Viewing 32 reply threads

  • Author

    Posts

    • michael89156

      Participant
      Post count: 3229

      Shutdown Corner's Overrated and Underrated NFL coach.By Frank Schwab1 hours ago    RSS hc_zps34a6d586.pngMike Tomlin (AP) OVERRATED AND UNDERRATED: NFL head coachOVERRATED EE        Mike Tomlin, Steelers You can’t argue too much with a coach going to two Super Bowls and winning one in a four-year stretch to kick off his career, especially one who started the job at age 35. Tomlin has won 63 percent of his regular-season games since taking over the Steelers’ head job in 2007, has never been below .500 and has a 5-3 postseason mark. But what exactly does he do? The mark of a head coach is that he touches every unit on the field, in theory, and yet most don’t have control over the players they have. Tomlin has a general manager in Kevin Colbert, whose suspect drafting in recent years might actually give Tomlin credit for the job he has done. But he walked into a brilliant situation seven years ago, with a quarterback (who already has won a Super Bowl) entering his prime years and some of the best defensive talent in the game, coached by the master, Dick LeBeau. Tomlin wasn’t calling the offensive plays — Bruce Arians was — and was letting LeBeau call the defense. You can’t blame Tomlin for having a good situation to fall into, but you also can’t give him too much of a pass for the past three seasons. Yes, they’re four games over .500 over that time, but they lost a playoff game to Tim Tebow and have been 8-8 over the past two seasons. Getting rid of Arians as offensive coordinator was a mistake, but was that Tomlin’s call or from someone above him? See, maybe that’s why Tomlin is overrated for me: I just can’t for the life of me point to what he actually does or has power over. And there are times where Tomlin has said he wants to change — such as blitzing less defensively, running the ball more offensively — but it doesn’t happen consistently enough. The team also has been very streaky at times, prone to hot spells but also cold snaps (winning and losing streaks of five games apiece the past five seasons), under his watch. I believe Tomlin is a good head coach and that the blame for the Steelers’ leveling off likely should be pointed elsewhere first. But I also cannot say definitively that he’s a top six or seven NFL head coach, as many have asserted for years now. FS      Jeff Fisher, Rams hc1_zps87b3b8ea.png.(USA Today Sports Images)For a coach who ranks second among active NFL coaches in longevity (sandwiched between the five Super Bowl titles of Bill Belichick and Tom Coughlin), there have been a lot of mediocre seasons for Fisher. In fact, you can argue that Fisher has the worst results among any coach with his level of longevity.  Fisher has coached 18 full seasons in Tennessee or St. Louis, and has just six seasons better than .500. Not many coaches survive having one winning season of every three, much less do it for almost two decades. What helps Fisher is that his lows haven’t been that low. He has just three 10-loss seasons, and one of them was his last with the Titans. He has basically just been mediocre. Fisher hasn’t won a playoff game since the 2003 season, when Andrew Luck was still in middle school. He has three division championships in 18 seasons. In NFL history, only 14 coaches have had more service time than Fisher’s 18-plus years (he was an interim coach for part of one season in Houston). Of those 14, only Weeb Ewbank had a lower career winning percentage than Fisher, and Ewbank won three NFL championships. Only two had fewer than Fisher’s six playoff appearances: Ewbank and Curly Lambeau, who had six championships and mostly coached in a pre-playoffs era. Only three of those 14 coaches with more longevity than Fisher have fewer than two NFL championships. Dan Reeves, Chuck Knox and Marty Schottenheimer all match Fisher with zero NFL championships, but all three of those coaches won at least six division titles. It’s a results business, and the results are not too impressive considering how long Fisher has been employed. The Rams are building a very impressive roster, and seem to be on the verge of taking the step towards being a contender soon. Fisher has the opportunity to win big, something he hasn’t done in a pretty long time. UNDERRATED EE:      Mike Smith, Falcons hc2_zps6e8f6ee1.png(USA Today Sports Images)The Falcons’ disaster of a 2013 season had little to do with Smith’s coaching style. He often is a target, though, and it’s so easy to forget just how far he has raised the bar — the Atlanta Falcons had as many winning season (four) in the previous 16 years before his arrival as they did in his first five. When injuries crushed a thin, top-heavy roster that was put together by management, the Falcons fell to 4-12 last season, with seven of those losses (and the first four) decided by one score. There was also a potentially shocking Week 16 upset at San Francisco snatched in the final 90 seconds on an 89-yard pick-six with the Falcons down three points. Up until last season, the knocks on Smith had been with his playoff mark (1-4), his crummy challenge record (16-for-39 in his first five seasons) and his sometimes faulty penchant for being aggressive on fourth downs. I’ve always felt the head-coach challenge knock can be a bit of a misfire. Who is helping them determine whether or not to challenge? And though Smith’s postseason mark is not above reproach, it’s worth pointing out that the man still has won 62.5 percent of his regular-season games, even with a 4-12 mark to his name. He’s way more of a forward-thinking coach than he’s given credit for, and the Falcons’ fourth-down attempts are not out of whack compared to the NFL median. Smith just has been hung out to dry for the team coming up short on a few important ones. Smith’s team kept fighting last season, and it will bounce back this season. He might not be the most imaginative coach in the NFL, but his teams won consistently because they don’t beat themselves. The Falcons routinely are among the league leaders in fewest penalties (especially pre-snap ones and personal fouls) and fewest turnovers. Despite the lack of a consistent or dominant defense since his arrival, which has as much to do with the players he has been given (three defensive Pro Bowlers in his six seasons), Smith finds a way to win without getting enough credit. FS:      Lovie Smith, Buccaneers The NFL is all about the bottom line, and Smith has produced very good results. He had 81 wins in nine Bears seasons. After his 5-11 debut, he didn’t lose double-digit games in a season again. He won three division titles (the same amount as Fisher in half the seasons). I hear a lot of jokes about Rex Grossman as a quarterback, and that should mean praise for the coach that took a team with Grossman at quarterback to the Super Bowl. Smith also won NFL coach of the year in 2005. Smith was fired after a 10-6 season in Chicago, then couldn’t land another job in 2013. No, he wasn’t the most fiery and energetic coach on the sideline, and he is chided as being too conservative, but his reputation doesn’t match his results. He has a higher career winning percentage than John Fox, Pete Carroll and Tom Coughlin, to name three active coaches. Smith got his second shot, when the Tampa Bay Buccaneers hired him this offseason. He falls into a good situation with a team that has far more talent than its 4-12 record last year would indicate. He made some curious offseason moves, most notably needing to get a veteran quarterback and signing career journeyman Josh McCown to fulfill that need, but he has a great chance to add to a track record that is a lot better than people give him credit for.link

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      I would swap Tomlinson & Smith around on there but Fisher has to be without a doubt the most over rated HC in the league.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2847

        I would swap Mike & Mike.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1170

      What a stupid article. I get saying a coach is overrated because his record isn’t that good, but to say Tomlin is overrated because “what exactly does he do” is just idiotic.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3341

      Jeff Fisher:  154-135-1 (53.1% winning percentage), 5-6 in the playoffs (45.5% winning percentage) and 1 Super Bowl lossLovie Smith:  84-66 (56% winning percentage), 3-3 in the playoffs (50% winning percentage) and 1 Super Bowl lossThese guys are almost identical.  Not sure how one can be labeled underrated while the other is labeled overrated.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      There is something about Mike Smith that will keep him from being a top shelf HC like Belichick.  I have seen him more than once having the deer in the headlights look, during games.I think Tomlin does a good job. It would have been nice to promote him to HC before he left here. Fisher is a good coach IMO.  His teams are always competitive. Which is not an easy thing, playing in that NFC West. IIRC, he swept that division a couple years ago.  But unfortunately for him, they lost most of their out of division games that same season.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2601

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He’s good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      Please wait…

    • Scholty

      Participant
      Post count: 136

      Overrated – Jeff FisherUnderrated - Tom Coughlin

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      Steve McNair won league MVP for christs sake and he was QB1 for at least half of Fishers time in Tennessee, it's not like he was working with the likes of Bruce Gradkowski & Mike Glennon.It's not as if the division was really all that hard either, sure they had the Colts but other than that they had the expansion Texans and a very crappy Jags to beat up on from 2002, before that the Browns and Bengals.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      Fisher is a good coach IMO.  His teams are always competitive. Which is not an easy thing, playing in that NFC West. IIRC, he swept that division a couple years ago.  But unfortunately for him, they lost most of their out of division games that same season.

      The went 1-5 against the West last year and 4-1-1 in 2012, he hasn't come close to sweeping the West yet.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2601

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      Steve McNair won league MVP for christs sake and he was QB1 for at least half of Fishers time in Tennessee, it's not like he was working with the likes of Bruce Gradkowski & Mike Glennon.It's not as if the division was really all that hard either, sure they had the Colts but other than that they had the expansion Texans and a very crappy Jags to beat up on from 2002, before that the Browns and Bengals.

      WInning MVP is nice but he's still McNair. My point is, a coach is rarely only as good as his QB. Having easy wins in a division  doesn't make you any better against other top teams.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      Steve McNair won league MVP for christs sake and he was QB1 for at least half of Fishers time in Tennessee, it's not like he was working with the likes of Bruce Gradkowski & Mike Glennon.It's not as if the division was really all that hard either, sure they had the Colts but other than that they had the expansion Texans and a very crappy Jags to beat up on from 2002, before that the Browns and Bengals.

      WInning MVP is nice but he's still McNair. My point is, a coach is rarely only as good as his QB. Having easy wins in a division  doesn't make you any better against other top teams.

      Wait, so are you now saying Fisher is over rated and could only beat poor teams?As far as "still McNair" goes, what does that even mean, he was clearly a tier 2 QB which put a big hole in your original comment.Fisher wanting to pound the ball with Eddie George is what kept his numbers down.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      If you stick with a 2nd tier QB than that's on you.  He's had plenty of opportunity to get great QBs.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Tomlin is borderline underrated.  The guy took a team devoid of talent on the offensive side of the ball last season and turned the corner towards the end of the season, almost making the playoffs with a team that honestly had no business winning three games.  He’s damn good. I'm not sure Lovie is underrated. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      I would swap Tomlinson & Smith around on there but Fisher has to be without a doubt the most over rated HC in the league.

      Agree 100%

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Jeff Fisher:  154-135-1 (53.1% winning percentage), 5-6 in the playoffs (45.5% winning percentage) and 1 Super Bowl lossLovie Smith:  84-66 (56% winning percentage), 3-3 in the playoffs (50% winning percentage) and 1 Super Bowl lossThese guys are almost identical.  Not sure how one can be labeled underrated while the other is labeled overrated.

      because one is viewed as a much better coach than the other!!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      If you stick with a 2nd tier QB than that's on you.  He's had plenty of opportunity to get great QBs.

      He sure did.....can't wait til we get one here!!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Fisher is a good coach IMO.  His teams are always competitive. Which is not an easy thing, playing in that NFC West. IIRC, he swept that division a couple years ago.  But unfortunately for him, they lost most of their out of division games that same season.

      The went 1-5 against the West last year and 4-1-1 in 2012, he hasn't come close to sweeping the West yet.

      Ya thanks, it was 2012 I was thinking of.  But anyway, 4-1-1 is not close to sweeping the division?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      If you stick with a 2nd tier QB than that's on you.  He's had plenty of opportunity to get great QBs.

      He sure did.....can't wait til we get one here!!

      They just grow on trees, didn't you know?  But Fisher just said, what the heck do I need a franchise QB for, I can win with scrubs.  [sarc]

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Overrated - Jeff FisherUnderrated - Tom Coughlin

      Its amazing what Coughlin did with the expansion Jags. And what they were after he left. Helluva coach.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1455

      I would swap Tomlinson & Smith around on there but Fisher has to be without a doubt the most over rated HC in the league.

      Agree 100%

      Not quite sure where Tomlinson came from, Must have heard him mumbling his way through a segment on NFL Network and his name stuck.Seriously, how do some of these ex players get TV work when they can barely talk?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6677

      Tomlin belongs on the overrated list. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3341

      Jeff Fisher:  154-135-1 (53.1% winning percentage), 5-6 in the playoffs (45.5% winning percentage) and 1 Super Bowl lossLovie Smith:  84-66 (56% winning percentage), 3-3 in the playoffs (50% winning percentage) and 1 Super Bowl lossThese guys are almost identical.  Not sure how one can be labeled underrated while the other is labeled overrated.

      because one is viewed as a much better coach than the other!!

      Subjectively by some, you mean.  Objectively, they are almost identical - with Fisher's longevity giving him a slight bump in the eyes of some people.It's hard to be HC in the NFL.  It's even harder to do it for as long as Fisher has.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4623

      Fisher’s teams have always played to their talent level or better. When he’s gotten any kind of QB play he’s been exceptional. He’s won 13 games three times and 12 games once. Andy Reid has coached about as long as Fisher, has a higher winning percentage, yet has only won 13 games in a season once.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2601

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      Steve McNair won league MVP for christs sake and he was QB1 for at least half of Fishers time in Tennessee, it's not like he was working with the likes of Bruce Gradkowski & Mike Glennon.It's not as if the division was really all that hard either, sure they had the Colts but other than that they had the expansion Texans and a very crappy Jags to beat up on from 2002, before that the Browns and Bengals.

      WInning MVP is nice but he's still McNair. My point is, a coach is rarely only as good as his QB. Having easy wins in a division  doesn't make you any better against other top teams.

      Wait, so are you now saying Fisher is over rated and could only beat poor teams?As far as "still McNair" goes, what does that even mean, he was clearly a tier 2 QB which put a big hole in your original comment.Fisher wanting to pound the ball with Eddie George is what kept his numbers down.

      Nope. Not saying that.McNair was average. Fun to watch, but not tier 2. My 2002 tiers:Tier 1: FavreTier 2: Manning, Brady, Green, McNabb, Hasselbeck, Tier 3: Gannon, McNair, Brad Johnson, Vick, Bledsoe, Bulger

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2601

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      If you stick with a 2nd tier QB than that's on you.  He's had plenty of opportunity to get great QBs.

      No man can accurately project the next Brady or Manning. Sorry.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      If you stick with a 2nd tier QB than that's on you.  He's had plenty of opportunity to get great QBs.

      No man can accurately project the next Brady or Manning. Sorry.

      I guess I wasn't thinking through the draft.  If  you are close competitively speaking, you can find a competent QB to get you over the hump.  He should have done that in Tennessee. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2601

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      If you stick with a 2nd tier QB than that's on you.  He's had plenty of opportunity to get great QBs.

      No man can accurately project the next Brady or Manning. Sorry.

      I guess I wasn't thinking through the draft.  If  you are close competitively speaking, you can find a competent QB to get you over the hump.  He should have done that in Tennessee.

      Back then many people were thinking McNair was going to turn on the switch and be elite. Who was Fisher supposed to sign? Griese? Batch? Delhomme? You're arguing just to argue now.If the Titans took Rodgers over Pacman Jones you'd likely see Fisher and Rodgers leading an elite team today. Hindsight is cute.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      If you stick with a 2nd tier QB than that's on you.  He's had plenty of opportunity to get great QBs.

      No man can accurately project the next Brady or Manning. Sorry.

      I guess I wasn't thinking through the draft.  If  you are close competitively speaking, you can find a competent QB to get you over the hump.  He should have done that in Tennessee.

      Back then many people were thinking McNair was going to turn on the switch and be elite. Who was Fisher supposed to sign? Griese? Batch? Delhomme? You're arguing just to argue now.If the Titans took Rodgers over Pacman Jones you'd likely see Fisher and Rodgers leading an elite team today. Hindsight is cute.

      If you try to look to the future on this board, you get chastised.  It's a message board, yesteryear seems to be where everyone wants to spend their time.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2601

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      If you stick with a 2nd tier QB than that's on you.  He's had plenty of opportunity to get great QBs.

      No man can accurately project the next Brady or Manning. Sorry.

      I guess I wasn't thinking through the draft.  If  you are close competitively speaking, you can find a competent QB to get you over the hump.  He should have done that in Tennessee.

      Back then many people were thinking McNair was going to turn on the switch and be elite. Who was Fisher supposed to sign? Griese? Batch? Delhomme? You're arguing just to argue now.If the Titans took Rodgers over Pacman Jones you'd likely see Fisher and Rodgers leading an elite team today. Hindsight is cute.

      If you try to look to the future on this board, you get chastised.  It's a message board, yesteryear seems to be where everyone wants to spend their time.

      You just talked about the past! Are you stupid!? xD

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      If you stick with a 2nd tier QB than that's on you.  He's had plenty of opportunity to get great QBs.

      No man can accurately project the next Brady or Manning. Sorry.

      I guess I wasn't thinking through the draft.  If  you are close competitively speaking, you can find a competent QB to get you over the hump.  He should have done that in Tennessee.

      Back then many people were thinking McNair was going to turn on the switch and be elite. Who was Fisher supposed to sign? Griese? Batch? Delhomme? You're arguing just to argue now.If the Titans took Rodgers over Pacman Jones you'd likely see Fisher and Rodgers leading an elite team today. Hindsight is cute.

      If you try to look to the future on this board, you get chastised.  It's a message board, yesteryear seems to be where everyone wants to spend their time.

      You just talked about the past! Are you stupid!? xD

      I continuously get messages from fellow posters that have overwhelmingly claimed you as the dumbest on here.  Despite my best efforts to defend, I think you are helping sway their opinion against you. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2601

      How many tier 1 or 2 QBs has Fisher had? He's good at making lemonade out of lemons.

      If you stick with a 2nd tier QB than that's on you.  He's had plenty of opportunity to get great QBs.

      No man can accurately project the next Brady or Manning. Sorry.

      I guess I wasn't thinking through the draft.  If  you are close competitively speaking, you can find a competent QB to get you over the hump.  He should have done that in Tennessee.

      Back then many people were thinking McNair was going to turn on the switch and be elite. Who was Fisher supposed to sign? Griese? Batch? Delhomme? You're arguing just to argue now.If the Titans took Rodgers over Pacman Jones you'd likely see Fisher and Rodgers leading an elite team today. Hindsight is cute.

      If you try to look to the future on this board, you get chastised.  It's a message board, yesteryear seems to be where everyone wants to spend their time.

      You just talked about the past! Are you stupid!? xD

      I continuously get messages from fellow posters that have overwhelmingly claimed you as the dumbest on here.  Despite my best efforts to defend, I think you are helping sway their opinion against you.

      People private message you about me? I'm basically anonymous here. Please, screenshot it though. Unless you're lying.

      Please wait…

    • Scholty

      Participant
      Post count: 136

      Whatever talent Fisher has had to coach, he’s made it to the playoffs 6 times and, even after going to the Superbowl, still has a losing record in the postseason.Not impressed.

      Please wait…

Viewing 32 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.