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    • bucinsouthFL

      Participant
      Post count: 128

      http://www.nfl.com/player/michaeljohnson/2507784/profileI hear a lot of talk about Verner, Collins, our new center whose last name I cannot spell off of the top of my head, Evans, ASF and even Sims, but I really think a guy we are not talking about is the DE who we shelled out a ton of money to sign this off season. We have been dying for a true pass rusher since Rice left town. Michael Johnson is, in my opinion, the key player next season if we want to truly be a great team. We already know McCoy and David can seek and destroy, but their positions cannot truly transform a defense like a pass rushing DE can. If M.J can post 10-12 sacks, we are going to be a force on defense. I am weary (extremely weary) of his 3.5 sack total last year, but his measurable are freakish. Here's to hoping for a good season Michael!

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    • ellen

      Participant
      Post count: 87

      If you’re going to look at stats. Look at them all. Michael Johnson was one of the most disruptive players last year. If his low sack total worries you, then you’re ignorant. He will get his share of sacks, but he will create opportunities for everyone else on the defense.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Good player, good enough to earn the franchise tag from the Bungles.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      Exactly. If he opens up opportunities for other players on the defense, I can live with a lower sack total.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Marvin Lewis said this guy was one of the best pass rushers he has ever worked with. Its all about scheme though, we will have to see how he fits in here. Marvin played him at OLB.

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    • bnjsnow

      Participant
      Post count: 41

      Hes our Simion Rice..

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2601

      Sacks are a very rare event and thus a horrible stat to rely on. Pressure is what you want.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Hes our Simion Rice..

      Not even close.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1550

      Hes our Simion Rice..

      Not even close.

      Indeed, he has a LOT to improve on before he ever becomes the level of Rice. People have forgotten how elite he was. I don't know why he always got snubbed for Pro Bowls and what not. Maybe it was the way he carried himself - he's a weird cat. But I always dug his style and he was a top level talent. It says a lot the Bucs have bee trying to replace him for 7 years and still haven't done it.I hope Johnson is the guy. He'll have a great shot at it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      For me, Clayborn is the X factor with out defense.  Our defense goes from ok to awesome with Johnson if Clayborn can figure out his side of the ball.  Our defense has all the pieces, not a lot of depth but all of the pieces to be really good. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      For me, Clayborn is the X factor with out defense.  Our defense goes from ok to awesome with Johnson if Clayborn can figure out his side of the ball.  Our defense has all the pieces, not a lot of depth but all of the pieces to be really good.

      I still have some faith in Clay. I refuse to believe that his rookie season was a fluke. He played well against the run and pass. He got hurt his second year and played in Schiano's horrible scheme in his 3rd year. Now in his 4th year he should be 100% from his injury in year two and should be in a much better scheme. I expect him to have another 7-9 sack year from the LDE spot. He is not a RDE in my opinion.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 642

      He’s got a loong way to go before even being mentioned in the same sentence with “Planet Sim”.Still remember Simeon saying "Vick's can't outrun me", and chasing him all over the field that game.  Johnson needs to bring that same predator attitude.  It's what made Sim..... Sim!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 642

      For me, Clayborn is the X factor with out defense.  Our defense goes from ok to awesome with Johnson if Clayborn can figure out his side of the ball.  Our defense has all the pieces, not a lot of depth but all of the pieces to be really good.

      I still have some faith in Clay. I refuse to believe that his rookie season was a fluke. He played well against the run and pass. He got hurt his second year and played in Schiano's horrible scheme in his 3rd year. Now in his 4th year he should be 100% from his injury in year two and should be in a much better scheme. I expect him to have another 7-9 sack year from the LDE spot. He is not a RDE in my opinion.

      He's still a better motor guy than skill guy.  Too slow off the ball IMO.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2594

      If you're going to look at stats. Look at them all. Michael Johnson was one of the most disruptive players last year. If his low sack total worries you, then you're ignorant. He will get his share of sacks, but he will create opportunities for everyone else on the defense.

      Not even close, especially not on a per-rush basis.  Last year his pass disruption fell squarely between George Selvie and Wallace Gilberry

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1271

      For me, Clayborn is the X factor with out defense.  Our defense goes from ok to awesome with Johnson if Clayborn can figure out his side of the ball.  Our defense has all the pieces, not a lot of depth but all of the pieces to be really good.

      I still have some faith in Clay. I refuse to believe that his rookie season was a fluke. He played well against the run and pass. He got hurt his second year and played in Schiano's horrible scheme in his 3rd year. Now in his 4th year he should be 100% from his injury in year two and should be in a much better scheme. I expect him to have another 7-9 sack year from the LDE spot. He is not a RDE in my opinion.

      Something I didn't realize until I saw it on the NFL Network ticker during the draft is that the Bucs declined to exercise Clayborn's 5th year option, making this a contract year for him. To me this D-Line is still incomplete. Michael Johnson is a good player, but no one is going to confuse him with Simeon Rice, and Clayborn may prove to be the better RDE through the year. Because of the Erbs Palsey, I don't see Clayborn proving to be a great down in, down out LDE. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong, but all of the tape I've watched has shown me he is much better with his left arm than his right. I mentioned in the Greg Hardy thread that I think the Bucs will target him next year. I also think this is Clayborn's last year in Tampa.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 739

      For me, Clayborn is the X factor with out defense.  Our defense goes from ok to awesome with Johnson if Clayborn can figure out his side of the ball.  Our defense has all the pieces, not a lot of depth but all of the pieces to be really good.

      I still have some faith in Clay. I refuse to believe that his rookie season was a fluke. He played well against the run and pass. He got hurt his second year and played in Schiano's horrible scheme in his 3rd year. Now in his 4th year he should be 100% from his injury in year two and should be in a much better scheme. I expect him to have another 7-9 sack year from the LDE spot. He is not a RDE in my opinion.

      Watch out, but before the middle of the season, I would be surprised to see William  "The Force" Gholston take the position away from Clayborn

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1128

      I was under the impression that the Bengals defensive scheme was set up to stop the run first, then rush the passer. If true, it would seem MJ would be a much better fit in our defense. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I still don’t understand why they paid him so much.It seems like even a bidding war wouldn't go that high for him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      For me, Clayborn is the X factor with out defense.  Our defense goes from ok to awesome with Johnson if Clayborn can figure out his side of the ball.  Our defense has all the pieces, not a lot of depth but all of the pieces to be really good.

      I still have some faith in Clay. I refuse to believe that his rookie season was a fluke. He played well against the run and pass. He got hurt his second year and played in Schiano's horrible scheme in his 3rd year. Now in his 4th year he should be 100% from his injury in year two and should be in a much better scheme. I expect him to have another 7-9 sack year from the LDE spot. He is not a RDE in my opinion.

      Watch out, but before the middle of the season, I would be surprised to see William  "The Force" Gholston take the position away from Clayborn

      I liked him last year a lot. He needs to get better at a counter move, I could see him or clayborn working inside on pass rush downs as they are both more power than finesse players right now.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4057

      If Johnson isn’t the guy we thought we were buying then this will be a tough year. That front 4 has to get pressure and GMC can’t be the only guy bringing the heat.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      The one good thing about Johnson compared to Clayborn is that even if he isn’t getting sacks, he at least has a great first step and can split the left tackle extra wide to make the left guard have to cover more real estate when blocking McCoy and also giving David a bigger hole to shoot into when he needs to make a play.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      I still don't understand why they paid him so much.It seems like even a bidding war wouldn't go that high for him.

      Its not that bad.  Its extensively a 3 year deal with the cap projecting to go up each year so the % of cap space he takes up goes down.  He was the only guy I thought we slightly overpaid but you got a young DE on the market, someone was going to give him that deal.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Hes our Simion Rice..

      Whoa now!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1550

      And I believe only the first two years have guaranteed money so if he sucks he can be cut.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I still don't understand why they paid him so much.It seems like even a bidding war wouldn't go that high for him.

      Its not that bad.  Its extensively a 3 year deal with the cap projecting to go up each year so the % of cap space he takes up goes down.  He was the only guy I thought we slightly overpaid but you got a young DE on the market, someone was going to give him that deal.

      You pay peppers, watt, etc that type of cash. It's just not compatible to me.Yes, he's a huge, athletic guy..but so is a lot of underachieving nfl players. He had a good season...so did clayborn. Big deal.I'm NOT saying he will or will not be good/bad, but it seems like he ripped us off right now. Maybe he becomes elite? ..I'd love that, but I still feel like we could've reached just a little farther into the coffers and signed a legit vet.I do however, like that he's young enough to be around for awhile, and his matchup with mccoy should theoretically work well.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3028

      I still don't understand why they paid him so much.It seems like even a bidding war wouldn't go that high for him.

      Its not that bad.  Its extensively a 3 year deal with the cap projecting to go up each year so the % of cap space he takes up goes down.  He was the only guy I thought we slightly overpaid but you got a young DE on the market, someone was going to give him that deal.

      You pay peppers, watt, etc that type of cash. It's just not compatible to me.Yes, he's a huge, athletic guy..but so is a lot of underachieving nfl players. He had a good season...so did clayborn. Big deal.I'm NOT saying he will or will not be good/bad, but it seems like he ripped us off right now. Maybe he becomes elite? ..I'd love that, but I still feel like we could've reached just a little farther into the coffers and signed a legit vet.I do however, like that he's young enough to be around for awhile, and his matchup with mccoy should theoretically work well.

      I get what you're saying but I dont know who else would be considered an upgrade.  I think we paid him less than when Mario Williams went to Buffalo.  Other than that I cant think of the last time a good DE was on the market.  I think he will flourish with Lovie and our line.  Hopefully.

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    • gobucs123

      Participant
      Post count: 569

      Clayborn is better suited to play on the left . RT’s are slower. Let’s just hope his palsy t-rex arm can handle it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      I still don't understand why they paid him so much.It seems like even a bidding war wouldn't go that high for him.

      Its not that bad.  Its extensively a 3 year deal with the cap projecting to go up each year so the % of cap space he takes up goes down.  He was the only guy I thought we slightly overpaid but you got a young DE on the market, someone was going to give him that deal.

      You pay peppers, watt, etc that type of cash. It's just not compatible to me.Yes, he's a huge, athletic guy..but so is a lot of underachieving nfl players. He had a good season...so did clayborn. Big deal.I'm NOT saying he will or will not be good/bad, but it seems like he ripped us off right now. Maybe he becomes elite? ..I'd love that, but I still feel like we could've reached just a little farther into the coffers and signed a legit vet.I do however, like that he's young enough to be around for awhile, and his matchup with mccoy should theoretically work well.

      Who would you have signed? This dude has way more upside than grandpa Jared Allen. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Everyone has more upside than old guys. Don’t kid around aj.It's not about upside, it's about ceiling and the money he received for his "potential."Hell, bowers has potential. What makes this so different, one good season?I feel like if we we're another team, and we liked clayborn, we would go out and sign him for too much? Same thing imo.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Everyone has more upside than old guys. Don't kid around aj.It's not about upside, it's about ceiling and the money he received for his "potential."Hell, bowers has potential. What makes this so different, one good season?I feel like if we we're another team, and we liked clayborn, we would go out and sign him for too much? Same thing imo.

      A Bowers/MJ comparison doesn't hold up.  In 2012, Johnson accumulated 52 tackles, 35 solo, and 11.5 sacks. He also had one interception and one force fumble. If only Bowers could of even approached those numbers.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2630

      I’m with Bench here. Johnson seems to have a lot of potential, but he’s really only had 1 great season. I’m really hoping he pans out because if he does, this d-line will be very good, but as of right now I’m a little skeptical.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      I'm with Bench here. Johnson seems to have a lot of potential, but he's really only had 1 great season. I'm really hoping he pans out because if he does, this d-line will be very good, but as of right now I'm a little skeptical.

      Good enough to get tagged.  I don't think anyone ever contemplated tagging Bowers. They may have contemplated cutting him, but tagging him, no.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 610

      Except we’re paying him at least half of what Watt is likely to receive on his next contract. MJ is on a very reasonable deal as is, and will be a steal if he reaches is potential.

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    • stonecoldbucsfan

      Participant
      Post count: 602

      Even this year(his down year) I thought I read somewhere he was among the top d-linemen in the league vs the rush and pressuring the QB. He didn’t get the sacks but hopefully that will change this year. Either way if he is applying constant pressure and someone else gets to the QB I’ll be happy.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2630

      I'm with Bench here. Johnson seems to have a lot of potential, but he's really only had 1 great season. I'm really hoping he pans out because if he does, this d-line will be very good, but as of right now I'm a little skeptical.

      Good enough to get tagged.  I don't think anyone ever contemplated tagging Bowers. They may have contemplated cutting him, but tagging him, no.

      I definitely agree with you that he's better than Bowers, but I'm just not sold on him being worth anywhere near the amount we're paying him.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 178

      I expect the D to show up because of solid “team ” play vs great play from any one player. David and McCoy will be our stars, but it is the system that will steal the show IMO. Johnson will fit that system and McCoy will  stronger because of it. I like our rotation at both the RDE and nose T.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      I'm with Bench here. Johnson seems to have a lot of potential, but he's really only had 1 great season. I'm really hoping he pans out because if he does, this d-line will be very good, but as of right now I'm a little skeptical.

      Good enough to get tagged.  I don't think anyone ever contemplated tagging Bowers. They may have contemplated cutting him, but tagging him, no.

      I definitely agree with you that he's better than Bowers, but I'm just not sold on him being worth anywhere near the amount we're paying him.

      If we didn't pay him, another team would of.  You have to open the wallet for good players. Or, you can lay low, and just sign other teams rejects.  We have had plenty of those.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I'm with Bench here. Johnson seems to have a lot of potential, but he's really only had 1 great season. I'm really hoping he pans out because if he does, this d-line will be very good, but as of right now I'm a little skeptical.

      Aj has a point though. We can't compare bowers to mj, but it's the idea I'm referring to, not the player.Mj, in lovie's system, should theoretically do well, but do you PAY for theory?I think he will do well, but imo you cannot pay so much for possible. Seems like it's more of a 50/50.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      I'm with Bench here. Johnson seems to have a lot of potential, but he's really only had 1 great season. I'm really hoping he pans out because if he does, this d-line will be very good, but as of right now I'm a little skeptical.

      Aj has a point though. We can't compare bowers to mj, but it's the idea I'm referring to, not the player.Mj, in lovie's system, should theoretically do well, but do you PAY for theory?I think he will do well, but imo you cannot pay so much for possible. Seems like it's more of a 50/50.

      Well, its pay for potential, or pay for a players track record.  I would much prefer to pay for potential, than pay a guy that may have had a nice career but is nearing the end of the road.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      People talk a lot about Michael Johnson’s TFLs but most wouldn’t even recognize who was up there with him for TFL’s…

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2630

      People talk a lot about Michael Johnson's TFLs but most wouldn't even recognize who was up there with him for TFL's...

      Assuming you're talking about Clayborn?And how many TFL's did MJ even have last year? He isn't even on this list unless I am just completely missing him.http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/defense-tackles-for-loss

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2630

      I'm with Bench here. Johnson seems to have a lot of potential, but he's really only had 1 great season. I'm really hoping he pans out because if he does, this d-line will be very good, but as of right now I'm a little skeptical.

      Good enough to get tagged.  I don't think anyone ever contemplated tagging Bowers. They may have contemplated cutting him, but tagging him, no.

      I definitely agree with you that he's better than Bowers, but I'm just not sold on him being worth anywhere near the amount we're paying him.

      If we didn't pay him, another team would of.  You have to open the wallet for good players. Or, you can lay low, and just sign other teams rejects.  We have had plenty of those.

      Someone would have payed him, but I'm just not sold on the fact that he's that great of a player. I'd rather have Bennett over him and he got paid less. We'll see how it works out. Hopefully I'm wrong.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      If we didn't pay him, another team would of.  You have to open the wallet for good players. Or, you can lay low, and just sign other teams rejects.  We have had plenty of those.

      Someone would have payed him, but I'm just not sold on the fact that he's that great of a player. I'd rather have Bennett over him and he got paid less. We'll see how it works out. Hopefully I'm wrong.

      A couple points.  Johnson is younger than Bennett. And has better stats in most categories. And your right, Johnson is making more, but the average yearly salary numbers are not that far apart. Michael Johnson    $8,750,000Michael Bennett      $7,125,000Total tackles Johnson    202Bennett      129SacksJohnson    26.5Bennett        23.5Pass DeflectionsJohnson    25Bennett    3

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2630

      If we didn't pay him, another team would of.  You have to open the wallet for good players. Or, you can lay low, and just sign other teams rejects.  We have had plenty of those.

      Someone would have payed him, but I'm just not sold on the fact that he's that great of a player. I'd rather have Bennett over him and he got paid less. We'll see how it works out. Hopefully I'm wrong.

      A couple points.  Johnson is younger than Bennett. And has better stats in most categories. And your right, Johnson is making more, but the average yearly salary numbers are not that far apart. Michael Johnson    $8,750,000Michael Bennett      $7,125,000Total tackles Johnson    202Bennett      129SacksJohnson    26.5Bennett        23.5Pass DeflectionsJohnson    25Bennett    3

      Bennett hasn't played as much as Johnson. Both years Bennett has been a starter, he's produced at a very high level.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      [Bennett hasn't played as much as Johnson. Both years Bennett has been a starter, he's produced at a very high level.

      Fair point for sure. But I could counter with, Johnson may be better suited to Lovies D, Marv had him playing LB at times.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Damn. That’s a lot of PD’s!..I guess when you're already 6'7, and your armspan is dump truck size, you can do that.I admit though, this guy is a monster physically. If that actually means anything, we're going to have a beast line.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Damn. That's a lot of PD's!..I guess when you're already 6'7, and your armspan is dump truck size, you can do that.I admit though, this guy is a monster physically. If that actually means anything, we're going to have a beast line.

      He is a tall mammar jammar.  The Bucs could put together a pretty decent basketball team with some of these guys.  Johnson is pretty close to Lebron's size.

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