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    • Anonymous

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      Piney Point on the verge of going down, presently dumping 20,000 gallons per hour of HEAVILY POLLUTED water into Tampa Bay

    • Anonymous

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      From a 2003 . . . 2003 . . story in the Tampa Tribune

      “Published July 6, 2003

      The warning signs were clear: The Piney Point fertilizer plant was headed for disaster.

      State regulators knew in 1995 that the owner, Mulberry Corp., was struggling. If it went under, the state would be stuck with hundreds of millions of gallons of highly acidic wastewater in towering gypsum stacks perched on the edge of Tampa Bay.

      A review of hundreds of files by the St. Petersburg Times found that the state, instead of intervening, bent the rules by not closing the gypsum stacks as the law requires and by not acting on warnings that the owner was in financial trouble.

      A bad situation soon become dangerous. State officials finally took control in 2001 – after the owner walked away.”

    • Anonymous

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    • Anonymous

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      and of course never one to miss an opportunity to LIE . . . look at how DeSantis described the water pumping into the Bay

      Mixed saltwater?

      its HIGHLY ACIDIC industrial wastewater

    • Anonymous

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      “mixed saltwater”

    • Anonymous

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      “mixed saltwater”

      Here the actual manager including the part that DeSantis left out

      “Jeff Barath, a manager at HRK Holdings, has said the 77-acre pond holds a mix of seawater from an old dredging project and what’s called process water, a byproduct of phosphate mining for the fertilizer industry that contains nitrogen and phosphorus.

    • Anonymous

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    • spartan

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      Looks quite nasty and something to be concerned about, but …

      https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1419254/florida-reservoir-collapse-what-is-phosphogypsum-radioactive-phosphorus-piney-point-evg

      At Piney Point, officials have assured the water itself is not radioactive but there is still some concern over its contents.

      The water is believed to be primarily a mix of saltwater and stormwater with rainfall.

      Florida’s authorities have said the water meets the quality standards for marine waters.

      However, its pH levels – acidity – are somewhat out of the norm as are the total levels of phosphorus, nitrogen and ammonia nitrogen.

      I also don’t see how this is a GOP driven deregulation issue since the place closed down in 1999 and abandoned the plant in 2001. Jeb Bush became Governor in 1999, before that, with 2 deviations in 1967 and 1987, the State has had Democratic Governors uninterrupted since 1877.

    • Anonymous

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      Looks quite nasty and something to be concerned about, but …

      https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1419254/florida-reservoir-collapse-what-is-phosphogypsum-radioactive-phosphorus-piney-point-evg

      At Piney Point, officials have assured the water itself is not radioactive but there is still some concern over its contents.

      The water is believed to be primarily a mix of saltwater and stormwater with rainfall.

      Florida’s authorities have said the water meets the quality standards for marine waters.

      However, its pH levels – acidity – are somewhat out of the norm as are the total levels of phosphorus, nitrogen and ammonia nitrogen.

      I also don’t see how this is a GOP driven deregulation issue since the place closed down in 1999 and abandoned the plant in 2001. Jeb Bush became Governor in 1999, before that, with 2 deviations in 1967 and 1987, the State has had Democratic Governors uninterrupted since 1877.

      Lol. I don’t know why the term radioactive was used but it’s beyond stupid (or intentionally misleading) to say “mostly seawater” or “mostly rainwater” because of course that’s true (mostly water) but if it wasn’t polluted with phosphate and nitrogen it would’ve already been released lmao or releasing it now wouldn’t be a problem

      A Google-level curiosity would find plenty of info on the danger

      And yes deregulation is a GOP staple so no escaping that (in the real world). Maybe there’s some windmills to blame tho….

    • Anonymous

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      So the risk is two-fold. The water they are releasing is industrial waste (phosphate and nitrogen) so they are controlled dumping industrial waste from one tower to avoid the second risk which wound be the worse scenario, a rupture of the current tower taking out another tower more loaded other phosphogypdum, which is radioactive

      Both bad. One really bad though and hopefully averted

      “ There is some concern the reservoir’s breach could destabilise other holding ponds, which are believed to contain water contaminated with heavy metals.”

      • spartan

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        Post count: 1163

        There are apparently quite a few of these stacks dotted around Florida, so if they are radioactive, it can’t be that bad. It sounds, and I am by far not an expert on this, that its like going to dentist for a tooth xray. If you are exposed to it all day, every day you run the risk of experiencing an issue without precautions. Hell, technically cell phones are radio-active.

        With all that said, the biggest problem appears to be the fertilizer bit of this in conjunction with the time of year causing the “water” to not dissipate. It could a super bloom of algae which when it dies could cause problems such as a lack of oxygen in the water with the resulting fish die offs.

        It is problematic to be sure, but doesn’t seem quite as catastrophic and dire as it’s being made out to be. At least not from what I can see. With that said I can’t see myself going swimming in Tampa Bay this weekend.

    • spartan

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      Post count: 1163

      And yes deregulation is a GOP staple so no escaping that (in the real world).

      This place was abandoned before the Republicans took control of the reins of power, so even if they are “guilty” of deregulation, it would not appear to have been a factor into this.

    • Anonymous

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      And yes deregulation is a GOP staple so no escaping that (in the real world).

      This place was abandoned before the Republicans took control of the reins of power, so even if they are “guilty” of deregulation, it would not appear to have been a factor into this.

      Lol. Right

      Because it’s just abandoning that’s the problem

      Trump tried to dismantle the EPA

    • Anonymous

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      2001 state tales control

      2003 article

      https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2003/07/06/bending-the-rules-at-piney-point-a-140-million-mess/

      Governor

      Senate

      House

      Gop in those years, the years described in article

    • spartan

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      Post count: 1163

      2001 state tales control

      Kinda, sorta, did but didn’t.

      Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying there isn’t A problem, all I am contradicting you about is that deregulation was THE problem. As far as I can see that has nothing to do with it. I am not trying to make some kind of argument about free markets blah, blah, blah, just saying that I have seen nothing that suggests that it has anything to do with the situation at all. If you know of something different I will be happy to listen.

      This started and was allowed to happen by Democrats while they ran the State, then Republicans stuck their head in the sand and repeatedly kicked the can down the road. My read is nobody wanted to foot the bill that it would take to properly clean the mess up. So there is plenty of blame to spread around, including the EPA by the way.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      2001 state tales control

      Kinda, sorta, did but didn’t.

      Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying there isn’t A problem, all I am contradicting you about is that deregulation was THE problem. As far as I can see that has nothing to do with it. I am not trying to make some kind of argument about free markets blah, blah, blah, just saying that I have seen nothing that suggests that it has anything to do with the situation at all. If you know of something different I will be happy to listen.

      This started and was allowed to happen by Democrats while they ran the State, then Republicans stuck their head in the sand and repeatedly kicked the can down the road. My read is nobody wanted to foot the bill that it would take to properly clean the mess up. So there is plenty of blame to spread around, including the EPA by the way.

      I get your point and to be fair I am using “deregulation” in the general sense of pro-business laissez faire, as opposed to a specific claim like “in 2003 when the GOP controlled the FL legislature they repeal regulation 1234 and that . ..”

      I only mean that the state takes control in 2001 (Bush?) and has about 20 years of heavy GOP dominance and they kick the can etc.

      In other words you cannot generally be for dismantling environmental regulation and cutting all taxes and then not take some hit when stuff like this happens.

    • spartan

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      Post count: 1163

      In other words you cannot generally be for dismantling environmental regulation and cutting all taxes and then not take some hit when stuff like this happens.

      It is, as they say, complicated.

      As I have pointed out in the not too distant past, I am somewhat of a conservationist. But I also believe there needs to be a balance. There was a movie a while back where a company was disposing of toxic materials in a local mine because it was cheaper than doing it properly. It had an adverse impact on the local community because it leaked out into the water supply or something. I think it was also based on a true story IIRC. Anyhoo, companies like that need to be screwed into the ground. But there needs to be a balance. You look at California and based on all that is holy it appears that most of the massive wild fires they experienced are caused by putting so called environmentalism ahead of common sense. Environmentalism these days seem to be more about cave manism than actually doing the smart and/or right thing.

      So, to cut a long story short, yes I do believe you can have tax cuts and environmental programs at the same time. One does not have to be at the expense of the other as long as a balance is struck, and what’s more, neither one takes precedence for the sake of it.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      In other words you cannot generally be for dismantling environmental regulation and cutting all taxes and then not take some hit when stuff like this happens.

      It is, as they say, complicated.

      As I have pointed out in the not too distant past, I am somewhat of a conservationist. But I also believe there needs to be a balance. There was a movie a while back where a company was disposing of toxic materials in a local mine because it was cheaper than doing it properly. It had an adverse impact on the local community because it leaked out into the water supply or something. I think it was also based on a true story IIRC. Anyhoo, companies like that need to be screwed into the ground. But there needs to be a balance. You look at California and based on all that is holy it appears that most of the massive wild fires they experienced are caused by putting so called environmentalism ahead of common sense. Environmentalism these days seem to be more about cave manism than actually doing the smart and/or right thing.

      So, to cut a long story short, yes I do believe you can have tax cuts and environmental programs at the same time. One does not have to be at the expense of the other as long as a balance is struck, and what’s more, neither one takes precedence for the sake of it.

      Every us corporation manages to survive paying taxes in foreign countries and still making billions for shareholders

      The state of Florida is fun by the GOP. The same morons who never fixed Piney Point AND who decried the American Recovery Plan …. aware now using $200 million from the American Recovery Plan to clean up Piney point. Lol

      Low taxes are not some small government philosophy or economic belief. They are a reflection strategy.

      As with EVERYTHING in politics there is a REASONABLE middle ground but the govt rarely falls on it because “ reasonable middle ground” doesn’t get either party elected

    • Anonymous

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      Oops “re-election strategy”

      Not worth editing because website sucks

    • spartan

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      Post count: 1163

      Every us corporation manages to survive paying taxes in foreign countries and still making billions for shareholders

      The state of Florida is fun by the GOP. The same morons who never fixed Piney Point AND who decried the American Recovery Plan …. aware now using $200 million from the American Recovery Plan to clean up Piney point. Lol

      Low taxes are not some small government philosophy or economic belief. They are a reflection strategy.

      As with EVERYTHING in politics there is a REASONABLE middle ground but the govt rarely falls on it because “ reasonable middle ground” doesn’t get either party elected

      In the era of identity politics I agree with you. And that is because there always has to be a victims and an oppressor. Politicians gamble that more “victims” will turn out to vote than oppressors.

      It’s also pretty funny that most super corporations are run by avant garde, virtue signaling progressives. They are all for paying more taxes, then find ways where they don’t have to pay taxes. In some cases, ANY taxes. All it demonstrates is they will say and do anything to keep the heat of themselves and their corporation. It’s rank hypocrisy.

      I believe that low taxes should always be the goal. Not always possible because of priorities and circumstance but should be the goal. The reasons being that people IMO should keep as much of their own money as they can, and what’s more, I see the job that Govt does to resolve problems and it’s not good.

    • Anonymous

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      It’s also pretty funny that most super corporations are run by avant garde, virtue signaling progressives.

      Not sure about funny but generally speaking the more educated/wordly the person the more progressive. Generally, not always, but there’s a certain ignorance connected with many SOCIALLY conservative/nationalistic positions like racism, white power etc.

      Also, by definition most businesses and especially public companies want the biggest markets they can find. So, it’s capitalism (not altruism or virtue signaling) that leads MLB, Coke etc to take the steps they have. The NFL is actually a tiny company, in terms of leadership, this is why they mid-stepped initially but then reversed course. MLB learned from the NFL

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      Piney Point engineer warned DEP last year about ‘high risk’ of water breach, letter shows

      An engineering firm warned the Department of Environmental Protection last March of a potential “uncontrolled release” of polluted water from the now-breached Piney Point phosphate stack, according to a letter obtained by 8 On Your Side.

      Wood Environment and Infrastructure Solutions Engineer Glen Anderson wrote the letter, citing three issues and the elevated pond levels for creating “the potential high risk” of a breach.

      “The following known and reasonably assumed conditions at the [New Gypsum Stack South (NGS-S)] present an elevated risk of containment breach and release of ponded process wastewater,” Anderson wrote.

      According to Anderson, there was a “deterioration of the liner” above the stack water line, “compromised condition” of the liner below the water line and “voids” in the dikes that hold the water presented.

      “The NGS-S should immediately be drained,” Anderson wrote. “And the NGS-S pond area should be modified into a stable state pending final clsoure of the entire phosphogypsum stack system.”

      Wood Enronment, a third-party engineer working for site owner HRK Holdings LLC, sent the five-page letter to DEP on March 13, 2020, about 13 months before a gaping crack opened, allowing water to spew into Piney Point Creek.

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