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    • Mrshowstopper

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      Post count: 145

      Here are some scenarios I was chatting with my friend about and while particulars would need to be worked out, this is just a hypothetical situation if we get a season…

      1) allowing unlimited roster spots this year (if a dlineman Gets COVID and the other 4 are quarantined, they will have to bring in others anyway, why not have that ban on only 53 allowed to be unlimited)
      2) piggy backing off above. Waive the salary cap for this year only and allow these moves to take place.
      3) with no fans in the stands and worrying about players together in the locker room, what about the parking area that would normally be for fan parking, set up tents or portables and let players change/dress solo in one of those?

      4) halftime adjustments could be made on a zoom meeting/ or whatever they’re using now. Have assistants have these meetings ready to go for when players/coaches come into these respective areas mentioned in 3.

      Just some thoughts to how this could work. Not ideal, but none of this stuff is

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    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 395

      Unless things radically settle from where they’re headed right now, there’s no way the NFL can responsibly play this year. The locker rooms are a spreading nightmare. Older coaches are vulnerable. This shit isn’t just going away. Unless players are quarantined for the entire season, their families are put at risk.

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    • Hockey Duckie

      Participant
      Post count: 1317

      It’s a virus. We have no vaccine. It’s inevitable the virus will reach all areas. All we’re doing is slowing down the hospitalization capacity and the ventilator availability.

      Welp, we’ve been building ventilators and are still building them as we send them out to the world to help them out. As for hospitalizations, I’m surprised the state government hasn’t figured out where the hot spots are (usually metropolis areas) and have contingency areas on the ready. It’s July and we’re worried about hospitalization capacity? WTF?!

      Now, looking at stats, we’ll focus on the death rates because those are the mortal ones. Infection rates don’t mean much since it’s been recorded that many are asymptomatic, but are carriers. Plus, we’re testing more people now than when it first started because we’re producing more testing kits. Obviously, the infection rates will be higher with more testing, but that’s not as important as the death rates, hospitalization capacity, and ventilator availability.

      The death rates affect those 65+. Here’s info from the CDC site on COVID-19 deaths by age:

      Total COVID-19 Deaths, as per CDC Jun 27, 2020: 112,226

        Ages 0-14: 29 (0.02%)
        Ages 15-24: 142 (0.12%)
        Ages 25-34: 770 (0.68%)
        Ages 35-44: 1,972 (1.75%)
        Ages 45-54: 5,488 (4.89%)
        Ages 55-64: 13,465 (11.9%)
        Ages 65-74: 23,333 (20.7%)
        Ages 75-84: 29,780 (26.5%)
        Ages 85+: 37,247 (33.1%)

      Football players would fit into two ages of 15-24 and 25-34. The death rates for the sum of that group of ages is under 1% (specifically 0.80%). Athletes usually are at the healthiest of their sub-groups and if they’re part of some organized sport (college or pro), then they will also have a more direct access to appropriate health care.

      Double digit death rates start appearing at age 55 and the death rate continues to rise the older the subset of ages.

      Death rate for ages 15-34 = 0.80%
      Death rate for ages 55+ = 92.2%

      What would be RADICAL would be using the most recent information we know to help guide us.

      Worldometers online site has today’s COVID-19 cases and death rates. Today is July 2, 2020. Here are the top-5 states with COVID-19 cases and their respective COVID-19 deaths.

      Top-5 States with COVID-19 cases

        1. NY: 419,369 cases; 32,165 deaths; mortality rate = 7.66%
        2. CA: 239,165 cases; 6,168 deaths; mortality rate = 2.57%
        3. NJ: 177,245 cases; 15,242 deaths; mortality rate = 8.59%
        4. TX: 175,509 cases; 2,541 deaths; mortality rate = 1.44%
        5. FL: 169,106 cases; 3,618 deaths; mortality rate = 2.13%

      We know that NY put elderly COVID-19 patients back into nursing facilities that could did not have separate areas for the positive tested patients despite having Mercy Hospital ship mostly empty in NYC and Gov. Cuomo had hundreds of unopened ventilators stockpiled in a warehouse while begging for 100,000 more.

      Now, let’s look at CA and it’s top-6 counties of COVID-19 infections, using California CDC numbers.

      CA CDC top-6 counties with COVID-19 cases and respective death rates (July 1, 2020)

        CA total COVID-19 Cases = 240,195
        1. Los Angeles: 105,325 cases; 3,402 deaths; mortality rate = 3.23%
        2. Riverside: 19,537 cases; 463 deaths; mortality rate = 2.36%
        3. Orange: 15,662 cases; 345 deaths; mortality rate = 2.20%
        4. San Diego: 14,624 cases; 372 deaths; mortality rate = 2.54%
        5. San Bernardino: 12,712 cases; 258 deaths; mortality rate = 2.02%
        6. Imperial: 6,150 cases; 97 deaths; mortality rate = 1.5%

      As you can see, LA county, which has the city of Los Angeles in it, represents 43.8% of the total CA COVID-19 cases as well as the highest death rate of 3.23%. Yet, everywhere else, it’s far lower in infection cases as well as mortality rate.

      The second most infection rate in CA is Riverside, as it represents 8.1% of the total CA COVID-19 cases.

      CA’s governor is making decisions based upon LA county’s numbers and expanding all of his executive decisions to all of California’s 58 counties. Why? Why the fear mongering at this junction after several months of being shut down? Shouldn’t there be hospitalization contingency plans already set up? The death rate isn’t high like the state of NY or NJ.

      CA COVID-19 death rate age breakdown, from CA CDC (July 1, 2020)

        Ages 0-17: 0%
        Ages 18-49: 6%
        Ages 50-64: 17%
        Ages 65+: 78%

      The state death rate age breakdown runs similar to the national death rate age breakdown. (Although, it’s a shame CA CDC clumps ages 18-49 together as it doesn’t help differentiating subgroup of ages for a more proper pattern or possible conclusion of affect.)

      With stats reiterating themselves from national to state level (states not NY or NJ) after several months of recording, we can impose better guidelines that protect the most vulnerable. Doing all these blanket executive orders while not taking into account the recent mass gatherings in close quarters with the protests, riots, looting, and vandalisms due to a rise in infection cases seems more like a scare tactic and fear mongering.

      If there are no fans, then that’s already a huge step with social distancing. All the athletes with families must also start to social distance themselves if they want their breadwinner to continue to bring in the cheddar. Constant testing and sanitizing should be a must for all sports organizations. Locker rooms and gyms must start looking into anti-microbial products to refit their facilities. Yet age 15-34 athletes have a mortality rate of under 1% (or 0.80% specifically).

      Remember, one can test positive for COVID-19 and be asymptomatic. That information is often lost in the pandemic. The young must test often to know when to avoid the elderly.

      Facts are fun. Facts are also useful when utilized. It’s sad that emotions reign supreme over facts.

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    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3361

      Yes for increasing roster spots, because 1) if anybody tests positive for Covid they are out a couple weeks regardless of if they are seriously ill or not. 2) It allows teams to carry more guys who may need some seasoning, so they don’t have to jettison them when they may be able to contribute to the team down the road.

      As for getting rid of the cap, that ain’t gonna happen. Obviously they’ll have to do something regarding the cap if they are going to allow for more roster spots, but it won’t be just throwing it out. Wouldn’t that make for some crazy baseball style midseason salary dumping trades? Do we want that in football where the rich teams can poach the high priced players from the non-contenders down the stretch? As a Rays fan that’s always frustrating to see the Yankees be able to stock up for a playoff run because they have basically no budget. I don’t want to see that type of thing in football.

      As for the parking lot, I read or saw somebody commenting to the affect that if they have no fans in the stadium, fans will congregate in the parking lot. If you block off the parking lot, fans will go to the next nearest place to hang out such as parking lots and sidestreets. So you might as well try to figure out something for the fans, social distancing tailgating or something.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      Remember that goon who said hydroxychloriquine (sp) was a cure?

      Good grief.

      A side note: Pfizer is having positive clinical runs with their attempt at a vaccine…it would be a miracle. The sample size has to exponentially increase.

      The best way to slow it down is to shut it down for a few weeks. Absolute total shutdown with mandatory quarantine for everyone for a month. It’s not ideal but it is the only effective way to ha for this.

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    • kenntak

      Participant
      Post count: 1094

      @X that should have been done before, but it was not adequately followed nationwide. It can’t be done now, with some government leaders saying a lockdown will not be implemented, and people praising lower hospitalizations and death rates; and downplaying the massive increase in infections. If people could not respect the lockdown, could you expect them to adequately protect the vulnerable (which is an amorphous term anyway)? I think the answer is an unfortunate “no.”

      These numbers (case peaks and cases yesterday) are disappointing for the US:

      Spain: March 25 — 9,600 cases
      July 1 — 388 cases

      Italy: March 21 — 6,600 cases
      July 1 — 182 cases

      France: April 12 — 26,800 cases
      July 1 — 918 cases

      Germany: April 2 — 6,900 cases
      July 1 — 475 cases

      UK: April 10 — 8,700 cases
      July 1 — 832 cases

      Canada: April 5 — 2,800 cases
      July 1 — 191 cases

      USA: June 1 — 17,400 cases
      July 1 — 50,900 cases (the highest yet)

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    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 395

      Given the spiking case counts right now, we’re looking at some scary numbers of deaths being reported as these cases evolve over the next 3-5 weeks, right about the time training camps are getting going. If we’re seeing 2-3000 deaths per day or more at that point, will that scare the NFL out of moving forward? Certainly they can’t expect fans to attend games with that happening.

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    • Hockey Duckie

      Participant
      Post count: 1317

      @buccaneerNW wrote:

      Given the spiking case counts right now, we’re looking at some scary numbers of deaths being reported as these cases evolve over the next 3-5 weeks, right about the time training camps are getting going. If we’re seeing 2-3000 deaths per day or more at that point, will that scare the NFL out of moving forward? Certainly they can’t expect fans to attend games with that happening.

      Wow. It’s like you didn’t even read the recent CDC’s national cases to death rate that I just posted.

      With several months under COVID-19, we’ve identified patterns in death rate. We’ve also identified several people are asymptomatic.

      Testing positive for COVID-19 doesn’t mean you’re dead. It all depends on your age as well as other underlying conditions that already is compromising your health. Also, just because some people belong to the lower level mortality rate doesn’t mean you can ignore all the safety guidelines to help protect all.

      Stop fear mongering people because you’re just spreading projections based off of no facts! The post I shared covered dates from Feb 1, 2020 to Jun 27, 2020. We already know how to reduce the mortality rate by protecting the elderly and those with compromised health as well as not to put COVID-19 positive patients into nursing homes (NY, I’m looking at you!).

      I truly don’t understand people who can’t read nor understand facts.

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    • Hockey Duckie

      Participant
      Post count: 1317

      @dyt wrote:

      Remember that goon who said hydroxychloriquine (sp) was a cure?

      Please do share the exact quote with sources that said hydroxychloroquine “was a cure”? Don’t turtle away or make implications. Your statement says “was a cure” meaning it was determined it is a cure, not a possible avenue for a cure, but an actual cure.

      smh to headline readers.

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    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 395

      [quote quote=1294425]I truly don’t understand people who can’t read nor understand facts.[/quote]

      I understand facts. Even at the current lower death rate, when you apply that to 50K+ new cases per day, there’s a virtual guarantee the number of deaths will be a lot higher, probably up to 2K+ per day, even with the improved interventions.

      But no, I didn’t read your post. I don’t read every post. I read the topic and the initial post.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      It was Island Bucs. I read the thread, again. I even mentioned the VA saying it was bullshit, and he came back with some hullabaloo. People, including the president, were lauding hydroxychloriquine. Idiots. He has vested interest in that drug. Of course he would pimp it. He’s a businessman, not an effective leader. [postquote quote=1294426]

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    • Hockey Duckie

      Participant
      Post count: 1317

      @dyt wrote:

      The best way to slow it down is to shut it down for a few weeks. Absolute total shutdown with mandatory quarantine for everyone for a month. It’s not ideal but it is the only effective way to ha for this.

      Been there, done that. It worked too.

      So what happened recently? Lots of mass protests and partial openings. I’d say the mass protest did more to be part of the rise of the positive cases. Before COVID-19 hit the US, it was all over Europe. In Spain, they told everyone not to participate in a women’s protest due to the then unknown virus. Weeks later, Spain’s cases spiked.

      We ride this out, but we also need to know the places these new cases came from. I know some states will not ask nowadays so as to not identify it could be due to the protest, which is medical malpractice.

      Why do we ride this out? Because we should have already prepared for a 2nd wave with new hospital beds and ventilators. I know CA tore down three massive moving hospitals with ventilators several years ago to save pennies for the CA government. Between Feb to July, shouldn’t states have created at least one moving hospital by now? Also, we know who are the most vulnerable.

      Anyhow, it sucks that governments allowed certain mass protests, but condemn other types of protests. The inequality of implementation is what is skewing the cases today.

      Remember, we can’t stop the virus. We can’t stop people from getting pneumonia 100% today. We’re simply trying to slow the process down to not overburden the medical field as well as run out of ventilators. We’re better prepared now (although we aren’t as prepared as I’d like to be) than when it first hit. At many establishments, they have head reading thermometers. At hospitals, they have a whole body scanner. We also know to wear masks now that we discovered that Dr. Fauci lied to all of America about masks.


      @kenntak

      I know the US is one of the countries that continues to take tests as well as increase the volume of tests. Some countries stopped testing like China. Some countries only test you if you show severe symptoms.

      Also, did any of those countries also have nationwide protests for weeks? We’re still protesting in the US.

      I expect cases to rise due to more testing, but people going out en masse, walking shoulder to shoulder is crazy b/c I saw what transpired with a women’s march in Spain when the virus hit before it was called a pandemic. Remember, people travel to participate in these nationwide protests.

      Just have to rely on the data accumulated, keep testing, keep informing people to stay away from the elderly if have symptoms. Testing positive doesn’t mean you’re dead. That’s what I feel like most people insinuate when they say the cases are rising. Again, we have differences between NY and Fla, with Fla being home to a lot more older people. NY is first in positive cases with 7.6% mortality rate and Fla is fifth in positive cases with 2.13% mortality rate.

      You cite Italy’s positive case rates. I’ll take your word about the stat b/c worldometers doesn’t reflect new cases and you didn’t cite your source. Yet, according to worldometers, there were 34,818 deaths to 240,961 cases, which makes for a mortality rate of 14.4%. I guess you focus more on cases than deaths.

      Anyhow, I marked the top-10 states of COVID-19 cases on May 9, 2020 on my excel program. I just compiled the new set of info for July 2nd from worldometers. The top-10 changed as two of the top-10 dropped lower. But I didn’t change the original top-10 for comparison. So, I’ll share what I found just like you did for other countries, but I’ll trust the US far more for testing than other countries.

      May 9,2020

        USA: 1,347,309 cases; 80,037 deaths; mortality rate = 5.94%
        NY: 343,409 cases; 26,771 deaths; mortality rate = 7.8%
        NJ: 138,579 cases; 9,118 deaths; mortality rate = 6.5%
        Ma: 76,743 cases; 4,840 deaths; mortality rate = 6.3%
        IL: 76,085 cases; 3,349 deaths; mortality rate = 4.4%
        CA: 66,687 cases; 2,691 deaths; mortality rate = 4.0%
        PA: 58,686 cases; 3,798 deaths; mortality rate = 6.4%
        MI: 46,756 cases; 4,526 deaths; mortality rate = 9.6%
        FL: 40,001 cases; 1,716 deaths; mortality rate = 4.2%
        TX: 38,642 cases; 1,111 deaths; mortality rate = 2.8%
        CT: 32,984 cases; 2,932 deaths; mortality rate = 8.8%

      Jul 2,2020

        USA: 2,837,189 cases; 131,485 deaths; mortality rate = 4.63%
        NY: 419,640 cases; 32,166 deaths; mortality rate = 7.6%
        NJ: 177,654 cases; 15,218 deaths; mortality rate = 8.5%
        Ma: 109,338 cases; 8,132 deaths; mortality rate = 7.4%
        IL: 145,935 cases; 7,188 deaths; mortality rate = 4.9%
        CA: 247,743 cases; 6,262 deaths; mortality rate = 2.5%
        PA: 92,703 cases; 6,765 deaths; mortality rate = 7.3%
        MI: 71,678 cases; 6,212 deaths; mortality rate = 8.6%
        FL: 163,106 cases; 3,618 deaths; mortality rate = 2.2%
        TX: 183,044 cases; 2,585 deaths; mortality rate = 1.4%
        CT: 46,646 cases; 4,326 deaths; mortality rate = 9.2%

      You can enter all that data onto excel and do a differential as proof for the following:

      Ca, Fla, and Tx had over massive increases in COVID-19 cases, but each state dropped in mortality rate. The range of May 9 to Jul 2 has a mortality rate of 1.97% for CA, 1.55% for Fla, and 1.02% for Tx.

      NJ, Mass, and Conn have dropped in COVID-19 cases, but increased in mortality rate by 10% or more!

      NY dropped in COVID-19 cases and barely dropped in mortality rate, still high at 7.08%.

      The US COVID-19 cases increased by 9.5%, but death rate dropped 2.49% between May 9 to Jul 2 from May 9th.

      Increase in cases doesn’t mean increase in death rate. So why shut down everything again for weeks on end? Can we or can we not deduce certain things after all these months? Why aren’t you or X condemning all the close knit, massive protests who aren’t practicing social distancing or wearing masks?

      Oh… here’s a CDC weekly pdf report link.

      Jun 21-27

        Tested = 1,873,571
        Tested Positive = 162,750 (8.7% of the tested)

      That one week run similar positive infection rate to about a two month span from May 9 to Jul 2, which was 9.5%.

      The 1.8 million tests in one week represents 3% of Italy’s population. The 1.8 million tests in one week represents 0.5% of the US population. Again, I don’t think any other country is testing like we are.

      We’re the Mike Trout of the COVID-19 testing world. Some countries don’t have the capacity to administer a lot of tests. Some countries don’t even try. The US possesses the talent to create more tests and administer them in a short amount of time. Trout’s fielding gets dinged because he attempts fly balls that 95% of centerfielders cannot because they don’t possess his talents (speed and coordination). Those CF’s who don’t try aren’t dinged because there was no attempt. ::: raising shoulders ::: I’d rather be the Mike Trout in any fashion than an entity that doesn’t want to try like a China.

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    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 395

      COVID also can cause permanent respiratory and neurological damage. This should also be considered alongside deaths. I don’t think they’re measuring such cases, but we know this thing can do some awful shit. The point is, deaths are not the only concerning outcomes. And without quarantining the entire league, playing football is going to spread disease.

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1932

      Hopefully whatever the NFL does is more than another scenario of security theater, but what all can they do? Monitoring player health and limiting or eliminating capacity at stadiums is my guess. Imo the NFL should be leading the charge to help people improve their diet, nutrition, and hydration, which are as important as anything in keeping safe.

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    • RHBucsFan

      Participant
      Post count: 1707

      @hockey duckie with a very nice factual post. People down voting a post with zero opinion and pure fact….losers.

      People are freaking out over cases, all that really matters is mortality rate. I’m not scared of the seasonal flu, but if it were to start killing off people at a high rate you’d better believe I’d be scared of the flu.

      With this second wave we’re currently in, more people will know of friends first hand that have acquired covid and recovered. The fear factor will greatly diminish, but for now it’s still a scary unknown.

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    • RHBucsFan

      Participant
      Post count: 1707

      [postquote quote=1294438]

      Covid is not a disease, it’s a virus.

      Just like the flu is not a disease, it’s a virus. Cancer is a disease.

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    • kenntak

      Participant
      Post count: 1094

      I really hate this site sometimes. I just typed a long response and it was lost (I should have copied before I tried to post).

      For Italy, my source was the Ministero della Salute (Ministry of Health). Their data indicates that 5.5 million people have been swabbed. Italy was the first western country to be hit hard, and the virus unfortunately killed a lot of elderly. They had a fairly strict lockdown, and seemed to follow it pretty well. No, they did not have a protesters problem.

      Hockey said I did not criticize the protesters for not maintaining distance, etc. I have criticized the response of many in the US to the lockdown, and that would include the protesters. Why would I have to point that out specifically?

      Just protecting the elderly is not good enough. Some younger people are vulnerable too. In fact, who determines who is vulnerable? An 11 year-old died in Florida a couple of days ago. No one thought the children under 5 that died were vulnerable. If people can’t respect the lockdown, they won’t respect the vulnerable.

      Hockey posted some good stats. But the most critical stat in games is the final score, and the most critical stat for covid is infection rate. More infections mean more harm to people, more potential hospitalizations, and more potential deaths. Apparently, some people are comforted by a better death rate percentage and less hospitalizations. Not me.

      Here some more stats. Florida had over 10,000 new cases yesterday. There were 341 new hospitalizations in Florida, the worst since the pandemic began. Some hospitals in Florida are suffering staffing shortages. There were also 67 deaths, the highest since May 18. People say the reason for more cases is more testing. However, the percentage of tests being positive has risen from 4% to 16%. According to WHO, anything over 5% is concerning.

      In Arizona, the adult intensive care beds are at 91% capacity, and current hospitalizations rose to a record high of over 3,000.

      I know some people don’t like Fauci, but he indicated that the virus could have mutated to become more transmissible. That would certainly not be good news.

      I have been warning people to take this seriously for months. I often was met with laughter and disdain. I don’t know why I ever bothered. I am not a fearmonger, but I am very disappointed to see the infection rate skyrocketing this late in the game. More people should have listened, and more should have acted more responsibly. At this point, there will be a lot more people harmed and dead than there needed to be.

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    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 395

      [quote quote=1294505]Covid is not a disease, it’s a virus.

      Just like the flu is not a disease, it’s a virus. Cancer is a disease.[/quote]

      Coronavirus disease (COVID-19) is an infectious disease caused by a newly discovered coronavirus.

      1) Hit the link and read.
      2) Shut the fuck up.
      3) Don’t pretend to know something when you don’t.

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    • RHBucsFan

      Participant
      Post count: 1707

      [postquote quote=1294529]

      Well looks like I learned something today. You are right and I was wrong. Well done @buccaneerNW

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    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 395

      [quote quote=1294560]Well looks like I learned something today. You are right and I was wrong. Well done @buccaneerNW[/quote]

      Sorry. I was a little over-the-top there. My mind is harboring a lot of hostility about all the anti-mask, pro-trump, covid-hoax crowd, so that bleeds out a little. Sorry for the hostility.

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    • Hockey Duckie

      Participant
      Post count: 1317

      This just in: Hydroxychloroquine lowers COVID-19 death rate

      The key here is that it is to be administered earlier than the later and far more dangerous stages of COVID-19 positive, symptomatic patients.

      I guess @dyt and media were helping to end more lives unnecessarily by stating an FDA approved drug many decades ago is dangerous and should not be taken. That doesn’t make any sense since it’s already FDA approved with known side effects.

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    • Hockey Duckie

      Participant
      Post count: 1317

      @kenntak wrote:

      For Italy, my source was the Ministero della Salute (Ministry of Health). Their data indicates that 5.5 million people have been swabbed.

      Again, from my sourced data, the US did 1.87 million tests in one week, ending in Jun 27th. And you’re reporting that Italy did a total of 5 million tests?

      Also, again, I’ll reiterate the following fact, again, from the CDC website/pdf weekly report that I used with a May 9th reporting of top-10 US states for COVID-19 cases and deaths:

      The US COVID-19 cases increased by 9.5%, but death rate dropped 2.49% between May 9 to Jul 2 from May 9th.

      We increased in cases, but dropped in mortality rate. We have a survival rate of 95.4%. You truly are aren’t focused on the ball here. That’s like you saying a turn blinker is far more important than your brake lights.

      Total COVID-19 Deaths, as per CDC Jun 27, 2020: 112,226

        Ages 0-14: 29 (0.02%)
        Ages 15-24: 142 (0.12%)
        Ages 25-34: 770 (0.68%)
        Ages 35-44: 1,972 (1.75%)
        Ages 45-54: 5,488 (4.89%)
        Ages 55-64: 13,465 (11.9%)
        Ages 65-74: 23,333 (20.7%)
        Ages 75-84: 29,780 (26.5%)
        Ages 85+: 37,247 (33.1%)

      Can a child die from COVID-19? Yes. You bring up one death. That death belongs to the 0.02% mortality rate. So you found a child that fit into that very minuscule category. Hence, you want to shut everything down because the survival rate for 0-17 is 99.98%?

      You can keep showing examples to placate your emotions, but it belies the facts.

      Instead of showing the mortality rate, I’ll share the inverse from the aforementioned age breakdown in larger blocks, excluding ages 0 – 17:

      Survival rate for ages 15-34 = 99.2% (most pro athletes)
      Survival rate for ages 55+ = 7.8%

      Now, conflate that with the news that a combo of hydroxychloroquine and a Z-pack can help lower mortality rates when administered early for a symptomatic person, then it points to lowering the overall mortality rates.

      But, hey, go on ahead on shut down all sports where the athletes are usually the most fittest and within the age group of a 99.2% survival rate when infected with the virus. Yes… that makes the most logical sense after several months of recording COVID-19. /s

      Again, infections doth not equate death. Higher infections doth not equate higher death. Or you do dismiss actual data recordings? If so, then there’s no point having any conversation if you’re not using facts to guide thoughts.

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    • Hockey Duckie

      Participant
      Post count: 1317

      @dyt responded with:

      It was Island Bucs. I read the thread, again. I even mentioned the VA saying it was bullshit, and he came back with some hullabaloo. People, including the president, were lauding hydroxychloriquine. Idiots. He has vested interest in that drug. Of course he would pimp it. He’s a businessman, not an effective leader.

      So you don’t have an actual quote.

      Trump never said it was a cure. Trump stated it has potential to be a cure. There is a significant difference. Just like there’s a difference between you saying, “I’m a virgin,” and “I think I’m a virgin.” hahahhahahahhahahahhaha

      Bruh, if you can’t cite, then don’t recite. Deal with facts, not propaganda.

      Oh… by the way, here’s cite link to Hydroxychloroquine lowers COVID-19 death rate.

      Can you imagine how many other lives could have been saved if it were allowed to be administered earlier in a symptomatic patient? Patients should listen to their doctors, not the media.

      Anyhow, go turtle away with your third-party russian-gate connections of “so called” facts.

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    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 395

      [quote quote=1294590]This just in: Hydroxychloroquine lowers COVID-19 death rate

      The key here is that it is to be administered earlier than the later and far more dangerous stages of COVID-19 positive, symptomatic patients.

      I guess @dyt and media were helping to end more lives unnecessarily by stating an FDA approved drug many decades ago is dangerous and should not be taken. That doesn’t make any sense since it’s already FDA approved with known side effects.[/quote]

      FDA approvals are for specific uses. So, it’s safe for lupus and whatever else, but…

      You can quote one study… There are several that showed it was detrimental in treating COVID. And the numbers were so bad they killed off the studies… You’re looking at a drug that has the potential to damage the heart, which is one of the major risk factors for dying of COVID… So don’t go sucking DJT’s dick just yet. Or do…

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    • kenntak

      Participant
      Post count: 1094

      Hockey, I don’t think I ever said shut down all sports, that was X. I agreed with him that the only way to control the virus was a total shutdown, but as I said before, many in the US failed to respect the lockdown and it failed in most states. I also said there is no going back now unless things really plummet (although some states are starting to close down again, at least partially). In other words, people blew it, and if the NFL season gets cancelled, thank those people.

      Hockey, let’s be honest. You are picking and choosing stats to obfuscate your emotions in not wanting sports cancelled, and as an attempt to give credibility to your statements. Your factual presentation can gives false comfort because it is based upon selective facts interpreted by you. I know this because you ignore my facts, and just bring up the 11 year-old dying, basically saying its no big deal because the death percentage is still low. Not very admirable.

      You focus on survival rate of athletes but totally dismiss the harm the virus can do to their bodies, the risk of the virus spreading to others, and the fact that the player and probably many others would need to be in quarantine. There is more to this scenario than your single percentage stat.

      I find it amusing that you dismiss my statements as not guided by facts (they are, you just ignore those facts). You essentially say that there is no point in having a conversation unless I accept your axiom that:

      Again, infections doth not equate death. Higher infections doth not equate higher death.

      I am not a math expert but I think .055 * 20,000 is substantially less than .046 * 52,000. That means a much higher rate of infections even at a lower death rate means more deaths. Do you want to dispute simple math also?

      It is crystal clear that you are willing to sacrifice the lives of some people to have the NFL season. Why don’t you be upfront, and just say that, instead of hiding behind selective “facts.”

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    • RHBucsFan

      Participant
      Post count: 1707

      [postquote quote=1294572]


      @buccaneerNW
      , all good bro. Go Bucs!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      Yup. Talk about harboring an agenda…Jesus.

      Hydroxychloriquine is not a cure as Island Bucs said. Trump was taking it for what exactly? Why was he telling everyone he was taking it? To increase sales?

      The only way to stop it is to remove vector accessibility. Without a host, it goes extinct. It is the only way to stop it. A complete mandatory shutdown of everything. Walmart included. 30 days of isolation, social contact reserved for absolutely necessary hospital visits and civil service needs. It is not ideal but it is the ONLY way without a cure. Which we do not have, hydroxychloriquine is not a cure nor an effective measure of treatment, get off it. If you want to read the quote, ask Island Bucs. I’m not giving you his direct answer because it isn’t worth it, and Island Bucs knows he is wrong.

      We have not shut down with the measures I have mentioned, so there is no “been there done that” as you say. People were protesting a month into this, because they said it was a hoax. Bunch of dumbasses. [postquote quote=1294595]

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    • creamsicles

      Participant
      Post count: 592

      X, your 30 day plan is optimistic in theory, but wouldn’t work because:
      1. You would need the entire globe to do this simultaneously, and that won’t occur
      2. Medical workers, food producers, and other “essential workers” allowed to leave their quarantine would undermine the approach.
      3. People needing non-COVID urgent care breaking quarantine would undermine the approach.
      4. Bad actors taking advantage of quarantined law enforcement would undermine the approach
      5. Illegal immigrants during this time would undermine the approach.
      6. Many individuals won’t honor the severe lockdown and would require brutal State tactics to enforce.
      7. We lack adequate drone and robotics technology/distribution to increase the effectiveness of this approach
      8. Even if we supplied the entire population 30 days of food and supplies and housed every homeless person, many sub populations would need continued Help including the mentally ill and medically frail.
      9. It creates a myriad of other short-term and long-term health related problems, including high fatalities
      10. Targeting one public health risk, while ignoring the remainder of the health risk universe, usually creates a net negative outcome

      IMO,The biggest flaw in your argument relates to infections after the 30 days would be completed, unless you somehow ensure that no human enters or exits the United States until the virus is eradicated globally (and we assume that humans cannot be infected by other animals). Testing is great, but imperfect. False negatives can occur and many Infections aren’t detected within exposure window periods, therefore reintroduction would be likely (though easier to manage).

      We will get through this, but it won’t be through an aggressive national or global 30 day lockdown with severe repercussions for violators. The mortality rates aren’t severe enough to consider draconian measures. I hope this world never faces a virus that makes us consider that approach for global survival.

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    • creamsicles

      Participant
      Post count: 592

      X, Trump may have been taking Hydroxychloroqine as a pre- exposure prophylactic to prevent infection. Treatments in the HIV world are used this way as PrEP. I haven’t seen anything to suggest this works for Covid-19, but doctors have tried all sorts of things as long as it honors the Hippocratic Oath. His doctor may have also prescribed it as early treatment in case of infection.

      Please remember that a non-physician can’t prescribe.

      If you think his doctor is willing to lose his license and risk malpractice, then you’d assume that Trump was taking it to promote the safety profile.

      Speaking of the safety profile, many (if not all) of the legitimate studies that claimed Hydroxychloroqine as a significant health risk have been retracted since the data used for analysis was flawed. For example, The Lancet and NEJM both posted lead author retractions after Surgisphere refused to cooperate with independent reviewers and would not provide raw data.

      It is now widely believed that Surgisphere intentionally engaged in deceit and digital manipulations have been found in past studies along with other ethics breaches.

      It deeply saddens me when Science/medicine is compromised for politics… no matter who does it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      Europe has banned Americans from entering. It is doable, not ideal, but as I stated already, it is the only effective measure to staunch this epidemic. I am not talking about other countries who seem to have a better handle on this. But border lockdowns, shuttling down all retail, limiting social interaction to civic necessity (as I stated already, hospital visits and fire departments, etc) would be used as needed but the rest has to be shut down to remove vectors, which is what covid needs. Again, not ideal but doable. People will suffer but without a cure, prepare to be put into phase 1 for another year or two. Which will devastate this country more so than a thirty day mandatory lockdown that would be enforced with severe repercussions. Large monetary fines, jailing (quarantine) until this is over, etc. not ideal but the absolute only way to make this go away. Illegals entering will come into a country without any means to survive so be it. [postquote quote=1294635]

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    • Mrshowstopper

      Participant
      Post count: 145

      Man, I didn’t think this thread was going to dive deep into COVID discussion, I was just spit balling ideas on how a season COULD work is all

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    • kenntak

      Participant
      Post count: 1094

      Sorry your thread got a little hijacked. It’s a big topic now, unfortunately.

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    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3361

      Think about how necessary the preseason games are if you aren’t going to have fans anyway. Nobody is going to the game, and not very many people really want to watch it on TV either. I kind of understand where the players mayh be coming from. They are saying “What are we actually doing here with these preseason games?” They could hold some joint practices where they can have a better control of the situation. Its not ideal. Coaches won’t like it. I’m not saying its going to make for high quality football in the first couple weeks of the season, but they could survive without the preseason games.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      I highly doubt it will happen (the season). Hell, Florida is peaking hard right now…they have three teams.

      No way this gets resolved in a few months. I had some doubt in early March, and now? That has turned into a almost given that this season is lost.

      This sucks.

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    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3361

      College football is talking about playing their season in the Spring. I have a suspicion this is what will happen. The Ivy League will be voting on it in a couple days, but its a consideration for the whole NCAA.

      Why would the NFL not push the season back as opposed to cancelling? They basically can push it back as far as they need to. The offseason is one long boring trip as all NFL fans can attest to. It wouldn’t be the end of the world to cut into the 2021 offseason a month or two.

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    • buccaneerNW

      Participant
      Post count: 395

      Trump has made this country a pariah state. Such a disgrace. How does the EU get everything turned around, and the United States is going into the 2nd hump in the first wave? Incompetence from the top. Denial of science. Using the disease as just another way to divide the country. Calling anyone who protests over racism part of a far-left fascist takeover? Jeezus, what a fucking piece of shit he is.

      Also, you can’t hijack “fascism” to apply to the left, when you’re an authoritarian, corrupt, lying, narcissist who throws red meat to white nationalists….

      Definition…
      Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

      ^^ This is Trump

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      I am GOP, but at this point this is undeniable fact. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. He made so many promises and what has he done, in reality? Considering his party war-cries he has t done a damn thing. The guy is a terrible leader and a criminal with a questionable IQ. Sad times to be a republican. But these lefties are acting like petulant idiots as well. What a disgrace our country has become since he took over. The world thinks we’re a joke, which we sort of are at this moment. Our citizens are vastly ignorant and racist, both ways. [postquote quote=1294668]

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    • kenntak

      Participant
      Post count: 1094

      I agree with you X, and you are an example as to how people must use their minds and conscious when it comes to politics, and not simply be blinded by the party line and propaganda. There is much fault on both sides, and it is tearing the country apart. The sad part is that so many people are too polarized to even have a rational discussion anymore.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      +99999999![postquote quote=1294685]

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    • The Anomaly

      Participant
      Post count: 1249

      I doubt we have football anytime soon.

      Sorry but it ain’t happenin’.

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    • ryan24

      Participant
      Post count: 777

      [postquote quote=1294639]

      I don’t think Trump was ever taking the drug.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2507

      He is a liar. So def a possibility. [postquote quote=1294714]

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