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    • HolyBuc

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      The trouble in Tampa BayWinless Bucs dealing with MRSA outbreak, tensions with SchianoUpdated: November 1, 2013, 10:06 PM ETBy Elizabeth MerrillWhat's Wrong With The Bucs?Brian Dawkins on the issues with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and how to turn things around.Tags: NFL, Tampa Bay BuccaneersNEXT VIDEO Greg Schiano On The Hot SeatTAMPA, Fla. -- He looks as if he could've been one of them at some point, with his beefy arms and gap-toothed smile. There was a time, years ago, when Greg Schiano could have sold a whole room with his conviction. He'd sit on strangers' couches, in Oakland, N.J., or Fort Lauderdale, Fla., and make promises. Give me your boy, he'd say, and I'll bring him back a man. Trust me, he'd say. And they would.But then there were no boys left, only men. Schiano, former hero at Rutgers University, started his second season with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in a meeting room in late July. He gathered dozens of men together, millionaires with Range Rovers, grunts who'd be gone within weeks. He showed a video clip of the Super Bowl, told the Bucs they were good enough to be there and passed around a sheet of paper with a connect-the-dots puzzle. The connected dots revealed a picture of the Lombardi trophy.The goals were by no means a stretch. The Bucs had eight Pro Bowlers and newly acquired defensive stars Darrelle Revis and Dashon Goldson. They'd make it if they stayed together and followed Schiano's theme of Trust, Belief and Accountability -- TBA, as he liked to call it. Trust the system, believe in him, be accountable for yourself.Schiano didn't know that in three months his team would be 0-7 and he'd be fighting for his job. He didn't know that by the first week of training camp, he'd already lost them.Every now and then, there is an NFL team trapped in a season so miserable, so rife with drama and strange-but-true turns, that it almost becomes a cross between Murphy's Law, a sitcom and a disaster scene. You cannot look away, even though the ending is inevitable.[+] EnlargeAl Messerschmidt/Getty ImagesTampa Bay coach Greg Schiano is on the hot seat after his team's 0-7 start this season.These are the 2013 Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They had a players-only meeting before the regular season even started. They had a controversy over possible tampering with the vote for team captains. They were struck by MRSA, a staph infection resistant to antibiotics, and it got so bad that the NFL and NFLPA had to step in and work in unison in what one source called "basically crisis management." In a way, the MRSA outbreak has been a metaphor for the Bucs this season -- a seemingly ever-present infection, creating a distraction off the field, plaguing them wherever they go. A clean-up crew was dispatched in Atlanta to scrub the visitors' locker room in the Georgia Dome after the Bucs played the Falcons; in last week's Thursday night game against Carolina, the Panthers carefully laid towels all over the locker room floor at Raymond James Stadium out of fear of catching anything in Tampa."We didn't really want to touch anything in here," Carolina safety Mike Mitchell said. "We just wanted to get in and out."[Dealing with that] every day, man, that would suck."The season opener was lost on a personal-foul penalty in the final seconds. The game, against the New York Jets, started with communication problems when quarterback Josh Freeman's headset malfunctioned. And that was fitting. The first two games were lost by a combined three points. Week 2 provided a glimpse of how good the Bucs could have been, when they narrowly missed beating New Orleans. It was downhill from there.Tensions bubbled between Schiano and Freeman, and on Oct. 3, the Bucs cut their fifth-year starter. Along the way, there were daily headlines about Freeman being barred from the Tampa Bay sideline and questions about who leaked information that the quarterback was participating in the NFL's Stage 1 drug treatment program. Schiano, when previously asked whether he was the source of the information, said "absolutely not." (Freeman later issued a statement saying his participation is voluntary and that he tested positive after switching his ADHD medicine.)This week, it's finally quiet in Tampa. The news trucks have pulled away and moved on to something different, something relevant."They seem like a team that's just beaten down," said a former NFL executive, speaking under the condition of anonymity. "Let's just say that place right now has a culture of mistrust on many different levels."It manifests itself. They don't trust what they're being told, they don't trust the message and they don't trust that people are looking out for them. It's not going to end well."Almost every new regime starts because someone else has failed. Before Schiano left the calm waters of Rutgers for this choppy voyage into the NFL, the Buccaneers were led by Raheem Morris, a young, laid-back man known widely as a players' coach. The Bucs played hard for Morris in 2010, when they went 10-6 and narrowly missed a playoff berth. But when he was fired after a 4-12 record the next season, the franchise sought out a different personality, a disciplinarian.Schiano started off his first training camp in 2012 with a conditioning test. The Bucs were to run 110 yards from the back of the end zone to the opposite goal line and had to make it in an allotted time that varied according to position. They ran the 110 yards 16 times. If a player failed to hit his time in any of the 16 runs, he flunked the test and had to do it again before he could practice.According to a couple of accounts, several players vomited in the oppressive Florida heat and others required IV fluids. Hamstrings pulled, and those who emerged unscathed were fatigued by early August."Everyone thinks he started losing the team recently," former Bucs defensive end E.J. Wilson said. "He started losing the team around the middle of training camp last year. It never really came out, but there were a lot of guys who were not happy being there. A lot of the veteran guys were like, 'We're going to give it a chance,' but it kind of felt like they weren't really being treated like men.[+] EnlargeBrett McMurphyAn electronic billboard calling for the Buccaneers to fire coach Greg Schiano has popped up in Tampa."It was almost like being a freshman in college all over again. You were nervous of being made an example of for breaking one small rule."Wilson was coming back from a torn Achilles in the summer of 2012. He was hurting one day during camp, so a trainer pulled him from a workout. Wilson said Schiano spotted him on an exercise bike and insisted he practice or Schiano would find somebody else who would.Wilson was eventually cut from the team in 2012 and said he's finished playing football, in part, because of his experiences with Schiano. There was a weeding-out process that offseason, an effort to cast out the players who clearly weren't Schiano guys.A Schiano guy is mentally tough and disciplined. He puts team above everything. Derrick Roberson, who played for Schiano at Rutgers and Tampa Bay, said the conditioning tests were a tool to see who was all-in and who wasn't; who trained in the offseason and who didn't.But in the Bucs' locker room, the complaints mounted. Most players hadn't run those kinds of drills since college, before their bodies were older and beat up. Roberson heard the grumblings. "They felt like he treated them like they were kids," he said.Roberson tried to tell them about the Schiano he knew, about the man who did everything he promised, who made him a man. Rutgers had never won a bowl game in 137 years of football before Schiano led them to victory. Trust, Belief, Accountability. The 2006 team bought in, wore bracelets with the mantra and played Kansas State -- and Freeman -- in the Texas Bowl. Roberson had a shoulder injury and a hip flexor and needed to be shot up with cortisone to play. And when Rutgers beat the Wildcats, Schiano found Roberson and whispered in his ear."You have me for life," Schiano told him.So Roberson, like other Scarlet Knights who were added to that Tampa roster, tried to plead Schiano's case. Their teammates weren't exactly receptive.The rules were too rigid. No hats in the meeting room. No earrings at practice. No conspiring in small groups. Schiano, who's big on hydration, required each player to be armed with two bottles of water during training camp meetings."They focus on stuff that doesn't need to be focused on," one former Bucs player said. "I don't dance unless I hear music. If I'm not thirsty, I'm not going to drink water."There were signs, by December 2012, that Freeman wasn't Schiano's guy. The coach started to waffle a bit in interviews when asked about his confidence in the quarterback. Freeman was easygoing and confident. Nothing seemed to rattle him, and he was at his best when everything seemed to be falling apart. Schiano is a details guy, a man who likes to plan and prepare for everything.Freeman's camp is convinced that Schiano knew, for at least a year, that he didn't want Freeman. And that he was just waiting for an excuse to cut ties with the quarterback. Freeman missed a team photo because he overslept. That no doubt drew the ire of a coach who preaches accountability. By early in the season, it was clear they had irreconcilable differences and couldn't coexist."This is the NFL, and successful organizations are a delicate balance," a source close to Freeman said. "If you take someone as significant as your quarterback out of the equation at the wrong time, you jack up the whole system."Al Messerschmidt/Getty ImagesFans in Tampa have made note of the MRSA problem affecting the team.There are varying accounts as to what was discussed in that players-only meeting before the season started. Some say it was the captains vote, a vote that did not pick Freeman. Others say it was an impromptu pep rally. It is clear that during training camp, a group of players met with Schiano in an attempt to tone down his extra-rigorous  workouts. The coach, according to sources, told the players that they had to trust him and that he knew what he was doing. The workouts did not get any easier.Sources told ESPN.com that the Bucs nearly went under review by the NFLPA last spring for their offseason workout practices that were considered violations of the collective bargaining agreement. Schiano declined a one-on-one interview request for this story.In news conferences, he'll say he's working as hard and as smart as he can and that he can't let the outside world affect him. But now there's a billboard in Tampa that says "Fire Schiano." And near Raymond James Stadium, signs advertise Bucs tickets for as low as $30.The 31-13 loss to the Carolina Panthers on Oct. 24 was possibly the lowest point of Schiano's tenure so far. Boos and chants calling for his demise rained down from the stands. Schiano did not slow down or acknowledge it. After the game, he marched briskly ahead, past the events staffers in the tunnel. "I feel sorry for that guy," one of the staffers said.Football is a game of centimeters and miles, of luck and despair, and who knows where his team would be without a penalty in Week 1 or a couple of misses in Week 2? Who knows where the Bucs would be if they had trust or belief?"I've had some years where we haven't won very much, but it almost made sense, you know what I mean?" Bucs kicker Rian Lindell said. "I look around this room … we have the talent. And when our offense takes the field, I think, 'OK, we're going to drive down.' Same thing with the defense. I think, 'We're going to stop them.' It just hasn't happened. It hasn't clicked."Outside the stadium, hours before the Carolina game, there was optimism. A man dressed in a pirate suit walked around assuring fans that it would be their night and that the losing skid would end. Tailgaters waved their pewter and red flags. This is a patient city. In 1976, the Bucs went 0-14, the first team to go an entire season without a win or a tie. But that was an expansion team. There are no answers for this.Across the street from the stadium, Jim Kerr, a construction worker in Tampa, wondered when the skid would end. He has missed two home games since 1976, one because of the flu, another because of a buddy's bachelor party. He vomited both times, he said.Kerr keeps coming to the games because, like many others in Tampa, he's loyal. But things could get ugly in the next few weeks. On Sunday, the Bucs visit the Seattle Seahawks, who are 7-1 and leading the NFC West. Then there's a "Monday Night Football" home game against the Dolphins in a stadium that could be angry and could be half empty.In this dysfunctional, unbelievable season, nobody knows what will happen next."If we had a roof," Kerr said, "it would've caved in this year."RECOMMEND808TWEET37COMMENTS226EMAILPRINTSUBSCRIBEElizabeth Merrill | emailArchiveSenior writer for ESPN.comFormerly at "The Kansas City Star" and "The Omaha World-Herald"

    • HolyBuc

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      Post count: 45

    • Richie Cartman

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      Post count: 147

      Bucs making these writers jobs too easy with this season.

    • DanTurksGhost

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      Post count: 292

      Good article, thanks for posting it.

    • dalbuc

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      Post count: 730

      I have to say I am getting rather sick of these articles.  Frankly I am happy disliking Rutgers for his wrong approach to Sundays but a lot of this stuff actually makes me a bit sympathetic to him.the moron player saying if he's thirsty he will drink.  No dude, you do actually need to be hydrating all along the way not just once you get thirsty.  Have to also say that draconian rules about hats inside don't spill much beer on my table. The oddity is that in a concern for hydration you then run these 110 yard gassers and run them a lot of times. All coaches skate really close to the practice rules about contact and plenty of other teams have been cited for violating those rules. Oh and obviously cutting Freeman remains the best thing he's done.

    • Bucfucious

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      Post count: 8

      Grown men quit when they can’t wear their earrings. Stop treating them like children.

    • JDouble

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      Post count: 116

      A connect the dots of the Lombardi trophy? Really? Is this made up or for realz?

    • jerseybucsfan

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      Post count: 551

      Good article, thanks for posting it.

      Humbly respectfully disagree. It’s lazy, rehashing a lot of old info, bringing little new to the picture. It’s too chic to bash the Bucs right now. Move along. Nothing new this week to merit a front page story.

    • BucNY

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      Post count: 111

      Quiters quit and winners find a way. Complaining about being treated like kids when your actions suggest you be. Schiano’s time is done here and I can say I’m no longer against it. Schiano learned a lesson the hard way, the belicheck way. Being strict and demanding of your players is seen as trying to pull the best out of them, when your winning. When you lose it’s seen as what is listed above.I've never buy the setiment that is throw around here that they were treated like kids. It's been proven oh so many times every year, every month, hell, every week that many players in this league are not responsible or self accountable. We're men, we're professionals they say, as they order alcohol by room service the night before a game.Andy Reid ran one of the most difficult camps in recent years, especially with new CBA rules. Full pads, tackling at every possible moment. A close friend of mine who is a chiefs fan was irrate all pre-season about it. He's winning and he's a savior, he loses and he's Schiano. It is what it is. The players need to be strict, the quiters will quit and the true professonals like Vjax will do great.

    • jerseybucsfan

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      Post count: 551

      Quiters quit and winners find a way. Complaining about being treated like kids when your actions suggest you be. Schiano's time is done here and I can say I'm no longer against it. Schiano learned a lesson the hard way, the belicheck way. Being strict and demanding of your players is seen as trying to pull the best out of them, when your winning. When you lose it's seen as what is listed above.I've never buy the setiment that is throw around here that they were treated like kids. It's been proven oh so many times every year, every month, hell, every week that many players in this league are not responsible or self accountable. We're men, we're professionals they say, as they order alcohol by room service the night before a game.Andy Reid ran one of the most difficult camps in recent years, especially with new CBA rules. Full pads, tackling at every possible moment. A close friend of mine who is a chiefs fan was irrate all pre-season about it. He's winning and he's a savior, he loses and he's Schiano. It is what it is. The players need to be strict, the quiters will quit and the true professonals like Vjax will do great.

      Agree with your basic premise, but Schiano is 10x the jerk Reid is. He’s on another level there.

    • VA_Buc30

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      Post count: 39

      “Wilson was eventually cut from the team in 2012 and said he’s finished playing football, in part, because of his experiences with Schiano.”Schiano turned out to be the wrong coach, and has his issues, but there is no way I'm believing that E.J. Wilson's NFL career is over because of the way Schiano treated him.  Please....

    • MarineBuc

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      Post count: 238

      Wilson and Roberson??? Really? Is that all ESPN can come up with???She is as bad as fennelly

    • mgchat76

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      Post count: 391

      Would rather ESPN focused on the x and o’s like Steve White’s great article, but they don’t think the masses could handle it.

    • JDouble

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      Post count: 116

      The masses do prefer this inda of crap over X’s and O’s…..just sayin.

    • Feel Real Good

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      Post count: 59

      Everyone can say the players need to suck it up and be men, but something that really stuck out to me from the A Football Life: Warren Sapp the other night is when Sapp talked about when Gruden got hired, he just smiled and emphasized how much FUN it was to play for Gruden. The good coaches can drive you hard but still make you feel like you’re having fun and it comes out in your play. From all these articles we keep reading, it seems like Schiano has sucked the fun out of playing a kid’s game. That’s not how you do it.

    • Skull and Bones

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      Post count: 213

      No .  Theyre just puzzies like what Sparky said.

    • mgchat76

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      Post count: 391

      No .  Theyre just puzzies like what Sparky said.

      Do you think that the Bucs have significantly more puzzies than other teams?  Since Michael Bennett likes the way Carroll coaches, that must mean that the Seahawks have a team full of puzzies.  Seems to be working out for them.  At some point the coach has to adapt his style to get the most out of his players.  It's all really a moot point, because Schiano and the rest of the coaching staff don't understand how to put their players in the best position on the field to succeed.  It all starts there, and they have failed miserably.

    • Feel Real Good

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      Post count: 59

      No .  Theyre just puzzies like what Sparky said.

      Do you think that the Bucs have significantly more puzzies than other teams?  Since Michael Bennett likes the way Carroll coaches, that must mean that the Seahawks have a team full of puzzies.  Seems to be working out for them.  At some point the coach has to adapt his style to get the most out of his players.  It's all really a moot point, because Schiano and the rest of the coaching staff don't understand how to put their players in the best position on the field to succeed.  It all starts there, and they have failed miserably.

      If you read the Red Board, it's better to be tough and lose like the Bucs than be puzzies and win like other teams.

    • JDouble

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      Post count: 116

      Everyone can say the players need to suck it up and be men, but something that really stuck out to me from the A Football Life: Warren Sapp the other night is when Sapp talked about when Gruden got hired, he just smiled and emphasized how much FUN it was to play for Gruden. The good coaches can drive you hard but still make you feel like you're having fun and it comes out in your play. From all these articles we keep reading, it seems like Schiano has sucked the fun out of playing a kid's game. That's not how you do it.

      I agree. These guys aren't just losing every week. They aren't enjoying the game. They aren't loving the game of football. When guys start looking at it as a required duty, as work, as something they dread....rather than an opportunity to do the thing they love everyday, then guys stop spending extra time at the facility. They are excited to go home instead of being excited to go to work. They do just enough and no more. That is no way to find success in the NFL or in any business. The big difference between the NFL and other business, is that these guys are under contract. When they recognize that the leadership sucks and they are doomed, they can't just turn in their two weeks notice and go work somewhere else. They have to stay and deal with the idiocy and do it with a smile.

    • JDouble

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      Post count: 116

      One thing I did/do love about Chucky was that he absolutely loved the game of football. He was/is obsessed with it and I’ve never seen anyone get more excited just talking about it. The guy eats, sleeps, and sh!ts football and it shows. His love for the game was infectious. The entire team emulated it and you could see they were a tight knit group of players that were really enjoying the game of football.Schiano is a drill instructor. He makes everything into a dreary regiment. I know he loves being in charge, but I'm not sure he loves the game of football. He certainly doesn't seem to get excited about football or even talk about it much. He is more interested in keeping toes on the line, keeping the temperature right, having the correct amount of water breaks in practice, eating the correct meals at the correct time, and basically having complete control over grown men as if they were 18 year college kids. A good coach has a way of getting the most out of his players, but Schiano seems like he just wants to force his players to be robots. It's not hard to imagine why so many guys don't enjoy the Schiano experience. I sure as fuck would not.

    • warrenfb12

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      Post count: 549

      Ya all the player complaining is making me sympathize with him

    • buchead

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      Post count: 5

      I have to say I am getting rather sick of these articles.  Frankly I am happy disliking Rutgers for his wrong approach to Sundays but a lot of this stuff actually makes me a bit sympathetic to him.the moron player saying if he's thirsty he will drink.  No dude, you do actually need to be hydrating all along the way not just once you get thirsty.  Have to also say that draconian rules about hats inside don't spill much beer on my table. The oddity is that in a concern for hydration you then run these 110 yard gassers and run them a lot of times. All coaches skate really close to the practice rules about contact and plenty of other teams have been cited for violating those rules. Oh and obviously cutting Freeman remains the best thing he's done.

      I think the player used a bad example when he brought up the water. The over all point is the coach is to controlling and spends to much time on things that don't equate to wins. Like no hats in the meeting room or whatever. Is that a big deal? No. But when you're losing abd your coaching staff is worried about hats and a precise room temperature it's frustrating to say the least. Say you worked at McDonald's and no customers were getting served and the line was backed up. Imagine you're boss walking around demanding that shirts be tucked in, shoes be tied etc. Its like really? A lobby full of angry customers and you're in my face about my shirt being tucked in? Same thing with Greg. Why are you wasting time on players wearing hats and he hasn't won a game he shouldn't even notice hats.

    • BucFanHudson32

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      Post count: 23

      I can’t believe anyone outside of being a Giant,Patriot or Cowboys fan would watch a news organization owned by Disney…why would you do it??  Just my two pennies.

    • Biff Barker

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      Post count: 6

      Schiano inherited a crappy roster with a piss poor record and locker room attitude.Rah didn't have enough rules,  Schiano has too many. Despite some malcontents being jettisoned in favor of rooks high price FA's, we still have is a core of individuals who are resistant to both leadership and authority. Since we've had dreadful losing skids the last three seasons so let's not turn a blind eye to the roster itself.

    • BucManDan

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      Post count: 3

      I have to say I am getting rather sick of these articles.  Frankly I am happy disliking Rutgers for his wrong approach to Sundays but a lot of this stuff actually makes me a bit sympathetic to him.the moron player saying if he's thirsty he will drink.  No dude, you do actually need to be hydrating all along the way not just once you get thirsty.  Have to also say that draconian rules about hats inside don't spill much beer on my table. The oddity is that in a concern for hydration you then run these 110 yard gassers and run them a lot of times. All coaches skate really close to the practice rules about contact and plenty of other teams have been cited for violating those rules. Oh and obviously cutting Freeman remains the best thing he's done.

      I think the player used a bad example when he brought up the water. The over all point is the coach is to controlling and spends to much time on things that don't equate to wins. Like no hats in the meeting room or whatever. Is that a big deal? No. But when you're losing abd your coaching staff is worried about hats and a precise room temperature it's frustrating to say the least. Say you worked at McDonald's and no customers were getting served and the line was backed up. Imagine you're boss walking around demanding that shirts be tucked in, shoes be tied etc. Its like really? A lobby full of angry customers and you're in my face about my shirt being tucked in? Same thing with Greg. Why are you wasting time on players wearing hats and he hasn't won a game he shouldn't even notice hats.

      Well said.

    • fanofkit

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      Post count: 418

      I have to say I am getting rather sick of these articles.  Frankly I am happy disliking Rutgers for his wrong approach to Sundays but a lot of this stuff actually makes me a bit sympathetic to him.the moron player saying if he's thirsty he will drink.  No dude, you do actually need to be hydrating all along the way not just once you get thirsty.  Have to also say that draconian rules about hats inside don't spill much beer on my table. The oddity is that in a concern for hydration you then run these 110 yard gassers and run them a lot of times. All coaches skate really close to the practice rules about contact and plenty of other teams have been cited for violating those rules. Oh and obviously cutting Freeman remains the best thing he's done.

      I think the player used a bad example when he brought up the water. The over all point is the coach is to controlling and spends to much time on things that don't equate to wins. Like no hats in the meeting room or whatever. Is that a big deal? No. But when you're losing abd your coaching staff is worried about hats and a precise room temperature it's frustrating to say the least. Say you worked at McDonald's and no customers were getting served and the line was backed up. Imagine you're boss walking around demanding that shirts be tucked in, shoes be tied etc. Its like really? A lobby full of angry customers and you're in my face about my shirt being tucked in? Same thing with Greg. Why are you wasting time on players wearing hats and he hasn't won a game he shouldn't even notice hats.

      I actually don't have a problem with the authoritative approach, and I don't know that most players worth having will either.  It think we are doing a disservice to young men when we say that today's players can't or won't respond to that environment.  There needs to be a baseline of professionalism laid out for a roster, especially a young roster that had just been through the Wild West era of Raheem, when there was such a lax environment.  As a coach, it is always possible to ease up on the team once you have been established as a disciplinarian, but seldom is a coach taken seriously when they start as a player's coach with lax oversight and try to get tougher.  Some of Schiano's obsessions are head scratchers, like temperature control and pasta demands, but for guys complaining about a no hats policy in meetings is silly.  If guys jump to the "we're adult men" argument about things like that, I would hope that adult men can go without a stylish hat for a couple of hours at work.That said, the coaching staff needs to be competent enough in their game planning and strategic approach to assure the players that all of that discipline is worthwhile.  A. Competent field commander can demand men wear helmets at all times or toe the line, but not a substandard tactician.  Here is where I think he might have lost the battle.  The coordinators and staff may not be, in the eyes of the roster, competent enough to merit Schiano's kind of demands.  That respect needed to enforce those kinds of rules must be earned and I am afraid that Schiano doesn't have the skill,charisma or resume to command it.  After all, Dan Marino could get away with cursing and yelling at his Oline for a missed block, but Dan Orlovsky would probably get his butt kicked for saying the things Marino said.It doesn't help, that I think this roster may lack much in the way of true leadership.  the veteran presence in the locker room is a lot of off beat personalities.  Penn isn't your stereotypical leader, and neither is McCoy or Revis in my opinion.  There doesn't seem to be a lot of "steady the ship" types on the team.All that said, I want to be clear- I am NOT pro-Schiano.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 213

      I have to say I am getting rather sick of these articles.  Frankly I am happy disliking Rutgers for his wrong approach to Sundays but a lot of this stuff actually makes me a bit sympathetic to him.the moron player saying if he's thirsty he will drink.  No dude, you do actually need to be hydrating all along the way not just once you get thirsty.  Have to also say that draconian rules about hats inside don't spill much beer on my table. The oddity is that in a concern for hydration you then run these 110 yard gassers and run them a lot of times. All coaches skate really close to the practice rules about contact and plenty of other teams have been cited for violating those rules. Oh and obviously cutting Freeman remains the best thing he's done.

      I think the player used a bad example when he brought up the water. The over all point is the coach is to controlling and spends to much time on things that don't equate to wins. Like no hats in the meeting room or whatever. Is that a big deal? No. But when you're losing abd your coaching staff is worried about hats and a precise room temperature it's frustrating to say the least. Say you worked at McDonald's and no customers were getting served and the line was backed up. Imagine you're boss walking around demanding that shirts be tucked in, shoes be tied etc. Its like really? A lobby full of angry customers and you're in my face about my shirt being tucked in? Same thing with Greg. Why are you wasting time on players wearing hats and he hasn't won a game he shouldn't even notice hats.

      I actually don't have a problem with the authoritative approach, and I don't know that most players worth having will either.  It think we are doing a disservice to young men when we say that today's players can't or won't respond to that environment.  There needs to be a baseline of professionalism laid out for a roster, especially a young roster that had just been through the Wild West era of Raheem, when there was such a lax environment.  As a coach, it is always possible to ease up on the team once you have been established as a disciplinarian, but seldom is a coach taken seriously when they start as a player's coach with lax oversight and try to get tougher.  Some of Schiano's obsessions are head scratchers, like temperature control and pasta demands, but for guys complaining about a no hats policy in meetings is silly.  If guys jump to the "we're adult men" argument about things like that, I would hope that adult men can go without a stylish hat for a couple of hours at work.That said, the coaching staff needs to be competent enough in their game planning and strategic approach to assure the players that all of that discipline is worthwhile.  A. Competent field commander can demand men wear helmets at all times or toe the line, but not a substandard tactician.  Here is where I think he might have lost the battle.  The coordinators and staff may not be, in the eyes of the roster, competent enough to merit Schiano's kind of demands.  That respect needed to enforce those kinds of rules must be earned and I am afraid that Schiano doesn't have the skill,charisma or resume to command it.  After all, Dan Marino could get away with cursing and yelling at his Oline for a missed block, but Dan Orlovsky would probably get his butt kicked for saying the things Marino said.It doesn't help, that I think this roster may lack much in the way of true leadership.  the veteran presence in the locker room is a lot of off beat personalities.  Penn isn't your stereotypical leader, and neither is McCoy or Revis in my opinion.  There doesn't seem to be a lot of "steady the ship" types on the team.All that said, I want to be clear- I am NOT pro-Schiano.

      All good points made here. The one thing that ironic is the part bolded - Dom has made it a point especially with the draft to bring in guys that have captaincy in their background. At present, it appears Dashon Goldson and Vincent Jackson have taken on the roles as leaders of their respective units so I wouldn't say they are entirely without good leadership but they can only do so much within an overly-confined atmosphere.

    • DailyRich68

      Participant
      Post count: 3

      ” If I’m not thirsty, I’m not going to drink water.”

      Sometimes if you wait until you're thirsty, it's already too late.

    • gone

      Participant
      Post count: 78

      Schiano was supposed to lighten up this year.  Early on I thought we heard that he did, but apparently that was not accurate.  Or a lot of these complaints are really more focused on last year combined with the losing of this year, which is a reasonable possiblity.  We’re never going to know for certain though.  We were talking about this last year, the need for him to lighten up and change, Coughlin went through a similar thing before the team won their first Lombardi.And while everyone here is happy to jump on board reading more and more into these things, you have to dial back and realize that these stories -- whether about us or another team-- are what draws in the readers -- and therefore the dollars and careers of the writers -- for the outlets that publish them.  You should be skeptical of whether the scope and interpretation of these events and claims are as portrayed.  The more legs readers give these stories, the more damage they do -- and they are doing damage.  And as much pleasure as that gives to those who's hatred has overwhelmed their judgement, and as mucha s we will be better off with the higher pick at this point, you have to realize that the damage being done will linger on more than just this season.  Raheem left this team predissposed to quit, we don't need that reinforced with the current and new players.  We already saw a QB quit, do we really want the next coach to have to inherit a bunch of quitters again?

    • JDouble

      Participant
      Post count: 116

      It never stopped. It’s just who he is. All our QBs will where knee braces! We will always rush the kneel down! Everyone eats a mandatory meal at halftime! We will continue to drop our D-line into coverage and run futile stunts every single week! He wants everything done his way and can’t even change things up to utilize his best players. Instead he just wants everyone to fit into the same mold and do what his feeble little mind deems best. Refuses to make halftime adjustments. Dude is just a clown.

    • DanTurksGhost

      Participant
      Post count: 292

      We suck in the second half because during halftime all the players are loading up on bratwursts and potato salad and all the ice cream sundaes you can eat.

    • dbucfan

      Participant
      Post count: 82

      We suck in the second half because during halftime all the players are loading up on bratwursts and potato salad and all the ice cream sundaes you can eat.

      Sounds like they need to keep the guys out of the parking lot –  ;)

    • Anonymous

      Guest
      Post count: 6

      " If I'm not thirsty, I'm not going to drink water."

      Sometimes if you wait until you're thirsty, it's already too late.

    • Benchwarmer#1

      Participant
      Post count: 39

      That’s BS how he treated Wilson. Basically took the love of the game from him.Schiano is possibly the worst coach in the NFL ever.

    • Bucfucious

      Participant
      Post count: 8

      Sounds more like candy ass Wilson searching for an excuse.

    • Mark Cook

      Participant
      Post count: 2419

      One thing I did/do love about Chucky was that he absolutely loved the game of football. He was/is obsessed with it and I've never seen anyone get more excited just talking about it. The guy eats, sleeps, and sh!ts football and it shows. His love for the game was infectious. The entire team emulated it and you could see they were a tight knit group of players that were really enjoying the game of football.Schiano is a drill instructor. He makes everything into a dreary regiment. I know he loves being in charge, but I'm not sure he loves the game of football. He certainly doesn't seem to get excited about football or even talk about it much. He is more interested in keeping toes on the line, keeping the temperature right, having the correct amount of water breaks in practice, eating the correct meals at the correct time, and basically having complete control over grown men as if they were 18 year college kids. A good coach has a way of getting the most out of his players, but Schiano seems like he just wants to force his players to be robots. It's not hard to imagine why so many guys don't enjoy the Schiano experience. I sure as **CENSORED** would not.

      JDoub I get why you would think that, and I think Schiano has not done a very good job of trying to change that perception, but I can tell you he loves football. Maybe even too much. Part of his problem may be he doesn't understand why every single guy on the roster doesn't love it as much as HE does. Again, I can assure you without question this guy is obsessed about the game. I make no excuses for the results, but I promise the guy does love football. Every single aspect of it.

    • JDouble

      Participant
      Post count: 116

      One thing I did/do love about Chucky was that he absolutely loved the game of football. He was/is obsessed with it and I've never seen anyone get more excited just talking about it. The guy eats, sleeps, and sh!ts football and it shows. His love for the game was infectious. The entire team emulated it and you could see they were a tight knit group of players that were really enjoying the game of football.Schiano is a drill instructor. He makes everything into a dreary regiment. I know he loves being in charge, but I'm not sure he loves the game of football. He certainly doesn't seem to get excited about football or even talk about it much. He is more interested in keeping toes on the line, keeping the temperature right, having the correct amount of water breaks in practice, eating the correct meals at the correct time, and basically having complete control over grown men as if they were 18 year college kids. A good coach has a way of getting the most out of his players, but Schiano seems like he just wants to force his players to be robots. It's not hard to imagine why so many guys don't enjoy the Schiano experience. I sure as **CENSORED** would not.

      JDoub I get why you would think that, and I think Schiano has not done a very good job of trying to change that perception, but I can tell you he loves football. Maybe even too much. Part of his problem may be he doesn't understand why every single guy on the roster doesn't love it as much as HE does. Again, I can assure you without question this guy is obsessed about the game. I make no excuses for the results, but I promise the guy does love football. Every single aspect of it.

      Thanks for the post MC. I believe you. It just seems like he sees the game one way, his way, and he is all about crushing the will of his players, breaking them down, and then rebuilding them up in the mold he wants. That might have some success at the college level when you are dealing with high school kids still dealing with puberty, but I don't think that approach works in the NFL and I don't think it is an enjoyable management approach at any level or any business. I think the great NFL coaches wear many hats, but the most important is teacher. Unfortunately Schiano seems like more of an egotistical drill sargent than a teacher that knows how to truly reach his students. 

    • MarineBuc

      Participant
      Post count: 238

      Sounds more like candy ass Wilson searching for an excuse.

      I agree.These players wanted to treated like men and wear their earrings wherever they want...haha...now thats funnyAnyway, the hats, shirts tucked in, and other rules serve a purpose if people would look at the forest through the trees. These are rules...little rules...small things...if you can get players to pay attention to the small things and pay attention to every detail, the belief is that they will do that in everything they do...not just in football, but in life as well. That goes for the coaches as well...they need to pay attention to every single detail...and I think the hardest part if finding a happy balance. Obviously...we are failing at that right now

    • Mark Cook

      Participant
      Post count: 2419

      One thing I did/do love about Chucky was that he absolutely loved the game of football. He was/is obsessed with it and I've never seen anyone get more excited just talking about it. The guy eats, sleeps, and sh!ts football and it shows. His love for the game was infectious. The entire team emulated it and you could see they were a tight knit group of players that were really enjoying the game of football.Schiano is a drill instructor. He makes everything into a dreary regiment. I know he loves being in charge, but I'm not sure he loves the game of football. He certainly doesn't seem to get excited about football or even talk about it much. He is more interested in keeping toes on the line, keeping the temperature right, having the correct amount of water breaks in practice, eating the correct meals at the correct time, and basically having complete control over grown men as if they were 18 year college kids. A good coach has a way of getting the most out of his players, but Schiano seems like he just wants to force his players to be robots. It's not hard to imagine why so many guys don't enjoy the Schiano experience. I sure as **CENSORED** would not.

      JDoub I get why you would think that, and I think Schiano has not done a very good job of trying to change that perception, but I can tell you he loves football. Maybe even too much. Part of his problem may be he doesn't understand why every single guy on the roster doesn't love it as much as HE does. Again, I can assure you without question this guy is obsessed about the game. I make no excuses for the results, but I promise the guy does love football. Every single aspect of it.

      Thanks for the post MC. I believe you. It just seems like he sees the game one way, his way, and he is all about crushing the will of his players, breaking them down, and then rebuilding them up in the mold he wants. That might have some success at the college level when you are dealing with high school kids still dealing with puberty, but I don't think that approach works in the NFL and I don't think it is an enjoyable management approach at any level or any business. I think the great NFL coaches wear many hats, but the most important is teacher. Unfortunately Schiano seems like more of an egotistical drill sargent than a teacher that knows how to truly reach his students.

      I believe he is seeing the error in some of his ways. Much looser team this week. Everyone noticed it, but is it too little too late? it is easy to pile on coach and I am by no means absolving him from the 0-7 record. But I will say the players themselves do bear some responsibility (No. 5, No. 5 No. 5!!!!) also, along with the assistants and even the front office. But ultimately he is responsible for the overall wins and losses. They must win and do it soon if he stands a chance of keeping his job. And if he can SR and I will the first to rally behind him, as I know a lot of the fan base will as well. Drill Sargent, pain the ass, tyrant, misunderstood, a real leader, whatever he is, if can win, it is all good. Winning cures all.The fans and the community deserve it.

    • Feel Real Good

      Participant
      Post count: 59

      Sounds more like candy ass Wilson searching for an excuse.

      I agree.These players wanted to treated like men and wear their earrings wherever they want...haha...now thats funnyAnyway, the hats, shirts tucked in, and other rules serve a purpose if people would look at the forest through the trees. These are rules...little rules...small things...if you can get players to pay attention to the small things and pay attention to every detail, the belief is that they will do that in everything they do...not just in football, but in life as well. That goes for the coaches as well...they need to pay attention to every single detail...and I think the hardest part if finding a happy balance. Obviously...we are failing at that right now

      If you read the Red Board, it's better to be tough and lose like the Bucs than be puzzies and win like other teams.

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