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    • Garv

      Participant
      Post count: 517

      Other than the much ballyhooed “continuity” argument (even though constantly losing is NOT the kind of continuity we had in mind) why in the world should fans want this disaster to continue?Out of curiosity I'd like to hear from fans who truly still believe this man is the guy to lead our Buccaneers back to Super Bowl contention. His preparation? His enthusiasm? His calm demeanor? His leadership? Is it his mastery of the Tampa 2? His press conference savvy? Go ahead. Convince me St. Lovie is the man we want to "clean up" this mess of his own doing.Thanks in advance!

      Please wait…

      “We’re all here because we’re not all there.”
      as always, GO BUCS!!!

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 232

      who you going to hire to replace him?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 873

      who you going to hire to replace him?

      You roll with Dirk for the rest of the season and see what he can do.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      who you going to hire to replace him?

      You roll with Dirk for the rest of the season and see what he can do.

      Yes, that. But again, what are the positives for NOT firing him immediately.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1784

      Was hoping nobody would respond. Not because it’s a bad idea for a thread but because nobody has a case to keep the guy as HC.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      who you going to hire to replace him?

      You roll with Dirk for the rest of the season and see what he can do.

      Yes, that. But again, what are the positives for NOT firing him immediately.

      My biggest concern would be how it effects the development of Winston. Obviously your plan keeps DK, but does moving him to HC affect the level of attention he can devote to the most important player on the roster?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1198

      I’d considerJosh McDanielsGreg RomanAdam GaseNick SabanDavid ShawAs replacements if Lovie is gone afte this year. But I doubt he's fired in season

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4140

      I’m not one of those fans and don’t find it worthwhile to convince anyone to change their mind.  Useless exercise, especially around here.So - not falling on either side of the issue - some thoughts.In addition to all the other problems and perception issues this team has right now, after this first game of the 2015 season?  Add another?It's premature for the 2015 season - that train already left the station.It's reactionary after 1 loss in 2015.  We'll know who this team is by mid-season.    Strap up, it's going to be a long season.  I think we all know/knew that - right? (rhetorical)

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      That's simply because there are a lot of idiots here. They THRIVE on the negative. Look, listening and typing back and forth with a crowd of whining LOSERS during a game may be some fans cup of tea but I still believe it's pathetic. Some of these crying jackwagons actually believe they know what they're typing about. I do admit it's funny at times but most of the time it's the typical gibberish expected from impatient brats who didn't get their way in the April draft.The fans actually at the game? Well, they ARE actual fans and for the most part act like it.

      My God some of you losers........ Maybe you actually believe your whining and crying will amount to something more than wet tissues but I assure you it will not.I've been through much worse than this and the fact remains, the Buccaneers are building for the future.The days of plugging in washed up veterans in the false hope of getting to or just above .500 are OVER.Mankins was a mistake. McCown was a mistake. Revis, though not washed but but only still hurt when he was here was a bad mistake. The way to build and stay good, to be competitive year after year is through the draft. That's how you get a franchise QB. The Buccaneers are a young team on the rise but it is going to take some time. YES, this team has been AWFUL over the past 6 years, FAR below .500 in fact. But let's look at the present. We have a ROOKIE QB and very young players including rookies on the OL AND the defense. The older players on their way down will be replaced when they can be effectively. BUT IT TAKES TIME! This is the start of something good and a BAD preseason game does not change that fact for anyone but the most STUPID of "fans." Don't like that opinion? Good. It was meant for those who do not.One more thing that the whiners and complainers, the chicken littles might actually like to read......IF the Buccaneers continue to lose and lose badly at home Lovie Smith will not be here a year from now. And IF that happens I have no problem with it. Of course I hope and trust that will not happen. Losing at home games REALLY sucks. Regular season games that count. There is a difference you know.

      Some of these losers will whine till the water runs dry, it does not matter. To think that any fan could be stone stupid enough to believe that a 2-14 team could be changed overnight? LOL The point IS, as those of us with something between the ears probably know, this is the START and not the finished product. As someone who makes sense pointed out, there is only ONE DRAFT a YEAR! But we had what looks to be a HELL of a good draft last April and if those players and other young players can continue to develop this organization has a chance to be good for a long time. THAT is the goal. The goal is NOT to please a bunch of whining IDIOTS on a message in the third PRESEASON game.As Victor Newman would say........ You got that?

      Well, idiots and losers will be idiots and losers. Yes, I root for the Buccaneers and have done so for many years. Inferior "fans" such as yourself don't because we lost a preseason game. Or because the turnaround is not complete after three preseason games after a 2-14 season? Don't need you don't care to know you and won't see you at any games. Now THAT'S something to CRY about.....LOL

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 307

      https://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php/topic,1326665.0.html

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 873

      who you going to hire to replace him?

      You roll with Dirk for the rest of the season and see what he can do.

      Yes, that. But again, what are the positives for NOT firing him immediately.

      He'll get us another top 5 pick next year. Seriously though, Lovie will not take this team to the promise land. I'm tired of hearing the "experts" talk about how good Lovie's defenses used to be. It hasn't been good for a while now and he won't change. Lesile Fraizer is not the answer either, he got fired in Minny for a reason.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      There is no reason, other than getting the first pick again.Continuity is only good, if you're good. Keeping lovie would just be a continuation of time wasting bad.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1110

      Since I would have kept Schiano and not hired Lovie in the first place, I would have fired Lovie after last season’s “two and whatever”.  Garv, can’t give you any reason to not fire him now.  Hand the reigns to Koetter for 15 games and then decide on new GM and new HC…if not retain Koetter.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      That's simply because there are a lot of idiots here. They THRIVE on the negative. Look, listening and typing back and forth with a crowd of whining LOSERS during a game may be some fans cup of tea but I still believe it's pathetic. Some of these crying jackwagons actually believe they know what they're typing about. I do admit it's funny at times but most of the time it's the typical gibberish expected from impatient brats who didn't get their way in the April draft.The fans actually at the game? Well, they ARE actual fans and for the most part act like it.

      My God some of you losers........ Maybe you actually believe your whining and crying will amount to something more than wet tissues but I assure you it will not.I've been through much worse than this and the fact remains, the Buccaneers are building for the future.The days of plugging in washed up veterans in the false hope of getting to or just above .500 are OVER.Mankins was a mistake. McCown was a mistake. Revis, though not washed but but only still hurt when he was here was a bad mistake. The way to build and stay good, to be competitive year after year is through the draft. That's how you get a franchise QB. The Buccaneers are a young team on the rise but it is going to take some time. YES, this team has been AWFUL over the past 6 years, FAR below .500 in fact. But let's look at the present. We have a ROOKIE QB and very young players including rookies on the OL AND the defense. The older players on their way down will be replaced when they can be effectively. BUT IT TAKES TIME! This is the start of something good and a BAD preseason game does not change that fact for anyone but the most STUPID of "fans." Don't like that opinion? Good. It was meant for those who do not.One more thing that the whiners and complainers, the chicken littles might actually like to read......IF the Buccaneers continue to lose and lose badly at home Lovie Smith will not be here a year from now. And IF that happens I have no problem with it. Of course I hope and trust that will not happen. Losing at home games REALLY sucks. Regular season games that count. There is a difference you know.

      Some of these losers will whine till the water runs dry, it does not matter. To think that any fan could be stone stupid enough to believe that a 2-14 team could be changed overnight? LOL The point IS, as those of us with something between the ears probably know, this is the START and not the finished product. As someone who makes sense pointed out, there is only ONE DRAFT a YEAR! But we had what looks to be a HELL of a good draft last April and if those players and other young players can continue to develop this organization has a chance to be good for a long time. THAT is the goal. The goal is NOT to please a bunch of whining IDIOTS on a message in the third PRESEASON game.As Victor Newman would say........ You got that?

      Well, idiots and losers will be idiots and losers. Yes, I root for the Buccaneers and have done so for many years. Inferior "fans" such as yourself don't because we lost a preseason game. Or because the turnaround is not complete after three preseason games after a 2-14 season? Don't need you don't care to know you and won't see you at any games. Now THAT'S something to CRY about.....LOL

      I remember this...Garv might be bi-polar(j/k).I'd like someone to show the negative nellies why they think the game hasn't passed Lovie by though...anyone up to the task?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      That's simply because there are a lot of idiots here. They THRIVE on the negative. Look, listening and typing back and forth with a crowd of whining LOSERS during a game may be some fans cup of tea but I still believe it's pathetic. Some of these crying jackwagons actually believe they know what they're typing about. I do admit it's funny at times but most of the time it's the typical gibberish expected from impatient brats who didn't get their way in the April draft.The fans actually at the game? Well, they ARE actual fans and for the most part act like it.

      My God some of you losers........ Maybe you actually believe your whining and crying will amount to something more than wet tissues but I assure you it will not.I've been through much worse than this and the fact remains, the Buccaneers are building for the future.The days of plugging in washed up veterans in the false hope of getting to or just above .500 are OVER.Mankins was a mistake. McCown was a mistake. Revis, though not washed but but only still hurt when he was here was a bad mistake. The way to build and stay good, to be competitive year after year is through the draft. That's how you get a franchise QB. The Buccaneers are a young team on the rise but it is going to take some time. YES, this team has been AWFUL over the past 6 years, FAR below .500 in fact. But let's look at the present. We have a ROOKIE QB and very young players including rookies on the OL AND the defense. The older players on their way down will be replaced when they can be effectively. BUT IT TAKES TIME! This is the start of something good and a BAD preseason game does not change that fact for anyone but the most STUPID of "fans." Don't like that opinion? Good. It was meant for those who do not.One more thing that the whiners and complainers, the chicken littles might actually like to read......IF the Buccaneers continue to lose and lose badly at home Lovie Smith will not be here a year from now. And IF that happens I have no problem with it. Of course I hope and trust that will not happen. Losing at home games REALLY sucks. Regular season games that count. There is a difference you know.

      Some of these losers will whine till the water runs dry, it does not matter. To think that any fan could be stone stupid enough to believe that a 2-14 team could be changed overnight? LOL The point IS, as those of us with something between the ears probably know, this is the START and not the finished product. As someone who makes sense pointed out, there is only ONE DRAFT a YEAR! But we had what looks to be a HELL of a good draft last April and if those players and other young players can continue to develop this organization has a chance to be good for a long time. THAT is the goal. The goal is NOT to please a bunch of whining IDIOTS on a message in the third PRESEASON game.As Victor Newman would say........ You got that?

      Well, idiots and losers will be idiots and losers. Yes, I root for the Buccaneers and have done so for many years. Inferior "fans" such as yourself don't because we lost a preseason game. Or because the turnaround is not complete after three preseason games after a 2-14 season? Don't need you don't care to know you and won't see you at any games. Now THAT'S something to CRY about.....LOL

      I remember this...Garv might be bi-polar(j/k).I'd like someone to show the negative nellies why they think the game hasn't passed Lovie by though...anyone up to the task?

      All I'm asking..... why should St. Lovie be allowed to stay on? As for others pointing out my somewhat acidic optimism posted in the past? Well, it's true and I was mistaken. It's obvious message board posters, even garbage pail "experts" seem to know more about today's game than St. Lovie.SEEM to. That's what happens when a team looks like it did yesterday coming of a 2-14 season.Sooooooo, how does keeping St. Lovie help? Where is his field of expertise? WHY should remain here another day?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      because it does no good to fire him.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      because it does no good to fire him.

      But it is good to KEEP him because? Come on. His positives. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 232

      because it does no good to fire him.

      But it is good to KEEP him because? Come on. His positives.

      in the spirit of positivity…as long as he's here you're pretty much guaranteed the no.1 draft pick and first waiver claim every year

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    • ruodrik

      Participant
      Post count: 285

      I also would have kept Schiano, however firing Lovie now is pointless.  The team is so undisciplined it hurts.  It is one thing not to execute, it is another to appear lost, scared, and befuddled.  Unenforced penalties are on coaching and the Bucs have to be one of the worst teams in the NFL under his term in that category.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      I also would have kept Schiano, however firing Lovie now is pointless.  The team is so undisciplined it hurts.  It is one thing not to execute, it is another to appear lost, scared, and befuddled.  Unenforced penalties are on coaching and the Bucs have to be one of the worst teams in the NFL under his term in that category.

      See James, I read your post and see reasons TO fire St. Lovie. Damn good reasons I might add. But why KEEP him? Are you typing it's being pointless to fire him is a positive? I don't think I have seen or heard one good reason to keep him. Just the continuity thing and the hands in the air why bother deal.I want a HC to feel GOOD about, that I'm confident will make this Buccaneer team a winner again. Because he's a leader, proficient at one side of the ball at least. That prepares his team to look like they've practiced and care about the game. I want things I'm NOT getting from St. Lovie.So what ARE we getting we want to keep? Maybe that's a better way of asking the question?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      because it does no good to fire him.

      But it is good to KEEP him because? Come on. His positives.

      why?  everyone on this board is already sold.  reasons dont matter, just that W or L, right?the reasons to keep him start with the the fact you just cant start over midseason.  you gonna install a brand new defense?  you gonna change all the calls on defense?  on offense,  you gonna promote koetter after that showing? 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      because it does no good to fire him.

      But it is good to KEEP him because? Come on. His positives.

      why?  everyone on this board is already sold.  reasons dont matter, just that W or L, right?the reasons to keep him start with the the fact you just cant start over midseason.  you gonna install a brand new defense?  you gonna change all the calls on defense?  on offense,  you gonna promote koetter after that showing?

      So just what I continue to be fed. St. Lovie stays because we're stuck with him. THAT'S the positive. Oh well, long time Buccaneer fans are used to it I suppose. Throw up the hands, sigh, and watch the Bucs be the Bucs.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 975

      Lovie took a bad competitive team and made it an bad uncompetitive team. He then took his own bad uncompetitive team and made it even worse. Unless something really drastic happens next week I don’t want to see what we turn out like next year with Lovie at the helm.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      because it does no good to fire him.

      But it is good to KEEP him because? Come on. His positives.

      why?  everyone on this board is already sold.  reasons dont matter, just that W or L, right?the reasons to keep him start with the the fact you just cant start over midseason.  you gonna install a brand new defense?  you gonna change all the calls on defense?  on offense,  you gonna promote koetter after that showing?

      So just what I continue to be fed. St. Lovie stays because we're stuck with him. THAT'S the positive. Oh well, long time Buccaneer fans are used to it I suppose. Throw up the hands, sigh, and watch the Bucs be the Bucs.

      I mentioned before about possible issues with developing Winston, but here's another thought.What if having an interim guy distorts the choices going forward? Remember 1991, when we handed over the keys to the 1990 interim coach? I do, and it left scars.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8096

      Read lips?https://vine.co/v/eFIlaiWOY0a

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      because it does no good to fire him.

      But it is good to KEEP him because? Come on. His positives.

      why?  everyone on this board is already sold.  reasons dont matter, just that W or L, right?the reasons to keep him start with the the fact you just cant start over midseason.  you gonna install a brand new defense?  you gonna change all the calls on defense?  on offense,  you gonna promote koetter after that showing?

      So just what I continue to be fed. St. Lovie stays because we're stuck with him. THAT'S the positive. Oh well, long time Buccaneer fans are used to it I suppose. Throw up the hands, sigh, and watch the Bucs be the Bucs.

      I mentioned before about possible issues with developing Winston, but here's another thought.What if having an interim guy distorts the choices going forward? Remember 1991, when we handed over the keys to the 1990 interim coach? I do, and it left scars.

      Is the question what if we make another horrible coaching hire?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      who you going to hire to replace him?

      I'm pretty sure that I could coach them to 2-15.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 583

      I have no confidence in Lovie, the GM, the QB, and the ownership.  All four are equally putrid.  Firing one without the other 3 won’t help much.    If we fire Lovie, we still have the same GM, QB, and ownership?  So really what has changed?  The QB really works for Dirk now anyhow?  We'd have the same GM that thought it was a good idea to draft Winston over MM or the trade down from Philly.  And the same ownership that thought to hire Schiano as HC?  I have no problem firing Lovie even though I was in his camp.  But without the other 3 going I don't see much improvement. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9128

      I have no problem firing Lovie even though I was in his camp. 

      So, you thought Lovie was a great hire and you're claiming our QB is garbage. Hmmm....

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      because it does no good to fire him.

      But it is good to KEEP him because? Come on. His positives.

      why?  everyone on this board is already sold.  reasons dont matter, just that W or L, right?the reasons to keep him start with the the fact you just cant start over midseason.  you gonna install a brand new defense?  you gonna change all the calls on defense?  on offense,  you gonna promote koetter after that showing?

      So just what I continue to be fed. St. Lovie stays because we're stuck with him. THAT'S the positive. Oh well, long time Buccaneer fans are used to it I suppose. Throw up the hands, sigh, and watch the Bucs be the Bucs.

      I mentioned before about possible issues with developing Winston, but here's another thought.What if having an interim guy distorts the choices going forward? Remember 1991, when we handed over the keys to the 1990 interim coach? I do, and it left scars.

      Is the question what if we make another horrible coaching hire?

      Sort of - a little more nuanced (and I don't know the answer to this) - does hiring an interim guy who has any kind of success make us more likely to foreclose a wider search for a HC. Let's say Frazier takes over (more likely I think) and we win 6 games with him. Does that make the Glazers more likely to give him the reigns? In other words, are we better served over the long haul by letting Lovie finish out 2015, cleaning house, and taking a fresh look at a wider range of candidates?

      Please wait…

    • c.greene55

      Participant
      Post count: 41

      There’s really no point in firing him now, at least give him a chance to turn it around first.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      There's really no point in firing him now, at least give him a chance to turn it around first.

      Has he not HAD a chance to turn it around after Coach Schiano's 4-14 season in 2013? It's 2015 and we STILL have not seen a single win at home from St. Lovie, not one. Where are the signs, however small, that this team is even close to turning around? Are the offense, defense or special teams better or worse? Is the arrow going up or down? Good arguments remain possibly getting a better HC next offseason after sacrificing yet another year and...... was there another one? THAT is all anyone can come up with? Not bashing posters and fans, it's just true. St. Lovie leaves nobody thinking he's EVER going to be the answer here and once again we are all paying the price for a Glazer screw up.

      Please wait…

    • ruodrik

      Participant
      Post count: 285

      I also would have kept Schiano, however firing Lovie now is pointless.  The team is so undisciplined it hurts.  It is one thing not to execute, it is another to appear lost, scared, and befuddled.  Unenforced penalties are on coaching and the Bucs have to be one of the worst teams in the NFL under his term in that category.

      See James, I read your post and see reasons TO fire St. Lovie. Damn good reasons I might add. But why KEEP him? Are you typing it's being pointless to fire him is a positive? I don't think I have seen or heard one good reason to keep him. Just the continuity thing and the hands in the air why bother deal.I want a HC to feel GOOD about, that I'm confident will make this Buccaneer team a winner again. Because he's a leader, proficient at one side of the ball at least. That prepares his team to look like they've practiced and care about the game. I want things I'm NOT getting from St. Lovie.So what ARE we getting we want to keep? Maybe that's a better way of asking the question?

      Agreed those are definite reasons to move on, but I think you make those types of decisions at the end of the year not after game 1.  I think they made good moves this year regarding personell and coaching decisions, but that wont pay dividends for a couple years down the line.  I don't think firing a coach mid season helps any.  The preparation level of this team however is astonishingly bad on the small details and fundamentals and cannot be ignored. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      because it does no good to fire him.

      But it is good to KEEP him because? Come on. His positives.

      why?  everyone on this board is already sold.  reasons dont matter, just that W or L, right?the reasons to keep him start with the the fact you just cant start over midseason.  you gonna install a brand new defense?  you gonna change all the calls on defense?  on offense,  you gonna promote koetter after that showing?

      So just what I continue to be fed. St. Lovie stays because we're stuck with him. THAT'S the positive. Oh well, long time Buccaneer fans are used to it I suppose. Throw up the hands, sigh, and watch the Bucs be the Bucs.

      I mentioned before about possible issues with developing Winston, but here's another thought.What if having an interim guy distorts the choices going forward? Remember 1991, when we handed over the keys to the 1990 interim coach? I do, and it left scars.

      Is the question what if we make another horrible coaching hire?

      Sort of - a little more nuanced (and I don't know the answer to this) - does hiring an interim guy who has any kind of success make us more likely to foreclose a wider search for a HC. Let's say Frazier takes over (more likely I think) and we win 6 games with him. Does that make the Glazers more likely to give him the reigns? In other words, are we better served over the long haul by letting Lovie finish out 2015, cleaning house, and taking a fresh look at a wider range of candidates?

      My thought is you never reward failure out of fear of more failure.  Whatever it is we are discussing.  Lovie Smith has given absolutely no reason to keep him as head coach and primary football decision maker for another day.For every potential negative, I would point to a dozen potential positives.  If the interim wins games, the roster doesn't look bereft of talent from the outside.  At which point the interim probably deserves to be looked at seriously.  Along with a broad range of other candidates.  To be evaluated by someone in a GM or Pres of football operations role established before we hire a permanent head coach this time.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 690

      There's really no point in firing him now, at least give him a chance to turn it around first.

      Has he not HAD a chance to turn it around after Coach Schiano's 4-14 season in 2013? It's 2015 and we STILL have not seen a single win at home from St. Lovie, not one. Where are the signs, however small, that this team is even close to turning around? Are the offense, defense or special teams better or worse? Is the arrow going up or down? Good arguments remain possibly getting a better HC next offseason after sacrificing yet another year and...... was there another one? THAT is all anyone can come up with? Not bashing posters and fans, it's just true. St. Lovie leaves nobody thinking he's EVER going to be the answer here and once again we are all paying the price for a Glazer screw up.

      Garv,I hear you - but if we fire him now, we are throwing the towel in on the season. Period. Yes, we looked like we were headed for the number one overall again yesterday - but in reality a blowout loss and a loss at the last second count the exact same.  If we are firing Lovie this season, we have to at least wait until we are officially eliminated from playoff contention. Firing him now automatically eliminates us, unfortunately. There's also the idea that if we are going to be this bad under Lovie, then we are already in, might as well let him take us to the number one overall again. That at least gets us Bosa - Lovie getting us Jameis and Bosa in back-to-back years is a win in my book and something we would celebrate 5years from now lol (and yea, it's Monday after week 1 and I'm already having the "please lose for draft position" debate with myself. It's a friggin Bucs lif...errrr wait, Siege the (Draft) Day)

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3341

      That's simply because there are a lot of idiots here. They THRIVE on the negative. Look, listening and typing back and forth with a crowd of whining LOSERS during a game may be some fans cup of tea but I still believe it's pathetic. Some of these crying jackwagons actually believe they know what they're typing about. I do admit it's funny at times but most of the time it's the typical gibberish expected from impatient brats who didn't get their way in the April draft.The fans actually at the game? Well, they ARE actual fans and for the most part act like it.

      My God some of you losers........ Maybe you actually believe your whining and crying will amount to something more than wet tissues but I assure you it will not.I've been through much worse than this and the fact remains, the Buccaneers are building for the future.The days of plugging in washed up veterans in the false hope of getting to or just above .500 are OVER.Mankins was a mistake. McCown was a mistake. Revis, though not washed but but only still hurt when he was here was a bad mistake. The way to build and stay good, to be competitive year after year is through the draft. That's how you get a franchise QB. The Buccaneers are a young team on the rise but it is going to take some time. YES, this team has been AWFUL over the past 6 years, FAR below .500 in fact. But let's look at the present. We have a ROOKIE QB and very young players including rookies on the OL AND the defense. The older players on their way down will be replaced when they can be effectively. BUT IT TAKES TIME! This is the start of something good and a BAD preseason game does not change that fact for anyone but the most STUPID of "fans." Don't like that opinion? Good. It was meant for those who do not.One more thing that the whiners and complainers, the chicken littles might actually like to read......IF the Buccaneers continue to lose and lose badly at home Lovie Smith will not be here a year from now. And IF that happens I have no problem with it. Of course I hope and trust that will not happen. Losing at home games REALLY sucks. Regular season games that count. There is a difference you know.

      Some of these losers will whine till the water runs dry, it does not matter. To think that any fan could be stone stupid enough to believe that a 2-14 team could be changed overnight? LOL The point IS, as those of us with something between the ears probably know, this is the START and not the finished product. As someone who makes sense pointed out, there is only ONE DRAFT a YEAR! But we had what looks to be a HELL of a good draft last April and if those players and other young players can continue to develop this organization has a chance to be good for a long time. THAT is the goal. The goal is NOT to please a bunch of whining IDIOTS on a message in the third PRESEASON game.As Victor Newman would say........ You got that?

      Well, idiots and losers will be idiots and losers. Yes, I root for the Buccaneers and have done so for many years. Inferior "fans" such as yourself don't because we lost a preseason game. Or because the turnaround is not complete after three preseason games after a 2-14 season? Don't need you don't care to know you and won't see you at any games. Now THAT'S something to CRY about.....LOL

      Dude, that was two whole weeks ago. LOL @ the "REAL fan."

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    • c.greene55

      Participant
      Post count: 41

      There's really no point in firing him now, at least give him a chance to turn it around first.

      Has he not HAD a chance to turn it around after Coach Schiano's 4-14 season in 2013? It's 2015 and we STILL have not seen a single win at home from St. Lovie, not one. Where are the signs, however small, that this team is even close to turning around? Are the offense, defense or special teams better or worse? Is the arrow going up or down? Good arguments remain possibly getting a better HC next offseason after sacrificing yet another year and...... was there another one? THAT is all anyone can come up with? Not bashing posters and fans, it's just true. St. Lovie leaves nobody thinking he's EVER going to be the answer here and once again we are all paying the price for a Glazer screw up.

      He's coached 1 game in year 2. I suspect we will be looking for a new head coach after this season but that doesn't mean we fire our current one after 1 (albeit horrible) loss.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      That's simply because there are a lot of idiots here. They THRIVE on the negative. Look, listening and typing back and forth with a crowd of whining LOSERS during a game may be some fans cup of tea but I still believe it's pathetic. Some of these crying jackwagons actually believe they know what they're typing about. I do admit it's funny at times but most of the time it's the typical gibberish expected from impatient brats who didn't get their way in the April draft.The fans actually at the game? Well, they ARE actual fans and for the most part act like it.

      My God some of you losers........ Maybe you actually believe your whining and crying will amount to something more than wet tissues but I assure you it will not.I've been through much worse than this and the fact remains, the Buccaneers are building for the future.The days of plugging in washed up veterans in the false hope of getting to or just above .500 are OVER.Mankins was a mistake. McCown was a mistake. Revis, though not washed but but only still hurt when he was here was a bad mistake. The way to build and stay good, to be competitive year after year is through the draft. That's how you get a franchise QB. The Buccaneers are a young team on the rise but it is going to take some time. YES, this team has been AWFUL over the past 6 years, FAR below .500 in fact. But let's look at the present. We have a ROOKIE QB and very young players including rookies on the OL AND the defense. The older players on their way down will be replaced when they can be effectively. BUT IT TAKES TIME! This is the start of something good and a BAD preseason game does not change that fact for anyone but the most STUPID of "fans." Don't like that opinion? Good. It was meant for those who do not.One more thing that the whiners and complainers, the chicken littles might actually like to read......IF the Buccaneers continue to lose and lose badly at home Lovie Smith will not be here a year from now. And IF that happens I have no problem with it. Of course I hope and trust that will not happen. Losing at home games REALLY sucks. Regular season games that count. There is a difference you know.

      Some of these losers will whine till the water runs dry, it does not matter. To think that any fan could be stone stupid enough to believe that a 2-14 team could be changed overnight? LOL The point IS, as those of us with something between the ears probably know, this is the START and not the finished product. As someone who makes sense pointed out, there is only ONE DRAFT a YEAR! But we had what looks to be a HELL of a good draft last April and if those players and other young players can continue to develop this organization has a chance to be good for a long time. THAT is the goal. The goal is NOT to please a bunch of whining IDIOTS on a message in the third PRESEASON game.As Victor Newman would say........ You got that?

      Well, idiots and losers will be idiots and losers. Yes, I root for the Buccaneers and have done so for many years. Inferior "fans" such as yourself don't because we lost a preseason game. Or because the turnaround is not complete after three preseason games after a 2-14 season? Don't need you don't care to know you and won't see you at any games. Now THAT'S something to CRY about.....LOL

      Dude, that was two whole weeks ago. LOL @ the "REAL fan."

      I confess I'm a little flattered he took the time to look up all those posts. And yes, I was a bit over the top there. But if fans are going to be POed I suggest it be at the source of 2-15 and 0-9 and not another message board poster.Bottom line, the only answers worth keeping so far are that it might be easier to hire a new HC after the season. We might be in position to draft number one again if St. Lovie remains. And.... I think that's about it so far. SAD state of affairs. Listened to St. Lovie's press conference today. Hey guys, it's only one game. They were ready, maybe not prepared but ready. Not Tenessee ready but ready. Omly HAD months to get ready. Only one game. Bucs will be better.St. Lovie with a rose, in and out of the garden he goesCountry garden in the wind and the rainWherever he goes the people all complainDamn RIGHT we do!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 141

      There's also the idea that if we are going to be this bad under Lovie, then we are already in, might as well let him take us to the number one overall again. That at least gets us Bosa - Lovie getting us Jameis and Bosa in back-to-back years is a win in my book and something we would celebrate 5years from now lol (and yea, it's Monday after week 1 and I'm already having the "please lose for draft position" debate with myself. It's a friggin Bucs lif...errrr wait, Siege the (Draft) Day)

      Blow for Bosa?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 690

      There's also the idea that if we are going to be this bad under Lovie, then we are already in, might as well let him take us to the number one overall again. That at least gets us Bosa - Lovie getting us Jameis and Bosa in back-to-back years is a win in my book and something we would celebrate 5years from now lol (and yea, it's Monday after week 1 and I'm already having the "please lose for draft position" debate with myself. It's a friggin Bucs lif...errrr wait, Siege the (Draft) Day)

      Blow for Bosa?

      After yesterday, I think it's more like Bend Over for Bosa

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      Read lips?https://vine.co/v/eFIlaiWOY0a

      I can't make it out.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 232

      There's really no point in firing him now, at least give him a chance to turn it around first.

      Has he not HAD a chance to turn it around after Coach Schiano's 4-14 season in 2013? It's 2015 and we STILL have not seen a single win at home from St. Lovie, not one. Where are the signs, however small, that this team is even close to turning around? Are the offense, defense or special teams better or worse? Is the arrow going up or down? Good arguments remain possibly getting a better HC next offseason after sacrificing yet another year and...... was there another one? THAT is all anyone can come up with? Not bashing posters and fans, it's just true. St. Lovie leaves nobody thinking he's EVER going to be the answer here and once again we are all paying the price for a Glazer screw up.

      He's coached 1 game in year 2. I suspect we will be looking for a new head coach after this season but that doesn't mean we fire our current one after 1 (albeit horrible) loss.

      are we not counting the other 14

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    • c.greene55

      Participant
      Post count: 41

      There's really no point in firing him now, at least give him a chance to turn it around first.

      Has he not HAD a chance to turn it around after Coach Schiano's 4-14 season in 2013? It's 2015 and we STILL have not seen a single win at home from St. Lovie, not one. Where are the signs, however small, that this team is even close to turning around? Are the offense, defense or special teams better or worse? Is the arrow going up or down? Good arguments remain possibly getting a better HC next offseason after sacrificing yet another year and...... was there another one? THAT is all anyone can come up with? Not bashing posters and fans, it's just true. St. Lovie leaves nobody thinking he's EVER going to be the answer here and once again we are all paying the price for a Glazer screw up.

      He's coached 1 game in year 2. I suspect we will be looking for a new head coach after this season but that doesn't mean we fire our current one after 1 (albeit horrible) loss.

      are we not counting the other 14

      You aren't going to get an argument from me that Lovie Smith is incompetent. It's just that the time to fire him was last year after he went 2-14, now we have to wait again for it.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      Because firing coaches after two seasons is something the Browns and Redskins do.We have to stop this crap. Lovie needs one more year.God, I hate even saying it because I am sick of losing in such embarrassing ways, but the right choice is continuity. We need another year of Lovie, Licht and Koetter.Now Frazier? Ship his ass to China immediately.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 232

      Because firing coaches after two seasons is something the Browns and Redskins do.We have to stop this crap. Lovie needs one more year.God, I hate even saying it because I am sick of losing in such embarrassing ways, but the right choice is continuity. We need another year of Lovie, Licht and Koetter.Now Frazier? Ship his ass to China immediately.

      why- fire the assistants when the man making the decisions is making the wrong decisions

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      Because firing coaches after two seasons is something the Browns and Redskins do.We have to stop this crap. Lovie needs one more year.God, I hate even saying it because I am sick of losing in such embarrassing ways, but the right choice is continuity. We need another year of Lovie, Licht and Koetter.Now Frazier? Ship his ass to China immediately.

      Frazier?  Why?  He's a clip board holder.  Lovie called the defense yesterday.  You know that right?  Frazier is the least of our worries.  He's been eliminated already by Lovie "the loser" Smith.If Lovie goes 4-12...you say keep him?  Just because you want to keep the garbage we have?  Good god, why?  Why would we keep a loser retread that the game has completely by passed?  Holy crap!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      Because firing coaches after two seasons is something the Browns and Redskins do.We have to stop this crap. Lovie needs one more year.God, I hate even saying it because I am sick of losing in such embarrassing ways, but the right choice is continuity. We need another year of Lovie, Licht and Koetter.Now Frazier? Ship his ass to China immediately.

      Frazier?  Why?  He's a clip board holder.  Lovie called the defense yesterday.  You know that right?  Frazier is the least of our worries.  He's been eliminated already by Lovie "the loser" Smith.If Lovie goes 4-12...you say keep him?  Just because you want to keep the garbage we have?  Good god, why?  Why would we keep a loser retread that the game has completely by passed?  Holy crap!

      Fire Frazier for the exact reason you said: he's a clipboard holder. Hold someone accountable for yesterday. Release someone, fire a coach. Do -something-. Show that this type of play will not be tolerated.Yes, keep Lovie even if he goes 4-12. The players need to know that if they don't stay in their gaps and if they don't hold their assignments, they'll be held accountable by the guy in charge of the organization.These players need a fire lit under their ass by a strong move from the leaders of the organization. However, firing the HC after only two seasons means a complete reorganization of the team. It's too soon for that. You make that move as a last resort, not as a reactionary move.Fire Frazier, release a player or two. That's the correct move right now. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1176

      Lovie is not going to be fired at this point in the season. Get real.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 103

      You just don’t do that after the first loss, maybe after the first half of the season but not at the start. Garv is one of the chicken littles that got Schiano displaced, acting one of those derps who was in a hazmat suit, Tampa Bay fans are like teeter totters of emotion. So firing a coach after the first game of the season would only result in an even worse season. It would also not instill confidence in the players or even potential future candidates for the coaching search that would happen at seasons end. The organization made a mistake and must live with this mistake until season end.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      Because firing coaches after two seasons is something the Browns and Redskins do.We have to stop this crap. Lovie needs one more year.God, I hate even saying it because I am sick of losing in such embarrassing ways, but the right choice is continuity. We need another year of Lovie, Licht and Koetter.Now Frazier? Ship his ass to China immediately.

      Frazier?  Why?  He's a clip board holder.  Lovie called the defense yesterday.  You know that right?  Frazier is the least of our worries.  He's been eliminated already by Lovie "the loser" Smith.If Lovie goes 4-12...you say keep him?  Just because you want to keep the garbage we have?  Good god, why?  Why would we keep a loser retread that the game has completely by passed?  Holy crap!

      Fire Frazier for the exact reason you said: he's a clipboard holder. Hold someone accountable for yesterday. Release someone, fire a coach. Do -something-. Show that this type of play will not be tolerated.Yes, keep Lovie even if he goes 4-12. The players need to know that if they don't stay in their gaps and if they don't hold their assignments, they'll be held accountable by the guy in charge of the organization.These players need a fire lit under their ass by a strong move from the leaders of the organization. However, firing the HC after only two seasons means a complete reorganization of the team. It's too soon for that. You make that move as a last resort, not as a reactionary move.Fire Frazier, release a player or two. That's the correct move right now. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

      Lovie called all the defensive plays yesterday.  What message would firing Frazier now send?  It was Lovie running the show.  I dont understand your point.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5572

      Because firing coaches after two seasons is something the Browns and Redskins do.We have to stop this crap. Lovie needs one more year.God, I hate even saying it because I am sick of losing in such embarrassing ways, but the right choice is continuity. We need another year of Lovie, Licht and Koetter.Now Frazier? Ship his ass to China immediately.

      Frazier?  Why?  He's a clip board holder.  Lovie called the defense yesterday.  You know that right?  Frazier is the least of our worries.  He's been eliminated already by Lovie "the loser" Smith.If Lovie goes 4-12...you say keep him?  Just because you want to keep the garbage we have?  Good god, why?  Why would we keep a loser retread that the game has completely by passed?  Holy crap!

      Fire Frazier for the exact reason you said: he's a clipboard holder. Hold someone accountable for yesterday. Release someone, fire a coach. Do -something-. Show that this type of play will not be tolerated.Yes, keep Lovie even if he goes 4-12. The players need to know that if they don't stay in their gaps and if they don't hold their assignments, they'll be held accountable by the guy in charge of the organization.These players need a fire lit under their ass by a strong move from the leaders of the organization. However, firing the HC after only two seasons means a complete reorganization of the team. It's too soon for that. You make that move as a last resort, not as a reactionary move.Fire Frazier, release a player or two. That's the correct move right now. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

      Lovie called all the defensive plays yesterday.  What message would firing Frazier now send?  It was Lovie running the show.  I dont understand your point.

      A Defensive Coordinator does a lot more than call plays. He's responsible for the organization and preparation of the Defense. If you want to make a comparison to a business, then Frazier is the Department head. His department failed, in epic fashion.Is Lovie at fault? Absolutely, but so is Frazier. Letting Frazier go would send a message to the team about this type of performance not being acceptable.That being said, I don't actually think Frazier should be fired. I'd rather see someone from the defense released, like Conte. But, if you're going to fire a coach, then fire Frazier and let Lovie use it to light a fire under some asses.But who am I kidding? Lovie isn't brave enough for that.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      Because firing coaches after two seasons is something the Browns and Redskins do.We have to stop this crap. Lovie needs one more year.God, I hate even saying it because I am sick of losing in such embarrassing ways, but the right choice is continuity. We need another year of Lovie, Licht and Koetter.Now Frazier? Ship his ass to China immediately.

      Frazier?  Why?  He's a clip board holder.  Lovie called the defense yesterday.  You know that right?  Frazier is the least of our worries.  He's been eliminated already by Lovie "the loser" Smith.If Lovie goes 4-12...you say keep him?  Just because you want to keep the garbage we have?  Good god, why?  Why would we keep a loser retread that the game has completely by passed?  Holy crap!

      Fire Frazier for the exact reason you said: he's a clipboard holder. Hold someone accountable for yesterday. Release someone, fire a coach. Do -something-. Show that this type of play will not be tolerated.Yes, keep Lovie even if he goes 4-12. The players need to know that if they don't stay in their gaps and if they don't hold their assignments, they'll be held accountable by the guy in charge of the organization.These players need a fire lit under their ass by a strong move from the leaders of the organization. However, firing the HC after only two seasons means a complete reorganization of the team. It's too soon for that. You make that move as a last resort, not as a reactionary move.Fire Frazier, release a player or two. That's the correct move right now. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

      Lovie called all the defensive plays yesterday.  What message would firing Frazier now send?  It was Lovie running the show.  I dont understand your point.

      A Defensive Coordinator does a lot more than call plays. He's responsible for the organization and preparation of the Defense. If you want to make a comparison to a business, then Frazier is the Department head. His department failed, in epic fashion.Is Lovie at fault? Absolutely, but so is Frazier. Letting Frazier go would send a message to the team about this type of performance not being acceptable.That being said, I don't actually think Frazier should be fired. I'd rather see someone from the defense released, like Conte. But, if you're going to fire a coach, then fire Frazier and let Lovie use it to light a fire under some asses.But who am I kidding? Lovie isn't brave enough for that.

      Again, if Lovie fired Frazier after taking the defense over and then getting destroyed...he'd look like an even bigger idiot.  He'd basically be trying to fire himself.  Frazier has been back seat for weeks now.  He's getting coffee.  You shoulda fired him weeks ago.  You can't fire him now.  You'd look like a moron.  Makes zero sense.

      Please wait…

    • c.greene55

      Participant
      Post count: 41

      Because firing coaches after two seasons is something the Browns and Redskins do.We have to stop this crap. Lovie needs one more year.God, I hate even saying it because I am sick of losing in such embarrassing ways, but the right choice is continuity. We need another year of Lovie, Licht and Koetter.Now Frazier? Ship his ass to China immediately.

      "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." If we go 2-14 this year, then send Lovie on the first flight out of town.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Read lips?https://vine.co/v/eFIlaiWOY0a

      I can't make it out.

      whos gonna read it for us?!?

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Has he not HAD a chance to turn it around after Coach Schiano's 4-14 season in 2013? It's 2015 and we STILL have not seen a single win at home from St. Lovie, not one. Where are the signs, however small, that this team is even close to turning around? Are the offense, defense or special teams better or worse? Is the arrow going up or down?

      the ST didnt allow a score, did they?  thats an improvement.my problem with your line of thinking is - i think you just want to trust your coach, right?  you want to feel good?  well thats on you.  any coach we hire is gonna have "issues", whether its a previous firing or experience level or whatever we can find.  and what great coach is just sitting on his thumbs right now ready to take over midseason?  (i know what i just did)

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      You just don't do that after the first loss, maybe after the first half of the season but not at the start. Garv is one of the chicken littles that got Schiano displaced, acting one of those derps who was in a hazmat suit, Tampa Bay fans are like teeter totters of emotion. So firing a coach after the first game of the season would only result in an even worse season. It would also not instill confidence in the players or even potential future candidates for the coaching search that would happen at seasons end. The organization made a mistake and must live with this mistake until season end.

      WRONG!!! I was not supportive of Coach Schiano's firing and in fact was loud in objecting to it. I saw progress, particularly on defense and thought he deserved a third season. I also think he had FAR better success than St. Lovie has had.So because the organizatio has made a mistake THEY must live with it? Hell, WE apparently have to live with it. Seems to me anyway.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      You just don't do that after the first loss, maybe after the first half of the season but not at the start. Garv is one of the chicken littles that got Schiano displaced, acting one of those derps who was in a hazmat suit, Tampa Bay fans are like teeter totters of emotion. So firing a coach after the first game of the season would only result in an even worse season. It would also not instill confidence in the players or even potential future candidates for the coaching search that would happen at seasons end. The organization made a mistake and must live with this mistake until season end.

      WRONG!!! I was not supportive of Coach Schiano's firing and in fact was loud in objecting to it. I saw progress, particularly on defense and thought he deserved a third season. I also think he had FAR better success than St. Lovie has had.So because the organizatio has made a mistake THEY must live with it? Hell, WE apparently have to live with it. Seems to me anyway.

      You saw progress with Schiano? From 7 wins to 4 wins is progress?Almost breaking the single season yards allowed in passing defense with Derrell Revis is progress? And if Lovie wins 3 games this year wouldn't that be "progress"?This franchise has had one double digit win season in the last nine years. We suck. In part because we are too quick to fire our coaches and we have no stability.If Lovie continues to coach like he did yesterday, then the discussion will be had. But fire him now? That is crazy talk. That would be a knee jerk reaction and so obviously detrimental to the one critical thing we have been lacking since Gruden left. Continuity.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      JG, I know your passion and loyalty. No one can challenge that. I also am good at looking at the facts. Last year, plus Sunday equals failure, period. No discussion required. The biggest turn off for me is the blow outs. After being fed Super Bowl hype last year by some, the FA acquisitions and more hype, then the two blow outs and season record, it created a degree of resentment in me for the first time. I am pissed. I paid attention in the off season and observed L&L doing what I perceived was a good job. They admitted their mistakes, cut their losses with the dead wood, appeared to address QB, Oline issues and Kwon and picked up players with experience in Lovie’s system. All I wanted this year was being able to compete, no more blow outs. We all know we need two edge rushers and three more Olinemen next year with the first four/five picks. So I was willing to sit back, breath, not get my hopes up and watch the progress each week, win some, lose some but always in the hunt. Then Sunday.So I adhered to my 24 hour calm down rule and again, tried to be analytical, not emotional (pretty hard to do, as fans are emotional by definition). That said, I looked at the past 2 efforts of Raheem and Schiano. In my mind, just spinning our wheels, grinding out a new flavor of the day with NO PROGRESS. Now we are tied to Lovie & Licht for this year, plus two more, per the contract.I am vomiting in my mouth as i type this but on balance, I don't want another round of turnover; new execs, coaches, systems, personnel, just to be back at square one AGAIN. It's a matter of 'Pick Your Poison'. We have had experience THREE times now that, a new face doesn't equal success.So my RELUCTANT vote is to give L&L, et al, this season and next, to get the final pieces in here next year and win....not the Super Bowl but in the playoffs next year, 10-6. If he doesn't do that, then, I agree, let's do it again and see what brings a new flavor. If we go that route, it's another four years of pain, which if you add it up is a cumulative eleven years of pain, with four head coaches. We can start selling tickets to the Skyway Bridge by then. Go Bucs, JG, Go Bucs!!! You are my hero.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      Because firing coaches after two seasons is something the Browns and Redskins do.We have to stop this crap. Lovie needs one more year.God, I hate even saying it because I am sick of losing in such embarrassing ways, but the right choice is continuity. We need another year of Lovie, Licht and Koetter.Now Frazier? Ship his ass to China immediately.

      Frazier?  Why?  He's a clip board holder.  Lovie called the defense yesterday.  You know that right?  Frazier is the least of our worries.  He's been eliminated already by Lovie "the loser" Smith.If Lovie goes 4-12...you say keep him?  Just because you want to keep the garbage we have?  Good god, why?  Why would we keep a loser retread that the game has completely by passed?  Holy crap!

      Fire Frazier for the exact reason you said: he's a clipboard holder. Hold someone accountable for yesterday. Release someone, fire a coach. Do -something-. Show that this type of play will not be tolerated.Yes, keep Lovie even if he goes 4-12. The players need to know that if they don't stay in their gaps and if they don't hold their assignments, they'll be held accountable by the guy in charge of the organization.These players need a fire lit under their ass by a strong move from the leaders of the organization. However, firing the HC after only two seasons means a complete reorganization of the team. It's too soon for that. You make that move as a last resort, not as a reactionary move.Fire Frazier, release a player or two. That's the correct move right now. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

      I understand part of your reasoning, but I feel that Lovie is leading us down the wrong path. He brought Warhop, Frazier in last year, left Arroyo OC'ing with no help. Kept Warhop and Frazier this year, and we looked absolutely lost in most phases of the game on Sunday.I can't get behind continuity for the sake of continuity when all it means is we'll suck for another year because Lovie is the wrong man for the job.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      because it does no good to fire him.

      But it is good to KEEP him because? Come on. His positives.

      why?  everyone on this board is already sold.  reasons dont matter, just that W or L, right?the reasons to keep him start with the the fact you just cant start over midseason.  you gonna install a brand new defense?  you gonna change all the calls on defense?  on offense,  you gonna promote koetter after that showing?

      So just what I continue to be fed. St. Lovie stays because we're stuck with him. THAT'S the positive. Oh well, long time Buccaneer fans are used to it I suppose. Throw up the hands, sigh, and watch the Bucs be the Bucs.

      I mentioned before about possible issues with developing Winston, but here's another thought.What if having an interim guy distorts the choices going forward? Remember 1991, when we handed over the keys to the 1990 interim coach? I do, and it left scars.

      Is the question what if we make another horrible coaching hire?

      Sort of - a little more nuanced (and I don't know the answer to this) - does hiring an interim guy who has any kind of success make us more likely to foreclose a wider search for a HC. Let's say Frazier takes over (more likely I think) and we win 6 games with him. Does that make the Glazers more likely to give him the reigns? In other words, are we better served over the long haul by letting Lovie finish out 2015, cleaning house, and taking a fresh look at a wider range of candidates?

      My thought is you never reward failure out of fear of more failure.  Whatever it is we are discussing.  Lovie Smith has given absolutely no reason to keep him as head coach and primary football decision maker for another day.For every potential negative, I would point to a dozen potential positives.  If the interim wins games, the roster doesn't look bereft of talent from the outside.  At which point the interim probably deserves to be looked at seriously.  Along with a broad range of other candidates.  To be evaluated by someone in a GM or Pres of football operations role established before we hire a permanent head coach this time.

      I'm not "rewarding failure." Barring some serious turnaround in the performance of this team I fine with firing him with 3 years to go on his deal.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      For what it’s worth, I have different thoughts on Licht. I am with just about everyone that the FA moves he made in 2014 were a disaster. However, let's be fair - he was a first year GM brought in with the heavy input of Lovie. And when you see the FA moves, there are clear signs of the coaches having strong input into the choices - McCown, Cousins, Gilkey are the obvious ones. I didn't "love" last years draft, but I thought it made sense. I do like this one, and I think he's largely made smart decisions in terms of FA this year. I can't put my finger on all of this, but I just got the impression that he got his sea legs underneath him after year 1 and has the personnel side going in the right direction. Maybe it's the addition of guys like Robinson who he trusts, but I think he's moving in a different direction than Lovie. And if we think that coaching is "a" or "the" major problem, than that has to effect the development and performance of players. I understand the allure of someone like Polian or Ron Wolf but I think I'd rather that the Glazers hired someone like that as a consultant to help them hire a new GM and/or HC.  The scouting game is evolving due to analytics and I'd be wary of a purely old school GM. 

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      JG, I know your passion and loyalty. No one can challenge that. I also am good at looking at the facts. Last year, plus Sunday equals failure, period. No discussion required. The biggest turn off for me is the blow outs. After being fed Super Bowl hype last year by some, the FA acquisitions and more hype, then the two blow outs and season record, it created a degree of resentment in me for the first time. I am pissed. I paid attention in the off season and observed L&L doing what I perceived was a good job. They admitted their mistakes, cut their losses with the dead wood, appeared to address QB, Oline issues and Kwon and picked up players with experience in Lovie's system. All I wanted this year was being able to compete, no more blow outs. We all know we need two edge rushers and three more Olinemen next year with the first four/five picks. So I was willing to sit back, breath, not get my hopes up and watch the progress each week, win some, lose some but always in the hunt. Then Sunday.So I adhered to my 24 hour calm down rule and again, tried to be analytical, not emotional (pretty hard to do, as fans are emotional by definition). That said, I looked at the past 2 efforts of Raheem and Schiano. In my mind, just spinning our wheels, grinding out a new flavor of the day with NO PROGRESS. Now we are tied to Lovie & Licht for this year, plus two more, per the contract.I am vomiting in my mouth as i type this but on balance, I don't want another round of turnover; new execs, coaches, systems, personnel, just to be back at square one AGAIN. It's a matter of 'Pick Your Poison'. We have had experience THREE times now that, a new face doesn't equal success.So my RELUCTANT vote is to give L&L, et al, this season and next, to get the final pieces in here next year and win....not the Super Bowl but in the playoffs next year, 10-6. If he doesn't do that, then, I agree, let's do it again and see what brings a new flavor. If we go that route, it's another four years of pain, which if you add it up is a cumulative eleven years of pain, with four head coaches. We can start selling tickets to the Skyway Bridge by then. Go Bucs, JG, Go Bucs!!! You are my hero.

      Rusty, one of my favorite posters, no doubt. I even understand what you're typing here. But I just have NO confidence that this team will EVER be anywhere close to 10-6 under St. Lovie. The team looks absolutely lost! But maybe we have no choice anyway. Maybe what you are hoping for will come to pass. I WANT to see it happen but I just do not believe it will under St. Lovie. He's a MORE stubborn, MORE stuck in the past and LESS efficient Tony Dungy and Tony Dungy got FIRED for it.Oh well my man, we shall see....

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2000

      While it may be deserved, changing coaches at this point really accomplishes nothing. The one coach in place we’d like is the OC so the main piece won’t suffer.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      JG, I know your passion and loyalty. No one can challenge that. I also am good at looking at the facts. Last year, plus Sunday equals failure, period. No discussion required. The biggest turn off for me is the blow outs. After being fed Super Bowl hype last year by some, the FA acquisitions and more hype, then the two blow outs and season record, it created a degree of resentment in me for the first time. I am pissed. I paid attention in the off season and observed L&L doing what I perceived was a good job. They admitted their mistakes, cut their losses with the dead wood, appeared to address QB, Oline issues and Kwon and picked up players with experience in Lovie's system. All I wanted this year was being able to compete, no more blow outs. We all know we need two edge rushers and three more Olinemen next year with the first four/five picks. So I was willing to sit back, breath, not get my hopes up and watch the progress each week, win some, lose some but always in the hunt. Then Sunday.So I adhered to my 24 hour calm down rule and again, tried to be analytical, not emotional (pretty hard to do, as fans are emotional by definition). That said, I looked at the past 2 efforts of Raheem and Schiano. In my mind, just spinning our wheels, grinding out a new flavor of the day with NO PROGRESS. Now we are tied to Lovie & Licht for this year, plus two more, per the contract.I am vomiting in my mouth as i type this but on balance, I don't want another round of turnover; new execs, coaches, systems, personnel, just to be back at square one AGAIN. It's a matter of 'Pick Your Poison'. We have had experience THREE times now that, a new face doesn't equal success.So my RELUCTANT vote is to give L&L, et al, this season and next, to get the final pieces in here next year and win....not the Super Bowl but in the playoffs next year, 10-6. If he doesn't do that, then, I agree, let's do it again and see what brings a new flavor. If we go that route, it's another four years of pain, which if you add it up is a cumulative eleven years of pain, with four head coaches. We can start selling tickets to the Skyway Bridge by then. Go Bucs, JG, Go Bucs!!! You are my hero.

      Rusty, one of my favorite posters, no doubt. I even understand what you're typing here. But I just have NO confidence that this team will EVER be anywhere close to 10-6 under St. Lovie. The team looks absolutely lost! But maybe we have no choice anyway. Maybe what you are hoping for will come to pass. I WANT to see it happen but I just do not believe it will under St. Lovie. He's a MORE stubborn, MORE stuck in the past and LESS efficient Tony Dungy and Tony Dungy got FIRED for it.Oh well my man, we shall see....

      JG, thanks for the kind words and likewise. To be sure, I am not a Lovie fan nor advocate, I am just tired of the grind and regrind by now. I was a former Division 1 athlete in two sports, Basketball & Soccer (many awards & captaincies) back in the seventies and certainly played Pop Warner football, baseball, boxed...did it all. Obviously, no team in any sport wins every game, that's not my expectation. But 'NOT SHOWING UP', Jesus H Christ, how is that possible. Iam Irish Catholic. My family were all cops & firemen. All they were ever good at was drinking and FIGHTING. They ALWAYS showed up. The family saying was, you win some, you lose some...BUT YOU SHOW UP FOR THEM ALL. I am so tired of guys that make a good living (they earned the opportunity, they are entitled to every cent) don't have fire, passion, a kick ass attitude. JG, I know you know this but if you compare the post Super Bowl years and teams, to me there is a common thread. These rat bastards are stealing their paychecks. They might as well show up with a hood and mask. NO ONE GETS PISSED, there are no fights on the field out of frustration, there are no fights in the parking lot.Give me SAPP, LYNCH, BROOKS, HARDY and a bag of rocks and they could beat ALL of those other teams on pure desire. I respect McCoy. He is talented. But I will tell you this, if I was backed into a dark corner, I sure as hell wouldn't call him. He's help up the guy who kicked my ass and brush him off. Lovie & Frazier are comatose on the field and in the locker room and forget the press conferences. What I want is an attitude of fire breathing psychos with talent, REAL men who want to win. Shit talkers like Jim Brown (my all time favorite), Deacon Jones, John Randall, Mike Singletary, Joe Willie, Dick Butkis, Jack Lambert....et al. Where the hell is that attitude in this franchise. Those Glazer Boys couldn't run a lemonade stand. Their Father (RIP) won the Super Bowl, not those Three Stooges.If we make a change, bring in a Gruden type, who understands passion and will and drive, someone who will dig in the asses ALL DAY LONG!!!. If I was Lovie, I would have brought the defense over and knocked them in the head with a baseball bat to wake them up.NOT SHOWING UP!!!YOU MAKE ME SICK!!!Thanks JG, I feel better...Go Bucs!!!

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3341

      While it may be deserved, changing coaches at this point really accomplishes nothing.

      Precisely.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      JG, I know your passion and loyalty. No one can challenge that. I also am good at looking at the facts. Last year, plus Sunday equals failure, period. No discussion required. The biggest turn off for me is the blow outs. After being fed Super Bowl hype last year by some, the FA acquisitions and more hype, then the two blow outs and season record, it created a degree of resentment in me for the first time. I am pissed. I paid attention in the off season and observed L&L doing what I perceived was a good job. They admitted their mistakes, cut their losses with the dead wood, appeared to address QB, Oline issues and Kwon and picked up players with experience in Lovie's system. All I wanted this year was being able to compete, no more blow outs. We all know we need two edge rushers and three more Olinemen next year with the first four/five picks. So I was willing to sit back, breath, not get my hopes up and watch the progress each week, win some, lose some but always in the hunt. Then Sunday.So I adhered to my 24 hour calm down rule and again, tried to be analytical, not emotional (pretty hard to do, as fans are emotional by definition). That said, I looked at the past 2 efforts of Raheem and Schiano. In my mind, just spinning our wheels, grinding out a new flavor of the day with NO PROGRESS. Now we are tied to Lovie & Licht for this year, plus two more, per the contract.I am vomiting in my mouth as i type this but on balance, I don't want another round of turnover; new execs, coaches, systems, personnel, just to be back at square one AGAIN. It's a matter of 'Pick Your Poison'. We have had experience THREE times now that, a new face doesn't equal success.So my RELUCTANT vote is to give L&L, et al, this season and next, to get the final pieces in here next year and win....not the Super Bowl but in the playoffs next year, 10-6. If he doesn't do that, then, I agree, let's do it again and see what brings a new flavor. If we go that route, it's another four years of pain, which if you add it up is a cumulative eleven years of pain, with four head coaches. We can start selling tickets to the Skyway Bridge by then. Go Bucs, JG, Go Bucs!!! You are my hero.

      Rusty, one of my favorite posters, no doubt. I even understand what you're typing here. But I just have NO confidence that this team will EVER be anywhere close to 10-6 under St. Lovie. The team looks absolutely lost! But maybe we have no choice anyway. Maybe what you are hoping for will come to pass. I WANT to see it happen but I just do not believe it will under St. Lovie. He's a MORE stubborn, MORE stuck in the past and LESS efficient Tony Dungy and Tony Dungy got FIRED for it.Oh well my man, we shall see....

      JG, thanks for the kind words and likewise. To be sure, I am not a Lovie fan nor advocate, I am just tired of the grind and regrind by now. I was a former Division 1 athlete in two sports, Basketball & Soccer (many awards & captaincies) back in the seventies and certainly played Pop Warner football, baseball, boxed...did it all. Obviously, no team in any sport wins every game, that's not my expectation. But 'NOT SHOWING UP', Jesus H Christ, how is that possible. Iam Irish Catholic. My family were all cops & firemen. All they were ever good at was drinking and FIGHTING. They ALWAYS showed up. The family saying was, you win some, you lose some...BUT YOU SHOW UP FOR THEM ALL. I am so tired of guys that make a good living (they earned the opportunity, they are entitled to every cent) don't have fire, passion, a kick ass attitude. JG, I know you know this but if you compare the post Super Bowl years and teams, to me there is a common thread. These rat bastards are stealing their paychecks. They might as well show up with a hood and mask. NO ONE GETS PISSED, there are no fights on the field out of frustration, there are no fights in the parking lot.Give me SAPP, LYNCH, BROOKS, HARDY and a bag of rocks and they could beat ALL of those other teams on pure desire. I respect McCoy. He is talented. But I will tell you this, if I was backed into a dark corner, I sure as hell wouldn't call him. He's help up the guy who kicked my ass and brush him off. Lovie & Frazier are comatose on the field and in the locker room and forget the press conferences. What I want is an attitude of fire breathing psychos with talent, REAL men who want to win. (censored) talkers like Jim Brown (my all time favorite), Deacon Jones, John Randall, Mike Singletary, Joe Willie, Dick Butkis, Jack Lambert....et al. Where the hell is that attitude in this franchise. Those Glazer Boys couldn't run a lemonade stand. Their Father (RIP) won the Super Bowl, not those Three Stooges.If we make a change, bring in a Gruden type, who understands passion and will and drive, someone who will dig in the asses ALL DAY LONG!!!. If I was Lovie, I would have brought the defense over and knocked them in the head with a baseball bat to wake them up.NOT SHOWING UP!!!YOU MAKE ME SICK!!!Thanks JG, I feel better...Go Bucs!!!

      Rusty, love the passion, one gripe... Hardy is there on the sideline, He should be in Lovie's ear. Maybe he's "professional" now, and won't bark up the chain of command, but that's a guy that I feel should be on Lovie's ass about getting the team, especially the defense, playing with more passion.--one goofy thought though. I wonder if that initial hit from Major Wright deflated the defense so much. I mean, they came out and he dropped the ever loving hammer, got flagged, and I wonder if that could have made them a bit more cautious then they should have been. (but then again pro guys shouldn't let things like that effect them, unless they were worried about their pocketbooks)

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 169

      I wonder if Lovie will make it past the bye week …lets be honest I’m sure none of us see the Bucs winning our next 3 (At NO, At Houston, home against Carolina) so that only leaves the Week 5 game at home against Jacksonville as a potential win.  And if the Bucs continue to play like week 1 there’s no way we win that one.  So if the bye is here and we’re sitting at 0-5 with blowout losses does he make it through then?  I wouldn’t be surprised to see him fired and Frasier take over interim duties until EOS at that point.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      JG, I know your passion and loyalty. No one can challenge that. I also am good at looking at the facts. Last year, plus Sunday equals failure, period. No discussion required. The biggest turn off for me is the blow outs. After being fed Super Bowl hype last year by some, the FA acquisitions and more hype, then the two blow outs and season record, it created a degree of resentment in me for the first time. I am pissed. I paid attention in the off season and observed L&L doing what I perceived was a good job. They admitted their mistakes, cut their losses with the dead wood, appeared to address QB, Oline issues and Kwon and picked up players with experience in Lovie's system. All I wanted this year was being able to compete, no more blow outs. We all know we need two edge rushers and three more Olinemen next year with the first four/five picks. So I was willing to sit back, breath, not get my hopes up and watch the progress each week, win some, lose some but always in the hunt. Then Sunday.So I adhered to my 24 hour calm down rule and again, tried to be analytical, not emotional (pretty hard to do, as fans are emotional by definition). That said, I looked at the past 2 efforts of Raheem and Schiano. In my mind, just spinning our wheels, grinding out a new flavor of the day with NO PROGRESS. Now we are tied to Lovie & Licht for this year, plus two more, per the contract.I am vomiting in my mouth as i type this but on balance, I don't want another round of turnover; new execs, coaches, systems, personnel, just to be back at square one AGAIN. It's a matter of 'Pick Your Poison'. We have had experience THREE times now that, a new face doesn't equal success.So my RELUCTANT vote is to give L&L, et al, this season and next, to get the final pieces in here next year and win....not the Super Bowl but in the playoffs next year, 10-6. If he doesn't do that, then, I agree, let's do it again and see what brings a new flavor. If we go that route, it's another four years of pain, which if you add it up is a cumulative eleven years of pain, with four head coaches. We can start selling tickets to the Skyway Bridge by then. Go Bucs, JG, Go Bucs!!! You are my hero.

      Rusty, one of my favorite posters, no doubt. I even understand what you're typing here. But I just have NO confidence that this team will EVER be anywhere close to 10-6 under St. Lovie. The team looks absolutely lost! But maybe we have no choice anyway. Maybe what you are hoping for will come to pass. I WANT to see it happen but I just do not believe it will under St. Lovie. He's a MORE stubborn, MORE stuck in the past and LESS efficient Tony Dungy and Tony Dungy got FIRED for it.Oh well my man, we shall see....

      JG, thanks for the kind words and likewise. To be sure, I am not a Lovie fan nor advocate, I am just tired of the grind and regrind by now. I was a former Division 1 athlete in two sports, Basketball & Soccer (many awards & captaincies) back in the seventies and certainly played Pop Warner football, baseball, boxed...did it all. Obviously, no team in any sport wins every game, that's not my expectation. But 'NOT SHOWING UP', Jesus H Christ, how is that possible. Iam Irish Catholic. My family were all cops & firemen. All they were ever good at was drinking and FIGHTING. They ALWAYS showed up. The family saying was, you win some, you lose some...BUT YOU SHOW UP FOR THEM ALL. I am so tired of guys that make a good living (they earned the opportunity, they are entitled to every cent) don't have fire, passion, a kick ass attitude. JG, I know you know this but if you compare the post Super Bowl years and teams, to me there is a common thread. These rat bastards are stealing their paychecks. They might as well show up with a hood and mask. NO ONE GETS PISSED, there are no fights on the field out of frustration, there are no fights in the parking lot.Give me SAPP, LYNCH, BROOKS, HARDY and a bag of rocks and they could beat ALL of those other teams on pure desire. I respect McCoy. He is talented. But I will tell you this, if I was backed into a dark corner, I sure as hell wouldn't call him. He's help up the guy who kicked my ass and brush him off. Lovie & Frazier are comatose on the field and in the locker room and forget the press conferences. What I want is an attitude of fire breathing psychos with talent, REAL men who want to win. (censored) talkers like Jim Brown (my all time favorite), Deacon Jones, John Randall, Mike Singletary, Joe Willie, Dick Butkis, Jack Lambert....et al. Where the hell is that attitude in this franchise. Those Glazer Boys couldn't run a lemonade stand. Their Father (RIP) won the Super Bowl, not those Three Stooges.If we make a change, bring in a Gruden type, who understands passion and will and drive, someone who will dig in the asses ALL DAY LONG!!!. If I was Lovie, I would have brought the defense over and knocked them in the head with a baseball bat to wake them up.NOT SHOWING UP!!!YOU MAKE ME SICK!!!Thanks JG, I feel better...Go Bucs!!!

      Rusty, love the passion, one gripe... Hardy is there on the sideline, He should be in Lovie's ear. Maybe he's "professional" now, and won't bark up the chain of command, but that's a guy that I feel should be on Lovie's ass about getting the team, especially the defense, playing with more passion.--one goofy thought though. I wonder if that initial hit from Major Wright deflated the defense so much. I mean, they came out and he dropped the ever loving hammer, got flagged, and I wonder if that could have made them a bit more cautious then they should have been. (but then again pro guys shouldn't let things like that effect them, unless they were worried about their pocketbooks)

      Moose40.....great point. I sense that you may be a former athlete too and understand about my message. I think you make a VERY valid point about Hardy. Of course neither of us know what goes on behind closed doors but to your point, I hope and pray that Hardy, in his current position has not lost any testosterone from his playing days.On the question of the Major Wright hit, if that took the wind out of the sails of this defense, then they need to start playing women's volleyball. Thanks.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 318

      From 2012 Nine Reasons for Nine Seasons to Fire Lovie SmithLovie Smith has had the third longest tenure in Bears history. He has a 87-67 record in eight plus seasons as coach. The Bears have advanced to one Super Bowl and have a 3-3 record in three playoff appearances during his tenure. His 79 wins are third in Bears history and overall his tenure has to be deemed a success. The Bears have only had losing seasons three times under Smith. Only his first season could truly be considered disastrous. The Bears finished 5-11 in 2004.Smith led the Bears to the playoffs by his second season with a first round bye and in the Superbowl in year three. They have only won one playoff game since. That was in 2010 when the Bears defeated Seattle in the Divisional Playoffs and then lost to Green Bay at Soldier Field in the NFC Championship game.Many fans and most of the media have become restless. The calls for his ouster have been rampant in the media, by fans and on sports talk radio stations all over Chicago. After starting 7-1, the Bears have since fallen to 8-5. The call for Smith’s ouster has been frequent over the last few seasons. The Bears historic start to 2012 seemed to quell that talk. The last five weeks have intensified as the Bears have faltered behind key injuries, an ineffective offensive line an inconsistent offense and a defense that hasn't been able to maintain their dominance.With Smith in the last year of his contact, many media members have called for him the Bears to not extend him this season and see what he can do in 2013. Although ;letting a player play out his contract, it is unusual for a coach to go into the last year of his contact without an extension or having been let go. Where the Bears go next could depend on the last three games against Green Bay and Arizona and Detroit.Inefficient offenseThe Bears offense under Smith has been stagnant and unimaginative. They have only finished in the top 20 in total offense in his nine seasons once. That was 15th in 2006, their lone Super Bowl appearance in the Smith era. They have four top five appearances in scoring under Smith, but those number have always been boosted by the emphasis on the defense producing turnovers and points.Jay Cutler's inconsistencyThe Bears acquired Cutler and a fifth round pick for Kyle Orton, two first round picks and a fifth before the 2009 draft. He was hailed as the savior of the franchise. He has a 32-21 record in his three plus seasons in Chicago. The Bears have only one playoff appearance and one postseason win in his first three seasons. His quarterback rating is just 81.8 as a Bear. He has thrown 79 touchdowns and 62 interceptions in his Chicago tenure. His QB rating and touchdown to interception rate are both worse than they were in Denver.Many have criticized the turnover of the offensive coordinators and Smith’s conservative approach offensively. The Bears have not finished higher than 23rd in total yards during Cutler’s tenure. Cutler could be going on his fifth coordinator in six years if Tice doesn’t return for the 2013 season.Rotating coordinatorsThe Bears have had four offensive and three defensive coordinators during the Smith era. The defense, which is overseen by Smith has been one of the best in the NFL since his arrival in 2004.His Offensive coordinators have been Terry Shea (2004), Ron Turner (2005-09), Mike Martz (2010-11) and Mike Tice (2012-  ).Only the 2006 season can be deemed a success offensively for the Bears during the Smith Era. They finished 15th in yards that season and second in points scored. That was the only time since 2004 the Bears have finished above 23rd in total offense. The changing systems offensively have hurt any continuity the Bears have had. In six of Smith’s nine seasons (including 2012), the Bears have finished in the bottom quarter of the NFL in total offense.Although Smith is the defacto defensive coordinator, he has has a defensive coordinator in each of his nine seasons in Chicago. Ron Rivera (2004-06), Bob Babich (2007-09) and Rod Marinelli (2010-  ). Have been essentially Smith’s lieutenant’s on defensive. They have utilized the Tampa Bay cover two during the majority of Smith’s tenure.The defense has four top ten finishes in total yardage under Smith, but the other five seasons have seen the Bears finish from 13th to 21st in total defense. Smith’s defense is predicated on forcing turnover and limiting points more than worrying about how many yards the team has given up. They have four top ten finishes in points allowed during Smith’s tenure. The other five seasons have had the Bears wind up between 13th and 21st in points allowed. They are number one overall in turnovers forced since Smith took over in 2004.The Defense averaged a sixth place finish in points allowed and ninth in yards given up under Rivera, 18th and 22nd under Babich and seventh and tenth under Marinelli. Its the defense that has fueled the Bears success in all but the Superbowl season under Smith.Inability to develop talentAlthough Jerry Angelo and Phil Emery have overseen the nine draft since Smith was hired in 2004, his inability to cultivate that talent has been hurt the Bears in recent years.Nine Players that were drafted by the Bears have been to the Pro Bowl under Smith. Five defensive players earned trips, two on special teams and two on offensive. Matt Forte is the only skilled position player on offense selected to the pro-bowl in Smith’s tenure. That should change this year after the season Brandon Marshall has had. Three of the players were drafted before Smith was hired.Shea McClellin and Gabe Carimi are the only Bears first rounds picks since 2004 that are still on the roster. Neither is a starter at the position that were drafted at. Smith has done a solid job with the players drafted on the defensive side of the ball, but the offensive players that they have drafted have been a disaster with the exception of Forte. Smith has to be liable for some of the blame to develop the players. Scouts and management find talent and coaches are supposed to develop the players provided to them.Disastrous offensive lineThe Bears have been in the top six for most sacks allowed in each of the last three seasons. The Bears have had to repeatedly draft offensive lineman in an attempt to get to produce results. After drafting the injury prone Chris Williams at guard in 2008, the Bears had to let him go earlier this season due to more injuries and ineffectiveness. That was after moving him inside to guard.They seemingly bring in free agents that have not worked out in attempt to patch up the O-Line. It hasn’t worked and now the Bears will go into another off-season needing to find help on the offensive line through the draft and in free agency.Lack of recent postseason appearancesSmith made a big splash early in his tenure with the Bears. After a 5-11 inaugural season, the Bears went 24-8 in his next two including a Super Bowl appearance after the 2006 season. The five plus seasons since then have seen the Bears only go 50-43 with one playoff appearances. If the Bears collapse and miss the playoffs that will make it five of the last six seasons out of the postseason. Most NFL Head Coaches would not survive that.The Devin Hester failed experiment at Wide ReceiverHester’s first two seasons in the NFL were magical. He scored 11 times on punt and kickoff returns and electrified the NFL. Bears play-by-play announcer Jeff Joniak dubbed Hester as ridiculous. After his first season, the Bears thought they could duplicate that magic on offense.Hester has produced 217 receptions for 2807 yards and 14 touchdowns in his six seasons as a wide receiver. That would average out to 31 receptions for 408 yards and two touchdowns per season.Hardly inspiring numbers. He has started 46 games at Wide Receiver since 2008. The Bears insistence on continuing to give him chances despite his frequent drops and lack of understanding of the offense has hindered the progress offensively.December record Under Smith the Bears are 20-21 in regular seasons games in December and January. In a league where finishing strong has become more important in the last few seasons, Smith’s teams seem to coast at the end. Four of the last five NFC Champions have been teams that peaked going into the playoffs.Packers Recent Dominance Over the BearsSmith mentioned in his introductory press conference as the Bears head coach the importance of beating the Packers. After winning six of their first ten against Green Bay in the Smith era, the Bears have lost eight of their last ten against the Packers. That has included five in a row.The loss to the Packers in the 2010 NFC Championship game did not sit well with Bears fans. If they lose this Sunday, the Packers will clinch the division. A win would pull the Bears back into a tie for first and in solid contention to still claim the title. Smith has always put a premium on divisional games and now would be a good time for his team to back that up.It Could be Time for a ChangeSometimes there is a just a need for a new voice. A coach’s message can last for only so long. Smith’s easy going approach has made him into a coach the players love to play for. How long can that last though. What kind of coach would change things for the Bears?.Although that have had a better than average record under Smith, the majority of it came in three seasons. The 2005, 2006 and 2010 seasons were the only trips to the playoffs. They added a 9-7 non playoff season in 2008. If they win just one of their last three this season they will have another plus .500 season in Smith’s tenure. That would leave it at five seasons above .500 and four below in the Smith era.Smith is the third straight defensive minded Head Coach the Bears have had. Dick Jauron was the defensive coordinator in Jacksonville and Dave Wannstedt the DC in Dallas before leading the Bears.The Bears offensive needs a complete makeover. Other than the 2006 Super Bowl season, the defense has fueled the Smith era. Another offensive coordinator might not be the best thing for Cutler though. The Bears are not in an easy position. There are many factors into what goes into firing a coach.Smith has given the Bears many reasons to look for a new coach. Ultimately, the next three games could determine his fate.http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-sports-lists/2012/12/nine-reasons-for-nine-seasons-to-fire-lovie-smith/

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1845

      JG, I know your passion and loyalty. No one can challenge that. I also am good at looking at the facts. Last year, plus Sunday equals failure, period. No discussion required. The biggest turn off for me is the blow outs. After being fed Super Bowl hype last year by some, the FA acquisitions and more hype, then the two blow outs and season record, it created a degree of resentment in me for the first time. I am pissed. I paid attention in the off season and observed L&L doing what I perceived was a good job. They admitted their mistakes, cut their losses with the dead wood, appeared to address QB, Oline issues and Kwon and picked up players with experience in Lovie's system. All I wanted this year was being able to compete, no more blow outs. We all know we need two edge rushers and three more Olinemen next year with the first four/five picks. So I was willing to sit back, breath, not get my hopes up and watch the progress each week, win some, lose some but always in the hunt. Then Sunday.So I adhered to my 24 hour calm down rule and again, tried to be analytical, not emotional (pretty hard to do, as fans are emotional by definition). That said, I looked at the past 2 efforts of Raheem and Schiano. In my mind, just spinning our wheels, grinding out a new flavor of the day with NO PROGRESS. Now we are tied to Lovie & Licht for this year, plus two more, per the contract.I am vomiting in my mouth as i type this but on balance, I don't want another round of turnover; new execs, coaches, systems, personnel, just to be back at square one AGAIN. It's a matter of 'Pick Your Poison'. We have had experience THREE times now that, a new face doesn't equal success.So my RELUCTANT vote is to give L&L, et al, this season and next, to get the final pieces in here next year and win....not the Super Bowl but in the playoffs next year, 10-6. If he doesn't do that, then, I agree, let's do it again and see what brings a new flavor. If we go that route, it's another four years of pain, which if you add it up is a cumulative eleven years of pain, with four head coaches. We can start selling tickets to the Skyway Bridge by then. Go Bucs, JG, Go Bucs!!! You are my hero.

      Rusty, one of my favorite posters, no doubt. I even understand what you're typing here. But I just have NO confidence that this team will EVER be anywhere close to 10-6 under St. Lovie. The team looks absolutely lost! But maybe we have no choice anyway. Maybe what you are hoping for will come to pass. I WANT to see it happen but I just do not believe it will under St. Lovie. He's a MORE stubborn, MORE stuck in the past and LESS efficient Tony Dungy and Tony Dungy got FIRED for it.Oh well my man, we shall see....

      JG, thanks for the kind words and likewise. To be sure, I am not a Lovie fan nor advocate, I am just tired of the grind and regrind by now. I was a former Division 1 athlete in two sports, Basketball & Soccer (many awards & captaincies) back in the seventies and certainly played Pop Warner football, baseball, boxed...did it all. Obviously, no team in any sport wins every game, that's not my expectation. But 'NOT SHOWING UP', Jesus H Christ, how is that possible. Iam Irish Catholic. My family were all cops & firemen. All they were ever good at was drinking and FIGHTING. They ALWAYS showed up. The family saying was, you win some, you lose some...BUT YOU SHOW UP FOR THEM ALL. I am so tired of guys that make a good living (they earned the opportunity, they are entitled to every cent) don't have fire, passion, a kick ass attitude. JG, I know you know this but if you compare the post Super Bowl years and teams, to me there is a common thread. These rat bastards are stealing their paychecks. They might as well show up with a hood and mask. NO ONE GETS PISSED, there are no fights on the field out of frustration, there are no fights in the parking lot.Give me SAPP, LYNCH, BROOKS, HARDY and a bag of rocks and they could beat ALL of those other teams on pure desire. I respect McCoy. He is talented. But I will tell you this, if I was backed into a dark corner, I sure as hell wouldn't call him. He's help up the guy who kicked my ass and brush him off. Lovie & Frazier are comatose on the field and in the locker room and forget the press conferences. What I want is an attitude of fire breathing psychos with talent, REAL men who want to win. (censored) talkers like Jim Brown (my all time favorite), Deacon Jones, John Randall, Mike Singletary, Joe Willie, Dick Butkis, Jack Lambert....et al. Where the hell is that attitude in this franchise. Those Glazer Boys couldn't run a lemonade stand. Their Father (RIP) won the Super Bowl, not those Three Stooges.If we make a change, bring in a Gruden type, who understands passion and will and drive, someone who will dig in the asses ALL DAY LONG!!!. If I was Lovie, I would have brought the defense over and knocked them in the head with a baseball bat to wake them up.NOT SHOWING UP!!!YOU MAKE ME SICK!!!Thanks JG, I feel better...Go Bucs!!!

      Rusty, love the passion, one gripe... Hardy is there on the sideline, He should be in Lovie's ear. Maybe he's "professional" now, and won't bark up the chain of command, but that's a guy that I feel should be on Lovie's ass about getting the team, especially the defense, playing with more passion.--one goofy thought though. I wonder if that initial hit from Major Wright deflated the defense so much. I mean, they came out and he dropped the ever loving hammer, got flagged, and I wonder if that could have made them a bit more cautious then they should have been. (but then again pro guys shouldn't let things like that effect them, unless they were worried about their pocketbooks)

      Moose40.....great point. I sense that you may be a former athlete too and understand about my message. I think you make a VERY valid point about Hardy. Of course neither of us know what goes on behind closed doors but to your point, I hope and pray that Hardy, in his current position has not lost any testosterone from his playing days.On the question of the Major Wright hit, if that took the wind out of the sails of this defense, then they need to start playing women's volleyball. Thanks.

      Rusty, not to beat a dead horse, but if this quote from Lavonte is true.... I think I'm going to be sick:“We played a little passive after that first play,” David said. “I think after that penalty, kinda like killed our momentum. Because we wanted to come out and be physical, and that was the statement of the game there. Major coming out being physical. After that happened he got the flag, ‘We were like, oh, man. We can’t, you know, come out and do what we wanted to do.’“We kind of let that get to us a little bit. We can’t let that affect us, you know. Every time we’re on the field, we gotta be the most dominating, be the most physical. Obviously, that wasn’t the case.”

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1550

      Other than the much ballyhooed "continuity" argument (even though constantly losing is NOT the kind of continuity we had in mind) why in the world should fans want this disaster to continue?Out of curiosity I'd like to hear from fans who truly still believe this man is the guy to lead our Buccaneers back to Super Bowl contention. His preparation? His enthusiasm? His calm demeanor? His leadership? Is it his mastery of the Tampa 2? His press conference savvy? Go ahead. Convince me St. Lovie is the man we want to "clean up" this mess of his own doing.Thanks in advance!

      Because it's week one, Garv. If the Bucs go up to New Orleans and kick the crap out of a banged up Saints team then it gets better, does it not?Look, I'm with you on doubts about Lovie. Trust me on that. Sunday's beating at the hands of a rookie QB making his first NFL start on the road and a team that was just as bad as we were last year has me hopping mad.Seeing Dan Quinn's defense stifle the high flying Eagles pissed me off even more. Why are these rookie coaches like Bill O'Brien and Mike Zimmer able to have better teams in their first year than our seasoned coach Lovie?Jim Tomusla looks like Raheem incarnate and had his defense gutted, but they sure made the Vikings and Adrian Peterson look like dog crap.Even with all that - week 1 is way too early to fire Lovie. But if this season starts to spiral out of control and we get to 1-5 or 0-6 then I'll tell you right now, I'm all for dumping Lovie and seeing what Dirk can do as an interim head coach.And can we win a fooking home game please? Jiminy Christmas.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1250

      Other than the much ballyhooed "continuity" argument (even though constantly losing is NOT the kind of continuity we had in mind) why in the world should fans want this disaster to continue?Out of curiosity I'd like to hear from fans who truly still believe this man is the guy to lead our Buccaneers back to Super Bowl contention. His preparation? His enthusiasm? His calm demeanor? His leadership? Is it his mastery of the Tampa 2? His press conference savvy? Go ahead. Convince me St. Lovie is the man we want to "clean up" this mess of his own doing.Thanks in advance!

      Because it's week one, Garv. If the Bucs go up to New Orleans and kick the crap out of a banged up Saints team then it gets better, does it not?Look, I'm with you on doubts about Lovie. Trust me on that. Sunday's beating at the hands of a rookie QB making his first NFL start on the road and a team that was just as bad as we were last year has me hopping mad.Seeing Dan Quinn's defense stifle the high flying Eagles pissed me off even more. Why are these rookie coaches like Bill O'Brien and Mike Zimmer able to have better teams in their first year than our seasoned coach Lovie?Jim Tomusla looks like Raheem incarnate and had his defense gutted, but they sure made the Vikings and Adrian Peterson look like dog crap.Even with all that - week 1 is way too early to fire Lovie. But if this season starts to spiral out of control and we get to 1-5 or 0-6 then I'll tell you right now, I'm all for dumping Lovie and seeing what Dirk can do as an interim head coach.And can we win a fooking home game please? Jiminy Christmas.

      I'm with you Jason, if this season starts to spiral out of control then I would be all for giving Lovie the boot but after the first game is a bit too premature.I keep telling myself that it will get better because i do have a lot hope in Jameis and having Mike Evans back should help big time. The defense though, I had high hopes but man those hopes were shattered big time.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 40

      Read lips?https://vine.co/v/eFIlaiWOY0a

      I can't make it out.

      Looks like he's saying "We can't stop them"

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1324

      I saw Lovie’s defense totally unable to stop the run yesterday when doing so would have forced Mallett into third and longs and into passing most of the afternoon. Now, given the mess the Texan’s OL was and that they started a backup RB one would THINK the Buccaneers could have done that. But for some reason the run D did not show up and that, IMO, is on St. Lovie. Once again.Now the Buccaneers are coming home for two straight home games and damn it, if they lose to the Panthers badly and the Jaguars period, St. Lovie should be RETIRED!!!Never to be a HC in this league again. Nobody wants to watch a game like yesterday's home or away and that is on ST. LOVIE!!!!So show us something on Sunday or get the hell out of town. Rant over. Mild one I think.

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