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    • tampaspicer

      Participant
      Post count: 3477

      I find it hard to believe that Trump has gained more supporters since winning the 2016 election. I’d like to know what has been your personal experiences talking to people that will not vote for Trump again in 2020 and who you know that didn’t vote for him 2016 but will in 20202? I myself will not vote for him again and know of a few that will not either. I also don’t know anyone that didn’t vote him in 2016 that will vote for him in 2020. What have you or haven’t you noticed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      The poll certainly suggest that he’s lost supporters, notably suburban women

      And just like there was a silent group who voted for him in 2016 I am sure there will be a silent group that vote against him in 2020

      I am sure there are many 2016 anti-establishment voters who will sit out 2020

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      I know about 15 Trump voters plus a few from this online community.

      All but a handful will not vote for him but many won’t vote for Biden either.

      I know a bunch of Bernie Bros too and my small sample says that more of them will bite the bullet and vote for Biden… some still will vote Bernie but none will vote Trump this time (I knew about 6 or 7 people that were flaming libs that voted for Trump to say eff you HRC).

      both of my parents are for sure voting Trump.

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    • OneTruthisBack

      Participant
      Post count: 1816

      polls arent trustworthy at all. they had Hillary 87 to 93 % winning with every single poll. You have to go by enthusiastic support and Trump has more than last election. Sure there is some hatred from marxist socialists but look at the rallies, the youtube views. Trump is more popular than ever.

      Frankly, I dont know see why anyone would not like what he has done. Greatest economy in the history of the wrold, highest Dow Jones, lowest unemployment for women, blacks, hispanics, and whites …before the Chinese virus. He allows states to have powers instead of consolidating to Washington, stregnthened the military, he is for law and order and the police, he is against ILLEGAL immigration, is building the wall, placed a gay man in charge of the DNI the highest office ever for an admitted homosexual (Obama if you count the ones the didnt announce it openly) Trump is pro-America and the safety and well being of its citizens.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Lol. OT the spokesperson for Trumpism

      OT also thinks we are under the control of reptiles and they Sandy Hook was fake And that Clinton ran a pedophile ring from a pizza joint …, and…,

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    • tampaspicer

      Participant
      Post count: 3477

      This isn’t about polls. This is about your own personal experiences in regards to who you come in contact with everyday.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      I have friends on both sides, diehard delusional Trumpers who will vote for him again and moderate GOP who will not

      I don’t not know of anyone he’s won over since 2016 (someone who voted against him in 2016 but will vote for him in 2020)

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    • tampaspicer

      Participant
      Post count: 3477

      I’m worried about what kind of stunt he might pull when he realizes he’s not going to be re-elected. His tweets and speeches are becoming much more aggressive. Almost like he’s not speaking to the entire country but more to a certain group. As the POTUS there are certain issues you can’t take sides on. He’s clearly crossed that line.

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      That’s exactly what he’s doing…

      Dude is a fascist if he existed in a different era or different country and didn’t have checks/balance.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      My one example:

      Guy has been a dedicated liberal all his life. Very smart.—Has engaged in activist actions.

      Father was an ambassador to a middle european country.

      Defied his father and joined the hari-Krishna’s.

      Last week he said, I just can’t abide what the far left is trying to do with law and order.

      I’m going to vote for Trump.

      Totally surprised.

      Just gave a sort of a non-committal answer like “I understand that—-and let it drop.

      This is just one answer and I am not drawing conclusions.

      But it was the absolutely last person I ever thought would say this.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      “ Almost like he’s not speaking to the entire country but more to a certain group. As the POTUS there are certain issues you can’t take sides on. He’s clearly crossed that line.”

      This is true. And counter to the role of a President

      You may be able to speak to part of the country if they are the majority but ultimately governing in our type of government takes leadership not brute force. It will be interesting to se how it goes in November. Long way from now and many things can change but right now he is easily the most deeply disliked President in my lifetime except with his immediate base.

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      Most people just want to heal. So many unfortunate things have happened that are not Trump’s fault, but having real leadership would have helped… I think many people see this and even if they hate liberal policies they are willing to deal with that for 4 years.

      Bill Kristol and Joe Walsh are good examples

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Exactly I agree

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      And let’s get real… Biden isn’t a liberal. He might try to appease the Bernie base…that might change his MO.

      But he will be more like Obama. The best thing Biden can do is almost nothing. Bring the parties back to the center, show empathy, unite us, don’t die.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Again, I agree

      Its funny because you see the Trump GOP try to push alleged “low enthusiasm” for Biden and that is ironic given Tulsa but enthusiasm FOR Biden is a bit of a red herring because there appears to be TONS of enthusiasm AGAINST Trump. People who will vote FOR Biden solely to get rid of Trump, Like Biden is a placeholder or stabilizer, as your comments suggest.

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    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13938

      [postquote quote=1292675]

      Glad you posted this.

      Here’s my one example:

      Guy has been a dedicated conservative his entire life. Very smart. Active in his community.

      His father was a West Point grad.

      He was a career military vet.

      Over the weekend, we chatted and he told me he could no longer support what the far right stands for and their blatant acts of bigotry, moral corruptness, lack of fiscal responsibility, etc.

      Said he wasn’t sure who he was voting for, but knew for sure it wasn’t going to be Trump.

      “I hear ya’, brother. How far has our country fallen that these are the 2 candidates that we have to choose from” was my response.

      This is simply one answer, IB.

      And, like you, I’m not drawing any conclusions.

      But, this decorated vet was the last person I ever thought I’d hear say that so openly.

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      And I truly means this, if he wins I will not support a re-election bid. Its 4 and done.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      “he told me he could no longer support what the far right stands for and their blatant acts of bigotry, moral corruptness, lack of fiscal responsibility, etc.”

      I presume that many conservatives and people who are disillusioned with government, walked along a path with Trump for a few years that required them to excuse some of his lunacy because they believed her served some greater good whether that was a strong economy or fear of socialism or a return of manufacturing jobs or even just an end to “political correctness.”

      However, at some point, and even if they would not publicly admit it, ANY PRINCIPLED person (and especially a fiscal conservative) is essentially FORCED to peel away from Trump because his conduct recently is OBJECTIVELY bad and UNDENIABLY SELF-INTERESTED. That last part, in bold, should be anathema to actual conservatives because they value their country and rule of law above everything

      This is precisely the point that Bolton – an arch conservative – makes when he says, just yesterday:

      “”There really isn’t any guiding principle — that I was able to discern other than — what’s good for Donald Trump’s reelection.

      “Now, look, you can’t take the politics out of politics. It plays a role in every aspect of decision making in the executive branch. But there’s no coherent basis, no strategy, no philosophy. And decisions are made in a very scatter-shot fashion, especially in the potentially mortal field of national security policy. This is a danger for the republic.”

      It is simply undeniable that Trump would tear apart the country for his own gain because that is what he has done from Russia to Ukraine to China to Tulsa just this week where he insisted on a rally for bis self-preservation that even his supporters were mostly smart enough to avoid. In that sparsely attended rally, he wasted peoples time with drinking water and insane racist quips like “Kung flu” (because he is deflecting from his own culpability). 10 people (8 staff and 2 secret service). have now tested positive.

      People understand INTUITIVELY that he is EXACTLY what Bolton says, a person whose only object is “what’s good for Donald Trump’s reelection.” It simply undeniable that he has painted himself into an electoral corner and so he is now trying to get re-elected by appealing to the WORST corners of our society and doing it in a way that is REPULSIVE to many traditional conservatives, who, among other things, fought and died for the freedoms that Trump is now actually tearing down TO SAVE HIMSELF

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    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13938

      Don’t know a lot about Jorgensen, but from the little that I’ve read, it’s who I’d vote for.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      no hard core Trumpette here is ever going to agree with me, but they dont need to.

      just look at the polling and look at the groups of people Trump has lost as a result of mostly CV and race

      now Trump is spreading lies about vote by mail even when he and many other and the military routinely vote by mail

      hes desperate

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      [postquote quote=1292782]

      I assume there are many who share your view and will do the same and most of them — going by the polling – are 2016 Trump supporters or at least traditionally GOP

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Just one example, but Trump’s own CHOICES halved his support with evangelicals, previosuly his most ardent supporters.

      Why?

      because some of them have basic common sense.

      Here’s the group who he reached:

      “On Monday when Donald Trump raised overhead a Bible – the Sword of the Spirit, to believers – he unwittingly cleaved his loyal Christian supporters into two camps.

      His most ardent evangelical supporters saw it as a blow against evil and described his walk from the White House to St John’s Episcopal church, over ground violently cleared of protesters, as a “Jericho walk”.

      The Rev Johnnie Moore, president of the Congress of Christian Leaders, described Trump in shepherd-like terms on Twitter:

      “I will never forget seeing @POTUS @realDonaldTrump slowly & in-total-command walk from the @WhiteHouse across Lafayette Square to St. John’s Church defying those who aim to derail our national healing by spreading fear, hate & anarchy. After just saying, ‘I will keep you safe.’”

      here’s the group he lost:

      ““Blessed are the peacemakers! Blessed are the merciful! It’s right there in the Sermon on the Mount,” said John Fea, a professor of American history at Messiah College. “Just read Jesus.”

      Trump’s photo opportunity required police to attack and push away protesters against police brutality. He walked surrounded by key civilian and military advisers, some of whom later said they were caught unaware by the stunt and the violence that preceded it. Some evangelical leaders said they felt similarly aghast, watching the event unfold.

      “Pelting people with rubber bullets and spraying them with teargas for peacefully protesting is morally wrong,” said Russell Moore, president of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention. “What we need right now is moral leadership – from all of us, in the churches, in the police departments, in the courts, and in the White House. The Bible tells us so. So do our own consciences.”

      The day’s events left Moore “alarmed”, he said.

      The staunchest of evangelicals, 90-year-old televangelist Pat Robertson, split from Trump on Tuesday.

      He told his television viewers of the president: “He said, ‘I’m ready to send in military troops if the nation’s governors don’t act to quell the violence that has rocked American cities.’ A matter of fact, he spoke of them as being jerks. You just don’t do that, Mr President. It isn’t cool!”

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    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13938

      I’d actually like to hear JBear’s take on Jorgensen.

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    • OneTruthisBack

      Participant
      Post count: 1816

      I absolutely get a kick out of some idiots calling Trump a Nazi. Realize if he were a REAL Nazi the people saying this would be “disappeared”. PERIOD. A REAL Nazi would take absolute control and use force to achieve the desired outcome without reservation. And he would have long ago taken complete control of the media – like Stalin, China, Musolini, and Hitler

      If you are calling Trump a Nazi YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      OT saying Trump isn’t evil enough

      [postquote quote=1292950]

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    • OneTruthisBack

      Participant
      Post count: 1816

      im guessing history isnt your strong suit

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      [postquote quote=1292976]

      Says the revisionist

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Just think about how delusional that statement is coming from OT who thinks Sandy Hook history is about crisis actors, Clinton history is about pedophiles and pizza and whose own HISTORY includes failed prediction and failed prediction, including today’s prediction in another thread that Gov Cuomo will be indicted for 3rd degree murder

      [postquote quote=1292976]

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      As an aside, do credible people say Trump IS a Nazi. Plenty of legit POLITICAL comparisons but IS an actual Nazis?

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    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1292777]

      Good luck with that. Almost never works like that but maybe… If he can no longer hold his apple sauce spoon… someone with morals will step in.

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    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1292796]

      I like her. I will most likely vote for her at this point but she has almost no political experience which I personally do see as a good thing but it pretty much disqualifies her from serious contention…. not that the libertarians ever seriously contend but at least Gary Johnson had been a serious politician. Amash would have been great… ahhh well.

      I do hope she gets some coverage to talk about liberty…. wake some people up, at least a few hundred of them lol.

      I’ve officially ruled out voting for Joe Biden but it has less to do with Joe Biden than it does with my disgust of the radical left and seeing the parties on the rooftops of all those woke liberals is already going to be difficult. Looking forward to the rounding up of the undesireables. lol It’s not a fix for our ills.

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      In four years, if Biden wins, I’ll consider a Libertarian like Amash.

      For now, I’m voting against Trump for what I presume will be a lame duck president

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    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13938

      @jbear wrote:

      I like her. I will most likely vote for her at this point but she has almost no political experience which I personally do see as a good thing but it pretty much disqualifies her from serious contention…. not that the libertarians ever seriously contend but at least Gary Johnson had been a serious politician. Amash would have been great… ahhh well.

      Yeah.

      The more I read about her, the more it solidifies my vote.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Jorgensen is against several things you guys support, no?

      Also, think about trying to sell this VERY STRICT Libertarian philosophy TODAY, with CV climbing again because of Re-opening

      “ She has said the government’s response to COVID-19 is “the biggest assault on our liberties in our lifetime,” because of both restrictions on individual behavior such as stay-at-home orders”

      WE ARE IN THIS BAD POSITION WITH CV – relative to other similar countries – precisely because we had a President and a party peddling a similar view

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    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1293107]

      I’m glad to hear that. One thing that has always bothered me about people and politics is that the majority of people will try to talk you out of voting for a third party. Their argument being that you’re wasting your vote which is a bunch of baloney. If Libertarians got 6 or 8 percent of the vote it would be a huge deal…. for the future. Like a stepping stone. So a vote for a Libertarian is a wasted vote until it isnt. Like the saying, “you don’t know what you don’t know”. Or Einstein “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”…. when a person thinks their voting for one of the major parties is going to change anything. If you want change, do something different. Having only two parties got us Donald Trump vs. Joe Biden and Trump vs. Hillary before that. None of those people are the best of us but it seems the most interesting people with the most innovative ideas are not viable in the current system.

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    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1293114]

      Sorry I agree with her there. I don’t like the orders and we are not China…. we shouldn’t try to be China because China sucks at liberty. We’re supposed to be good at liberty…. suposedly. Don’t order me around for my own good.

      Things have a way of turning around and I don’t mean a V shaped recovery or some type of politically motivated statement. I mean that keeping the economy going will eventually have benefits even a second wave now makes the likelyhood of a later wave diminished assuming the antibodies stay active. The fact is, you don’t know what will happen or how it will play out. Every action we take to shut down also has consequences. It is what it is. I’ll stand with freedom every day.

      But yeah, lets wear masks and socially distance… of course. By choice.

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    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      https://joj2020.com/issues-jo-jorgensen/

      Regarding Jo Jorgensen’s political positions I don’t really see very much I disagree with.

      You might be thinking I’d differ on the environment but that’s not true. I love the environment I just don’t think mandating cuts to this and that that will drastically hinder the economy is the right way to do things. She’s talking about cutting regulations on off grid energy and using nuclear power along with other renewables… sounds pretty good to me.

      Immigration being the other issue. I’ve always been for allowing legal immigration. All I want is for the laws to be enforced and for people coming to at least be accounted for. So I don’t think she’s necessarily going against my view when she talks about opening up immigration quotas and borders. In theory. W also proposed opening up quotas for legal immigration the last time immigration was approached by congress. His plan locked down employers to legal workers so that American workers couldn’t be exploited.

      She’s as close to what I want as anyone including both the Paul’s Justin Amash and Thomas Massey.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Agree with this from JBear, although it’s a little more than that

      “Having only two parties got us Donald Trump vs. Joe Biden and Trump vs. Hillary before that. None of those people are the best of us but it seems the most interesting people with the most innovative ideas are not viable in the current system.”

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      @JBear – I am only pointing this out because it’s so fundamentally flawed

      “ rry I agree with her there. I don’t like the orders and we are not China…. we shouldn’t try to be China because China sucks at liberty. We’re supposed to be good at liberty…. suposedly. Don’t order me around for my own good.”

      MASKS ARE NOT ABOUT ORDERING YOU AROUND FOR YOUR OWN GOOD. THEY ARE ABOUT EVERYONES GOOD – ie stopping the spread.

      You, her and the policy statement are wrong on that basis and it’s mind blowing because the actual point about the spread has been made REPEATEDLY by the medical professionals. You’re proving that where you get your info matters. Trump and the right push masks as a freedom thing. It’s NOT

      to use the same topic we have discussed before, the PUBLIC HEALTH campaign about smoking is not about saving you from yourself – it’s about the larger cost to society

      Pretty hard to be on the correct dude of an argument when you have the premise wrong

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      In Florida right now, supposedly impervious young people who went out during reopening BECAUSE THE VIRUS KILLS OLD PEOPLE …. are now contributing to the death because they spread the disease.

      Further proof your comment about masks and individual liberty are misplaced

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    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13938

      @jbear wrote:

      I’m glad to hear that. One thing that has always bothered me about people and politics is that the majority of people will try to talk you out of voting for a third party. Their argument being that you’re wasting your vote which is a bunch of baloney.

      Yeah. I’m 100% in agreement with this statement right here.

      And, I know it’s really popular movement right now on social media, etc. especially from Dems.

      “A vote for a 3rd party candidate is vote for Trump”.

      My response is “that’s utter bullshit”. Using that logic, it’s just as much as a vote for Biden.

      But, in reality, it’s a vote for who it’s placed for. I’m going to vote for who, for the most part, encompasses my beliefs. And, as you stated, sooner or later a 3rd party candidate will start to gain more traction with the general populace if people voted that way versus “voting for the lesser of two evils”.

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    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1293219]

      I can say the same to you since I was talking about stay at home orders not masks. I wear a mask when I go to any business or inside with other people. What she’s saying has nothing to do with masks.

      The stay at home order comparison is most relevant when comparing us with China or any socialist state since that is what they do. People were getting arrested for going outside…. It was only threatened here for the most part.

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    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1293220]

      Again, didn’t say anything about masks. I think people got careless. Especially young people. I hope that trend has reversed itself now. But I’m all for doing business as normally as possible but fine with masks as a request from government and a demand from private business. Thats just how I see it.

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    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13938

      [postquote quote=1293114]

      Any examples?

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    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1293226]

      Well said. If more people would think like that we’d be on the road to recovering as a Country.

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    • DonkeyHunter

      Spectator
      Post count: 13938

      [postquote quote=1293231]

      Agreed.

      Unfortunately, I’m not sure if we’ll ever see a MASS contingent of the country buck the “vote the party line” trend, and actually grow a sack and think for themselves.

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [quote quote=1293193]If Libertarians got 6 or 8 percent of the vote it would be a huge deal…. for the future. Like a stepping stone.[/quote]

      It’s gone up in each of the last four elections, with 2016 being a large jump:

      2004: 0.32%
      2008: 0.40%
      2012: 0.99%
      2016: 3.29%

      If the pattern continues, 6% is a possibility – though unlikely. The two party system is a large reason why this country has gone to shit. Hopefully more people are waking up to that.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Weird though because you Libertarians keep harping about a TWO party system but you ignore – scratch that, you DENY – the bad deeds of one

      Buggsy, one of your many bad claims on her was the suggestion that GOP voter suppression wasn’t real.

      Care to retract that?

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [postquote quote=1293257]

      Closing a polling location isn’t suppressing votes, you race-baiting POS. Unsurprisingly, the TDS twittersphere or MotherJones (nice source, Mr. Cronkite) doesn’t cover the other states that close superfluous polling locations, it’s just the “racist” ones. There are many reasons to close a polling location, i.e. early voting, rise in mail-in voting, lack of action at certain polling locations, budget, etc.. It’s never been easier to vote in this country, but that doesn’t stop those that procrastinate to bitch when they have to wait in a line at rush hour on voting day. The concept of personal responsibility is foreign to big government leftists like yourself.

      Try staying on topic, nutbag. If you’d like to talk about voter suppression, go open thread #8,459 to do so. You’ll be able to have a long conversation with yourself, as with most of your dumbass threads, since I have zero desire to respond to any of your nonsense any further.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Great example of intellectual dishonest by Buggsy. I see why you like Trump

      Buggsy – the VOTING RIGHT ACT required the polling places to ensure equal opportunity to vote. Obviously, if you take 80% of the polling locations away in a black neighborhood you reduce the votes coming out of the District because polls are open for set times.

      They just had real world, timely examples in GA and KY. Where black voters should in the District courts to keep reduced polling locations open late SO THEY COULD VOTE

      Lmao

      [postquote quote=1293263]

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      The two party system is a product of us.

      It would be no different in a three party system.

      It’s all tribalism.

      Libertarians are just a minority… it doesn’t make you/them any different than liberal/Democrat or Conservative/GOP tribalism

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      HEY BUGGSY

      Section 5 of the VRA was called “pre-clearance” because it required the states in the map I posted to obtain clearance from the FEDS before changing anything that would INFRINGE on the right to vote:

      “Under Section 5 of the VRA, jurisdictions with a demonstrated record of racial discrimination in voting were required to submit all proposed voting changes to
      the U.S. Department of Justice or the U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C., for “preclearance” in advance of implementation. The jurisdictions were required to
      prove that the proposed voting change would not deny or adversely affect the right to vote on the basis of race, color, or an eligible voter’s membership in a
      language minority group. Preclearance was a crucial element of the VRA because it ensured that no new voting law or practice, such as closing or moving a
      polling place,
      would be implemented in a place with a history of racial discrimination in voting unless that law was first determined not to discriminate against
      voters of color. However, in Shelby, the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated the formula that determined which states and jurisdictions are covered by Section 5 of
      the VRA and thus are required to undergo preclearance. Without that determination, the preclearance provision essentially became inoperable.


      BUGGSY
      :

      such as closing or moving a
      polling place

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Buggsy – “Closing a polling location isn’t suppressing votes, you race-baiting POS.”

      Within the last month, black voters in GA and KY had to sue to get polling stations to stay open late because people were unable to vote due to long lines.

      Of course, closing polling stations suppresses voting. Polling stations are not open 24/7

      This is precisely why Trump is fighting mail-in voting. KY had almost 1 million mail in votes as a counterbalance to closed polling locations

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      [postquote quote=1293272]

      Weird

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Weird. Buggsy, posted in one thread but ignored this thread

      Just coincidence

      😉

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [quote quote=1293416]Weird. Buggsy, posted in one thread but ignored this thread

      Just coincidence[/quote]

      Or, and follow along here nutbag, it’s exactly what I told you I’d do. It’s definitely one of those two, dipshit.

      Exactly how many times must you be told that I want no dialogue with someone as intellectually dishonest, shameless, and altogether loathsome as yourself? I’ve been down your double-talking rabbit holes before, and I have no desire to return to the black hole that is you. I’ve told you on multiple occasions I’m only interested in mocking you, but even that’s too difficult to grasp apparently.

      String-post away, Mr. Cronkite, in yet another thread you’ve successfully derailed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Saying this AFTER posting that closing polling sites is not voter suppression and being shown that the act is SPECIFICALLY addressed in the VRA

      “ no dialogue with someone as intellectually dishonest”

      😳

      😂😂😂😂

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    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1293424]

      You’re an embarrassment. I know that you think you’re spending your time winning arguments all day long but you are clearly delusional. Nobody wants to go down another one of your rabbit holes myself included. Everything you’ve said to try to derail this thread is complete and utter bullshit.

      As long as all people are allowed to vote and the coverage is roughly equal for all, my libertarianish view of fairness and equality is completely mollified. Equality means the polls close at 8 so they close at 8 for everyone end of story. But your insistence on calling any denial of special rules that might hurt you in your knocking on doors and either paying people to vote or just dragging them kicking and screaming to the polls as some form of voter suppression is disingenuous, manipulative, twisted and moronic.

      I mean that. Out of all your worst arguments this voter suppression bs is the absolute dumbest and most morally and intellectually bankrupt line of arsenic laced cocaine, you and your mother jones, Racheal Maddow cult have ever dumped on the glass tabletop in the VIP room at a chippendales show…. like ever.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Hahaha

      JBear your boring ass “let me just post the opposite” is not only tired, it’s see through.

      This is in your rant:

      “ As long as all people are allowed to vote and the coverage is roughly equal for all”

      🤣😂

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    • tampaspicer

      Participant
      Post count: 3477

      I think everyone needs to go down a rabbit hole to figure out what’s best in life. Spiritual healing is good for everyone. That’s my Ted Talk for today.

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    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1293460]

      You have 4 and a half months to figure out how to vote. Any person who can’t do that doesn’t deserve to vote. Voter suppression in 2020 is a made up concept. It doesn’t exist. The entire concept harkens back to a time when black people really were discouraged from voting. That doesn’t exist today and for you to say it does…. repeatedly just points out that you really are a race baiting POS like most hard core Democrats are.

      It seems that you and your ilk wouldn’t be happy until we put a damned voting booth in every minority houseold’s living room. You’re insane.

      Please wait…

    • tampaspicer

      Participant
      Post count: 3477

      The gloves are off now. LOL

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      JBear and Buggsy get clowned by themselves repeatedly and then all posts after devolve to nonsense

      Buggsy – closing polling places is NOT Voter Suppression

      Response – here is the Voting a Right Act so you can see that it specifically addresses poll closures are voter suppression

      Buggsy – “I don’t converse with intellectually dishonest ….”. 😂

      JBear – “it’s not voter suppression as long as everyone has reasonably equal access”

      Response – no shit that’s why it suppression to leave only one poll in a Black county with 600k residents

      JBear (thinks time himself “yeah that was a dumb comment by me”)

      JBear (thinks to himself “yeah following Buggsy is always a mistake”)

      JBear – name call, deflect, change subject, create strawman… name call

      😂😂😂

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    • tampaspicer

      Participant
      Post count: 3477

      Cyber hugs for everyone. Chill the fuck out!!!!!

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [quote quote=1293507]It seems that you and your ilk wouldn’t be happy until we put a damned voting booth in every minority houseold’s living room. You’re insane.[/quote]

      With mail-in, absentee, or early voting available in damn-near every state, that pretty much exists now.

      But that doesn’t stop the race-baiting POS’s from ranting and raving about GOP VOTER SUPRESSION!!!!! of minorities. Hell, those whack jobs even call putting a stamp on your mail a “poll tax.” These people are lunatics, with Mr. Cronkite being their poster boy.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Buggsy, if it makes you so upset to be wrong you might consider a new hobby? Or maybe a new screen name?

      Team Trump

      VotRightsA

      😂😂😂

      Kidding but it’s funny to watch you keep posting when you hit something so obviously wrong. It’s not a matter of opinion that the VRA specifically addresses reduction of polling places.

      [postquote quote=1293523]

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      [postquote quote=1293518]

      All in good fun.

      😂

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Buggsy – “ With mail-in, absentee, or early voting available in damn-near every state, that pretty much exists now.”

      Intellectual honesty opportunity here Buggsy

      True or False.

      1) your first comment was that reducing polling location was not voter suppression (“ Closing a polling location isn’t suppressing votes, you race-baiting POS.”)

      2) your boy Trump and the GOP are fighting mail voting.

      😁

      Please wait…

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      Wait I thought alk vote by mail is fraud?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      [postquote quote=1293536]

      Except when the voters last name is Trump or Pence or McEnany or ….

      Now mail in voting is the correction for the reduction of polling places that is NOT voter suppression …

      You race-baiting POS!!

      (Gotta throw that in! Keep Candace happy)

      😂😂😂

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      The argument is so bad.

      Closing polling locations is ok because you can vote my mail?

      Ignore all the hilarious assumptions made that minorities have the same access to…well… anything.

      If vote by mail were ubiquitous then we wouldn’t have these polling station problems that in THIS DAY AND AGE should be updated to vote by mail…

      But which is it? Is it voter suppression OR is vote by mail ok?

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [quote quote=1293539]

      Ignore all the hilarious assumptions made that minorities have the same access to…well… anything.[/quote]

      It must be my white privilege that assumes minorities have the same access to a $0.50 stamp like me. How can those folks that can’t afford a fuggin’ stamp afford gas to get to the polls? Something has to be done about this! The lack of “access” is unacceptable!

      And FTR, I don’t understand all of the negative attention towards mail-in voting. I haven’t seen the evidence that suggests there is more fraud there vs voting at the polls. Since you don’t remember the numerous other instances I’ve given you where I disagree with Trump, try to stick this one in your memory bank Mr. Mayor.

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      ^^^ this post is the very essence of white privilege.

      You think voting is about a stamp.

      Read
      A
      Fucking
      History
      Book

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [postquote quote=1293576]

      I put two stamps on a piece of mail the other day just for the hell of it. My white privilege knows no bounds.

      The last time you brought up history books, you suddenly got too busy to respond after getting waxed. Hell, you still haven’t – which is a solid move on your part Mr. Mayor.

      Please wait…

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      Not gonna lie, that first part gave me a chuckle.

      Kudos

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      You’ll have to refresh my memory on this waxing.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      [postquote quote=1293575]

      Literally today’s news

      “ In response, Ken Paxton, Texas’ attorney general, told the justices that “there is no constitutional right to vote by mail.”

      “So long as a state has permitted voting through other means, which Texas has,” Mr. Paxton wrote, “the right to vote is not implicated.”

      Even assuming that discrimination based on age violates the 26th Amendment, Mr. Paxton wrote, the solution would be to bar older people from voting by mail rather than allowing younger people to do so.”

      Texas REPUBLICANS FIGHTING VOTE BY MAIL

      Not that this is news but Buggsy is both uniformed and full of shit and this thread shows both. Didn’t even know the VRA specifically dealt with poll closures. Learned it did and rather than own it, pivoted you the biggest hypocritical bullshit claim “it’s not voter suppression because they can vote by mail” fully aware that the GOP fights vote by mail.

      Ridiculous.

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      Think about this philosophically…

      If you think “your side” has it right and that more Americans agree with it… put the cards on the fucking table.

      Guarantee if you made every person vote the GOP would get less than 30% of the vote.

      They are competitive specifically due to voter suppression.

      They certainly don’t win very many popular votes.

      They are scared to make voting easy.

      Again.

      THEY ARE SCARED TO MAKE VOTING EASY

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      What could be more unAmerican than impeding another American from voting ?

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [quote quote=1293588]They are scared to make voting easy.

      Again.

      THEY ARE SCARED TO MAKE VOTING EASY[/quote]

      There have never been more avenues and opportunities to vote in this country. It’s never been easier to vote in this country, Mr. Mayor. You boys keep crying wolf, but it’s simply not reality.

      The complete and utter lack of personal responsibility, usually on the left side of the aisle, is pitiful. The reality is most people are too damn lazy to vote and they can’t be bothered to do so. Their vote isn’t being suppressed.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      “Those shiftless n ——era should get up early and vote”

      This was one of the big southerner arguments against the VRA

      Of course, the obvious response is that it shouldn’t be a burden to exercise the most fundamental right in our democracy

      Which is why you get the bogus “fraud” claim to justify the hurdles

      And also why you get Buggsy’s self own: “removing polling location is NOT suppression because we have other ways to vote (that we object to)”

      Years and years of that transparent bigotry is about to come crashing down …. at the hands of Trump?

      Who knows

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      This quote below is exactly right and if you understand that the fraud claim is bogus —. PER A COMMISSION FORMED BY TRUMP – then it should be obvious that the pro-Trump arguments here are equally bogus

      If that’s not enough proof, the Trumpettes have put an exclamation point on the proof with the one completely circular argument that necessarily collapses on itself

      1 reducing poll places us not suppression because you can vote “so many other ways”

      2 we don’t want you to be able to vote “so many other ways”

      [postquote quote=1293588]

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      Biggs… I’m all for personal responsibility but voting should be EASY.

      It should be a national paid holiday.

      It should be universal vote by mail.

      We need better voter turnout and I think it has very little to do with picking yourself up by your bootstraps.

      Marginalized groups have historically not voted BECAUSE of voter suppression. Along with other socio-economic factors that you can’t just ignore because something is easy for you to do.

      This isn’t about handouts or the nanny state or personal responsibility.

      The ease of voting is wildly inconsistent… with COVID you’d think every state would want to move to vote by mail but I guess when you think it’s a world wide hoax made up by Soros to make Trump lose the election, it isn’t surprising that it isn’t taken seriously and that we are going to get hit with a shitty second wave that BY THE WAY killed all momentum in the stock market.

      But I digress and I go back to my main point.

      If we put all the cards on the table, every person is forced to vote (obviously impossible) the GOP would cease to exist.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      This:

      “ If we put all the cards on the table, every person is forced to vote (obviously impossible) the GOP would cease to exist.”

      Is precisely what is happening in the country today. The Trump GOP has positioned itself as the party of white fear and white fear (racism, invasion versus immigration, deep state, Antifa, QAnon conspiracies etc) is a distinct minority position that you see in most of the Trumpette posts here. Every hard core Trumpette here is connected to one or more of the white fear categories I mentioned.

      This is why a substantial segment of the GOP has turned against Trump. This leaves white fear Trumpism fighting for its existence so they will willingly overlook Russia, Ukraine, Swampy Trump … all those things… to “survive.”

      Please wait…

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      I hope that Biden wins, the GOP gets flushed and re-vamped (in a perfect world the GOP would become the libertarian party), then Biden doesn’t run for a 2nd term.

      The Dems run a moderate, the GOP runs a moderate, then we can actually vote FOR someone based on your beliefs in government, economics, society… with civil discourse and less tribalism.

      I’d love to see two parties that debate the issues and represent their constituents but when they lose they WORK with the other side to get things done instead of pointing the finger.

      That’s what I’m wishing for… maybe it is naive but we need to send this xenophobia packing.

      Then let the dust settle and come back together.

      And the only way we can ensure that Trump is gone is by making sure everyone has the opportunity to vote within a reasonable system.

      *fingers crossed* that voter turnout of a record high (all the protestors better vote).

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [quote quote=1293630]We need better voter turnout and I think it has very little to do with picking yourself up by your bootstraps.[/quote]

      I don’t think requesting a mail-in ballot or going to early vote requires much bootstrap pulling. It does require a little effort, though. Effort most people can’t be bothered with.

      [quote quote=1293630]Along with other socio-economic factors that you can’t just ignore because something is easy for you to do.[/quote]

      What socio-economic factor prevents someone from voting, be it early, by mail, or at the poll?

      [quote quote=1293630]The ease of voting is wildly inconsistent… with COVID you’d think every state would want to move to vote by mail[/quote]

      As I’ve informed you previously and in this thread again, damn near every state offers mail in voting option. I’m not sure how this continues to get lost. There aren’t any votes being suppressed.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      😁


      As I’ve informed you previously and in this thread again, damn near every state offers mail in voting option. I’m not sure how this continues to get lost. There aren’t any votes being suppressed.”

      Please wait…

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      Civic engagement—best exemplified by voting—depends upon an engaged and informed citizenry. But in America, it’s hard to be a good citizen if you’re poor, ignored, or vilified. Life is just too hard to worry about lofty issues such as public policies and partisan political intrigue. Indeed, among too many poor and minority Americans, voting and choosing elected officials just isn’t viewed as essential to their lives.

      This tends to come as something of a shock to happy, well-fed, and middle-class or affluent voters, who have a justified belief that the political process works to their benefit. Politicians covet these voters because their confidence in the process makes them more likely to support candidates and head to the polls on Election Day. But that’s just one more illustration of the wide gulf between the haves and have-nots in our society

      .

      From 2014 but still relevant

      I mean, it just takes a quick Google search.

      That’s the first result that came up under “why don’t minorities vote?”

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      Here is a better article that is more recent and better articulates that lack of minority voting with data and examples:

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/565355/

      Give it a read and let’s discuss.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      It only took a quick Google search to see the reducing polling stations was specifically addressed by the VRA . .. lol

      That why Buggsy shifted to “ you can mail it in.”

      Lmao

      Crazy town

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [quote quote=1293683]Indeed, among too many poor and minority Americans, voting and choosing elected officials just isn’t viewed as essential to their lives.[/quote]

      Precisely. It’s not just the poor either. That dumbass Kaepernick – the serious activist – couldn’t be bothered to vote.

      Still waiting for the answer to this: What socio-economic factor prevents someone from voting, be it early, by mail, or at the poll?

      Please wait…

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      Read the article I posted?

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [postquote quote=1293690]

      I’ve skimmed it. Too much bullshit about feelings to take seriously.

      Are you able to answer the question posed on your own? It was your statement. Back it up. With multiple outlets and opportunities to vote, what socioeconomic factors are preventing the 120M+ who don’t vote from voting?

      Please wait…

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      So you need me to paraphrase the article for you?

      K

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [postquote quote=1293696]

      I need you to answer a very simple and direct question backing up a statement you made. It’s pretty common phenomenon on a message board debate, and one you and I both berate onetruth about.

      Now, I’m aware why you’re running from this simple question – and I’m guessing you do too. There is no socioeconomic reason why any minority or poor person can’t vote through one of the many outlets offered. The real answer to the question is the people that don’t vote do so by choice, not because they’re being suppressed. But the real answer doesn’t allow the left to ramp up their identity politics, race baiting, and victim status.

      You and the nutbag can have the last words, as I’m done repeating the same facts.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Classic Buggsy

      Dog walks himself from “reducing polls isn’t voter spression” to “ There is no socioeconomic reason why any minority or poor person can’t vote through one of the many outlets offered.” (In other words, they can overcome the suppression)

      And in classic Trumpism fashion throws on “I am not going to keep repeating”

      Lmao. As if people can’t see the walk.

      Please wait…

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      Hard to take him seriously…

      The stats are there… just like police brutality, minorities don’t vote. The article outlined the socio economic factors but he just brushes it off as bullshit and essentially says “what else you got”.

      So I either take some time to paraphrase the article for him, or I try to appease him with OTHER socio economic ways in which minorities are supressed.

      Either way, biggs is on offense… a classic debate tactic.

      He also did another classic debate tactic – he soloed out one sentence from the quote and focused directly on that while ignoring the rest of it… because both articles exemplify that Biggs is the problem.

      White people that view the world through their lense… as if everyone is equal. That history is done and ignored. All statistics are manipulated. Blah blah blah…

      He’s just wrong. So what would you have me do, biggs? Read the article and tell me what you disagree with… don’t be lazy. It should take you 5 minutes to read.

      There are 3 examples of voter supression.

      It outlines the statistics of minorities voting vs whites.

      It outlines voter ID suppression. Being told that they lack proper ID to vote… something that more minorities struggle with than whites – mostly due to poverty and education.

      It outlines the struggle with finding polling stations. Frequently changing them to frustrate under served communities into giving up.

      Hispanics are scared to vote because they are targeted at the polls for a variety of bullshit reasons – this intimidation scares them off.

      So state laws, access issues, and penalties are ways in which voter supression targets minorities that predominantly vote Democrat.

      It also talks about how whites (shocker) don’t view voter supression and disenfranchisement as an issue (look at you biggs) while blacks and Hispanics view it as a key issue.

      It talks about history and generational mindset of voter supression (this is the socio part). Their parents didn’t vote because they are one generation away from Jim Crow laws. They were scared to vote because of racial tension… literal fear of being hurt trying to vote. This older generation still lives in the Jim Crow mindset.

      So think about the mindset as a voter that your country doesn’t care about you. That they don’t want you to vote. How can you quantify the mindset of being a slave 150 years ago. Segregation 60 years ago. MLK and Malcom X being assassinated. White supremacy finding a platform under Trump.

      Then factor in education. Factor on health, diet, access to transportation, lack of health care, lack of PTO… all the things that we take for granted being white.

      You act as if we are all born equal but we aren’t. That’s the bullshit “all lives matter” crap and your absolute bullshit that they can just “buy a stamp”.

      Now this post was pretty long so I can only assume that I’ve wasted my time. You will probably skim this, target one sentence, and try to turn the entire debate into that one specific slice when we are talking about the whole pie.

      Stats are there… minorities don’t vote…

      So read that article. Read a history book. Do your own research. Step out of your bullshit narrative.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      I mean, there’s a reason the Voting Right Act was passed in the 1960s

      Just like there’s a reason the GOP has spent years trying to load the Supreme Court AND…

      AND…

      … actually sued to invalidate the exact portion of the VRA (Section 5) that dealt with FEDERAL approval to changes like the reduction of polling stations and…

      AND…

      … predictably the number of polling stations in many southern states are reduced after the SCOTUS ruling

      No reasonable person would dispute that. Even JBear said as much in his first post. For the same reason, you get the pivot from “there is no vote suppression” to “they can overcome it.”

      Please wait…

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      The bootstrap argument.

      Which if we are using a shoe analogy, try living in their shoes for a second.

      Grandparents couldn’t vote
      Parents scared to vote
      Leaders assassinated
      Low income
      Poorly educated
      Growing up in crime
      System of voter supression
      Voter supression mindset
      Feeling under represented in government
      Not knowing how to break out of poverty
      Not knowing how to handle debt or save money
      Living paycheck to paycheck- go to the south and see the “paycheck advance” on every corner
      Trouble registering to vote
      Trouble finding a place to vote
      White supremacy gains traction
      Going from Obama to a racist

      Welp, I guess my voice doesn’t matter and this is too hard… I have enough shit to deal with so I won’t vote if it is going to be this hard.

      Socio-economic reasons

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Weird

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      It’s about voter supression.

      It’s pretty dang obvious

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Dog whistle

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Ya ain’t cheatin you ain’t tryin

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    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      I’m shocked that taking the time to paraphrase the article and elaborate on white privilege was a waste of time… shocked.

      I really thought Biggs was gonna try to converse but as it turns out, he doesn’t.

      Because he is part of the problem…

      Please wait…

    • Hockey Duckie

      Participant
      Post count: 1302

      Here’s a voter breakdown for 2016: link

      Let’s assume there’s 320 million people in America.

      In 2016, here’s the population breakdown by race:

        White: 61.27% (196.0 mil)
        Hispanic: 17.79% (56.9 mil)
        Black: 13.31% (42.5 mil)
        Asian: 5.67% (18.1 mil)
        2-races: 2.62% (8.3 mil)
        American Indian: 1.25% (4.0 mil)
        Hawaii/Pac. Islander: 0.24% (0.7 mil)

      If 100% of non-white votes vs 100% of whites vote, then it really wouldn’t matter if it’s based upon race.

      Yet for kicks and giggles…
      Pct of non-voters by race

        White: 52%
        Hispanic: 19%
        Blacks: 15%
        Other: 12%

      Huh… whites represent over half of the non-voters.

      College Grad voters

        Clinton: 43%
        Trump: 29%

      HS or less educated voters

        Clinton: 28%
        Trump: 34%

      Hmmm…

      Anyhow, independent news commentator Tim Pool received an offical mail-in ballot to his house except the person addressed to didn’t live in Tim’s house and never requested for a mail-in ballot, as Tim got in contact with that person.

      The possibility of fraud exists if everyone is given a mail-in ballot because there’s less scrutiny compared to a requested absentee ballot.

      But hey, y’all can keep lying to yourselves. It’s sad that we’re reverting to race from the 80s and 90s. Oh well. Voting in a black President doesn’t even count in your minds unless you’re stating that white people voted in a black President? But you can’t have that either b/c it would ruin your whole premise. Oh well.

      Please wait…

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      The statistics are alarming and obvious.

      Minorities don’t vote (compared to white people)

      If it isn’t voter supression
      If it isn’t white privilege (as outlined above)
      Then what is it?

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [postquote quote=1294135]

      It’s inaccurate and wrong. It’s been 40 years since there has been a disparity of over 10% of the respective populations voting, with two of the last three elections having a higher percentage of the black population having voted than the white population. Younger blacks have been outvoting younger whites for awhile now. Socioeconomic reasons and all…

      I’m sure you’ll acquiesce after seeing the numbers you clearly had no idea existed. People make choices, you make excuses.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Uh…..

      Good grief

      This is mind-boggling

      “Voting in a black President doesn’t even count in your minds unless you’re stating that white people voted in a black President? But you can’t have that either b/c it would ruin your whole premise. Oh well. ”

      earlier in the post, the poster referred to reverting to race in the 80s and 90s???

      This too:

      “two of the last three elections having a higher percentage of the black population having voted than the white population”

      smh

      Please wait…

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      You ignored all my points and cherry picked a stat.

      Fucking classic.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      [postquote quote=1294175]

      well, and the cherry of all cherry picking:

      ““two of the last three elections having a higher percentage of the black population having voted than the white population””

      2016
      2012
      2008

      with another poster saying “Voting in a black President doesn’t even count in your minds unless you’re stating that white people voted in a black President?”

      LMAO

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [postquote quote=1294175]

      All of your points are horseshit. That’s exactly the point, Mr. Mayor. The percentage of the population that votes is a very relevant stat to this debate that blows your victimhood and excuse-making nonsense out of the water. Naturally it’s a “cherry-picked” stat that you will ignore, precisely because it blows your victimhood and excuse-making nonsense out of the water, choosing to wallow in your ignorance instead of letting new information change your perspective.

      “Minorities don’t vote (compared to white people)” – Census data proves not only is this not true, but blacks have been voting more than whites recently. Must be all of those Socioeconomic reasons…

      Needless to say, I’m not surprised at this response. I can lead a dumbass horse to water, but I can’t make that stupid mf’er drink. Also why it’s always a fruitless endeavor to have any type of debate with you and your bff. Those census numbers aren’t my opinion or your opinion, they are factual evidence that is extremely relevant to the discussion. Verifiable and undeniable facts that are labeled as “cherry-picked” because they don’t line up with the brainwashing you’ve been given. Highly predictable.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Buggsy – “Those census numbers aren’t my opinion or your opinion, they are factual evidence that is extremely relevant to the discussion. Verifiable and undeniable facts that are labeled as “cherry-picked” because they don’t line up with the brainwashing you’ve been given. Highly predictable**

      Or you said black people vote more than white 2 out of 3 years . . . . 2 out of 3 . . because 2 of those years are HISTORIC because it was the first black President?

      I mean, its not a conspiracy against you. You chose the stats and the arguments. You didn’t even address the rebuttal, so is that because you didn’t consider the Obama impact? Because you don’t want to concede that now?

      In other words, why the angry response? Why not just say “even if you take out the Obama impact — which I acknowledge is in there — the gap isn’t that big?

      (***as an aside, the census chart says right on the chart that its not Factual” its an estimate because its from surveys. Not saying I disagree with the results, just saying there is a difference. And they are “relevant to the discussion” but only insofar as acknowledging that there is a ahistorical reason for the very high black turnout (%) in the TWO of the three years))

      BUT why the angry response, why not just respond, which I think is part of Schiano’s point in another thread . . just discuss

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      This:

      “The percentage of the population that votes is a very relevant stat to this debate that blows your victimhood and excuse-making nonsense out of the water. Naturally it’s a “cherry-picked” stat that you will ignore, precisely because it blows your victimhood and excuse-making nonsense out of the water, choosing to wallow in your ignorance instead of letting new information change your perspective.”

      I . . . don’t. . . err . .

      “Closing a polling location isn’t suppressing votes, you race-baiting POS.”

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [quote quote=1294184]Or you said black people vote more than white 2 out of 3 years . . . . 2 out of 3 . . because 2 of those years are HISTORIC because it was the first black President?[/quote]

      Did those Socioeconomic reasons your buddy has been trumpeting magically disappear in 2008 & 2012? No? Well, I’ll be damned. So a higher percentage of the black population voted because they chose to? I’m shocked at this information. People (black, white, purple, yellow, red) make the effort to vote when they want to. Color me stunned.

      I’m having to make the same points to you dipshits repeatedly. As I’ve told you multiple times, I have zero interest in going down rabbit holes with someone I find as loathsome as yourself. Why you continue to ask is beyond me.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Buggsy,

      you always post like no one can see your prior posts. This is you in this thread

      1. Closing polling stations is NOT voter suppression

      2. Okay, it is but you can mail in your vote

      3. Okay, my people (gop/RIGHT) are trying to stop mail in voting, but THEY (minorities) ARE lazy

      And then you pull out a classic logical flaw, you make it “either/or” Here’s the quote:

      The real answer to the question is the people that don’t vote do so by choice, not because they’re being suppressed”

      the “REAL ANSWER” is actually both (people are apathetic and voting is suppressed), not either/or but you make it “either/or” presumably because to do otherwise would be to acknowledge numbers 1 to 3 above

      Schiano actually points this out in #1293731

      Schiano then suggest the turnout statistical difference

      whether that is accurate OR not, your response was to post a chart and THIS TWO-PART SENTENCE:

      “It’s been 40 years since there has been a disparity of over 10% of the respective populations voting, with two of the last three elections having a higher percentage of the black population having voted than the white population.”

      FIRST PART seems to be backed up by your chart:

      “It’s been 40 years since there has been a disparity of over 10% of the respective populations voting”

      BUT HERES THE SECOND PART:

      “with two of the last three elections having a higher percentage of the black population having voted than the white population”

      NOTE THAT YOU NEVER MENTION OBAMA

      YOU ACTUALLY REPEAT THE POINT, SO THERES NO CONFUSION ABOUT YOU LEAVING OUT OBAMA

      “but blacks have been voting more than whites recently.”

      AND THIS IS THE POINT — YOU END . . . YOU END YOUR PART IN THE DISCUSSION BY REVERSING THE FAULT:

      “People (black, white, purple, yellow, red) make the effort to vote when they want to. Color me stunned.”

      TAKEN LOGICALLY, YOUR POINT IN THIS THREAD IS AND HAS BEEN TO DENY THAT VOTER SUPPRESSION EXIST REPEATEDLY . . . IN END — when 1, 2 and 3 occurred – SAYING THE MINORIOTIES CAN OVERCOME IT WHEN THEY WANT TO (“make the effort to vote when they want to”) AND YOUR PROOF???

      HSITRORIC BLACK TURNOUT WHEN BLACK PEOPLE had THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY EVER IN their HISTORY TO VOTE FOR A BLACK PRESIDENT

      W

      T

      F

      ?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      and Buggsy I am not asking you to converse with me (lol-good grief)

      I am just asking why the angry douche routine? You would think you would drop that just based on the fact that we are all right and wrong at various times, but in this instance you keep on even with Schiano asking (in another thread) for a conversation

      Please wait…

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1293630]

      Left wingers are not authoritarian? LOL Forcing everyone to vote? But you admit you can’t really do that but not because it isnt right or anything… it’s just not practical.

      And worst of all you truly believe that if you did force every human being to vote whether in a vegitative state or drinking jello through a straw in one of Cuomo’s extermination camps, that republicans would cease to exist? I mean you are absolutely delusional. I live in a district in which a Democrat cannot win and never gets more than 20 or 30 percent of the vote. A Democrat isn’t winning here and countless other districts even if you and your minions dig up all the graves and bus in thousands of like minded helpers to drag every single poor person kicking and screaming to the polls. There will be resistance to progressive policies, 5 year plans and bullshit authoritarian dictates long after Trump is dead and buried.

      I can’t even believe the things that you believe are coming from an intelligent and honest person.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Good Libertarian, not Trumper: “Cuomo’s extermination camps” :-)

      LOL, to the point though, which was “republicans would cease to exist? I mean you are absolutely delusional. ”

      Republicans would not cease to exist but its s simple fact they would not now have a majority in the Senate *there best chance, electorally speaking)

      I think that might have been his point, without suppression and the electoral college, the GOP probably gets largely (not completely) wiped off the map in 2020. They would come back, in some form, as Dems started to got too far left.

      That’s the way it works

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Here’s an actual, lifelong Republican recently making Schiano’s point

      and crushing Buggsy’s hopes and dreams about lazy minorities :-)

      (that’s a joke, lighten up)

      Btw, the GOP Senate just removed a “foreign interference” amendment from a bill, right?

      weird . . .

      Please wait…

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1293696]

      LOL Unreal. Here is my advice.

      From a standing position take your hands a raise them as high as you can striaght up in the air. Bend your arms at the elbows and when you touch something solid that object should be the thing you should use to answer a question….. you know, unless you’re wearing a hat or forgot to take your helmet off.

      “do you want me to paraphrase the article” jesus christ fire.

      Please wait…

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1294212]

      Don’t even get me started about Cuomo but my dislike of him has nothing to do with Trump. He’s an authoritarian…. the whole thing with the nursing homes was a classic progressive “societal costs” line of baloney that you and fire always gobble up no matter how unappealing it looks.

      I don’t want to live in a world where I get locked in a death trap for the good of everyone else. But why that kind of crap doesn’t bother progressives I will never understand. I suppose it all sounds great until you’re the one locked in the death trap.

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [quote quote=1294209]I can’t even believe the things that you believe are coming from an intelligent and honest person.[/quote]

      My read on the Mayor is he actually believes these things and means well. He lacks knowledge, as do most liberals/leftists, of how the real world works. Which is why he’s said stuff in the past like illegal immigrants aren’t becoming mechanics or electricians, everybody pays into unemployment, everybody can’t vote by mail, etc.. As this thread has shown, he’s hesitant to let in new information and change an incorrect stance he’s held his entire life. I don’t believe he’s stupid, I believe he’s ignorant. Willfully ignorant, unfortunately.

      The good counselor, on the hand, is simply an enormous piece of shit. I haven’t witnessed any redeeming qualities. He’s a stereotype of every slimeball ambulance chaser that’s ever existed.

      Please wait…

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1294175]

      Isn’t that really the important stat if you’re trying to say that voters are being suppressed because of race? You guys just want to win elections. That is entirely what this is all about and has nothing as usual to do with voter suppression.

      Some people don’t care enough about voting but you don’t say that white trailer park trash is being suppressed when they don’t turn out in big enough numbers for Trump to win. If not enough black people vote for Biden for him to win then it’s because Biden didn’t inspire enough black voters to go out there and pull the danged lever…. or put the danged stamp on the envelope.

      I’m sorry that neither of you can get that through your head.

      Please wait…

    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      [postquote quote=1294179]

      LOL! Nothing to do with Hillary Clinton I suppose!

      This is sounding like another Joe Biden “you aint black” moment. Do you even hear yourself?

      this is exactly why you can’t force people to vote….. morally not because it’s not practical. Because getting off your ass is part of the fucking deal.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      JBear, sometimes I wonder if you can read because someone posts “a car is red” and you go

      “Fuckin progressive communists think airplanes should be owned by the government and be painted green!”

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      [postquote quote=1294219]

      so you claim repeatedly to NOT be a Trump supporter, but you parrot an alt-right Trump story about all things, CV19 deaths, but say nothing about Trump’s obvious role in CV19 deaths

      Both you and Buggsy claim to be Libertarian, but you support Trump like crazy

      weird

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      “Some people don’t care enough about voting but you don’t say that white trailer park trash is being suppressed when they don’t turn out in big enough numbers for Trump to win. If not enough black people vote for Biden for him to win then it’s because Biden didn’t inspire enough black voters to go out there and pull the danged lever…. or put the danged stamp on the envelope.

      I’m sorry that neither of you can get that through your head”

      Because its too stupid to process?

      I said above that there is both apathy and suppression
      the existence of apathy is not an excuse for suppression
      a poor neighborhood is a poor neighborhood, they are black white red green . .

      So, this entire thread is two bozos so determined to ignore GOP voter suppression that you’ve gone through ever counter excuse . . .

      because youre libertarians . . .

      seems legit

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      The response from Buggsy

      “The good counselor, on the hand, is simply an enormous piece of shit. I haven’t witnessed any redeeming qualities. He’s a stereotype of every slimeball ambulance chaser that’s ever existed.”

      I guess I nailed it :-)

      [postquote quote=1294206]

      Please wait…

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      The classic response continues.

      STILL you haven’t read the article or acknowledged my points other than cherry picking ONE PART of the argument (as I predicted you would) and ran with it.

      Your statistic ignore all minorities. It only compares people that identify as 100% white or 100% black. Read your own stats.

      You do realize there are other minorities other than blacks, right?

      And the stat STILL shows that white people vote more than black people. The only two caveats happen when Obama was the nominee.

      Again back to one of my points, the MINDSET of disenfranchisement… it’s no surprise that black people voted for Obama and turned out in record numbers. Is that a shock to you? Many thought they’d never get the chance to vote for a black president.

      So again, if you would just READ THE ARTICLE or even read my paraphrasing of the article and directly address what I said then you could justify you soapbox stance on this issue.

      Until then, yes you cherry-picked. As I said you would. As of course you did. As of course you will continue to do so…

      Because you are too fucking lazy to see this issue from a difference perspective.

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [quote quote=1294238] Your statistic ignore all minorities.

      You do realize there are other minorities other than blacks, right?

      Again back to one of my points, the MINDSET of disenfranchisement[/quote]

      lolz, you soy boys crack me up. Facts and logic mean nothing, while feelings reign supreme.

      Please wait…

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      Oh wow you cherry picked again… this is truly shocking.

      It’s almost as if it is your only play?

      🤔

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      [quote quote=1294238]it’s no surprise that black people voted for Obama and turned out in record numbers. Is that a shock to you?[/quote]

      Not a shock to me at all, as it reinforces what I’ve been telling you for half of this thread. How does this continue to not hit home for you, Mr. Mayor? Despite your socioeconomic bullshit, people will make the effort to vote when they want to. When they don’t want to vote, they won’t make the effort. Their votes aren’t being suppressed.

      I’m aware your ego won’t allow you to acquiesce this very simple point, as well as acknowledge you were wrong about minorities not voting compared to white people. Keep up the soy boy virtue signaling.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      This . . . wow

      ” people will make the effort to vote when they want to. When they don’t want to vote, they won’t make the effort. Their votes aren’t being suppressed.”

      Proof – Obama votes in 2008

      But NOT proof — GA primary, HY primary, lawsuits in almost every state trying to stop mail-in voting, bury the non-discovery of fraud by Trumps’ guy, requiring a physical address for Indians on reservation . . .

      “We (white GOP) are trying to suppress votes, but its not working real well in 2008 and 2012 (with black people), so . . . no biggy”

      LMAO

      De-Nial is a river in the deep south

      Please wait…

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 5200

      Biggs, do you know how statistics work?

      I’m sure you’ve heard this analogy before but…

      Statistics are like bikinis…

      I’ll let you finish it

      In the end, you think blacks are choosing to not vote. You are ignoring so much fucking content but I don’t really care to convince you anymore.

      You STILL haven’t address the article or the points. It’s still one cherry-picked stat. That for some reason being within 10% of voting turnout means voter supression doesn’t exist.

      Its snowing in the north poll, so I guess we won’t have a summer.

      But there is snow…

      But here is all the reasons wh…

      But there is snow. In the north poll. Are you trying to say that snow doesn’t exist? That winter doesn’t exist?

      No… I’m explaining how the earth’s rota…

      But it’s snowing in the north poll..you are mind fugged! Nobody is going to convince me that isn’t summer when it is snowing in the north poll.

      Snow.
      Poll.

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      Blissfully Ignorant

      In the face of facts, data, and reality, Mr. Mayor enjoys the warmth of the sand on that face.

      Please wait…

    • tampaspicer

      Participant
      Post count: 3477

      You two have been entertaining. LOL

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      [quote quote=1294394]In the face of facts, data, and reality[/quote]

      Team Trump
      Trump has historic turnout in primaries
      Reduced polling locations is not suppression
      Heller was a win for guns
      The use of quotations (lol)
      Etc.

      Buggsy, in this actual thread you got so much basic stuff wrong that you had to change course and yet you posted that comment above?

      😁😁

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 21938

      Maybe it’s a Trumpette thing?

      [postquote quote=1292976]

      Please wait…

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