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    • Eric Horchy

      Keymaster
      Post count: 493

      Teammates and coaches always seem to talk about three things when the topic is Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive end William Gholston: intensity, potential and versatility.In three years with the Bucs since being their fourth-round draft pick in 2013 out of Michigan State, Gholston’s shown all three on the field. The problem, however, has been channeling and focusing his emotions and abilities with consistency.https://www.pewterreport.com/articles/this-is-the-year-for-fiery-bucs-de-gholston/

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Should be re-signed before camp. 4 years, $20-25M

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Teammates and coaches always seem to talk about three things when the topic is Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive end William Gholston: intensity, potential and versatility.

      I like the kid a lot and really hope he succeeds, but it could be that his "versatility" means he doesn't stand out at any one thing, justgood at a lot.  That would still be a good thing and still make him very valuable, I just wonder about the breakout year concept.  Definitely pulling for him though

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      He stands out as a power LE. More suited to be in a 3-4 but for the Bucs to steal him in the 4th round I can’t make a big deal about scheme fit. If you re-draft 2013 he’s a first round pick. Bucs would the the type of organization to let him walk though.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1419

      He stands out as a power LE. More suited to be in a 3-4 but for the Bucs to steal him in the 4th round I can't make a big deal about scheme fit. If you re-draft 2013 he's a first round pick. Bucs would the the type of organization to let him walk though.

      Lol your opinions are so weird dudeAnd it's good for the board, make sure you stick around man

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 348

      I’m okay with letting him walk. He’s too tall to be an above average NFL pass rusher. Tough for him to get leverage. I’m okay with Spence/J Smith/Ayers. We would miss gholston against the run though.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Should be re-signed before camp. 4 years, $20-25M

      I am probably his #1 fan, but give him that much cheddar, based on?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Should be re-signed before camp. 4 years, $20-25M

      I am probably his #1 fan, but give him that much cheddar, based on?

      If you add 4 years, $20M to his 1.8M cap number now, it would average 4.36M over 5 years, 34th for DEs. By the end of his contract it will be closer to 50th.Would structure it2016- 4M guaranteed2017- 4M guaranteed 2018- 4.4M2019- 4.4M2020- 5M

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Should be re-signed before camp. 4 years, $20-25M

      I am probably his #1 fan, but give him that much cheddar, based on?

      If you add 4 years, $20M to his 1.8M cap number now, it would average 4.36M over 5 years, 34th for DEs. By the end of his contract it will be closer to 50th.Would structure it2016- 4M guaranteed2017- 4M guaranteed 2018- 4.4M2019- 4.4M2020- 5M

      I dont know man, I love the guy, but I would like to see more production before writing the check.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Should be re-signed before camp. 4 years, $20-25M

      I am probably his #1 fan, but give him that much cheddar, based on?

      If you add 4 years, $20M to his 1.8M cap number now, it would average 4.36M over 5 years, 34th for DEs. By the end of his contract it will be closer to 50th.Would structure it2016- 4M guaranteed2017- 4M guaranteed 2018- 4.4M2019- 4.4M2020- 5M

      I dont know man, I love the guy, but I would like to see more production before writing the check.

      What's your goal? To get him signed for 3M a year instead of 4.36? Risk him getting to free agency for all that? This team has blown money free agent bums but we finally have a home grown player and now fans want to get cheap.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1271

      Best comparison for Gholston to me is Calais Campbell, who signed a 5 year, $55 million contract in 2012. Now I doubt Gholston will quite get that, but I do think he’ll blow the numbers you guys are talking about out of the water if he keeps improving his play as he has done. With everyone we have on deck to get paid, I’d be surprised if we are the ones to pay him, but hopefully he has a great year and makes it a consideration.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Should be re-signed before camp. 4 years, $20-25M

      I am probably his #1 fan, but give him that much cheddar, based on?

      If you add 4 years, $20M to his 1.8M cap number now, it would average 4.36M over 5 years, 34th for DEs. By the end of his contract it will be closer to 50th.Would structure it2016- 4M guaranteed2017- 4M guaranteed 2018- 4.4M2019- 4.4M2020- 5M

      I dont know man, I love the guy, but I would like to see more production before writing the check.

      What's your goal? To get him signed for 3M a year instead of 4.36? Risk him getting to free agency for all that? This team has blown money free agent bums but we finally have a home grown player and now fans want to get cheap.

      A home grown player that has 7 sacks from 2013-2015? I would let him play out the season and see how it goes. If he turns into JJ this season, then fine you pay him. And yes it would cost us more, but I would gladly pay the big season dividend if he earned it. That is what I hope happens, but it is unlikely. I think the more likely scenario is, Robert balls out big time. And we are all saying, William who?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      Thanks AJ, I was wondering if I was confusing Gholston with someone else…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      Nothing wrong with it but this is the standard pre camp puff piece on a lesser player.  G is a good depth player. At best he is planned as the 3rd best DE on the team.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Should be re-signed before camp. 4 years, $20-25M

      I am probably his #1 fan, but give him that much cheddar, based on?

      If you add 4 years, $20M to his 1.8M cap number now, it would average 4.36M over 5 years, 34th for DEs. By the end of his contract it will be closer to 50th.Would structure it2016- 4M guaranteed2017- 4M guaranteed 2018- 4.4M2019- 4.4M2020- 5M

      I dont know man, I love the guy, but I would like to see more production before writing the check.

      What's your goal? To get him signed for 3M a year instead of 4.36? Risk him getting to free agency for all that? This team has blown money free agent bums but we finally have a home grown player and now fans want to get cheap.

      A home grown player that has 7 sacks from 2013-2015? I would let him play out the season and see how it goes. If he turns into JJ this season, then fine you pay him. And yes it would cost us more, but I would gladly pay the big season dividend if he earned it. That is what I hope happens, but it is unlikely. I think the more likely scenario is, Robert balls out big time. And we are all saying, William who?

      Challenge you to look at it more logically. He's not a pass rusher, think everyone accepts that. But there's a role, a winning role, that he excels at.I want to pay him like the 40-50th best DE, you bring up "if he turns into JJ". Watt is likely going to be a top 5 DE of all time.And you finish it in typical Buc fan fashion, thinking a Free Agent will over perform.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      Should be re-signed before camp. 4 years, $20-25M

      I am probably his #1 fan, but give him that much cheddar, based on?

      If you add 4 years, $20M to his 1.8M cap number now, it would average 4.36M over 5 years, 34th for DEs. By the end of his contract it will be closer to 50th.Would structure it2016- 4M guaranteed2017- 4M guaranteed 2018- 4.4M2019- 4.4M2020- 5M

      I dont know man, I love the guy, but I would like to see more production before writing the check.

      What's your goal? To get him signed for 3M a year instead of 4.36? Risk him getting to free agency for all that? This team has blown money free agent bums but we finally have a home grown player and now fans want to get cheap.

      A home grown player that has 7 sacks from 2013-2015? I would let him play out the season and see how it goes. If he turns into JJ this season, then fine you pay him. And yes it would cost us more, but I would gladly pay the big season dividend if he earned it. That is what I hope happens, but it is unlikely. I think the more likely scenario is, Robert balls out big time. And we are all saying, William who?

      Challenge you to look at it more logically. He's not a pass rusher, think everyone accepts that. But there's a role, a winning role, that he excels at.I want to pay him like the 40-50th best DE, you bring up "if he turns into JJ". Watt is likely going to be a top 5 DE of all time.And you finish it in typical Buc fan fashion, thinking a Free Agent will over perform.

      A free agent with 27 career sacks.  Will has 7.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      When posting on a board such as this one in a thread very much like this one when you frequently should simply stop and let go.  J.C. now is that time I believe.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      Should be re-signed before camp. 4 years, $20-25M

      I am probably his #1 fan, but give him that much cheddar, based on?

      If you add 4 years, $20M to his 1.8M cap number now, it would average 4.36M over 5 years, 34th for DEs. By the end of his contract it will be closer to 50th.Would structure it2016- 4M guaranteed2017- 4M guaranteed 2018- 4.4M2019- 4.4M2020- 5M

      I dont know man, I love the guy, but I would like to see more production before writing the check.

      What's your goal? To get him signed for 3M a year instead of 4.36? Risk him getting to free agency for all that? This team has blown money free agent bums but we finally have a home grown player and now fans want to get cheap.

      A home grown player that has 7 sacks from 2013-2015? I would let him play out the season and see how it goes. If he turns into JJ this season, then fine you pay him. And yes it would cost us more, but I would gladly pay the big season dividend if he earned it. That is what I hope happens, but it is unlikely. I think the more likely scenario is, Robert balls out big time. And we are all saying, William who?

      Challenge you to look at it more logically. He's not a pass rusher, think everyone accepts that. But there's a role, a winning role, that he excels at.I want to pay him like the 40-50th best DE, you bring up "if he turns into JJ". Watt is likely going to be a top 5 DE of all time.And you finish it in typical Buc fan fashion, thinking a Free Agent will over perform.

      A free agent with 27 career sacks.  Will has 7.

      If you keep bringing up sack totals you don't get it.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      When posting on a board such as this one in a thread very much like this one when you frequently should simply stop and let go.  J.C. now is that time I believe.

      No. Gholston contract is going to be theme for all year. Can't wait to see how Licht screws this up. Collins and EDS made us all say "Donald and Jeremy who?", right guys?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      If you keep bringing up sack totals you don't get it.

      You want to give him a pass on the sacks, because he is good against the run?  How about a guy that can do both? That is the goal. And they do exist. That is the kind of guy you pay. Not a one trick pony.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1875

      When posting on a board such as this one in a thread very much like this one when you frequently should simply stop and let go.  J.C. now is that time I believe.

      No. Gholston contract is going to be theme for all year. Can't wait to see how Licht screws this up. Collins and EDS made us all say "Donald and Jeremy who?", right guys?

      I stopped right after No. 

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      Should be re-signed before camp. 4 years, $20-25M

      Agree with everything you've said about Gholston itt.  Would like a 4 year extension. I think 5 mil average on that is optimistic, but possible. He's set to make 1.7 this season.  Bump that to 5 and guarentee the first 2 years of the extension. Maybe.  Even if the extension does push to 25 mil range, Will is a player I would definitely lock up for that.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      When posting on a board such as this one in a thread very much like this one when you frequently should simply stop and let go.  J.C. now is that time I believe.

      No. Gholston contract is going to be theme for all year. Can't wait to see how Licht screws this up. Collins and EDS made us all say "Donald and Jeremy who?", right guys?

      I stopped right after No.

      Of course you did. Because Licht dumping homegrown players for free agents was a disaster. Close your eyes, cover your ears and pretend it didn't happen.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      If you keep bringing up sack totals you don't get it.

      You want to give him a pass on the sacks, because he is good against the run?  How about a guy that can do both? That is the goal. And they do exist. That is the kind of guy you pay. Not a one trick pony.

      Is 5-6 mil per season "paying" a DE?  I consider locking up a potential starter there, at that price, well into an expanding cap future a bargain. Especially one I have seen exceptional qualities from. Having linemen of his frame, who play hard and with great physicality, are important in any defensive set. More so if we are going to get real aggressive, imo.  He's shown me over the past few seasons that he will put out good effort with his snaps, even as they have increased in number.  I consider him as safe an investment of those positional resources as we can make.*It's not just that he is a top flight edge setter against the run, which he is.  I'm sure we will scheme pressure now. Will is extremely important if we want to bring pressure off his shoulder. He can crash down in these hybrid type sets and physically engage a tackle and a guard. Or a tackle and a tight end. Not let one of his blockers disengage and pick up the guy we have designed the defense to bring free.  His abilities are ones we can build effective schemes against run and pass, even if he isn't the lineman racking up the sacks.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10626

      If you keep bringing up sack totals you don't get it.

      You want to give him a pass on the sacks, because he is good against the run?  How about a guy that can do both? That is the goal. And they do exist. That is the kind of guy you pay. Not a one trick pony.

      Is 5-6 mil per season "paying" a DE?  I consider locking up a potential starter there, at that price, well into an expanding cap future a bargain. Especially one I have seen exceptional qualities from. Having linemen of his frame, who play hard and with great physicality, are important in any defensive set. More so if we are going to get real aggressive, imo.  He's shown me over the past few seasons that he will put out good effort with his snaps, even as they have increased in number.  I consider him as safe an investment of those positional resources as we can make.*It's not just that he is a top flight edge setter against the run, which he is.  I'm sure we will scheme pressure now. Will is extremely important if we want to bring pressure off his shoulder. He can crash down in these hybrid type sets and physically engage a tackle and a guard. Or a tackle and a tight end. Not let one of his blockers disengage and pick up the guy we have designed the defense to bring free.  His abilities are ones we can build effective schemes against run and pass, even if he isn't the lineman racking up the sacks.

      Fair points Sir.  The discussion I was trying to have with JC, was pay him now or later?  I vote for later. Lets see how he handles everything you mentioned above in Mike Smith's D. Whats the downside? If he has a great season, pay the man. If he looks lost, let him explore the free agent market if that is what he wants. Most of the young guys on the team, want to stick around, now that we have a young, up and coming franchise QB.  If he wants to go elsewhere, I wouldn't shed any tears to be honest. Ayers has a few good years left.  And has 3-4 times the sacks Will does. And next years first round draft pick, could very well be a DE.

    • williebrowntown

      Member
      Post count: 493

      If you keep bringing up sack totals you don't get it.

      You want to give him a pass on the sacks, because he is good against the run?  How about a guy that can do both? That is the goal. And they do exist. That is the kind of guy you pay. Not a one trick pony.

      Is 5-6 mil per season "paying" a DE?  I consider locking up a potential starter there, at that price, well into an expanding cap future a bargain. Especially one I have seen exceptional qualities from. Having linemen of his frame, who play hard and with great physicality, are important in any defensive set. More so if we are going to get real aggressive, imo.  He's shown me over the past few seasons that he will put out good effort with his snaps, even as they have increased in number.  I consider him as safe an investment of those positional resources as we can make.*It's not just that he is a top flight edge setter against the run, which he is.  I'm sure we will scheme pressure now. Will is extremely important if we want to bring pressure off his shoulder. He can crash down in these hybrid type sets and physically engage a tackle and a guard. Or a tackle and a tight end. Not let one of his blockers disengage and pick up the guy we have designed the defense to bring free.  His abilities are ones we can build effective schemes against run and pass, even if he isn't the lineman racking up the sacks.

      All very valid points. Versatility is a great thing to have along the front especially when we're going to be going in and out of odd and even man fronts. So many fans look at stat lines and see he doesn't have a double digit sack season under his belt and think he's simply expendable, when he's not. Depth is invaluable in the NFL and just ask our rosters of the last decade how easy it is to find a serviceable DL at any spot... other thank McCoy it's been a revolving door. Hopefully Spence grows into everything we all hope but let's not forget Ayers is a 10 year vet. If he can continue to play well, it's one less position along that front we have to worry about replacing. I like the Calais Campbell comparison... I see it. I don't think Will is or ever will be AS dominant but playing well enough to draw comparisons is a pretty good spot to be in.

    • farzillo

      Participant
      Post count: 548

      If you keep bringing up sack totals you don't get it.

      You want to give him a pass on the sacks, because he is good against the run?  How about a guy that can do both? That is the goal. And they do exist. That is the kind of guy you pay. Not a one trick pony.

      Is 5-6 mil per season "paying" a DE?  I consider locking up a potential starter there, at that price, well into an expanding cap future a bargain. Especially one I have seen exceptional qualities from. Having linemen of his frame, who play hard and with great physicality, are important in any defensive set. More so if we are going to get real aggressive, imo.  He's shown me over the past few seasons that he will put out good effort with his snaps, even as they have increased in number.  I consider him as safe an investment of those positional resources as we can make.*It's not just that he is a top flight edge setter against the run, which he is.  I'm sure we will scheme pressure now. Will is extremely important if we want to bring pressure off his shoulder. He can crash down in these hybrid type sets and physically engage a tackle and a guard. Or a tackle and a tight end. Not let one of his blockers disengage and pick up the guy we have designed the defense to bring free.  His abilities are ones we can build effective schemes against run and pass, even if he isn't the lineman racking up the sacks.

      Fair points Sir.  The discussion I was trying to have with JC, was pay him now or later?  I vote for later. Lets see how he handles everything you mentioned above in Mike Smith's D. Whats the downside? If he has a great season, pay the man. If he looks lost, let him explore the free agent market if that is what he wants. Most of the young guys on the team, want to stick around, now that we have a young, up and coming franchise QB.  If he wants to go elsewhere, I wouldn't shed any tears to be honest. Ayers has a few good years left.  And has 3-4 times the sacks Will does. And next years first round draft pick, could very well be a DE.

      I almost never agree with anything J.C. says but he is right on this one. Locking up Gholston now is the smart move. He is worth the 4.5 mil per year.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      Has size, motivation and talent.  He has an enforcer’s attitude – I like the guy a lot.This is the season where he gets used correctly (I hope) and seals a deal.I see no reason why he shouldn't be re-signed based on a decent year, this season.Some of y'all are unrealistic in your armchair GM deal making.Look at the league comparison vs his peers - this is how deals in the league are made. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/william-gholston/market-value/Although I think the evaluation is a bit high - a hometown discount is rare air and a solid DE who plays LE and Inside is a valuable commodity with his size and athleticism.JJ Watt?  Makes over 4 times what was suggested in this thread...

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1658

      I think re-signing him for $4.5-ish million per year is probably pretty reasonable.  But I also think that some of you are overrating him.  He’s worth that much because there’s enough cap space out there league-wide that good, young players get silly-large contracts.  (e.g. Vernon’s $17m/year) Not because he’s some vitally important player whose contract is going to be an important theme for the entire year.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      Has size, motivation and talent.  He has an enforcer's attitude - I like the guy a lot.This is the season where he gets used correctly (I hope) and seals a deal.I see no reason why he shouldn't be re-signed based on a decent year, this season.Some of y'all are unrealistic in your armchair GM deal making.Look at the league comparison vs his peers - this is how deals in the league are made. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/william-gholston/market-value/Although I think the evaluation is a bit high - a hometown discount is rare air and a solid DE who plays LE and Inside is a valuable commodity with his size and athleticism.JJ Watt?  Makes over 4 times what was suggested in this thread...

      Not sure how that site site is quantifying those numbers.  But did you notice that the contract they suggested would rank Gholston as the 13 highest paid DE? Do you really think Gholston is a top 20 DE? How many teams (and name some) would Gholston start for? I do hope you are right about being used correctly. It would be nice to have the DE position become a solid group. But unless the contract has zero guaranties, I would wait to extend him.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      I did -hence the comment about it being a bit high.He ranks well with his peers (less sacks, hurries) but he is a LDE...I don't think he is a top 20 guy - but at LDE, he'd start for quite a few teams in the league IMO.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      Michael Johnson got a 5 mil average when he resigned with the Bengals. AC got 4.25 average from the Falcons.  I wouldn’t want to pay that spotrac valuation, but that is the kind of number that would not be at all surprising if Will has the same season he did last year. He was second on our team in QB hurries behind McCoy in 2015. I’m not sure what some of you want to build your team around. We just pulled Ayers off the journeyman scrap heap for 6.5 per.  Waiting to extend him is not what you do with a player who has been in your program for multiple years and it is not the way you build cap value into your roster over time.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      Michael Johnson got a 5 mil average when he resigned with the Bengals. AC got 4.25 average from the Falcons.  I wouldn't want to pay that spotrac valuation, but that is the kind of number that would not be at all surprising if Will has the same season he did last year. He was second on our team in QB hurries behind McCoy in 2015. I'm not sure what some of you want to build your team around. We just pulled Ayers off the journeyman scrap heap for 6.5 per.  Waiting to extend him is not what you do with a player who has been in your program for multiple years and it is not the way you build cap value into your roster over time.

      I think the plan is very obvious.  Like you said, Ayers is a Journeyman.  Spence is hopefully one of the starting DE's of the future.  This is Gholston's and Smith's year to earn the other starting DE spot.  If not, then another DE will be drafted high next year. One will be kept for depth and the other probably let go to try and groom someone else. Ayers is the stop gap starter (maybe a bit more) until that other starting DE is found.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      We should have locked him up on the cheap already.I agree with JC, I will now go and whip myself like one of those old school Catholics for doing so.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      We should have locked him up on the cheap already.

      this could also be easier said than done.  What if we’ve already tried?  What if his agent is telling him he should have been a first rounder and he deserves a big contract?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      I think the plan is very obvious.  Like you said, Ayers is a Journeyman.  Spence is hopefully one of the starting DE's of the future.  This is Gholston's and Smith's year to earn the other starting DE spot.  If not, then another DE will be drafted high next year. One will be kept for depth and the other probably let go to try and groom someone else. Ayers is the stop gap starter (maybe a bit more) until that other starting DE is found.

      i don’t think it’s one or the other.  We need multiple bodies.  They are also very different types of players.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      It’s a contract year for Will.Good timing.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      We should have locked him up on the cheap already.

      this could also be easier said than done.  What if we've already tried?  What if his agent is telling him he should have been a first rounder and he deserves a big contract?

      Maybe but I'm just wishing that they did. I think he's earned a second contract.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      I think the plan is very obvious.  Like you said, Ayers is a Journeyman.  Spence is hopefully one of the starting DE's of the future.  This is Gholston's and Smith's year to earn the other starting DE spot.  If not, then another DE will be drafted high next year. One will be kept for depth and the other probably let go to try and groom someone else. Ayers is the stop gap starter (maybe a bit more) until that other starting DE is found.

      i don't think it's one or the other.  We need multiple bodies.  They are also very different types of players.

      Agreed they are very different and agreed we need multiple bodies.  But all of them can't be paid $6+ million a year. Smith is an RFA this year so it depends on his tender. Spence is still cheap on his rookie contract.  But if we pay Gholston $6+ million, that means they can't sign Smith to the same size contract the following year; unless they let Ayers go.  I highly doubt they will pay 3 DE's $6+ million a year; especially when two of them are not even starters.  I think Gholston has the edge because he can play inside or out.  And it would be a good problem to have if both light it up this year. Just being realistic down the road.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2829

      They can pay 3 DEs $18M combined, just get rid of the DT making 14

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