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    • Anonymous

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      His son was killed in a mass shooting … in 2014

      A few days ago, a lunatic instant purchased a gin in Georgia and used it to kill 8

      You cannot even vote same day in GA

    • Anonymous

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      Sandy Hook was almost a decade ago and still a guy walked into a gun store and right out to kill 8 people.

    • Donkey_Hunter

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      Post count: 1808

      What new gun law would’ve stopped this?

    • Anonymous

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      Maybe a waiting period and maybe a TRO/red flag. His family if’s him right away so it’s seems they knew he was a problem.

      What’s wrong with a waiting period?

      Red flag?

    • Donkey_Hunter

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      Forgot this was a purchase in GA, hence there being no waiting period.

    • Anonymous

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      Rarely does a day pass

      There have been 3 or 4 high profile mass shootings in CO

    • Anonymous

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      “ “It seemed like all of us had imagined we’d be in situation like this at some point in our lives.”

      Merica

    • Anonymous

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    • Anonymous

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      If you dont know, Boulder had an AR ban until last week.

      Boulder passed the ban in 2018 AFTER watching the horrific Parkland shooting. The NRA sued. A COJudge struck down the ban last week

      The issue was “preemption” . . a legal issue also pushed by the NRA that says a city (Boulder) cannot pass a ban, only the state can do that.

    • DCGoth

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      Post count: 1473

      If you dont know, Boulder had an AR ban until last week.

      Boulder passed the ban in 2018 AFTER watching the horrific Parkland shooting. The NRA sued. A COJudge struck down the ban last week

      The issue was “preemption” . . a legal issue also pushed by the NRA that says a city (Boulder) cannot pass a ban, only the state can do that.

      AR’s may be the weapon of choice; however, it seems like whack jobs intent on shooting up a location will succeed, regardless of the firearm used.

      Yeah, states, even Florida, has some laws on the books. (Three day wait, unless you have a CCP), but it’s just too simple to acquire any form of firearms in the US, and any attempt to legislate incurs the wrath of idiots bitching about their incorrect interpretation of the Second Amendment.

      The sad thing is, now, is to a point where I am completely apathetic to mass shootings. I honestly no longer give a fuck. Idiots want guns, then idiots have to live with the potential danger associated with all of those guns.

      The laws will never change, so it’s not even worth trying anymore. Also, places like Florida’s really have some fucked up laws in the books. Example: I have a CCP. (The most fucked up part of that is that I can but as many firearms as I want in the same visit to one store and walk out with them that minute.) There are many more fucked up laws that, to me make no sense. With my CCP, if I’m armed and enter a bar, I’m not legally permitted to sit at the bar. I have to sit at a table. What the fuck does that accomplish? I’m still in a bar with a .45 in my pocket. Also, since it’s concealed, it’s solely up to the person carrying to sit at a table. I know a number of people that still sit, armed, at the bar. Personally, If I’m drinking at a place where I feel I need to be armed, I should probably pick another place to drink.

      That said, until people collectively choose to stop blocking legislation for firearm safety, the shooting will continue. Which is a large part of why I really no longer give a fuck about these incidents. All it does it cause me to turn the channel to HBO, or read a book. I no longer follow any news about AC hit shootings. I had free no clue what happened in Atlanta, other than the dude wanted to kill Asians, and I know less about the one today. I will continue to know very little about this, as any mention that I run across on any form of media, I’m just going to tune out. I really don’t give a fuck anymore. Let everyone blast the shit out of each other, for all I care. Just hand out free ammo so they can get it over with fast.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • Donkey_Hunter

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      Post count: 1808

      AR’s may be the weapon of choice; however, it seems like whack jobs intent on shooting up a location will succeed, regardless of the firearm used.

      Exactly

    • Anonymous

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      AR’s may be the weapon of choice; however, it seems like whack jobs intent on shooting up a location will succeed, regardless of the firearm used.

      True but the weapon matters, obviously. The AR weapons and large mags are a deadly combo for even a relatively unskilled shooter. On the other end of the scale, what does the average American need one for that justifies these kinds of shootings for years?

      Name another country that has millions in their population?

      The NRA itself understands the problem because they made a conscious effort to eradicate all military connected marketing a number of years back

    • Anonymous

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      One of the safest countries in the world and we have some people conditioned to excuse these avoidable events

      The satirical paper The Onion has for years been mocking this mindset by posting a headline after every event there reads “we cannot do anything about it,” says ONLY COUNTRY WITH THE PROBLEM.

      ARs exist in our communities FOR THE PROFITS of an single industry

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      Ha

      well, I was close on the quote . . sort of. Here’s the actual Onion headline

      “‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens”

    • DCGoth

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      Post count: 1473

      he AR weapons and large mags are a deadly combo for even a relatively unskilled shooter. On the other end of the scale, what does the average American need one for that justifies these kinds of shootings for years?

      True; however, like my AR15, I have thirty round mags. I have a Springfield Arms Sub-Compact, with a 2 ½ inch barrel. It holds 17+1 9mm rounds. Someone fee could do just as much damage with that, should they be so inclined.

      The little bit of info I heard before changing the channel, this latest dude killed ten people. The guy at the massage parlours took out eight, but in three locations. Any firearm could do that. You can fire off sixty quick rounds with an AR, using a bump stock; however, if you’re just cutting blindly, you’re not gonna hit sixty targets.

      The problem isn’t the rifle. The problem is it’s too easy in this country to just go off the deep-end and make the news. A million years ago, the guy in the Texas Tower held people off for a very long time, and that wasn’t using an AR15. Also, some states permit you to own full-auto M16s. I knew a guy who owned about ten of them.

      So, as mentioned, the problem isn’t the firearm. The problem is the whack job holding the firearm. Until this country actually does something, it’s gonna be the same thing over and over. Mass Shooting; Hand Wringing; Send Prayers; Call Attention to the Problem; Suggest Legislation that Stalls and Goes Nowhere; Await the Next Shooting after nothing is done.

      This is the source of my apathy. No one is ever going to allow legislation that is strong enough to curtail the shootings. As a result, we’re going to encounter all that many more assholes all waiting for their turn at commanding the news cycle. I don’t see this problem ever going away, not in this country.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • DCGoth

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      Post count: 1473

      The NRA itself understands the problem because they made a conscious effort to eradicate all military connected marketing a number of years back

      The NRA doesn’t give a shit. They’re in it for the money. That’ll never change. Those people are even more fucking nuts than the shooters.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      Ha

      well, I was close on the quote . . sort of. Here’s the actual Onion headline

      “‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens”

      My favourite news source. 😎

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      here is the flaw (in bold)

      “this latest dude killed ten people. The guy at the massage parlours took out eight, but in three locations

      with AR and a large mag . . the Boulder shooter killed 10 IN A FRACTION ON THE TIME . . in a much BIGGER location

      the guy at the massage parlors might have bene stopped in any of those pauses to travel, just like people are often stopped because THEY HAVE TO RELOAD. THERE WAS NO SUCH CHANCE IN BOULDER. the guy quickly killed 9 and apparently killed the first officer responding .. and officer called specifically because he has a “patrol rifle.”

      the nature of the weapon matters, especially when you ask what purpose they serve. A handgun is at least a personal protection device and a 9mm is not going to shoot rounds through walls or that kill with almost any strike because of the velocity . . if that was the case . . our soldiers wouldve have been armed with 9mmm for years, not M16s etc.

      Sadly, for many people . . the vast majority of the purchasers . . an AR is, essentially, a toy. a very deadly toy. People living in suburban gated comminutes dont need and AR15 to protect them or their property. I had a family member who was once captain and then coach of the Marine pistol team. he traveled cross country regularly, sleeping in the back of his truck. His weapon — a REVOLVER. Because it wouldn’t jam AND HE KNEW HES GET SHOTS ON MASS. The AR lets any schlub be a mass murdered because of the fire rate and velocity and capacity (OBVIOUSLLY . . there’s simply no denying that).

      The average AR mass murders is NOT SOME SKILLED MARKSMAN . . its often some fat white dude, wanna be soldier . . with a TINY PRICK. The AR allows that person to be very effective IN MANY SCENARIOS .. because its VERY DEADLY

    • Anonymous

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      it should be an obvious logical disconnect that many many HANGUN OWNERS purchased ARs and now those same AR owners suggest that the gun does not matter (when there is a mass killing with an AR). “People can get killed with handguns, ” they say . . after they just bought an AR . . WHILE ALREADY HAVING A HANDGUN.

      you can die in a school bus or a Lamborghini . . that does NOT make them the same

      a mass murderer chooses an AR (and often times body armor etc) for the same reason they are sold. In fact, the prior mass murders are the advertising.

      No mass murder says “I want to get noticed , so I am going to go shoot as single person with my 9mm .. they say “I am going to saw people in half by finding a crowded soft target.”

      Can it happen with a 9mm, sure . .

    • FireLicht2020

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      Post count: 6640

      Start with the no brainer, universal background check and longer waiting period.

      See what type of effect that has…

      Then make a decision on the type of guns we should ban.

      Seems super simple to me

    • Anonymous

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      Start with the no brainer, universal background check and longer waiting period.

      See what type of effect that has…

      Then make a decision on the type of guns we should ban.

      Seems super simple to me

      universal back ground check bill sat for 400 days (or something like that) because of the GOP even though — obviously – a gun is no less dangerous is bought in a store or a parking lot

      Gun law in the US is filled with absurd inconsistencies because its driven by AN INDUSTRY

      In this country, people routinely die for profits because the government represents the industry over the single voter.

      This issue of an AR ban — originally one of Biden’s issues — is another issue that could bring down the filibuster

    • Anonymous

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      So, as mentioned, the problem isn’t the firearm.

      tell that to the crowd in Las Vegas

      “In the 10 minutes before the gunman shoots himself, he kills 58 people and wounds 489 on the grounds below.”

      he had MULTIPLE ARs, not handguns

      Again, why haven’t US soldiers been armed with 9mms if FIREPOWER DOESNT MATTER? why the military use automatic fire, if fire rate and volume dint matter? Why even have a “saw” (light machine gun)?

      of course the weapon matters

    • Anonymous

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      Shooter is a Trump hating Muslim according to UK paper

      Just as background though not the motive yet

    • Anonymous

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      Syrian dissent US citizens with mental illness, according to family not necessarily diagnosed

    • Donkey_Hunter

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      @karmapolice wrote:

      the nature of the weapon matters, especially when you ask what purpose they serve. A handgun is at least a personal protection device and a 9mm is not going to shoot rounds through walls or that kill with almost any strike because of the velocity . . if that was the case . . our soldiers wouldve have been armed with 9mmm for years, not M16s etc.

      I’m sorry, but this is complete and total bullshit.

      10-15 years ago, most SWAT units had loadouts that included some variant of an HK MP-5 or other similar SMG that were chambered in 9mm.

      They’ve since primarily gone to M4 variants chambered in .556 (or .223) due to its tendency to tumble and drop at the first point of penetration. Whereas 9mm rounds are proven to continue flying through MULTIPLE layers of drywall or similar material.

      For years, I had a canned Sig MPX chambered in 9mm as my go-to home defense rifle. Even subsonic cartridges had tendencies of over penetration.

      That’s why I switched back to a SBR chambered in .556, as it drastically reduced that effect.

      As I’ve said many times before, and most importantly, WITH FACTS to back my opinion; AR-based rifles are not only ideal guns for home defense, they’re superior to any other option.

      • spartan

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        Post count: 1194

        Add on to the fact that many militaries have gone to the bullpup design and ask yourself why? “Regular” rifles have longer barrels which get in the way when you are in an urban setting. A rifle gives you range and accuracy, which is why it is used by the Military, hunters etc.

        So, if I was going to go into a store and shoot it up I would take a semi-automatic handgun and lots of magazines.

        Also, the reports is he used an AR-pistol. This is an ar-15 style weapon with no stock and a much shorter barrel. This would not have been included in any previous, or currently proposed “assault weapon” ban because it is desginated a pistol. Just an example about how folks will work around these things, and, those who scream from the highest mountain tend to not really know what they are talking about and get it wrong.

        I have maintained the only way you will be able to resolve this issue is to ban all firearms in the USA. Good luck with that one for obvious reasons, and due to the number of firearms currently active in the US, be prepared to count a hell of a lot more innocent bodies before they all taken off the street.

    • Donkey_Hunter

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      @firelicht2020 wrote:

      Then make a decision on the type of guns we should ban.

      Seems super simple to me

      Super simple, eh?

      Considering that there are most likely 10-13 million AR’s in possession in the US, how would you propose we enforce a ban?

    • Anonymous

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      @karmapolice wrote:

      the nature of the weapon matters, especially when you ask what purpose they serve. A handgun is at least a personal protection device and a 9mm is not going to shoot rounds through walls or that kill with almost any strike because of the velocity . . if that was the case . . our soldiers wouldve have been armed with 9mmm for years, not M16s etc.

      I’m sorry, but this is complete and total bullshit.

      10-15 years ago, most SWAT units had loadouts that included some variant of an HK MP-5 or other similar SMG that were chambered in 9mm.

      They’ve since primarily gone to M4 variants chambered in .556 (or .223) due to its tendency to tumble and drop at the first point of penetration. Whereas 9mm rounds are proven to continue flying through MULTIPLE layers of drywall or similar material.

      For years, I had a canned Sig MPX chambered in 9mm as my go-to home defense rifle. Even subsonic cartridges had tendencies of over penetration.

      That’s why I switched back to a SBR chambered in .556, as it drastically reduced that effect.

      As I’ve said many times before, and most importantly, WITH FACTS to back my opinion; AR-based rifles are not only ideal guns for home defense, they’re superior to any other option.

      What is velocity of a hand gun round compare to AR round?

      With an AR you could shoot a home intruder (in the 1% scenario) in your living room snd kill your child in her bedroom.

      Then have a bad day and go easily kill ten on your grocery store

      You could provide the save home defense (for that 1% scenario) with a handgun.

      The point isn’t that one could not use an AR for home defense it’s that the risk outweighs the need and benefit.

      You can legally buy a firecracker. You can also buy it’s much stronger cousin, dynamite … but

    • Anonymous

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    • Anonymous

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      Basic logic causes most gun arguments to completely disintegrate.

      Here’s another one.

      Even if you buy the self-defense myth, anyone carrying a handgun in the Boulder grocery store would be at an immediate disadvantage. Even a police officer called because he possessed an equal firearm was at a disadvantage and he was killed (supposedly based on reporting).

      I understand that some of that is tactical, but it’s also just the flat out difference in fire power so for the bogus self-defense myth to be true in a country loaded with assault rifles everyone would have to be carrying a salt rifles instead of handguns

      That’s even more dumb because the hypothetical “good guy with a gun” is not wearing a uniform. So any police officer entering the grocery store especially after one of their own was down and reports of an assault rifle, with obviously think to shoot any civilian holding an assault rifle. What’s next?

    • Anonymous

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      Every product in society has a basic utility argument: is the risk worth the benefit.

      Like it or not the primary benefit of an AR to most (not all) users is ENTERTAINMENT. thousands of ARs fired at ranges and the like every weekend, almost none of those same weekend having an AR fired for personal self defense

      Entertainment is the LOWEST utility. It would be entertaining as hell to drive a tank down my street but ….

    • Anonymous

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      Think about this

      Today during the press conference one of the LEO‘s talked about his experience with the Aurora shooting. A single law enforcement officer dealing with two mass shootings in his career, probably more

      On top of that the Boulder ordinance that was struck down was proposed and passed as a response to the shooting in Parkland Florida

      These terrible events have become such a part of our culture that they’re all now collapsing in on each other and the overwhelming majority of Americans have been for Taking reasonable steps to control this for decades.

      Columbine

      Sandy Hook

      Etc

      Etc

      Etc

      This is why I say that unfortunately the nuclear option is likely to come out in Congress. Congress when it comes to gun laws is not representative of the population, it’s representative of a gun lobby

    • Donkey_Hunter

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      Post count: 1808

      @karmapolice wrote:

      Even if you buy the self-defense myth,

      so for the bogus self-defense myth

      What myth?

      Like it or not the primary benefit of an AR to most (not all) users is ENTERTAINMENT. thousands of ARs fired at ranges and the like every weekend, almost none of those same weekend having an AR fired for personal self defense

      Cool. I can make the same exact statement for pistols, revolvers, shotguns, etc.

    • Anonymous

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      the end of the filibuster is nigh?

      Biden calls for an immediate ban of ARs

      Obama even beat him to it NOTING specifically that Congress is out of step with Americans

      GOP policies will be the reason for the filibuster to go down

      the slow burn civil war burns on

    • Anonymous

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      I can make the same exact statement for pistols, revolvers, shotguns, etc.

      and yet the Vegas guy chose ARs

      Ahmed chose an AR

      In other words, an AR is not just a “pistol, revolver or shotgun” even if someone like you could use them all to the same ends because . . Ahmed is not you, he’s a fat schlub 21 year old. James Holmes wasn’t you. Thankfully he couldn’t clear his jam. Omar Mateen had handguns . . still bought a Sig (I think)

      zero disrespect. I think that isunderstood. you make fair points and I certainly have not cornered the market on gun knowledge (far, far from that) . . but the topic is as much humans as it is guns. untrained humans can easily do more damage with an AR and a big mag then a revolver . . or at least they all seem to believe they can.

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      this shines a light on the real problem, perfectly

    • Donkey_Hunter

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      Post count: 1808

      and yet the Vegas guy chose ARs

      Ahmed chose an AR

      And, yet, pistols are more commonly used in mass shootings and cause more deaths in mass shootings.

      Again, this is a fact. Not an opinion.

      And, throughout all these discussions we’ve had over the course of the last several years…I can’t recall a solution ever being given.

      If I recall correctly, maybe you or someone else mentioned an all out ban on semi-automatic rifles.

      But, I never recall getting an answer on how that would realistically be enforced.

    • Anonymous

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      And, yet, pistols are more commonly used in mass shootings and cause more deaths in mass shootings.

      Again, this is a fact. Not an opinion.

      if you define mass shootings a 4 or more (the current FBI standard, I think) then yes but as I said there is an argument that a pistol LEGITIMATELY serves a purpose that MITIGATES somewhat against the risk. ARs don’t have that same outcome in the analysis.

      You’re also just thinking of it in the clinical sense when all gun violence has repercussions beynd the actual loss. the handgun might survive that, but the AR is less likley to do so for the reasosn described

      Lastly, on the “enforcement” I can only say unevenly and unfairly, at least in the eyes of people who share your views.

      I say that because of the technical issues, but mostly because your side of the equation mostly has a “take my ball and go home” approach, simultaneously professing expertise while refusing to apply it. If you were to go twitter tight now you’d see gun people tweet things like “AR in AR-15 means armalite, not assault rifle.” Funny, but that “your too dumb” ([sic] intended) approach means that your side INTENTIONALLY leaves their fate in the hands of “dummies” which begs the question as to who is really the “dummy,’ figuratively speaking?

      change is inevitable and as with everything in politics the “my way or the highway” approach leads to overreactions, bad laws etc. But . . . “slippery slope” and “2A!”. . . so

    • Donkey_Hunter

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      if you define mass shootings a 4 or more (the current FBI standard, I think) then yes but as I said there is an argument that a pistol LEGITIMATELY serves a purpose that MITIGATES somewhat against the risk. ARs don’t have that same outcome in the analysis.

      Yes, they do. I have given multiple examples of this over the years. Hell, I’ve given a few in this thread alone.

      Regarding the rest, I’ve still yet to see how you can realistically enforce a semi-automatic rifle ban.

      What would it entail? How would it be carried out? How would it be enforced?

      Not a single person the “ban AR” camp has been able to give realistic answers to these questions.

      And, we all know why. They don’t have any.

    • Anonymous

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      Not a single person the “ban AR” camp has been able to give realistic answers to these questions.

      And, we all know why. They don’t have any.

      I dont think that is accurate. In fact, for several years there has been a federal AR ban bill modeled after several state bills and building off the problems with the 94 law.

      https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?id=0763FFE7-8E3F-4F57-B1C7-E09E161C83D7

      I am sure it will work imperfectly, but all laws do

    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 3277

      Just for your information:

      next you’ll say Santa is for snow . . or he was in 2013

      In other words, an opinion piece by a gun guy?

      Look, the whole discussion is borderline disingenuous because ARS were sold as weekend warrior military-style weapons. as they have come under fire (no pun intended) there has been this big push to claim they are home defense weapons WHEN NO ONE CLAIMED THAT BEFORE . . JUST LIKE THE RE-BRANING TO “MODERN SPORING RIFLE”

      not worth re-circling that ground but here is the easy counter:

      “According to radiologist Heather Sher in a piece for The Atlantic, who treated several students injured in the recent shooting at a South Florida high school, a regular handgun leaves linear tracks through the victim’s body that are roughly the size of a bullet. The weapons are low velocity and often leave non-fatal wounds.

      On the other hand, bullets from an AR-15 and weapons similar to it travel almost three times faster than those of a routine handgun. The shooter can cause more damage while being less accurate, and the wounds are often far more lethal.”

      etc etc etc

    • spartan

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      Reading on a number of sites, CNN included that the weapon used is legally classified as a pistol.

    • Anonymous

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      I would think this is undisputed, but let me know if not

      “The killing potential of a gun is primarily based on the amount of energy imparted by the bullet when it strikes the body. The bullet’s kinetic energy is equal to half of the bullet weight multiplied by the speed of the bullet when fired, squared — in other words, the velocity that a gun can impart on a bullet is the dominant factor in determining its killing potential.

      The 9mm handgun is generally regarded as an effective weapon; its bullet travels at 1,200 feet per second and delivers a kinetic energy of 400 foot pounds. By comparison, the standard AR-15 bullet travels at 3,251 feet per second and delivers 1300 foot pounds.

      Tissue destruction of the AR-15 is further enhanced by cavitation, which is the destruction of tissue beyond the direct pathway of the bullet; this occurs with high velocity bullets because their kinetic energies are over 2,500 foot pounds.”

      So the AR shooter can usually get off more rounds without reloading AND those rounds are very deadly, particular as compared to the handguns for the reasons mentioned above

      this is ONE reason (not the only reason) why the Boulder shooter killed 10 in minutes. In fact, I think the only person HIT BY A BULLET who walked out of the store was the killer? Everyone else died? Maybe the killer was struck by a police handgun? who knows?

    • Anonymous

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      Reading on a number of sites, CNN included that the weapon used is legally classified as a pistol.

      does that mean its a SIG or something like that?

    • Anonymous

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      here:

      “A search of Boulder shooting suspect Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa’s home turned up other weapons, a senior law enforcement source tells CNN.

      The official also updated the description previously given of the weapon used in the killings. The source describes the weapon as an AR-15-style pistol that had been modified with an arm brace”

    • Anonymous

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      the Dayton killer used a similar weapon, similar in description

      “The gunman in Dayton, Ohio, killed nine people and injured 27 using a .223 caliber AR-15-style pistol he had “modified, in essence, to function like a rifle.”

      Dayton Police Chief Richard Biehl told reporters that the gunman had outfitted his legally purchased pistol with a drum magazine that could hold 100 rounds, and with a “pistol brace” to improve stability.

      In total, he fired at least 41 shots in roughly 30 seconds using his weapon.”

    • Donkey_Hunter

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      I dont think that is accurate. In fact, for several years there has been a federal AR ban bill modeled after several state bills and building off the problems with the 94 law.

      https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?id=0763FFE7-8E3F-4F57-B1C7-E09E161C83D7

      I am sure it will work imperfectly, but all laws do

      So, all current owners of AR’s get to keep EVERYTHING.

      And, there’s literally 2,200 variant by name exemptions.

      In other words, this bill wouldn’t do shit.

    • Anonymous

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      I dont think that is accurate. In fact, for several years there has been a federal AR ban bill modeled after several state bills and building off the problems with the 94 law.

      https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?id=0763FFE7-8E3F-4F57-B1C7-E09E161C83D7

      I am sure it will work imperfectly, but all laws do

      So, all current owners of AR’s get to keep EVERYTHING.

      And, there’s literally 2,200 variant by name exemptions.

      In other words, this bill wouldn’t do shit.

      You’re saying you want confiscation? Interesting

      Oh wait, you’re admitting some legally purchased ARs are not in the hands of mythical “good guys with guns”

      :-)

    • Donkey_Hunter

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      Post count: 1808

      You’re saying you want confiscation? Interesting

      You’re saying you agree with me that Feinstein’s proposal won’t do squat?

      Interesting.

      Oh wait, you’re admitting some legally purchased ARs are not in the hands of mythical “good guys with guns”

      Same can be said with every firearm known to man.

    • Donkey_Hunter

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      Post count: 1808

      The official also updated the description previously given of the weapon used in the killings. The source describes the weapon as an AR-15-style pistol that had been modified with an arm brace”

      For fuck’s sake…that’s literally how they’re sold from the manufacturer, gun stores, etc.

      There is no “modification”

      The gunman in Dayton, Ohio, killed nine people and injured 27 using a .223 caliber AR-15-style pistol he had “modified, in essence, to function like a rifle.”

      Lol. Again, nothing was “modified”.

      I mean, how much money do these media outlets pay their writers?

    • Donkey_Hunter

      Participant
      Post count: 1808

      Reading on a number of sites, CNN included that the weapon used is legally classified as a pistol.

      Yep.

      It was a pistol. Not a semi-automatic rifle.

      So, as I mentioned earlier, pistols continue to be the choice weapon of mass shooters.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      What makes it legally a pistol? In other words what is the purpose on classifying it that way? To avoid some state ban?

      Or is it less expensive?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      This I guess

      “ Under U.S. law, the only part of a gun that’s technically considered a firearm — and must be shipped to a licensed firearms dealer — is the lower receiver. That’s the shell-like piece that houses the trigger and bears the maker’s serial number. Everything else, from the barrel to the firing mechanism, can be easily bought directly — online or in a store.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      the Boulder shooter had an Ar-556

      so its called a “pistol” but still fires a high velocity round .223 round, right?

      so why isnt the easy line in the law the muzzle velocity, if that is what kills?

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      Sandy Hook was almost a decade ago and still a guy walked into a gun store and right out to kill 8 people.

      Oh, one other thing to consider. Granted, supposedly the latest guy had an AR15-style pistol, I forgot one thing earlier.

      I can’t quite for all states; however, in a good number of states, even Maryland, where buying an ounce of primo baby blood is easier to score than a pistol, you only have to be eighteen to buy a rifle, and rifles have no waiting period.

      Also, there’s one other thing to consider when looking at AR15s. Some, the less expensive ones only fire .223 rounds; however, like mine, there are more powerful versions, which also are designed to fire 5.56 NATO Rounds. (5.56 is the Caliber that is a military round and fired by M16s. While both can do damage, a 5.56 round is nastier than a .233.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      @KarmaPolice

      This is one of my favourite, old school Onion parodies.

      Btw, this video is nsfw & nsfOT. 😎

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Sandy Hook was almost a decade ago and still a guy walked into a gun store and right out to kill 8 people.

      Oh, one other thing to consider. Granted, supposedly the latest guy had an AR15-style pistol, I forgot one thing earlier.

      I can’t quite for all states; however, in a good number of states, even Maryland, where buying an ounce of primo baby blood is easier to score than a pistol, you only have to be eighteen to buy a rifle, and rifles have no waiting period.

      Also, there’s one other thing to consider when looking at AR15s. Some, the less expensive ones only fire .223 rounds; however, like mine, there are more powerful versions, which also are designed to fire 5.56 NATO Rounds. (5.56 is the Caliber that is a military round and fired by M16s. While both can do damage, a 5.56 round is nastier than a .233.

      I was just reading about this

      The 5.56, it’s slightly heavier and more pressure, which I take to mean it has more force than the .223?

      Presumably that’s why it’s the military round, more stopping power?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      @KarmaPolice

      This is one of my favourite, old school Onion parodies.

      Btw, this video is nsfw & nsfOT. 😎

      Hahahaha

    • Donkey_Hunter

      Participant
      Post count: 1808

      What makes it legally a pistol?

      The barrel (and overall) length, plus it doesn’t have a stock.

      If it has a stock, it would be considered a Class 3 weapon. A short-barreled rifle, or SBR.

      Or is it less expensive?

      Depends. From what I’ve seen, you can get semi-automatic rifles far less expensive.

      In other words what is the purpose on classifying it that way?

      Already gave you the answer. That’s the government classification.

      However, I do remember a thread (from years ago) where I told you this shit would happen.

      I predicted it.

      That AR-pistols would be the new norm due to “gun grabbers” such as yourself, having ZERO knowledge on firearms grasping at straws.

      As a front, you and your ilk paraded out a bunch of uneducated theories about the capabilities, functionalities, “self defense myth”, etc. of certain firearms (which I easily debunked in this thread)…

      …when in reality, you always wanted to ban them based on appearance (not facts)…not actually knowing what said appearances actual applications are.

      Gun manufacturers…again as I predicted…read you and your ilk easier than an article in Playboy, and maneuvered years in advance.

      And, guess, what…

      …they’re still doing it.

      Are they now going to try and ban “AR-pistols”?

      That means they’ll have to ban nearly every commonly owned pistol in the country.

      So, I’ll ask you this…since you never really answered the original question.

      How would you propose they enforce something of that level?

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      A handgun is at least a personal protection device and a 9mm is not going to shoot rounds through walls or that kill with almost any strike because of the velocity .

      Actually, a .357 Sig round fired out of a P226, when first being field tested using FBI methods of four layers of denim in front of a very long block of gelatine, had to be modified, as the rounds were exiting the back of the gelatine. What they did instead was to place a piece of wood behind the original setup, and placed another block of gelatine behind the wood.

      I couldn’t find tat ballistic test, but here is one that just shows what the round can do. (In another video, the .357 Sig FMJ goes through more plates of metal than any other round.)

      One note, the 9mm round also has a decent ability to go through multiple objects. If you want a round that won’t go through to the neighbours house, you’ll want a 40 Cal Slow and Weakly. (S&W, actually. 😎)

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      The average AR mass murders is NOT SOME SKILLED MARKSMAN . . its often some fat white dude, wanna be soldier

      True; however, I think that defines the average “militia” type patriot nutjob that are buying out gun shops inventory now like it was toilet paper a year ago.

      These people are reactionary, and usually wrong. Gun shop owners are taking these people to the bank, all for fear that Biden will somehow overcome the whack job gun lobby.

      It is not ARs that need to be singled out. This country needs serious gun reform at the federal level. Sadly, I don’t think they can get the votes for anything significant.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      tell that to the crowd in Las Vegas

      “In the 10 minutes before the gunman shoots himself, he kills 58 people and wounds 489 on the grounds below.”

      he had MULTIPLE ARs, not handguns

      Again, why haven’t US soldiers been armed with 9mms if FIREPOWER DOESNT MATTER? why the military use automatic fire, if fire rate and volume dint matter? Why even have a “saw” (light machine gun)?

      While I definitely greatly feel there is a need for strict gun control, I just wanted to mention a couple things. This is not an excuse for why these people committed these crimes. This is just a couple observations that are not meant to be judgemental.

      On the Vegas dude, he did use multiple ARs; however, he was shooting from a hotel room, high up and at a distance. He needed a weapon that could reach his targets. I’m not aware of any pistol that would have the range he needed for whatever deer it was he was pissed about. (I don’t think that he ever left any reason for his actions. I could be wrong, though.

      On the military, the M16 came about because the military wanted an updated version of the M1. This led to the M14 and then the M16. The desire was to have a lighter rifle, capable of being easier to use in jungle warfare and less prone to failure. (Obviously, if you’ve ever been issued am M16, you’ll also laugh at the reliability part. M16s were notorious for jamming and other fun problems. In Basic, when you first get all of your M16 knowledge, there are a series of steps you go through to fix any jamming or other issues. The final step, should all else fail, is to smack it very hard against a very hard surface, like the ground. If that fails, you’re fucked. Fortunately I was never in combat, so I’m very glad that I didn’t have to apply that knowledge. 😎)

      My understanding is that the military, at some point, decided to go to burst fire over full auto. I have no idea if this is true, though, as I was in during the Carter Administration, and the closest threat we saw was the Iran Hostage Crisis. My MOS wouldn’t have placed me in combat, regardless.

      On the pistols, Military Officers were always issued pistols. I have no idea if they still do, though. I’m so out of the loop, I’m not even sure why they transitioned to an M4. I also know very little about M4s.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      Shit, double post. I’ll use this post to mention that I have some known typos in other posts. They’re way too verbose to risk losing in an edit, so I’ll mention it here. 😎

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      Also, the reports is he used an AR-pistol. This is an ar-15 style weapon with no stock and a much shorter barrel.

      Yep, there are free of these out now. While I’ve seen a shorter one, Good is the vid for the Sig Sauer 5.56, 30 round AR style pistol, with a folding “brace”.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      The point isn’t that one could not use an AR for home defense it’s that the risk outweighs the need and benefit.

      Actually, .223 and 5.56 rounds are designed to tumble, so you could hit someone in the chest and the rounds could come out their leg.

      If I fired my P226 at someone breaking through my front door, chances are very good that the rounds could pass right through them and outside behind them. Afaik, this is less like to occur if I fired my Bushmaster 5.56.

      Not that it matters much. I have no intention of shooting at anyone coming through my front door, but to some people, staring down the barrel of a gun can be a good deterrent. 😎

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      That means they’ll have to ban nearly every commonly owned pistol in the country.

      So, I’ll ask you this…since you never really answered the original question.

      How would you propose they enforce something of that level?

      This is a really weird response. You’re denigrating the people trying to limit unnecessary death (“gun grabbers”) and crediting the companies manufacturing around the legislation FOR PROFIT …EVEN WITH THE DEATH?

      Anyway, in this thread I actually asked why the standard isn’t just muzzle velocity or maybe muzzle velocity mixed with capacity

      By the way, the “afraid of how it looks” bs is just a gun seller talking point that stems from the original legislation being based on component parts (ie trying to limit the scope of the ban).

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      The passing through the walls issue comes up because the GUN SELLING INDUSTRY has repeatedly tried to reposition a MILITARY style weapon as something else to avoid calls for new ban. So, a weapon that was once sold to weekend warriors as military like gets concerned to a “modern sporting rifle” and then articles about its great use as “home defense” (because the Heller case defined the 2A right in terms of home defense)

      All of that maneuvering (the NRA tweet ankles references the “common” nature of the weapon , another Heller reference) is just a DISHONEST attempt to distract from the REALITY that the gun is more deadly than a typical handgun for the reasons disgusted here, which are often times its link to its MILITARY roots.

      These discussions are always peppered with dishonesty on both sides, in part because BILLIONS are spent by the industry on the primary currency: FEAR

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Not sure if this point is lost or just ignored by the pro gun group but do you all realize that this killer bought this gun only days before the event (and right after the judge struck the ban)

      I mention that because there’s so much effort deflecting from the deadly nature of these guns INCLUDING the attempt to denigrate your opposition by saying they are ignorant people just scared of the look … when a guy who appears to have no specific weapons training and may even be crazy actually went to a store WITH THUS MASS KILLING IN MIND … and chose … what? The “scary looking” “AR-style” gun?

      Seems his crazy act – and act performed now by MULTIPLE mass shooters – completely undercuts the attempt to suggest any gun is … just another gun. He could’ve used a bolt action rifle (more
      Muzzle velocity) he didn’t. He could’ve used a revolver (more reliable). He didn’t.

      He chose the weapon that fulfilled the fantasy. The same way it’s sold to “good guys. The weapon that was widely available and the easiest platform to drop many deadly bullets on a soft target without much skill.. again, the very point of the platform. Almost the definition of “firepower.”

      Weird, huh?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      MORE important to the point above perhaps, someone at the GUN STORE likely sold the gun to him on the basis of some of the characteristics that are now downplayed AFTER a shooting.

      Think about that. In these post mass murder discussions, the gun is just another gun… when it’s was sold to this guy and for years actually as exactly the opposite … many times to people who already owned guns ie they themselves so the difference

    • Donkey_Hunter

      Participant
      Post count: 1808

      Weird, huh?

      Despite your numerous opinions (which many have been proven to be factually incorrect time and time again); handguns are used more and are responsible for more deaths in mass shootings.

      Facts are facts.

      Weird, huh?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Weird, huh?

      Despite your numerous opinions (which many have been proven to be factually incorrect time and time again); handguns are used more and are responsible for more deaths in mass shootings.

      Facts are facts.

      Weird, huh?

      Facts can also be deflections

      Blaming a handgun is a deflection in this conversation. It’s a way of avoiding the utility argument (ie what is the UNSERVED purpose for an AR that outweighs its risk of these events) because there isn’t much of an argument.

    • Donkey_Hunter

      Participant
      Post count: 1808

      Facts can also be deflections

      Blaming a handgun is a deflection in this conversation. It’s a way of avoiding the utility argument (ie what is the UNSERVED purpose for an AR that outweighs its risk of these events) because there isn’t much of an argument.

      Whatever you say, bud.

      I’ve hardly avoided that argument.

      My engagement with you in this thread started with me debunking your lazy and non-factual claim that AR’s can shoot through more walls than a 9mm handgun.

      I’ve given PLENTY of arguments (factual) on the utility purposes of semi-automatic rifles.

      You simply don’t like the answers. Or, don’t feel they have any merit because, by your own choice, feel they serve no practical use in your life.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      These discussions are always peppered with dishonesty on both sides, in part because BILLIONS are spent by the industry on the primary currency: FEAR

      I assume most will not but it would be worth the time to read this Twitter thread by a “gun owner”. It discusses the explosive growth of ARs. His reasoning for the growth is halfway down

      Curious whether other gun owners will agree with his conclusion and if not at least with his recounting of gun history

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Facts can also be deflections

      Blaming a handgun is a deflection in this conversation. It’s a way of avoiding the utility argument (ie what is the UNSERVED purpose for an AR that outweighs its risk of these events) because there isn’t much of an argument.

      Whatever you say, bud.

      I’ve hardly avoided that argument.

      My engagement with you in this thread started with me debunking your lazy and non-factual claim that AR’s can shoot through more walls than a 9mm handgun.

      I’ve given PLENTY of arguments (factual) on the utility purposes of semi-automatic rifles.

      You simply don’t like the answers. Or, don’t feel they have any merit because, by your own choice, feel they serve no practical use in your life.

      I think you misunderstand

      I may be wrong. I am often wrong. I am only offering my opinion

      BUT even if I am wrong, in your view, about certain facts, especially technic facts about guns, I am describing PERCEPTION and perception is often reality in law making. That’s why people refer to politics as a battle for hearts snd minds

      So when you say that I (singular) don’t see the utility in MY life you may be making two miscalculations:

      1) my view of utility is likely the perception of the majority of people (because ARs owned are the minority, not because my perception is right)

      2) because the AR is the ficus (rightly or wrongly) you’re figuring your comments on the wrong side of the equation. It’s not my perception of value that is the real issue, it’s the lack of value (to society ) of the AR because it’s basically entertainment …in the safest country in the world ie no other country’s citizens feel the need and many are arguably less safe.

      Again, this is just a discussion. Nothing is changing but it’s not coincidence that it’s tough to justify the utility of the weapon, especially when compared to these very high profile events. That is the perception problem and probs just why you counter with reality (handguns kill
      More)

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Not sure if that’s clear with typos DH but was trying to say hi may be factually accurate snd right but we may also be discussing different things, perception versus reality

      Everyone understands that reality is hand guns kill more but the big events and the low utility to many leads to the easy question: what’s the point, why allow this? What are we gaining that makes it worth enduring these tragedies ?

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      What makes it legally a pistol? In other words what is the purpose on classifying it that way? To avoid some state ban?

      Or is it less expensive?

      Actually, if you watch the video, (unlike OT, I try to find short ones), 😎 the Sig is modifiable in that it has a number of things that can be changed, added, or removed, such as the brace. I think k that is what is meant by modified.

      Also, at a starting price of $2,000, it ain’t cheap. You would think that would be a deterrent to use it illegally. If you’re planning on spending life in prison, I would think they would be more frugal. Why drop $2k when you can get an AR for a lot less. (Granted, now that ARs are last year’s toilet paper, they’re probably no longer cheap. I’d heard that shops are gouging prices as people scarf up all the firearms from the shelves, along with a vast shortage in bullets. Prices on those are up, too.) 😃

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      @KarmaPolice

      This is one of my favourite, old school Onion parodies.

      Btw, this video is nsfw & nsfOT. 😎

      Hahahaha

      Thought you might like that one. 😎 It’s from waaaay back. I’m surprised I found it.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Much need laugh from that one. Thanks

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      the Boulder shooter had an Ar-556

      so its called a “pistol” but still fires a high velocity round .223 round, right?

      so why isnt the easy line in the law the muzzle velocity, if that is what kills?

      Actually, a .223 and a 5.56 NATO round is mostly the same thing; however, with some important differences. A .223 is considered a “civilian” version of the military NATO Round. You can fire .223 from both a .223 and a 5.56; however, you cannot safely fire a 5.56 from a weapon man hit to only fire .223. This is because the 5.56 round has a slight difference in design specs, and generate much higher pressure in the chamber. If you consistently fired NATO Rounds from a .223, it could literally explode very close to your face, so that would’ve safe.

      It’s kinda like firing +P or ++P ammo from a firearm. More expensive firearms are built to handle the added pressure; however, firing high pressure rounds from a cheap gun is also not a good idea. This is also why I never use reloads.

      Actually, I didn’t have many firearms until I moved here, and that was primarily because I can’t handle the heat down here, so one of the few activities I can handle is going to an indoor range. That, too, was awhile ago. Ammo has gotten way too expensive over the past ten years or so. It’s a lot easier to justify dropping $20 for 100 range rounds; however, once those boxes of fifty doubled in price, combined need with a number of ranges placing a purchase limit on ammo, it’s not fun to drop almost $100 by the time you factor in range time, targets, rounds, and all of the added intangibles, that’s a bit much for a brief time at a range. I’d rather buy a PS5.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Thank for explaining/expanding. Appreciate it

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6427

      The official also updated the description previously given of the weapon used in the killings. The source describes the weapon as an AR-15-style pistol that had been modified with an arm brace”

      For fuck’s sake…that’s literally how they’re sold from the manufacturer, gun stores, etc.

      There is no “modification”

      The gunman in Dayton, Ohio, killed nine people and injured 27 using a .223 caliber AR-15-style pistol he had “modified, in essence, to function like a rifle.”

      Lol. Again, nothing was “modified”.

      I mean, how much money do these media outlets pay their writers?

      So the useful idiots can gobble up the talking points.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      “a gun is a gun”

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      Sandy Hook was almost a decade ago and still a guy walked into a gun store and right out to kill 8 people.

      Oh, one other thing to consider. Granted, supposedly the latest guy had an AR15-style pistol, I forgot one thing earlier.

      I can’t quite for all states; however, in a good number of states, even Maryland, where buying an ounce of primo baby blood is easier to score than a pistol, you only have to be eighteen to buy a rifle, and rifles have no waiting period.

      Also, there’s one other thing to consider when looking at AR15s. Some, the less expensive ones only fire .223 rounds; however, like mine, there are more powerful versions, which also are designed to fire 5.56 NATO Rounds. (5.56 is the Caliber that is a military round and fired by M16s. While both can do damage, a 5.56 round is nastier than a .233.

      I was just reading about this

      The 5.56, it’s slightly heavier and more pressure, which I take to mean it has more force than the .223?

      Presumably that’s why it’s the military round, more stopping power?

      Exactly.

      Also, sorry for the redundant posting. This thread got big. 😎

      A quick reference, the AR in AR-15 doesn’t stand for Assault Rifle. It stands for Armalite Rifle. Armalite made the first AR; however, they had financial troubles, so they were purchased by Colt, who took over manufacture of the AR15 and then eventually did the M16.

      Colt lost the patent for a while, and then there were other conscious maturing AR15s. They eventually got the patent back, which is why my Bushmaster is an XM15E2S. It can fire both 5.56 and .223, and that model, which has a 16” barrel is a Carbine.

      Ironically, that model of XM15 was the way on used by the D.C. Sniper. The irony being that I lived within roughly two miles or less of most of the shootings. Additional irony is that I was actually questioned by the FBI for that, back in 2002. Granted, I was reaaaaally low on the list, as they caught the real people a couple days later. (My brother was in the rest area where they were arrested.) The fact that I was on the list at all shows gore’s little they really knew about the shooters. They originally thought it was a white van. It was a red Impala. All they knew, or felt certain, was that the person(s) they were looking for was either prior military or prior law enforcement. At the time, I lived at ground zero, I was prior military and I was, at that time, employed by the DoJ. They had a very long list. My “questioning” involved a morning phone call by some guy claiming he was FBI. I honestly thought, for a second, that a friend of mine was playing a joke. It wasn’t much of a questioning. He C asked where a I was, while in the phone call, on a few various dates. I told him I was with my girlfriend. He asked if she could verify that. She was also just waking up. I handed her the phone. She said a few “yeah’s”, and that was the end of it. They really knew very little.

      By the same token, when they were arrested in a rest stop in Frederick, Maryland, police swarmed in and sealed off the exits. My brother had just met someone to get a small amount of weed, so he thought they were busting the rest stop for weed. I’m pretty sure he just about shit himself, until reason kicked in and he figured that no one would send that much firepower for a weed bust. He had no idea it was the snipers, though.

      Oh well, sorry for the tangent. I haven’t thought about that week for almost twenty years. Sorry for the diatribe. 😎

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1194

      I think a major sticking point in this gun control conversation, is that gun owners see the solutions being proposed, and they see themselves losing their firearms without the problem being properly addressed.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      losing their firearms without the problem being properly addressed

      name an original legislative alternative proposed by the gun owner’s side?

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      see themselves losing their firearms

      in another post, a gun owner (DH), decries the current version of the Assault Weapons’ bill as infective be because it does NOT take away guns lol

      every gun restriction that I know have has grandfathered guns in the marketplace

      cmon mman

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      Much need laugh from that one. Thanks

      @KarmaPolice

      Welcome and Welcome. 😎

      Also, I’ll use this one post to clarify some points.

      For one, yeah, you are correct. These whack jobs that want a big body count are going to hover towards the weapons that achieves that. While that is just my opinion, I feel it’s accurate.

      As far as the NRA, that’s an entirely different group of whack jobs. I would never join the NRA. I will concede one point, though. While the NRA are whack jobs and help to serve as an impediment to reasonable gun laws, I don’t really think they’re the ones that are involved in the mass shootings. IMHO, they are just gun nuts, who have a somewhat myopic view of what a world with some logical restrictions would look like. As a group, they probably hate these shootings as much as anyone else who is sane. It’s counterintuitive for them to act in a manner that will call attention to regulating firearms.

      That said, again IMHO, most of these people who do these shootings are completely psychotic whack jobs. I don’t see why anyone would object to enacting some legislation that keeps firearms out of the hands of people who are mentally impaired. That is where I think the first laws should go, to find some way to keep firearms away from people who may go off the deep end. Yeah, it could violate some HIPAA Laws, but I’d rather permit people to flag mentally ill peeps, keeping them away from guns, I’m all for violating those people’s medical rights. That won’t bring the killing to zero, but it could have a decent impact on public safety. I don’t think anyone here would argue that these people have a right to access weapons. It’s bad press for gun owners who are responsible, and it’s even worse for the victims that these people go after.

      I could be wrong; however, I tend to think that all of the most recent shootings were committed by people with mental issues, and not by any militia types. (Although they are fun to poke fun at. 😎) Going further back to Columbine, mental illness or angry teenagers? I honestly have no idea. I just know that, about ten years ago, I had to stop by my son’s high school. Being more visibly “goth” back then, a number of school peeps looked at me at bit nervously. Like always, I was dressed completely in black, wearing the requisite Doc Marten’s Classic Eight-Eye, and a black trench coat. I was much more popular with the students than I was with the staff. 😃 (If anyone had noticed, my trench coat was actually a coat I received from someone I knew who was in the show “Forever Knight”. They were a gift to all of the cast from Paragon Entertainment. Their logo was stitched into one of the pockets.) Yeah, I guess I should’ve been smarter; however, I dressed like that every day, so it wasn’t something I even thought about. I was also working in television by then, and anyone behind the camera pretty much always looked a bit off. Television can be a very odd place to work. It’s almost like directors expect creative staff to look a bit off, like it’s a sign of creativity. 😎

      Oh, one quick point on a come from Walter about the US being unique with gun love. While this fires have some truth, when I worked in South Africa, you could purchase a fully automatic rifle at a kiosk in the mall. I saw at least two, and probably more. Just a small area with a bunch of machine guns on the wall, not too far from the theatres and the one coffee shop I would hit around lunchtime. The only other place I saw a lot of automatic weapons was in Israel. That was easier to explain, though. It seemed like every teenager had an M16 over their shoulder. I learned later that since military service is required, they were permitted to wear street clothes but always had to carry their weapons, so they were military. It was still a bit unnerving the first time I went into a Subway to grab a soda and had to walk past what looked like three little kids, buying lunch, all carrying M16s. It since been nice if someone mentioned that to me prior to me existing it.

      FWIW, I still only wear black; however, Doc’s are a bit warm for the weather here, so I’ve had to improvise to wearing black sneakers. (Or whatever they’re called these days. 😃)

      At any rate, I’m not sure I cleared anything up. To some degree, I can understand the argument from both sides, so I honestly have no idea where the real answer lies. Hopefully I don’t offend anyone on either side, as that was not my intention.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      Ugh. From above, “come from Walter” should’ve been “comment from earlier”.

      I swear, Apple adds new meaning to the term “autocorrect fuck-up”. They do it best. 😃

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      so two quick responses

      1.everyone of these killers is mentally ill in the everyday sense. The problem is the law only blocks a mentally ill person from buying guns when the have bene ADJUDICATED mentally ill, which almost never happens (at least not until after an event like these shootings). Red flag laws were a middele ground on this issue.

      2. South Africa and Israel — both war zones, so to speak. In the US you can LEGALLY buy an AR15, 1,000 rounds and drum mag without background check. In fact, the GOP and (Mancin) are resisting this change right now in Congress.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      so two quick responses

      1.everyone of these killers is mentally ill in the everyday sense. The problem is the law only blocks a mentally ill person from buying guns when the have bene ADJUDICATED mentally ill, which almost never happens (at least not until after an event like these shootings). Red flag laws were a middele ground on this issue.

      2. South Africa and Israel — both war zones, so to speak. In the US you can LEGALLY buy an AR15, 1,000 rounds and drum mag without background check. In fact, the GOP and (Mancin) are resisting this change right now in Congress.

      Very true on the mentally ill. This is why, IMHO, they need to step on some people’s rights and deny firearm sales to people who may not have been adjudicated mentally ill, but also expand it to include people who have some red flags. Yeah, I’m sure some people will be denied a firearm; however, if it will cut down on this happening every so many news cycles, then they should go for it. Worst case is that they set up some form of appeal process. That way, if someone can convince some legislative body that they aren’t an actual whack job, then they get their firearm, but they have to jump through a few extra hoops, and convince people they’re ok. That is far from a perfect plan; however, I feel it’s closer to a compromise than anything else I can imagine, and in order to cut down on the killings, there’s gonna have to be compromise and some people are gonna have to get their toes stepped on.

      I don’t see hardcore bans working. That will just make some people dig in deeper. Conversely, something has to give way. I’m tired of watching a new whack job every so many news cycles. It really feels like the “crazy” is starting to become more frequent. It used to be a couple times a year. Now it’s a couple times each month. This can’t remain the status quo.

      On South Africa and Israel, IMHO, both get too much negative press, and that includes the network I was with.

      With South Africa, it was really bad for awhile; however, it was always very pleasant when I was there. I would have no issue with living in Cape Town. (Background: Under Apartheid, the ANC, along with Nelson Mandela were considered a terrorist organisation. My first time going to South Africa, I went with someone who has grown up in Durban, and when I started he was signing in the UK Studios. On the flight down he gave me a little history about South Africa. His comment was: (humorously), “We used to have a problem with terrorism here, but we solved it by voting them into office”. It was actually a humorous way to give me a bit of a laugh on the fourteen hour flight from Heathrow.)

      All in all, the people in South Africa were all very nice, and oddly, it was one of the rare places where pretty much all of the South Africans I encountered all really loved Americans. They hated the British, I guess because of the colonisation thing, but there was so many things themed “American” it was scary.

      The mall, at the time, was the largest mall in the Southern Hemisphere. It was huge, including a theatre with twenty auditoriums, pretty much all playing US theatrical releases, and you had to work very hard to find a restaurant that would run more than $10 per person. They did have one amusing screw-up, actually at my go-to coffee shop. They sold breakfast and lunch items. On the breakfast menu, they had one item referred to as the American Breakfast. It was close, but they got it wrong. I imagine it was the British influence that caused the errors. The breakfast did come close to what you would get at a Denny’s, with three main exceptions. The first was, they did have bacon, but it was proposed like you would see it in the UK, or undercooked by US metrics. The serving was that they did have sausage, but it was Blood Saugsage, another UK thing. Finally, the biggest mistake, in my opinion. The American Breakfast was served with Baked Beans. In the US that is summertime cookout food. Baked Beans are served for breakfast in the UK. All in all, though, always a pleasant time and affordable, even though I was on Per Diem. The one thing that took a day or two to get used to was steakhouses. All of my co-workers, regardless of where I went, they always wanted to take me out for “American”, like people here would go out for Chinese or Italian. They loved steak houses there. The difficulty was that castle in South Africa are mostly for milk, as the climate and vegetation made cattle tough and chewy, so when you order steak, it’s never cattle. I was told that it was whatever the restaurant had available, so it was usually either Springbok, Kudu, or Zebra. That made sense, as when you would buy biltong in the stores, it was generally the same three; however, on occasion they would have a wildcard. Whew.

      With respect to Israel, granted it can get dicey there. At that location, we had the satellite uplink for broadcast, the main control room. A small studio, and the main tape library. So the station really ran out of Israel. (UK has some weird broadcast laws.) We would fly into Tel Aviv, drive to our hotel in Jerusalem, and then head south everyday as we worked roughly a few miles off of the Gaza Strip. I must admit, I was a like anxious going to Israel for the first time, but that eased fast.

      The thing I see with both of those places is, while there can be days of violence, just like here, all of the other days are pretty much peaceful. Wanting to really see all of the old city the first time I was there, and knowing it’s a maze within those walls, I accepted an invite from a Palestinian who took me around and I was able to see all four quadrants of the old city, including the Muslim Quarter, which I probably wouldn’t have done had I not had a Palestinian escort. It was a cool day and towards the end of the day we stopped in his family’s shop in the Muslim quarter. They’re really big on serving tea in the Muslim area. Again, everyone was incredibly nice.

      This leads to my reason for this long-ass tangent. The thing is, in all of my times in these areas that get really bad press, I never had a single negative encounter. My reasoning is that those places are just like the rest of the world views the US. The only time any of us make international headlines is due to some tragic event; however, like here, those days are divided by a ton of days that are very peaceful. This is where the media is fucked up, on all sides. Peace and Harmony are not good for airtime sales. No one wants to tune into the news to watch me drinking tea in a shop, or sitting at the bar in the hotel. As a result, the only time we are made aware of those countries are during times of unrest, and in my opinion, that presents an inaccurate view into those countries. (People on the inter continents are convinced that the US has a Columbine-level event that occurs daily. It may be bad, but it isn’t that bad. That’s how I view those areas.

      Any older peeeps may remember when one of the hotbeds of terrorism was Northern Ireland and the IRA. For a while, it felt like a few businesses were being blown up daily; however, fast-forward to now, and people travel to Belfast without hesitation. There was a time when most people wouldn’t go near Belfast. U2 made a career out of that turmoil.

      So, a bit verbose; however, I can honestly say I’ve never had a really insecure day at any time or location when I was bouncing around the planet like a pinball being smacked around almost weekly.

      Sorry for the diatribe. I’m talked / typed out. I’m sure I’m missing something, though. No worries. It’ll l

      That said, on violence, I feel that we are guided by media about where to place our outrage. No media, IMHO, is exempt from that. They need to make money to stay on the air. I also feel that this problem, the news media driving stories part, is a global thing. The way things are reported about the US in foreign media makes me understand why the rest of the planet places our actions alongside other Susie governments, like China and Russia. That’s one point that I don’t see changing anytime soon. Violence sells.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      “just another gun”

      reality is sometimes the best example

      Last night 10 people were shot in a crowded VA beach bar. Reportedly, three victims were shot IN THE FACE. The weapon(s) looks to have been a handgun.

      2 of 10 have died (so far)

      a fat dumpy dude killed 10 of 10 with an AR in a presumably less crowded grocery store

      Obviously the weapon matters. If you got shot in the face at close range by an AR, well . . anything is possible

    • Donkey_Hunter

      Participant
      Post count: 1808

      Another mass shooting with a handgun.

      Statistically, the weapon of choice.

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      Obviously the weapon matters. If you got shot in the face at close range by an AR, well . . anything is possible

      True, ARs are more efficient at killing; however, as I’m in “news avoidance”, I’m not certain what the weapon was that the guy used at the beach.

      That said, and in keeping with the statement that the weapon matters, it does; however, is not as simple as ARs vs pistols.

      The idiot at the bar could’ve had a .22 or a .25. Hell, even a .380 isn’t a guarantee. Smaller caliber weapons are more for contract killing and hits, as a bullet to the back of the head will rattle around inside the skull, ricocheting around and carving up grey matter. No exit wound, and very little blood. Smaller caliber sessions can hit someone in the face, and the bullet still bounce off, often not penetrating the skull. Blast someone in the face with a .45 ACP, .357 or .44 Magnum, and you’re going to blast someone’s head into pieces.

      Additionally, you can add in the type of bullet. A full-metal jacket, like a range round is gonna have a small entrance wound and the damage will not be as severe. Use a ++P jacketed hollow point, and depending upon the brand, ideally you will get a nice separation as the round mushrooms, and it expands into roughly a one inch diameter of spinning razors. Shit ammo can break apart, or when it mushrooms, over-expansion can peel the petals back too far. This will not cause as much damage as proper expansion.

      I used to have a lot of Black Talons, in 9mm and .40 S&W. They were kinda outlawed, but original Black Talons are legal in Florida. They even looked nasty, with a black, lubalox coating. They were actually improved upon and are now called something like Ranger SXTs? (Super Expansion Technology). A lot of the boxes of those I would but would be marked Law Enforcement Use, or something to that effect. It’s also legal here to have LEO rounds. Most I would buy on Gunbrokers dot com, but the gun shops carried them. I would also but a lot of 5.56 NATO Rounds, that were military issue. Stores always carry that stuff, a lot of times at a discount.

      Personally, I’ve always preferred Speer Gold Dots, and Federal Premium HST Rounds. (They used to be called Hydra-Shok thus the HST.)

      Here is a link that discusses some of those. (I just limited it to 9mm Luger.

      https://www.midwayusa.com/best-products/5-best-9mm-defensive-carry-ammo

      Here is a blood from the article about the HSTs.

      “This ammunition was engineered to meet or exceed ammunition testing protocols; these protocols put bullets through 10% ordinance gelatin, steel, wallboard, plywood, laminated automobile safety glass and gelatin covered in heavy clothing and measure how well the bullets penetrate, expand and hold together.

      Extensive testing has shown that the on average the 9mm Luger load will deliver 13.63″ of penetration, 0.63″ of expansion, 90% weight retention through all FBI barriers when shot through a Glock 17 at 10 feet.”

      As noted in the article / review, a lot is about penetration and expansion. A good number of 9mm rounds, fired at a windshield from either side, can bounce off the window. Not good if you’re being carjacked. A .45 will blast right through the window. A .357 Sig, or a .357 Magnum will fire right through the car door, including the steel panels. A .357 Magnum can crack an engine block.

      So, really, it has a lot to do with the pistol, the caliber, and the ammo. A .22, for protection, is pretty much useless, IMHO.

      Bill Maher had a humorous comment in last night’s show. Roughly, “a Christian psycho shot up some massage parlours, and a Muslim psycho shot up a grocery store. When an atheist gets angry they rearrange their bookshelf”. 😎 Definitely funnier with his wording and delivery.

      Another mass shooting with a handgun.

      Statistically, the weapon of choice.

      Yep, very true. The rest of my reasoning is above.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      As usual, a few typos above from autocorrect. I don’t think they make the post unintelligible, though. As such, I’m not editing that one. 😎

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Another mass shooting with a handgun.

      Statistically, the weapon of choice.

      lol

      <input type=”hidden” name=”IL_IN_ARTICLE”>

      avoiding the point. thats okay

      the Boulder shooter had a handgun on him. didnt use it

      you substitute ubiquity for choice. just because people carry handguns all the time and therefore they get used often doesnt mean its the CHOICDE of someone who wants one of these hgh profile events

      “yeah, I am going to go out in a BLAZE of glory, with my body armor and . .err . . a revolver!”

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      ubiquitous or choice?

      NEWSWEEK

      Of the last 80 mass shootings in the United States, more than a quarter, including Monday’s shooting in Boulder, Colorado, involved the use of AR-15 rifles.”

      SO ROUGHLY 25%+ are ARs, but wait

      Among those incidents are some of the deadliest mass shootings in the nation’s history, including the Las Vegas shooting, which left 59 people dead; the Orlando, Florida, nightclub shooting, which killed 50; and the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Connecticut, which killed 28.

      so the difference is that the AR events are more deadly (less frequent) and this is why there is a distinction between choice (a killer buys a gun SPECIFICALLY to kill people in a soft target event), like the Boulder guy not jusing his handgun, same with Parkland, Matten has handguns but buys ARs for Pulse, and unbiquity. So, here are the AR events:

      The Boulder shooting this week
      The 2019 Jersey City, New Jersey shooting
      The Midland-Odessa interstate shooting in Texas in 2019
      The 2019 Dayton shooting in Ohio
      The Tree of Life synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh in 2018
      The Waffle House shooting in Nashville in 2018
      The 2018 shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School
      The 2018 Melcroft, Pennsylvania, shooting
      The shootings at Rancho Tehama Reserve in California in 2017
      The Sutherland Springs, Texas, church shooting in 2017
      The 2017 Las Vegas shooting
      The 2017 Plano, Texas, shooting
      The 2017 Lincoln County, Mississippi, shootings
      The Orlando nightclub shooting in 2016
      The 2015 San Bernardino, California, attack
      The 2015 Colorado Springs, Colorado, shooting
      The 2013 Santa Monica, California, shooting
      The 2013 homicides in South Valley, New Mexico
      The 2012 Webster, New York, shooting
      The Sandy Hook Elementary shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, in 2012

      UNLIKE the beach shooting, most of these are no connection between shooter/victim or planned revenge shooting, the goal is the EVENT not a specific target? its not a fight that escalates, its an intentional high profile killing for the event fanatasy?

      not sure

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      By the way, we will just ignore this gun speak disocnnect

      Defending the AR — “the gun isnt bad IT JUST LOOKS SCARY TO YOU NON-GUN PEOPLE”

      BUT– “the handgun is the mass shooters gun of choice” . . even though the ASR is the one that is supposedly scary to all the victims?

      In other words, the body armor/soft target shoot up has become a thing so I would imagine the shooters choose the AR in part because it fulfills the fantasy of TERRORIZING people, in a way a handgun would not

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      The VA shooting is two different t events each with multiple people shooting at each other, so two gunfights

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6427

      Another mass shooting with a handgun.

      Statistically, the weapon of choice.

      An inconvenient truth for the gun loon.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Another mass shooting with a handgun.

      Statistically, the weapon of choice.

      An inconvenient truth for the gun loon.

      This would sting so much more if you hadn’t recently demonstrated your inability to read, right?

      Maybe pick up some Dr Seuss? I am sure there are a few titles in the collection you’d really like.

      😉

      (Way to add your usual nothing)

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      University of Alabama Research

      US Problem is ACCESS. Not mental illness (because, for example our suicide rates are normal but our mass shooting numbers are UNPARALLELED, no other country even close.

      Also, key finding was that DESIRE TO KILL came before gun purchase with most mass shooters (based on port event evidence of planning and social media posts and family/friend interviews). Boulder guy is latest example.

      Author of report offered a “cultural magnifier” in th US is the emphasis on FAME. THE country celebrates celebrity and many of the mass shooters are seeking fame (or iNFA my), often times being people who feel overlooked, treated unfairly.

      The big points that confirms access as the problem is the sequencing and average mental health statistics here (other countries with worse mental health but no real mass shooting problem)

      The author was asked what the solution is. He said long term reduce access. No other way. Short term though, Red Flag laws and education BECAUSE the sane research that identified the sequencing (desire to kill first followed by purchase) obviously uncovered that many shooters exhibited signs, made comments etc, in some cases with people saying AFTER the event “we knew it” or similar.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Only coincidence or luck guess but the sequencing issue is related to the discussion about ubiquity versus choice or what makes an FBI mass shooting event, like the one is vA beach, different then the events like Boulder, Vegas.

      Btw, Vegas is interesting because he was a long time gun owner, but he also started to stockpile at some point

    • lazyfans

      Participant
      Post count: 11

      At first, the coronavirus pandemic was called the great equalizer.

      It seemed to be affecting people of all races, backgrounds and income levels, from Hollywood actors to NBA players to low-wage service workers.

      But as more data becomes available, one thing is clear: Covid-19 has only magnified the systemic inequalities that persist in the United States. And nonwhite Americans, especially African Americans, have been hit hard on nearly every front.

      Though the available data paints a grim picture, the numbers are incomplete. Much of the state and federal data on Covid-19 cases and deaths are preliminary, while race and ethnicity information isn’t even available for tens of thousands of cases. Advocacy groups have called on the federal government to release more detailed numbers, and experts and community leaders fear that the reality may be even worse.

      “When white America catches a cold, black America catches pneumonia,” Steven Brown, a research associate at the Urban Institute, a Washington-based think tank, told CNN Business.

      Here’s what we know about how the Covid-19 pandemic is affecting African Americans.

      Dying at higher rates
      African Americans are dying at disproportionately higher rates compared to all other ethnicities.

      As of Thursday, 16,329 black Americans are known to have died due to Covid-19, according to an analysis from the American Public Media (APM) Research Lab.

      That’s out of approximately 61,000 deaths for which race and ethnicity data was available. About 75,000 people total had lost their lives to the coronavirus at the time of the analysis, a number that has risen to more than 77,000 as of Friday.

      APM compiled its data from the 38 states and the District of Columbia that are reporting the race and ethnicity of residents who have died of Covid-19.

      To put those numbers into context, African Americans make up about 13% of the US population, according to the Census Bureau, but 27% of known Covid-19 deaths.

      In contrast, about 60% of the US population is white, but make up 49% of known Covid-19 deaths. Hispanics or Latinos are about 18% of the population, and 17% of deaths. Americans of Asian descent make up about 6% of the population and 5% of deaths.

      A recent study by a team of epidemiologists and clinicians at four universities found similar results. That study compared counties with a disproportionate number of black residents — those with a population of 13% or more — with those with lower numbers of African American residents.

      Counties with higher populations of black residents accounted for 52% of coronavirus diagnoses and 58% of Covid-19 deaths nationally, according to the study.

      “Social conditions, structural racism, and other factors elevate risk for COVID-19 diagnoses and deaths in black communities,” wrote the researchers from Emory University, Johns Hopkins University, the University of Mississippi and Georgetown University.

      More likely to live in viral hotspots
      In some cities and states, the disparities are even more glaring — and Latinos are greatly affected too.

      Black residents in Kansas are seven times more likely to die of the virus than white residents, according to the APM Research Lab analysis.

      In Missouri, Wisconsin and Washington, DC, African Americans are six times more likely to die than whites, the APM analysis found, and in Michigan and, they’re five times more likely.

      In Arkansas, Illinois, Louisiana, New York, Oregon and South Carolina, African Americans are three to four times more likely to die of the virus than white residents, according to the APM analysis.

      In New York City, more than 2 in 1,000 black and African American residents have died of Covid-19. More than 2 in 1,000 Hispanic and Latino residents have died of the virus, rates that are substantially higher than those seen in the city’s white and Asian populations.

      In California, Latinos are 39.8% of California’s population, though they make up 48% of Covid-19 cases, according to the state’s health department.

      Looking at the death rates across different age groups, the impact is even starker. Latino residents make up 43% of the state’s population aged 18-49, but nearly 70% of deaths, according to the state’s health department. For residents ages 50-64 and 65 and older, the death rates are disproportionate as well.

      In Chicago, Latinx residents make up 38% of the city’s Covid-19 cases, more than any other demographic. According to Census data, Hispanics are 29% of the city’s population.

      Even for black Americans who might not have gotten infected themselves, the devastation has been personal.

      About 1 in 4 black adults say they personally know someone who has been hospitalized or died due to having the coronavirus, according to Pew Research Center.

      Meanwhile, about 1 in 10 white and Hispanic adults say they know someone who has been as seriously affected by the virus.

      They’re losing their jobs at high rates
      The pandemic has been devastating economically across nonwhite communities.

      Millions of Americans lost their jobs in recent weeks, according to federal Bureau of Labor Statistics data released Friday.

      The unemployment rate soared to 14.2% for white Americans, 16.7% for black Americans, 14.5% for Asian Americans and 18.9% for Hispanics, record highs for all ethnic groups except African Americans.

      Many more are experiencing pay cuts and other wage losses.

      Some 61% of Hispanic Americans and 44% of black Americans said in in March and April that they or someone in their household had experienced a job or wage loss due to the coronavirus outbreak, compared with 38% of white adults, according to a Pew Research Center survey.

      The losses are especially devastating because black and brown communities were already in precarious economic situations.

      Some 73% of black Americans and 70% of Hispanic Americans said in March and April that they do not have rainy day funds to cover expenses for three months in case of an emergency, the Pew survey found.

      As cities ramp up their enforcement of social distancing, it appears black people are disproportionately affected there.

      More than 80 percent of those who were issued summonses for social distancing violations in New York city were black and Latino, according to data released Friday, confirming what advocates and local elected leaders have clamored about after the enforcement started over six weeks ago.

      The data revealed 374 summonses were handed out from March 16 to May 5, averaging less than 10 summonses a day over the 42-day period. And that total, 193 of those issued summonses were black and 111 were Hispanic, according to the New York City Police Department.

      The summonses were issued for what the NYPD said were violations of emergency procedures and acts likely to spread disease. Mayor Bill de Blasio acknowledged that the disparities were indications that something needed to be fixed.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Another FBI definition mass shooting

      Impulse shooting (gun on person and fight breaks out)

      Handgun

      1 dead 7 injured

    • lazyfans

      Participant
      Post count: 11

      ALA STANFORD IS a doctor, but right now her office is a parking lot, a street corner, the sidewalk outside of a Philadelphia Baptist church. Stanford leads a mobile unit of doctors who are bringing free Covid-19 testing to the neighborhoods in Philadelphia that are being hit hardest by the virus: underserved black communities. Across the United States, black Americans are contracting and dying of Covid-19 at wildly disproportionate rates, and in some areas, they aren’t being tested for the virus nearly as frequently as their white peers, either.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3277

      Also, key finding was that DESIRE TO KILL came before gun purchase with most mass shooters (based on port event evidence of planning and social media posts and family/friend interviews). Boulder guy is latest example.

      Article today amplifying this point:

      https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/30/politics/secret-service-mass-shootings-report/index.html

      Community awareness thwarted attempted school attacks, new Secret Service report says

      “Most potential attackers displayed concerning, observable behavior while developing the attack, showing a list of moments in which authorities or parents could intervene. Almost two-thirds of would-be attackers displayed emotional or psychological symptoms such as depression, homicidal thoughts, suicidal thoughts, or anger. Some students displayed a concerning interest in violence or researched past attacks such as Columbine, the Oklahoma City bombing, or the Aurora, Colorado, movie theater shooting. A few students appeared drawn to White supremacy.

      Roughly 85% of plotters did “weapons-related planning,” which could include researching weapons or taking steps to acquire them, such as procuring a firearm or building a bomb. Potential school attackers often planned their actions in detail and some of them chose clothing or music they hoped to play during the incident.
      The report also highlights an alarming trend: Often, plotters had unimpeded access to firearms for a list of reasons including being old enough to buy a gun legally, knowing the code to a safe with firearms inside, or parents simply allowing students access to guns inside the home.”

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