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    • Trevor Sikkema

      Keymaster
      Post count: 378

    • DEBUCSOWN

      Participant
      Post count: 2750

      Land of the free? Hardly.

      • Anonymous

        Inactive
        Post count: 4188

        DEBUCSOWN
        May 23, 18 at 2:17 pm #1085162
        Land of the free? Hardly.

        ——–
        Hardly?

        If you work for an employer, you follow his rules or find another job.

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      You knew they were gonna do something. I believe the NBA has had this policy for many of years.

    • Defense5599

      Blocked
      Post count: 1843

      DEBUCSOWN
      May 23, 18 at 2:17 pm #1085162
      Land of the free? Hardly.

      Not when you have a job. If you don’t like job policies, find another job.

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Trump was quick to declare Anthem victory over the NFL today.

    • GottaJaboo

      Blocked
      Post count: 5942

      Trump’s as big a puppet as there has ever been. This stuff makes me laugh.

      GoldsonAges on 2nd round pick, Safety, Justin Evans, out of Texas A&M – “coaching can’t fix this”.

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      They’re all puppets.

    • Knucknbuc

      Participant
      Post count: 734

      Lol good I illegally stream all my bucs games anyways for free and I watched very little non bucs football then i used to. Now I’ll just watch none at all other then my illegal streams. Thanks Goodell. NFL gets no viewership from me. I believe in free speech not pandering to the fake Patriots that are probably digging in their nose getting a beer or swaying back and forth while this song plays anyways. White supremacy 101 change the narrative.

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      White supremacy? Give me a break.

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Why play it at all? I can see playing it at the Olympics and similar events.
      But at every game? Hell, they play 2 anthems at every hockey game.

      • ryan24

        Participant
        Post count: 796

        Why play it at all? I can see playing it at the Olympics and similar events.
        But at every game? Hell, they play 2 anthems at every hockey game.

        I agree but with all of the attention the anthem received the last couple of years, there’s no way it wasn’t going to be played. The knee-jerkers wouldn’t…um…stand for it.

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      Yeah I agree @The Anti-Java

    • mofuggahere

      Participant
      Post count: 106

      Lots of idiotic statements on this thread!

    • GottaJaboo

      Blocked
      Post count: 5942

      Agreed. Why is it even played? Both teams are from the same country…….every damn time.

      GoldsonAges on 2nd round pick, Safety, Justin Evans, out of Texas A&M – “coaching can’t fix this”.

    • Danny Santiago

      Participant
      Post count: 1

      I’m all for it. If you don’t want to stand & honor our flag you should leave this country. Many good men & women died for this flag & our freedom.

      • Lord Jameis Christ

        Participant
        Post count: 130

        No one dies for the flag. Soldiers die for other soldiers and civilians. If something happens to my flag I can order another one from China for 10 dollars.

    • GottaJaboo

      Blocked
      Post count: 5942

      Or if you truly believe in what the flag stands for, then go ahead and don’t worry about what a bunch of white supremacists think of your behavior if it’s not physically hurting someone.

      GoldsonAges on 2nd round pick, Safety, Justin Evans, out of Texas A&M – “coaching can’t fix this”.

    • BucBalla85

      Participant
      Post count: 2257

      Why play it at all? I can see playing it at the Olympics and similar events.
      But at every game? Hell, they play 2 anthems at every hockey game.

      They only play 2 if there is a team from Canada playing (Edmonton Oilers, Toronto Maple Leafs, etc.)

      I personally dont care for it being played at sporting events either. Not because I dont like the National Anthem or have a problem with our country. I am just impatient when it comes to sports though. I just want the games to get going.

    • jerseybucsfan

      Participant
      Post count: 551

      It’s all about $. This has nothing to do with morality or patriotism. Nothing to see here.

    • ryan24

      Participant
      Post count: 796

      It’s all about $. This has nothing to do with morality or patriotism. Nothing to see here.

      Absolutely…and one which probably will create more problems than it solves.

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      Now that this is done we can all get back to thinking about the games to be played each Sunday. There is a time and place for everything.

      • ryan24

        Participant
        Post count: 796

        Now that this is done we can all get back to thinking about the games to be played each Sunday. There is a time and place for everything.

        You’re sadly mistaken if you don’t realize that this change in protocol will very likely cause more attention to be paid to the situation.

    • DerekPHFD

      Participant
      Post count: 350

      Quick way to end the problem. Show the person performing the anthem. Don’t show players or fans. Shots of the flag, planes, etc. don’t say who sits, or have a line on ESPN of who sat. Out of sight out of mind

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      @DerekPHFD

      I think the Networks were doing this at the end of last season.

    • Justin

      Participant
      Post count: 2

      Two things that should never be disrespected are veterans and the flag. Kneeling during the anthem is very disrespectful to both and I put it in the same category as flag burning. If you want to take a stand on something there is a million different peaceful ways to make a difference.

      • Lord Jameis Christ

        Participant
        Post count: 130

        @Justin kneeling is not disrespectful. I recall taking a knee when my coaches wanted to speak to us. I’m not Christian but aren’t you supposed to pray on your knees? Because it shows respect? Ffs

      • Justin

        Participant
        Post count: 2

        @LJC Before the anthem everyone is asked to please stand and remove your hats. Coaches usually ask their players to take a knee and listen up. If your coach asked you to stand and you took a knee there would be consequences. People do kneel to pray and there is definitely a place for kneeling in society. Just not during our national anthem.

      • Lord Jameis Christ

        Participant
        Post count: 130

        @Justin if the announcer asked everyone to put on a hat, would hat wearing suddenly be a sign of respect? Does the Pope keep his official hat on? Sounds to me like a bunch of crap that someone made up.

        And no, none of my coaches punished anyone that stood instead of taking a knee. Talking while he was talking got you called out because that’s something that is actually disrespectful.

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      The league doesn’t care about patriotism, all they care about is their bottom line.
      There are several things they could do, I don’t see how this new stance changed anything. It just sounds like are passing the buck. The Jets owner already said today his players can kneel if they want, no fines.

      They could not play the anthem at all.
      They could not televise the anthem.
      They could keep the players in the locker rooms until after the anthem is played.

      The anthem thing started way back after WW2 was over and they wanted to honor the troops coming home. It might have outlived its usefulness by now. Just play it at the Super Bowl. I attend an NFL game every week at different stadiums, and most people don’t even pay attention to the anthem, they are running to the rest rooms or staring at the phones.

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Warren Sapp

      Verified account

      @WarrenSapp
      13m13 minutes ago
      Y’all lucky I’m retired. That would be ME!! @NFL

    • GIJoeWasThere

      Participant
      Post count: 857

      Faux outrage wins again. Angry fat white guys blood pressure rose, not because of someone kneeling, but because of their eating habits.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Over under on the pages in this thread…

      13?

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      Shame on the NFL and their pro-military, racist, God and country jingoistic agenda. Every other commercial is Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines propaganda. Drive a Chevy truck, watch the NFL, and join the Army and kill innocent women and children in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, and Iran (next). Fuck the NFL and fuck the imperialists that have been running this country for at least 100 hundred years now.

    • pewterblood

      Participant
      Post count: 577

      They probably want their ratings back up. I don’t blame them. People watch football for entertainment not for politics (which only pisses people off).

    • Ava’Jeno

      Participant
      Post count: 346

      Illegal streams for me….

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      Then the NFL should take their politics out of the game. I don’t need to see soldiers on the field — ever. I don’t need to see the flag and I don’t need to hear that song. And, again, the goddamn commercials. If they want the players to drop their agenda then they need to drop theirs.

      • DerekPHFD

        Participant
        Post count: 350

        Lol drop the agenda. There is one agenda, keep the company making billions. Bet they still do it.

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Watch the concession stands at any game while the anthem is playing. It’s business as usual. Nobody ever complained about those vendors and their customers disrespecting the flag, vets or the country. I guess in the minds of certain segments of Merica conducting concession business while the anthem is playing is more honorable than kneeling.

    • RudeGuy

      Participant
      Post count: 2226

      Brooks Dunn-Winston
      May 23, 18 at 8:58 pm #1085227
      Then the NFL should take their politics out of the game. I don’t need to see soldiers on the field — ever. I don’t need to see the flag and I don’t need to hear that song. And, again, the goddamn commercials. If they want the players to drop their agenda then they need to drop theirs

      Are you new to this planet? The players are employees of a company. They don’t get to make the rules. They are paid to follow the rules and please the customers. Really not hard to follow. No different than what most of us do. Only difference is they are on TV and some make millions. This does not make them equal to the owners of the company.

    • ryan24

      Participant
      Post count: 796

      They probably want their ratings back up. I don’t blame them. People watch football for entertainment not for politics (which only pisses people off).

      Anyone who believes the NFL’s move today will take the politics out of the game is mistaken. In fact, they put it right back into the game.

    • RudeGuy

      Participant
      Post count: 2226

      Ryan24
      May 23, 18 at 10:03 pm #1085232

      Anyone who believes the NFL’s move today will take the politics out of the game is mistaken. In fact, they put it right back into the game.

      Please do explain because the other pro sports leagues are not having an issue with more restrictive policies.

      • ryan24

        Participant
        Post count: 796

        Please do explain because the other pro sports leagues are not having an issue with more restrictive policies.

        The other sports dealt with this issue long ago. The NFL, by not conferring and getting a buy in from the players union just set this upcoming season up as one with further discord with the union in addition to every network and media outlet taking a roll call of who’s on the field, who is not and who’s kneeling.

    • Pewter Pirate

      Participant
      Post count: 1600

      It is funny reading this thread to see how easy the word “racism” is used on a rule that has absolutely nothing to do with race. Everything is now racist. When there is no logical argument just say the words racist or racism.

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      The faux outrage is hilarious.

    • PassThePigSkin

      Participant
      Post count: 438

      My grandpa fought for this country and how did it respect him? white only signs and racism.

    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 3035

      From my viewpoint, I don’t care if a player knees or stands.

      But if black players truly wanted to help other blacks,

      They could start a Trust to provide money for smart blacks to get higher education.

      Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 3035

      Today there are no laws that prevent a black man or women from getting ahead.

      Human Beings love and hate, and there will always be some who hate the blacks and some who hate the whites.

      That hatred is in the heart of the person and can’t be changed by laws or demonstrations.

      Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 3035

      And as far as being free, America is at or close to the top.

      Compare America to Venezuela or Yemen or Syria or Myanmar, for example,

      And then be happy that good luck arranged for you to be in America.

      Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      Today there are no laws that prevent a black man or women from getting ahead.

      And…this should go well.

    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2968

      This does nothing but divide the masses even further, as the criminals continue to plunder everything in sight. What a great distraction for them. When are people going to wake up?

      GottaJaboo wrote:
      (Justin) Evans will be far superior to (Budda) Baker in the pros.

      Dan Skipper Sucks! (lost bet)
      Update – UDFA Dan Skipper has been signed by the Dallas Cowboys

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Today there are no laws that prevent a black man or women from getting ahead.

      Its not the laws that are the problem.

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      The only group holding certain less fortunate minorities back are democrats. It’s been happening for years.

    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 3035

      Standing during the anthem is symbolic.

      Kneeling during the anthem is also symbolic.

      Neither action does anything substantial.

      One way to actually help black people is to provide education for those who can’t afford it.

      Have ad campaigns that make education a treasured accomplishment in the black community.

      There are black generals, black doctors, black lawyers, and black CEO’s of large US Corporations.

      Many of the Asians that come to this country have done well, especially 2nd generation

      They place an enormous premium on providing higher education for their children.

      If not higher education then a trade school.

      My air conditioner man for over 20 years is black and I have observed he knows more about air conditioning,
      than any other air conditioning men I have come in contract with.

      Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      The good ol’ boy owners are effectively saying to the players: “Don’t get all uppity on us, boy. Now just sit down (or in this case, “stand up”) and shut up. Ya’ll be a good n**** and don’t rock the boat or you gonna find yourself without a job.”

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      Today there are no laws that prevent a black man or women from getting ahead.

      Discrimination is dead in America? Yay!!

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      From @POTUS:

      “I don’t think people should be staying in the locker rooms. . . . You have to stand proudly for the national anthem, or you shouldn’t be playing, you shouldn’t be there. Maybe you shouldn’t be in the country. You have to stand proudly for the national anthem.”

    • GottaJaboo

      Blocked
      Post count: 5942

      @The Anti-Java – the POTUS may be the biggest clown to ever lead anything. Him and Roger Stone should go get lobotomies together.

      GoldsonAges on 2nd round pick, Safety, Justin Evans, out of Texas A&M – “coaching can’t fix this”.

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      I love how Trump is now suggesting that they “shouldn’t be here”.

      Coming from the biggest draft dodging pussy to ever sit in the Oval Office. From the guy who insulted a Gold Star family. The guy who patronized the Purple Heart. The guy who publicly insulted a POW.

      Rich…

    • Dy-nasty D

      Participant
      Post count: 268

      It’s all about money for both owners and players. Free speech doesn’t completely extend into the work place. I’m a teacher and I can’t say whatever I want, unless I’m willing to take the consequences.

      Sounds like a fair call to me, and I’m fairly liberal. I’ve got no problem with players kneeling, but protests don’t always come without sacrifice. Man up and take the consequences if it means that much to you. I’m good either way.

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Steve Kerr on the NFL’s new anthem rule: “Typical of the NFL. Appealing to their fanbase. Basically just trying to use the anthem as fake patriotism, nationalism. Idiotic.”

      10:15 AM – 24 May 2018

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      But are fans even bothered by players taking a knee!? Really? If so, what fucking idiots they are.

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      @JFowlerESPN
      38m38 minutes ago
      Steelers corner Artie Burns on protesting players having to stay in the locker room during the anthem or face discipline/team fines: “You talk about bullying, man. That’s bullying.”

    • RudeGuy

      Participant
      Post count: 2226

      ISLAND BUCS
      May 24, 18 at 1:11 am #1085267
      Standing during the anthem is symbolic.

      One way to actually help black people is to provide education for those who can’t afford it.

      Have ad campaigns that make education a treasured accomplishment in the black community.

      If not higher education then a trade school.

      These are wonderful proactive steps for better paying employment. We in the Hispanic community have been taking such steps for years. I have seen it work. This however is a different platform from the kneeling players if I’m not mistaken.

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      I guess Steve Kerr doesn’t like the policy in the NBA either? Pretty sure the NBA requires everybody to stand.

    • Timbuc2

      Participant
      Post count: 601

      Justin
      May 23, 18 at 6:18 pm #1085207
      Two things that should never be disrespected are veterans and the flag. Kneeling during the anthem is very disrespectful to both and I put it in the same category as flag burning. If you want to take a stand on something there is a million different peaceful ways to make a difference.

      People are more tolerant to flag burning than kneeling! Imagine that…

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Godwin asked about the anthem subject.

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Koetter on the subject

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Adam Schefter

      Verified account

      @AdamSchefter
      3m3 minutes ago
      Deshaun Watson and Carson Wentz try to return from knee injuries, Andrew Luck from a shoulder injury, Kirk Cousins debuts for Vikings and Jon Gruden returns to Oakland…yet the biggest week 1 storyline is shaping up to be who stands for anthem and who stays in locker room.

    • obuc

      Participant
      Post count: 147

      I am not a Trump guy at all but I dont see the big deal here. Protest? Sure, why not but while you are clocked in at work? A business has a right to project an image of uniformity if they want. They are paying you for your 3 hours there. Those 3 hours are not yours. If you want to make a statement, then turn in your paycheck, go sit in the stands and sit for the anthem. Afterwards, use your celebrity to make some noise but on that Sunday afternoon, you are a part of a package someone is selling.

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      Since a certain part of the fan base is triggered and offended over the supposed lack of respect towards the military, country, anthem, etc.; we should go all out to make sure the anthem gets the most attention and respect possible.

      All beer, food, and retail vendors should be shut down 15 minutes prior to the anthem, until its conclusion. Stadium wifi should be temporarily suspended during this time as well.

      • ryan24

        Participant
        Post count: 796

        All beer, food, and retail vendors should be shut down 15 minutes prior to the anthem, until its conclusion. Stadium wifi should be temporarily suspended during this time as well.

        One of the owners mentioned that his team will be doing this going forward (closing concessions during the anthem).

    • GottaJaboo

      Blocked
      Post count: 5942

      @DH – This is a great point.

      I don’t want to come off as someone that doesn’t respect the Military, as I certainly do. I just no bullshit when I hear it. This was completed motivated by the “I’m going to out-freedom you” alt right set, that has come into vogue since Trump fanned the flames of the government tit sucking slim shadys and their need to hate. It’s a lousy look.

      GoldsonAges on 2nd round pick, Safety, Justin Evans, out of Texas A&M – “coaching can’t fix this”.

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      @gottajaboo imo it’s not about Trump. It’s more about the bottom line.

    • GottaJaboo

      Blocked
      Post count: 5942

      @Buccnation – I guess my point is, this wouldn’t be such a thing if Mr divisive wasn’t in the oval office.

      GoldsonAges on 2nd round pick, Safety, Justin Evans, out of Texas A&M – “coaching can’t fix this”.

    • ranman

      Participant
      Post count: 3

      A lot of valid posts on this topic. Since we are all different in our backgrounds, beliefs, and skin color, I don’t think we will be united in how we view this. It just further makes the NFL look like idiots by kicking the can last year and then coming out with a watered down policy this year. Oh well – can’t wait until August…

    • PassThePigSkin

      Participant
      Post count: 438

      Should we do away with confederate flags? That is s huge slap in the face to the American flag since we are all patriotic.

    • Lord Jameis Christ

      Participant
      Post count: 130

      @Island Bucs the players aren’t protesting the economic conditions of black people. They are protesting the fact that police murder unarmed people and get away with it.

      They protest at work during the anthem because millions of eyes are watching and the ESPN guys start talking about it. Why the anthem? Because neither Obama or Trump have done sht to mitigate police killings, but Trump will whine and moan and demand harsh punishment when a police officer gets killed by a citizen.

      Or as @potus would tweet, #unfair! #sad!

    • TheChronicHotAir

      Participant
      Post count: 5700

      Bow and kiss Trump’s ring.

      Thank you Trump for not being Barack huisein allah snackbar al’bergdahl-bagdahti Obama.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      We should ban the national anthem during all games. It’s a goddamn football game for god sakes. Why all this phony, pro-military, jingoistic patriotic nonsense during a game?

      Anyone with an independent mind would NOT be pro-military. I support the troops and I empathize with their plight. They’ve all been lied to. If you really supported the troops you would bring them all home. If not, your’e just a phony lying sack of shit. Fuck the president and fuck the military leadership.

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      GottaJaboo
      May 24, 18 at 4:27 pm #1085362


      @buccnation
      – I guess my point is, this wouldn’t be such a thing if Mr divisive wasn’t in the oval office.

      Obama or Trump? They are both divisive. Depends on what side of the fence you are on.

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      Brooks Dunn-Winston
      May 24, 18 at 7:35 pm #1085387
      We should ban the national anthem during all games. It’s a goddamn football game for god sakes. Why all this phony, pro-military, jingoistic patriotic nonsense during a game?

      Anyone with an independent mind would NOT be pro-military. I support the troops and I empathize with their plight. They’ve all been lied to. If you really supported the troops you would bring them all home. If not, your’e just a phony lying sack of shit. Fuck the president and fuck the military leadership.

      And just like that 25 countries would be nuclear. Great plan.

    • NotDeadYet

      Participant
      Post count: 1284

      Players are no longer required to stand on the field for the National Anthem. That is how it was up until a few years ago. Can’t get much more fair than that…

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      “The players … I would say, they’re more confused by the move than anything,” Bucs player rep Ali Marpet said.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1309

      Everyone should read the Constitutions first Amendment.

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      The Anti-Java
      May 24, 18 at 8:01 pm #1085394
      “The players … I would say, they’re more confused by the move than anything,” Bucs player rep Ali Marpet said.

      Great! One more thing our confused offensive line needs to worry about before a game.

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      Skipper
      May 24, 18 at 8:05 pm #1085396
      Everyone should read the Constitutions first Amendment.

      Does not apply to the workplace.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      @ And just like that 25 countries would be nuclear. Great plan.

      So our imperialistic overreach is really just our global duty to keep the world free from nuclear weapons. Wow. You’re drowning in the kool-aide.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      My over-under was 9 pages… it’s looking closer to 13 now. Any takers?

    • Timbuc2

      Participant
      Post count: 601

      If it were Tom Brady taking a knee for police killings, would there be all of this?

      Would it be said that he was disrespecting the flag?

      I bet the first comment from the league and trump would be, “we need to look into
      what is troubling Tom!”

      What’s next, we have to stay in our houses, because we don’t conform to certain thoughts of others.

      You are damn right, if disrespecting the flag means so much to the NFL, fans, and the President
      they should shut down the concession stands and bathrooms while the anthem is being played.

      This is so damn hypocritical it’s sickening. We wonder why people are doing stupid shit and mass
      murdering in this country. We as adults don’t even care that kids are looking at this crap, that’s
      the bad part.

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      Don’t care that kids are looking at what? How does this have anything to do with the mass shootings and school shootings?

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Go watch the Sterling Brown video. This is the type of situation the players are protesting against. Although a certain segment doesn’t believe or care about it, this stuff happens far too often in this land of the free.

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 4077

      1) The 1st Amendment prevents the government from limiting free speech. It doesn’t prevent a private company from having policies for their place of business.

      2) The 1st Amendment applies to both sides. When someone says “I have the freedom of speech. You don’t have the right to get mad.” Well I have the freedom of speech to tell you that you are full of it.

      3) I support the protestors who kneeled during the nation anthem. They made it clear it has nothing to do with veterans. You may not think they used the best method, but somebody has to do something. I haven’t heard anybody who is against the protests really come up with a better solution. We have a serious problem in this country. Its more serious for the people who are afraid of getting shot. But its serious for all of us, because its our nation and we shouldn’t tolerate when there is a systemic problem in our justice system. These anti-protestors don’t like the protesting, but all they want to do is sit on their ass and watch football. They don’t want to do a damn thing. They are fine if someone is getting pulled over for no reason, or if someone is getting shot as long as they don’t have to worry about it. All they care about is someone interrupting their game. Well, if you don’t want to do anything about a problem, don’t criticize the people are actually doing something.

      4) I support the NFL having a policy for the protests. They didn’t volunteer to be the ongoing forum for the airing of grievances for years to come. They have a business to run. People need to find another way to continue bringing this issue to the forefront.

      5) What about some other people showing support for this issue instead of jumping on the defensive? What about football fans, or even veterans or police officers? Instead of getting all defensive and flag waving, how about showing support and solidarity with those who are being unfairly targeted? I guess thats a crazy idea. Sorry I mentioned it.

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      @HarryBucman Statistics show it happens to far more white people than minorities. People need to just cooperate and stop resisting and 99.9% of the time things will turn out just fine.

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 4077

      Buccnation. What statistics?

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      @Roy Look at the Washington Post, Newsweek, or Snopes.com. I was talking about overall numbers. Now, black citizens have a higher percentage chance of getting shot by police due to the population percentages but black citizens cause way more violent crimes so the percentages would obviously favor their race over any other.

      I’m not saying that police can not or should not do better at their jobs but I also put blame on the general public when interacting with police. When you resist then things get ugly. It’s not just the police that have to do a better job.

      Random and Off topic but I hate how the media puts pictures up of these killers in these mass shootings or school shootings too. They mention their names and show their pictures which is exactly what they want. We need to stop doing that all together.

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        BucNation it shouldn’t happen to anyone

    • Ja’crispy

      Participant
      Post count: 958

      I am a firm believer that everyone should should stand for the national anthem. If you want to protest something because you feel strongly about a cause im all for it. There way better options to do so. Its disrespectful to our country, the flag, and millions of members of our military. The NFL is a business and the players are employees of that business. If you dont follow the rules and policies then you will be fired. If the players dont like the rules and policies they can go find another job. They should be respecting the country and company that gives them the opportunity to make millions of dollars playing football.

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      People need to just cooperate and stop resisting and 99.9% of the time things will turn out just fine.

      Weird how then how that .1% of the time just happen to always have the same theme.

      What’s even more weird is how these mass shooters all seem to be taken into custody with no issue, yet, how many instances do we see where LEO’s shoot unarmed civilians.

      I wonder what the difference is?

      Weird…

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      @Ryan24

      May 24, 18 at 3:56 pm #1085353
      All beer, food, and retail vendors should be shut down 15 minutes prior to the anthem, until its conclusion. Stadium wifi should be temporarily suspended during this time as well.

      One of the owners mentioned that his team will be doing this going forward (closing concessions during the anthem).

      Missed this comment.

      That’s freaking awesome and I hope the other 31 teams follow suit.

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      @Harrybucman You’re right it shouldn’t happen to anyone I’m not arguing with that but if an individual pulls a weapon on you then you shoot them. Just like in Oklahoma yesterday, if someone puts my life or my family’s lives in danger then, as an armed citizen, I am shooting them.

      Also, these mass shooters are cowards and either kill themselves or give up. Other individuals on the streets tend to fight or have weapons that put the officers lives in danger. Look I am not saying there aren’t bad cops because there are. When bad cops do stupid shit then they should be held to the same standard as everyone else, all I am saying is some people don’t respect the police and want to fight or hurt them and the cops are put in a lose lose situation.

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      Also, these mass shooters are cowards and either kill themselves or give up. Other individuals on the streets tend to fight or have weapons that put the officers lives in danger.

      Smh…

      Sure, pal.

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      You’re saying people (people of all races) don’t fight with police?

      Have you actually done a ride along with a police officer recently?

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Bucnation, go watch the Sterling Brown video and tell us what he did to deserve being treated the way he was. If you’re ok with any people in this country being treated like that–God bless you. Because your uncaring attitude is a perfect example why this serious problem is still a serious problem.

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      Buccnation
      May 25, 18 at 10:58 am #1085479
      You’re saying people (people of all races) don’t fight with police?

      Have you actually done a ride along with a police officer recently?

      I don’t need to tag along with an LEO to know what’s going on, buddy.

      I also didn’t say, nor elude, to anything that states that LEO’s don’t deal with violent people.

      But, I know why guys like Kap and others have taken a knee.

      And, if you don’t (or simply pretend to not know why), I’m not going to expend any energy pulling your head out of the sand.

    • BucBalla85

      Participant
      Post count: 2257

      Police brutality shouldnt exist anywhere but I just found the way the players protested the anthem as a weird way to protest it. I thought the problem being ignorant policeman in general and not a reflection of the police as a whole. Not all cops are racist or use police brutality. Wouldnt it have made more sense to hold some rallies outside of major police stations to end it? I thought the National Anthem protest just caused a whole other problem that separated the country. I think there are far better ways to handle this and it can still be protested in a much better way. One that doesnt offend others who have nothing to do with the problem.

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      Did you guys read any of my posts? I said that there are bad cops that do bad shit and should be held to the same standards as you or I.

      I also feel that all cops are being portrayed in a light that makes their job extremely difficult. The.01% of bad cops shouldn’t paint the picture that every cop is bad.

      How is anything I have said uncaring?

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      This was a moot issue, that more or less, went away before the beginning of last season. Kaep, and other players, made a bold statement about the social injustices and racial inequalities that occur within our law enforcement system. It was a peaceful statement. Period.

      But, Trump simply had to reignite an old beef with the NFL. He doesn’t give a shit about the military, anthem, etc. (proven by his words and actions towards Gold Star families, Purple Heart recipients, POW’s). It was all about getting back and at a group that he felt “wronged” him, since they didn’t want him to be part of the “club”. So, in order to drudge up the support he needed, he pandered to a certain type of crowd. He had to fire up that ‘Merica sect of his core, otherwise the issue would’ve remained dead.

      So, as I’ve suggested before, if ‘Merica truly cares that much; then the following actions should be taken at every game:

      * All alcohol, food, retail, and ticket sales to be suspended 20 minutes prior to anthem
      * All stadium employees (and sub-contracted vendors), greeters, security, LEO’s, cameramen (so no television feeds), radio announcers, television analysts, etc. must stop what they’re doing and stand for colors.
      * Gates into the stadium should halt all entrants 20 minutes prior to anthem
      * Anyone on their phones or talking during the anthem (unless singing) are subjected to immediate ejection from the stadium with no exception

    • BucNCane

      Participant
      Post count: 1066

      Regardless of whatever % you’re using. It doesn’t make a difference. Protest isn’t against all cops. It’s against shooting unarmed people of color.

      So saying some are armed is irrelevant. Again. It’s against shooting unarmed people of color.

      You agree that “bad” cops should be held accountable. How many of them have? From the looks of it, not many, if any.

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      Agreed the nfl looks stupid like they always do now a days. Nothing needed to be done. They should of never changed their policy back in 09. It was all about money unfortunately.

    • Timbuc2

      Participant
      Post count: 601

      Buccnation
      May 25, 18 at 5:42 am #1085422
      Don’t care that kids are looking at what? How does this have anything to do with the mass shootings and school shootings?

      Maybe you haven’t noticed but kids are doing mass and school shootings.

      • buccnation

        Participant
        Post count: 1355

        @Timbuc2 I didn’t know what you meant when you said the kids are looking at this. Looking at the protests or when the media highlights all the killers in these mass shootings?

        Was just confused that’s all.

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      There is a much better way for players to get their message out for a cause without stepping on anyone’s feet. Start a collection from players of all leagues who would like to pay for commercials/ads on TV, radio, and social media to get their message to the masses. It works for everything else.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      The NFL finally made the right decision. The reason they are kneeling is based on a pack of lies the cops are mowing down African Americans for no reason. It was started by a man who thinks Cuba is a model Nation. They’re not civil rights heroes, just ignorant athletes who wasted their college education. I really don’t think that cops are targeting minorities just looking to abuse them for no reason. I’m not naive enough to say racism is totally non-existent but it is nowhere near the extent that these people think it is and it also exists on both sides. If they believe so strongly about the issue they should be drawing attention to it in a way that doesn’t divide people and instead unifies.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      I also want to ask seriously to people who have really studied the issue and believe cops harass black people for no reason: what is your solution? They have been wearing body cameras and it shows nothing wrong happening and now people are saying body cameras are racist. So what exactly do you want? Are cops just not allowed to pull over or stop people of color?

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 2538

      So what does protesting the American flag and the National anthem have to do with bad police behavior? Seems like it would be far more effective to protest in front of any police department where such horrific decisions occurred.

      It is not America’s fault that some police departments have a few thugs wearing a badge.

      Far too much hatred for America from many in this thread. Might I suggest visiting places like Venezuela and Cuba to see how their law enforcement behaves for comparison.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Patriotism and Nationalism are often obfuscated in these debates.

      …and DK hit the nail on the head. There is so much fake outrage over this.

    • Pewter Pirate

      Participant
      Post count: 1600

      I love reading the posts about how the NFL should peanalize the fans (customers) with such comments like ejecting fans for being on phone during anthem or stopping concessions to attack the fans.

      For all of those comments: FANS ARE CUSTOMERS AND PLAYERS ARE EMPLOYEES. Its not the employee is always right, its the customer who is always right. Business people do not arrack customers when employees do something stupid. Also fans do not work for the NFL and thus NFL does not regulate fans (unless doing something illegal like fighting). Players work for the NFL and are thereby regulated by the NFL. Players are on the clock when they enter the stadium. Players are even required to give interviews after the game or get fined.

      Also the NFL is a private organization. Free speech FIrst Amendment applies to government restrictions on speech not employers. Employers can restrict speech while an employee is on the clock.

      Last, this is not a racist policy as it applies to all players. For instance if a a white environmentalist wants to kneel to bring saving the planet as an issue there are now consequences.

    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 3035

      Good post Mr. Pewter

      Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Is this about respecting the flag or employees doing as they’re told? I’m confused by your false patriotism…

    • ryan24

      Participant
      Post count: 796

      I support players who wish to kneel during the anthem. I also support the NFL, as a private organization, to require the players to stand during the anthem or take the option of staying in the locker room.

      What was stupid on the part of the NFL was the process they undertook to get to where we are today.

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      I love reading the posts about how the NFL should peanalize the fans (customers) with such comments like ejecting fans for being on phone during anthem or stopping concessions to attack the fans.

      It’s not penalizing the fans. It’s penalizing those who won’t respect the flag, and the troops, and ‘Merica, and stuff.

    • Timbuc2

      Participant
      Post count: 601

      Redrum
      May 25, 18 at 2:03 pm #1085501
      The NFL finally made the right decision. The reason they are kneeling is based on a pack of lies the cops are mowing down African Americans for no reason. It was started by a man who thinks Cuba is a model Nation. They’re not civil rights heroes, just ignorant athletes who wasted their college education. I really don’t think that cops are targeting minorities just looking to abuse them for no reason. I’m not naive enough to say racism is totally non-existent but it is nowhere near the extent that these people think it is and it also exists on both sides. If they believe so strongly about the issue they should be drawing attention to it in a way that doesn’t divide people and instead unifies

      “The reason they are kneeling is based on a pack of lies the cops are mowing down African Americans for no reason.”
      Not all cops that are trigger happy. However isolated cases that we (and you) clearly see and that are raised are people of color being killed and not even having a weapon on them at all. However you slice it, this should never happen.

      “It was started by a man who thinks Cuba is a model Nation.”
      Wrong, this has been going on for decades and you know it but don’t want to admit it.

      “They’re not civil rights heroes, just ignorant athletes who wasted their college education.”
      This just sounds stupid period. How have they wasted their college education?

      “I’m not naive enough to say racism is totally non-existent but it is nowhere near the extent that these people think it is and it also exists on both sides.”
      What qualifies you to say that racism is not to the extent that people think it is? Do you live it everyday? How does it exists on both sides?

      “If they believe so strongly about the issue they should be drawing attention to it in a way that doesn’t divide people and instead unifies”
      So if it doesn’t appease you it’s a divide? If it does appease you it unifies?

      “They have been wearing body cameras and it shows nothing wrong happening and now people are saying body cameras are racist.”
      Body cameras are were it shows things happening that are wrong. Like the black kid that got shot in Chicago 5 times after stealing a car and a police chase. The Police were trying to cover it up right after it happened and the conversation was clearly heard. The Chief comes up and calls them stupid for still having their bodycams on and tells them to turn it off. Then there is the one that got shot in Minnesota with his family in the car. Again no weapon. I could go on and on but I am not. You have seen these incidents but forget about them because you don’t care, bottom line. This is what the kneeling was for, awareness and you know what? It worked!

      Again I ask, what if Tom Brady kneeled (for the same issue as Kap) instead of Kap? Would he be labeled as disrepecting the flag? We all know the answer to that.

    • Timbuc2

      Participant
      Post count: 601

      Pewter Pirate
      May 25, 18 at 6:26 pm #1085515
      I love reading the posts about how the NFL should peanalize the fans (customers) with such comments like ejecting fans for being on phone during anthem or stopping concessions to attack the fans.

      For all of those comments: FANS ARE CUSTOMERS AND PLAYERS ARE EMPLOYEES. Its not the employee is always right, its the customer who is always right. Business people do not arrack customers when employees do something stupid. Also fans do not work for the NFL and thus NFL does not regulate fans (unless doing something illegal like fighting). Players work for the NFL and are thereby regulated by the NFL. Players are on the clock when they enter the stadium. Players are even required to give interviews after the game or get fined.

      Also the NFL is a private organization. Free speech FIrst Amendment applies to government restrictions on speech not employers. Employers can restrict speech while an employee is on the clock.

      Last, this is not a racist policy as it applies to all players. For instance if a a white environmentalist wants to kneel to bring saving the planet as an issue there are now consequences.

      You know what pal? I see everyday how people throw temper tantrums on their jobs and to police because they feel that they are not getting their way. I have even seen those people slap, spit at, and push the Police. I think you know the people that I am talking about. I see employers who do everything they can to sweep things under the rug to give them a chance. However, if it were certain other people, they would be labeled a trouble maker, shit canned immediately, or in the police’s case, the people would be shot or arrested.

      Fans being customers should not give them any special rights like they can do what they want either. There is nothing stopping them from being subjected to certain rules. People in this country are so freakin’ spoiled!

    • Lord Jameis Christ

      Participant
      Post count: 130

      @Redrum there are thousands of YouTube videos where American cops harass people of all races. There are hundreds of YouTube videos of cops shooting people that are complying. I saw a bodycam video where the cops planted drugs on a suspect.

      You can give us the Java esque runaround but proof has mounted up over the past decade.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Timbuc2 The kneeling was started by Kap. If Tom Brady did it I would be saying he was an idiot. They wasted their college education because they are stupid by and large. Just watch them give an interview. It’s obvious most NFL players are not bright. From experience not many people I know of are racist. I and everyone I know give people a chance no matter what color you are. Mike Brown used his fists as a weapon and deserved to be shot no matter what color he is. I can’t speak to the cases you mentioned because I’m unfamiliar with them. Kneeling during the anthem is divisive and has done NOTHING to change or fix the supposed issue. What are your suggestions to fix the issue? Body cameras would have been mine but clearly that isn’t enough. And yeah, O.J. was innocent too. Black communities were much better off before Lyndon Johnson and the democrats gave them a victim mentality and destroyed their family unit and spirit of entrepreneurship. Until they stop thinking of themselves as victims and glorifying thug life with their music and t.v. shows it’s not going to get better. If you steal a car and run from the cops you might get shot. That’s true no matter what color you are.

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Redrum says “I can’t speak to the cases you mentioned because I’m unfamiliar with them.
        That’s the perfect definition of ignorance. Speaking about issues you are unfamiliar with. Almost everything you have posted falls under the same category. Sure seems like you are unfamiliar with a lot about real life in Merica.

    • harrybucman

      Participant
      Post count: 883

      Redrum writes”Black communities were much better off before Johnson and the democrats gave them a victim mentality and destroyed their family unit and spirit of entrepreneurship. Until they stop thinking of themselves as victims and glorifying thug life with their music and t.v. shows it’s not going to get better.”

      That is some of the dumbest sh”’t that has ever ben written on this board. You need to get out more. You are judging a whole race on the actions of a very few. Most blacks don’t even live in those ” Black communities, you are talking about. Example I have 5 siblings we are all college educated professionals who own our homes in subdivisions you probably couldn’t even afford. I have 5 kids all are college educated professionals who live well and are raising their kids to do the same. And I can say the same for most of my friends. Where did you get that ignorant idea that even most blacks glorify thug life or have a victims mentality. You are one ignorant, misinformed SOB. The more you comment the dumber you sound.
      Kneeling has done nothing to fix or change the situation–wrong again buddy.
      The NFL is donating $100 million to address the kneeling player’s issues. The same issues you say don’t exist.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21932

      How many NFL owners are old white guys?

    • GIJoeWasThere

      Participant
      Post count: 857

      Well Crownless we know the owners of the Buccaneers are buddy buddy with Donald the draft dodger.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Harrybucman obviously was not referring to the entire race of black people. Of course there are many successful black people who don’t fall under the category I was discussing. I’m happy for you and your family. The inner cities are a mess however and they have been for a long time. Cities run by democrats who perpetuate the victim mentality and feed off making minorities think white people are out to get them. That 100 million the NFL is donating will do nothing. Where is it even going to? Of course I’m ignorant to some incidences between law enforcement and minorities. Are you aware of every time a black person is stopped in Merica? I am just saying based on the cases I have looked at cops have been in the right. What’s your solution? Awareness? Vague

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Red where did you get the idea that all those blacks think whites are out to get them from. Did you ask them or did somebody tell you that. I’ve been black for a long time and my career put me in a position to have had discussions with thousands and I haven’t seen that mindset. Sure we have serious problems in the inner-cities but that’s not representative of the race. There are some serious problems in the trailer parks and rural areas of this country. Are those disadvantaged people representative of the entire white race?
        How do you know what that $100 million and the matching funds, from the players, is going to accomplish, when you don’t even have a clue about what the real problem is.
        You are so un-imformed buddy. Stop before you dig a hole you can’t climb out of.

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Yes the are many successful black people, way more than you even realize and a great percentage of us would not have had that opportunity before ” Black communities were much better off before Lyndon Johnson and the democrats gave them a victim mentality and destroyed their family unit and spirit of entrepreneurship.”

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @harrybucman Why don’t you tell me how to fix the inner cities and police discrimination? I’m guessing your solutions are to throw more government money at the problem. All the books I have read say inner cities were better off before the great society and spiraled downward after. I have yet to see where the NFL is allocating the 100 million just generalizations. Dems have been throwing billions at inner cities since LBJ and they are worse. If you have real solutions and not just vague awareness I would sincerely like to know. Educate me because I’ve read a lot on the issue and I’m pretty confident I know what the problems are.

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Well Drum Fixing the septic tank (inner cities) is not the answer, you pull more people out. But that’s not even the issue on the board. The protests are about how police treat blacks. The Police departments are going to eventually fix themselves. Thanks to all the video evidence out there now– that municipalities are paying out millions to victims of officer misconduct. Eventually they are going to have to put the bad boys in check or it’s going to break them. You should do some research on the many cases where the officer did dirt, lied about it and video evidence busts them. 1% is a very conservative estimate homeboy. Stop guessing about my solutions–you wouldn’t have a clue and maybe you need to read some different authors. Cause you are so mis-informed–too mis-informed to offer intelligent arguments.

    • tmac87

      Participant
      Post count: 42

      Not renewing my Sunday ticket. Just call me #IllegalStreamShawty.

      Can’t we just focus on sports? No! Blacks are not cool with a second class citizenship, and white dudes feel uncomfortable when the subject is breached. Worse, some just want blacks to stay in their place. “Shut up and dribble”, as it were. *Hardest eye roll, ever*

      White supremacy?! No way, man! I just love my country and you should, too! Now the only thing we are allowed to do is say how great America is, why it never needs introspection, and how it doesn’t deserve critique. Why would a black man love America as much as a white man? Truly think about that. Until white people are affected by these same injustices, in the same ways, why would it change?
      It’s like women’s rights. I am in support of them, but at the end of the day, I’m not a woman… so I’m not as invested as they are, and it truly doesn’t matter to my life; but at least I want them to be true equals. On the other hand, some people actively fight against strides for equality? WHY THO? Eventually, to those in power, encroaching equality feels like oppression.

      I wish people would be honest about this. We are so close to hearing the truth. “Shut up and dribble” “Why are they complaining, they make millions of dollars?” … Like LeBron, who’s worth half a billion, didn’t have the word “N*gger” spray painted on his house. Like Jay-Z said, “They want to pay you good, while they treat you bad. F*ck that!

      Trump has comforted the racists, and encouraged their views. Just say you want black people to stop complaining, shut up, and go back to the convenient square in society you carved out for them. Just keep it 1K! (1K means real; honest and transparent.. for those unaware)

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      I also want to know what specifically Donald Trump has said that is racist?

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 2538

      Today no matter what ethnicity declaring yourself a victim in the greatest country in the world seems a bit foolish and defines absurd entitlement.

      As to bad behavior by police when they are arresting someone there are rules to follow
      if they go beyond those rules they need to be held accountable. Certainly, there are examples of bad police behavior but the vast majority of law enforcement are not thugs just like the majority of any ethnicity are not criminals. Burning down buildings and rioting is not the proper response.

      When involved in criminal activity one deserves to be arrested. When arrested law enforcement should never be the judge jury and executioner unless they are in a potential life or death struggle. The simple solution to anyone arrested is to cooperate without becoming violent.

      All the above being said what has any of that got to do with kneeling for the National Anthem and Flag? Makes no sense.

      Not a good look for anyone doing the kneeling. Far more effective going to the source of anger. Football fans and the sport are blameless and are at the game because they want to watch the sport. They didn’t attend for the purpose of going to some political rally. Disrespecting America that gave those players the opportunity to become fabulously wealthy is the WRONG scapegoat. The players are there to play the game. If their purpose is a political cause they need to do it on their own time, or just get out of the sport and dedicate themselves to social injustice in a more positive way. Just like any job you leave your politics and religion at home unless your job is doing something grossly unfair to you personally. That is a different topic altogether.

      The NFL and fans are the misplaced victims in the whole issue. That is why they BOO when presented with such behavior. jmo

      Kap telling the world that Cuba is a better place to live than America is incredibly ignorant and stupid. Let him live there a few years and he might actually see how stupid he really is.

      • tmac87

        Participant
        Post count: 42

        @Runole “The simple solution to anyone arrested is to cooperate without becoming violent.”

        Tell that to Philando Castile… and he wasn’t even involved with criminal activity. lmao
        God bless it! I wish I could be a white man, and have my only worry be my tax bracket, too. *Yet another eye roll*

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @harrybucman where did I say 1%? So you are a fan of school choice? That’s what the democrats ended in Washington. So your answer for cops is it will sort itself out? That’s great! We don’t need to worry about it any more then and they can stop protesting. Trying to hear some solutions from you so I don’t have to guess but you won’t offer any. You just keep repeating the “you just don’t understand” arguement. Also, please suggest some authors I can look into.

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Read your own posts– you said 1% of the police are bad boys.
        Since you can’t catch on–let me make it simple. Keep video taping them and the truth will prevail. And what does school choice have to do with the prevailing topic.
        You can’t even grasp what’s already on the board, why stretch your pea brain any further.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      Read my posts I already suggested body cameras were the answer. Body cameras will show that some are bad probably more than 1% (which I never said by the way) but it will also show a lot of people lying about how they were treated. We were discussing how to fix inner cities. That involves school choice. Good to know you have no answers just name calling.

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Red, I apologize it was Bucnation who offered that 1% guesstimate.

    • harrybucman

      Participant
      Post count: 883

      You were discussing fixing the inner cities not me. My discussion and this thread is about the NFL updated Protest Policy. If you want to discuss other social issues start a thread on the other board. I’m not going to let you drag me somewhere I don’t want to go. You said the body cameras have shown nothing. Then after another poster pointed out otherwise, you said you’re not familiar with those cases. Then you shouldn’t make definitive statements like ” body cams have shown nothing”. Not trying to belittle you but before you post strong statements like that, at least be a little informed about the subject matter. Is that too much to ask?

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 2538

      Tmac 87

      Have you ever been brutalized by a police officer? I am all for any police officer who over steps the line to be treated just like a criminal because they are. Law enforcement’s prime directive is protection of person, property, and the one’s we love.
      I have been detained for no reason many times by law enforcement that were profiling me.
      My crime was being out after 2 am on the road driving my vehicle
      . There are bad apples in every profession and I certainly think the standards need to be raised on those who go into the law enforcement field.

      The tragedy you mentioned should have never happened and the review was an atrocity of justice. So the response should be rioting and burning down buildings of local store owners? Should any law enforcement officer be shot by someone angered over that senseless death? Bottom line the individual was stopped for a reason and everything went bad… Killing other officers because of the tragedy is abhorrent and unacceptable. What was the crime of officers that have been killed for no reason?

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      I’m sure there are cops who abuse their power. I would never argue otherwise. I’m also sure there are people who lie about being mistreated. I could show you videos I’ve seen where people lied just as you could show me cases where cops lied. I agree they should all have body cameras. I also think NFL players could have gone about drawing attention to the issue in a way that would have drawn just as many eyes and a lot less controversy. Thanks for the apology.

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Redrum says” I also think NFL players could have gone about drawing attention to the issue in a way that would have drawn just as many eyes and a lot less controversy”.
        I’m sure the British Government used that same argument after the Boston Tea party. This country was born out of controversial protest, when did the game change?
        Personally, I believe the issue is more about who’s protesting than the mode of protesting.
        Teachers had walk out protests in about 5 states this year. Which is more disruptive–players kneeling or teachers walking out of their classrooms. Where is the outrage?

    • tmac87

      Participant
      Post count: 42

      @Runole Have you ever been brutalized by a police officer? – Not sure of the point to this question. If I have, does it make me more credible? If I haven’t, does it make my argument baseless?

      I, like many people, have been profiled (let’s not forget our Arab brethren). One time, naturally, my car “smelled like weed”, which gave them probable cause to begin a search. Found nothing, released from squad car and cuffs, no apology given. Told me my car was really nice for that area. A 2010 Nissan Altima Coupe? lol.. I also know I am super lucky. I feel like I’m relatively smart, and can articulate myself well. But my biggest advantage is I’m light skinned. I know I’m inherently less “threatening”, so as long as I can convince the officer I speak like I might have a white mom, he might be cool. Like, real sh*t.

      I would never defend someone murdering officers. I could maybe sorta kinda empathize, ONLY to establish motive, but it’s still wrong AF. Like, absolutely terrible. Only issue is, the 1 guy in Dallas, or incident here or there, ill compares to what systemically happens….all the time. And there’s a reason for it. No, I don’t think all officers are KKK members, but we all know society’s stereotypes, and it’s crazy to think well meaning people don’t start to fall for them. I know white officers who have told me this. I think Mitch McConnell is the worst politician in DC (including Trumpy), but I know I can’t kill him. I can only hope Kentucky votes him out, and more people who want to see this country be a true place of equality, run for (local) office and participate in the democracy.

      I think we agree on a lot here. It really just boils down to people not being a piece of sh*t.

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      Timbuc2
      May 25, 18 at 9:22 pm #1085523
      Again I ask, what if Tom Brady kneeled (for the same issue as Kap) instead of Kap? Would he be labeled as disrepecting the flag? We all know the answer to that.

      Hell yeah he would be! This dude is not liked by many for no other reason but who he is and all his success. He has been ripped for everything from cheating, being a pretty boy and having a beautiful wife. Even his wife has been ripped by fans. Your attempt at race baiting has failed.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      I mean, I think teachers walking out is dumb too.

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      Harrybucman
      May 26, 18 at 4:20 pm #1085629
      Teachers had walk out protests in about 5 states this year. Which is more disruptive–players kneeling or teachers walking out of their classrooms. Where is the outrage?

      Did you even think this out before posting? Teachers in Florida don’t walk out because state law doesn’t allow it. It became law about 50 years ago after their last strike for low pay. Not one strike since then because their boss (lawmakers) said so. The NFL is now telling the players to stand for the anthem if they are on the field. You know what this means. They need to stand the f**k up like the Florida teachers haven’t walked out in over 50 years. Do we need to talk about which job pays more?

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Jed, not surprisingly, but you completely missed the point. Went right over your head. The point was why were people not outraged at the teachers protesting in those 5 states —not Florida. When their actions were far more disruptive than the players kneeling.
        Since you injected yourself in–can you provide an “intelligent” answer to that question?

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 2538

      “I mean, I think teachers walking out is dumb too”

      Actually, that wouldn’t be a bad idea if they all did but not for pay raises but for allowing them to actually hold their pupils accountable for their lack of effort or achievement in the classroom. You don’t get a passing grade for doing and achieving
      nothing.

      The best teachers are those that flunk their students for a lack of mastery in their discipline. Would be a huge wake up call in education.

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      Runole
      May 26, 18 at 5:07 pm #1085636
      The best teachers are those that flunk their students for a lack of mastery in their discipline. Would be a huge wake up call in education.

      Only problem is some of these kids are as dumb as a box of rocks. They would be in the 3rd grade at age 13. You also have some ignorant parents who don’t believe education is important and the teachers are to blame for the mollusks they spawn.

      • Runole

        Participant
        Post count: 2538

        Only problem is some of these kids are as dumb as a box of rocks. They would be in the 3rd grade at age 13. You also have some ignorant parents who don’t believe education is important and the teachers are to blame for the mollusks they spawn.

        Simple answer for the “Box of rocks”… They may indeed not be academically inclined so that they get a certificate of attendance and go on a track of something else that they can do well. I am belief that there are skills beyond academics that are both useful, profitable, and productive to society that those “Rocks” have abilities.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Some of the comments I read here are baffling to me how completely unaware you are of:

      A.) The inequality in this country
      B.) Your priviledge

      Disgusting and a reminder to me to vote.

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      Harrybucman
      May 26, 18 at 5:42 pm #1085642
      Jed, not surprisingly, but you completely missed the point. Went right over your head. The point was why were people not outraged at the teachers protesting in those 5 states —not Florida. When their actions were far more disruptive than the players kneeling.
      Since you injected yourself in–can you provide an “intelligent” answer to that question?

      Someone with a much far superior seventh level of intelligence such as yourself should not be coming to those of us for answers who are unable to function in your world. I will however give it a try. The teachers were on strike in a dispute over an issue directly related to them in the workplace. The only disruption would be the parents who had to find another means of care for their children during that time. Therefore you will not get the outrage of the entire country as you do when you “disrespect” a symbol of a country that many have given their lives for or made great sacrifices for. These two issues are not related.

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Jeb that’s as weak as green Kool-Aid with no sugar in it. Pretty good for you though.

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      So much faux outrage and patriotism in this thread.

      Good stuff!

    • RudeGuy

      Participant
      Post count: 2226

      Maybe the players who want to protest can walk out like the teachers did. They can stand outside the stadiums on game day with big signs. I’m sure there won’t be much outrage. Only the fans will be pissed if the good players miss the games. It would increase the odds of the Bucs winning games as most of our players don’t protest. :)

      Sound like a plan?

    • Lord Jameis Christ

      Participant
      Post count: 130

      Redrum is against teacher strikes. Color me shocked. There’s no educating someone so lost.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      Ya not a union guy sorry. Teachers are overpaid as is. What color is shocked by the by? Magenta? Leave it to you to bring color into a conversation about the anthem. Smh

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailywire.com/news/30942/jazz-legend-wynton-marsalis-says-rap-and-hip-hop-emily-zanotti%3famp

      Oh look someone being honest about the poor impact rap has had on African American culture.

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Red can you stay on point please. Read my lips this thread is about the new NFL protest policy. What in the world does rap music have to do with that issue?

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      This Thread has evolved. It’s taken on a life of its own about politics, race relations, teacher salaries, Heaven, Hell Etc. Also how am I supposed to read your lips when we are on an online forum? And did you steal that from Bush Sr.?

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Read my lips is what’s called a metaphor. But can you tell me what rap music has to do with any of the topics you say this thread has evolved into.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Teachers are overpaid as is? Holy shit…

      Satan, is that you?

    • Redrum

      Participant
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      It harkens back to when I said rap music and the TV shows they watch glorify thug life which has degraded the culture in the inner cities which in turn puts them into contact with police officers more often which leads to bad instances happening such as Mike Brown which leads to protesting and kneeling during the anthem a cherished National pastime.

      • harrybucman

        Participant
        Post count: 883

        Oh now I get it– rap music is ultimately responsible for the protests. Wow!!!!!!

        Forgive me for letting you draw me into this insanity. 10-4-over and out.

    • Redrum

      Participant
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    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      Indirectly it is yeah. Due to it poisoning the culture. Thanks for your time.

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      Harrybucman
      May 26, 18 at 9:09 pm #1085663
      Jeb that’s as weak as green Kool-Aid with no sugar in it. Pretty good for you though.

      So in other words, you are out of gas. ;)

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      Redrum
      May 26, 18 at 9:22 pm #1085665
      This Thread has evolved. It’s taken on a life of its own about politics, race relations, teacher salaries, Heaven, Hell Etc. Also how am I supposed to read your lips when we are on an online forum? And did you steal that from Bush Sr

      This is normally what happens on threads like this. Lefty will drive their hooptie all over town trying to convince you they drive a Ferrari.

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      Runole
      May 26, 18 at 11:13 pm #1085679
      Simple answer for the “Box of rocks”… They may indeed not be academically inclined so that they get a certificate of attendance and go on a track of something else that they can do well. I am belief that there are skills beyond academics that are both useful, profitable, and productive to society that those “Rock” have abilities.

      This would be nice, but most of the “rocks” are do nothing types. Also the parent (a former “rock”) will turn up at the school defending the “rock”. The teacher is picking on their poor little “rock”. The “rock” will tell the teacher they don’t have to listen to them , only their parent. Where do they get this mindset? The parent tells them so. You then end up with a “rock” who can’t be educated or directed towards a trade skill. In other words the “rock” becomes a burden to society. This is becoming more and more common.

      • Runole

        Participant
        Post count: 2538

        jed
        This would be nice, but most of the “rocks” are do nothing types. Also the parent (a former “rock”) will turn up at the school defending the “rock”. The teacher is picking on their poor little “rock”. The “rock” will tell the teacher they don’t have to listen to them , only their parent. Where do they get this mindset? The parent tells them so. You then end up with a “rock” who can’t be educated or directed towards a trade skill. In other words the “rock” becomes a burden to society. This is becoming more and more common.

        Very true. That the parents of these cretins think they are scholars that are angels in the classroom is a big problem. Perhaps Teachers need videos of these wild do nothing mongrels every day to show their stupid parents reality!

        Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Jed I work in education and you are absolutely correct in your assessment. Yes, I work in education and think teachers get paid too much. How is that for an open mind?

    • GIJoeWasThere

      Participant
      Post count: 857

      Redrum, the police have been in the black communities doing what they want LONG before any kind of rap music… You think the distrust started in 1988?

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @GIJoeWasThere I think rap music has made more black youth turn to a life of crime instead of embracing an education and a moral lifestyle therefore leading them into confrontations with police officers. There have always been bad cops. There are bad people of every ethnicity. Always have been. However, I believe the vast majority of cops don’t put on the uniform looking to abuse minorities.

    • Timbuc2

      Participant
      Post count: 601

      Jed
      May 26, 18 at 4:14 pm #1085628
      Timbuc2
      May 25, 18 at 9:22 pm #1085523
      Again I ask, what if Tom Brady kneeled (for the same issue as Kap) instead of Kap? Would he be labeled as disrepecting the flag? We all know the answer to that.

      Hell yeah he would be! This dude is not liked by many for no other reason but who he is and all his success. He has been ripped for everything from cheating, being a pretty boy and having a beautiful wife. Even his wife has been ripped by fans. Your attempt at race baiting has failed.

      Bullshit, no he wouldn’t be, not by Trump. This whole thing escalated when Trump sent out one of his tweets (while caring less about running the country) on his opinion of kneeling. Then the kneeling haters jumped right on board. That being said, if Trump said that we should help Tom out, the majority would on board.

      Because you don’t like Tom Brady doesn’t matter, it’s Trump’s opinion that matters and influences people like the majority of those that are against the players.

      I am not a racist, I have been subjected to racism, but never intended to race bait (however that is determined). I just asking a question and it’s race baiting? This is how things get out of hand. People automatically assuming whatever they want to take the attention off of the questions, issues, or statements. Just like Kap never saying (in his postgame) that he hated the military or anything like that. What’s the first thing that comes out of it? Kap hates the military and is disrespecting the flag. wow

    • Timbuc2

      Participant
      Post count: 601

      Jed
      May 26, 18 at 4:46 pm #1085632
      Harrybucman
      May 26, 18 at 4:20 pm #1085629
      Teachers had walk out protests in about 5 states this year. Which is more disruptive–players kneeling or teachers walking out of their classrooms. Where is the outrage?

      Did you even think this out before posting? Teachers in Florida don’t walk out because state law doesn’t allow it. It became law about 50 years ago after their last strike for low pay. Not one strike since then because their boss (lawmakers) said so. The NFL is now telling the players to stand for the anthem if they are on the field. You know what this means. They need to stand the f**k up like the Florida teachers haven’t walked out in over 50 years. Do we need to talk about which job pays more?

      Dude, you seem to have much frustration inside of you judging by the tone of your post. Why?

    • Timbuc2

      Participant
      Post count: 601

      Redrum
      May 27, 18 at 12:06 am #1085685


      @gijoewasthere
      I think rap music has made more black youth turn to a life of crime instead of embracing an education and a moral lifestyle therefore leading them into confrontations with police officers. There have always been bad cops. There are bad people of every ethnicity. Always have been. However, I believe the vast majority of cops don’t put on the uniform looking to abuse minorities.

      And who do you think promoted and started the rap music movement only to make tons of money? Where do you think all of the drugs come from and who controls them? Come on dude, you weren’t born yesterday and you have to know that the answer is not blacks at the very top. So those responsible for the rap music growth may be your family member.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @timbuc2 Yes it may very well be that the people at the top fund rap to try to keep black people down. I assure you it’s not my family member. Under Trump black unemployment is the lowest ever. He was never considered racist until running for office. He won the Ellis Island award. Yeah, he tweeted about the protest. So what? He’s not allowed freedom of speech? He took time away from running the country to tweet that? I remember Obama tweeting about his NCAA bracket and numerous other frivolous topics. As for where the drugs come from I’m not sure what you mean. You think white people are sending drugs into black neighborhoods? I think a lot are coming up from the border that we so poorly protect.

    • Timbuc2

      Participant
      Post count: 601

      Unfortunately we as Blacks haven’t taken back our communities and governed our own destinies. However, this would not be acceptable to many and met with resistance. You see, as long as we are entertaining, waiting on people, or just “staying in our place” there are no problems with the majority. Whatever it is that makes Blacks happy or enthusiastic, the majority hates and you can apply this to almost any situation. Oh, and don’t let us learn economic empowerment and how to put money back in our communities to build and not tear down. There would be a full blown investigation going on trying to find out how it got started. Well, this is 2018 and knowledge on all fronts is the key to success.

      Was just thinking about this and had to bring it up:

      I have been to Fire Fighter conventions where they have literally gotten drunk and wrecked the entire town and hotel rooms. Cops always plead with them to stop and sweep it under the rug (Always wondered who paid for the massive damages).

      I also know Cops that were malcontents in High School and now have guns. Also have buddies that know cops that they laugh at for being cops because of their past. This is real and I’m not making it up. Am I the only one that knows cops that really shouldn’t be cops?

      Not going to go into any more of my experiences, as I have stated some in my past posts.

    • Timbuc2

      Participant
      Post count: 601

      Redrum
      May 27, 18 at 12:52 am #1085691


      @timbuc2
      Yes it may very well be that the people at the top fund rap to try to keep black people down. I assure you it’s not my family member. Under Trump black unemployment is the lowest ever. He was never considered racist until running for office. He won the Ellis Island award. Yeah, he tweeted about the protest. So what? He’s not allowed freedom of speech? He took time away from running the country to tweet that? I remember Obama tweeting about his NCAA bracket and numerous other frivolous topics. As for where the drugs come from I’m not sure what you mean. You think white people are sending drugs into black neighborhoods? I think a lot are coming up from the border that we so poorly protect.

      Unemployment lowest ever! Bullshit fake numbers!

      Trump’s allowed freedom of speech but players aren’t? “Just shut up and play”

      Dude, the drug statements don’t even deserve my return comments. You have no clue what is or has been going on outside of your bubble! However, that’s quite alright, just stay in there.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Timbuc2 I would be ecstatic if black communities were able to put money back in and build themselves. A lot of white people voted for Obama to win and went to see Black Panther. Both of those things seemed to bring a lot of happiness to black people. I would have gladly voted for Ben Carson. Major cities with large African American demographics have been run by liberals for decades and remain stagnant. So white people are responsible for drug problems in the inner cities? Got it. Makes sense. They are to blame for everything else wrong in the world. Also, to my knowledge Trump never said “Shut up and play” and of course the numbers are fake they don’t fit the agenda.

    • Timbuc2

      Participant
      Post count: 601

      And a lot of Black people voted for Trump to win. Failed to get your point there. Elections always involve both cultures who participate in voting for both parties.

      Who was the movie Black Panther centered around? It wasn’t Blacks in this country. Google it…and how do you know it brought happiness to blacks because whites saw the movie? Dude really?

      Who cares about Ben Carson?

      I am NOT blaming all whites for any problems with anything to do with us but as far as the drugs go, it is well documented the the Mafia littered our streets with them back in the day. I am 58 years old, have worked with the majority of whites my entire life, have some of the best white friends, and that’s why I know a lot about and have been around the white culture. I do know that all whites are not the same, as not all blacks are not the same.

      The bottom line is, I blame us for having to feel that we have to listen to factions that are not looking out for our best interest, and only want to make money from us. I wish to God that this NFL would somehow fold and move out of this country. People bringing up the fact that they make too much money, they should be grateful, it’s a privilege, and all of the comments along with that. Do people ever say that about Hockey or Baseball players? No they don’t and never will but the players better stay in their place. It’s pathetic!

    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 3035

      Harry:

      In all gentleness, and without any desire to debate whatsoever, but to give me a perspective from one who has lived as a black person, I ask the following.

      In a reply to another poster you said:

      You don’t even have a clue about what the real problem is.

      I would be in your debt if you would spell out what you view as the “Real Problem.”

      Thank you.

      Remain intimately at the heart of experience.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @ Timbuc2 I was referring to your comment that anything that brings black people happiness or enthusiasm is rejected by the majority. African Americans loved seeing a black superhero in Black Panther and white people didn’t reject it. A lot if black people had the same joyful feelings about seeing the first black president which a lot of white people voted for and didn’t reject that either. In 2008 96% of black voters went for Obama. In 2012 it was 94%. Was that completely driven by an agreement with his far left policies across the board vs. opposing conservative ones? I also don’t think you can still blame the rampant inner city drug problem on the mafia from back in the day. I’m not trying to be ignorant towards you or anyone else on the board. I think these kinds of discussions are great and the only way we will make progress on these issues is to be open and honest about it. This country is far too afraid to discuss this stuff.

    • Timbuc2

      Participant
      Post count: 601

      @Redrum Black Panther did not have a black superhero. They were from Africa and not the USA. It was a good movie based on special effects and all but was not my favorite movie by any means. I can only speak for myself. On the white people not rejecting the movie, who cares whether they rejected it or not? (Besides the Box Office of course)

      See, I have a problem with your broad analysis on black people and how they feel. Actually I have that same feeling when you talk of whites. All that you should talk about is how YOU feel or how YOU see it. Unless you are hanging out with people both black or white how are you coming up with ” a lot of black people feel”, “white people didn’t reject it”, etc…

      In one of your previous post you replied to my statement and said that “you would be ecstatic if black communities were able to put money back in and build themselves.”
      It may come as a shock but, I do not care how you feel about that really. I made a statement on how I feel that we as blacks need to get to. I base this on being black myself and what I have learned about finances, different investment vehicles, how to be your own bank and pay yourself back interest, how life insurance (not the life insurance as we know it) has been the best investment of all time and how the Rothchild’s and Kennedy’s monetized it, etc…We need to learn this and prosper in this manner. I am doing my part at the moment but we are so skeptical about things as a people.

      So what I am saying is, I would like to hear things based on your own experiences or lack thereof. Not numbers that you get from FOX news, or MSNBC for that matter. Fake news doesn’t do anything for me. How whites feel doesn’t do anything for me. It’s how you feel and what you have experienced. However I do agree with you and give you 100% credit that you have not been afraid to discuss and I have to commend you for that! We should be able to agree to disagree and that’s FREEDOM OF SPEECH!

      GO BUCS! We are going to beat the Eagles! That’s the one team that I need to beat this year.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Timbuc2 Right on man. I probably do have a problem generalizing too much. It has been great talking with you and others to help get a fresh perspective on this issue. I can’t honestly say my opinions changed a lot on the topics we discussed but I think most (hopefully) all of us do want to come to a conclusion where everyone is happy and proud of our country. The goal should be equal opportunity not outcome imo. Go Bucs!

    • Timbuc2

      Participant
      Post count: 601

      @redrum It’s been a pleasure and I am always going to be the way that my Dad raised me.

      You give everyone a fair chance. No matter what color they are, you say hi to them and if they don’t say it back, don’t take offense just keep it moving on to the next.

      Do not steal, lie, or cheat.
      Open the door for everyone that you can. It doesn’t matter man or woman, young or old.
      Never hit a woman.
      Whatever you do for people, do it without expecting anything in return.
      Be accountable for your own actions, mistakes or successes.

      Redrum, I admit some of these “life rules” are tough at times. I live by them, it’s who I am, and they have served me well.
      You have just met me in a nutshell. We can talk anytime, oh about the Bucs…LOL Have a great Sunday!

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 2538

      Nice last two comments.. GO BUCS!

    • buccnation

      Participant
      Post count: 1355

      @Timbuc2 Agreed man I really hope we beat the eagles. Can’t stand them.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      The United States is the biggest threat to world peace and it’s not even close.

    • ghost

      Participant
      Post count: 1076

      Participant
      Brooks Dunn-Winston
      May 27, 18 at 8:56 am #1085719
      The United States is the biggest threat to world peace and it’s not even close.

      start your own thread in the cove if you want to continue to show yourself as an idiot

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Remember to vote. @runole and @redrum have loud, wildly uniformed opinions. Only way to truly shut them up, and people of this archaic mindset is to vote out their Nazi-in-chief.



      @redrum
      “works in education” (clearly not as an educator) and thinks teachers are overpaid and this makes him “open-minded.” As someone who wanted to be a teacher and chose to move into training/development because of teacher’s wages mixed with the cost of a master’s degree. You have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about…

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Schianoismyhero Yes, I am a physical education teacher. Maybe the cost of living is different where you live but where I am from, even at the starting pay, we make more than enough for a profession that is off 4 months a year. Trump is not a racist or Nazi lmao. Hitler was socialist and could only dream of a school system like we have in America where 90% are in a state run system with no competition and floundering subsidized inner city schools that continue to fail children. Tell me one racist thing Trump has said? I have followed him very closely and have never seen it. Everything claimed to be racist has been misquoted by the media. You like MS-13? I remember your idiotic devil’s lettuce comment on weed. Keep voting for incompetent dems who have not fixed impoverished inner cities despite being in power for decades. The added cost of getting a master’s degree (which is partly paid for by my district) more than pays off by earning 90k a year.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Ah another dipshit that think Hitler was a socialist.

      I highly doubt that you have a masters degree and that debt, and you’re satisfied with 50k a year (the average salary)to pay that back. You make 90k (doubt it, you seem to be full of shit and that’s 40k over the average salary) so that’s the equivalent of saying I’ve never been shot so gun violence isn’t a thing. Maybe we do agree that you’re overpaid… you seem pretty fucking stupid so I’d hate to have my kids learn a damn thing from you.

      Not sure what you’re referring to about weed. I fully support legalizing it and I live it a state where that is the case… voted for it, supported it, etc.

      As far as Trump’s racism – https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/15/opinion/leonhardt-trump-racist.html – even if those are half truths the dude clearly doesn’t think highly of minorities. There is a reason David Duke supports him.

      Hell, your comments in this very thread are at best ignorant, at worst hateful/racist.

      I appreciate it though because it reminds me that people like you exist and that I need to be politically active to shut down your loud, uninformed voice.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Gym teacher salary – https://www.peteacheredu.org/salaries/

      Teachers should make 60-100k depending on what they teach. That is not the case, although wages for them are rising (mostly due to market conditions and low unemployment). Once the next recession hits, state employees will have their funding cut and wages will stagnate quickly.

      But you already know all of this because you’re the highest paid gym teacher in the USA.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      You need to Google Democrat run inner cities for decades and the negative impact marijuana legalization has had where it has passed. You are wildly uninformed. Just like how you assume to know my profession and wage.
      Hitler was a self showed socialist. A New York Times link? LOL Give me a racist comment I’m not clicking on that trash. I’ve heard them all and he’s not racist. I’m sure a lot of bad people support Obama and Hillary too. So what? Then you say at best I’m ignorant at worst racist. You libs are so quick to call people racist. Keep doing it. That’s why you will lose again in 2020. “I’m the highest paid gym teacher in the USA” lol once again the know it all speculates on my income. Another thing you libs always fail to grasp is you get paid what the market dictates. Every time there is a vacant teaching spot in my district there are thousands of applicants to sort through. When you have more than enough supply to meet demand you are going to raise the cost (salary)?

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      Just like how you assume to know my profession and wage.

      Well, you kinda helped him.

      You know, by mentioning what you did for a living and how much you made.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      I never mentioned specifically what I earn. I know teachers who earn 90k. Never said I was there yet. Also, only specified job title once he felt compelled to question what my role in education is.

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6447

      I was wondering why this thread was 14+ pages, so I decided to open it only to find out the race-baiters decided to show up and make the same old arguments. You girls have fun.

      Schianoismyhero
      May 27, 18 at 12:38 pm #1085754
      Ah another dipshit that think Hitler was a socialist.

      Why do liberals/progressives like yourself always attempt to rewrite history?

      That’s rhetorical. I know the answer.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      I suppose Shiano thinks Mao, Lenin, and Stalin weren’t socialist either. Socialism is just the dressed up nice way to say communist by the way. You see, the countless number of deaths caused by this failed ideology made them change the lingo.

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      There’s a few posters on here, who need to show us on the doll, where Kaep touched them.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Hitler was not a socialist. He hated socialism. He was a fascist.

      Mao was a communist, dictator.

      Castro also was a communist dictator.

      Hilarious that you’re accusing me of rewriting history when in the same breath you’re dumb enough to believe that Hitler was a socialist. I could post links but what’s the use… you’ve buried your head in the sand.



      @redrum
      you literally told me your profession and what you made. None of that matters because you’re dumb enough to believe that teachers are overpaid. You can try and talk down to me all you like about the rules of capitalism but I work in sales and the financial services industry. I plenty well versed in the ways of compensation and value.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      I never said what I made. Hitler has a direct quote saying he’s socialist.

      https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/myth-busted-actually-yes-hitler-was-a-socialist-liberal/

      Communism and socialism are essentially the same thing. Keep calling people dumb and racist. It has served your party well.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      Political parties are for sheep-ple who cling to an ideology because they have no ideas of their own.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Yeah a wordpress article doesn’t change the fact that Hitler was a fascist that hated socialism.

      I love that you scoff at the NYT then post a fucking wordpress article. Reaffirming your idiocy.

      “Communsim and socialism are essentially the same thing.” In the world of the internet where you can quickly discover the difference in the two it SHOCKS me that you’re too lazy to look it up. One is a form of economics and one is a form of governemt. There, I gave you a head start. Now look up democratic socialism and blow your mind!

      Are you sure you teach anything at all? I’m starting to think you’re a janitor at a school… and not the cool kind look Will Hunting.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      A direct quote doesn’t mean anything. You’re right. Find me a direct quote of Trump saying he’s racist. More speculation on my job. Only a compassionate liberal would disparage any job. It’s better to sit at home and collect entitlements. Read that article and blow your mind. It discusses democratic socialism.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      Not only did Hitler make clear he wanted to eradicate the Bolsheviks and any elements of communism on the planet, every type of leftie on earth, from the Soviets to the British Labour Party to George Orwell, saw the Nazis as bad news.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      By the way Shiano I only owed 16 thousand when my master’s degree was finished. I was fortunate to be able to pay off my bachelor’s before moving out on my own. So yeah I’m pretty happy with my current salary, benefits and future prospects vs. what I spent to acquire it. Thank you for taking such an interest in my personal life. Did you know that studies have shown teachers with a master’s on average don’t get anything more out of students than teachers without? But they still get paid a lot more because it’s a socialist model of not being paid based on results. Also, are you able to make a post without calling someone a name and/or cursing. You are very much a liberal.

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6447

      Redrum
      May 27, 18 at 2:31 pm #1085773
      Hitler has a direct quote saying he’s socialist.

      Schianoismyhero has been pwned by Hitler himself.

      That’s the problem when you try to rewrite history.

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      @REDRUM

      I like this Redrum dude. I have not read enough of his post to say I agree with his politics. But at least he presents himself in a respectful manner, without the name calling. Please post more often Sir.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @The Anti-Java Thanks man. I sincerelly try to make this community better and not be condescending to people. Some make it harder than others.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      No matter how you twist it, both of you are stupid enough to believe that Hitler was a socialist. There is no grey area here.

      The Nazi party was a nationalist movement with socially conservative rhetoric, and a fascist governing structure.

      https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/ – here is what Snopes has to say about it.

      To be honest tho, this conversation is pointless. You can’t fix stupid.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      And to be clear, I’m using the term stupid literally. No different than I’d treat someone who says the earth is flat or the moon landing is fake the same way.

      I’m pointing out stupidity. But if that triggers you, so be it.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Schiano I’m not nor was I ever triggered. I wasn’t the one calling everyone dumb who disagrees with me. Nazi is literally an abbreviation for der NationalsozialistischeDeutsche Arbeiters Partei — in English translation: the National Socialist German Workers’ Party.

      https://mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      And that is precisely WHY you are stupid. You need to read a history book. I’m fully aware of how the Nazis used the socialist moniker to attract support.

      Do you think the Patriot Act is patriotic? Do you think Citzens United unites citizens? Do the Republicans support the Republic and the Democrats support Democracy?

      Falling victim to a title… eesh.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      You need to read that article. It’s not a moniker it’s what they were. I’ve read plenty of history books. In the face of all evidence just keep denying. The article proves my point. You won’t read it however because you are too busy calling people stupid and using caps lock. I don’t have time to rewrite all the points it drives home to you so it is what it is.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      But it literally is not. It isn’t a debate. They were a nationalist party first and foremost. Country first. No outsiders. No minorities. The elite race.

      Fascism and Communism are two sides of the same coin that evolve into a dictatorship with censorship, limited rights etc. Fascism is extreme Conservitism while Communism is extreme liberalism. That’s why it’s easy to confuse the two.

      Hitler and the Nazi party are fascists. Its extreme Conservatism. Mao and the Communist was extreme liberalism. Both evolved into a dictatorship but the path was different.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      Socialism, according to self avowed socialists, is the road to communism. They have to become more authoritarian when their central planning fails, as it inevitably always does, and people start to turn on them. I think I’m done wasting my time with someone who continually calls everyone stupid and denies that Nazis were socialists despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Enjoy always being “right”.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      400 years ago you’d be arguing the earth is the center of the universe. This isn’t a debate. You’re just wrong.

    • Havok904

      Participant
      Post count: 13021

      DonkeyHunter
      May 27, 18 at 2:11 pm #1085768
      There’s a few posters on here, who need to show us on the doll, where Kaep touched them.
      ——
      LoL

    • Havok904

      Participant
      Post count: 13021

      Hitler wasn’t a Socialist

      Hitler hated socialism and communism and worked to destroy these ideologies. Nazism, confused as it was, was based on race, and fundamentally different from class focused socialism.

      https://www.thoughtco.com/was-adolf-hitler-a-socialist-1221367

    • Havok904

      Participant
      Post count: 13021

      Redrum
      May 27, 18 at 1:45 pm #1085766
      I suppose Shiano thinks Mao, Lenin, and Stalin weren’t socialist either. Socialism is just the dressed up nice way to say communist by the way. You see, the countless number of deaths caused by this failed ideology made them change the lingo.
      ——
      Wrong

      Communism is a political system.

      Socialism is an economic system.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Havoc904 They are essentially the same thing. Both involve central planners redistributing wealth and assume the authorities have all knowing planning abilities that humans are not capable of possessing. Socialism is almost always nationalist and militarist and when the central planners mess up or run out of other people’s money they go all out dictator if they haven’t already. They are both ideologies of failure.

    • Havok904

      Participant
      Post count: 13021

      Redrum
      May 27, 18 at 10:03 pm #1085833
      @Havoc904 They are essentially the same thing.
      —–
      No they’re not.

      Are you saying Sweden is the same as North Korea, China, and Russia?

      In Socialist countries, the leaders are elected.

      In Communist countries, the leaders are selected and it’s ruled by one political party. Alternate parties do not exist.

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6447

      The Anti-Java
      May 27, 18 at 5:15 pm #1085800


      @redrum

      I like this Redrum dude. I have not read enough of his post to say I agree with his politics. But at least he presents himself in a respectful manner, without the name calling. Please post more often Sir.

      Agreed. He’s crushing dudes with facts.

    • Havok904

      Participant
      Post count: 13021

      Agreed. He’s crushing dudes with facts
      —–
      LoL

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Seriously… Biggs I usually love your posts so I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and say you’re being facetious. Otherwise… my God

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Havoc904 No of course they aren’t the same. I would have to write an essay to explain to you why there are differences between China, North Korea, and Sweden. Culture and demographics are the short answer and Sweden isn’t the paradise lefties like to act like it is. The question of form is not negligible and life in North Korea is definitely different than life in 1970s socialist England but we are talking about variation within a species, not variation between species. The bottom line is anything the government can do the private sector can do better with the exception of public goods that aren’t easily profit driven like national defense and law enforcement. It always amazes me that people think socialism is better than capitalism and that it doesn’t lead to total government control eventually.

      “A government can’t control the economy without controlling people. And (America’s Founding Father’s) knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose.”

      Ronald Reagan

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Still doesn’t change the fact that you think Hitler was a socialist and you’re 100% wrong.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      Hitler thought he was a socialist as well I guess he was a hundred percent wrong. He must be like the people who believed that they were born a different race than what their body tells them or different gender than what their body tells them.

      Hitler was a socialist nationalist and many of the programs he advocated are the same ideas we hear from the Bernie Sanders of the world:

      https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/hitler-and-the-socialist-dream-1186455.html%3Famp&ved=0ahUKEwjz7tDuuafbAhVQzlMKHZ_ADrcQFgghMAE&usg=AOvVaw1I6Xa98aM8IzxhskJ7gUrK&ampcf=1

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Lol… you’re done kid. Just step aside and admit you’re wrong.

    • Redrum

      Participant
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      I’m done by providing yet more of his own words and actions showing he’s socialist? Your arrogance is incredible. At this point I think if the ghost of Hitler stood before you and said I was socialist you would still be like..nah.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Yet STILL, you’re just wrong.

    • tmac87

      Participant
      Post count: 42

      Why is it outrageous to think, and try to stay with me here… a man who killed 6M+ people, could also lie about his motives, and disguise it as socialism…. or just about anything else he felt would get him elected? You know, kinda like promising to drain a swamp… The man wasn’t going to get elected by saying “Hey ya’ll…we gotta get rid of these Jews…also, is it cool if I try and take over the world?” Smh

    • tmac87

      Participant
      Post count: 42

      BTW, to my “conservative” bretheren, hurling liberal “insults”. My favorite quote from the West Wing awaits:

      “It’s true, Republicans have tried to turn ‘liberal’ into a bad word. Well, liberals ended slavery in this country. A liberal Republican ended slavery. What happened to them? They got run out of the party. What did liberals do that was so offensive to the Republican party? I’ll tell you what they did. Liberals got women the right to vote. Liberals got African-Americans the right to vote. Liberals created social security and lifted millions of elderly people out of poverty. Liberals ended segregation. Liberals passed the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, Liberals created Medicare. Liberals passed the Clean Air Act, and the Clean Water Act. What did Conservatives do? They opposed every one of those programs. Every one. So when you try to hurl the word ‘liberal’ at my feet, as if it were dirty, something to run away from, something that I should be ashamed of, it won’t work, because I will pick up that label and wear it as a badge of honor.” Matt Santos, out.

      Stupid Liberals

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      Trust me when I say that Hitler was no socialist.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      @TMAC

      I don’t consider myself a liberal, but objectively speaking, liberals have done more for the American people than conservatives. Teddy Roosevelt was a liberal Republican who tried to make capitalism, a flawed system, work for everyone. He busted up the monopolies (some, not all) and helped strengthen the unions. He actually cared about the working man, unlike Ronald Reagan, one of the most disastrous presidents we’ve ever had.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      Reagan was a silly little man. I’ll never forget when he was talking about school lunches and he insisted that “ketchup is a vegetable.” Also, when he claimed that trees create more pollution than automobiles — he wasn’t the brightest bulb.

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6447

      @schiano As convincing an argument as “I’m right and you’re wrong” is, I’m surprised that hasn’t turned out better for you.

      Redrum
      May 27, 18 at 2:31 pm #1085773
      I never said what I made. Hitler has a direct quote saying he’s socialist.

      https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/myth-busted-actually-yes-hitler-was-a-socialist-liberal/

      This is an excellent article laying out the factual policies of the socialist leader. It’s no surprise that the history-rewriting progressive/liberals are ignoring it. I’ll give the cliff notes for those that don’t like educating themselves:

      * Nationalized Healthcare
      * Employment for All
      * Blaming the One Percent Jews
      * Gun Control
      * Big Education
      * Abortion
      * The Police State

      These aren’t opinions, these are facts. Do those policy’s sound like Rand Paul or Bernie Sanders? Eighty years from now, liberals/progressives will telling the world Nicolas Maduro wasn’t a socialist.

      You ladies have a nice day, as this will be my last post in this dumpster fire of a thread. I’ll be honoring those that died defeating Hitler’s socialist government.

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      Going back to the original topic…

      The most sensible solution is to simply go back to the days where the government wasn’t shoving a marketing ploy down everyone’s throats, designed to sell cheap manufactured nationalism.

      Play the anthem. Bring the players on the field afterwards. Beat the shit out of the NFC South.

    • GottaJaboo

      Blocked
      Post count: 5942

      @DonkeyHunter – 100 percent.

      GoldsonAges on 2nd round pick, Safety, Justin Evans, out of Texas A&M – “coaching can’t fix this”.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      @donkeyhunter

      I couldn’t agree more.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Ah the era of fake news. WW2 history is now fake news. Liberals just making shit up whenever it’s convenient for you. Keep living in that cocoon of yours.



      @donkeyhunter
      – both political ideologies only want “small government” when it fits their narrative. In this case, captain crybaby who get triggered by a handful of football players in too thin skinned to let them peacefully protest. The era of fake news. The era of fake outrage. The era of xenophobia.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      Some of you people seriously need to read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Medicare, Social Security, Healthcare, Medicaid, Planned Parenthood, Welfare, and on and on are not things the Federal Government was ever supposed to take on. You don’t have to take Hitler at his words that he was socialist (although he said it plenty) look at all his central planning programs. Bernie promises the same type of stuff. And yes, modern day republicans (for the most part) are almost as bad. There are very few constitutionalist politicians, or it would seem, citizens left. The government was never intended yo be your caretaker.

      • BucfanNC12

        Participant
        Post count: 639

        @Redrum. I hear the constitution argument a lot and people fail the realize the nation was completely different when it was written. Also, the notion of the Federal government over stepping their boundaries in social programs is usually false. Don’t forget after the Louisiana Purchase the Federal government was giving away land for people to settle in. Also, the Federal government was a big player in the game when colleges and universities were established in this country. In today’s terms, people would argue that’s socialism. The whole socialism notion is another talking point kool-aid providers give to people. Anyone who checked out a library book, attended any type of public education, driven on roads in areas they didn’t pay taxes in etc all benefited from some form of socialism. The biggest benefactors of it are the entities who can identify themselves as a person (hint hint).

    • BucfanNC12

      Participant
      Post count: 639

      When I see threads like this I get tired of hearing the liberal vs. conservative nonsense. I am starting to think (overall as a nation) people are lacking critical thinking skills. This whole liberal vs. conservation rational is business where people are making money speaking at colleges, writing books, news appearances, etc. Yet the same people “never” offer solutions to issues. Because if they get fixed, they’ll either be out of a job or find something else to complain about. I find it amazing people still do not talk about the initial issue why Kap took a knee. Practically every month in 2016 a new video was coming out about police shoots. Yet, except talking about that, people continued being puppets to talking points except addressing the original topic. I find it interesting and disturbing people get emotional about a player kneeling and say nothing about recent war veterans still waiting four four months to see a doctor. As a former Marine (no combat experience) there are things I like and don’t like about the military. However, I don’t believe in notion that one must support the military to be a patriot.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Tmac87 Abraham Lincoln was in a sense a liberal Republican in that he wanted to unconstitutionaly violate states rights and expand the power of the Fed over them. He could not have cared less about what happened to the black people as evidenced by his quotes. He was a racist. Also, this idea that republicans wanted to hold down people while democrats were their champions has me questioning why Martin Luther King was a republican? His neice has said he was a Republican multiple times.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      @bucfannc12 – good post dude and fair points… but for me this boils down to a large group of people that choose to ignore facts, ignore data, ignore science, ignore experience, ignore history and simply say “I think ___ happened.”

      We all have our opinions but when those opinions encroach on FACTS then nothing is safe. Do I need to give people a say that believe the moon is hologram or that Hillary is a reptile alien?

      No

      There are a plethora of loud, uniformed opinions on a variety of subjects from the intent of taking a knee (this is not an opinion) to Hitler being a right-wing fascist (also not an opinion) and everywhere in between.

      The era of fake fucking news.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      https://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Fascism fascism vs communism

      There, now you have no excuse in understanding their key differences and why Hitler was a fascist, not a socialist.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @bucfannc12 Thank you for your service. Yes, our politicians have been breaking away from certain parts of the constitution ever since Washington and the whiskey rebellion. Some have been more blatant and (I would argue) detrimental than others. There are very specific powers given to the Fed and all others are supposed to fall to the states. If certain states populations want to vote for more liberal policies where they reside that’s their perogative as long as it doesn’t violate the rights provided by the ones that fall under the Fed’s jurisdiction. However, we are to the point where people think the Fed is supposed to be all powerful and provide cradle to the grave benefits. That is nothing like what the founders had in mind.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @schiano When I look at that chart I see more similarities than differences. These aren’t apples and oranges. If you want to say there are vast differences that’s your perogative but they are all basically centralized planning forms of rule. It’s all semantics because socialists don’t want to associate themselves with Hitler. They just want to help people right?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      “Fascism and Communism are two sides of the same coin that evolve into a dictatorship with censorship, limited rights etc. Fascism is extreme Conservitism while Communism is extreme liberalism. That’s why it’s easy to confuse the two.

      Hitler and the Nazi party are fascists. Its extreme Conservatism. Mao and the Communist was extreme liberalism. Both evolved into a dictatorship but the path was different.”

      I literally said this to you two pages back.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      Socialism is a stepping stone to communism and apparently fascism based on that chart because they are very alike.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Socialism is a form of ECONOMICS and can exist within capitalism. Communism is a form of governemt. Sure, socialism can lead to communism just as nationalism can lead to fascism.

      Socialism doesn’t really exist anywhere in a true form. It typically evolves or exists within capitalism or communism. We practice many forms of democratic socialism – a balance. China also practices a balance of capitalism and socialism but closer to communism with centralized power, censorship etc. I lived in China. It isn’t pure communism they are very much a form a capitalism.

      But I digress… in the end you need to educate yourself about these subjects or you will continue to be ridiculed.

      Edit: to be clear China is very close to Communism and under Mao it certainly was but in it’s current state it still has communism embedded in its culture but has moved toward capitalism to compete in the global market.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Schiano You’re always right. Everyone else is wrong. You’re a big, powerful, rich man. Feel better?

      Communism isn’t a form of government either I guess: http://www.just-say-why.com/blog/2012/05/06/types-of-governments-versus-types-of-economies/

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Lol, but it is and it isn’t debatable. Just because you find a website or blog that says it, doesn’t make it true.

      Communism means the government controls all means of production so that inherently creates a socialistic economy.

      I don’t know how many times I’m going prove you wrong before you just admit you’re wrong but keep at it bucko.

      And I’m not “always right.” Something are a matter of opinion and worth a debate while others are simply the FACTS

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      I’m curious if you even read your article(blog) or just the first paragraph because some of it is true. The title is all wrong but as whole it does a decent job outlining fascism, socialism, and how they can entwine with capitalism. In the end, it tries to create semantics out of the words and the argument is pretty weak.

      Having said that, rarely is anything black and white. Fascist Germany was different than Japan or Italy. Communist Russia was different than China, NK, or Cambodia.

      That’s why I said and I’ll say it again, they are two halves of the same coin. Both create ultimate authority but through a different channel(s).

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      Just like when Hitler says something it doesn’t make it true either. He was lying. It was part of a big conspiracy to convince people he was socialist. Something isn’t true unless Schiano approves it as being such first. Yeah I read the whole article I don’t agree with the whole article. You have yet to prove me wrong except in your own head and some other misinformed people’s opinion on here. When Hitler says he is something and governs like he is that thing it is true.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21932

      Not sure why this discussion is happening here but communism isn’t a “form of government” (ie monarchy, democracy oligarchy) its a political philosophy, as is socialism. People use the terms communist and socialist as shorthand to describe a government by its predominant theory or view but the form of the government can vary.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2134

      As much as I enjoy watching random football fans argue semantics on forms of government can we get back to the ‘topic’ at hand. LOL…

      prediction time… how many teams will get fined this season for kneeling players?

      I set the over/under at 7.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      I’m just gonna drop this. Go take a history class… no historian believes Hitler was a socialist.

      Backing to that damn kneeling. What’s up with that? Shit be crazy.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Schiano here is yet another article that you could learn from. Hitler was a central planning far left socialist. Whether or not that fits your agenda is irrelevant.

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/billflax/2011/09/01/obama-hitler-and-exploding-the-biggest-lie-in-history/amp/

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      @redrum

      Let’s say Hitler WAS socialist, what’s you’re point?! That Americans with liberal ideas are dangerous because Hitler killed 6 million Jews??

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      The point was he called Trump the Nazi in Chief. I then said Hitler was socialist and the policies they governed by are polar opposites. I mean I guess if you want to say protecting the border from illegal immigration is racist and Hitler was racist that’s about as far as the parallels go. Then the further point is that liberals want to centralize power and let the Federal Government control things they have no authority under the constitution to control. They fail to see throughout history what happens when power is centralized. There have been more deaths caused by big government than from all the major wars in modern history combined.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      Pick a government, any government, and it’s got blood on its hands. I don’t even care what its economic, political, or social philosophies are. And the bigger and more powerful the government the more blood. China, USSR and the USA are all guilty of crimes against humanity. All three countries control their populace, albeit in different ways.

      We the people have much more in common than we want to admit. It’s government (socialist, fascist, communist, capitalist, representative democracy, monarchy, religious theocracy, whatever) that’s the problem.

      And no I don’t think Trump is a fascist. I doubt he even knows what one is. I think he’s xenophobic and probably believes that whites are the superior race, but when it comes down to it Trump only cares about himself, his family and his brand.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      People always say Trump is stupid. If the bar for stupid is being a billionaire who is the leader of the most powerful country on Earth then hardly anyone passes that test. America has a lot less blood on it’s hands than Communist countries.

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 2538

      It would appear that Brooks Dunn -Winston has a real hatred for America in his attempt to compare Russia’s communist and Germany’s fascist past. Outrageous… JMO but his malady of TDS is strong. I doubt seriously any of those in his message board name would approve of such radical rantings associated with them.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Your ignorance is overwhelming. Did Hitler do away with private enterprise? No? Then he wasn’t communist. Did Hitler want to control production and evenly distribute it to all of Germany? No? Then he wasn’t socialist.

      Did Hitler use the conquest of war and glory to promote the state? Yes? Then he was fascist. Did Hitler close borders, and seek to purify his nation? Yes? Then he was a nationalist.

      Is the Democratic Republic of China a Democracy or a Republic? No, it isn’t.

      At some point you’ll look at the actions and values, and stop looking at titles and misnomers.

      How bout that knee thing tho? Crazy stuff. NFL went political with it so it will be interesting to see the right wingers come back and stand proud for their flag while the left wingers decide if that stance is enough to warrant a viewing/paying boycott. I certainly will cancel my Sunday ticket. I already don’t buy Bucs gear because of the Glazers support of Trump (that and I have plenty of gear.) I’ll probably pirate it or just watch it at the bar. NFL can stand tall with their political stance.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      @redrum

      Whereas the Soviets and Chinese have certainly killed more of their own citizenry than we have, we’ve killed far more foreign citizens than perhaps all other countries combined.



      @runole

      I love the people of America. They work hard, dream big, and most have unusually big hearts. I don’t hate America; I just hate our government.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      I don’t stand for the anthem. Patriotism is for brainless sheep.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21932

      So, American schools are clearly struggling with history.

      Good lord.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      If you read @runole in the cove you’ll realize he is:

      A.) A huge conspiracy theorist. I’m talking moon landing, global warming, sandy hook stuff.

      B.) He hates a lot of people. Call that what you will… racist, crotchety, xenophobic… he fits the bill.

      C.) He gets most of his news from YouTube and blogs and lives in a bubble wrapped world.

      He’s quite the character.

    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Schianoismyhero
      May 28, 18 at 4:48 pm
      I’m just gonna drop this. Go take a history class…
      =================

      Two pages ago, way to keep your word.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Schiano if you read some if the articles I’ve posted you would see that he did in fact do the things you say he didn’t and I thought you were done? Your overconfidence is your weakness.

      Nazi Germany progressively dominated her economy. Although many businesses were nominally private, the state determined what was produced in what quantities and at what prices. First, they unleashed massive inflation to finance their prolific spending on public works, welfare and military rearmament. They then enforced price and wage controls to mask currency debasement’s harmful impact. This spawned shortages as it must, so Berlin imposed rationing. When that failed, Albert Speer assumed complete power over production schedules, distribution channels and allowable profits.

      And I’ve listed numerous sources that show his Socialist policies but you don’t want to read about them so…

      @Brooks Dunn-Winston I don’t know what wars you believe were unjust but I personally think by and large America has been a force for good on the global scale.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      @the anti-java it’s not like I’m writing this solo for two pages…

      Let’s switch it back. I’ll own it, my bad.

      Knees… I hear bees have the best. Can anyone confirm?

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      @redrum

      You really want to go there?

      How about the US overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy in 1893
      … the US overthrow of the democratically elected Mossadegh in Iran in 1953
      … the US overthrow of the democratically elected Arbenz in Guatemala in 1954
      … the US overthrow of the democratically elected Lumumba in Congo in 1960
      … the US overthrow of Trujillo in the Dominican Republic in 1961
      … the US overthrow of the democratically elected Ngo Dinh Diem in South Vietnam in 1963
      … the US overthrow of the democratically elected Joao Goulart in Brazil in 1964
      … the US overthrow of the democratically elected Allende in Chile in 1973
      … not to mention what we’ve recently done to Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi and what we’re trying to do to Assad

      How about our illegal, unnecessary, and utterly futile war in Korea

      How about our illegal, unnecessary, and utterly futile war in Vietnam, and even worse, in Cambodia

      How about funding illegal wars all throughout Central America (and selling arms to our enemies to do it)

      How about dropping 2 atom bombs on Japan killing over 180,000 citizens

      How about Obama’s drone wars in Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya, and Iraq

      How about FUNDING the biggest genocide in recent times: the slaughter of the Yeminis

      How about the COUNTLESS innocent people that have died as a result of our economic policies and our use of sanctions.

      I’m just warming up here …

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      I’m sure you are Brooks-Dunn Winston but I don’t have time, energy, or motivation to discuss why we were or were not justified in those actions. Thank you for listing your grievances with America though. It must pain you to live in such a despicable nation. When are you moving?

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      @redrum

      Very predictable. You have time to spew all that you believe is true, but when someone comes at you with REAL American historical facts you all of a sudden don’t have time. Look this shit up. It really happened.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      I’m not saying it didn’t happen. What I’m disputing is whether we were wrong in every scenario you offered. No, I’m not going to write a 200 page essay to answer why you are incorrect on your bullet point presentation.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      In almost every scenario we removed people who were in our way. America has a very specific foreign policy agenda, which, put simply, revolves around American supremacy. It’s all about Empire and for the past 120 years we’ve been building one.

      Read American history. It’s very interesting.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      How bout that Kaep tho? Dude definitely did some stuff…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21932

      “I’m just warming up here …”

      comforting.

      shouldn’t this be in the Cove?

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      I wonder why Kaep can’t get a job. Hm. He must not be good anymore.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      @crownlessking

      I just joined the conversation. I think redrum and shiano were in the middle of a lovely chat when I joined in.

      But you know, it all ties in. The NFL pulls a political stunt because morons are waving their little flags and then some folks on the RB start chatting about government and government overreach. Why put it in the cove?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21932

      so what?

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      Kaep never was good. He checks out his first read and if it’s not there he’s looking to run.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      Good night to all. Happy Memorial Day.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      I agree it all does tie together… and I agree, @redrum and I were discussing middle school social studies. He’s having an identity crisis because he thought he knew it all.

      In the end, the faux Patriots got triggered and the NFL pandered to the lowest common denominator. I hope players continue to protest peacefully but I understand that you gotta play ball.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      redrum only knows what he wants to know. That’s a deadly trap to fall into. We need to ask the hard questions but few of us ever do.

    • PassThePigSkin

      Participant
      Post count: 438

      Kap is a lot better than most backups right now. Can’t use his talent against him with guys that have no career starts or just plain suck. Reid can still play he’s proof the league went against them. Bengals owner pretty much sealed the deal.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Oh yeah, it’s a blacklist. No two ways around it.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Schiano I know you’re still at a middle school level. No matter how many times you’re proven wrong you can’t accept it. By the way, weren’t you done? Isn’t there a hilarious bee’s knees joke you could be making to someone?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Triggered

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Schiano You’re not clever enough to trigger me Mr. Bee’s Knees comedy gold.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Clearly… just like clearly you’re a 90k a year gym teacher.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      I never said I was at 90k lol. Once again, thank you for the interest in my personal life. Man you have a difficult time comprehending things. You constantly call people stupid and then say you trigger them? Lol. Project much?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      😂😂😂 so triggered

      🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      If that makes you feel better Schiano. Six emojis and I’m the one at a middle school level lmao

    • Jed

      Participant
      Post count: 1135

      PassThePigSkin
      May 28, 18 at 9:58 pm #1086009
      Kap is a lot better than most backups right now. Can’t use his talent against him with guys that have no career starts or just plain suck. Reid can still play he’s proof the league went against them. Bengals owner pretty much sealed the deal.

      I think if I owned a company and had a chance to hire someone who was going to piss off my customers, I might pass on him as well. Just saying.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21932

      Of course you would. Common sense.

      If the employee is a part-timer who doesn’t really fit with your company, all the more likely to not hire

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 2538

      If you read @runole in the cove you’ll realize he is:

      A.) A huge conspiracy theorist. I’m talking moon landing, global warming, sandy hook stuff.

      B.) He hates a lot of people. Call that what you will… racist, crotchety, xenophobic… he fits the bill.

      C.) He gets most of his news from YouTube and blogs and lives in a bubble wrapped world.

      He’s quite the character.

      Fake characterization from a left wing idiot not the least bit surprising.

      What caused this “I live Rent free in his head” rant by Schiano?

      I believe that thinking you will go to Hell for eating a pork chop is ignorant and stupid, and if you do as well you fit the label as well.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Runole you can’t expect much from a guy whose arguments boil down to you’re dumb, I’m right, and triggered lol. Despite ample evidence of why Hitler was a socialist he still fails to grasp it. He has been shown Hitler’s own words, policies, and actions that define him as a socialist and nothing penetrates that skull. He also, bizarrely, always tries to take personal shots at people he has never met. Hitler’s fanciful projects for the German economy were, if anything, more grandiosely socialist than were Lenin’s aspirations. Sadly, Shiano will never understand why big government isn’t the answer.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21932

      “I believe that thinking you will go to Hell for eating a pork chop is ignorant and stupid, and if you do as well you fit the label as well.”

      yeah, that’s all it is . . .

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      @runole – case and point. Pork chops and hell. Sure thing old timer.



      @redrum
      – are you a flat earther too?

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      @redrum, I thought you dropped out of school. It’s good to have you back.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      @Brooks Dunn-Winston I guess you thought wrong. Judging by your long list of grievances with America and refusal to stand during the anthem it seems to be a habit. When are you leaving this horrible country by the way?

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      Actually, I’m going on a river trip through Eastern Europe this summer, then to Denmark in Oct.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      Don’t hurry back

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Well you live in a country that practices socialism so maybe you outta leave since you hate it so much?

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      Exactly redrum. Why are you pledging your allegiance to a socialist flag?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      He’s furiously looking up what “socialism” means… he just heard it’s bad, that’s all.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      America is still the least socialist. Granted, it’s not perfect thanks to some socialist programs (that are failing by the way). Obamacare and Social Security are turning out really swell. I still love this country and I’m grateful to be here unlike you two.

      Lol @ Schiano the only time that guy is not funny is when he’s trying to tell a joke.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      LOL!

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      Open a book redrum, it’s school time.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      Nah, I don’t care for Ward Churchill books.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      You’re terrified that the American Exceptionalism bubble in which you live is going to burst. Why? A true patriot, like myself, asks the hard questions, swallows the painful truth, and challenges the status quo. I’m not a Democrat or a Republican, I’m an individual.

    • Redrum

      Participant
      Post count: 325

      America is exceptional. Sorry if that bursts your bubble.

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      America is a wonderful country, the land of opportunity, absolutely, no doubt. BUT our foreign policy has been an absolute disgrace. Seriously, if you doubt me, just read a bit about what we’ve done, where, and why.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      I’m grateful for all sorts of things. The freedom to speak my mind and challenge the status quo being one them. If everyone thought like you do @redrum we’d be living in a theocracy. The world would be viewed as 5000 years old and flat and the center of the universe.

      I know it’s scary that black folks are speaking their minds but you’ll get used to it. I hope…

    • Brooks Dunn-Winston

      Participant
      Post count: 565

      Yeah, black folks should be heard too, redrum.

    • freddy

      Participant
      Post count: 956

      Pro or con doesn’t matter. My question right now is, of all the players that would like to protest during the anthem, how many of them did any form of protest during their off season time? Either you believe in it all the time or you’re just a grandstanding hypocrite.

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 2538

      So Schiano and Crownlesss believe it is logical and reasonable that eating a pork chop will send you to Hell? Thank you for proving my point! LOL

      Redrum,

      You of course are correct about Hitler… Sadly, both Crownless and Schiano have severe cases of TDS and RDS. Both apparently believe in BIG GOVMENT taking care of them which is just as stupid as the pork thing.. They remain full blown triggered like most extreme lefties. Not surprising they voted for HRC which of course shows you what their standards are for ethics and honesty.

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 2538

      Good point Freddy

    • GottaJaboo

      Blocked
      Post count: 5942

      Goes both ways. So much phony outrage regarding kneeling, do these same people pause from making their white bread, bologna and mustard sandwich while the anthem is being played.

      I’ll say it again. There isn’t one person on the planet that is truly outraged by someone kneeling for the national anthem. Your a liar’s liar, caught in some social contagion vacuum, grasping at anything to identify with, as you go down the american shitter.

      GoldsonAges on 2nd round pick, Safety, Justin Evans, out of Texas A&M – “coaching can’t fix this”.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Runole is making fun of the customs and traditions of other religions while failing to realize they all have them. Like most xenophobes he’s scared of both what is different and what he doesn’t understand.

      Every religion and/or culture has something silly or “different” they do. I was just at a Jewish wedding and the bride circles 7 times and they smash a glass and all this other weird stuff. It’s odd to me but normal to them. From Mormons to Christians, you all do something strange.

      But yeah, it’s the pork chops that has @runole feeling supreme. Nothing to do with region, culture, skin color, etc…

      Now those damn dark skinned players and making a ruckus during the national anthem. Trump threw a tempertantrum in the name of nationalistic pride, and his followers blindly follow him on his path of righteousness.

      Patriotism =/= Nationalism (see Hitler)

    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13935

      May 30, 18 at 9:18 am #1086228
      So Schiano and Crownlesss believe it is logical and reasonable that eating a pork chop will send you to Hell? Thank you for proving my point! LOL

      No more ridiculous than believing some guy could walk on water, turn water into wine, and raise the dead. Or that you can be a shitty person your entire life, but if you open your heart to some make believe person, you’ll go to heaven.

      But, by all means, don’t let us stop you from walking around proving your xenophobia and bigotry.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21932

      “So Schiano and Crownlesss believe it is logical and reasonable that eating a pork chop will send you to Hell”

      Runole’s world doesn’t make sense to him without someone blame for his sad lot in life. Many religions subscribe to DEVOTIONAL practices (i.e., ways that they express their faith). Catholics who eat fish during Lent? Orthodox Jews with the exact same view of pork? Hindus who do not eat beef?

      Runole is uncomfortable with anyone other than his white cracker friends. Its just that hes not brave enough to express his bigotry other than through an anonymous message board, so this is an outlet for him.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Savage… @runole will go MIA per usual.

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 2538

      abstinence or avoiding meat due to being a vegetarian are understandable.

      Stating you will go to Hell if you eat pork is ignorant and stupid.

      Reading between the lines if one feels that strongly about eating pork it certainly is understandable that belief that all infidels should die is understandable.

      As to kneeling for the National Anthem the NFL is trying to straddle the fence.

      So America is to blame for people being shot by law enforcement? I don’t see how anyone can connect those dots.

      It is too bad this is all about Hating America. Truly sad

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXyhGc2YWxI

      Trump for the win!

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Don’t masterbate:

      1 Corinthians 6:18 reads:

      “Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.”

      Remarrying after divorce (sorry Trump)

      Mark 10:11–12 reads:

      “Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.”

      Women talking in church:

      1 Corinthians 14:34 reads:

      “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.”

      Going anywhere near a pig (no football):

      Leviticus 11:7–8 reads:

      “And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.”

      Working on Saturday:

      Exodus 31:14–15 reads:

      “Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.”

      In short. @runole just hates Muslims

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 2538

      Nope don’t hate Muslims. Only those that put their religion above assimilating American/western values. If they are so devout that they consider Pork sending them to Hell it is not a stretch to believe they want death to all infidels to get to their virgins in Heaven.

      Lots of religions have foolish beliefs but most evolved with the discovery of Trichinosis.

      Everyone sins the Christian faith forgives.. the muslim faith stones them to death’

      Time to leave the 12 century…

      GOD BLESS DONALD TRUMP AND AMERICA AMERICA FIRST!

      As soon as I read about Salman Rushdie I knew the Muslim faith was whacked

      Game Set Match

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21932

      “Nope don’t hate Muslims. Only those that put their religion above assimilating American/western values”

      So you like a Muslim as long he a House Muslim, huh Runole?

      Nothing against and Orthodox Jew though….

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Runole, the epitome of “I’m not racist but…”

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 2538

      Uh the orthodox Jew? So they say death to all infidels? Oh and how about the + 2/3’s of the Jewish population that eat pork… Should they be excommunicated?

      You may continue with your defense of the religion of peace?

      https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/07/06/linda_sarsour_asks_muslims_to_form_jihad_against_trump_not_to_assimilate.html

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      It’s amazing how blind you are to your words. This obsession with judging others is anything but Christian.

    • Runole

      Participant
      Post count: 2538

      Listen and learn

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      Are you going senile in your old age?

    • GIJoeWasThere

      Participant
      Post count: 857

      Ahh religion, the great phony divider.

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