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    • traew01

      Participant
      Post count: 44

      I'm not going to defend Winston's play. He was fairly inaccurate at times and made errors. But honestly, I expected that. But his teammates sure did not give him much help. The kick and punt return game was abysmal and gave Winston very poor field position the entire first half. He still managed to lead two drives of more than 60 yards. The sack he took was completely not his fault. I think refs missed two blatant penalties on Bucs receivers. His center fired one snap over his head. I saw enough from Winston that I think there is a lot to be optimistic about. He is a very smart kid and will learn from every game he plays. I was happy to see he faced quite a few different scenarios, looked pretty mobile when he had to be, made some strong throws, and did not make too many blatant errors. I'm keeping the faith. He needs more help from his team.

      Please wait…

    • rmslpn

      Participant
      Post count: 1384

      its preseason, Bucs kept things pretty vanilla on both sides of the ball, more about evaluating talent then coaching and scheming to win a game

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 167

      Completely agree.  Winston will, and already is, an upgrade over last year’s QB debacle.  This team as a whole still does not look very good.  Still keeping in mind this was the 1st PRESEASON game.  I’ll be worried if the Titans make us look silly Week 1.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 167

      its preseason, Bucs kept things pretty vanilla on both sides of the ball, more about evaluating talent then coaching and scheming to win a game

      The problem is we looked pretty bad executing even vanilla type plays.  Probably speaks more to the lack of depth this team has than anything.

      Please wait…

    • rmslpn

      Participant
      Post count: 1384

      actually I don’t think depth is horrible, room for upgrades but not horrible…personally I think many of the backups looked pretty good mainly DL hustle and Greene and Kwon at backers

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 333

      its preseason, Bucs kept things pretty vanilla on both sides of the ball, more about evaluating talent then coaching and scheming to win a game

      Agree. Minnesota was playing at home, their second game of preseason, and with a more experienced offense. One would suspect they have installed more, and were further along preparation-wise, than the Bucs. Yep - excuses. But also facts. In preseason you really can only evaluate individual battles and matchups - and how players execute basic assignments and plays. It is tougher to get a sense of where a team is overall. But you really would like to see individual guys play well.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 293

      Preseason or not… rookie qb or vet… it still looked like the same sloppy crapshow production we saw last year. Seemed almost like the 17th game of the 14-15 season.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2188

      All great points Traew01.Clay singlehandedly made Winston's life difficult in the first quarter. Despite the bads snaps, field position, and shaky Oline play Winston still produced 150+ yards of passing and rushing yards plus a TD in his first half of pro football. Later in the game they showed Jameis studying the iPad and comparing notes on the sidelines. Guy is a football junky. I expect he'll get better each week.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      its preseason, Bucs kept things pretty vanilla on both sides of the ball

      this is a concept i've never agreed with as we've never been good enough to just flip the switch week 1. Do what you do.....and do it well has always been my motto. What exactly are we hiding?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      Slow starting pick machine.That's what Winston was last year at FSU.Does anyone claim that he has changed anything outside of the umiform?

      Please wait…

    • snidley

      Participant
      Post count: 415

      Slow starting pick machine.That's what Winston was last year at FSU.Does anyone claim that he has changed anything outside of the umiform?

      I hate this comparison... He was not that the year he won a title and the Heisman!! One year does not define a person especially if they have shown different. Winston looked indecisive, rushed, and inaccurate, all things that he is not. Regardless of how many haters, Bucs fans included, want him to fail for there own agenda, he will eventually prove you wrong!This kid will not stop until he is the best, he will not stop working, he will learn from this game. In all honesty, I wish he did worse so he could learn from it, his teammates could learn from it and everyone would remember what it feels like and come together.It was the first preseason game! Give him time before brining out the pitch forks!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 534

      I'm not going to defend Winston's play. He was fairly inaccurate at times and made errors. But honestly, I expected that. But his teammates sure did not give him much help. The kick and punt return game was abysmal and gave Winston very poor field position the entire first half. He still managed to lead two drives of more than 60 yards. The sack he took was completely not his fault. I think refs missed two blatant penalties on Bucs receivers. His center fired one snap over his head. I saw enough from Winston that I think there is a lot to be optimistic about. He is a very smart kid and will learn from every game he plays. I was happy to see he faced quite a few different scenarios, looked pretty mobile when he had to be, made some strong throws, and did not make too many blatant errors. I'm keeping the faith. He needs more help from his team.

      Its one freaking preseason game.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1176

      its preseason, Bucs kept things pretty vanilla on both sides of the ball

      this is a concept i've never agreed with as we've never been good enough to just flip the switch week 1. Do what you do.....and do it well has always been my motto. What exactly are we hiding?

      Remember last season when we thought they were hiding the true offense during preseason games? It was the same slop when the regular season began. It even got more comical as the season went on.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2188

      Slow starting pick machine.That's what Winston was last year at FSU.Does anyone claim that he has changed anything outside of the umiform?

      I hate this comparison... He was not that the year he won a title and the Heisman!! One year does not define a person especially if they have shown different. Winston looked indecisive, rushed, and inaccurate, all things that he is not. Regardless of how many haters, Bucs fans included, want him to fail for there own agenda, he will eventually prove you wrong!This kid will not stop until he is the best, he will not stop working, he will learn from this game. In all honesty, I wish he did worse so he could learn from it, his teammates could learn from it and everyone would remember what it feels like and come together.It was the first preseason game! Give him time before brining out the pitch forks!

      +1 Well said

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      I hate this comparison... He was not that the year he won a title and the Heisman!! One year does not define a person especially if they have shown different. Winston looked indecisive, rushed, and inaccurate, all things that he is not.

      That could also be applied to his freshman season.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1176

      I'm not going to defend Winston's play. He was fairly inaccurate at times and made errors. But honestly, I expected that. But his teammates sure did not give him much help. The kick and punt return game was abysmal and gave Winston very poor field position the entire first half. He still managed to lead two drives of more than 60 yards. The sack he took was completely not his fault. I think refs missed two blatant penalties on Bucs receivers. His center fired one snap over his head. I saw enough from Winston that I think there is a lot to be optimistic about. He is a very smart kid and will learn from every game he plays. I was happy to see he faced quite a few different scenarios, looked pretty mobile when he had to be, made some strong throws, and did not make too many blatant errors. I'm keeping the faith. He needs more help from his team.

      Its one freaking preseason game.

      This is how we do things around here. No time to develop a young QB. This is why we drafted Winston. Everyone gave up on Glennon after he had to play on this circus of a team last season.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      Slow starting pick machine.That's what Winston was last year at FSU.Does anyone claim that he has changed anything outside of the umiform?

      I hate this comparison... He was not that the year he won a title and the Heisman!! One year does not define a person especially if they have shown different. Winston looked indecisive, rushed, and inaccurate, all things that he is not. Regardless of how many haters, Bucs fans included, want him to fail for there own agenda, he will eventually prove you wrong!This kid will not stop until he is the best, he will not stop working, he will learn from this game. In all honesty, I wish he did worse so he could learn from it, his teammates could learn from it and everyone would remember what it feels like and come together.It was the first preseason game! Give him time before brining out the pitch forks!

      My point is that Winstons second year was more the real JW than his freshman year. He looks more like second year FSU Jamie's than the wonderkid.This was/is a concern.You saying otherwise doesn't change the fact that he looks like last year's version not the freshman jameis.It's not hate it is the truth.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      its preseason, Bucs kept things pretty vanilla on both sides of the ball

      this is a concept i've never agreed with as we've never been good enough to just flip the switch week 1. Do what you do.....and do it well has always been my motto. What exactly are we hiding?

      Remember last season when we thought they were hiding the true offense during preseason games? It was the same slop when the regular season began. It even got more comical as the season went on.

      it's been that way forever, regardless of coaching or personnel.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1176

      its preseason, Bucs kept things pretty vanilla on both sides of the ball

      this is a concept i've never agreed with as we've never been good enough to just flip the switch week 1. Do what you do.....and do it well has always been my motto. What exactly are we hiding?

      Remember last season when we thought they were hiding the true offense during preseason games? It was the same slop when the regular season began. It even got more comical as the season went on.

      it's been that way forever, regardless of coaching or personnel.

      Are we the only modern day team that still does this? Is there a Bucs rule book or something that they must follow this certain protocol every season no matter what?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      I'm not going to defend Winston's play. He was fairly inaccurate at times and made errors. But honestly, I expected that. But his teammates sure did not give him much help. The kick and punt return game was abysmal and gave Winston very poor field position the entire first half. He still managed to lead two drives of more than 60 yards. The sack he took was completely not his fault. I think refs missed two blatant penalties on Bucs receivers. His center fired one snap over his head. I saw enough from Winston that I think there is a lot to be optimistic about. He is a very smart kid and will learn from every game he plays. I was happy to see he faced quite a few different scenarios, looked pretty mobile when he had to be, made some strong throws, and did not make too many blatant errors. I'm keeping the faith. He needs more help from his team.

      Its one freaking preseason game.

      A rookies first live action, on the road, against a team who already had a game (they won) under their belt. No excuses for Winston to not look like Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers. He's a complete bust because he wasn't perfect right out the gate.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1176

      I'm not going to defend Winston's play. He was fairly inaccurate at times and made errors. But honestly, I expected that. But his teammates sure did not give him much help. The kick and punt return game was abysmal and gave Winston very poor field position the entire first half. He still managed to lead two drives of more than 60 yards. The sack he took was completely not his fault. I think refs missed two blatant penalties on Bucs receivers. His center fired one snap over his head. I saw enough from Winston that I think there is a lot to be optimistic about. He is a very smart kid and will learn from every game he plays. I was happy to see he faced quite a few different scenarios, looked pretty mobile when he had to be, made some strong throws, and did not make too many blatant errors. I'm keeping the faith. He needs more help from his team.

      Its one freaking preseason game.

      A rookies first live action, on the road, against a team who already had a game (they won) under their belt. No excuses for Winston to not look like Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers. He's a complete bust because he wasn't perfect right out the gate.

      I think most people understand it was his first live fire. I'm sure Winston will appreciate your loyalty as the season moves forward when the flames get more intense around here.

      Please wait…

    • bucfan75

      Participant
      Post count: 226

      Slow starting pick machine.That's what Winston was last year at FSU.Does anyone claim that he has changed anything outside of the umiform?

      I hate this comparison... He was not that the year he won a title and the Heisman!! One year does not define a person especially if they have shown different. Winston looked indecisive, rushed, and inaccurate, all things that he is not. Regardless of how many haters, Bucs fans included, want him to fail for there own agenda, he will eventually prove you wrong!This kid will not stop until he is the best, he will not stop working, he will learn from this game. In all honesty, I wish he did worse so he could learn from it, his teammates could learn from it and everyone would remember what it feels like and come together.It was the first preseason game! Give him time before brining out the pitch forks!

      My point is that Winstons second year was more the real JW than his freshman year. He looks more like second year FSU Jamie's than the wonderkid.This was/is a concern.You saying otherwise doesn't change the fact that he looks like last year's version not the freshman jameis.It's not hate it is the truth.

      You do realize that second year Winston is still better than Senior Glennon or Senior Matt Ryan or Senior Drew Brees?And let's not get started on second year Glennon, Ryan, or Brees...Like, you do understand that talking about "second year Winston" is not some kind of slight, right?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      I'm not going to defend Winston's play. He was fairly inaccurate at times and made errors. But honestly, I expected that. But his teammates sure did not give him much help. The kick and punt return game was abysmal and gave Winston very poor field position the entire first half. He still managed to lead two drives of more than 60 yards. The sack he took was completely not his fault. I think refs missed two blatant penalties on Bucs receivers. His center fired one snap over his head. I saw enough from Winston that I think there is a lot to be optimistic about. He is a very smart kid and will learn from every game he plays. I was happy to see he faced quite a few different scenarios, looked pretty mobile when he had to be, made some strong throws, and did not make too many blatant errors. I'm keeping the faith. He needs more help from his team.

      Its one freaking preseason game.

      A rookies first live action, on the road, against a team who already had a game (they won) under their belt. No excuses for Winston to not look like Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers. He's a complete bust because he wasn't perfect right out the gate.

      I think most people understand it was his first live fire. I'm sure Winston will appreciate your loyalty as the season moves forward when the flames get more intense around here.

      Don't get me wrong, I'll call the guy out if it's warranted, that wasn't the best start but he settled down and showed some real potential. If he keeps making the same mistakes he made "early on" (that's gonna wind someone up) it's an issue, if he learn from it then it's all good. For me this year is a write off in that it's a learning year but I expect to see improvement as the season goes on.I will say though, wasn't it nice to see a Buc QB go for the 1st down/TD rather than pull up scared when running.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Slow starting pick machine.That's what Winston was last year at FSU.Does anyone claim that he has changed anything outside of the umiform?

      I hate this comparison... He was not that the year he won a title and the Heisman!! One year does not define a person especially if they have shown different. Winston looked indecisive, rushed, and inaccurate, all things that he is not. Regardless of how many haters, Bucs fans included, want him to fail for there own agenda, he will eventually prove you wrong!This kid will not stop until he is the best, he will not stop working, he will learn from this game. In all honesty, I wish he did worse so he could learn from it, his teammates could learn from it and everyone would remember what it feels like and come together.It was the first preseason game! Give him time before brining out the pitch forks!

      My point is that Winstons second year was more the real JW than his freshman year. He looks more like second year FSU Jamie's than the wonderkid.This was/is a concern.You saying otherwise doesn't change the fact that he looks like last year's version not the freshman jameis.It's not hate it is the truth.

      You do realize that second year Winston is still better than Senior Glennon or Senior Matt Ryan or Senior Drew Brees?

      I'm kinda bummed that the Glennon did nothing to increase his trade value. The guy that some feel should be starting now should've been able to carve up guys who won't be in the league in a few weeks.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1176

      I'm not going to defend Winston's play. He was fairly inaccurate at times and made errors. But honestly, I expected that. But his teammates sure did not give him much help. The kick and punt return game was abysmal and gave Winston very poor field position the entire first half. He still managed to lead two drives of more than 60 yards. The sack he took was completely not his fault. I think refs missed two blatant penalties on Bucs receivers. His center fired one snap over his head. I saw enough from Winston that I think there is a lot to be optimistic about. He is a very smart kid and will learn from every game he plays. I was happy to see he faced quite a few different scenarios, looked pretty mobile when he had to be, made some strong throws, and did not make too many blatant errors. I'm keeping the faith. He needs more help from his team.

      Its one freaking preseason game.

      A rookies first live action, on the road, against a team who already had a game (they won) under their belt. No excuses for Winston to not look like Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers. He's a complete bust because he wasn't perfect right out the gate.

      I think most people understand it was his first live fire. I'm sure Winston will appreciate your loyalty as the season moves forward when the flames get more intense around here.

      Don't get me wrong, I'll call the guy out if it's warranted, that wasn't the best start but he settled down and showed some real potential. If he keeps making the same mistakes he made "early on" (that's gonna wind someone up) it's an issue, if he learn from it then it's all good. For me this year is a write off in that it's a learning year but I expect to see improvement as the season goes on.I will say though, wasn't it nice to see a Buc QB go for the 1st down/TD rather than pull up scared when running.

      He might want to work on his slide. He took a shot to the head on one play by going in head first. No need to get your bell rung.

      Please wait…

    • snidley

      Participant
      Post count: 415

      Slow starting pick machine.That's what Winston was last year at FSU.Does anyone claim that he has changed anything outside of the umiform?

      I hate this comparison... He was not that the year he won a title and the Heisman!! One year does not define a person especially if they have shown different. Winston looked indecisive, rushed, and inaccurate, all things that he is not. Regardless of how many haters, Bucs fans included, want him to fail for there own agenda, he will eventually prove you wrong!This kid will not stop until he is the best, he will not stop working, he will learn from this game. In all honesty, I wish he did worse so he could learn from it, his teammates could learn from it and everyone would remember what it feels like and come together.It was the first preseason game! Give him time before brining out the pitch forks!

      My point is that Winstons second year was more the real JW than his freshman year. He looks more like second year FSU Jamie's than the wonderkid.This was/is a concern.You saying otherwise doesn't change the fact that he looks like last year's version not the freshman jameis.It's not hate it is the truth.

      I get your point, but you missed mine which explains why you are wrong and must not have watched much of Jameis year 1 or 2. Jameis did not look like Jameis year 1 or 2 last night. He was timid, unsure of himself and his passes reflected that. He was not accurate on simple passed he usually strokes and steps into on the money. There is much more going on here then a new QB and new offense. These guys have to become cohesive and develop that silent communication that comes with time in the heat of play. The same one that Winston had with Kelvin Benjamin and Rashad Greene. He didn't have that his true freshmen or even the beginning of his 2013 season but by mid season they were clicking and knew what each were going to do.let them develop because they do, fire the cannons!!!!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 504

      I'm not going to defend Winston's play. He was fairly inaccurate at times and made errors. But honestly, I expected that. But his teammates sure did not give him much help. The kick and punt return game was abysmal and gave Winston very poor field position the entire first half. He still managed to lead two drives of more than 60 yards. The sack he took was completely not his fault. I think refs missed two blatant penalties on Bucs receivers. His center fired one snap over his head. I saw enough from Winston that I think there is a lot to be optimistic about. He is a very smart kid and will learn from every game he plays. I was happy to see he faced quite a few different scenarios, looked pretty mobile when he had to be, made some strong throws, and did not make too many blatant errors. I'm keeping the faith. He needs more help from his team.

      If he can show improvement from game to game then that is all I can ask for.

      Please wait…

    • snidley

      Participant
      Post count: 415

      I hate this comparison... He was not that the year he won a title and the Heisman!! One year does not define a person especially if they have shown different. Winston looked indecisive, rushed, and inaccurate, all things that he is not.

      That could also be applied to his freshman season.

      Your right, could be applied both ways. Two different years, two different teams, with different mind sets, both with successful results. I would say that one successful year at FSU does not define Jameis BUT he has been successful in every year and every sport he has ever played. Do you think he will buck that trend somehow?? I don't think so but people sure do around here...

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      He was timid, unsure of himself and his passes reflected that.

      what was timid?  i thought he was sure of himself, firing the ball down the field, tucking and running.  i thought he knew where he wanted to go and went there.  now was it always the right decision?  was it accurate?  no and no.  but i didnt see timid.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      I’m far less concerned with Winston than I am the totality of the performance of the team last night. Too many issues which were problems last season showed up again. I get the one preseason game thing but until it's demonstrated that things have changed, it will remain a concern of mine.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 69

      Nobody is mentioning that third down throw to VJax was fit in perfectly and broken up at last second. But watch the replay. Jackson tries to let it come in and hit him in the pads. That is what allows a literally last second break up. If VJax comes out with his hands and makes the diamond that ball could have been caught to give us 1st and goal. Really disappointed that a veteran like Jackson catches with his pads as much as he does.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      Slow starting pick machine.That's what Winston was last year at FSU.Does anyone claim that he has changed anything outside of the umiform?

      I hate this comparison... He was not that the year he won a title and the Heisman!! One year does not define a person especially if they have shown different. Winston looked indecisive, rushed, and inaccurate, all things that he is not. Regardless of how many haters, Bucs fans included, want him to fail for there own agenda, he will eventually prove you wrong!This kid will not stop until he is the best, he will not stop working, he will learn from this game. In all honesty, I wish he did worse so he could learn from it, his teammates could learn from it and everyone would remember what it feels like and come together.It was the first preseason game! Give him time before brining out the pitch forks!

      My point is that Winstons second year was more the real JW than his freshman year. He looks more like second year FSU Jamie's than the wonderkid.This was/is a concern.You saying otherwise doesn't change the fact that he looks like last year's version not the freshman jameis.It's not hate it is the truth.

      You do realize that second year Winston is still better than Senior Glennon or Senior Matt Ryan or Senior Drew Brees?

      I'm kinda bummed that the Glennon did nothing to increase his trade value. The guy that some feel should be starting now should've been able to carve up guys who won't be in the league in a few weeks.

      You mean like when he was throwing to WRs who won't be in the league in a few weeks and they dropped the passes? Or when he had to roll out of the pocket and the WR failed to come back to the QB to give him a target for a 1st down pass? I guess Mike could have forced the pass into coverage for an INT like Winston did instead of throwing it away as Winston should have. Also you must have missed the nice passes Mike had in the game.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      They did have Dotson in the game later than most would have liked… “to protect the starter”.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2275

      Waynes was mugging all the WRs he went against. He should’ve been flagged every play.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      You mean like when he was throwing to WRs who won't be in the league in a few weeks and they dropped the passes? Or when he had to roll out of the pocket and the WR failed to come back to the QB to give him a target for a 1st down pass? I guess Mike could have forced the pass into coverage for an INT like Winston did instead of throwing it away as Winston should have. Also you must have missed the nice passes Mike had in the game.

      The INT Winston threw was the right read to an open receiver who may have been held. He over threw it. Not a force at all.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      You mean like when he was throwing to WRs who won't be in the league in a few weeks and they dropped the passes? Or when he had to roll out of the pocket and the WR failed to come back to the QB to give him a target for a 1st down pass? I guess Mike could have forced the pass into coverage for an INT like Winston did instead of throwing it away as Winston should have. Also you must have missed the nice passes Mike had in the game.

      The INT Winston threw was the right read to an open receiver who may have been held. He over threw it. Not a force at all.

      It was a bad throw any way you look at it.

      Please wait…

    • bucfan75

      Participant
      Post count: 226

      You mean like when he was throwing to WRs who won't be in the league in a few weeks and they dropped the passes? Or when he had to roll out of the pocket and the WR failed to come back to the QB to give him a target for a 1st down pass? I guess Mike could have forced the pass into coverage for an INT like Winston did instead of throwing it away as Winston should have. Also you must have missed the nice passes Mike had in the game.

      The INT Winston threw was the right read to an open receiver who may have been held. He over threw it. Not a force at all.

      It was a bad throw any way you look at it.

      Didn't you say that Glennon would be the game one starter, and didn't you place a bet with someone? 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      You mean like when he was throwing to WRs who won't be in the league in a few weeks and they dropped the passes? Or when he had to roll out of the pocket and the WR failed to come back to the QB to give him a target for a 1st down pass? I guess Mike could have forced the pass into coverage for an INT like Winston did instead of throwing it away as Winston should have. Also you must have missed the nice passes Mike had in the game.

      The INT Winston threw was the right read to an open receiver who may have been held. He over threw it. Not a force at all.

      It was a bad throw any way you look at it.

      Exactly. Not a forced throw which should have been thrown away....kind of like you said.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 108

      You mean like when he was throwing to WRs who won't be in the league in a few weeks and they dropped the passes? Or when he had to roll out of the pocket and the WR failed to come back to the QB to give him a target for a 1st down pass? I guess Mike could have forced the pass into coverage for an INT like Winston did instead of throwing it away as Winston should have. Also you must have missed the nice passes Mike had in the game.

      The INT Winston threw was the right read to an open receiver who may have been held. He over threw it. Not a force at all.

      It was a bad throw any way you look at it.

      Exactly. Not a forced throw which should have been thrown away....kind of like you said.

      I've watched it numerous times slow mo and it is really hard to say that it was a bad throw based on the mugging Evans got (he couldn't raise one arm and only got the other one up half way, while stumbling) and the camera angle isn't telling the full story.It was at the very least a good decision while the pass may have been a little off, but not by much if it was at all.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 188

      I find this funny how the team didn’t do anything for Winston and its the same thing we had last year for Glennon. Well back to be the NFL’s farm team. Oh well its only pre season can’t wait to see the rest.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      You mean like when he was throwing to WRs who won't be in the league in a few weeks and they dropped the passes? Or when he had to roll out of the pocket and the WR failed to come back to the QB to give him a target for a 1st down pass? I guess Mike could have forced the pass into coverage for an INT like Winston did instead of throwing it away as Winston should have. Also you must have missed the nice passes Mike had in the game.

      The INT Winston threw was the right read to an open receiver who may have been held. He over threw it. Not a force at all.

      It was a bad throw any way you look at it.

      Didn't you say that Glennon would be the game one starter, and didn't you place a bet with someone?

      Yes

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      I find this funny how the team didn't do anything for Winston and its the same thing we had last year for Glennon. Well back to be the NFL's farm team. Oh well its only pre season can't wait to see the rest.

      Let's hope things start looking up so we don't have another season like the last. We knew going into the season there was much work to do regardless who the QB was going to be.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      You mean like when he was throwing to WRs who won't be in the league in a few weeks and they dropped the passes? Or when he had to roll out of the pocket and the WR failed to come back to the QB to give him a target for a 1st down pass? I guess Mike could have forced the pass into coverage for an INT like Winston did instead of throwing it away as Winston should have. Also you must have missed the nice passes Mike had in the game.

      The INT Winston threw was the right read to an open receiver who may have been held. He over threw it. Not a force at all.

      It was a bad throw any way you look at it.

      Exactly. Not a forced throw which should have been thrown away....kind of like you said.

      I've watched it numerous times slow mo and it is really hard to say that it was a bad throw based on the mugging Evans got (he couldn't raise one arm and only got the other one up half way, while stumbling) and the camera angle isn't telling the full story.It was at the very least a good decision while the pass may have been a little off, but not by much if it was at all.

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Well...I went back and looked at it again myself and it was a lot more clear that Evans was being held and the ball was more on target than I thought. Even the Vikes announcer said that Munnerlyn got away with a hold.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Well...I went back and looked at it again myself and it was a lot more clear that Evans was being held and the ball was more on target than I thought. Even the Vikes announcer said that Munnerlyn got away with a hold.

      Winston will learn to look off the DB in the NFL if he wants to make this throw. He missed the same throw behind Evans in the first quarter.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Well...I went back and looked at it again myself and it was a lot more clear that Evans was being held and the ball was more on target than I thought. Even the Vikes announcer said that Munnerlyn got away with a hold.

      Winston will learn to look off the DB in the NFL if he wants to make this throw. He missed the same throw behind Evans in the first quarter.

      There's no looking off on this throw. 5 steps stick throw. That's all. So far, it's not a force, not a ball that should be thrown away, not a play the QB looks a safety off or nearly anything else you're attempting to read into it. It was a throw that was off, with the only question by how much since Evans was being held from making a play on the ball.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Well...I went back and looked at it again myself and it was a lot more clear that Evans was being held and the ball was more on target than I thought. Even the Vikes announcer said that Munnerlyn got away with a hold.

      Winston will learn to look off the DB in the NFL if he wants to make this throw. He missed the same throw behind Evans in the first quarter.

      There's no looking off on this throw. 5 steps stick throw. That's all. So far, it's not a force, not a ball that should be thrown away, not a play the QB looks a safety off or nearly anything else you're attempting to read into it. It was a throw that was off, with the only question by how much since Evans was being held from making a play on the ball.

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      That throw, as you said earlier, is a timing throw. There is no time nor element to or of looking off the Safety on this particular pattern. So if Brees was referring to looking off a safety it was not on that short of a route. You've been nearly universally wrong on this single play other than the very simple fact that the throw may have been a bit high. Quit while you're behind.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 108

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Well...I went back and looked at it again myself and it was a lot more clear that Evans was being held and the ball was more on target than I thought. Even the Vikes announcer said that Munnerlyn got away with a hold.

      Winston will learn to look off the DB in the NFL if he wants to make this throw. He missed the same throw behind Evans in the first quarter.

      There's no looking off on this throw. 5 steps stick throw. That's all. So far, it's not a force, not a ball that should be thrown away, not a play the QB looks a safety off or nearly anything else you're attempting to read into it. It was a throw that was off, with the only question by how much since Evans was being held from making a play on the ball.

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      QB's look off to move the safeties, not the DB in man coverage...The safety caught the INT, but not because he wasn't "looked off", it was a gift due to Evans being hog tied by the DB.The refs gifted that INT, the tape doesn't lie

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      That throw, as you said earlier, is a timing throw. There is no time nor element to or of looking off the Safety on this particular pattern. So if Brees was referring to looking off a safety it was not on that short of a route. You've been nearly universally wrong on this single play other than the very simple fact that the throw may have been a bit high. Quit while you're behind.

      Here is a video for you to look at regarding the 5 step drop. The QB should never stare down the WR as Winston did. Watch Drew's eyes prior to the pass. I'm not as behind as you think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdYo5X_QA-w

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Well...I went back and looked at it again myself and it was a lot more clear that Evans was being held and the ball was more on target than I thought. Even the Vikes announcer said that Munnerlyn got away with a hold.

      Winston will learn to look off the DB in the NFL if he wants to make this throw. He missed the same throw behind Evans in the first quarter.

      There's no looking off on this throw. 5 steps stick throw. That's all. So far, it's not a force, not a ball that should be thrown away, not a play the QB looks a safety off or nearly anything else you're attempting to read into it. It was a throw that was off, with the only question by how much since Evans was being held from making a play on the ball.

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      QB's look off to move the safeties, not the DB in man coverage...The safety caught the INT, but not because he wasn't "looked off", it was a gift due to Evans being hog tied by the DB.The refs gifted that INT, the tape doesn't lie

      I was talking about the safety. Is he not a DB? The CB was in man coverage.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1176

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Well...I went back and looked at it again myself and it was a lot more clear that Evans was being held and the ball was more on target than I thought. Even the Vikes announcer said that Munnerlyn got away with a hold.

      Winston will learn to look off the DB in the NFL if he wants to make this throw. He missed the same throw behind Evans in the first quarter.

      There's no looking off on this throw. 5 steps stick throw. That's all. So far, it's not a force, not a ball that should be thrown away, not a play the QB looks a safety off or nearly anything else you're attempting to read into it. It was a throw that was off, with the only question by how much since Evans was being held from making a play on the ball.

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      QB's look off to move the safeties, not the DB in man coverage...The safety caught the INT, but not because he wasn't "looked off", it was a gift due to Evans being hog tied by the DB.The refs gifted that INT, the tape doesn't lie

      I was talking about the safety. Is he not a DB? The CB was in man coverage.

      It looks like Mooch and the Total Access crew agree with you. They said almost the same thing you did during the game highlights. Now get ready for some of these dudes to try to discredit Mooch. You've got to love this stuff.http://www.buccaneers.com/videos/videos/Pre-Week-1-Buccaneers-vs-Vikings-Highlights/22b59b1b-da75-4270-a69d-4bad050471dc

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      Slow starting pick machine.That's what Winston was last year at FSU.Does anyone claim that he has changed anything outside of the umiform?

      I hate this comparison... He was not that the year he won a title and the Heisman!! One year does not define a person especially if they have shown different. Winston looked indecisive, rushed, and inaccurate, all things that he is not. Regardless of how many haters, Bucs fans included, want him to fail for there own agenda, he will eventually prove you wrong!This kid will not stop until he is the best, he will not stop working, he will learn from this game. In all honesty, I wish he did worse so he could learn from it, his teammates could learn from it and everyone would remember what it feels like and come together.It was the first preseason game! Give him time before brining out the pitch forks!

      My point is that Winstons second year was more the real JW than his freshman year. He looks more like second year FSU Jamie's than the wonderkid.This was/is a concern.You saying otherwise doesn't change the fact that he looks like last year's version not the freshman jameis.It's not hate it is the truth.

      You do realize that second year Winston is still better than Senior Glennon or Senior Matt Ryan or Senior Drew Brees?

      I'm kinda bummed that the Glennon did nothing to increase his trade value. The guy that some feel should be starting now should've been able to carve up guys who won't be in the league in a few weeks.

      I watched the game intently, like everyone else. In summary, it was the first pre-season game so I will put very little stock in the outcome. But some things are obvious and beat to death: sh!tty Oline play, no edge rush/pressure and a TON of rookie jitters. We played against a 7-9 last year team, who had one game under their belt already, so I expected a loss. I will remain patient this year, temper my expectations about the Oline and Dline mess. Two more Oline draftees and two more edge rushers next year should be the focus. But here is some sunshine and that in the two minute drill Winston, looked the part. There was focus, energy, production, direction, 76 yd drive and a Winston touchdown run (which is good, should keep the defense honest next time). The Bucs will struggle mightily this year but no more 35-0 in ten minutes blow outs. What we should see is a PROGRESSION of performance and continuity, building for next year. ALL of the players that are not in the Bucs future plans (read next year and beyond, should be loaded on a bus and cut/ traded/ shot or something. Gilkey, Koenen, Glennon, EDS, Bowers....even Dotson (Love the guy but he ain't the one). Play the hell out of Smith/Marpet/Edwards/Parmalile and yes Mankins to school the young guys. That way, next year with two more high picks, they will be entering a battle tested group. JMHO!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      its preseason, Bucs kept things pretty vanilla on both sides of the ball, more about evaluating talent then coaching and scheming to win a game

      The problem is we looked pretty bad executing even vanilla type plays.  Probably speaks more to the lack of depth this team has than anything.

      Hard to look good against a team if you're playing vanilla and they're running stunts....The Bucs didn't bother to game plan this team....it's too early and a lot of the plays have not been installed...The Vikes had a headstart in training camp so this was expected...

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      That throw, as you said earlier, is a timing throw. There is no time nor element to or of looking off the Safety on this particular pattern. So if Brees was referring to looking off a safety it was not on that short of a route. You've been nearly universally wrong on this single play other than the very simple fact that the throw may have been a bit high. Quit while you're behind.

      Here is a video for you to look at regarding the 5 step drop. The QB should never stare down the WR as Winston did. Watch Drew's eyes prior to the pass. I'm not as behind as you think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdYo5X_QA-w

      When Brees was a rookie he probably stared down a WR or two...It's an invalid comparison...

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      That throw, as you said earlier, is a timing throw. There is no time nor element to or of looking off the Safety on this particular pattern. So if Brees was referring to looking off a safety it was not on that short of a route. You've been nearly universally wrong on this single play other than the very simple fact that the throw may have been a bit high. Quit while you're behind.

      Here is a video for you to look at regarding the 5 step drop. The QB should never stare down the WR as Winston did. Watch Drew's eyes prior to the pass. I'm not as behind as you think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdYo5X_QA-w

      Not comparable. Try again.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      I would assume the optimal play for the quarterback if he reads presnap that is where he wants to go is to take the snap looking directly at the safety on that side of the field.  Eye (censored) him a bit and see if you can keep him flat footed for half a second.  He is also going to have to locate at least one LB and take a glance at the man coverage release.  He has like 2 seconds to get that ball out on time.  My bet is locating LBs in coverage is taking more than the half second the perfect play has allotted for that portion of the read.  But yeah, holding that safety a tic is probably what turns that quick seam into 6 points when you hit it.*Also, looking off is something you do when you know exactly where your receiver will be when you take that last second glance for him.  I don't think you will often see veteran quarterbacks on new teams (new receivers/offense) looking off defenders in their first preseason game with their new teams.  If that doesn't come with time we should become concerned.  Jameis has been reputed to be the kind of student of the game I would expect to start influencing defenses with his eyes (to our benefit).*

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1784

      Things I liked/disliked about Winston.Liked: Great armResiliency and stayed positive after slow start. Command of huddle looked goodAudibles were goodThat he stayed in for a full first half. Needs to get reps. Showed some nice mobilityDisliked:Long wind up. Looks like Leftwich a bit. Inaccurate passes on wide open receivers. Dove head first on his touchdown. He looked a little nervous. I think hes got some pretty big upside. He can get better and I think he will. He has the work ethic and drive to get better. However needs to clean up some of the things I disliked. If he does I think we will have a pretty good one here in TB.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 108

      Things I liked/disliked about Winston.Liked: Great armResiliency and stayed positive after slow start. Command of huddle looked goodAudibles were goodThat he stayed in for a full first half. Needs to get reps. Showed some nice mobilityDisliked:Long wind up. Looks like Leftwich a bit. Inaccurate passes on wide open receivers. Dove head first on his touchdown. He looked a little nervous. I think hes got some pretty big upside. He can get better and I think he will. He has the work ethic and drive to get better. However needs to clean up some of the things I disliked. If he does I think we will have a pretty good one here in TB.

      Something to add to the like column for me...he didn't get rattled and kept his eyes down field when pressure was coming...On the beautiful deep out pass to Murphy along the right side line there was an unblocked defender barreling down on him. I thought it was his best play of the night

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      Slow starting pick machine.That's what Winston was last year at FSU.Does anyone claim that he has changed anything outside of the umiform?

      I hate this comparison... He was not that the year he won a title and the Heisman!! One year does not define a person especially if they have shown different. Winston looked indecisive, rushed, and inaccurate, all things that he is not. Regardless of how many haters, Bucs fans included, want him to fail for there own agenda, he will eventually prove you wrong!This kid will not stop until he is the best, he will not stop working, he will learn from this game. In all honesty, I wish he did worse so he could learn from it, his teammates could learn from it and everyone would remember what it feels like and come together.It was the first preseason game! Give him time before brining out the pitch forks!

      My point is that Winstons second year was more the real JW than his freshman year. He looks more like second year FSU Jamie's than the wonderkid.This was/is a concern.You saying otherwise doesn't change the fact that he looks like last year's version not the freshman jameis.It's not hate it is the truth.

      How do you know that Winston's second year at FSU is a better indication as to what to expect.  Not that I would be too disappointed with one loss a year...

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      Slow starting pick machine.That's what Winston was last year at FSU.Does anyone claim that he has changed anything outside of the umiform?

      I hate this comparison... He was not that the year he won a title and the Heisman!! One year does not define a person especially if they have shown different. Winston looked indecisive, rushed, and inaccurate, all things that he is not. Regardless of how many haters, Bucs fans included, want him to fail for there own agenda, he will eventually prove you wrong!This kid will not stop until he is the best, he will not stop working, he will learn from this game. In all honesty, I wish he did worse so he could learn from it, his teammates could learn from it and everyone would remember what it feels like and come together.It was the first preseason game! Give him time before brining out the pitch forks!

      My point is that Winstons second year was more the real JW than his freshman year. He looks more like second year FSU Jamie's than the wonderkid.This was/is a concern.You saying otherwise doesn't change the fact that he looks like last year's version not the freshman jameis.It's not hate it is the truth.

      How do you know that Winston's second year at FSU is a better indication as to what to expect.  Not that I would be too disappointed with one loss a year...

      Slow starter.  18 picks.  He wasn't nearly as good last year as he was a RS freshman.  And if you think he can throw 18 picks and only have 1 loss, you are an idiot.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      That throw, as you said earlier, is a timing throw. There is no time nor element to or of looking off the Safety on this particular pattern. So if Brees was referring to looking off a safety it was not on that short of a route. You've been nearly universally wrong on this single play other than the very simple fact that the throw may have been a bit high. Quit while you're behind.

      Here is a video for you to look at regarding the 5 step drop. The QB should never stare down the WR as Winston did. Watch Drew's eyes prior to the pass. I'm not as behind as you think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdYo5X_QA-w

      When Brees was a rookie he probably stared down a WR or two...It's an invalid comparison...

      It was not being used for making a comparison. The other poster said you can't look off a safety on a 5 step drop. I was using this video to show you can. Nothing more. Winston will learn this in time. Some of you are a little high-strung regarding the Winston topic.

      There's no looking off on this throw. 5 steps stick throw. That's all.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Well...I went back and looked at it again myself and it was a lot more clear that Evans was being held and the ball was more on target than I thought. Even the Vikes announcer said that Munnerlyn got away with a hold.

      Winston will learn to look off the DB in the NFL if he wants to make this throw. He missed the same throw behind Evans in the first quarter.

      There's no looking off on this throw. 5 steps stick throw. That's all. So far, it's not a force, not a ball that should be thrown away, not a play the QB looks a safety off or nearly anything else you're attempting to read into it. It was a throw that was off, with the only question by how much since Evans was being held from making a play on the ball.

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      QB's look off to move the safeties, not the DB in man coverage...The safety caught the INT, but not because he wasn't "looked off", it was a gift due to Evans being hog tied by the DB.The refs gifted that INT, the tape doesn't lie

      I was talking about the safety. Is he not a DB? The CB was in man coverage.

      It looks like Mooch and the Total Access crew agree with you. They said almost the same thing you did during the game highlights. Now get ready for some of these dudes to try to discredit Mooch. You've got to love this stuff.http://www.buccaneers.com/videos/videos/Pre-Week-1-Buccaneers-vs-Vikings-Highlights/22b59b1b-da75-4270-a69d-4bad050471dc

      Thank you, RG.  :)

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 108

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Well...I went back and looked at it again myself and it was a lot more clear that Evans was being held and the ball was more on target than I thought. Even the Vikes announcer said that Munnerlyn got away with a hold.

      Winston will learn to look off the DB in the NFL if he wants to make this throw. He missed the same throw behind Evans in the first quarter.

      There's no looking off on this throw. 5 steps stick throw. That's all. So far, it's not a force, not a ball that should be thrown away, not a play the QB looks a safety off or nearly anything else you're attempting to read into it. It was a throw that was off, with the only question by how much since Evans was being held from making a play on the ball.

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      QB's look off to move the safeties, not the DB in man coverage...The safety caught the INT, but not because he wasn't "looked off", it was a gift due to Evans being hog tied by the DB.The refs gifted that INT, the tape doesn't lie

      I was talking about the safety. Is he not a DB? The CB was in man coverage.

      It looks like Mooch and the Total Access crew agree with you. They said almost the same thing you did during the game highlights. Now get ready for some of these dudes to try to discredit Mooch. You've got to love this stuff.http://www.buccaneers.com/videos/videos/Pre-Week-1-Buccaneers-vs-Vikings-Highlights/22b59b1b-da75-4270-a69d-4bad050471dc

      Thank you, RG.  :)

      I know we're beating this 'horse' up a lot, but out of curiosity, in which direction did you want Winston to look before passing to Evans?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Well...I went back and looked at it again myself and it was a lot more clear that Evans was being held and the ball was more on target than I thought. Even the Vikes announcer said that Munnerlyn got away with a hold.

      Winston will learn to look off the DB in the NFL if he wants to make this throw. He missed the same throw behind Evans in the first quarter.

      There's no looking off on this throw. 5 steps stick throw. That's all. So far, it's not a force, not a ball that should be thrown away, not a play the QB looks a safety off or nearly anything else you're attempting to read into it. It was a throw that was off, with the only question by how much since Evans was being held from making a play on the ball.

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      QB's look off to move the safeties, not the DB in man coverage...The safety caught the INT, but not because he wasn't "looked off", it was a gift due to Evans being hog tied by the DB.The refs gifted that INT, the tape doesn't lie

      I was talking about the safety. Is he not a DB? The CB was in man coverage.

      It looks like Mooch and the Total Access crew agree with you. They said almost the same thing you did during the game highlights. Now get ready for some of these dudes to try to discredit Mooch. You've got to love this stuff.http://www.buccaneers.com/videos/videos/Pre-Week-1-Buccaneers-vs-Vikings-Highlights/22b59b1b-da75-4270-a69d-4bad050471dc

      Thank you, RG.  :)

      I know we're beating this 'horse' up a lot, but out of curiosity, in which direction did you want Winston to look before passing to Evans?

      Can that be googled?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Well...I went back and looked at it again myself and it was a lot more clear that Evans was being held and the ball was more on target than I thought. Even the Vikes announcer said that Munnerlyn got away with a hold.

      Winston will learn to look off the DB in the NFL if he wants to make this throw. He missed the same throw behind Evans in the first quarter.

      There's no looking off on this throw. 5 steps stick throw. That's all. So far, it's not a force, not a ball that should be thrown away, not a play the QB looks a safety off or nearly anything else you're attempting to read into it. It was a throw that was off, with the only question by how much since Evans was being held from making a play on the ball.

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      QB's look off to move the safeties, not the DB in man coverage...The safety caught the INT, but not because he wasn't "looked off", it was a gift due to Evans being hog tied by the DB.The refs gifted that INT, the tape doesn't lie

      I was talking about the safety. Is he not a DB? The CB was in man coverage.

      It looks like Mooch and the Total Access crew agree with you. They said almost the same thing you did during the game highlights. Now get ready for some of these dudes to try to discredit Mooch. You've got to love this stuff.http://www.buccaneers.com/videos/videos/Pre-Week-1-Buccaneers-vs-Vikings-Highlights/22b59b1b-da75-4270-a69d-4bad050471dc

      Thank you, RG.  :)

      I know we're beating this 'horse' up a lot, but out of curiosity, in which direction did you want Winston to look before passing to Evans?

      He had a WR running a go up the middle. You can see it on one of the highlights. Just like the Brees video shows, he should have looked there first quickly to hold the safety for a second. This would have given the needed space to hit Evans. It would not have been a completed pass as the CB held Evans in this case, but it would have avoided a pick. I was mistaken earlier in this thread when I said Winston could have thrown it away. I had not had a chance to see any replays and was going on memory. I understand Winston is a rookie and should learn to make this throw in time. I don't see anything wrong with discussing how the play could have been successful. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Things I liked/disliked about Winston.Liked: Great armResiliency and stayed positive after slow start. Command of huddle looked goodAudibles were goodThat he stayed in for a full first half. Needs to get reps. Showed some nice mobilityDisliked:Long wind up. Looks like Leftwich a bit. Inaccurate passes on wide open receivers. Dove head first on his touchdown. He looked a little nervous. I think hes got some pretty big upside. He can get better and I think he will. He has the work ethic and drive to get better. However needs to clean up some of the things I disliked. If he does I think we will have a pretty good one here in TB.

      Something to add to the like column for me...he didn't get rattled and kept his eyes down field when pressure was coming...On the beautiful deep out pass to Murphy along the right side line there was an unblocked defender barreling down on him. I thought it was his best play of the night

      he definitely doesn't fold up like a pu$$y

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      Things I liked/disliked about Winston.Liked: Great armResiliency and stayed positive after slow start. Command of huddle looked goodAudibles were goodThat he stayed in for a full first half. Needs to get reps. Showed some nice mobilityDisliked:Long wind up. Looks like Leftwich a bit. Inaccurate passes on wide open receivers. Dove head first on his touchdown. He looked a little nervous. I think hes got some pretty big upside. He can get better and I think he will. He has the work ethic and drive to get better. However needs to clean up some of the things I disliked. If he does I think we will have a pretty good one here in TB.

      Something to add to the like column for me...he didn't get rattled and kept his eyes down field when pressure was coming...On the beautiful deep out pass to Murphy along the right side line there was an unblocked defender barreling down on him. I thought it was his best play of the night

      he definitely doesn't fold up like a pu$$y

      He better get used to abuse with our o-line.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Glennon had a chance to show he is a starter. How’d he do?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 108

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Well...I went back and looked at it again myself and it was a lot more clear that Evans was being held and the ball was more on target than I thought. Even the Vikes announcer said that Munnerlyn got away with a hold.

      Winston will learn to look off the DB in the NFL if he wants to make this throw. He missed the same throw behind Evans in the first quarter.

      There's no looking off on this throw. 5 steps stick throw. That's all. So far, it's not a force, not a ball that should be thrown away, not a play the QB looks a safety off or nearly anything else you're attempting to read into it. It was a throw that was off, with the only question by how much since Evans was being held from making a play on the ball.

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      QB's look off to move the safeties, not the DB in man coverage...The safety caught the INT, but not because he wasn't "looked off", it was a gift due to Evans being hog tied by the DB.The refs gifted that INT, the tape doesn't lie

      I was talking about the safety. Is he not a DB? The CB was in man coverage.

      It looks like Mooch and the Total Access crew agree with you. They said almost the same thing you did during the game highlights. Now get ready for some of these dudes to try to discredit Mooch. You've got to love this stuff.http://www.buccaneers.com/videos/videos/Pre-Week-1-Buccaneers-vs-Vikings-Highlights/22b59b1b-da75-4270-a69d-4bad050471dc

      Thank you, RG.  :)

      I know we're beating this 'horse' up a lot, but out of curiosity, in which direction did you want Winston to look before passing to Evans?

      He had a WR running a go up the middle. You can see it on one of the highlights. Just like the Brees video shows, he should have looked there first quickly to hold the safety for a second. This would have given the needed space to hit Evans. It would not have been a completed pass as the CB held Evans in this case, but it would have avoided a pick. I was mistaken earlier in this thread when I said Winston could have thrown it away. I had not had a chance to see any replays and was going on memory. I understand Winston is a rookie and should learn to make this throw in time. I don't see anything wrong with discussing how the play could have been successful.

      I'm with you now...I assumed there were 2 safeties covering the deep halves, but it was cover 3 and moving the deep middle DB to the left with a quick look off would have been the correct move.My thinking was that he was right to look where he did to keep the safety out of the middle of the field and between the 2 WRs.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3420

      I went back and looked at it. It was a timing pass. You either hit it spot on or it's going to get picked. This is the fine line in the NFL. There also was some contact on Evans.

      Well...I went back and looked at it again myself and it was a lot more clear that Evans was being held and the ball was more on target than I thought. Even the Vikes announcer said that Munnerlyn got away with a hold.

      Winston will learn to look off the DB in the NFL if he wants to make this throw. He missed the same throw behind Evans in the first quarter.

      There's no looking off on this throw. 5 steps stick throw. That's all. So far, it's not a force, not a ball that should be thrown away, not a play the QB looks a safety off or nearly anything else you're attempting to read into it. It was a throw that was off, with the only question by how much since Evans was being held from making a play on the ball.

      I heard Drew Brees talk about this before with a 5 step drop. In the NFL you have to look off the DB. You can't stare down the WR. Just saying what Brees said in an interview. I think I'll go with what he says.

      QB's look off to move the safeties, not the DB in man coverage...The safety caught the INT, but not because he wasn't "looked off", it was a gift due to Evans being hog tied by the DB.The refs gifted that INT, the tape doesn't lie

      I was talking about the safety. Is he not a DB? The CB was in man coverage.

      It looks like Mooch and the Total Access crew agree with you. They said almost the same thing you did during the game highlights. Now get ready for some of these dudes to try to discredit Mooch. You've got to love this stuff.http://www.buccaneers.com/videos/videos/Pre-Week-1-Buccaneers-vs-Vikings-Highlights/22b59b1b-da75-4270-a69d-4bad050471dc

      Thank you, RG.  :)

      I know we're beating this 'horse' up a lot, but out of curiosity, in which direction did you want Winston to look before passing to Evans?

      He had a WR running a go up the middle. You can see it on one of the highlights. Just like the Brees video shows, he should have looked there first quickly to hold the safety for a second. This would have given the needed space to hit Evans. It would not have been a completed pass as the CB held Evans in this case, but it would have avoided a pick. I was mistaken earlier in this thread when I said Winston could have thrown it away. I had not had a chance to see any replays and was going on memory. I understand Winston is a rookie and should learn to make this throw in time. I don't see anything wrong with discussing how the play could have been successful.

      I'm with you now...I assumed there were 2 safeties covering the deep halves, but it was cover 3 and moving the deep middle DB to the left with a quick look off would have been the correct move.My thinking was that he was right to look where he did to keep the safety out of the middle of the field and between the 2 WRs.

      I find it fun dissecting plays after Bucs games. I would sit with my dad just watching plays from the weeks game and trying to figure out why a play failed or was successful. I recommend reading a book written by Joe Montana titled Joe Montana's Art and Magic of Quarterbacking. I never got to play the game, so I try to learn about the game through the eyes of the greats.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 108

      I’m with ya BP1…I love Gamepass, especially the coaches film (all22)…It’s why I subscribe to it over Sunday ticket…Unfortunately they don’t include the coaches film during pre-season for some reason.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1571

      So I was out of pocket for a few days and had to record the game and watched it only recently.  I fully expected Winston’s first rookie start to be pretty bad.  He is a rookie after all.  I fully expected him to have the jitters and throw a few ducks along with a few “Who the hell were you throwing that to?” types of passes.  A few miscommunitcations- normal stuff.  What I saw was the same stuff that made me think he shouldn't be the first overall pick to begin with.  His very first NFL pass was into double coverage with an underneath guy that he apparently didn't see.  He was staring down recievers.  He still has a loooong windup and looks like he is throwing a baseball.  He is still forcing some throws.I'm really not trying to be all doom and gloom.  I fully expected his first start to be bad just because he is a rookie.  However, I had hoped to see both he and the team work more on some of the glaring problems he has had.  I hope they do.  He can have the highest football IQ ever and enough moxie to make the whole fanbase ready for war and it won't matter if he cannot overcome these flaws.Here's to hoping they focus on this stuff.

      Please wait…

    • suesweat

      Participant
      Post count: 1335

      So I was out of pocket for a few days and had to record the game and watched it only recently.  I fully expected Winston's first rookie start to be pretty bad.  He is a rookie after all.  I fully expected him to have the jitters and throw a few ducks along with a few "Who the hell were you throwing that to?" types of passes.  A few miscommunitcations- normal stuff.  What I saw was the same stuff that made me think he shouldn't be the first overall pick to begin with.  His very first NFL pass was into double coverage with an underneath guy that he apparently didn't see.  He was staring down recievers.  He still has a loooong windup and looks like he is throwing a baseball.  He is still forcing some throws.I'm really not trying to be all doom and gloom.  I fully expected his first start to be bad just because he is a rookie.  However, I had hoped to see both he and the team work more on some of the glaring problems he has had.  I hope they do.  He can have the highest football IQ ever and enough moxie to make the whole fanbase ready for war and it won't matter if he cannot overcome these flaws.Here's to hoping they focus on this stuff.

      Sounds like your talking about every Buc's QB in the last decade.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      A couple thoughts…These preseason games (or for that matter - any NFL game) is/are NOT all about Winston...  it's a team sport and the team needs to figure out who is who and what can they do in between the lines. JW needs to master his craft - that will take a great deal of time (and fan patience) and a lot of help from his offensive team mates.To watch a rookie QB's FIRST 30 PRE-SEASON MINUTES of NFL Football when all the players around him were being 'tried out' at different positions and make any sort of 'assessment' is asinine, incredibly premature and makes no sense. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      A couple thoughts...These preseason games (or for that matter - any NFL game) is/are NOT all about Winston...  it's a team sport and the team needs to figure out who is who and what can they do in between the lines. JW needs to master his craft - that will take a great deal of time (and fan patience) and a lot of help from his offensive team mates.To watch a rookie QB's FIRST 30 PRE-SEASON MINUTES of NFL Football when all the players around him were being 'tried out' at different positions and make any sort of 'assessment' is asinine, incredibly premature and makes no sense.

      Although I do agree with your statement, just imagine how this thread would have gone if Winston went 18 of 20 and 3 TD's no picks.  This 'not so great' performance by Winston that is not relevant, would of course then be quite relevant and proof positive that Winston is a God in QB clothing.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      It would mean something though.  People are saying his performance is not a big deal because it is expected for rookie quarterbacks in their first preseason action to look that way. Had he come out looking like a veteran quarterback, making all the reads and throws, we would be super pumped because that is extremely abnormal for a rookie quarterback playing in his first preseason game.  I would absolutely celebrate exceptionalism, without regret or apology.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      It would mean something though.  People are saying his performance is not a big deal because it is expected for rookie quarterbacks in their first preseason action to look that way. Had he come out looking like a veteran quarterback, making all the reads and throws, we would be super pumped because that is extremely abnormal for a rookie quarterback playing in his first preseason game.  I would absolutely celebrate exceptionalism, without regret or apology.

      And to be honest, I would be right their with you, albeit with a bit of hesitation.  Vanilla defense, pulled the starters, the moon was blue or whatever 'reasons' could be used to down play the performance.  My overall point is, and my position on Winston and any rookie QB, you have to give it two years to find out what you really have.  RG3 was very good his first year. Peyton Manning wasn't.  But I think after their second year, then we can safely say what type of long term QB the player is.  One game, preseason or even in season does not tell us much. 

      Please wait…

    • suesweat

      Participant
      Post count: 1335

      It would mean something though.  People are saying his performance is not a big deal because it is expected for rookie quarterbacks in their first preseason action to look that way. Had he come out looking like a veteran quarterback, making all the reads and throws, we would be super pumped because that is extremely abnormal for a rookie quarterback playing in his first preseason game.  I would absolutely celebrate exceptionalism, without regret or apology.

      And to be honest, I would be right their with you, albeit with a bit of hesitation.  Vanilla defense, pulled the starters, the moon was blue or whatever 'reasons' could be used to down play the performance.  My overall point is, and my position on Winston and any rookie QB, you have to give it two years to find out what you really have.  RG3 was very good his first year. Peyton Manning wasn't.  But I think after their second year, then we can safely say what type of long term QB the player is.  One game, preseason or even in season does not tell us much.

      One games does tell us something; who the clowns are here.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      It would mean something though.  People are saying his performance is not a big deal because it is expected for rookie quarterbacks in their first preseason action to look that way. Had he come out looking like a veteran quarterback, making all the reads and throws, we would be super pumped because that is extremely abnormal for a rookie quarterback playing in his first preseason game.  I would absolutely celebrate exceptionalism, without regret or apology.

      And to be honest, I would be right their with you, albeit with a bit of hesitation.  Vanilla defense, pulled the starters, the moon was blue or whatever 'reasons' could be used to down play the performance.  My overall point is, and my position on Winston and any rookie QB, you have to give it two years to find out what you really have.  RG3 was very good his first year. Peyton Manning wasn't.  But I think after their second year, then we can safely say what type of long term QB the player is.  One game, preseason or even in season does not tell us much.

      One games does tell us something; who the clowns are here.

      I haven't agreed with you on several items Mozzie, but you hit the nail on the head with this one.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      its preseason, Bucs kept things pretty vanilla on both sides of the ball, more about evaluating talent then coaching and scheming to win a game

      The problem is we looked pretty bad executing even vanilla type plays.  Probably speaks more to the lack of depth this team has than anything.

      It's hard to look good against a team that is a month ahead of you in preseason preparation offensively and defensively....

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 177

      Everybody falls the first time.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vlzKaH4mpw

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      If anything – his performance should be ‘humbling’ for the young man.    And in the competitive nature of a guy like him – increased motivation.I'm glad he stumbled...  reality 101.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 188

      I can’t wait now….its game on folks and now we get to see if its a dud or a stud time……Go Bucs and thank God for The record and Rewind buttons…OBD

      Please wait…

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