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    • GMACsBlankey

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      Post count: 357

      Been mulling over this idea today despite the fact that I am nearly 100% certain Lovie wouldn’t even consider it: What if, on certain nickel/dime or other passing situations, we slid Danny over to the WS spot, let Carter move back to SS and used David as a pass rusher a la Von Miller.I know he's not a pass rush expert but clearly he's arguably the best backfield linebacker in the league (run game) and when Schiano set him loose he had a historic year for linebackers with his turnovers and his sacks and tackles. To me, he's one of our best pass rushers and arguably better than anyone not named McCoy.The line-up would look like (David) (McDonald/Melton) (McCoy)(Danny) (Carter)and then whoever is in our clusterF of a secondary.Could this work, would this be something yall would like to see? I know no one does David's job better than David but Lansannah had like 20 tackles and a few splash plays when he filled in, so I think he's more than up to the task of playing the role in spot situations. David is a very good pass rusher and the fact that Lovie turned him into a zone playing ghost last year is one of his biggest coaching failures.I think this would assure we keep our best players on the field while allowing them to better use their array of talents.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 161

      I was kind of in to what you were saying until you said Lovie turned him into a ghost in our zone.. he had a better year a couple of years back but he was Awesome last year so i don’t see where you saw that. But if he can rush the passer at DE, I don’t think so, he has the speed but you’re talking about a Tackle blocking him straight up not off a blitz or a RB picking him up.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1507

      I was kind of in to what you were saying until you said Lovie turned him into a ghost in our zone.. he had a better year a couple of years back but he was Awesome last year so i don't see where you saw that. But if he can rush the passer at DE, I don't think so, he has the speed but you're talking about a Tackle blocking him straight up not off a blitz or a RB picking him up.

      By ghost, what I meant is that his role wasn’t asking him to do as much and despite his greatness, his numbers were down and his impact wasn’t as noticeable…. though I don’t fault his play but rather the lack of aggressive responsibilities.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 655

      In the presser about David’s contract, Lovie said David was his best pass-rushing LB and he hopes to use David more extensively this year.Perhaps that means give David more pass rushing assignments.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 500

      In the presser about David's contract, Lovie said David was his best pass-rushing LB and he hopes to use David more extensively this year.Perhaps that means give David more pass rushing assignments.

      Definitely noticed when Lovie said that too. Who knows, its possible that being forced to unleash David as a pass rusher may be the blessing in disguise that comes from having mostly scrubs at DE.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Idgaf what defense a team is using, if they have david, they are only hurting themselves if they do not occasionally use him at the los.Its just dumb not to.Imo, thats why lovie signed carter. Having foster back in coverage was obviously not going to work, so, it comes to no surprise that lovie, not only signed a guy who can cover and who has a little speed, but a guy who is also familiar with his system.Its almost a plug and play situation. A very good fit for this team and almost suggests that lovie will indeed use David's los skills more often.Then again, lovie's, and most t2 like systems, use quicker guys to get a hat on the ball and smother their victims. So maybe im reading too much into it?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 235

      I think that this is a tale of things to come OP.  maybe not the same personnel package as you mentioned because I think that's another reason why Lovie went and drafted Kwon and is also hedging his bets on stout DTs.  May not be a traditional t2 system, but in passing situations and with a little creativity (Pittsburgh/Baltimore) I think we could make up for a non traditional DE.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1419

      Agreed – I don’t care how he’s going, just send him, the dude is a great on the blitz

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1507

      Agreed - I don't care how he's going, just send him, the dude is a great on the blitz

      Yeh this is really my stance. Just astounding how we didn’t utilize one of the best pass rushing linebackers in the league at all last year.But I seem to remember the same happening with Brooks as well, so it could just be a system thing.I've always felt you fit your system to what you have as far as elite talent goes and not using Lavonte to wreak havoc in the backfield is just a waste.

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    • Anonymous

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      Post count: 1498

      I don’t think you line him up at DE, but I do think you send him on blitzes. For all the crap Schiano got, he was great at manufacturing a rush.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      With 4 DL like McCoy, McDonald, Melton, and McDaniel, we can occasionally play 3 of them on the line… rush David and Kwon then play Carter and Lansanah in coverage.Maybe Im dreaming but that brings alot more speed to our defense.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1110

      Lovie could learn how to best utilize David from Schiano.  Eighth rated defense per Football Outsiders, DVOA efficiency in 2013.  David’s numbers off the charts.

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    • bucbach234

      Participant
      Post count: 67

      With 4 DL like McCoy, McDonald, Melton, and McDaniel, we can occasionally play 3 of them on the line... rush David and Kwon then play Carter and Lansanah in coverage.Maybe Im dreaming but that brings alot more speed to our defense.

      Yeah makes me curious if Lovie would consider going to a 3-4 at times, if not transition to it over times. Utilize the abilities of the LBs. haven't the Tampa 2 always been used in a 4-3. But with more athletic LBs like David and Alexander, why not put the two of them in and alternate them in blitzes. Again Maybe Lovie is elvoving his  Tampa 2 scheme to fit the players he has.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4344

      With 4 DL like McCoy, McDonald, Melton, and McDaniel, we can occasionally play 3 of them on the line... rush David and Kwon then play Carter and Lansanah in coverage.Maybe Im dreaming but that brings alot more speed to our defense.

      That brings an absurd amount of speed to our defenseline up McCoy, Melton, and Smith on the DL with David blitzing along with kwon or lansanah and then have Carter and Kwon/Lansanah coverwould get hurt by a draw play if they come upfield too fast but if its a straight drop and the qb cant find his hot read.................yikes

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 655

      Last nite, watched an early season 2008 game with the Bucs in Chic.Lovie was the head coach of Chic.Lots of blitzing by Chic.Bucs QB (Greise) was under constant pressure, and the run game for the Bucs was close to nothing, just couldn't gain any yards.Greise set a Buc's passing attempt record and came close to the NFL record.Point is that when Lovie gets his defense established. there may be some blitzing as was the case in Chicago---more blitzing than was the case with Kiffen's Tampa-2.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1507

      After Von Miller’s playoff performance, and some of the spark LVD showed at the end of the year, I’m more convinced that trying to get him to 10 sacks should and could be a legitimate goal.

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    • williebrowntown

      Member
      Post count: 493

      Just remember how often he was in the backfield when Schiano was here he was the first LB  I think ever to have 5 sacks and 5 picks in the same season. We need more of that and remember Kwon can run and get back there also. This could be very exciting to watch

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    • rpratto

      Participant
      Post count: 347

      If Smith wants to try a 4-3 with a hybrid 3-4, then David could definitely fill that role.  David has the potential to be another Derrick Brooks.  He’s all over the place. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3027

      LVD has speed, quickness and agility. Those are the trademarks of a good pass rusher. I think blitzing him is better than lining him up at DE.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1507

      LVD has speed, quickness and agility. Those are the trademarks of a good pass rusher. I think blitzing him is better than lining him up at DE.

      I’d basically just use him like Denver uses Miller. I know LVD is smaller, but the way he bounces off and slips through and around blocks is similar.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2445

      I was kind of in to what you were saying until you said Lovie turned him into a ghost in our zone.. he had a better year a couple of years back but he was Awesome last year so i don't see where you saw that. But if he can rush the passer at DE, I don't think so, he has the speed but you're talking about a Tackle blocking him straight up not off a blitz or a RB picking him up.

      The second half of the year he was awesome. The first half of the season he was the most non-existent version of himself he's ever been since becoming a Buc.One thing is for sure, all bucs defensive players are going to be much better tacklers next season since theyre not going to be told that strip tackling is the number 1 philosophy. We lost so many extra yards during the last 2 years because players werent wrapping up and tacking the ball carriers to the ground at the first point of contact.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I didnt watch a whole lot of the panthers this season, i must admit. One game against tampa, i missed, but the other i did catch. So, I’ll begrudgingly re-watch some of their defensive tape later on for sure.However, from what i gather from news, and the two games of theirs i did watch, ron will systematically rush his LBers. He particularly used it in the superbowl to throw cam off. He didnt try to contain cam, he MADE him move despite that mobile fear.With that said, when i look back at tampas past season, i think that was a major element missing. Tampa had nothing for a consistant passrush AT the LOS, but for some odd reason, lovie didnt feel the need to make a change.Had lovie watched carolina, who runs a similar system (more of an attacking 4-3), he would have noticed that blitzing a LB (or two) randomly not only keeps them honest, but confuses the qb, makes the qb throw faster than he likes, and sometimes, it just pays huge sack/int dividends.By comparison, lovie was sitting in his little boat with a rod, reel, and worms to catch fish, ..while ron was using dynamite.Smith #2 had better take notice, because kwon and david could potentially be better than what carolina has produced at their LB core. And normally, thats a tough thing for a team to be able to say these days.Tampa can have that as well, IF they just stop the wussy BS defense. Attack. The nfl is full of pros who work on NOT making mistakes, and because of that, you almost HAVE to MAKE them make mistakes. Get them out of their element. You are one of the league leaders in penalties anyway, ...and you're playing a "passive" defense?Imo, this, and the corners being played too far off is exactly why tampa is picking 9th, and missing playoffs again. A total misuse of abilities.They literally could sign no one to the defensive side this offseason, and just re-work the system to fit the players correctly, and i'd be willing to bet it would still be massively improved.

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    • williebrowntown

      Member
      Post count: 493

      I didnt watch a whole lot of the panthers this season, i must admit. One game against tampa, i missed, but the other i did catch. So, I'll begrudgingly re-watch some of their defensive tape later on for sure.However, from what i gather from news, and the two games of theirs i did watch, ron will systematically rush his LBers. He particularly used it in the superbowl to throw cam off. He didnt try to contain cam, he MADE him move despite that mobile fear.With that said, when i look back at tampas past season, i think that was a major element missing. Tampa had nothing for a consistant passrush AT the LOS, but for some odd reason, lovie didnt feel the need to make a change.Had lovie watched carolina, who runs a similar system (more of an attacking 4-3), he would have noticed that blitzing a LB (or two) randomly not only keeps them honest, but confuses the qb, makes the qb throw faster than he likes, and sometimes, it just pays huge sack/int dividends.By comparison, lovie was sitting in his little boat with a rod, reel, and worms to catch fish, ..while ron was using dynamite.Smith #2 had better take notice, because kwon and david could potentially be better than what carolina has produced at their LB core. And normally, thats a tough thing for a team to be able to say these days.Tampa can have that as well, IF they just stop the wussy BS defense. Attack. The nfl is full of pros who work on NOT making mistakes, and because of that, you almost HAVE to MAKE them make mistakes. Get them out of their element. You are one of the league leaders in penalties anyway, ...and you're playing a "passive" defense?Imo, this, and the corners being played too far off is exactly why tampa is picking 9th, and missing playoffs again. A total misuse of abilities.They literally could sign no one to the defensive side this offseason, and just re-work the system to fit the players correctly, and i'd be willing to bet it would still be massively improved.

      It's seemed like at least 80% of the time they sent Lavonte or Kwon or both, they got home... I'm not sure on that figure I just pulled it out of the air it's just how it felt watching the games. The thing that pisses me off even more is more often than not Lovie would just walk both of them up in the A gap and have them go... that takes the element of surprise and deception away. You're basically tipping your hand as to where you're sending pressure from. It was sad how uncreative Lovie was and unwilling to just watch film of the successful defenses around the league and copy that at least... I'm excited for the 4-3 under just to have different looks and guys blitzing from different levels

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      1) Being a “pass rusher” is very different than being a successful “blitzer”.  Lavonte David IS NOT a pass rusher and cannot be one.  He’s too small and lacks pass rushing skills.  It's a completely different position and skill set.  Apples to oranges comparison.2) I have no idea how often Lavonte or Kwon applied pressure when called to blitz, but without statistics it's pure speculation.  If anyone has numbers on the percentages of Buccaneer blitzes (or even better Lavonte David's blitzes) I'd love to see them.Where Lavonte has success as a blitzer (which we very much saw under Schiano) is when he's untouched, comes on a more delayed blitz, and uses his speed and intelligence to get to the ballcarrier.  This often involves scraping overtop and uses his lateral speed to get in the backfield.

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    • williebrowntown

      Member
      Post count: 493

      1) Being a "pass rusher" is very different than being a successful "blitzer".  Lavonte David IS NOT a pass rusher and cannot be one.  He's too small and lacks pass rushing skills.  It's a completely different position and skill set.  Apples to oranges comparison.2) I have no idea how often Lavonte or Kwon applied pressure when called to blitz, but without statistics it's pure speculation.  If anyone has numbers on the percentages of Buccaneer blitzes (or even better Lavonte David's blitzes) I'd love to see them.Where Lavonte has success as a blitzer (which we very much saw under Schiano) is when he's untouched, comes on a more delayed blitz, and uses his speed and intelligence to get to the ballcarrier.  This often involves scraping overtop and uses his lateral speed to get in the backfield.

      I would like to see the numbers as well. As I said, when I was watching the game it seemed to me that it was a great deal of the time that they got pressure it could only be 60% but as you said it's all speculation. Of course Lavonte was most successful when he was untouched, he's an undersided, lightning quick LB. You design plays to free him up as Shiano did, walking him up to the A gap and expecting him to win a fight in a phone booth with a center or guard was ridiculous. I can bet we will see more elaborate and creative blitzes this year. Guys coming from the secondary,  stunts up front, freeing up the delayed guys, a more creative blitz for the corner than walking him up to the end of the line and letting him get killed by a tackle... I expect the 4-3 under itself to produce more pressure purly based on scheme alone.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      1) Being a "pass rusher" is very different than being a successful "blitzer".  Lavonte David IS NOT a pass rusher and cannot be one.  He's too small and lacks pass rushing skills.  It's a completely different position and skill set.  Apples to oranges comparison.2) I have no idea how often Lavonte or Kwon applied pressure when called to blitz, but without statistics it's pure speculation.  If anyone has numbers on the percentages of Buccaneer blitzes (or even better Lavonte David's blitzes) I'd love to see them.Where Lavonte has success as a blitzer (which we very much saw under Schiano) is when he's untouched, comes on a more delayed blitz, and uses his speed and intelligence to get to the ballcarrier.  This often involves scraping overtop and uses his lateral speed to get in the backfield.

      I would like to see the numbers as well. As I said, when I was watching the game it seemed to me that it was a great deal of the time that they got pressure it could only be 60% but as you said it's all speculation. Of course Lavonte was most successful when he was untouched, he's an undersided, lightning quick LB. You design plays to free him up as Shiano did, walking him up to the A gap and expecting him to win a fight in a phone booth with a center or guard was ridiculous. I can bet we will see more elaborate and creative blitzes this year. Guys coming from the secondary,  stunts up front, freeing up the delayed guys, a more creative blitz for the corner than walking him up to the end of the line and letting him get killed by a tackle... I expect the 4-3 under itself to produce more pressure purly based on scheme alone.

      Agree.

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