Why doesn't the media call Arians out?

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  • #1233614
    gregauman
    Participant

    Just want to respond to some of this here. I asked Arians directly about the challenge. His response in explaining that he did it on purpose is because I asked him about it. He talked about precedent for a coach challenging when they couldn’t, and wrote about how it basically cost the Bucs a victory in 2014 when Marvin Lewis did it against the Bucs. He said it could have cost his team, explained why he did it.

    This is all accountability. My job isn’t to say “That was stupid.” It’s to ask why he did it, point out the potential consequences and write about the larger issues of officiating and coaches’ widespread frustration with the current replay system, especially as it relates to pass interference.

    If we were in Arians’ pocket, why would we ask about it at all? If we were in Licht’s pocket, why would we spend weeks writing about the potential of cutting Perriman to get a pick, so the public is aware of the decision that’s being made, right or wrong?

    I get that fans get frustrated, that they disagree with coaching decisions and personnel decisions. We write a ton about things that go wrong, risks that aren’t taken, why picks and signings and trades don’t work out. We ask coaches about it, we ask players about it. We’re there every day, face to face, asking them about wins and losses and why.

    If you guys have any problems with me, you’re welcome to email me at [email protected], hit me up on Twitter at @gregauman, or write in the comments in any of our stories on the site.

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    #1233618
    The Anti-Java
    Participant

    @GREGAUMAN
    Good stuff, thanks for posting.

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    #1233625
    CyberDilemma
    Participant

    I always felt of all the local media Stephen Holder most closely stuck to the facts and didn’t have any personal agenda or slant. It might have been lacking in sensationalism but I always felt I was getting info the levitated more towards the truth. I  also believe Greg Auman filled that same void when Holder moved to an extent.

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    #1233636
    Hockey Duckie
    Participant

    A small example here is the difference between SR/MC and Trevor Sikkema. Sikkema isn’t always right (like anyone) but he attempts to both educate the audience and not accept the Buc’s stance unequivocally. I mean he’s the first member of PR I’ve heard to seriously suggest Licht must take the blame for this roster.

    Sikkema is a different beat to SR and MC of Pewter Report.  Sikkema has another gig called “thedraftnetwork”, TDN.  So Sikkema has that to fall back upon.  Yet Sikkema was writing for several other publications before becoming a permanent writer for PR.  Sikkema’s forte was breaking plays down and explaining it.  That’s how he differentiates himself from SR and MC, which is also why he’s part of TDN.

    Now, Sikkema gets to fly off the cuff a bit and that could be by design.  SR and MC get to have their hands clean to continue to have access and tell the Bucs’ org that they’ll try to rein in Sikkema (which is probably political show).  But Sikkema doesn’t go all out either as he knows the game.

    I remember Pewtercast’s Ren often would be upset about asking the tough questions when he was a fan.  Yet, after a couple of seasons of being part of the media crew, he’s seen the flip side and has tamped down the eagerness to being too obviously obnoxious.  You can get your question answered, but you have to be far more political going about it.  So know who you are interviewing and you’ll get better responses.  Ren picked up how to ask Koetter a question to get an answer.  Ask Koetter incorrectly and you’ll be burned.

    Now, I recall that Koetter used to do a radio call-in show with Casey.  Koetter has a completely different demeanor with fans b/c fans don’t have an agenda to push.  Fans just want to be educated.

    I dunno if Arians does that.  If so, then you can ask him there.  You might be screened if your query is eligible to be taken on air.

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    #1233915
    tog
    Participant

    Appreciate @gregauman responding (and in a lot of detail). Kudos.

    My issue is less the questions in press conferences, in large part because coaches are great at giving non-answer answers or just avoiding some reporters. Greg knows this better than me. Of course, there are a lot of stupid questions “How do you feel about losing?” is a favorite of mine.

    I also understand, at least intellectually if not experientially, the game that needs to be played with the organization. It’s been said a few times by myself and others that the point is not to call Arians stupid. It’s not to be confrontational (although there is occasionally a place for that).

    The issue, as I see it and it seems others do as well, is that local reporters have gotten too cozy with the regime and struggle to think critically about the team and its place in the NFL. Keep in mind, this is an organisatipon that has not won a playoff game since 2002. They haven’t been to the playoffs since 2007. It’s ugly. And I get that every local reporter knows this, but when I read them I don’t think they get it.

    A perfect example is Licht who has been repeatedly praised for his talent acquisition. A week or two ago Mark Cook wrote he didn’t think Licht was the issue. Or you have SR praising Licht drafts (as he did with Dominik) because of the number of rookies that are projected to start. A high number of rookie starting means you have a bad team. That’s not an opinion, that’s reality.

    You have simple football mistakes replete through articles. I’m not talking about opinions on whether you like X player. I ‘m talking about facts we can evaluate as objectively as anything in football. Yes, finally beat reporters have caught on to the comp picks issues. But Licht has wasted a number of opportunities at comp picks since he arrived.

    The quality of football reporting, largely thanks to the prevalence of analytics, has gone up substantially. Greg writes for the Athletic which does a great job on this front. I subscribe (and have talked with Greg (unknown to him) on that platform.

    Yet given this improvement in football coverage, we have reporters who largely act as mouthpieces for the regime. Yes, there’s very minor criticism about not cutting Perriman. And when the coach needs to go, there will be pieces critciising him.

    But the Bucs have an organisation, a front office, a coaching staff, and players that haven’t been relevant in over a decade. And reporters haven’t engaged one whit with that. Remember how positive all the offseason coverage was? How fast the Bucs would turn around? The only people I saw evaluating the Bucs rationally were (a) some posters on this board (b) analytics Twitter and (c) some national reporters.

    Do you agree? Disagree?

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    #1233918
    tog
    Participant

    Again, please tell me if I’m wrong here or missing the boat. But we can look at PR’s front page right now (ignoring injury reports).

    1. Comparing Evans to a Hall of Famer
    2. Secondary is getting better
    3. David is nominated for an award
    4. Bucs players react to VH3’s release
    5. Dean top graded DB
    6. PR Roundtable: who deserve to be Pro Bowlers?
    7. Cover 3: DVOA
    8. Why VH3 was released
    9. Licht Gives Reason for VH3 release

    Outside Trevor’s piece, every one of those is positive towards the organisation.

    The VH3 release is the perfect example. You have a terrible draft pick that the organisation held onto too long (and then made the elder statesman?). Big mistake by Licht and Arians.

    Yet the coverage is just repeating exactly the team’s stance. IT EVEN PRAISES THE TEAM: “With the team preaching accountability, it was time for the coaches and the front office to hold him accountable.”. In fact, the whole “Licht gives reason to Hargreaves Release” is just a copy/paste of Licht not saying anything. It doesn’t even give a reason, it just says “we decided to make a change, wish him the best”.

    I see all this and I see reporters who are in the pocket of the Buccaneers. No, the Bucs aren’t literally handing over paychecks. But with this kind of “reporting” they may as well be.

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    #1233985
    VirgilCaine
    Participant

    @tog

    I think you might be confusing media roles:

    “ . In fact, the whole “Licht gives reason to Hargreaves Release” is just a copy/paste of Licht not saying anything. It doesn’t even give a reason, it just says “we decided to make a change, wish him the best”

    You may have a point with PR, but Greg A really addressed this when he said above (paraphrasing) my job isn’t to say “that was dumb,” it’s just to ask the question and report the answer. You seem to be looking for analysis and critique (judgment about the answer). That would be a columnist or opinion writer, not a reporter.

    For whatever it’s worth.

    Glad to see Greg chime in. One of the most accessible reporters around. Very willing to engage and answer questions.

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    #1233994
    Roy
    Participant

    When I responded to this topic I was specifically talking about Pewter Report and how they may keep information under their hat or not pursue a topic with one of their inside sources.

    We can get the facts anywhere, the reporting of the events and quotes from the press conferences.  Pewter Report is not a news channel.  We read PR because we want to get more in depth information, inside scoop and “hard hitting” commentary that you wouldn’t get from the press conference or local news interview.  If PR can’t do that then they aren’t doing their job.   That’s their whole reason for existing.

    Sometimes I want more from PR.  For example the Gerald McCoy saga.  I’m not saying they need to join in with some fans who’s complaints never end.  But  I suspect there was more going on behind the scenes than was being reported.   PR failed to get behind the scenes with that story, or worse they did have more information and chose not to pass it along.     I realize you have to keep your sources happy, but you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

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    #1234001
    VirgilCaine
    Participant

    Yep^^^

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    #1234022
    DonkeyHunter
    Participant

    We read PR because we want to get more in depth information, inside scoop and “hard hitting” commentary that you wouldn’t get from the press conference or local news interview.

    Then, you must not have been here very long; because you get none of that.

    I won’t speak for others. But, the reason that “I” come here is for the football insight and content from the message board community.

    And, there are a handful of posters who have more high quality material than ANYTHING you see posted by the PR staff. Guys like @nobody and @tog, and a handful of others put out stuff daily, far more insightful than anything else you’ll read on this site.

    You want analytics?

    Read the posters on RB.

    You want accurate game film breakdown?

    Read the posters on RB.

    You want insightful player evaluations, pre-draft discussions and grading, mocks, etc.

    Read the posters on RB.

    You want updates and breaking stories?

    Read the posters on RB

    You want softballs, fluff pieces, limited football acumen, Jason Licht’s campaign manager, and kumbaya sing alongs?

    Read Fab 5 or whatever it’s called.

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    #1234054
    BucFanFromATL
    Participant

    One could argue that Tampa Bay’s overall media companies are weak when talking about economies of scale. When you’re talking about the economics of journalism… you understand why some media markets are rough and tumble like New York, L.A., Dallas, Philly, and Even Atlanta… The Media corporations and organizations have a lot more power, money, political influence, and clout. They aren’t afraid to piss people off in individual organizations because the media organizations are baked into the fabric of the city… They have the numbers (subscribers to their newspaper/print/online website/publications, viewership for their television outlets – ratings, and the listeners to their radio outlets – ratings and podcasts) In larger markets these media companies are largely independent of the organizations they report on… Whether that is the local sports team… or a local business or hell even the elected officials.

    Meaning they can call out and be critical of who they want and it is usually the individuals, organizations, businesses, politicians, and sports teams kowtowing to the media organization for favorable coverage… versus the other way around.

    You see… PewterReport is subservient to the Buccaneers by default because their whole business model is built on covering the Buccaneers… if the Buccaneers were to revoke their media credentials an access to the team, their whole business would essentially go up in smoke. While a journalistic outlet like the New York Times, or Washington Post, or Atlanta Journal Constitution etc are going to exist independently of the Giants, Redskins, or Falcons respectively.

    You see this with national media outlets like Fox Sports or ESPN… Jenna Laine is going to have the leeway to be far more critical of the Buccaneers as an organization than any of the local journalist beholden to local companies because ESPN is owned and operated by Disney and is going to exist with or without access to the Buccaneers media room. Now that also is a two way street due to the contract ESPN has with the NFL… so ESPN analyst/journalist/Opinion Writers also can’t be overly critical of Roger Goodell and the NFL as a whole or they will face repercussions like when Bill Simmons was fired for calling Goodell a Liar on his podcast and challenged ESPN to admonish him for it… etc

    It’s all about money and politics and leverage at the end of the day… Pewter Report has no leverage against the Buccaneers organization and they are reliant on their media credentials and insider access. THAT is why you won’t ever see overly critical articles of the Buccaneers organization. They are not in the pockets of the Buccaneers… but their pockets are reliant on the Buccaneers organization.

    With that being said… I come here for the message board. All that other stuff is just business.

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    #1234085
    Roy
    Participant

    I would like to see a Michael Clayton type of guy on this site.  Former Buccaneer who does guest commentary on pre and post game WDAE coverage.  He is a bit loud and annoying, but he knows what he’s talking about and he’ll tell it like it is.

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    #1234119
    VirgilCaine
    Participant

    “He is a bit loud and annoying” — funniest part of his post game with TKraz is when Clayton tries to sell something that even Clayton doesn’t by and you can picture Tkraz laughing.

    Met Clayton one time. Of all places, a gas station in the middle of nowhere Florida. Couldn’t have been nicer and less like his on air persona. Big Super Bowl ring on.

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    #1234872
    tog
    Participant

    It’s all about money and politics and leverage at the end of the day… Pewter Report has no leverage against the Buccaneers organization and they are reliant on their media credentials and insider access. THAT is why you won’t ever see overly critical articles of the Buccaneers organization. They are not in the pockets of the Buccaneers… but their pockets are reliant on the Buccaneers organization.

    This is what I meant by “in the pocket”. Not that they were literally being paid off.

    But I do think you’re slightly exaggerating the risk to reporters like PR. The Bucs aren’t going to just cut off their credentials. If JoeBucsFan can get credentials, anyone can.

    Yes, there is an access risk. But, and this is a problem for real reporters too, access is only valuable if you gets you useful information. You could do a great job reporting on the Bucs and never attend a press conference (nvm that you could watch it online anyways).

    If all “access” gets you is repeating the company line, then what’s the point?

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    #1235020
    JameisStinkston
    Participant

    The NFL has passed this old terdlet by. 8 running plays. What a complete moron.

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