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    • michael89156

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      Post count: 3229

      The Sky is Not Falling Apr 10 2014, 12:59pmsky_zpse46ac2a3.jpgKim Klement-USA TODAY Sports There is this French saying, "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."  It means the more things change, the more they remain the same.  With the abrupt, surprise trade of wide receiver Mike Williams from Tampa Bay to Buffalo, the fan base is at an uproar because of the immediate void that Mike Williams now leaves.  The factor for the trade was mounting bad press from many different infractions, though none seem as drastic as others.  The Tampa Bay Buccaneers have been through this before quite recently.  Instead of rolling our eyes and say here we go again, many think this move is quite absurd to the point it is cataclysmic. Let us all take a step back into history, namely the 2011 season, the Youngry season.  We finished 4 - 12, losing 10 consecutive games.  The team gave up.  Then general manager Mark Dominik knew this well and eventually settled upon a college coach, Greg Schiano.  Schiano has a reputation of taking a little known Rugters team and made them competitive, a trait that spoke volumes to Dominik as well as the owners, the Glazers. In order to change the culture a certain way, one needs to purge certain people that do not conform to the projected culture.  Here's a snippet from a 2012 season preview: New sideline boss Greg Schiano is virtually Morris' complete antithesis, a stickler for rules and details who preaches unity and accountability. And the former Rutgers program architect wasted no time in weeding out members of the previous regime that didn't share his vision. Tight end Kellen Winslow, a noted non-conformist, was traded to Seattle in May. Defensive tackle Brian Price was sent to Chicago at the outset of training camp following an altercation with rookie safety Mark Barron in a team meeting. Wide receiver Dezmon Briscoe was waived that same day after skipping a slew of voluntary offseason workouts and subsequently failing his conditioning test. Make no mistake, Schiano is the captain of the Buccaneers' ship. And those who aren't on board with the new direction will be shipped out. Kellen was the team's second rated receiving threat in 2011.  Apparently, jettisoning him did not hurt the team.  In fact, Mike Williams benefitted from the acquisition of a true number one receiver in Vincent Jackson in 2012.  Williams had his best production in yards while being a number two wideout.  People forgot a bit about those players as the 2012 season finished with three more wins than the previous season. During the 2012 season, the team traded away their number one corner in Aqib Talib while he was suspended for four games due to a performance enhancing drug, PED, violation.  Talib only played for games with the Bucs in 2012.  We also lost our second cornerback in Eric Wright due to a PED  violation and injury for the final six games.  Still, our defense played admirable under those conditions. In the 2013 offseason, Eric Wright was released due to infractions outside of football, arrested for suspicion of DUI.  The Bucs' had to release Eric Wright because he failed a trade physical with the San Francisco 49ers.  That was depth that hurt the Bucs in the secondary, but fortunately they had drafted CB Johnthan Banks in the second round. Here is a snapshot between 2011 and 2012, losing TE Kellen Winslow Jr as well as between 2012 and 2013, losing both starting cornerbacks in Talib and Wright.sky1_zpseb95be05.gifOf course, there were additions made in between the subtractions.  Before the 2012 season, the Bucs acquired WR Vincent Jackson to be the #1 wideout.  For the 2013 offseason, the Bucs traded for CB Darrelle Revis to be their #1 corner. The big purge also included then starting quarterback Josh Freeman after the third game of 2013.  Freeman's bad play combined with lackadaisical demeanor at One Buc Place and odd informational leaks made it easier for the organization to dump Freeman.  Again, the organization was fortunate to draft a quarterback in the third round - Mike Glennon. Even though the 2013 season had the same record as the 2011 season, the biggest difference is that the culture did not give up.  For the past two seasons, Schiano has done a lot of trimming in order to placate the idea of "Buccaneer Men" within One Bucs Place.  Schiano was not all too heartless as long leashes were given to Eric Wright, Brian Price and Mike Williams, because most of the bad incidences occurred under Schiano, save the stabbing and the lawsuit.  Yet, Mike Williams was already on thin ice back then. There is truth that the offense finished 32nd, or last in total offense as well as passing offense.  Here are two charts that reveal our top five receivers in both seasons:sky2_zpsa69ef262.gifsky3_zpsac579e55.gifMike Williams and Doug Martin played very little due to injuries.  The charts reveal that.  Tim Wright was a very great surprise in 2013, an undrafted free agent.  Underwood had fewer opportunities to catch the ball, but produced more.  When the team losses two of its top three receivers it can be a very destructive result.  The yards lost between Martin and Williams between 2012 to 2013 (using 2012 stats as the control, or base setting) is a total of 1,252 yards.sky4_zps847c6405.gifWith a healthy Doug Martin and a possible WR in the top two rounds, we may yet improve on offense from 2013.  The addition of Doug Martin alone will possibly net 400 yards or more if he plays for all 16 games.  Do not forget the acquisition of TE Myers as well to help with possible receiving threats, posing a possible two TE set with Tim Wright. It is safe to say that there were more uncertainties back when Schiano first started his purging ways than there is today, two seasons later.  Lovie Smith just finished the job that Schiano started.  Even though the release of Mike Williams was reactionary as he was traded after the high profile players were signed, the organization is still in good shape to replace his position via the draft.  2014 FA WR Louis Murphy can replace Underwood's position and the team will try to put speedster RB Jeff Demps into the slot. Losing Mike Williams' talent is bad, but the hyperbole that we made our offense worse with this one move with the draft still looming that boasts two top wide receivers in Sammy Watkins and Mike Evans, is just that - a hyperbole.  Now releasing CB Eric Wright for nothing after the draft and FA period, that is bad because most of the good options were gone and we were going to rely on rookie Johnthan Banks.  Huh... I suppose that situation is not all that different than the Williams one as they were both second in their positions, except the player we will be replacing with might be a high first round pick than a high second round pick as well as get a sixth round pick.  That sixth round pick could be as useful as say a Mike James?  (I hope we can use that sixth to pick up RB James Wilder Jr. to present a different type of back compared to the small running backs we have on our roster.)http://www.bucsnation.com/2014/4/10/5588904/the-sky-is-not-falling

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Should have kept him for one more.  Noses can be wiped, which is what TDMike needed. But I get it. Lovie ain't got time for that. Williams is a dummy, and he did this to himself, and to the Tampax fan base.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6506

      I think no matter what you do as a HC/GM, there is a decent chance of your players effing up and getting into trouble and letting your down. However, I think the smart thing to do is try and put together a team of dependable, trustworthy, good character guys that are going to bond well and keep each other out of trouble. It’s really hard to make any long term progress when every time you patch a hole on your roster, you have another one open up because some knucklehead is getting suspended for a failed drug test or is getting arrested. As a HC/GM your career depends on the roster your create. You need to know that you have a built yourself up on a solid foundation of good people you can trust. I think Lovie simply saw Mike as a bad influence on the locker room, and a wildcard that could not be counted on going forward. We might be able to start bringing in a few troubled guys here and there once the foundation is set, but right now we are at ground zero and you can’t have faulty bricks at the base of your home.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      I think no matter what you do as a HC/GM, there is a decent chance of your players effing up and getting into trouble and letting your down. However, I think the smart thing to do is try and put together a team of dependable, trustworthy, good character guys that are going to bond well and keep each other out of trouble. It's really hard to make any long term progress when every time you patch a hole on your roster, you have another one open up because some knucklehead is getting suspended for a failed drug test or is getting arrested. As a HC/GM your career depends on the roster your create. You need to know that you have a built yourself up on a solid foundation of good people you can trust. I think Lovie simply saw Mike as a bad influence on the locker room, and a wildcard that could not be counted on going forward. We might be able to start bringing in a few troubled guys here and there once the foundation is set, but right now we are at ground zero and you can't have faulty bricks at the base of your home.

      +1and if the GM/HC are going to take the approach you outline there is no better time than  NOW to make changes because, just in case they have not made it clear enough already,  the GM/HC are taking over a "4-12 team."  This next season is not the determining factor in their time with the Bucs.  Williams is an idiot for not realizing the dynamics.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2775

      Wow, our offense last year was truly devoid of talent outside of Vjax.  Depressing to look at.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      I think no matter what you do as a HC/GM, there is a decent chance of your players effing up and getting into trouble and letting your down. However, I think the smart thing to do is try and put together a team of dependable, trustworthy, good character guys that are going to bond well and keep each other out of trouble. It's really hard to make any long term progress when every time you patch a hole on your roster, you have another one open up because some knucklehead is getting suspended for a failed drug test or is getting arrested. As a HC/GM your career depends on the roster your create. You need to know that you have a built yourself up on a solid foundation of good people you can trust. I think Lovie simply saw Mike as a bad influence on the locker room, and a wildcard that could not be counted on going forward. We might be able to start bringing in a few troubled guys here and there once the foundation is set, but right now we are at ground zero and you can't have faulty bricks at the base of your home.

      Good post.  In the long run, Williams was undependable.  It is better to know there is a hole that needs fixing now, while there is still a draft/more offseason to address it.  Losing Williams for whatever reason after the season starts really prevents any opportunity to address it.  The sky is not falling.  This is just the one step back before the two steps forward (I hope).

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      OMG, this forum is crazy. How was Williams undependable? Hadn’t missed a single game over his first 3 years? He got put on IR and taken away from the game and did some stupid things. He missed some hamstring therapy, reportedly. Did he quit on the field? Did  he tell Lovie to shove it? Nope. He was out in Tampa drinking several times a week and posting such on instagram, which was probably more the downfall that him actually partying. You guys are crazy if you think Mike was the only one out partying. Literally every other guy was out drinking, having dinner, hanging out, the difference is that he started rapping which you idiots see as a "thug" thing and got stabbed by his brother. He' done things that from a PR standpoint are not smart. Has he been arrested? Charged with Felonies? Misdemeanors? Nope, so far cleared of everything but sent packing because of his apparent lack of dedication. You guys will keep saying what you say and keep blindly following Lovie because he's the savior. Our offense is significantly worse than it was thanks to this move. And yes it can be worse than last year.  Wake up sheep! You want a bunch of "good guys" on this team, that's not the reality, at all. You know how much stuff goes on that no one knows about? It's insane if you knew the crap these guys were doing. Is Lovie going to cut every guy that party's in the offseason? Because we'll have about 10 guys left on the team if thats the case.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      OMG, this forum is crazy. How was Williams undependable? Hadn't missed a single game over his first 3 years? He got put on IR and taken away from the game and did some stupid things. He missed some hamstring therapy, reportedly. Did he quit on the field? Did  he tell Lovie to shove it? Nope. He was out in Tampa drinking several times a week and posting such on instagram, which was probably more the downfall that him actually partying. You guys are crazy if you think Mike was the only one out partying. Literally every other guy was out drinking, having dinner, hanging out, the difference is that he started rapping which you idiots see as a "thug" thing and got stabbed by his brother. He' done things that from a PR standpoint are not smart. Has he been arrested? Charged with Felonies? Misdemeanors? Nope, so far cleared of everything but sent packing because of his apparent lack of dedication. You guys will keep saying what you say and keep blindly following Lovie because he's the savior. Our offense is significantly worse than it was thanks to this move. And yes it can be worse than last year.  Wake up sheep! You want a bunch of "good guys" on this team, that's not the reality, at all. You know how much stuff goes on that no one knows about? It's insane if you knew the crap these guys were doing. Is Lovie going to cut every guy that party's in the offseason? Because we'll have about 10 guys left on the team if thats the case.

      are you Mike Williams?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      No ny, you wake up.Players like that aren't dependable and make your team look bad.I didn't want them to toss him away either, but it's bs how much crap keeps happening around him. You're inviting that same character into the locker room too.But I guess it's tough to talk about that with me. Hell, I want worthless bumtoe nicks gone too.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Just compare Williams to Martin, both were injured right?  How about Williams to Nicks? Now, consider that William's agent had to be in his ear and consider that he probably got many private and several public warnings from the Bucs . . . . and that this same stuff impacted his value in the draft, right?Williams was traded because he's DUMB, he could've prevented all of this

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 312

      OMG, this forum is crazy. How was Williams undependable? You guys are crazy if you think Mike was the only one out partying. Literally every other guy was out drinking, having dinner, hanging out, the difference is that he started rapping which you idiots see as a "thug" thing and got stabbed by his brother. He' done things that from a PR standpoint are not smart. Has he been arrested? Charged with Felonies? Misdemeanors? Nope, so far cleared of everything but sent packing because of his apparent lack of dedication.

      lmao, it's not the rapping........

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      Hey, you give me $50 million at age 22 and I might have been an idiot too. That said, Williams sure screwed up

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2594

      Did he quit on the field?

      Constantly

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      Did he quit on the field?

      Constantly

      Your mom quit

      Just compare Williams to Martin, both were injured right?  How about Williams to Nicks? Now, consider that William's agent had to be in his ear and consider that he probably got many private and several public warnings from the Bucs . . . . and that this same stuff impacted his value in the draft, right?Williams was traded because he's DUMB, he could've prevented all of this

      There is no comparision. Nicks and Martin are the rare normal and fully functioning adults outside of the NFL. Most are not, which is why most are blow through millions and are broke within 5 years of being out of the NFL. I'd love to have a team full of guys like that but we don't and no one does. So you put up with the dumbass like Mike and cut the criminals.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Just compare Williams to Martin, both were injured right?  How about Williams to Nicks? Now, consider that William's agent had to be in his ear and consider that he probably got many private and several public warnings from the Bucs . . . . and that this same stuff impacted his value in the draft, right?Williams was traded because he's DUMB, he could've prevented all of this

      There is no comparision. Nicks and Martin are the rare normal and fully functioning adults outside of the NFL. Most are not, which is why most are blow through millions and are broke within 5 years of being out of the NFL. I'd love to have a team full of guys like that but we don't and no one does. So you put up with the dumbass like Mike and cut the criminals.

      You don't "put up with" a guy like Williams when he has given you -- new coach and new GM -- no indication (even after a few warnings) that he gets it.  Hopefully it works out for both sides, but Williams is gone because of Williams and no one else and proof of that is found in the all "stats only" arguments you make in his defense.  In other words, if you take the Madden-esque view that a player is SOLELY his stats then Williams has some value and you may "put up with him.". However, a team sport is not Madden, particularly with a new regime coming in to take over a 4-12 team, so there is more to the analysis than pure stats, including whether the current post-contract Williams is more like those past stats or more like the more recent distracted guy on then bench with a hamstring injury.  . .  the guy posting about CMG and house parties and $30,000 dinners and stripper tryouts and smacking friends with wads of cash . . . lolIt was a simple analysis for Lovie and Licht:  "Does MW want to be here?"  Did he give them any indication he did?  NOPE

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    • BConnell88

      Participant
      Post count: 83

      Did he quit on the field?

      Constantly

      Your mom quit

      Just compare Williams to Martin, both were injured right?  How about Williams to Nicks? Now, consider that William's agent had to be in his ear and consider that he probably got many private and several public warnings from the Bucs . . . . and that this same stuff impacted his value in the draft, right?Williams was traded because he's DUMB, he could've prevented all of this

      There is no comparision. Nicks and Martin are the rare normal and fully functioning adults outside of the NFL. Most are not, which is why most are blow through millions and are broke within 5 years of being out of the NFL. I'd love to have a team full of guys like that but we don't and no one does. So you put up with the dumbass like Mike and cut the criminals.

      The mom jokes are pretty immature buddy.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Lol @BucNY in full Java meltdown mode. Everyone saw this coming. The good news is that this draft is literally filled with WR's who project as a no.2 WR. 2nd round possibilities:Jordan MathewsAllen Roninson.3rd roundJarvis Landry Moncreif4th roundJeff JanisCody LattimoreAs a fan, I am not worried. This is a perfect year to need a WR. Evans or Watkins would be a major upgrade if they spend a 1st on WR.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      I cant believe someone is this butt hurt over the departure of one Mike Williams.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11506

      I cant believe someone is this butt hurt over the departure of one Mike Williams.

      Remember where BucNY is from....he's probably a Syracuse homer.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1312

      Did he quit on the field?

      Constantly

      Your mom quit

      Just compare Williams to Martin, both were injured right?  How about Williams to Nicks? Now, consider that William's agent had to be in his ear and consider that he probably got many private and several public warnings from the Bucs . . . . and that this same stuff impacted his value in the draft, right?Williams was traded because he's DUMB, he could've prevented all of this

      There is no comparision. Nicks and Martin are the rare normal and fully functioning adults outside of the NFL. Most are not, which is why most are blow through millions and are broke within 5 years of being out of the NFL. I'd love to have a team full of guys like that but we don't and no one does. So you put up with the dumbass like Mike and cut the criminals.

      Thank you for finally answering my question about your age. Now give your mommy back her laptop and go write that book report you are supposed to be doing right now.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2601

      Mike’s actions had basically a zero percent chance of getting him game suspensions.If they got at least a 3rd for Williams, I'd call it a win. The bucs got screwed, as they usually do, and there's no sense whining about it.Here's to rebuilding. Cheers :P

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 103

      I think no matter what you do as a HC/GM, there is a decent chance of your players effing up and getting into trouble and letting your down. However, I think the smart thing to do is try and put together a team of dependable, trustworthy, good character guys that are going to bond well and keep each other out of trouble. It's really hard to make any long term progress when every time you patch a hole on your roster, you have another one open up because some knucklehead is getting suspended for a failed drug test or is getting arrested. As a HC/GM your career depends on the roster your create. You need to know that you have a built yourself up on a solid foundation of good people you can trust. I think Lovie simply saw Mike as a bad influence on the locker room, and a wildcard that could not be counted on going forward. We might be able to start bringing in a few troubled guys here and there once the foundation is set, but right now we are at ground zero and you can't have faulty bricks at the base of your home.

      Schiano men? I think all coaches want that ideal world but they sadly are given the realistic world in which anyone can be a let down. Also sometimes talent is attached to arrogance and idiotic old tendencies. But hopefully this year will be different for the Bucs. No distractions and less hazmat suits.

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