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    • tog

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      1) Winston is not the issue. You can’t call Winston a bust or get really angry with him after 4 games.  He’s a rookie.  While his play has been poor (and man has he thrown a lot of bad balls), it’s 4 games.  Rookies at the QB position can look great (RG3), mediocre (Luck), terrible (Aikman).  While you want Winston to play well you can’t say much about the future.2) As of 4 games, Mariota looks like the right pick. But it's an apples to oranges comparison.  Week 1 showed Mariota was more NFL ready, but it also showed that the Titans were most ready to call a rookie QB friendly game.  And it showed the Titans were clearly a better team no matter who was their QB. 3) Big issue: they lack leadership.  That's not on Winston, he's a rookie.  This team is soft and clearly knows it's a losing season.  Lavonte's comment about the penalty in Week 1 throwing them off their game just sums that up.  4) SR: Penalties aren't the issue.  The most penalized teams are frequently the best.  Last year the two teams with most penalties and penalty yards were Seattle and New England.  Look further back and you see Seattle, Denver, New England, etc. as heavily penalized teams every year.  Least penalized team last year? Jacksonville.Focusing on penalties, which I have been guilty of as well, fits a nice narrative about poor coaching.  And maybe you could do a study and show WHICH penalties matter.  Maybe bad teams have illegal formation penalties while good teams get lots of false starts because they have the ball longer.  But without that information, ignore penalties.5) Firing Lovie won't fix this.  While he deserves to be fired, this issue goes so far beyond him.  Sure, McCoy, Lavonte, Verner, etc. all have played worse under his defence.  But the reality is that both coaches and players come here to die. The Bucs are just like the Browns.  That's the type of organization they are.  This team is not just terrible but it's boring to watch and has been that way for years.  And unless Winston takes huge steps forward in the next couple years and carries this organization, there's nothing else that will bring positive change.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 2169

      Jameis deserves some criticism for the results but there’s also something to be said when Josh Norman tells his team BEFORE a play that it’ll be coming at him…either he’s got Ms Cleo in his headset or something/someone is tipping the Bucs hand…I’ll leave that point for you to marinate on…Also on that note, Tampa has focused on landing large receivers and don't really have a quick-twitch guy that can get in and out of breaks to create space for themselves (leaving little room for throwing error)...Jameis hasn't been consistent hitting those locations as we'd like so that adds to the problem.All points by OP are valid especially #5...this isn't just a coaching issue...it is organizational as mentioned previously by myself and several others.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 169

      3) Big issue: they lack leadership.  That’s not on Winston, he’s a rookie.  This team is soft and clearly knows it’s a losing season.  Lavonte’s comment about the penalty in Week 1 throwing them off their game just sums that up.  This is the biggest issue I see on the defensive side of the ball.  Winston being a rookie with 2 rookie lineman and 2 second year skill players (Evans, ASJ) I expect there to be a lot of growing pains ...but there's no such excuse for the defense.  These are all veteran players who "fit" the system per the organization.  But I see no fire in this group or no one rallying the troops to clean up and play their position. 

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1858

      Also on that note, Tampa has focused on landing large receivers and don't really have a quick-twitch guy that can get in and out of breaks to create space for themselves (leaving little room for throwing error)...Jameis hasn't been consistent hitting those locations as we'd like so that adds to the problem.

      I actually think large WRs help out a rookie WR more.  Because of their wingspan and ability to box out DBs, you have larger room for error.  The space issue is also largely an issue of route-running.  As long as you're not SLOW (which players like Boldin, VJax and Marshall now are) you can create lots of space. Winston is just having trouble with making the right read, being consistent with his mechanics, and WRs dropping balls.  No problem, right? It'll be a long year.

      JohnBuc06 wrote:
      This is the biggest issue I see on the defensive side of the ball.  Winston being a rookie with 2 rookie lineman and 2 second year skill players (Evans, ASJ) I expect there to be a lot of growing pains ...but there's no such excuse for the defense.  These are all veteran players who "fit" the system per the organization.  But I see no fire in this group or no one rallying the troops to clean up and play their position. I agree, it's bad.  I've definitely lost a lot respect for McCoy and David as leaders.  Maybe Morris is available to DC?Maybe it's time for a 3-4? haha

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