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    • michael89156

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      Post count: 3229

      2014 NFL Draft: The problem with waiting on a quarterback By Sander Philipse?@Sanderrp Apr 18 2014, 9:38pmwaiting_zps642eeb3e.jpgSteven Bisig-USA TODAY Sports Waiting on a quarterback in the draft sounds like a great idea, but it leads to problems. Teams are going to wait on drafting a quarterback, Peter King noted on Monday. According to King, at least four teams at the top of the draft (not including the Buccaneers) are "strongly considering" waiting until their second or third picks to take a quarterback. Those NFL teams are all run by idiots. Assuming the report is correct. The problem with drafting a quarterback low is kind of obvious, if you stop and think about it for more than a few seconds: the lower you draft a quarterback, the worse that player is going to be -- and the better a quarterback is, the less likely he is to fall in the draft. After all, what are you going to do if that guy you really want to pick in the second round is instead picked at number 23? Don't believe me? The numbers speak for themselves. It's easy to point to the Seattle Seahawks and Russell Wilson as an example of successfully waiting on a quarterback. But it's also an example of how a lot of other teams failed to draft Wilson, because they decided to wait on the pick. "It's real common for people to say, ‘Hey we loved that guy, too'," Pete Carroll told the Seattle Times. "And we got phone calls right after that sitting in the draft room from people saying, ‘Oh we were going to take him with the next pick.'" Andy Reid loved Russell Wilson, and would have drafted him with his third-round pick, according to Daniel Jeremiah. He was off the board by then. Adam Schefter reported that both the Indianapolis Colts and Washington Redskins were targeting Russell Wilson at the top of the fourth round as a backup quarterback. He never made it there. Undoubtedly, other teams contemplated drafting Wilson at one point or another. Of all of those teams, only one is happy with what they did. And even that team has to consider themselves lucky that Andy Reid wasn't just a little bit more excited about Russell Wilson, or that Robert Griffin III and Andrew Luck were available at the top of the draft. Or that seemingly no one in the NFL could listen to the wisdom of crowds that screamed "Russell Wilson is awesome". What happened in the 2012 draft seems like a sort of collective delusion: NFL teams convinced each other that Russell Wilson would fall, and that's exactly why he fell. The pre-draft NFL team hype on Wilson was relentlessly negative: he was too short, and that was all there was to him. Internet draft scouts loved him, but that doesn't matter to NFL teams. Football Outsiders' forecast loved him, but that doesn't matter to NFL teams, either. And so everyone decided to wait on Wilson, convinced that every other team hated him. That's a dangerous game to play. Sure, people would have laughed at the Seattle Seahawks had they taken Russell Wilson with their first-round pick. But laughter's fairly palatable if you're holding the Lombardi trophy two years later, in large part thanks to that short, obvious failure of a quarterback you drafted in the first round. I said this same thing last year, and I'll say it again this year: if you really like a quarterback, use your first-round pick on him. Don't try to get a steal in a later round. Don't run the risk of missing out on the guy you love at the most important position on the field because you're obsessed with value. You don't want to be the team telling reporters about the franchise passer you would have selected had he fallen just a little farther. You want to be the team that's telling reporters how smart you were for taking that quarterback that high, against all conventional wisdom.http://www.bucsnation.com/2014/4/18/5620736/2014-nfl-draft-the-problem-with-waiting-on-a-quarterback

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 801

      Good article I read this earlier today.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      I completely agree. So many, especially on this very board harp on value….fukk value. If there is a player that you like, and he’s available, you take him. Never assume he’ll be there when your next pick rolls around.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 187

      I agree with hate, I might not like the pick at the time, but it’s not my job on the line. Plus I watch a highlight video and think I’m a pro scout, were as they watch every throw in every game they played in since high school.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2560

      +1.Given that we never get the franchise QB, isn't it time we were over aggressive and got one? Wide receivers, guards, etc. are found every year. Going on 40 years and for us that one spot is usually weak.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2275

      Washington was going to draft another QB? Jesus, no wonder they suck every year. Yes Wilson is ended up being good, but spending 3 high picks on Qbs in 2 years is stupid.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 395

      The problem with this article is it’s based on hindsight. Fact is every pick is a crap shoot. Payton Manning or Ryan Leaf? And the player is just one of the factors that determine wether the pick was a successful one. If Russell was picked by any other team before the Seahawks we wouldn’t be talking about him. Carroll would still be a successful coach with a loaded defense and a badass run game.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1128

      Freeman was the biggest chance that we’ve taken since Dilfer. We aren’t a team that has reached for QBs repeatedly and missed. You have to keep trying till you find one, period..

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2847

          Key words of the article: “if you really like a quarterback”. And the higher you pick him, the MORE you better like him!         Doesn't say to gamble in the 1st round on a guy you have some doubts about. I like how Lovie & Licht say they approach personnel decisions; if EITHER of them have doubts, they DO NOT take the guy...

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Waiting sounds like a wonderful idea.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      This is the year to pretend that no QB is on the board and fill every other need you have at a high level. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 103

      Washington was going to draft another QB? Jesus, no wonder they suck every year. Yes Wilson is ended up being good, but spending 3 high picks on Qbs in 2 years is stupid.

      They drafted Kirk Cousins because they missed out on Russell Wilson. This was the same draft.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      Washington was going to draft another QB? Jesus, no wonder they suck every year. Yes Wilson is ended up being good, but spending 3 high picks on Qbs in 2 years is stupid.

      They drafted Kirk Cousins because they missed out on Russell Wilson. This was the same draft.

      Washington was going to draft Wilson?  News to me.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 103

      Washington was going to draft another QB? Jesus, no wonder they suck every year. Yes Wilson is ended up being good, but spending 3 high picks on Qbs in 2 years is stupid.

      They drafted Kirk Cousins because they missed out on Russell Wilson. This was the same draft.

      Washington was going to draft Wilson?  News to me.

      Sometimes it helps to read the OP.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Washington was going to draft another QB? Jesus, no wonder they suck every year. Yes Wilson is ended up being good, but spending 3 high picks on Qbs in 2 years is stupid.

      They drafted Kirk Cousins because they missed out on Russell Wilson. This was the same draft.

      Washington was going to draft Wilson?  News to me.

      Sometimes it helps to read the OP.

      My point is, how is this something we are just learning about.  Sounds like BS to me.  I have followed Shefty pretty closely, twitter/ESPN, and I dont recall him ever saying this.  Like I said.  First I'm learning of it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      Washington was going to draft another QB? Jesus, no wonder they suck every year. Yes Wilson is ended up being good, but spending 3 high picks on Qbs in 2 years is stupid.

      I assume the article meant they'd have taken Wilson instead of Kirk Cousins. I'd also be careful about pointing at other franchises in terms of sucking considering the unit we all support.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2847

        Iw onder how many say they wanted to take Lavonte David….  ;D

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 8983

      +1.Given that we never get the franchise QB, isn't it time we were over aggressive and got one? Wide receivers, guards, etc. are found every year. Going on 40 years and for us that one spot is usually weak.

      Tampa fans are allergic to franchise qb's.They run around screaming "value" like it has made a difference regarding this team. If anything, being worried about "value" has tricked, lied, and held us back. As I said before, everyone wants to pick to be infallible, but the trouble with that line of thinking is that no pick is a sure thing.There is no "value" in waiting for another qb three years from now, nor selling off a whole draft later on to move up for one in a future draft.And those of you who think that we'll get Famous, ..you're out of your damn minds.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Pass on these QBS. Build the team.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Pass on these QBS. Build the team.

      There is no team without stability at the QB position. Keep swinging!!

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      McCown is the next Gannon/Warner.Have no fear.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      +1.Given that we never get the franchise QB, isn't it time we were over aggressive and got one? Wide receivers, guards, etc. are found every year. Going on 40 years and for us that one spot is usually weak.

      Tampa fans are allergic to franchise qb's.

      Once again, that isn't all that accurate. I'd say most here want us to nab a QB fairly early.Hell, in the "you on are the clock" thread, 20 of the 36 votes cast went to Bridge and Manziel. That's majority. https://www.pewterreport.com/Boards/index.php/topic,1315655.0.htmlI think this is just another example of an overreaction to not everyone one wanting Manziel. So then because not everyone wants Manziel,  then automatically.."Tampa fans are allergic to franchise QBs.Nice leap.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 395

      McCown is the next Gannon/Warner.Have no fear.

      just give me Brad “the bull” Johnson and I’ll be happy

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 801

      Freeman was the biggest chance that we've taken since Dilfer. We aren't a team that has reached for QBs repeatedly and missed. You have to keep trying till tippy findone, period..

      +1 Exactly.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      Freeman was the biggest chance that we've taken since Dilfer. We aren't a team that has reached for QBs repeatedly and missed. You have to keep trying till tippy findone, period..

      +1 Exactly.

      Once you draft a QB in the 1st you are married to that guy for at least 3 years ( sometimes 5 if they show promise ) , unless there is complete meltdown and regime change. If you invest that pick in a QB you are going to give him ample time to finally turn the corner and multiple chances to improve. More than you would any other struggling QB.That's why Freeman was the last....because it takes a long time to run a 1st round pick out of town.This is why the "draft any QB and hope for the best" philosophy is dumb. You better be sure you are getting it right , or you set the team back years while you wait and hope this talented dud turns the corner.If the right QB isn't available you're better off doing in plug-n-play with vets like Gruden did.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4140

      With the new CBA, these “married” conversations are no longer valid…The marriage was a result of the $50M+ being spent,  now...  Clearly its no where near that...The risk model has changed.  If you don't have a legitimate QB who can put the team on his back and you're picking top 10 (most likely because of that) then you have to take s shot.A team who doesn't have that QB will always being mediocre or worse.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      It is valid ….if you draft a QB in the 1st that’s your guy and you are going to believe in him and give him a ton more chances than any other QB on your roster. It has nothing to do with salary.If Lovie invests the 7th overall pick in Manziel this year and he looks horrible , you think he is going to give up and look to replace him already in 2015 ?? Hell no . We are married to him 3 years at least.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4140

      So you’re starting your QB year one…I am not.  Perfect scenario to not have to.We have a proven vet to carry us through 2014...

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 801

      With the new CBA, these "married" conversations are no longer valid...The marriage was a result of the $50M+ being spent,  now...  Clearly its no where near that...The risk model has changed. If you don't have a legitimate QB who can put the team on his back and you're picking top 10 (most likely because of that) then you have to take a shot.A team who doesn't have that QB will always being mediocre or worse.

      Salient point. And considering we haven't made the playoffs since 2007 why exactly are we being gun-shy? Bad regimes aside you need a good QB to excel in this league. It's easy to easy to say we got it done with Brad Johnson but we had hall of famers on that defense. That's rare. So unless you have defense like that you better have a good QB because mediocre won't cut especially in our division currently.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      So you're starting your QB year one...I am not.  Perfect scenario to not have to.We have a proven vet to carry us through 2014...

      You think a QB drafted 7th overall is going to sit the bench a year ?? You really are dreaming , lol.  That never happens anymore.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 4140

      A hall of fame defense is just as rare as a franchise qb.    This team shouldn't and won't ignore that this year.

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    • dalbuc

      Participant
      Post count: 696

      I’ll wait to see how Wilson does behind a terrible defense, as of now he is riding a great defense.  If you have a great defense you can afford to take a risk and wait until the 2nd or 3rd round.  That being said, I don’t think our team is in a position to wait until the 2nd or 3rd, and I would not make my draft moves based on assuming we will have a great defense this year.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1875

      So you're starting your QB year one...I am not.  Perfect scenario to not have to.We have a proven vet to carry us through 2014...

      You think a QB drafted 7th overall is going to sit the bench a year ?? You really are dreaming , lol.  That never happens anymore.

      I think that is entirely dependent upon the situation at hand.  Lovie went and got McCown – not for the long run – rather until he has “his” qb ready to go. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2775

      So you're starting your QB year one...I am not.  Perfect scenario to not have to.We have a proven vet to carry us through 2014...

      You think a QB drafted 7th overall is going to sit the bench a year ?? You really are dreaming , lol.  That never happens anymore.

      Exactly.  If you draft him #7 he plays week one and Glennon and McCown sit back and deal with what happens.  LandL know this and aren't going to start a shit storm month three.  If this drafted QB starts and is worse than say 19-9 than we need to cut him and move on to Winston or Mariota. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 9276

      I fully believe we could draft a QB at #7 and McCown would still get the nod week 1….and he’d keep that spot as long as he’s productive and we’re in contention. We’re all aware that neither of these guys are Andrew Luck and would benefit from not being forced into action right away. Manziel, imo, would bring the most pressure to play him….will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1875

      So you're starting your QB year one...I am not.  Perfect scenario to not have to.We have a proven vet to carry us through 2014...

      You think a QB drafted 7th overall is going to sit the bench a year ?? You really are dreaming , lol.  That never happens anymore.

      Exactly.  If you draft him #7 he plays week one and Glennon and McCown sit back and deal with what happens.  LandL know this and aren't going to start a **CENSORED** storm month three.  If this drafted QB starts and is worse than say 19-9 than we need to cut him and move on to Winston or Mariota.

      Is this a tenet of the NFL now?  I missed the vote and acceptance of this approach.  So you two, in spite of L and L signing McCown, believe that if the bucs take a first round qb they MUST start him immediately? 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1571

      The flip side of this article is “The problem with drafting a QB too soon just because you need one”.  It would refer to players like Ponder, Locker, and Weeden.What some people don't seem to realize is that it isn't QB vs no QB.  Its Watkins vs Bridgewater or Donald vs Manziel.  You have to look at the player AND the position- not one or the other.  "I want a QB" and "I want QB X" are two very different statements.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2967

      Author is missing the point. Maybe the QBs in this draft just aren’t that good. Or at least the teams think that way.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      Author is missing the point. Maybe the QBs in this draft just aren't that good. Or at least the teams think that way.

      EXACTLY.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 11506

      The flip side of this article is "The problem with drafting a QB too soon just because you need one".  It would refer to players like Ponder, Locker, and Weeden.What some people don't seem to realize is that it isn't QB vs no QB.  Its Watkins vs Bridgewater or Donald vs Manziel.  You have to look at the player AND the position- not one or the other.  "I want a QB" and "I want QB X" are two very different statements.

      EXACTLY.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      So you're starting your QB year one...I am not.  Perfect scenario to not have to.We have a proven vet to carry us through 2014...

      You think a QB drafted 7th overall is going to sit the bench a year ?? You really are dreaming , lol.  That never happens anymore.

      Exactly.  If you draft him #7 he plays week one and Glennon and McCown sit back and deal with what happens.  LandL know this and aren't going to start a **CENSORED** storm month three.  If this drafted QB starts and is worse than say 19-9 than we need to cut him and move on to Winston or Mariota.

      Is this a tenet of the NFL now?  I missed the vote and acceptance of this approach.  So you two, in spite of L and L signing McCown, believe that if the bucs take a first round qb they MUST start him immediately?

      There is no tenet but the fans get restless, hell, the owners and GM's get restless, and there is no Brett Favre in the equation to curb fans' thirst for their first round QB.  A first round QB probably causes more problems for this team than solutions short term and Lovie seems to want to win now.............as do I.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      So you're starting your QB year one...I am not.  Perfect scenario to not have to.We have a proven vet to carry us through 2014...

      You think a QB drafted 7th overall is going to sit the bench a year ?? You really are dreaming , lol.  That never happens anymore.

      Exactly.  If you draft him #7 he plays week one and Glennon and McCown sit back and deal with what happens.  LandL know this and aren't going to start a **CENSORED** storm month three.  If this drafted QB starts and is worse than say 19-9 than we need to cut him and move on to Winston or Mariota.

      Is this a tenet of the NFL now?  I missed the vote and acceptance of this approach.  So you two, in spite of L and L signing McCown, believe that if the bucs take a first round qb they MUST start him immediately?

      There is no tenet but the fans get restless, hell, the owners and GM's get restless, and there is no Brett Favre in the equation to curb fans' thirst for their first round QB.  A first round QB probably causes more problems for this team than solutions short term and Lovie seems to want to win now.............as do I.

      Gotcha – just something you think might be the case

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2015

      The flip side of this article is "The problem with drafting a QB too soon just because you need one".  It would refer to players like Ponder, Locker, and Weeden.What some people don't seem to realize is that it isn't QB vs no QB.  Its Watkins vs Bridgewater or Donald vs Manziel.  You have to look at the player AND the position- not one or the other.  "I want a QB" and "I want QB X" are two very different statements.

      Wow, great post.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4057

      The flip side of this article is "The problem with drafting a QB too soon just because you need one".  It would refer to players like Ponder, Locker, and Weeden.What some people don't seem to realize is that it isn't QB vs no QB.  Its Watkins vs Bridgewater or Donald vs Manziel.  You have to look at the player AND the position- not one or the other.  "I want a QB" and "I want QB X" are two very different statements.

      Wow,really, the draft is a selection between various players?  BIIIIIG insight.  The thing is people looking at QB are looking at the guy in this draft and looking at guys like Evans or Ebron or whatever will be there when we pick and saying the QB is both a value and a need. Plus, while the QBs this year have warts most of us also do not foresee getting the elite levels picks so any QB we select in the foreseeable future will be picking similar quality players -- and that ignore that  most years there aren't Luck level prospects.

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