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    • michael89156

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      Jones: Don't hang Bucs' loss on WinstonTom Jones, Times Sports ColumnistSeptember 27, 2015 jones_zpsaugrfbij.jpgTampa Bay Buccaneers quarterback Jameis Winston (3) looks before a hike in the third quarter of the game between the Houston Texans and Tampa Bay Buccaneers at NRG Stadium in Houston on Sunday, September 27, 2015.HOUSTONRookie quarterbacks, even the promising ones, can you give you migraines.They make bad decisions. They make horrible plays. They do dumb things.Bottom line: they lose football games.That's why you can't help but constantly worry about them. Except in Tampa Bay. As is always the way with the dysfunctional Bucs, nothing is ever the way it's supposed to be.When it comes to the Bucs, don't worry about the rookie quarterback. In fact, Jameis Winston is the last guy you should worry about.It's everybody else that's the problem.Case in point: Sunday's 19-9 loss to the Texans. The Bucs managed to snatch a loss from the jaws of victory.They made bad decisions. They made horrible plays. They did dumb things. And they lost a football game.But none of it — well, very little of it — can be blamed on the kid signal-caller making his third NFL start."Jameis Winston is a good football player, simple as that," coach Lovie Smith said. "He will have some bad plays like all quarterbacks do. But his arrow is pointed up. He'll continue to get that. He learns something new each week, which rookies do. Again, there are a lot of us that need to play a lot better. Of course, he included, but we're going to win a lot of games with him."But the Bucs will continue to lose a lot of games with him, too, until they can either find better players to put around him or get better play out of the players they do have.Until then, pass the Tylenol.Winston was far from perfect Sunday. The Bucs converted only one of 12 third downs, and some of that was Winston throwing his darts well outside the bulls-eye.But don't blame Winston for the loss. Blame kicker Kyle Brindza, who missed three field goals (two of them gimme putts) and an extra point.Don't point the finger at Winston. Point it at a rushing defense that was carved up for 186 yards and a passing defense that turned little Ryan Mallett into Tom Brady.Don't pin the loss on Winston. Pin it on costly drops, most notably by the rusty Mike Evans.When you are listing reasons for why the Bucs lost Sunday, there are plenty of candidates.Attack the rushing offense that produced 57 yards on 20 carries. Criticize the 10 penalties for 84 yards. Slam the guy for not filling up the Gatorade buckets with enough ice.But don't you dare blame Winston.Only one person was silly enough to do that. Naturally, you can guess who."It's a thin line between winning and losing," Winston said. "I have to meet the quota. I have to produce on third downs."Winston wasn't sacked Sunday, but he was under some serious pressure from Houston beast J.J. Watt and his Texans teammates, and that led to a few misfires. But if every ball that should have been caught had been caught, Winston's numbers would have been a whole lot better than 17-for-36 for 261 yards.Here's another number that would have been different: the final score. The Bucs would have won, I'm sure of it."I miss throws, too; everyone isn't perfect," Winston said. "Everyone makes mistakes. We can't put our head down. We got to get back up and bounce back."What's encouraging about Sunday is the Bucs could have won. Probably should have won despite playing poorly on the critical downs."I guess you could look at it that way," Smith said. "Or really disappointing that (you didn't win)."Let's face it, the Texans aren't that good. They didn't win Sunday as much as the Bucs lost. For Tampa Bay, it was the classic example of a team that still hasn't figured out how to win.That shows up when your bad penalties kill your own drive and extend those of your opponent. That shows up when you can't catch third-down passes. That shows up when you can kick a 58-yard field goal in the first half but miss 41- and 33-yarders when the game gets tense."These are the things that losing teams do," Smith said.This is to be expected. This is a young team that won two games last season. This is a bad team that lost 14. Transformations don't happen overnight. Not when you're young. Not when you lack talent.Winston tried to find the positive. He admitted it sounded strange, but he called the loss "promising.""My goal is to get better every single week," Winston said. "I believe we got better as a team. I believe I got better."He's half right. He got better. The team around him did not.In the short term, some of it can be fixed. Evans is better than he showed Sunday. Brindza will make field goals or the Bucs will bring in someone who can. Some of the penalties can be cleaned up.But in the long term, the only way this gets better is if the Bucs get better players. That takes time.The good news is they already have the quarterback.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 337

      9 points1-11 on 3rd down0 second half pointsIf Mike Glennon had started this game and posted the exact same statline, same throws, etc. this board would be abound in threads projecting who the best QB in the upcoming draft would be.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 855

      9 points1-11 on 3rd down0 second half pointsIf Mike Glennon had started this game and posted the exact same statline, same throws, etc. this board would be abound in threads projecting who the best QB in the upcoming draft would be.

      Glennon most likely wouldn’t have made the same throws, etc…He almost refuses to take chances down the field. He’d be sitting pretty with a nice completion % and fewer yards than Winston had they switched positions. And Glennon probably gets sacked 2-3 times b/c he is terrible when he has to climb the pocket.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      ^^this^^

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1417

      9 points1-11 on 3rd down0 second half pointsIf Mike Glennon had started this game and posted the exact same statline, same throws, etc. this board would be abound in threads projecting who the best QB in the upcoming draft would be.

      Test this hypothesis and let us know how it turned out.

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    • redwolf384

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      Post count: 181

      This article is pretty accurate. I will say I like jameis the last 2 weeks, he has played well. But I think he did miss a couple routine throws that would have helped out. With that said this whole team is pretty in experienced so I expect to see improvement by the end of the season.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3169

      9 points1-11 on 3rd down0 second half pointsIf Mike Glennon had started this game and posted the exact same statline, same throws, etc. this board would be abound in threads projecting who the best QB in the upcoming draft would be.

      Glennon most likely wouldn't have made the same throws, etc...He almost refuses to take chances down the field. He'd be sitting pretty with a nice completion % and fewer yards than Winston had they switched positions. And Glennon probably gets sacked 2-3 times b/c he is terrible when he has to climb the pocket.

      Lot of assumptions you're making there.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3169

      This article is pretty accurate. I will say I like jameis the last 2 weeks, he has played well. But I think he did miss a couple routine throws that would have helped out. With that said this whole team is pretty in experienced so I expect to see improvement by the end of the season.

      Winston isn't and won't be the biggest problem the team has or will have all year.  That problem resides higher up the food chain.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1845

      This article is pretty accurate. I will say I like jameis the last 2 weeks, he has played well. But I think he did miss a couple routine throws that would have helped out. With that said this whole team is pretty in experienced so I expect to see improvement by the end of the season.

      Could you clarify how they are inexperiencedBecause VJAX, Mankins, E Smith, Cherilus, Louis Murphy, Doug Martin, GMC, Melton, David, Verner, Jennings, Wright, Conte,  are all seasoned vets and some of them have experience in Lovie's system. The inexperienced card may work for Winston and D Smith, and Marpet, but the rest of these guys should be playing better.The coaching is questionable at best. With a competent coach, I bet we're 2-1 at least.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 57

      Winston played well and made a mistake in throwing the interception…but so do other quarterbacks in this league.  He certainly played well enough to win…will never know if Glennon would have done better or not, and don’t care since he isn’t the future at this point with Winston as our franchise quarterback moving forward.  The loss falls squarely on the shoulders of our rookie kicker...he makes the kicks, we win the game...it's as simple as that.  However, in week 1 the loss can be pointed at the rookie quarterback who had a horrific day as well and had me and a lot of other people terrified about the future of the franchise.  Let's hope kicker Kyle bounces back from a bad week in Texas and gets back to making great kicks.My game notes:The defense continues to shine and look good...that's great news.  We must get better against the run...especially at the line of scrimmage.  Winston played with a lot of poise and had his receivers made the catches yesterday I believe we would have put the game away earlier.  To go in and play in which he did against one of the best defensive fronts was very impressive.  The offensive line continues to improve and play with passion...another great sign!  They gave enough protection and opened enough holes to win...and far better than I thought they would fare against the Texans defensive line.I understand bad calls happens to every team in the league...but the referees were simply bad in this game and it was obvious.  We still were in a position to win though, so I can't complain too much I suppose...will not do any good!

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8096

      9 points1-11 on 3rd down0 second half pointsIf Mike Glennon had started this game and posted the exact same statline, same throws, etc. this board would be abound in threads projecting who the best QB in the upcoming draft would be.

      Glennon most likely wouldn't have made the same throws, etc...He almost refuses to take chances down the field. He'd be sitting pretty with a nice completion % and fewer yards than Winston had they switched positions. And Glennon probably gets sacked 2-3 times b/c he is terrible when he has to climb the pocket.

      Funny... because last year, Tony Romo led the league for "qualified QBs" in "Air Yards Per Attempt" with 4.67 ...http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-air-yards/2014/Glennon's number ... 4.77 ... and Glennon had a lot more incompleted passes.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1845

      Just curious, who’s to blame if our kicker makes his kicks and the Texans kicker makes his kicks….Then we lose 19-23 right? (a loss is a loss, no matter the score, or is it better if we only lose by 4?)Yes, the kicker was bad, but their kicker missed 4 pts as well.I'm only bringing this up because "the kicker lost it"... well their kicker wasn't perfect either, so if our kicker is perfect, shouldn't we say their kicker is perfect as well?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 855

      9 points1-11 on 3rd down0 second half pointsIf Mike Glennon had started this game and posted the exact same statline, same throws, etc. this board would be abound in threads projecting who the best QB in the upcoming draft would be.

      Glennon most likely wouldn't have made the same throws, etc...He almost refuses to take chances down the field. He'd be sitting pretty with a nice completion % and fewer yards than Winston had they switched positions. And Glennon probably gets sacked 2-3 times b/c he is terrible when he has to climb the pocket.

      Funny... because last year, Tony Romo led the league for "qualified QBs" in "Air Yards Per Attempt" with 4.67 ...http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-air-yards/2014/Glennon's number ... 4.77 ... and Glennon had a lot more incompleted passes.

      Nice reach.Romo was a top 10 QB last year and unlike Glennon moves well around in the pocket when it starts to collapse. Not to mention, the Cowboys were a run heavy first team that was getting nearly 5 yards a carry. Bucs didn't have a run game at all and were often forced to pass the ball in longer downs. Glennon is captain checkdown, all over again.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 337

      This board is like a bizarro universe sometimes —One what planet is a sub-50% completion percentage, 9 points, and a near-0fer on 3rd down conversions considered to be "playing well" or "playing a good game?"Jameis stunk. You can say he showed you things that would lead you to believe he's going to have better games in the future and that's a valid position, but to try and claim that a QB who couldn't complete half his passes or produce more than a single touchdown had a "good game" is just mind boggling. His job is to move the offense and score points. He did neither on Sunday.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 855

      9 points1-11 on 3rd down0 second half pointsIf Mike Glennon had started this game and posted the exact same statline, same throws, etc. this board would be abound in threads projecting who the best QB in the upcoming draft would be.

      Glennon most likely wouldn't have made the same throws, etc...He almost refuses to take chances down the field. He'd be sitting pretty with a nice completion % and fewer yards than Winston had they switched positions. And Glennon probably gets sacked 2-3 times b/c he is terrible when he has to climb the pocket.

      Lot of assumptions you're making there.

      Based from what we’ve seen from Glennon, not really. He is gun-shy and is easy to sack under duress. Mike Glennon is who he is.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4274

      Glennon takes too many sacks and his avg passing yards as a rookie was 6.3 and highest was 7.0R Mariota: 8.6R Winston: 7.5Rookie years for last years' QBs:Bridgewater: 7.3Carr:  5.5Manziel 5.0This year:Bridgewater 6.8Carr: 8.1Manziel: 9.1Glennon failed to make the leap in his second season.  He was unable to dethrone McCown and when he did play he hit a ceiling quickly.Glennon is a good spot starter/solid backup QB.  If he gains more experience and plays in a scheme that can protect him from sacks he can be decent.  That is why I don't buy the Matt Ryan comparison.  Matt Ryan releases the ball really quickly.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8096

      9 points1-11 on 3rd down0 second half pointsIf Mike Glennon had started this game and posted the exact same statline, same throws, etc. this board would be abound in threads projecting who the best QB in the upcoming draft would be.

      Glennon most likely wouldn't have made the same throws, etc...He almost refuses to take chances down the field. He'd be sitting pretty with a nice completion % and fewer yards than Winston had they switched positions. And Glennon probably gets sacked 2-3 times b/c he is terrible when he has to climb the pocket.

      Funny... because last year, Tony Romo led the league for "qualified QBs" in "Air Yards Per Attempt" with 4.67 ...http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-air-yards/2014/Glennon's number ... 4.77 ... and Glennon had a lot more incompleted passes.

      Nice reach.Romo was a top 10 QB last year and unlike Glennon moves well around in the pocket when it starts to collapse. Not to mention, the Cowboys were a run heavy first team that was getting nearly 5 yards a carry. Safe to say, you don't need a QB to have a high air yards per attempt when you are third down conversions are 3rd and 4 and 5 etc.........

      None of that is relevant to whether Glennon threw the ball down the field or not.https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/05/29/qbs-in-focus-deep-passing-2/

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1571

      9 points1-11 on 3rd down0 second half pointsIf Mike Glennon had started this game and posted the exact same statline, same throws, etc. this board would be abound in threads projecting who the best QB in the upcoming draft would be.

      Glennon most likely wouldn't have made the same throws, etc...He almost refuses to take chances down the field. He'd be sitting pretty with a nice completion % and fewer yards than Winston had they switched positions. And Glennon probably gets sacked 2-3 times b/c he is terrible when he has to climb the pocket.

      Funny... because last year, Tony Romo led the league for "qualified QBs" in "Air Yards Per Attempt" with 4.67 ...http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-air-yards/2014/Glennon's number ... 4.77 ... and Glennon had a lot more incompleted passes.

      Nice reach.Romo was a top 10 QB last year and unlike Glennon moves well around in the pocket when it starts to collapse. Not to mention, the Cowboys were a run heavy first team that was getting nearly 5 yards a carry. Bucs didn't have a run game at all and were often forced to pass the ball in longer downs. Glennon is captain checkdown, all over again.

      I think you might be missing CJ's point.  A QB's air yards takes out all yards after catch and grades a QB just on how deep they went.  The provided link shows that -on average- Romo had the highest air yards per attempt in the league for QBs that met their qualifications (probably attempts).  The reason this is important is because Glennon's air yards per attempt were higher than Romo's in his limited chances.  In Glennon's rookie year his air yards were very high too.  Admittedly these are just numbers, but they do show that those who refer to Glennon as the checkdown king or a dink and dunk QB are flat out wrong.  Glennon can and does push the ball down the field.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      9 points1-11 on 3rd down0 second half pointsIf Mike Glennon had started this game and posted the exact same statline, same throws, etc. this board would be abound in threads projecting who the best QB in the upcoming draft would be.

      Glennon most likely wouldn't have made the same throws, etc...He almost refuses to take chances down the field. He'd be sitting pretty with a nice completion % and fewer yards than Winston had they switched positions. And Glennon probably gets sacked 2-3 times b/c he is terrible when he has to climb the pocket.

      Funny... because last year, Tony Romo led the league for "qualified QBs" in "Air Yards Per Attempt" with 4.67 ...http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-air-yards/2014/Glennon's number ... 4.77 ... and Glennon had a lot more incompleted passes.

      Nice reach.Romo was a top 10 QB last year and unlike Glennon moves well around in the pocket when it starts to collapse. Not to mention, the Cowboys were a run heavy first team that was getting nearly 5 yards a carry. Bucs didn't have a run game at all and were often forced to pass the ball in longer downs. Glennon is captain checkdown, all over again.

      I think you might be missing CJ's point.  A QB's air yards takes out all yards after catch and grades a QB just on how deep they went.  The provided link shows that -on average- Romo had the highest air yards per attempt in the league for QBs that met their qualifications (probably attempts).  The reason this is important is because Glennon's air yards per attempt were higher than Romo's in his limited chances.  In Glennon's rookie year his air yards were very high too.  Admittedly these are just numbers, but they do show that those who refer to Glennon as the checkdown king or a dink and dunk QB are flat out wrong.  Glennon can and does push the ball down the field.

      You can't live or die with passes downfield.  This was Freeman's downfall.  The intermediate areas is where you need a QB to do most of the work.'

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    • suesweat

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      Post count: 1335

      Just curious, who's to blame if our kicker makes his kicks and the Texans kicker makes his kicks....Then we lose 19-23 right? (a loss is a loss, no matter the score, or is it better if we only lose by 4?)Yes, the kicker was bad, but their kicker missed 4 pts as well.I'm only bringing this up because "the kicker lost it"... well their kicker wasn't perfect either, so if our kicker is perfect, shouldn't we say their kicker is perfect as well?

      IF both kickers made everything then at the end we don't go for a FG but a TD. That would be a tied game if successful. Not to mention the missed FG's gave the Texan's great field position. The points weren't the only thing those misses cost. Good try though!

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1845

      Just curious, who's to blame if our kicker makes his kicks and the Texans kicker makes his kicks....Then we lose 19-23 right? (a loss is a loss, no matter the score, or is it better if we only lose by 4?)Yes, the kicker was bad, but their kicker missed 4 pts as well.I'm only bringing this up because "the kicker lost it"... well their kicker wasn't perfect either, so if our kicker is perfect, shouldn't we say their kicker is perfect as well?

      IF both kickers made everything then at the end we don't go for a FG but a TD. That would be a tied game if successful. Not to mention the missed FG's gave the Texan's great field position. The points weren't the only thing those misses cost. Good try though!

      41 yard fg missed, starting Texans drive, the 31 yard line. Not great field position33 yard fg missed, starting Texans driver, the 23 yard line, again, not great field positionthe third miss was at the end of the game. (had everything been perfect up til that point, the score would be 23-16, so you're right, we'd be going for a td, not fg)But neither field goal gave the texans "great field position" I'm not sure that last drive ends successfully for the Bucs had we only needed a td. Didn't we start that drive with 1 time out, and the kick happened from the 39 with 24 seconds left. I'm not sure with how most of the game went that we get the td there.

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    • billym

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      Post count: 3348

      I think him and Marcus have played about the same so far. Some good plays and some bad. Its way to earlty to judge them though. End of season stats will be interesting.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3169

      9 points1-11 on 3rd down0 second half pointsIf Mike Glennon had started this game and posted the exact same statline, same throws, etc. this board would be abound in threads projecting who the best QB in the upcoming draft would be.

      Glennon most likely wouldn't have made the same throws, etc...He almost refuses to take chances down the field. He'd be sitting pretty with a nice completion % and fewer yards than Winston had they switched positions. And Glennon probably gets sacked 2-3 times b/c he is terrible when he has to climb the pocket.

      Lot of assumptions you're making there.

      Based from what we've seen from Glennon, not really. He is gun-shy and is easy to sack under duress. Mike Glennon is who he is.

      No, you're taking what you saw from a college coach with a college system and expecting greatness from a 3rd round QB who needed time to develop.  Then, you're taking what you saw from a terrible head coach who had a college offense, and are applying that to Glennon.  I don't know what Glennon will be... but I believe he can be better than what we've seen here.Lovie clearly saw last year what we saw in Glennon.  A young player needing a little more development and was clearly playing better than the guy that Lovie tabbed as the starter.  If Lovie went with Glennon last year, that team wins 4 or 5 games.  When Glennon leaves, if given the chance to develop, I think he could be a serviceable starter.

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