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    • Alldaway 2.0

      Participant
      Post count: 4394

      It is quite obvious when the Bucs are lacking talent still in key areas.  However, at this pace this team may be lucky to reach six wins.With that said some of these problems are fixable.  But there are other problems that are not fixable and must be addressed with personnel changes on the coaching staff and the roster in the following off season.Right now, a lot of people are saying Lavonte David isn't playing too well because the scheme is not allowing him to make plays.  The problem is that David is not making the plays that come to him.  The scheme designs plays to be funneled to him.  When you drop INT's and miss tackles that is on the player not the scheme.Conte is looking like the best defensive player out there and that to me is: 1. Scary and 2. Unacceptable.  Defensively players need to step up or have some of the veterans sit for the young guys to see more playing time.  Bucs need to find hungry players that want to play for this team.  Right now the hunger isn't there for some players.  Trade dead line is still in the distance.

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      Build the trenches!

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      I agree with your thoughts on the players.  Not sure I see 5 more wins on the schedule though.  Not sure I see 2.  But if you go watch McCoys presser, it is a prime example of the attitude of this team.  A bunch of really nice guys. I don’t see the hunger.  I don’t see the team work.  I see 11 players on the field, not a team.  This team lacks an on the field general that will hold people accountable.  Of course I heard McCoy tell his line mates that unless they step up their game they could only have one snack with their drink on the next movie night.

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    • johnd

      Participant
      Post count: 333

      Conte is a baller. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Conte is a baller.

      LMAO Conte is the defensive MVP thus far.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      “6-10 rebuilding team”seems you're being rather optimistic.

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    • mdclarie

      Participant
      Post count: 867

      6? 6 F’n wins? I just don’t see it looking at out schedule. There are 3 winnable games left on the schedule unless this team and the defense get their heads out of their ass. Am I supposed to be happy with a 6 win team when were predicted by most pundits to win 8 games last year and fell flat to win 2. Even this year we were predicted to win more than 6, that's completely unacceptable. This was never a team that was rebuilding, not according to the words or actions of the front office. This is a team that does a shitty job evaluating talent and an even shittier job of play to the strengths of the talent they have.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 680

      No way Bucs have 6 wins in them…no way

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      I haven’t seen the coaches film yet but David is dropping back into coverage but he can’t read an offense. He sucks at it……so he is a waste of space out there. Like the Ted Ginn TD where he runs a slant and runs right in front of David totally uncovered, and David backpedals over to the WR who is already covered and it is an easy TD. Derrick Brooks would have been all over that midget Ginn and probably got a pick-6, or else laid him out if he did dare catch the ball in front of him. David looks like he is wondering what position he is supposed to be in, instead of diagnosing the play. He looks lost in any kind of zone coverage. They should just put in an extra safety on those downs and run the dime package. Sit David on thise plays because he just doesn't get it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      I never saw any pundit predicting this team to win more than six games this season.  But if they did well the joke is on the team.  Still, I agree that six wins seems fleeting with the way the season is going.And yeah this team is playing soft when Chris Conte is the defensive MVP for the first quarter of the season.  :(

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      I haven't seen the coaches film yet but David is dropping back into coverage but he can't read an offense. He sucks at it......so he is a waste of space out there. Like the Ted Ginn TD where he runs a slant and runs right in front of David totally uncovered, and David backpedals over to the WR who is already covered and it is an easy TD. Derrick Brooks would have been all over that midget Ginn and probably got a pick-6, or else laid him out if he did dare catch the ball in front of him. David looks like he is wondering what position he is supposed to be in, instead of diagnosing the play. He looks lost in any kind of zone coverage. They should just put in an extra safety on those downs and run the dime package. Sit David on these plays because he just doesn't get it.

      I am not as concerned about the zone coverage mistake of David.  However that is problematic but that can be addressed.  David is biting too much on window dressing or not taking care of business in front of him.  Playing WILL is about plays being funneled to him and keeping everything in front of him. Reading your keys and breaking on the QB's throws to make plays.  Right now David looks like a lost puppy out there.  Nickerson will fix this and help him out.What is more concerning is the fact that David is missing tackles and dropping INT's. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      6? 6 F'n wins? I just don't see it looking at out schedule. There are 3 winnable games left on the schedule unless this team and the defense get their heads out of their ass. Am I supposed to be happy with a 6 win team when were predicted by most pundits to win 8 games last year and fell flat to win 2. Even this year we were predicted to win more than 6, that's completely unacceptable. This was never a team that was rebuilding, not according to the words or actions of the front office. This is a team that does a (censored)ty job evaluating talent and an even (censored)tier job of play to the strengths of the talent they have.

      As to whether we were rebuilding, they gutted the OL. Four out of five starters. And how many holdovers on defense from the Schiano days? McCoy, David, Banks.......that's it that I can think of. They are certainly rebuilding, but I think the big question is, why can't we do it faster??? People point to other coaches like the Texans coach and how he quickly got 9 wins or whatever it was. They did not really blow up their roster like we did here. In order to rebuild you must first destroy. They did that here. Most teams don't do it and certainly not so abruptly.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1198

      5 more wins? Versus who?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      If jameis would play like the qb i expected, we would have a shot at six plus.The guy JUST played a game where he was actually worse than freeman. Dont care if its rookie mistakes. For someone who is supposed to be working on film at 1:30am, is a first overall pick, and pro-ready, that is a Turrible excuse.He's laid two real stinkers, a "good" game, and an ok one. Even for a rookie, thats not exactly a great omen.Somehow, some of you have twisted the idea that somehow, first year failures = greatness. Honestly, more first year failures are usually met with, more failure. It's otherwise a rarity.Starting to think history is just going to repeat itself here.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      6? 6 F'n wins? I just don't see it looking at out schedule. There are 3 winnable games left on the schedule unless this team and the defense get their heads out of their ass. Am I supposed to be happy with a 6 win team when were predicted by most pundits to win 8 games last year and fell flat to win 2. Even this year we were predicted to win more than 6, that's completely unacceptable. This was never a team that was rebuilding, not according to the words or actions of the front office. This is a team that does a (censored)ty job evaluating talent and an even (censored)tier job of play to the strengths of the talent they have.

      As to whether we were rebuilding, they gutted the OL. Four out of five starters. And how many holdovers on defense from the Schiano days? McCoy, David, Banks.......that's it that I can think of. They are certainly rebuilding, but I think the big question is, why can't we do it faster??? People point to other coaches like the Texans coach and how he quickly got 9 wins or whatever it was. They did not really blow up their roster like we did here. In order to rebuild you must first destroy. They did that here. Most teams don't do it and certainly not so abruptly.

      For whatever reason this team has turned over more than 70% of the roster and that will climb with another off season.I do not see Mankins, VJAX, etc and other veteran players coming back. This is going to be an even younger football team by next off season (veteran departures + new drafted players).Right now the young veterans like McCoy, David, etc need to step it up.  They are the "future" veterans that must lead this team. Mankins and VJAX are the current veteran leaders but the sun is setting on both of these players.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      Yeah…the rookie QB excuse will work for a couple of more games and then it will just be tired and worn out.And all of these witty retorts about Peyton, Aikman, and Favre stuggling their first season...so that automatically means Jaboo is going to the same thing is laughable and sad. WTF has he done to warrant that type of credit/expectation? And spare me the shit he did in college...the in the NFL, which stands for NOT FOR LONG if you don't take care of the rock.I look at the remaining schedule and see MAYBE two more wins...three tops...so we are staring down the barrel of a 5 win season and ANOTHER top 5 draft pick...YAY US

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      The rookie excuse works for the entire season. You can stop throwing your tantrum now.  If you haven’t noticed the Bucs are starting the most rookies in the league. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      6? 6 F'n wins? I just don't see it looking at out schedule. There are 3 winnable games left on the schedule unless this team and the defense get their heads out of their ass. Am I supposed to be happy with a 6 win team when were predicted by most pundits to win 8 games last year and fell flat to win 2. Even this year we were predicted to win more than 6, that's completely unacceptable. This was never a team that was rebuilding, not according to the words or actions of the front office. This is a team that does a (censored)ty job evaluating talent and an even (censored)tier job of play to the strengths of the talent they have.

      As to whether we were rebuilding, they gutted the OL. Four out of five starters. And how many holdovers on defense from the Schiano days? McCoy, David, Banks.......that's it that I can think of. They are certainly rebuilding, but I think the big question is, why can't we do it faster??? People point to other coaches like the Texans coach and how he quickly got 9 wins or whatever it was. They did not really blow up their roster like we did here. In order to rebuild you must first destroy. They did that here. Most teams don't do it and certainly not so abruptly.

      For whatever reason this team has turned over more than 70% of the roster and that will climb with another off season.I do not see Mankins, VJAX, etc and other veteran players coming back. This is going to be an even younger football team by next off season (veteran departures + new drafted players).Right now the young veterans like McCoy, David, etc need to step it up.  They are the "future" veterans that must lead this team. Mankins and VJAX are the current veteran leaders but the sun is setting on both of these players.

      At some point, someone has stand up in the room and determine why we keep churning the roster...I mean, seriously. Why do we keep rolling folks out the door and bringing new people in...it is maddening...and lets not even begin to discuss the FA agency record of this regime.At some point, the organization has to face the fact that they hired a dumb ass HC and this team will continue to suffer with him at the helm. The closing drive at the half is just another example of how piss poor this team is managed...[SIGH]

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    • johnd

      Participant
      Post count: 333

      The rookie excuse works for the entire season. You can stop throwing your tantrum now.  If you haven't noticed the Bucs are starting the most rookies in the league.

      they be youngry

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      The rookies are not the only reason why the Bucs are losing most of these games.  A lot of veterans are failing this team right now. These veterans are not playing hungry and a lot of them are simply collecting a paycheck. Most will not return for next season. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      The rookie excuse works for the entire season. You can stop throwing your tantrum now.  If you haven't noticed the Bucs are starting the most rookies in the league.

      If you choose to accept that crap, fine. I guess we will accept our 4 win season, another top 5 draft pick, and Lovie will make it all bet next year.Your right...everything is going to be just fine. Thanks for showing me the error of my ways.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 175

      I expected 6-8 wins this season, but now I’m starting to think less…THE DEFENSE should be the biggest topic of frustration and fan crying. This is Lovie's bread and butter and they stink, its pathetic. Panthers scored 37, most on any opponent all year. The Jags gave up less.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      I expected 6-8 wins this season, but now I'm starting to think less...THE DEFENSE should be the biggest topic of frustration and fan crying. This is Lovie's bread and butter and they stink, its pathetic. Panthers scored 37, most on any opponent all year. The Jags gave up less.

      It is certainly at the top of the list...along with piss poor clock management, FG kickers, secondary issues, and lack of fire from ANY players.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 337

      Yeah...the rookie QB excuse will work for a couple of more games and then it will just be tired and worn out.And all of these witty retorts about Peyton, Aikman, and Favre stuggling their first season...so that automatically means Jaboo is going to the same thing is laughable and sad. WTF has he done to warrant that type of credit/expectation? And spare me the (censored) he did in college...the in the NFL, which stands for NOT FOR LONG if you don't take care of the rock.I look at the remaining schedule and see MAYBE two more wins...three tops...so we are staring down the barrel of a 5 win season and ANOTHER top 5 draft pick...YAY US

      The Peyton/Aikman/Favre excuse is BS.Those guys came into the NFL when it was legal to play physical pass defense and legal to tattoo the QB after every throw. They had an excuse when it came to throwing INTs and getting the crap kicked out of them.It's never been easier to be a rookie QB than it is right now.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2445

      If we loose to the Jags next week then we’ll be lucky to get 4 wins. We’ll be looking at a possible head coaching change yet again. Would suck to loose Koeter, maybe he could take over. I just want a new defense really. Our season would quickly be over and we’d be all about looking towards the draft yet again and eyeing the best DE prospect. All eyes on Bosa if we loose to the Jags next week.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      Yeah...the rookie QB excuse will work for a couple of more games and then it will just be tired and worn out.And all of these witty retorts about Peyton, Aikman, and Favre stuggling their first season...so that automatically means Jaboo is going to the same thing is laughable and sad. WTF has he done to warrant that type of credit/expectation? And spare me the (censored) he did in college...the in the NFL, which stands for NOT FOR LONG if you don't take care of the rock.I look at the remaining schedule and see MAYBE two more wins...three tops...so we are staring down the barrel of a 5 win season and ANOTHER top 5 draft pick...YAY US

      The Peyton/Aikman/Favre excuse is BS.Those guys came into the NFL when it was legal to play physical pass defense and legal to tattoo the QB after every throw. They had an excuse when it came to throwing INTs and getting the crap kicked out of them.It's never been easier to be a rookie QB than it is right now.

      I wonder, for every Manning, Farve and Aikman that had a poor rookie season and went on to be great, how many QB's had a lousy rookie season and well, remained lousy?This is like the statement, 'Winston is the best "fill in the blank" since Luck'.  It's probably a true statement, but so is, 'Winston is the best "fill in the blank" since Geno Smith'.  And even though both statements may be the truth, saying Geno Smith just doesn't have the same value now does it? Not making predictions of doom or gloom nor sunshine and rainbows.  Just pointing out how most comparisons really aren't worth much.  Winston is Winston, lets see how he works out.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 337

      Yeah...the rookie QB excuse will work for a couple of more games and then it will just be tired and worn out.And all of these witty retorts about Peyton, Aikman, and Favre stuggling their first season...so that automatically means Jaboo is going to the same thing is laughable and sad. WTF has he done to warrant that type of credit/expectation? And spare me the (censored) he did in college...the in the NFL, which stands for NOT FOR LONG if you don't take care of the rock.I look at the remaining schedule and see MAYBE two more wins...three tops...so we are staring down the barrel of a 5 win season and ANOTHER top 5 draft pick...YAY US

      The Peyton/Aikman/Favre excuse is BS.Those guys came into the NFL when it was legal to play physical pass defense and legal to tattoo the QB after every throw. They had an excuse when it came to throwing INTs and getting the crap kicked out of them.It's never been easier to be a rookie QB than it is right now.

      I wonder, for every Manning, Farve and Aikman that had a poor rookie season and went on to be great, how many QB's had a lousy rookie season and well, remained lousy?This is like the statement, 'Winston is the best "fill in the blank" since Luck'.  It's probably a true statement, but so is, 'Winston is the best "fill in the blank" since Geno Smith'.  And even though both statements may be the truth, saying Geno Smith just doesn't have the same value now does it? Not making predictions of doom or gloom nor sunshine and rainbows.  Just pointing out how most comparisons really aren't worth much.  Winston is Winston, lets see how he works out.

      This exact issue came up in a "For the Win" blog post at USA Today:

      Since 2000, there have been 22 rookies to have a four-pick game like Winston and, with the exception of (perhaps) one, they’re all players who have, or will end up having careers that range from Leaf-like to very respectable, but not worthy of a No. 1 pick.Here they are, in order of my arbitrary career rankings. Keep in mind, these are the best rookies to throw 4+ in a game since 2000: Cam Newton, Matthew Stafford (x2), Jake Delhomme, Alex Smith, Mark Sanchez. And now, the worst (this time in no order): Joey Harrington, Ken Dorsey, EJ Manuel, Josh Freeman, Keith Null. Other players to do it include Brandon Weeden, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt McGloin, Chris Weinke, Derek Anderson, Henry Burris and John Navarre. There’s not a Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan or Ben Roethlisberger on there.

      http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/10/jameis-winston-interceptions-worst-rookie-game-marcus-mariota-tampa-bay-buccaneers-record

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      If we loose to the Jags next week then we'll be lucky to get 4 wins. We'll be looking at a possible head coaching change yet again. Would suck to loose Koeter, maybe he could take over. I just want a new defense really. Are season would quickly be over and we'd be all about looking towards the draft yet again and eyeing the best DE prospect. All eyes on Bosa if we loose to the Jags next week.

      Jags is a winnable game but it is all on Lovie to turn the ship around.

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    • glacier2k4

      Participant
      Post count: 10

      hey alldaway!!!how you been malaka?who do you think we should target before the trade deadline to make this team better?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 861

      All postions except:  (Assume kicker problem will be resolved this week)No WR needed we have 4 decent onesAll else fair game including coaches: HC, DC, OL, ST, secondaryWe need safties 2, CB  4, DE 2, Backup OL 4, kick/punt returner, 2P.S.  Left out 2 TE

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1151

      no way this team gets to 6-10

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      This is a 2-4 win team. I thought the defense would be improved. Same ol crap. Super soft zone coverage with not close to enough pass rush.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      A timeline for the impatient and knee jerk posters:Gru/Allen failed to build a team through the draft which is why they were let go.  The veterans they were acquiring were near the twilight of their career.  The team imploded once Kiffen left.  Monte was able to cobble together a decent defense despite not having a capable pass rusher ever since Simeon Rice was let go and very little defensive investment.Areas of weaknesses that Gru/Allen failed to address: QB, DE, UT.Bucs hire an upstart GM with an upstart HC to rebuild from the ground up and grow with this team.  Morris has immaturity issues and Dominik over valued the current players drafted by Allen.  Dominik also uses the money on non premium positions.  Dominik at least addressed QB, DE, UT.  Only McCoy was the only success from these attempts.  Schiano comes in and uses the resources to build a back end defensively with a front end lacking talent at defensive end.  Dungy said at the time that Schiano was building a defense backwards and he was right. You build a defense from the front to the back.  Goldshon, Revis, Barron, etc were all a waste of resources.QB, DE are question marks heading into Lovie's first year on the job with another upstart GM (again) in Licht. They whiffed badly in free agency to address the lines quickly(OL/DL).  There is no quick fix to addressing the lines as they learned the hard way.  You have to draft and develop.  Current time:Bucs have a 2nd year GM with a HC trying to guide one of the youngest teams in football that is starting the most rookies in the NFL.  Team still lacks talent in apparent years dating back to the Gru/Allen era (eg Defensive End).  It is hard to win in the NFL when you lack talent at DE and QB play is not up to par.  That is why the Bucs drafted Jameis Winston in 2015 and why they will draft a DE in 2016. 

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    • sonny

      Participant
      Post count: 5

      Team is going to be lucky to be 2-14 again   :'( :'( :'( :'(

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    • sonny

      Participant
      Post count: 5

      A timeline for the impatient and knee jerk posters:Gru/Allen failed to build a team through the draft which is why they were let go.  The veterans they were acquiring were near the twilight of their career.  The team imploded once Kiffen left.  Monte was able to cobble together a decent defense despite not having a capable pass rusher ever since Simeon Rice was let go and very little defensive investment.Areas of weaknesses that Gru/Allen failed to address: QB, DE, UT.Bucs hire an upstart GM with an upstart HC to rebuild from the ground up and grow with this team.  Morris has immaturity issues and Dominik over valued the current players drafted by Allen.  Dominik also uses the money on non premium positions.  Dominik at least addressed QB, DE, UT.  Only McDoy was the success from these attempts.  Schiano comes in and uses the resources to build a back end defensively with a front end lacking talent at defensive end.  Dungy said at the time that Schiano was building a defense backwards and he was right. You build a defense from the front to the back.  Goldshon, Revis, Barron, etc were all a waste of resources.QB, DE are question marks heading into Lovie's first year on the job with another upstart GM (again) in Licht. They whiffed badly in free agency to address the lines quickly(OL/DL).  There is no quick fix to addressing the lines as they learned the hard way.  You have to draft and develop.  Current time:Bucs have a 2nd year GM with a HC trying to guide one of the youngest teams in football that is starting the most rookies in the NFL.  Team still lacks talent in apparent years dating back to the Gru/Allen era (eg Defensive End).  It is hard to win in the NFL when you lack talent at DE and QB play is not up to par.  That is why the Bucs drafted Jameis Winston in 2015 and why they will draft a DE in 2016.

      Your time line is fine here .. the problem is .. 1 we dont know if we have a good QB .. right now it seems not but it is early on his 4th game.  However the scouting department is crap so I dont trust any of these picks they are making which leads me to the second problem.We currently only have 2 guys (omitting the last two drafts) left on the team that we drafted.  McCoy and Lavonte .. who we opened the piggy bank to keep them and watch them play below their ability. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      A timeline for the impatient and knee jerk posters:Gru/Allen failed to build a team through the draft which is why they were let go.  The veterans they were acquiring were near the twilight of their career.  The team imploded once Kiffen left.  Monte was able to cobble together a decent defense despite not having a capable pass rusher ever since Simeon Rice was let go and very little defensive investment.Areas of weaknesses that Gru/Allen failed to address: QB, DE, UT.Bucs hire an upstart GM with an upstart HC to rebuild from the ground up and grow with this team.  Morris has immaturity issues and Dominik over valued the current players drafted by Allen.  Dominik also uses the money on non premium positions.  Dominik at least addressed QB, DE, UT.  Only McDoy was the success from these attempts.  Schiano comes in and uses the resources to build a back end defensively with a front end lacking talent at defensive end.  Dungy said at the time that Schiano was building a defense backwards and he was right. You build a defense from the front to the back.  Goldshon, Revis, Barron, etc were all a waste of resources.QB, DE are question marks heading into Lovie's first year on the job with another upstart GM (again) in Licht. They whiffed badly in free agency to address the lines quickly(OL/DL).  There is no quick fix to addressing the lines as they learned the hard way.  You have to draft and develop.  Current time:Bucs have a 2nd year GM with a HC trying to guide one of the youngest teams in football that is starting the most rookies in the NFL.  Team still lacks talent in apparent years dating back to the Gru/Allen era (eg Defensive End).  It is hard to win in the NFL when you lack talent at DE and QB play is not up to par.  That is why the Bucs drafted Jameis Winston in 2015 and why they will draft a DE in 2016.

      Your time line is fine here .. the problem is .. 1 we dont know if we have a good QB .. right now it seems not but it is early on his 4th game.  However the scouting department is crap so I dont trust any of these picks they are making which leads me to the second problem.We currently only have 2 guys (omitting the last two drafts) left on the team that we drafted.  McCoy and Lavonte .. who we opened the piggy bank to keep them and watch them play below their ability.

      Bucs have a new scouting department with a 2nd year GM. It is going to take time to build this franchise.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 51

      This team will not win 6 games. We’d be lucky to win 4

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      This team will not win 6 games. We'd be lucky to win 4

      Yeah six wins is optimistic but doable.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      I predicted 6 wins at the beginning of the year and I still think it will happen.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 253

      No way Bucs have 6 wins in them...no way

      They're fix'n to double the wins this week! Go Bucs!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      I predicted 6 wins at the beginning of the year and I still think it will happen.

      Agreed, as I observed the same thing from how the team played in pre season.  However, I do not like sloppy play regardless of a team's talent level.  Just my two pewter cents.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 253

      Gru/Allen failed to build a team through the draft which is why they were let go. 

      That's really what you're going with?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 177

      Yeah...the rookie QB excuse will work for a couple of more games and then it will just be tired and worn out.And all of these witty retorts about Peyton, Aikman, and Favre stuggling their first season...so that automatically means Jaboo is going to the same thing is laughable and sad. WTF has he done to warrant that type of credit/expectation? And spare me the (censored) he did in college...the in the NFL, which stands for NOT FOR LONG if you don't take care of the rock.I look at the remaining schedule and see MAYBE two more wins...three tops...so we are staring down the barrel of a 5 win season and ANOTHER top 5 draft pick...YAY US

      The Peyton/Aikman/Favre excuse is BS.Those guys came into the NFL when it was legal to play physical pass defense and legal to tattoo the QB after every throw. They had an excuse when it came to throwing INTs and getting the crap kicked out of them.It's never been easier to be a rookie QB than it is right now.

      I wonder, for every Manning, Farve and Aikman that had a poor rookie season and went on to be great, how many QB's had a lousy rookie season and well, remained lousy?This is like the statement, 'Winston is the best "fill in the blank" since Luck'.  It's probably a true statement, but so is, 'Winston is the best "fill in the blank" since Geno Smith'.  And even though both statements may be the truth, saying Geno Smith just doesn't have the same value now does it? Not making predictions of doom or gloom nor sunshine and rainbows.  Just pointing out how most comparisons really aren't worth much.  Winston is Winston, lets see how he works out.

      Freddy, you are making too much sense for this board.  The fact is there have been very good QBs who have struggled just as much as JW, and much worse QBs who have been better.  The jury is still out on JW, and will be for some time.  He will be a rookie all season, and will be a young, inexperienced QB even longer.  The coaches' job is to put the team in position to win while he is learning, and to put him in position to develop into the franchise QB that nearly every knowledgeable analyst believes he could be. I am not sure this is being done right now. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      LmfaoWe went from, "winston is god, and if you dont like him, you're a racist," to "winston is winston, lets cheer for him anyway?"Can no one see the face-palming irony of that?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Gru/Allen failed to build a team through the draft which is why they were let go. 

      That's really what you're going with?

      Yes.  Still don't understand why they spent a third round pick on Chris Colmer. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1151

      This team will not win 6 games. We'd be lucky to win 4

      Yeah six wins is optimistic but doable.

      look at the schedule and tell me who we get 5 wins from

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      6? 6 F'n wins? I just don't see it looking at out schedule. There are 3 winnable games left on the schedule unless this team and the defense get their heads out of their ass. Am I supposed to be happy with a 6 win team when were predicted by most pundits to win 8 games last year and fell flat to win 2. Even this year we were predicted to win more than 6, that's completely unacceptable. This was never a team that was rebuilding, not according to the words or actions of the front office. This is a team that does a (censored)ty job evaluating talent and an even (censored)tier job of play to the strengths of the talent they have.

      As to whether we were rebuilding, they gutted the OL. Four out of five starters. And how many holdovers on defense from the Schiano days? McCoy, David, Banks.......that's it that I can think of. They are certainly rebuilding, but I think the big question is, why can't we do it faster??? People point to other coaches like the Texans coach and how he quickly got 9 wins or whatever it was. They did not really blow up their roster like we did here. In order to rebuild you must first destroy. They did that here. Most teams don't do it and certainly not so abruptly.

      For whatever reason this team has turned over more than 70% of the roster and that will climb with another off season.I do not see Mankins, VJAX, etc and other veteran players coming back. This is going to be an even younger football team by next off season (veteran departures + new drafted players).Right now the young veterans like McCoy, David, etc need to step it up.  They are the "future" veterans that must lead this team. Mankins and VJAX are the current veteran leaders but the sun is setting on both of these players.

      At some point, someone has stand up in the room and determine why we keep churning the roster...I mean, seriously. Why do we keep rolling folks out the door and bringing new people in...it is maddening...and lets not even begin to discuss the FA agency record of this regime.At some point, the organization has to face the fact that they hired a dumb ass HC and this team will continue to suffer with him at the helm. The closing drive at the half is just another example of how piss poor this team is managed...[SIGH]

      We need a team president in between the Glazers and the GM. A guy who will make all upper level football decisions, that way the trust fund babies won't be able to fumble another HC hire.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 517

      I hope we lose out so that we can continue to stock this talent starved team.The only thing worse than watching a young team struggle again, was watching mediocre, old ass journey men come in here and get us to 9-7  or 7-9 every year. I couldn't get behind those guys. Dudes like Garcia, Hilliard, Leftwich, Ward... ugh.I like where we are headed. Some very good pieces, but we had to churn 90% of a wack ass roster. I can root for most of these guys.The O is pretty close to being set, minus some o-line. I am excited to see what Lovie can do with a defensively heavy draft. One pick in the last two years, and it looks like he and Licht nailed it.

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    • stonecoldbucsfan

      Participant
      Post count: 602

      If we beat Jacksonville and Washington in the coming weeks I could see a little momentum going to get to 5-7 wins. Falcons I don’t see a win in either game. Dallas is possible I don’t think Romo will play. Giants, Colts, Bears, Saints, and Eagles are winnable too. Worst part is so far it seems like our schedule this year is extremely easy and we probably will still end up with a top 7 pick.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 517

      If we beat Jacksonville and Washington in the coming weeks I could see a little momentum going to get to 5-7 wins. Falcons I don't see a win in either game. Dallas is possible I don't think Romo will play. Giants, Colts, Bears, Saints, and Eagles are winnable too. Worst part is so far it seems like our schedule this year is extremely easy and we probably will still end up with a top 7 pick.

      I'll take a top 7 pick! Our defense needs a lot of help. Every position but DT and LB. Bring it on!We have got to get after the quarterback. That's Bucs football, that's what led me to be a Bucs fan all the way from Cali. Let's get back to leading the league in sacks. Detroit's front 4 had me excited tonight, I want that.

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    • stonecoldbucsfan

      Participant
      Post count: 602

      If we beat Jacksonville and Washington in the coming weeks I could see a little momentum going to get to 5-7 wins. Falcons I don't see a win in either game. Dallas is possible I don't think Romo will play. Giants, Colts, Bears, Saints, and Eagles are winnable too. Worst part is so far it seems like our schedule this year is extremely easy and we probably will still end up with a top 7 pick.

      I'll take a top 7 pick! Our defense needs a lot of help. Every position but DT and LB. Bring it on!We have got to get after the quarterback. That's Bucs football, that's what led me to be a Bucs fan all the way from Cali. Let's get back to leading the league in sacks. Detroit's front 4 had me excited tonight, I want that.

      Agreed if we had an Ansah like player paired with McCoy our defense would look better. Other than the Saints game there really hasn't been any pressure on the QB.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      If we beat Jacksonville and Washington in the coming weeks I could see a little momentum going to get to 5-7 wins. Falcons I don't see a win in either game. Dallas is possible I don't think Romo will play. Giants, Colts, Bears, Saints, and Eagles are winnable too. Worst part is so far it seems like our schedule this year is extremely easy and we probably will still end up with a top 7 pick.

      This is relatively a young team so the verterans and coaching staff have to step it up.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      6? 6 F'n wins? I just don't see it looking at out schedule. There are 3 winnable games left on the schedule unless this team and the defense get their heads out of their ass. Am I supposed to be happy with a 6 win team when were predicted by most pundits to win 8 games last year and fell flat to win 2. Even this year we were predicted to win more than 6, that's completely unacceptable. This was never a team that was rebuilding, not according to the words or actions of the front office. This is a team that does a (censored)ty job evaluating talent and an even (censored)tier job of play to the strengths of the talent they have.

      As to whether we were rebuilding, they gutted the OL. Four out of five starters. And how many holdovers on defense from the Schiano days? McCoy, David, Banks.......that's it that I can think of. They are certainly rebuilding, but I think the big question is, why can't we do it faster??? People point to other coaches like the Texans coach and how he quickly got 9 wins or whatever it was. They did not really blow up their roster like we did here. In order to rebuild you must first destroy. They did that here. Most teams don't do it and certainly not so abruptly.

      For whatever reason this team has turned over more than 70% of the roster and that will climb with another off season.I do not see Mankins, VJAX, etc and other veteran players coming back. This is going to be an even younger football team by next off season (veteran departures + new drafted players).Right now the young veterans like McCoy, David, etc need to step it up.  They are the "future" veterans that must lead this team. Mankins and VJAX are the current veteran leaders but the sun is setting on both of these players.

      At some point, someone has stand up in the room and determine why we keep churning the roster...I mean, seriously. Why do we keep rolling folks out the door and bringing new people in...it is maddening...and lets not even begin to discuss the FA agency record of this regime.At some point, the organization has to face the fact that they hired a dumb ass HC and this team will continue to suffer with him at the helm. The closing drive at the half is just another example of how piss poor this team is managed...[SIGH]

      We need a team president in between the Glazers and the GM. A guy who will make all upper level football decisions, that way the trust fund babies won't be able to fumble another HC hire.

      Precisely.Right now Lovie and Licht are tied together. If we fire them both we are starting over again.We need a GM who does the right thing for the long-term and we need some insulation between the GM and head coach.Firing the head coach should not put the team into a lengthy rebuilding mode but right now that is what we have and if L&L go we will be in the same boat again.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      Precisely.Right now Lovie and Licht are tied together. If we fire them both we are starting over again.We need a GM who does the right thing for the long-term and we need some insulation between the GM and head coach.Firing the head coach should not put the team into a lengthy rebuilding mode but right now that is what we have and if L&L go we will be in the same boat again.

      GA...I really wonder about this...Lovie and Licht and all. The reason I wonder about this is because the FA signings have been downright horrendous, but the drafts have been somewhat decent (still too early to judge) and that leads me to wonder who makes the final call on the 53 man roster? Is Lovie the ruler for FA and Licht the guy behind the draft? Or is it just a blind squirrel thing when it comes to the draft?My suggestion for stability is get rid of Lovie, keep Koetter and Licht. Tell Licht, your the GM, this is your hire...this is your opportunity to fix this franchise and ensure the incoming coach understand that Koetter is his OC (if he is not the new HC) and that the GM is the ruling authority. I will even take it a step further...bring in a football CEO and let him decide EVERYTHING in terms of hires (not personnel decisions) and go from there.It is going to take something drastic to get the stink off of this team.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      The problem is that Licht is hand picked by Lovie.First mistake the Glazer made was to fire Morris but not Dominik with him.  Second mistake was to allow Dominik to hire Schiano.  Third mistake was to allow Lovie to pick Licht.So if Lovie goes, do you want to see a repeat of the Dominik scenario where Licht picks a HC out of desperation like Dominik did with Schiano?Right now the Bucs need to keep Licht and the new scouts that he has brought in. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      The problem is that Licht is hand picked by Lovie.First mistake the Glazer made was to fire Morris but not Dominik with him.  Second mistake was to allow Dominik to hire Schiano.  Third mistake was to allow Lovie to pick Licht.So if Lovie goes, do you want to see a repeat of the Dominik scenario where Licht picks a HC out of desperation like Dominik did with Schiano?Right now the Bucs need to keep Licht and the new scouts that he has brought in.

      Well, there is the automatic assumption that Licht will do something like Dominik and make a bad hire...I just can't see Licht doing something that bad...but, then again...It's A Bucs Life

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Precisely.Right now Lovie and Licht are tied together. If we fire them both we are starting over again.We need a GM who does the right thing for the long-term and we need some insulation between the GM and head coach.Firing the head coach should not put the team into a lengthy rebuilding mode but right now that is what we have and if L&L go we will be in the same boat again.

      GA...I really wonder about this...Lovie and Licht and all. The reason I wonder about this is because the FA signings have been downright horrendous, but the drafts have been somewhat decent (still too early to judge) and that leads me to wonder who makes the final call on the 53 man roster? Is Lovie the ruler for FA and Licht the guy behind the draft? Or is it just a blind squirrel thing when it comes to the draft?My suggestion for stability is get rid of Lovie, keep Koetter and Licht. Tell Licht, your the GM, this is your hire...this is your opportunity to fix this franchise and ensure the incoming coach understand that Koetter is his OC (if he is not the new HC) and that the GM is the ruling authority. I will even take it a step further...bring in a football CEO and let him decide EVERYTHING in terms of hires (not personnel decisions) and go from there.It is going to take something drastic to get the stink off of this team.

      That would be a good start. Give the GM more authority. My take is that Licht has final say on the draft and Lovie has final say on the 53. But, the bigger issue is how they hired the coach first and then the GM. And how much involved they have allowed the coach to be. They did the same with Gruden, allowing him to ditch McKay and bring in his guy. It's just terrible structure. If it doesn't work out you are looking at a lengthy rebuild. Where are we at? Year 8 of this rebuild since Gruden/Allen left. It has been a disaster. Chace is right on target with the team President thing. That is yet another level of insulation but between the Glazers and your football people. They need that desperately IMO. The problem is that when the Glazers bypassed Rich McKay and hired Gruden they won the SB and thought they knew what they were doing. So, they have repeated it in a way by hiring Lovie instead of hiring a real football man to be team President who would have hired a GM first and then let him hire the coach.And remember who Rich McKay was going to hire? Marvin Lewis? Sure, he hasn't won a SB but look at his record in Cincinatti. I would look up his win % and compare it to the Bucs since he was hired, but I am afraid it would make me sick to my stomach. In retrospect, he was probably the best long term candidate for the job.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2445

      Season just started, but if we  loose to the Jags, the season is officially over and it becomes the Joey Bosa sweepstakes for us. Life of a Bucs fan midway through the regular season of the NFL.  If Bosa wasnt just a fluke last year, that guy we could truly use. Especially if we’re continuing with this crap soft zone coverage that Lovie is running.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      That would be a good start. Give the GM more authority. My take is that Licht has final say on the draft and Lovie has final say on the 53. But, the bigger issue is how they hired the coach first and then the GM. And how much involved they have allowed the coach to be. They did the same with Gruden, allowing him to ditch McKay and bring in his guy. It's just terrible structure. If it doesn't work out you are looking at a lengthy rebuild. Where are we at? Year 8 of this rebuild since Gruden/Allen left. It has been a disaster. Chace is right on target with the team President thing. That is yet another level of insulation but between the Glazers and your football people. They need that desperately IMO. The problem is that when the Glazers bypassed Rich McKay and hired Gruden they won the SB and thought they knew what they were doing. So, they have repeated it in a way by hiring Lovie instead of hiring a real football man to be team President who would have hired a GM first and then let him hire the coach.And remember who Rich McKay was going to hire? Marvin Lewis? Sure, he hasn't won a SB but look at his record in Cincinatti. I would look up his win % and compare it to the Bucs since he was hired, but I am afraid it would make me sick to my stomach. In retrospect, he was probably the best long term candidate for the job.

      Preach on about how utterly fucked up it is to hire the coach before the GM!!!I would love a football CEO, but damn, who would it be? Holmgren, Pioli, Polian, or Dungy? It has got be a strong football guy.Lewis would be a step up...without a doubt, but essentially you are right back where we were with Dungy...always the bridesmaid, never the bride. Now, I know that is a far damn cry from where we are now and lord knows I would be 4-0 year in and year out, but one has to recognize that getting your hopes every single year and crashing to earth can be hard.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Season just started, but if we  loose to the Jags, the season is officially over and it becomes the Joey Bosa sweepstakes for us. Life of a Bucs fan midway through the regular season of the NFL.  If Bosa wasnt just a fluke last year, that guy we could truly use. Especially if we're continuing with this crap soft zone coverage that Lovie is running.

      I think the Jags game is important for any team heading into a bye week.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 648

      no way this team gets to 6-10

      way garth.. we are doing it. i feel t down in my plums. big, purple, juicy plums. ready to take them to the farmers market baby.

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