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    • Kermit56

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      Post count: 169

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 2525

      fresh meat!

      Actually, once you get past the headline though, its kind of recycled old news.

      In fact, the article says as much (Biden rejected previously).

      Even if he was to reverse, CA set a date of . . . 2035 . . so what if Biden says “yes, how about 2055!”

      and more importantly, the thing all you Trumpers seem to miss ALL THE TIME . . is that its the market not the politicians leaving you behind:

      “General Motors announced Thursday that it will stop making gas-powered cars and trucks and exclusively produce zero-emissions vehicles by 2035, upending the American automaker’s decades long reputation for producing gas-guzzling SUVs” January 2021

      Toyota is 2040 (announced that plan in 2017)

      Ford is also phasing out in Europe by same date. will probably announce US soon.

      Japan – 2035

      UK — 2040

      Germany – cant even register a gas car after 2035

      China – 2040

      Its actually TRUMP who was out of step WITH THE MARKET by interfering with CA’s emissions requirements (which the 2 senators also asked Biden to correct)

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 2525

      transportation by rickshaw only?

      Tesla makes an awesome rickshaw

      • Kermit56

        Participant
        Post count: 169

        But, but, the manufacturing of the batteries leaves a massive carbon footprint. Ergo, rickshaw baby!

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3851

      Non-gas transportation has actually been around for a long time.

      null

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 2525

      But, but, the manufacturing of the batteries leaves a massive carbon footprint. Ergo, rickshaw baby!

      SLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDDDDEE to the right, SLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE to the left . .

      so it wasnt really gas cars you were concerned about, it was “Ca Dems” or “Biden?”

      or, you just like to show off your cocoon talking points so you moved on to “battery MANUFACTURING . . carbon footprint”

      that argument is based on ELECTRICTY used in manufacturing . . electricity which is itself increasingly going GREEN . . not something unique to battery manufacturing

      even if it was true though, your sort of saying that the positive environment impact of gasless vehicles ON THE ROAD EVERY DAY FOR YEARS is outdone by their carbon footprint in manufacture? Like the vehicles are single use? lol or the manufacturing carbon footprint = a decade of gasless driving? whoa!!!!

      (kidding aside, this thread is a great example of the existing point of view “trumping” (pun intended) fact. When one point is debunked, it just brings another . . quicksand . . because the loyalty is to the point of view over fact.

      • Kermit56

        Participant
        Post count: 169

        You must be dizzy all day as much spinning as you do. You’re being deliberately obtuse and it’s boring…

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 2525

      alternative post by Kermit:

      “really, I didnt know that. Interesting.”

      /thread

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 2525

      You must be dizzy all day as much spinning as you do. You’re being deliberately obtuse and it’s boring…

      the Cove Shuffle

      1. post something easily debunked

      2. get debunked

      3. SLIDE the topic

      4. get called for slide

      5. attack the other poster

      sort of the way these things work :-)

      did you ever read those other DeSantis stories? I recall, you said it was just one source. It was multiple sources AND events.

    • FireLicht2020

      Participant
      Post count: 6189

      Another strange hill to die on…

      Renewable energy is the future. The market has spoken. It isn’t a liberal agenda…

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3851

      Electric is just as bad for the environment as gasoline. Plus who do you trust more, the Saudis or the Democrats? Exactly. The Saudis.

      Sincerely, Big Oil

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      Even if he was to reverse, CA set a date of . . . 2035 . . so what if Biden says “yes, how about 2055!”

      and more importantly, the thing all you Trumpers seem to miss ALL THE TIME . . is that its the market not the politicians leaving you behind:

      Most true. Legislation is not going to end gas-powered cars. This country can’t even build or re-build a bridge in under fifty years, leading to all of the crumbling Infrastructure that defines this country, yet their going BG to retro-fit / upgrade every gas station in the country to transition to not selling gas? I wouldn’t be holding my breath.

      Here is an example that required much less, and TBH, I’m surprised they were only fifteen years late. This was the requirement that all video transmissions go from analog to digital. The initial date set for this was 1995, then pushed multiple times. In plain language, it made Television that received analog NYSC (in the US / Japan, PAL in the rest of the world), obsolete, and left only digital transmissions. The various reasons for these delays involved people not being able to afford the new technology, companies being able to manufacture the new technology with an affordable footprint for all or most income levels, and getting a shit ton of private industries, along with the public, to a stage where it was even possible. Afaik, that requirement on the telecommunications industry took roughly almost twenty years after the initial deadline before you weren’t able to pick up an analog signal.

      Cars / transportation is a clusterfuck that dwarves the issues required to sundown gasoline-powered vehicles.

      I do not expect to see this happen in my lifetime. I’d be surprised if my daughter, who is twenty-one, will see it before she hits her fifties.

      I will need deer in an EV. No desire and I don’t give a fuck about burning fossil fuels. My ‘69 Camaro, when I was late teens to early twenties, got four miles per gallon of leaded gas. I didn’t but a car that only took unleaded gas until the early 90s, which required me to buy lead additive at the speed shops.

      The government and the earthy-crunchy folk can bitch all they want. Gas powered cars aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.

      One thing I do feel comfortable saying: Europe will get there years before it’s EF been a thing in the US. Not surprising, considering the EU outlawed incandescent bulbs a loooooong while ago. You can still buy them in bulk in the US at any of the stores that are patronised by the inbred. (Walmart, various $ Stores, etc. (I’m still not used to seeing Walmart’s, tbh. In the county I grew up, Walmart isn’t allowed to build, so fortunately, I’d never seen one until I left the D.C. area. I’ll never actually shop in one.))

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      Tesla makes an awesome rickshaw

      That’s what sucks about getting by old. I’ll never own a Tesla. I don’t even see the draw in why anyone would want one. (Not to mention that driving any EV is like sitting on top of a box of C4. Current tech pool of, if those batteries are hit in the proper manner, it will blow you to bits with the ensuing explosion.)

      I’ll take a 327, bored forty over, with machined heads, high-lift cam, hi-rise manifold, that sucks gas to the point where the gas gauge moves as fast as the speedometer. 😎 If a car can’t pull a quarter in under eleven seconds, I’ll leave those to the housewives and senior citizens. I just want speed.

      I’m too old to change a lot of things. Driving way too fast, and overly aggressive is something I’ll never stop doing. I still can’t figure out why people complain about Florida drivers. Driving in D.C. is like a NASCAR event. In the past, I’ve even used the occasional sidewalk, and “One Way” is optional, depth Deb hit on if you can drive fast enough to pull onto another road before the wall of cars approaching you gets too close. 😃 (You see Don him by like that in D.C. all the time, but never down here. Also, there isn’t enough hilly area here to have fun. When in D.C., if I have a few choice roads to myself, I will hit the pedal at the proper moment in order to get airborne. Nothing better than to catch some righteous air at about 90 mph. 😎)

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 2525

      I’ll take a 327, bored forty over, with machined heads, high-lift cam, hi-rise manifold, that sucks gas to the point where the gas gauge moves as fast as the speedometer. 😎 If a car can’t pull a quarter in under eleven seconds, I’ll leave those to the housewives and senior citizens. I just want speed.

      You must not realize that a Tesla is faster than what you describe

      0-60 in 2.4

      I once had a car that was one of the the fastest production cars in America for its year. It wasn’t that fast. Electric drive is super high torque

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      You must not realize that a Tesla is faster than what you describe

      0-60 in 2.4

      I once had a car that was one of the the fastest production cars in America for its year. It wasn’t that fast. Electric drive is super high torque

      True, but it’s over-priced and trendy, so two things I won’t do. Plus Elon Musk is an Asshole. I’d never give him a dime.

      It’s also doesn’t solve the exploding battery problem.

      I’ll take a gas-guzzling engine, manual shift, that has enough power to lift the front-end off of the ground. I could pull some decent wheelies in my Camaro, plus when I’m driving, I like the engine to be as loud as possible. If my stereo can be heard over the engine, it’s not loud enough. 😎

      My ex’es brother-in-law, trust fund kid, got a ‘69 Barracuda Convertible, with the 426 Hemi. It could pull 9.6 in a quarter right out of the showroom. Afaik, he still has it in his garage.

      With my Camaro, (I had a number of other cars, but that was the fastest), I could be at over 80 mph from the length of a highway on-ramp. The one time I timed it, I pulled 11.2 at 138 mph, but that was with me driving. The car could do better than that.

      I would get bored in D.C. traffic, so as I idled, I would gun the engine and add in a little clutch play, if ting the front wheels while stuck on the beltway.

      My only complaint was that all of those cars back then were mostly for straightaways. There was very little weight in the ass-end, so very easy to pull a 360 on damp asphalt. I had a Corvette that was better on handling.

      So, nah, I’ll pass on EVs in this lifetime. I’m too old to change. 😎

      (If I had disposable cash, I wouldn’t even think of Tesla. I’d be dropping the $$ on some insanely overpriced European car that can surpass 200 mph, and requires a Saudi tanker following it. 😎)

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 2525

      Well, I used to dabble in street racing as a kid, had a nice classic car

      The Tesla is a blast to drive. Speed is speed

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      Well, I used to dabble in street racing as a kid, had a nice classic car

      The Tesla is a blast to drive. Speed is speed

      Yeah, but it’s still “trendy” and Elon is still an asshole. I love watching his rockets explode.

      EVs are for the mundanes. No Goth peeps would be caught in anything that pretentious.

      I like my engines to scream. 😎 Maybe it’s a Gen X thing. We ARE the generation that doesn’t give a fuck about anything, after all. 😃 We’ve dedicated our lives to being the biggest part of the problem, and not really caring about it. I spent my High school years protesting the Vietnam War and trying to be the biggest pain in the ass possible to society.

      You would’ve thought us Gen X peeps who’ve matured and changed, but, nope, I still don’t give a shit about pretty much anything.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 2525

      Love it. I relate to your feelings, just that I dont mind Musk (hes loony) so the cars are fun

    • DCGoth

      Participant
      Post count: 1473

      Well, I used to dabble in street racing

      Around 1991 or so, I accepted a position working in the Office of the Postmaster General. My office was actually in his office. (Back then he also had ten secretaries.) This was at the main headquarters, top floor, located in L’Enfant Plaza. As with every other position I’ve had, it required a clearance.

      The fun part was, getting a clearance at the USPS was tougher than getting a Federal Law Enforcement Clearance. I was called into a meeting with the OIG. Like most every Clearance I’ve had, they had full access to lifetime records. They pulled my lifetime MVA record. Granted, I was in my early thirties in ‘91. They had questions on my clearance. They wanted to know, (actually gave me explain), why my MVA Record was over four pages long. I gave them the most simple answer I could. I just said: “I was seventeen and owned a ‘69 Camaro. I’d be worried if I DIDN’T have that many tickets.” 😃 They had me put that in writing and I passed my clearance.

      I’d like to say I drive slower and more safely now, but I can’t. I once drove from D.C. to Tampa in nine hours. I think I averaged about 115 mph for most of the drive. When I’m in D.C., red lights are still an option, to be ignored if the crosswalks are cleared.

      I’d rather have a beer bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.


       

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 2525

      “I was seventeen and owned a ‘69 Camaro. I’d be worried if I DIDN’T have that many tickets.” 😃 They had me put that in writing and I passed my clearance.

      hahaha

      awesome

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 6209

      Another strange hill to die on…

      Renewable energy is the future. The market has spoken. It isn’t a liberal agenda…

      Has the market spoken, or is the market reacting the big-government regulations we’ve seen from the state that people can’t get out of fast enough? Hell, Musk used million upon millions of government dollars to get Tesla where it is now. Lolz @ the “market.”

      You people have no idea what the hell you’re talking about. Absolutely perfect useful idiots.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 2525

      Another strange hill to die on…

      Renewable energy is the future. The market has spoken. It isn’t a liberal agenda…

      Has the market spoken, or is the market reacting the big-government regulations we’ve seen from the state that people can’t get out of fast enough? Hell, Musk used million upon millions of government dollars to get Tesla where it is now. Lolz @ the “market.”

      You people have no idea what the hell you’re talking about. Absolutely perfect useful idiots.

      Consumer Reports is a well known LIBERAL MAFIA FRONT?

      https://advocacy.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/CR-National-EV-Survey-December-2020-2.pdf

      New Consumer Reports survey finds majority of drivers are interested in electric vehicles
      December 17, 2020

      WASHINGTON — A new nationally-representative survey by Consumer Reports finds that 7 in 10 American adults with a valid drivers license are interested in getting a plug-in electric vehicle (EV) in the future, but charging and upfront prices remain concerns for buyers.

      ITS PRECISELY THIS THAT HAS GM MOVING AWAY FROM GAS VEHICLES BEFORE ANY FEDERAL MANDATE

      before

      GM wouldnt join things like the Business Ambition Pledge if it was rejected by their consumers

      Oh, Pew Research (October 2019):

      Two-thirds of U.S. adults say the federal government is doing too little to reduce the effects of global climate change. Similar shares say the government is doing too little to protect water (68%) and air quality (67%), while majorities say the same when it comes to protecting animals and their habitats (62%) and protecting open lands in the national parks (55%)

      *********************

      if you live in the cocoon everything is a government or leftist conspiracy because the world changes . . and its NOT supposed to do that

      :-)

    • spartan

      Participant
      Post count: 1032

      There are many reasons to move off from oil, if as it is believed it is a finite resource and only has a hundred years or so before it is exhausted. Look around you. Everything is made from oil. We need to conserve it, and oil drilling isn’t going away anytime soon.

      The most ironic thing is the lithium batteries that folks are celebrating as “renewable” and planet savers… are made from oil products.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 2525

      There are many reasons to move off from oil, if as it is believed it is a finite resource and only has a hundred years or so before it is exhausted. Look around you. Everything is made from oil. We need to conserve it, and oil drilling isn’t going away anytime soon.

      The most ironic thing is the lithium batteries that folks are celebrating as “renewable” and planet savers… are made from oil products.

      the issue isn’t the oil though

      thought that was obvious

      • spartan

        Participant
        Post count: 1032

        If you are referring to the planet is about to die due to global warming, I’m pretty much a denier on that. But that is another discussion.

        If you are talking about the carbon chucked out by the internal combustion engine, these oil by products still need to be processed, refined and manufactured. Getting rid of the car engine isn’t the end all and be all that it is professed to be. It will be an improvement from an environmental perspective I agree, just not the nirvanna that people expect.

        I am, believe it or not, somewhat of an environmentalist but for reasons other than politics. More for conservation of habitat, species and such like. It’s been an interest of mine for decades. For those reasons I believe that finding alternative means of energy are noble and correct. I also believe that the current forcing of the process is resulting in solutions that are politically acceptable but not ready for prime time. The end result is that we will have the worst of both worlds and the best of none.

    • KarmaPolice

      Participant
      Post count: 2525

      I’m pretty much a denier on that

      weird, wouldn’t have guessed that :-)

      On the rest though, and trying to be fair, I wonder if you see the logical flaw in this:

      “If you are talking about the carbon chucked out by the internal combustion engine, these oil by products still need to be processed, refined and manufactured. Getting rid of the car engine isn’t the end all and be all that it is professed to be. It will be an improvement from an environmental perspective I agree, just not the nirvanna that people expect.”

      Only a loon would think it nirvana so I think you’d be hard pressed to find people taking that position. Also, its not just cars, obviously. One of the biggest areas of green energy advancements is in THE BIGGEST source of greenhouse gases (electricity and heat) (cars are second). Figure you might know that given your comments about Texas ice storms :-)

      Perhaps not surprising that I would disagree with this:

      “I also believe that the current forcing of the process is resulting in solutions that are politically acceptable but not ready for prime time. The end result is that we will have the worst of both worlds and the best of none.”

      all new industries come on too early and evolve precisely because EXISTING industries who stand to lose put up fake barriers, such as overblowing safety. the auto industry is a great example. They didnt lead people to EV change, people (customers) led the industry and NOTABLY it took an outsider (Musk) to really change things

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