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    • Hayseed

      Participant
      Post count: 314

      Why do we suck?Between 2008-2014, here's our OL draft picks:2008:  Zuttah (3)2009:  Fulton (5)2014:  Edwards (5)2014:  Pamphile (5)So, that's seven seasons, drafts without capitalizing on the draft to build quality OL depth. Free agency is NOT the way to build a quality offensive line. We've seen it. We've witnessed it first hand. We're still paying for that decision today. You can point to crappy drafting all you want but IMO, this critical and inexcusable course of action is the single biggest reason for our offensive woes. At least with Smith and Marpet, we're now making an effort to fix this but not sure how that will translate to success THIS season. 

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      Any hopes of a Packer comeback died amidst a crimson wave of destruction.

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      our parents?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 855

      All I can is, it starts at the top. The last couple of GM’s completely neglected that position and that’s just the reality. At least Gruden attempted to build through the trenches. Joseph and Trueblood under-achieved but hey, he had the right idea. Zuttah is actually a good player in Baltimore but I think its the Evans Smith effect. Ravens just like the Packers, arguably have the one best Guard tandem in the league, so Zoot will benefit even on a bad day. Lovie has always has had a bad OL since his days in Chicago. Licht, however, was with the Patriots and they drafted quality OL year after year it seemed. They didn’t lose a beat when Matt Light retired. The Charles Sims pick over Gabe Jackson is still a blunder. Tedford probably influenced that decision but man, this team would look so much better had we addressed the G position last year. I remember when the Cowboys had TERRIBLE offensive lines for years when Romo was making a name for himself after taking over for Bledsoe. And they JUST established the best OL in the entire NFL last year. We won't have a quality OL until we invest into the position. Point blank period. A replacement for Mankins/EDS is feasible though next year. We just gotta hope Smith and Marpet turn out to be good players.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Based on what’s been seen so far, we should draft nothing but OL/DE next year!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 303

      Why do we suck?Between 2008-2014, here's our OL draft picks:2008:  Zuttah (3)2009:  Fulton (5)2014:  Edwards (5)2014:  Pamphile (5)So, that's seven seasons, drafts without capitalizing on the draft to build quality OL depth. Free agency is NOT the way to build a quality offensive line. We've seen it. We've witnessed it first hand. We're still paying for that decision today. You can point to crappy drafting all you want but IMO, this critical and inexcusable course of action is the single biggest reason for our offensive woes. At least with Smith and Marpet, we're now making an effort to fix this but not sure how that will translate to success THIS season.

      Which is why I don't understand the red board's chicken little mentality after the 3rd preseason game......This won't be fixed going into year 2 of the new HC/GM. They swung and missed on OL talent in FA and the draft last year, this year looks more promising. In the words of Aaron Rodgers:R-E-L-A-X2017 NFC Champions!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Who’s turn is it next to beat this horse? Step right up, we don’t have all day and the line is long.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Recommendations, youngone? You never seem to have any.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      You believe Mariota could do better behind this line?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Recommendations, youngone? You never seem to have any.

      Scotch

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      You believe Mariota could do better behind this line?

      I believe Winston can get it done behind this line. What does the QB in Tennessee have to do with this?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      Recommendations, youngone? You never seem to have any.

      Scotch

      Bourbon...good small batch bourbon

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      Recommendations, youngone? You never seem to have any.

      Scotch

      Bourbon...good small batch bourbon

      Ahh a fine choice.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      You believe Mariota could do better behind this line?

      I believe Winston can get it done behind this line. What does the QB in Tennessee have to do with this?

      You tell me. Thought you were still pining for him. Great recommendation BTW. I swear, we need a "kids table" in the forum. Maybe I'm at the "kids table".

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 369

      This is all that God damn Obama’s fault!  What this team needs is Donald Trump! 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 215

      This post is silly. I think we are all aware of this lol.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 303

      This post is silly. I think we are all aware of this lol.

      I wouldn't go that far

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1830

      This post is silly. I think we are all aware of this lol.

      I wouldn't go that far

      For sure...

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 215

      This post is silly. I think we are all aware of this lol.

      I wouldn't go that far

      ...Who isn't??? All we can hope is that L&L know it needs to be fixed.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Go back and look at all the people that think the QB is to blame. Those are the ones that don’t get it. The O-line is the root of all evil on this offense. Period. Josh McCown didn't just "get it" in Cleveland. Don't get me wrong, he's not the best decision maker out there and he made some piss poor ones while here but he is showing that we decent protection, he's a serviceable starter.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 11045

      You believe Mariota could do better behind this line?

      I believe Winston can get it done behind this line. What does the QB in Tennessee have to do with this?

      You tell me. Thought you were still pining for him.

      Maybe you thought wrong.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2412

      Go back and look at all the people that think the QB is to blame. Those are the ones that don't get it. The O-line is the root of all evil on this offense. Period. Josh McCown didn't just "get it" in Cleveland. Don't get me wrong, he's not the best decision maker out there and he made some piss poor ones while here but he is showing that we decent protection, he's a serviceable starter.

      Just curious, can you show us a post where a non obvious troll account said it is all Winston's fault?  I'll wait here.

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    • tbfan4047

      Participant
      Post count: 534

      You believe Mariota could do better behind this line?

      I believe Winston can get it done behind this line. What does the QB in Tennessee have to do with this?

      You tell me. Thought you were still pining for him. Great recommendation BTW. I swear, we need a "kids table" in the forum. Maybe I'm at the "kids table".

      What kind of recommendedation are you looking for? Your OP basically says "We need to draft OL. We suck until then"...what "recommendation" are you wanting? You want posters to "recommend" that we should have drafted lineman over the last decade?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      You believe Mariota could do better behind this line?

      I believe Winston can get it done behind this line. What does the QB in Tennessee have to do with this?

      You tell me. Thought you were still pining for him. Great recommendation BTW. I swear, we need a "kids table" in the forum. Maybe I'm at the "kids table".

      What kind of recommendedation are you looking for? Your OP basically says "We need to draft OL. We suck until then"...what "recommendation" are you wanting? You want posters to "recommend" that we should have drafted lineman over the last decade?

      great post prime.  OBP has begun drafting OL highly, just like our fans wanted, and we still say there is no direction.  most fans agree it takes an elite QB to win in todays NFL, yet our fans still complain no direction.LiLo need to learn how to snap their fingers or click their heels better, thats my rec

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Go back and look at all the people that think the QB is to blame. Those are the ones that don't get it. The O-line is the root of all evil on this offense. Period. Josh McCown didn't just "get it" in Cleveland. Don't get me wrong, he's not the best decision maker out there and he made some piss poor ones while here but he is showing that we decent protection, he's a serviceable starter.

      Just curious, can you show us a post where a non obvious troll account said it is all Winston's fault?  I'll wait here.

      I said "QB". That doesn't mean just Winston. Go back and look at the "excuses" crowd. Every time poor OL play was brought up over the last few years, it was deemed an excuse for the QB.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      You believe Mariota could do better behind this line?

      I believe Winston can get it done behind this line. What does the QB in Tennessee have to do with this?

      You tell me. Thought you were still pining for him. Great recommendation BTW. I swear, we need a "kids table" in the forum. Maybe I'm at the "kids table".

      What kind of recommendedation are you looking for? Your OP basically says "We need to draft OL. We suck until then"...what "recommendation" are you wanting? You want posters to "recommend" that we should have drafted lineman over the last decade?

      If you cared to read:"Based on what's been seen so far, we should draft nothing but OL/DE next year!"I'll go a step further. If we want to stop sucking, invest high picks in O-line. Doesn't mean coaches need to be fired. It doesn't mean find another QB. Draft some fuggers that can block! Usually, those guys come high in the draft.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      You believe Mariota could do better behind this line?

      I believe Winston can get it done behind this line. What does the QB in Tennessee have to do with this?

      You tell me. Thought you were still pining for him. Great recommendation BTW. I swear, we need a "kids table" in the forum. Maybe I'm at the "kids table".

      What kind of recommendedation are you looking for? Your OP basically says "We need to draft OL. We suck until then"...what "recommendation" are you wanting? You want posters to "recommend" that we should have drafted lineman over the last decade?

      great post prime.  OBP has begun drafting OL highly, just like our fans wanted, and we still say there is no direction.  most fans agree it takes an elite QB to win in todays NFL, yet our fans still complain no direction.LiLo need to learn how to snap their fingers or click their heels better, thats my rec

      Yet Lilo drafted ASJ and Sims with the 2nd and 3rd round picks last season and decided to trot out Oneil Cousins, Patrick Omameh and cast of other misfits into our starting O-line.

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    • vlagatta

      Member
      Post count: 2638

      Why are we who we are?Deep-Thoughts-Hulu.jpg

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      This goes back to coaching changes and stupid coaching decisions as well.Nicks was a failure, and i saw that coming. He was a forever-saint that wanted to get paid... easy to figure out. And it set us back tremendously, in that the glazers, on down, arent going to trust huge signings on the line again. After seeing this results, maybe.Then, you had lovie, who came in saying lets hire a bunch of semi talented linemen that havent proven too much, and hope for the best. They failed too. Lovie also released zuttah without a realistic replacement. EDS has obviously has ED, because he fails to even keep himself upright. Say those guys work out.. say we have a line that consisted of nicks, zutt, mankins, collins, and maybe keeping penn or drafting either smith or ali.Even at average of expected level, that should work out fine, but because the constant coaching changes, and the BAD coaching changes, i think it became a clusterf##K of stupidity, ego, and maybe a touch of overconfidence.Witgin thw last ten years, they have ignored ol IN DRAFT. Theyve tried other options, but that was obviously met with very, ..very, bad results. Had even one worked out, besides dot, or had we kept a couple of ol that shouldve stayed, i think we would be looking at a much better line.Regardless, i believe smith and ali have a fairly bright future if they keep working on their craft. There may be hope, and at this point, im willing to accept hope.("Hope" is better than, "we're f##ked again")

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      Smith and Marpet are promising prospects but much like Winston, they have a lot to learn. Throwing them into the fire with a rookie QB is fraught with risk….extreme risk in the short term. It might be a better move long term but in the present, it’s going to be rough. This is where having adequate depth would’ve been beneficial. Free agents might work as stop gaps, especially with a rookie QB. Sure free agents are cheap and the team may not want to invest resources in short term solutions but I don’t think you can look at it that way; at least not in this situation. Protecting Winston MUST be priority #1. A guy LIKE Mathis would’ve been beneficial for a year or two.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Yet Lilo drafted ASJ and Sims with the 2nd and 3rd round picks last season and decided to trot out Oneil Cousins, Patrick Omameh and cast of other misfits into our starting O-line.

      they tried to piece together an OL with veterans initially.  they probably were keeping their fingers crossed that nicks would play, that smith and mankins and collins would work out.  they didnt.  theyve been here 2 years and used 2 2nds on OL and a first on a franchise QB. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 26

      We would be in drastically better shape if we had just kept Penn and zuttah. It is ridiculous that we have players that we cut or traded for scraps because they weren’t good enough to be bottom feeders on the Bucs, but they can, for instance be a solid pass rusher on a super bowl champ. Good thing we don't need, oh, say, a defensive end. Wait,  we do?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      I think the o-line will be much better than last year.  Bucs are about 2 OL away form fielding a consistently good unit.  However, that will come with the next draft.Right now, I am concerned about the progress of Pamphille and Edwards.  Both guys need to show progress even if they end up as depth guys.  Masifilo is an interesting project and I think the Bucs should reward his efforts by keeping him over Edwards.  Fragel/Omameh are worth keeping around (either one) to futher develop as a backup OT.The Bucs are on the right track to rebuilding the o-line.  I didn't like the lack of urgency to address OG last year or this year.  Marpet and Smith are a good start though.EDS isn't as bad people are making him out to be.  No different than Zuttah to be honest, but EDS should have the experience to fuse this OL together but he is slacking.'Mankins seems like he is 50% of what he once was.  He wasn't a disaster last year but average is pretty meh for how much he makes.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5438

      Who's turn is it next to beat this horse? Step right up, we don't have all day and the line is long.

      Personally, I've been kicking the sh*t outta this dead horse for the last few years.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      I think the o-line will be much better than last year.  Bucs are about 2 OL away form fielding a consistently good unit.  However, that will come with the next draft.Right now, I am concerned about the progress of Pamphille and Edwards.  Both guys need to show progress even if they end up as depth guys.  Masifilo is an interesting project and I think the Bucs should reward his efforts by keeping him over Edwards.  Fragel/Omameh are worth keeping around (either one) to futher develop as a backup OT.The Bucs are on the right track to rebuilding the o-line.  I didn't like the lack of urgency to address OG last year or this year.  Marpet and Smith are a good start though.EDS isn't as bad people are making him out to be.  No different than Zuttah to be honest, but EDS should have the experience to fuse this OL together but he is slacking.'Mankins seems like he is 50% of what he once was.  He wasn't a disaster last year but average is pretty meh for how much he makes.

      solid take imo

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    • tbfan4047

      Participant
      Post count: 534

      You believe Mariota could do better behind this line?

      I believe Winston can get it done behind this line. What does the QB in Tennessee have to do with this?

      You tell me. Thought you were still pining for him. Great recommendation BTW. I swear, we need a "kids table" in the forum. Maybe I'm at the "kids table".

      What kind of recommendedation are you looking for? Your OP basically says "We need to draft OL. We suck until then"...what "recommendation" are you wanting? You want posters to "recommend" that we should have drafted lineman over the last decade?

      If you cared to read:"Based on what's been seen so far, we should draft nothing but OL/DE next year!"I'll go a step further. If we want to stop sucking, invest high picks in O-line. Doesn't mean coaches need to be fired. It doesn't mean find another QB. Draft some fuggers that can block! Usually, those guys come high in the draft.

      Still doesn't address the question. You want posters to recommend that we draft OL? The same thing you stated after the OP? Or is this just a crying & moaning type of thread where there is no real discussion to be had? Honest question. Just trying to help here.

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    • tbfan4047

      Participant
      Post count: 534

      This goes back to coaching changes and stupid coaching decisions as well.Nicks was a failure, and i saw that coming. He was a forever-saint that wanted to get paid... easy to figure out. And it set us back tremendously, in that the glazers, on down, arent going to trust huge signings on the line again. After seeing this results, maybe.Then, you had lovie, who came in saying lets hire a bunch of semi talented linemen that havent proven too much, and hope for the best. They failed too. Lovie also released zuttah without a realistic replacement. EDS has obviously has ED, because he fails to even keep himself upright. Say those guys work out.. say we have a line that consisted of nicks, zutt, mankins, collins, and maybe keeping penn or drafting either smith or ali.Even at average of expected level, that should work out fine, but because the constant coaching changes, and the BAD coaching changes, i think it became a clusterf##K of stupidity, ego, and maybe a touch of overconfidence.Witgin thw last ten years, they have ignored ol IN DRAFT. Theyve tried other options, but that was obviously met with very, ..very, bad results. Had even one worked out, besides dot, or had we kept a couple of ol that shouldve stayed, i think we would be looking at a much better line.Regardless, i believe smith and ali have a fairly bright future if they keep working on their craft. There may be hope, and at this point, im willing to accept hope.("Hope" is better than, "we're f##ked again")

      What was the sign that pre-injury Nicks was going to be  a failure?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      This goes back to coaching changes and stupid coaching decisions as well.Nicks was a failure, and i saw that coming. He was a forever-saint that wanted to get paid... easy to figure out. And it set us back tremendously, in that the glazers, on down, arent going to trust huge signings on the line again. After seeing this results, maybe.Then, you had lovie, who came in saying lets hire a bunch of semi talented linemen that havent proven too much, and hope for the best. They failed too. Lovie also released zuttah without a realistic replacement. EDS has obviously has ED, because he fails to even keep himself upright. Say those guys work out.. say we have a line that consisted of nicks, zutt, mankins, collins, and maybe keeping penn or drafting either smith or ali.Even at average of expected level, that should work out fine, but because the constant coaching changes, and the BAD coaching changes, i think it became a clusterf##K of stupidity, ego, and maybe a touch of overconfidence.Witgin thw last ten years, they have ignored ol IN DRAFT. Theyve tried other options, but that was obviously met with very, ..very, bad results. Had even one worked out, besides dot, or had we kept a couple of ol that shouldve stayed, i think we would be looking at a much better line.Regardless, i believe smith and ali have a fairly bright future if they keep working on their craft. There may be hope, and at this point, im willing to accept hope.("Hope" is better than, "we're f##ked again")

      What was the sign that pre-injury Nicks was going to be  a failure?

      A few things i noticed.He wouldnt give any info on the saints. None. Heck, even revis was polite enough to share info, and SAID he would. Millions of bucks, his BIG check, and he cant do THAT? Loyalties man, loyalties.He also came from a system that makes linemen look better than they are. They only have to hold the line as long as brees has the ball, and thats the funny thing, brees has the quickest release of any nfl qb after the snap... basic math. He has to hold the line for brees for three to five seconds, but for freeman, more like four to seven seconds. Kind of put a damper on the signing from the get go, knowing that tidbit.Then, the guy was sitting out a lot in practice. Yeah, they said it was that he had to get back into football shape, and that he had small injury tweeks which caused it, but it seemed timely to me.When there was a time to cut or keep him going into his last days here, he made sure he looked like he was ready, just to get an incentive bonus, then ...omg, my toe!He said before he left them that he would always be a saint, literally. That he loved every guy on that team.Just saying, it pointed towards an alternative other than just winning with the bucs. His heart was never here, and i got that vibe from him. I have that same feeling about vj (its all bussiness, not personal to him), mankins (obviously got cast here), dotson (he was a bit demanding about money for a bit. Especially in a bad time for the bucs), and EDS (his talk sounds weak to me, almost fake).Its all based on suspicion. Of course its not always right, mind you, but if you truly listen, and understand that words mean things, you can kind of read between the lines a bit. Pretty much with any aspect of your life.I get things wrong a lot of times, not going to deny it (e.g. manziel love, revis hype, clayborn, etc), but i flat out nailed nicks as a bad signing after a few views of his play, and hearing some of his bs. It actually proves to be the case...yippie? (Still would rather have him playing well).

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    • tbfan4047

      Participant
      Post count: 534

      Do you really know what MRSA is? Nicks didn’t fake that injury and subsequent infection though that’s what it seems like you’re insinuating.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Why do we suck?Between 2008-2014, here's our OL draft picks:2008:  Zuttah (3)2009:  Fulton (5)2014:  Edwards (5)2014:  Pamphile (5)So, that's seven seasons, drafts without capitalizing on the draft to build quality OL depth. Free agency is NOT the way to build a quality offensive line. We've seen it. We've witnessed it first hand. We're still paying for that decision today. You can point to crappy drafting all you want but IMO, this critical and inexcusable course of action is the single biggest reason for our offensive woes. At least with Smith and Marpet, we're now making an effort to fix this but not sure how that will translate to success THIS season.

      I have been banging on the table for drafting OL for years. This is why we suck on offense. You are right on, drafting OL is going to make us a better team, but those results are not going to be instant. We are looking at a good 2-3 years for This OL to be in good order.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      Do you really know what MRSA is? Nicks didn't fake that injury and subsequent infection though that's what it seems like you're insinuating.

      Might have been. We only know that tynes and banks wrrent faking. Nothing about nicks made me feel like he was 100% NOT faking.Now, im not really saying he did, but i am saying he didnt want to be here anyway, and that his heart wasnt really in the game anynore anyway.And, you do understand how condescending you sound?If you like, ill go and look up my old posts to try and convince you, since youre so important to question me. Those guys said the same crap, and im about to call them out too.The question(s) might be to you, do YOU know for a 100%, without any doubt, that it wasnt all an excuse? You absolutely sure that one pic of his toe, is really him?Didnt think so, and im saying the same. I had a feeling when he got here. I wasnt 100% sure either, but i was super skeptical.Mind you, i said, "when he signed" too, so im not worried about the strain of mrsa, or his big toe injury. That was pre buc staphfest.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 855

      Nicks was damn good for us when he was healthy. Dominant run blocker at POA and didn’t get beat much in pass pro. I think you are probably right in thinking that his heart wasn’t into the game anymore.

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    • johnd

      Participant
      Post count: 333

      Good old Hayseed.  Still making excuses and whining I see.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Nicks reminds me of our 2nd round pick this year DSmith. Good college LT, not going to be an NFL LT, but has lots of potential at guard. What are we waiting for? Make a deal for a LT and slide DSmith inside. It’s our only hope in hell of salvaging this season.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2608

      Nicks had to retire at 29 years old. He did not fake MRSA. There’s literally zero chance that happened, zero chance that reports were out that he had MRSA and the Bucs weren’t yelling denials from the rooftops.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 648

      only 2 of our 5 olineman in 2002 were drafted by the bucs.. one being kenyatta walker.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1828

      this is a great thread OP. Very disturbing when put down in black and white like that.This franchise is obsessed with drafting RBs & LBs while ignoring the offensive line. It's time to end the madness and start drafting the trenches.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      Recommendations, youngone? You never seem to have any.

      Scotch

      LoL

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2697

      If they would have drafted OLs and Dls, you b!tches would be crying about not drafting QBs, WRs, and RB’s

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    • bucbach234

      Participant
      Post count: 67

      Like most everyone said, it’s pretty obvious that not drafting oline for so long is a huge problem. I’m no GM or expert but my personal opinion about drafting is that I would draft at least 1 offensive lineman and 1 defensive lineman every draft in the early to mid rounds. Use the other five picks on skill players. I think, offensive linemen especially,picked after the fourth are better off being UDFA. There’s a better chance on hitting on a skill player later on the draft. Having played oline myself in high school and college, I may be biased but I believe a team can go far with string line play on both sides. It’s a luxury when you can rush four on defense and man protect on offense. It opens up the playbook that much more and increases the success of blitzing when the four down linemen can get to the quarterback on their own. LINEMEN IS THE KEY TO SUCCESS

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5954

      If they would have drafted OLs and Dls, you b!tches would be crying about not drafting QBs, WRs, and RB's

      This is true.  Had we neglected the offensive skill positions in the draft over a long period of time and then found ourselves with vastly substandard offensive skill positions, there would be great bitching from our fans.  Which seems perfectly reasonable to me. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      If a team consistently choose to draft skill positions over trenches they deserve to lose a lot of football games.The Super Bowl squad OL wasn't really good and only gelled late in the season.  Failure to draft OL carried on well after the Super Bowl run. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Why do we suck?Between 2008-2014, here's our OL draft picks:2008:  Zuttah (3)2009:  Fulton (5)2014:  Edwards (5)2014:  Pamphile (5)So, that's seven seasons, drafts without capitalizing on the draft to build quality OL depth.

      all the more reason to fire L&L!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      This franchise is obsessed with drafting RBs & LBs while ignoring the offensive line. It's time to end the madness and start drafting the trenches.

      end the madness?  what time warp are you in?  leave the past, come to the present.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      You believe Mariota could do better behind this line?

      I believe Winston can get it done behind this line. What does the QB in Tennessee have to do with this?

      You tell me. Thought you were still pining for him. Great recommendation BTW. I swear, we need a "kids table" in the forum. Maybe I'm at the "kids table".

      What kind of recommendedation are you looking for? Your OP basically says "We need to draft OL. We suck until then"...what "recommendation" are you wanting? You want posters to "recommend" that we should have drafted lineman over the last decade?

      If you cared to read:"Based on what's been seen so far, we should draft nothing but OL/DE next year!"I'll go a step further. If we want to stop sucking, invest high picks in O-line. Doesn't mean coaches need to be fired. It doesn't mean find another QB. Draft some fuggers that can block! Usually, those guys come high in the draft.

      Still doesn't address the question. You want posters to recommend that we draft OL? The same thing you stated after the OP? Or is this just a crying & moaning type of thread where there is no real discussion to be had? Honest question. Just trying to help here.

      I want posters to acknowledge that they can bitch and moan about QB play all they want but it's never going to be good until the team can fix the offensive line. I'm pointing out that the offensive line has been neglected for years and we're paying for it now. Smith/Marpet were a step in the right direction but the line will still be the limiting factor moving forward, not our QB.

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      I want posters to acknowledge that they can (censored) and moan about QB play all they want but it's never going to be good until the team can fix the offensive line. I'm pointing out that the offensive line has been neglected for years and we're paying for it now. Smith/Marpet were a step in the right direction but the line will still be the limiting factor moving forward, not our QB.

      i want posters to know they can say, good job LiLo, thank you for drafting OL highly like so many have wanted.  i want posters to know that because dominik neglected the OL for years that we dont have to complain about LiLo. ( but thats kinda funny to say because half our posters think our OL was amazing with penn and zuttah)  i want posters to know that no one knows what are limiting factors will be moving forward.  a poster might think he knows, but he doesnt.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      I want posters to acknowledge that they can (censored) and moan about QB play all they want but it's never going to be good until the team can fix the offensive line. I'm pointing out that the offensive line has been neglected for years and we're paying for it now. Smith/Marpet were a step in the right direction but the line will still be the limiting factor moving forward, not our QB.

      i want posters to know they can say, good job LiLo, thank you for drafting OL highly like so many have wanted.  i want posters to know that because dominik neglected the OL for years that we dont have to complain about LiLo. ( but thats kinda funny to say because half our posters think our OL was amazing with penn and zuttah)  i want posters to know that no one knows what are limiting factors will be moving forward.  a poster might think he knows, but he doesnt.

      Sounds like you think very highly of Lovie and Licht.  Great.  I'm sure you've said but what's our record this year?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      Sounds like you think very highly of Lovie and Licht.  Great.  I'm sure you've said but what's our record this year?

      if i knew that id be living in vegas.i expect a season around .500 or better and in the playoff hunt.  but that also happens to be my prediction every year.

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    • tbfan4047

      Participant
      Post count: 534

      Nicks had to retire at 29 years old. He did not fake MRSA. There's literally zero chance that happened, zero chance that reports were out that he had MRSA and the Bucs weren't yelling denials from the rooftops.

      But Benchwarmer feels in his gut that it was all an elaborate fake to end Nicks career and help the Saints. Two-fer!!! So you must be wrong.

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    • tbfan4047

      Participant
      Post count: 534

      You believe Mariota could do better behind this line?

      I believe Winston can get it done behind this line. What does the QB in Tennessee have to do with this?

      You tell me. Thought you were still pining for him. Great recommendation BTW. I swear, we need a "kids table" in the forum. Maybe I'm at the "kids table".

      What kind of recommendedation are you looking for? Your OP basically says "We need to draft OL. We suck until then"...what "recommendation" are you wanting? You want posters to "recommend" that we should have drafted lineman over the last decade?

      If you cared to read:"Based on what's been seen so far, we should draft nothing but OL/DE next year!"I'll go a step further. If we want to stop sucking, invest high picks in O-line. Doesn't mean coaches need to be fired. It doesn't mean find another QB. Draft some fuggers that can block! Usually, those guys come high in the draft.

      Still doesn't address the question. You want posters to recommend that we draft OL? The same thing you stated after the OP? Or is this just a crying & moaning type of thread where there is no real discussion to be had? Honest question. Just trying to help here.

      I want posters to acknowledge that they can (censored) and moan about QB play all they want but it's never going to be good until the team can fix the offensive line. I'm pointing out that the offensive line has been neglected for years and we're paying for it now. Smith/Marpet were a step in the right direction but the line will still be the limiting factor moving forward, not our QB.

      All fair points. I agree with you 100%. QB play does matter though. A great line with Glennon would be an ok team. A great line with Winston is a perennial playoff team IMO.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      Sounds like you think very highly of Lovie and Licht.  Great.  I'm sure you've said but what's our record this year?

      if i knew that id be living in vegas.i expect a season around .500 or better and in the playoff hunt.  but that also happens to be my prediction every year.

      Ok.  What was your prediction last year?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 2967

      GameTime, you can’t seriously believe that this offensive line is just going to “turn it on” in the regular season. Mankins and EDS are not going to get better. I think steady/average might be their ceiling at this point. Smith and Marpet have a ways to go. Our RT situation is extremely sketchy. If we had a very good, veteran QB, then 8-8 might be a possibility. I like Jameis but he's not going to be capable of learning to play the pro game while dealing with a below average offensive line and still make us playoff contenders. I've been more than an optimist over the years but after seeing the sh!t show that is our o-line, I've just about given up hope that "this will be the year". So sick of seeing our offensive problems continuing year after year after year. It's been 30+ years of the same sputtering crap.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 215

      We are still a couple drafts away from having a good Oline. All we can do is pray that The Good Lord spares Jamies from almost certain death. Not 100% on board with OP, but we are who we are.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      GameTime, you can't seriously believe that this offensive line is just going to "turn it on" in the regular season. Mankins and EDS are not going to get better. I think steady/average might be their ceiling at this point. Smith and Marpet have a ways to go. Our RT situation is extremely sketchy. If we had a very good, veteran QB, then 8-8 might be a possibility. I like Jameis but he's not going to be capable of learning to play the pro game while dealing with a below average offensive line and still make us playoff contenders. I've been more than an optimist over the years but after seeing the sh!t show that is our o-line, I've just about given up hope that "this will be the year". So sick of seeing our offensive problems continuing year after year after year. It's been 30+ years of the same sputtering crap.

      i certainly think they can be steady/average.  i think that would be great.  i dont expect a 10ft wall around the QB with 10 seconds every pass.  i dont expect macksized holes for a RB to go through.  i think thats the biggest thing, overall expectations of football.didnt mean to take it out on you with the last post.  just fed up with so many posters complaining that we have never addressed the OL. now its that we didnt address it the way they wanted, or it will take years for it to take effect.  i think they are still playing football at the end of the day, and cream will rise.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      *Even though Winston is a rookie is appears he is releasing the ball a lot quicker than Glennon or McCown.  And that is with Winston’s funky throwing motion.*Smith and Marpet have a lot of room for growth.  *EDS isn't the problem.  Mankins is the problem if he can't eve play NFL average.*Koetter is well known for his ability to game plan around what talent he has for offense.  Are we a run oriented or pass oriented offense? No one knows except Koetter. He will also plan around the blocking scheme and sliding protection depending on how the tackles or interior OL are playing.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3316

      If we go 8-8 I will gladly call Lovie a good coach.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1098

      I think we’re going to see a similar Atlanta effect here. A porous O-Line forces the offense to constantly be behind in down and distance forcing throws on early downs. Unfortunately I predict a lot of attempts for Winston this year a la Ryan or Luck his rookie season, I'm not saying the success for sure but the tendencies for sure. I don't think we have enough talent on the D-Line either that we will frequently find ourselves playing from ahead either. I'm hoping for a Teddy Bridgewater growth from Winston and continued addressing of the O-Line against next year. Mankins won't start on this team next year.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 79

      I think we're going to see a similar Atlanta effect here. A porous O-Line forces the offense to constantly be behind in down and distance forcing throws on early downs. Unfortunately I predict a lot of attempts for Winston this year a la Ryan or Luck his rookie season, I'm not saying the success for sure but the tendencies for sure. I don't think we have enough talent on the D-Line either that we will frequently find ourselves playing from ahead either. I'm hoping for a Teddy Bridgewater growth from Winston and continued addressing of the O-Line against next year. Mankins won't start on this team next year.

      This is my fear. Other teams will get to our QB, but we won’t get to theirs.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4755

      Atlanta’s OL was bad last year, but they produced anyway. Of course they have Matt Ryan and our OL is on a completely different level of suck than Atlanta’s.Also, Josh McCown played lights out 2 years ago behind a bad OL. It stood to reason that he would be good here in spite of our OL......nope. Our OL is on a completely different level of suckage. Our OL is going to hold us back big time once again.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 5188

      Can’t be a pro pocket QB if you don’t have a pocket to throw from. That 2.7 seconds is coming awfully fast. And in Tampa, it is more like 2 seconds. Tighten that release Jameis, just to protect yourself from Lovies ignorance!

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    • billym

      Participant
      Post count: 3348

      Why do we suck?Between 2008-2014, here's our OL draft picks:2008:  Zuttah (3)2009:  Fulton (5)2014:  Edwards (5)2014:  Pamphile (5)So, that's seven seasons, drafts without capitalizing on the draft to build quality OL depth. Free agency is NOT the way to build a quality offensive line. We've seen it. We've witnessed it first hand. We're still paying for that decision today. You can point to crappy drafting all you want but IMO, this critical and inexcusable course of action is the single biggest reason for our offensive woes. At least with Smith and Marpet, we're now making an effort to fix this but not sure how that will translate to success THIS season.

      Zut had a good game the other night I read somewhere.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8983

      I have some positives id like to share. Maybe some of you can come down off the skyway?1. Koetter HAS NOT shared his gameplan in PS. What we have seen isnt what koetters offense is like, and even winston said that they arent trying to give up info on the offense. Smart planning, and something ive witnessed lovie do before in his pro career. The less real tape, the better.2. Get real. Imvho, they have let winston and co gain rep time as safely as possible, while trying to slow the game down to watch what is going on. The idea isnt to win a meaningless ps game, but to teach all these rookies without chalking up losses that do matter. They could play for real, but it wouldnt teach them what they need to know before regular season.3. History.Lovie has a unique way with dealing with losing, he wins. Lovie has enjoyed an up and down career, with each bad year being followed up by a better/good one the following year. He went 9 wins with the bears, two wins with the bucs, and now, ...we hope those historical stats kick in.4. Kwon, ali, jameis, evans, smith and marpit.These guys have potential. Then you add in names like mccoy, david, and possibly verner and banks who are already somewhat used to the nfl now. Within a year, or within hopefully this year, they should gel and grow with eachother.5. Its just preseason.Many teams faied miserably in preseason to go on to playoffs. Some, superbowls. There is no despiration, passion, or worries in a preseason game, except by the players in the depth chart looking to stay, usually 2nd or third string. I find it tough to look at preseason as much of a barometer, because of the lack of a plethora of normal in-game attitudes, situations, and it also lacks account for players (like winston, for example), that seem to get better as the game continues. Game one tells me more about this team than game three of preseason does.

      Please wait…

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