Ultimate Manning-Favre-Winston Comparison

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  • #1242672
    ryan24
    Participant

    I agree that they can (meaning it’s possible).

    But they can’t be relied upon to do it (which is the work the qualifier “reliably” was meant to do there).

    I don’t disagree with any of your assessment however the problem is how many of those guys are around in the first place….and I don’t think it’s a great population at the moment….and how many of them are acquirable at the moment.

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    #1242690
    Nobody
    Participant

    @ryan24

    The first or the latter (relied upon)?

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    #1242768
    ryan24
    Participant

    The first or the latter (relied upon)?

    Relied upon. I don’t find there are many of those and none of those are available.

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    #1242781
    Nobody
    Participant

    @ryan24

    Agreed on both.

    The window narrows further if you’re considering system.  Even guys that could be relied upon to win 4 in their present system couldn’t be relied upon to do so in Arians’ system.

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    #1242827
    tog
    Participant

    I don’t disagree with any of your assessment however the problem is how many of those guys are around in the first place….and I don’t think it’s a great population at the moment….and how many of them are acquirable at the moment.

    @ryan24

    I mean this is all true. But its also why competing for a Super bowl is so hard – and why so few teams are able to do so consistently. In the NFL right now you have a tier that is fairly consistently in the hunt (Patriots, Saints, Ravens, etc.) and then a lower class that never is (Browns, Bucs, Lions).

    To move from one category to the other you in part need very good, consistent QB play. The only place you can find it (without a freak accident like Brees/Manning) is in the draft. So you have to keep going to that well until you get your guy.

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    #1242912
    BucsFan83
    Participant

    Throwing in that Winston has had the most yards in the first quarter since payton manning in 2004.

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    #1243238
    KoalaNui
    Participant

    I see Don Quixote continues his campaign of stupidity and spin.  Carry on, Don.

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    #1243256
    tog
    Participant

    @sunnyd

    Good post.

    What I would say is you’re putting too much on Y/A or ANY/A.

    It has its uses, but it’s not a great metric of overall QB performance. DVOA, QBR, and PFF grades are all far superior metrics. Just a quick example, Wentz is 20th in DVOA (Winston is 24th).

    What those kind of stats do is factor in things like Y/A but a lot more (as you know). So I think when you use that Wentz comparison for Y/A – it’s just too much on Y/A either way.

    While you’re obviously correct some sacks are on the QB, I’m not sure even PFF grading is perfect in assigning sacks.

    The bet metric I know though is the a combination of either PFF grading OR FootballOutsider Rankings AND ESPN’s Pass Block Win Rate.

    Given that the Bucs have ranked well in ESPN’s PBWR I’m willing to say that a lot of sacks are some combination of scheme and QB.

    P.S. As for Jameis compared to other QBs… Aren’t you just saying that the level of QB play has really improved? I mean that’s your point? That’s also a problem. Bucs have to play those teams too, and thus need elite QB play.

    I also don’t care that much about yards. It’s over-hyped. And as I’ve said elsewhere, there’s a reason Winston has never ranked well in advanced QB metrics (whether PFF, QBR, FootabllOutsiders, EPA… you name it).

    I strongly believe fans (and the Bucs) overhype specific stats and far too much downplay negative plays.

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    #1243261
    tog
    Participant

    @sunnyd

    Here’s the thing I’ll say on Winston too.

    Contrary to what posters say on this board (and the media regurtitates) Winston has had some years of good pass blocking and good/average OL play.

    If you look at things like PFF rankings or FO for the OL and DVOA, the OL and and defense have had some average to good years. The run blocking has been pretty spotty, but not the pass blocking. Even last year with Cappa, Bucs were 15th in FO’s pass blocking rankings.

    The whole “if he had a good defense” or “if he had a good OL is nonsense. He’s had good enough production from those units other than defense the last 2 years. And even then, this year the Bucs D has outranked the O in DVOA ALL YEAR.

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    #1243262
    notabucsfan
    Participant

    Throwing in that Winston has had the most yards in the first quarter since payton manning in 2004.

    But the ERA is different!!! He is also the first quarterback ever to throw for 450 yards in back to back games but the ERA is different….

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    #1243263
    tog
    Participant

    But the ERA is different!!! He is also the first quarterback ever to throw for 450 yards in back to back games but the ERA is different….

    I don’t know who’s alt account you are, but you post a lot of stupid stuff.

    450 yards in back-to-back is an arbitrary statistic. Why not 460 or 430 or 415?

    What a dumb thing to harp on.

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    #1243264
    DonkeyHunter
    Participant

    ^^^

    On tilt…

    *not tog*

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    #1243269
    notabucsfan
    Participant

    @tog Its just funny how you keep harping on how the ERA is different to disprove any current success Winston has but he has done things not done since Peyton and has done something never done in any ERA of football.

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    #1243286
    KoalaNui
    Participant

    Jameis Winston has back to back 10 TD games

     

    tog: “Why 10 TD? it’s so arbitrary!  Why not 9 or 11?!?!?”

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    #1243289
    GottaJaboo
    Blocked

    The era isn’t different. What a complete fallacious bunch of horseshit.

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    GoldsonAges on 2nd round pick, Safety, Justin Evans, out of Texas A&M - "coaching can’t fix this".

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