That old scheme was horrific. 24304824971_fd47092cfd_z.jpgvern_zpsd9bs57xm by anti java, on Flickr

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      I think both Verner and Banks have big seasons. That old scheme was horrific. 24304824971_fd47092cfd_z.jpgvern_zpsd9bs57xm by anti java, on Flickr

      That would be great, and perhaps help the loss of confidence in the running of this franchise that is now 7 years old.  Hope this is the season we see the start of the return to average.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      I think both Verner and Banks have big seasons. That old scheme was horrific. 24304824971_fd47092cfd_z.jpgvern_zpsd9bs57xm by anti java, on Flickr

      That would be great, and perhaps help the loss of confidence in the running of this franchise that is now 7 years old.  Hope this is the season we see the start of the return to average.

      I think it happens this season. The vibe is totally different. The players seem to love and respect Koetter. And that is step one.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Great read. Banks, Verner and Grimes should give us a good veteran presence in the secondary. Wouldn’t be mad with VH3 at 9 but I’m no longer thinking we go that direction. I can see DE, OL or WR at that pick now.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      AJ, how many steps are there in this recovery… just curious. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1176

      I think both Verner and Banks have big seasons. That old scheme was horrific. 24304824971_fd47092cfd_z.jpgvern_zpsd9bs57xm by anti java, on Flickr

      That would be great, and perhaps help the loss of confidence in the running of this franchise that is now 7 years old.  Hope this is the season we see the start of the return to average.

      I think it happens this season. The vibe is totally different. The players seem to love and respect Koetter. And that is step one.

      The players are also feeling the respect from the coaches. Koetter speaks with them face to face and is upfront with the players. He treats them like men.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      I think both Verner and Banks have big seasons. That old scheme was horrific. 24304824971_fd47092cfd_z.jpgvern_zpsd9bs57xm by anti java, on Flickr

      That would be great, and perhaps help the loss of confidence in the running of this franchise that is now 7 years old.  Hope this is the season we see the start of the return to average.

      I think it happens this season. The vibe is totally different. The players seem to love and respect Koetter. And that is step one.

      Welcome backNot the same old Bucs that you laughed about Welcome backNot the same old slants that you bitched aboutThough the names have all changed since Lovie hung aroundAll the fans will return once we turn aroundAnd who thought we need ya?Yeah well we need yaYeah we tease him a lot, cos he's head coach Dougie KoetWelcome backWelcome back welcome back welcome baaaaack.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      AJ, how many steps are there in this recovery... just curious.

      Well, in today's NFL it is not that uncommon to go from cellar dweller to contender. The league is set up that way. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head. But recently the Chiefs went from 3-4 wins to 12 the next season I believe it was?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1176

      I think both Verner and Banks have big seasons. That old scheme was horrific. 24304824971_fd47092cfd_z.jpgvern_zpsd9bs57xm by anti java, on Flickr

      That would be great, and perhaps help the loss of confidence in the running of this franchise that is now 7 years old.  Hope this is the season we see the start of the return to average.

      I think it happens this season. The vibe is totally different. The players seem to love and respect Koetter. And that is step one.

      Welcome backNot the same old Bucs that you laughed about Welcome backNot the same old slants that you (censored)ed aboutThough the names have all changed since Lovie hung aroundAll the fans will return once we turn aroundAnd who thought we need ya?Yeah well we need yaYeah we tease him a lot, cos he's head coach Dougie KoetWelcome backWelcome back welcome back welcome baaaaack.

      "head coach Dougie Koet"?Needs a little work. lol

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      Dirk lol. Damned autocorrect!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      AJ, how many steps are there in this recovery... just curious.

      Well, in today's NFL it is not that uncommon to go from cellar dweller to contender. The league is set up that way. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head. But recently the Chiefs went from 3-4 wins to 12 the next season I believe it was?

      Going to need a lot better Dline, and a speedy/quick pair of receivers.  And get Clady - so now a Oline might be created - finally...

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      AJ, how many steps are there in this recovery... just curious.

      Well, in today's NFL it is not that uncommon to go from cellar dweller to contender. The league is set up that way. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head. But recently the Chiefs went from 3-4 wins to 12 the next season I believe it was?

      Going to need a lot better Dline, and a speedy/quick pair of receivers.  And get Clady - so now a Oline might be created - finally...

      Well, we have 7 draft picks, and I think Jason signs a few more free agents later on, mid level guys.  So if he drafts as well as last year, we could get close to filling those holes you mentioned.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      I am looking for 1-2 DEs and a DT, and somehow we need to inject speed into the receiver group – might get by with one WR, but I think two is the answer… and the worst part is these guys need to play now, and at a high level.  Not happening with the bucs imvho, not since the end of Dungy and start of Gruden have so many right moves been recorded in buccaneer history.  I am being positive, but not going to let hopes go sky high before seeing some evidence that a new coach and staff, along with a busload of new players can make me think 10-12 wins are there for the taking…

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      AJ, how many steps are there in this recovery... just curious.

      Well, in today's NFL it is not that uncommon to go from cellar dweller to contender. The league is set up that way. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head. But recently the Chiefs went from 3-4 wins to 12 the next season I believe it was?

      http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/on-any-given-sunday-nfl-favorites-win-and-underdogs-lose/

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1385

      I was also in group B, I honestly felt he would get a 3rd year because I thought that he would play the ‘new quarterback’ card and that the Glazers would give it to him even though we lost 3 maybe 4 games that we could have won because of the defense.But I also pointed out that Frazier's defense the year before was better and so was Shiano's last defense and that the defense got worse under Lovie instead of better. I just figured it was going to be a wasted year and then we'd start fresh again in 2017.I'm very glad that the Glazers had the balls to let Lovie go and not waste that season and now that I'm hearing some of the other things going on with Lovie in command, I'm almost appalled that he wasn't fired in season.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      I guess there must be a group E for those few of us that never wanted him in the first place and hated the hire, hoping with every loss* it would be the one that him canned but thinking deep down he would likely get 3 years minimum because he was a master of blackmail (how else do you explain his surviving so long in Chicago without consistent or even frequent playoff years) and throwing others under the bus in attempts to deflect blame.*Don't confuse this with wanting the team to lose.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      Yeah TBT, I’m guessing you often fall into some pretty lonely categories……. :P

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      Yeah TBT, I'm guessing you often fall into some pretty lonely categories....... :P

      You guess wrong

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      I think both Verner and Banks have big seasons. That old scheme was horrific. 24304824971_fd47092cfd_z.jpgvern_zpsd9bs57xm by anti java, on Flickr

      That would be great, and perhaps help the loss of confidence in the running of this franchise that is now 7 years old.  Hope this is the season we see the start of the return to average.

      I think it happens this season. The vibe is totally different. The players seem to love and respect Koetter. And that is step one.

      Welcome backNot the same old Bucs that you laughed about Welcome backNot the same old slants that you (censored)ed aboutThough the names have all changed since Lovie hung aroundAll the fans will return once we turn aroundAnd who thought we need ya?Yeah well we need yaYeah we tease him a lot, cos he's head coach Dougie KoetWelcome backWelcome back welcome back welcome baaaaack.

      the youngins won't get it but well done!!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1312

      I think both Verner and Banks have big seasons. That old scheme was horrific. 24304824971_fd47092cfd_z.jpgvern_zpsd9bs57xm by anti java, on Flickr

      That would be great, and perhaps help the loss of confidence in the running of this franchise that is now 7 years old.  Hope this is the season we see the start of the return to average.

      I think it happens this season. The vibe is totally different. The players seem to love and respect Koetter. And that is step one.

      Welcome backNot the same old Bucs that you laughed about Welcome backNot the same old slants that you (censored)ed aboutThough the names have all changed since Lovie hung aroundAll the fans will return once we turn aroundAnd who thought we need ya?Yeah well we need yaYeah we tease him a lot, cos he's head coach Dougie KoetWelcome backWelcome back welcome back welcome baaaaack.

      the youngins won't get it but well done!!

      But your old azz got it right away, didnt ya?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 401

      Count me as one of the old ones. Nicely done Jersey! And yes I did read it with the music in my head and singing it. ????

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      But your old azz got it right away, didnt ya?

      I wear it well, better than these guys:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25GcBSNn44o

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1312

      Count me as one of the old ones. Nicely done Jersey! And yes I did read it with the music in my head and singing it. ????

      So funny.. I sang my way through it as well..

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      I want to see some swag back on the defensive side of the ball. Some confidence. Last season there were too many WTF looks on the players faces. And Lovies too. Maybe after a few well played games on defense we can get back to this...20758394551_7fe486e8c0_z.jpgsim by anti java, on Flickr

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Hopefully Kwon becomes that guy

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Hopefully Kwon becomes that guy

      That is why I have pulling for Ramsey. Born leader, not afraid to talk a little smack. And he can back it up.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 704

      Hopefully Kwon becomes that guy

      That is why I have pulling for Ramsey. Born leader, not afraid to talk a little smack. And he can back it up.

      I hate to break it to you, but I have seen some mocks with Ramsey going #1 overall to the Titans. I highly doubt he will last to the #9 pick.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Hopefully Kwon becomes that guy

      That is why I have pulling for Ramsey. Born leader, not afraid to talk a little smack. And he can back it up.

      I hate to break it to you, but I have seen some mocks with Ramsey going #1 overall to the Titans. I highly doubt he will last to the #9 pick.

      I am aware.  I am hoping he slips just a bit and we trade up to snag him. Use the Glennon pick to trade up to #5 or whatever.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 295

      Verner and Banks didn’t get pulled after getting beat one time. They got whipped plenty of times. I agree the scheme allowed for slants, but why is it that when Barimah and Moore came in we instantly started getting physical with WRs and the slants were much more difficult to get? I hope Banks and Verner turn it around (Verner at least looked OK at nickel), and the system and gameplanning were an issue, but this reporting borders on homerism. Banks and Verner need to be more accountable and just put their heads down, mouths shut, and work hard

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      Verner and Banks didn't get pulled after getting beat one time. They got whipped plenty of times. I agree the scheme allowed for slants, but why is it that when Barimah and Moore came in we instantly started getting physical with WRs and the slants were much more difficult to get? I hope Banks and Verner turn it around (Verner at least looked OK at nickel), and the system and gameplanning were an issue, but this reporting borders on homerism. Banks and Verner need to be more accountable and just put their heads down, mouths shut, and work hard

      There's some truth to that.  But every CB got whipped repeatedly including Barimah and Moore.  As did Verner, Banks, Jenkins, Tim Jennings, etc.  At some point you gotta say, "What's the common denominator?"

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      I think both Verner and Banks have big seasons. That old scheme was horrific. 24304824971_fd47092cfd_z.jpgvern_zpsd9bs57xm by anti java, on Flickr

      That would be great, and perhaps help the loss of confidence in the running of this franchise that is now 7 years old.  Hope this is the season we see the start of the return to average.

      I think it happens this season. The vibe is totally different. The players seem to love and respect Koetter. And that is step one.

      Welcome backNot the same old Bucs that you laughed about Welcome backNot the same old slants that you (censored)ed aboutThough the names have all changed since Lovie hung aroundAll the fans will return once we turn aroundAnd who thought we need ya?Yeah well we need yaYeah we tease him a lot, cos he's head coach DIRK KoetWelcome backWelcome back welcome back welcome baaaaack.

      the youngins won't get it but well done!!

      Thanks to you and everyone who responded! Yeah old enough for some John Sebastian. Guilty! Lol

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1637

      Also, the LB's were responsible for a lot of those slants. On obvious passing downs the LB's were clearly out of position. As if those inside receivers were invisible. LVD was terrible in coverage last year. Let's chalk it up to bad coaching and hope they all bounce back this year.

      I started thinking about this point. If the WRs were being funneled in towards the LBs - where were the LBs? Then it hit me - oh yea, they were bluffing the A gap. What. The. Fudge. You have your cornerbacks 10 yards off playing outside leverage with your linebackers bluffing the blitz at the line of scrimmage and the safeties about 20 yards off the ball. QBs probably couldn't contain their excitement. I'm sure the LBs had some poor days. But when the scheme calls for you to line up out of position in the first place you're not bein set up for success. We have 2 of the fastest linebackers in the league and they couldn't get there. This scheme was gaaaaaaaarbage.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      Verner and Banks didn't get pulled after getting beat one time. They got whipped plenty of times. I agree the scheme allowed for slants, but why is it that when Barimah and Moore came in we instantly started getting physical with WRs and the slants were much more difficult to get? I hope Banks and Verner turn it around (Verner at least looked OK at nickel), and the system and gameplanning were an issue, but this reporting borders on homerism. Banks and Verner need to be more accountable and just put their heads down, mouths shut, and work hard

      Please point us to two games where the slants were hard to get? It didn't matter who was in there, the results were the same no matter who was in there. It wasn't Banks and Verner, it was a horrible scheme and coaching. Two undeniable facts.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      I hope Banks and Verner turn it around (Verner at least looked OK at nickel), and the system and gameplanning were an issue, but this reporting borders on homerism. Banks and Verner need to be more accountable and just put their heads down, mouths shut, and work hard

      i disagree with most of this.  Maybe I just skimmed it too fast, but it seemed that most of the fab5 was quotes, not reporting.  And I don’t think this is the time for banks/verner to keep their mouth shut.  They kept it shut during the season, were very professional.  Now is the time to talk, and I think they have been honest and respectful at the same time.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 861

      I was in A when he was hired and said so, more than once.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      I want to see some swag back on the defensive side of the ball. Some confidence. Last season there were too many WTF looks on the players faces. And Lovies too. Maybe after a few well played games on defense we can get back to this...20758394551_7fe486e8c0_z.jpgsim by anti java, on Flickr

      Want to see the swag, improve the Dline – I am unabashedly hoping Buckner drops to the Bucs…. and then hell breaks loose with that group suddenly ruining the passing game of opponents…

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 295

      Verner and Banks didn't get pulled after getting beat one time. They got whipped plenty of times. I agree the scheme allowed for slants, but why is it that when Barimah and Moore came in we instantly started getting physical with WRs and the slants were much more difficult to get? I hope Banks and Verner turn it around (Verner at least looked OK at nickel), and the system and gameplanning were an issue, but this reporting borders on homerism. Banks and Verner need to be more accountable and just put their heads down, mouths shut, and work hard

      Please point us to two games where the slants were hard to get? It didn't matter who was in there, the results were the same no matter who was in there. It wasn't Banks and Verner, it was a horrible scheme and coaching. Two undeniable facts.

      When Barimah and Moore became the starters against the Giants, we stopped allowing every pass inside 10 yards to be completed for the next 3 games vs NYG, vs Dallas, and vs Philly. There was a noticeable difference from Moore's INT on the first play of the NYG game (a slant pass), to allowing only 6 points vs Dallas and blowing out PhillyCommon denominator between Tim Jennings, Mike Jenkins, Barimah, Moore, Banks and Verner is lack of talent. Scheme and game plan was a factor as well, but pretending this group is loaded with talent is kidding yourselfGametime, the reporting was slanted towards cutting Verner and Banks all kinds of slack. Nows the time for Verner and Banks to talk? Hardly. Nows the time for them to prove they still belong in this league. I remember similar enthusiasm for Michael Clayton when Gruden got fired and Dominik gave Clayton 35 mil. It's easy to be a Homer and blame the former coach when a guy who had potential flames outI'm not saying Banks and Verner can't turn it around, but I am saying they need to work for it and be accountable, and all our Homer fans don't do them any favors by being biased towards them. There's a REASON Grimes was given 8 mil per year and Robinson was signed, and we might draft CB in round 1, and it's not because Verner and Banks are a couple gems

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      When Barimah and Moore became the starters against the Giants, we stopped allowing every pass inside 10 yards to be completed for the next 3 games vs NYG, vs Dallas, and vs Philly. There was a noticeable difference from Moore's INT on the first play of the NYG game (a slant pass), to allowing only 6 points vs Dallas and blowing out PhillyCommon denominator between Tim Jennings, Mike Jenkins, Barimah, Moore, Banks and Verner is lack of talent. Scheme and game plan was a factor as well, but pretending this group is loaded with talent is kidding yourselfGametime, the reporting was slanted towards cutting Verner and Banks all kinds of slack. Nows the time for Verner and Banks to talk? Hardly. Nows the time for them to prove they still belong in this league. I remember similar enthusiasm for Michael Clayton when Gruden got fired and Dominik gave Clayton 35 mil. It's easy to be a Homer and blame the former coach when a guy who had potential flames outI'm not saying Banks and Verner can't turn it around, but I am saying they need to work for it and be accountable, and all our Homer fans don't do them any favors by being biased towards them. There's a REASON Grimes was given 8 mil per year and Robinson was signed, and we might draft CB in round 1, and it's not because Verner and Banks are a couple gems

      i can’t remember if JAB and Moore were playing better, or differently, or it was on the QBs.  I do remember it didn’t last long."This group" - is that last years group?  I don't think anyone is considering them super talented.  I don't think anyone is considering this years group super talented.  But both groups could probably be considered adequate.  Which is why this article was good IMO.  It gave a players perspective into why they thought the defense didn't work.It's not homerism, it's actual reporting IMO.  The slant question was something that was discussed a lot.  No one had a real answer.  Lovies answer was at odds to what the fans saw on the field.  So this was pretty good reporting.The guys were asked for an interview request and obliged.  There is nothing to prove today.  Games aren't even around the corner.Biased towards our own players?  Hahaha.As grimes reason for his contract, there is a reason that verner got a 7mil contract.  A reason banks was taken in the 2nd.  These guys are not talentless.  Most everyone has an issue with lovie.  This fab5 wasn't homerism in my book, but read it however you like.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      When Barimah and Moore became the starters against the Giants, we stopped allowing every pass inside 10 yards to be completed for the next 3 games vs NYG, vs Dallas, and vs Philly. There was a noticeable difference from Moore's INT on the first play of the NYG game (a slant pass), to allowing only 6 points vs Dallas and blowing out PhillyCommon denominator between Tim Jennings, Mike Jenkins, Barimah, Moore, Banks and Verner is lack of talent. Scheme and game plan was a factor as well, but pretending this group is loaded with talent is kidding yourselfGametime, the reporting was slanted towards cutting Verner and Banks all kinds of slack. Nows the time for Verner and Banks to talk? Hardly. Nows the time for them to prove they still belong in this league. I remember similar enthusiasm for Michael Clayton when Gruden got fired and Dominik gave Clayton 35 mil. It's easy to be a Homer and blame the former coach when a guy who had potential flames outI'm not saying Banks and Verner can't turn it around, but I am saying they need to work for it and be accountable, and all our Homer fans don't do them any favors by being biased towards them. There's a REASON Grimes was given 8 mil per year and Robinson was signed, and we might draft CB in round 1, and it's not because Verner and Banks are a couple gems

      i can't remember if JAB and Moore were playing better, or differently, or it was on the QBs.  I do remember it didn't last long."This group" - is that last years group?  I don't think anyone is considering them super talented.  I don't think anyone is considering this years group super talented.  But both groups could probably be considered adequate.  Which is why this article was good IMO.  It gave a players perspective into why they thought the defense didn't work.It's not homerism, it's actual reporting IMO.  The slant question was something that was discussed a lot.  No one had a real answer.  Lovies answer was at odds to what the fans saw on the field.  So this was pretty good reporting.The guys were asked for an interview request and obliged.  There is nothing to prove today.  Games aren't even around the corner.Biased towards our own players?  Hahaha.As grimes reason for his contract, there is a reason that verner got a 7mil contract.  A reason banks was taken in the 2nd.  These guys are not talentless.  Most everyone has an issue with lovie.  This fab5 wasn't homerism in my book, but read it however you like.

      There was no significant improvement.  There were individual spots where each player looked good and plenty where each looked bad.  Of course going against three weak offense riddled with injuries and back up QB's certainly didn't hurt.  And in each game, there were still plenty of slants with the CB playing 10 yards off.[member=6736]kbl117[/member], please show us where I said anything close to the secondary is loaded with talent.  We know it's hard enough for you to support your homerism for anything Lovie and to try and deflect away from his horrid coaching, but making things up does not help your cause.  No one here is claiming Banks and Verner are All Pro studs that will get 10 interceptions, each, every year.  What we are saying is that Lovie and is farce of a secondary staff's poor coaching and system made look them bad.  It made all of them look bad.  And it is our belief, based on their play before Lovie, that they are competent CB's and can play much better in a real NFL defense. And I agree 100% with GT, this was a very balanced article.  This article doesn't make Lovie look bad; he did that all on his own.  So how about you come back to reality and the real conversation.....  Banks and Verner hope to have a much better year now that they have a quality coaching staff and system. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1571

      Wow SR, nice read. 

      When Barimah and Moore became the starters against the Giants, we stopped allowing every pass inside 10 yards to be completed for the next 3 games vs NYG, vs Dallas, and vs Philly. There was a noticeable difference from Moore's INT on the first play of the NYG game (a slant pass), to allowing only 6 points vs Dallas and blowing out PhillyCommon denominator between Tim Jennings, Mike Jenkins, Barimah, Moore, Banks and Verner is lack of talent. Scheme and game plan was a factor as well, but pretending this group is loaded with talent is kidding yourselfGametime, the reporting was slanted towards cutting Verner and Banks all kinds of slack. Nows the time for Verner and Banks to talk? Hardly. Nows the time for them to prove they still belong in this league. I remember similar enthusiasm for Michael Clayton when Gruden got fired and Dominik gave Clayton 35 mil. It's easy to be a Homer and blame the former coach when a guy who had potential flames outI'm not saying Banks and Verner can't turn it around, but I am saying they need to work for it and be accountable, and all our Homer fans don't do them any favors by being biased towards them. There's a REASON Grimes was given 8 mil per year and Robinson was signed, and we might draft CB in round 1, and it's not because Verner and Banks are a couple gems

      i can't remember if JAB and Moore were playing better, or differently, or it was on the QBs.  I do remember it didn't last long.

      Isn't that the same 2 or 3 game stretch where we all got super excited because the defense was playing aggressively and looked really good?  You know, where Lovie came out and said we needed some man corners to run the defense the way he wanted to and we all went nuts over the Revis thing (again).I remember being so mad after those few games when our boys trotted out there and went back to giving receivers huge cushions and our defense went back to the crapper.  I don't give any of our dbacks credit for those few games nor do I fault any for the rest of the games.  Nobody could have looked good given the circumstances. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      I want to see some swag back on the defensive side of the ball. Some confidence. Last season there were too many WTF looks on the players faces. And Lovies too. Maybe after a few well played games on defense we can get back to this...20758394551_7fe486e8c0_z.jpgsim by anti java, on Flickr

      Want to see the swag, improve the Dline - I am unabashedly hoping Buckner drops to the Bucs.... and then hell breaks loose with that group suddenly ruining the passing game of opponents...

      Agree, and hopefully Ayres has something left.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I want to see what the REAL discussion was like..SR: "Why couldnt you stop the slants?"Banks: "lovie wouldn't let me play, so how the hell should I know?"Verner: "are you fuggin kidding? ..you saw how far back I was, right? Wtf does that??SR: "whats up with smith #2? You like him, and, do you feel like it will help?"Banks: "Man, idgaf who it is, I'm just happy to be out of the doghouse."Verner: "I was a probowler, then, with lovies help, I was relegated to the bench, where, obviously, it's more comfortable. I wanted to be a probowler again, but lovie convinced me to give other players a chance.Seriously, SR, are you even trying..?"SR: "just curious, thats all."Banks: " if i may interrupt for a minute. SR, it would be a lot easier to say lovie didnt understand common physics. Two objects going at the same relative speed cannot catch up to each other. We were waaaaay back there, and they were waaay up front, catching the ball. I mean, i told lovie the first down marker was thirty yards away, but he said it was alright, so I believed him."Verner: " ..and that !#$@er tanked."

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2560

      I want to see what the REAL discussion was like..SR: "Why couldnt you stop the slants?"Banks: "lovie wouldn't let me play, so how the hell should I know?"Verner: "are you fuggin kidding? ..you saw how far back I was, right? Wtf does that??SR: "whats up with smith #2? You like him, and, do you feel like it will help?"Banks: "Man, idgaf who it is, I'm just happy to be out of the doghouse."Verner: "I was a probowler, then, with lovies help, I was relegated to the bench, where, obviously, it's more comfortable. I wanted to be a probowler again, but lovie convinced me to give other players a chance.Seriously, SR, are you even trying..?"SR: "just curious, thats all."Banks: " if i may interrupt for a minute. SR, it would be a lot easier to say lovie didnt understand common physics. Two objects going at the same relative speed cannot catch up to each other. We were waaaaay back there, and they were waaay up front, catching the ball. I mean, i told lovie the first down marker was thirty yards away, but he said it was alright, so I believed him."Verner: " ..and that !#$@er tanked."

      Lmao! Classic. But realistically amongst themselves it would be fun to know what they really said.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      I want to see what the REAL discussion was like..SR: "Why couldnt you stop the slants?"Banks: "lovie wouldn't let me play, so how the hell should I know?"Verner: "are you fuggin kidding? ..you saw how far back I was, right? Wtf does that??SR: "whats up with smith #2? You like him, and, do you feel like it will help?"Banks: "Man, idgaf who it is, I'm just happy to be out of the doghouse."Verner: "I was a probowler, then, with lovies help, I was relegated to the bench, where, obviously, it's more comfortable. I wanted to be a probowler again, but lovie convinced me to give other players a chance.Seriously, SR, are you even trying..?"SR: "just curious, thats all."Banks: " if i may interrupt for a minute. SR, it would be a lot easier to say lovie didnt understand common physics. Two objects going at the same relative speed cannot catch up to each other. We were waaaaay back there, and they were waaay up front, catching the ball. I mean, i told lovie the first down marker was thirty yards away, but he said it was alright, so I believed him."Verner: " ..and that !#$@er tanked."

      Funny, but Verner is a very religious guy in real life.

      Please wait…

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