Monday, February 17, 2020

Winston anyone?

Viewing 11 posts - 16 through 26 (of 26 total)
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  • #1135819
    White Tiger
    Participant

    Facts and excuses are two different things. Clearly, something that eludes you.

    You mentioned that Mariota has “consistently improved every year, under multiple HC’s”.”

    Again, FACTS show that isn’t the case. Unless, you’re a believer that in a QB’s third year, that throwing more INT’s than TD’s, is “consistent improvement”. Or, that in a 4th year (which happens to be the most explosive offensive year in the history of the league), that carrying a sub-200 YPG and a sub-1 TD per game average is improvement or “franchise QB” material.

    And, while you’re going on and on about how the Titans are talking about potential playoffs this year; please don’t forget the fragile one is a jaw-dropping 3-6 as a starter. So, perhaps you’d like to put down the Kool-Aid with your implication that he is somehow responsible for it.

    Or, like last year, how you’re essentially bragging about Mariota leading the Titans to the playoffs. Please explain how a QB who throws more picks than TD’s, has half a dozen games or so of less than 200 yards passing, and who averaged less than 1 passing TD per game, “lead” a team to the playoffs. Definitely curious to hear that one.

    So, yeah, “low football acumen” looks like it fits the bill perfectly with you.

    Nothing wrong with that.

    Well, lets see:

    On Monday Night, Marriota was 22/23 for 303 yds and 2 TD’s against one of the best defenses in the NFL. Superiority advantage: Marriota

    In the 10 previous games he’s been available to his team this season Marriota has thrown for 1,886 yds, 9 TD’s against 6 INT’s – and 70.3% Completion Percentage. For the season. Superiority advantage: Marriota.

    Marriota has actually been available for 52 games and produced 11,362 yds, 67 TD’s against only 40 INT’s and holds a career completion percentage rating of 63.1%.Superiority Advantage: Marriota

    On Sunday, Winston was 29/38 for 312 yds and 2 TD’s against one of the worst defenses in the NFL.

    In the 6 previous games he’s has been available to his team this season Winston has thrown for 1,692 yds, 10 TD’s against 11 INT’s – and holds a 67.8% Completion Percentage for this season.

    Winston has actually only been available for 51 games (one less than Marriota), producing 13,328 yds, 79 TD’s against 55 INT’s and holds a career completion percentage rating of 61.6%.

    I’m pretty sure this illustrates some ‘low football acumen’…but like Inygo Montoya says… I do not think it means what you think it means…

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    #1135843
    DonkeyHunter
    Participant

    Well, lets see:

    On Monday Night, Marriota was 22/23 for 303 yds and 2 TD’s against one of the best defenses in the NFL. <strong class=”gdbbx-bbcode-bold”>Superiority advantage: Marriota

    In a game that they lost by 17 points. Ironically enough, 17 points also happened to be the exact same amount of points the Mariota offense put up. Pretty much par for the course, considering Mariota’s offensive prowess has the Titans ranked 29th in the NFL in scoring. Nice to see Marcus throw for over 300 yards for a change, it’s a rarity for him, considering he’s a dink-dunk, check down guy.

    In the 10 previous games he’s been available to his team this season Marriota has thrown for 1,886 yds, 9 TD’s against 6 INT’s – and 70.3% Completion Percentage. For the season. <strong class=”gdbbx-bbcode-bold”>Superiority advantage: Marriota.

    Well, in the 10 previous games Winston has been available to the team, he’s thrown for 3,006 yards, 17 TD’s against 16 INT’s – and 69% completion percentage. So, while Mariota has thrown less picks and has a slightly higher completion percentage; the ratings are nearly the same, Winston’s QBR is significantly higher, and obviously his yardage and TD numbers are in a different league than Mariota.

    Also, when you take a look at Intended Air Yards and Aggressiveness Percentage, it’s not even close. Winston pushes the ball downfield, throws into tighter windows, and doesn’t play the meager, timid, game managing style that Mariota does.

    Marriota has actually been available for 52 games and produced 11,362 yds, 67 TD’s against only 40 INT’s and holds a career completion percentage rating of 63.1%.<strong class=”gdbbx-bbcode-bold”>Superiority Advantage: Marriota

    Winston has actually only been available for 5<strong class=”gdbbx-bbcode-bold”>1 games (one less than Marriota), producing 13,328 yds, 79 TD’s against 55 INT’s and holds a career completion percentage rating of 61.6%.

    So, in less games, Winston has thrown more TD’s and more yards; but has thrown more picks and has a slightly less completion percentage. Not shocking, for the very same FACTS that I mentioned above. Though it’s odd that Mariota is the only one who finished a season with more picks than scores. Hard to do for a guy who dinks and dunks all over the place.

    Winston pushes the ball down field. He is an aggressive QB. He hasn’t had the luxury of having an efficient (in one case elite) running game 3 out of his 4 years. He hasn’t had the luxury of having an efficient (in one case elite) defense in 3 out of his 4 years.

    You put Mariota in this offense over the last 4 years, and we’d be close to dead last in every offensive category.

    Not saying either is elite. Not saying either is without fault. But, Mariota is not a better QB.

    I’m pretty sure this illustrates some ‘low football acumen’…but like Inygo Montoya says… <em class=”gdbbx-bbcode-italic”>I do not think it means what you think it means…

    It sure does. I was going to say you’re being an idiot; but I simply sat back, let you type, and remove all doubt.

     

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    #1135885
    White Tiger
    Participant

    Well, idiocy is on display everyday. I surely have displayed idiocy on more than one occasion, but Just because I challenge your conclusion with facts, while you retort with feelz, lets one of two camps line up behind our two arguments.

    See, you can influence what others think, but our arguments determine who, or even “if,” either of us is actually an idiot. I’m content to let each camp determine whomever they think makes the best argument.

    It’s why I made sure to include some facts to challenge your feelz.

    The facts I posted are from http://www.pro-football-reference.com. Anyone can look them up. You clearly don’t like the facts I provided and you probably really don’t want any to investigate – preferring to have them take your word for it, or you’ll type really hard on your keyboard. I really don’t care about all that…I’m more intent on folks drawing their own conclusions.

    And just to reiterate – the FACTS are: Winston who has thrown more INT’s, has completed fewer seasons/been less available for his teammates, and while he’s thrown more passes/yards – he’s been MUCH LESS accurate. Winston has thrown for 12 more TD’s, but 15 more INT’s…and those have put his suspect defense into holes he can’t get them out of…

    You can be angry about everyone now knowing that, and you can be angry with the rest of us because our franchise QB ain’t acting too franchise-y on, or off the field.

    It’s ok, you’re a homer, nothing wrong with being a homer…guess what, I’m not telling any on this board anything they don’t already know…

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    #1135907
    DonkeyHunter
    Participant

    Well, idiocy is on display everyday. I surely have displayed idiocy on more than one occasion, but Just because I challenge your conclusion with facts, while you retort with feelz, 

    Well, I didn’t think you’d jump right out and use yourself as a shining example for your opening sentence. But, by all means…

    The <strong class=”gdbbx-bbcode-bold”>facts I posted are from http://www.pro-football-reference.com. Anyone can look them up. You clearly don’t like the facts I provided and you probably <em class=”gdbbx-bbcode-italic”>really don’t want any to investigate – preferring to have them take your word for it, or you’ll type really hard on your keyboard. I really don’t care about all that…I’m more intent on folks drawing their own conclusions.

    The irony is that is the EXACT same website I used!

    So, while you babble on and on about me not wanting to investigate and other dribble to continue to divert; but every fact (or feelz, as you like to refer to them when they go against your agenda) we’re all drawn from the very same site you used.

    No need to type really hard. Though, I did also use NextGen Stats from NFL.com (let me know if you need a link, kiddo). I know, I know. They use weird terms like intended air yards, aggressiveness, and other whacky lingo. But, you should look it up.

    It’s to help casuals like you, who think a QB who goes 8-10 checking down to RB’s and throwing 3 yard hitch routes is more accurate than a guy who goes 6-10 throwing intermediate routes and squeezing the ball into tight windows.

    Give it a look some time. They even have a neat glossary for those weird words.

    And just to reiterate – the FACTS are: Winston who has thrown more INT’s, has completed fewer seasons/been less available for his teammates, and while he’s thrown more passes/yards – he’s been MUCH <em class=”gdbbx-bbcode-italic”>LESS accurate.

    So, a 1.5% differential in completion percentage (specifically when one had thrown over 200 more passes than the other) is MUCH LESS accurate? Again, I would expect there to be a minor difference when one QB is averaging significantly more in the Air Yards to Sticks, Intended Air Yards, Completed Air Yards, Aggressiveness, etc.

    Winston has thrown for 12 more TD’s, but 15 more INT’s…and those have put his suspect defense into holes he can’t get them out of…

     

    Never argued his turnovers being detrimental to the team’s success. Especially one with a suspect defense. Guess that’s how the Titans made the playoffs last year. Not sure it was riding on the shoulders of a QB who threw more INT’s than TD’s.

    You can be angry about everyone now knowing that, and you can be angry with the rest of us because our franchise QB ain’t acting too franchise-y on, or off the field.

     

    Angry? Hardly.

    Disappointed that Winston hasn’t progressed the way we were hoping? Of course.

    It’s ok, you’re a homer, nothing wrong with being a homer…guess what, I’m not telling any on this board anything they don’t already know…

    Lol. Homer. You’re cute.

    I get it. You’re a big Gruden fan. You’re still a little bummed that you couldn’t dust off the jean shorts (meh…they were probably never retired…disregard), paint your face, throw on the red wig, and growl and grimace like your favorite HC.

    You feel robbed that you don’t get to stand in awe of multiple pre-snap shifts, elaborate play verbiage (Spider 2 Y Duck Fart) for 4-yard curl routes to the #2 tight end. All while being ranked towards the bottom of the league in offensive scoring.

    And, you must feel like a foreigner watching all these offenses moving the ball at will and lighting up scoreboards (sit down Oakland and Tennessee) every Sunday.

    I’ll let you in on a little secret. It’s going to continue.

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    #1135925
    White Tiger
    Participant

    True, yours is a truly fascinating example of a type of football acumen. In fact, you’re so astute, you actually see things his own team hasn’t seen yet…namely the maturity level to make them rush to re-sign their “franchise”. In fact, the team, his coaches, and the admin are no longer seeing what you’re seeing.

    Sure, they’ll re-sign him, but it’s not the re-up you or anyone on your side expected 4 years ago..the front office is less enthusiastic, which will have a cost and Jameis Winston knows it. The “overrated” word’s even been tossed around lately…(game agains the 2 win 9ers not withstanding…or is it?)

    It’s simple, Marriota’s more accurate, doesn’t take himself off the field – off the field, and throws the ball to guys with his same Jersey more often than Winston. Even though you assert that Marriota would have been killed behind this line – Marriota had an even worse offensive line, head coach, and defense. For those who claimed his style of play would keep him off the field He’s played in one more game than Winston in the same time period.

    We started this conversation by you asserting Winston was the clearly superior QB – you’ve ended it by admitting that Marriota is…I accept your surrender.

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    #1137242
    GottaJaboo
    Blocked

    Lolz at Mariota fan. You should really find another sport. He’s beyond worthless. He was 60 for 60 last Sunday and still lost by more than a score. You know why? He’s throwing two yard passes like a sandlot pussy. You Mariota fans should get together and start a new league where scoring doesn’t matter.

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    GoldsonAges on 2nd round pick, Safety, Justin Evans, out of Texas A&M - "coaching can’t fix this".

    #1137243
    GottaJaboo
    Blocked

    Also, Lolz at White Tiger. Welcome to the HOF Board Schiano.

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    GoldsonAges on 2nd round pick, Safety, Justin Evans, out of Texas A&M - "coaching can’t fix this".

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by GottaJaboo.
    #1139211
    tog
    Participant

    Comical that some people still think that Mariota is a superior QB.

    I think what’s a bit funny about reading your exchange with White Tiger (which I enjoyed haha), is that at the end of the day it’s an argument over Kraft dinner.

    Both QBs have been massive disappointments.

    Personally, as of right now I’d take Mariota but that’s not a hill I’d die on. You’re taking a mediocre QB with “high” floor and low ceiling or a low floor high ceiling QB.

    You’re trading advantages too. Mariota plays in a weaker division and has had a better OL, run game, and defense. Winston has had a much better coaching staff, weapons, and overall offense. In terms of QB performance (not team performance) Winston is in clearly the better situation but again, its not a huge difference.

    What actually really surprised me in reading this discussion is how SIMILAR their stats are. I can’t believe Mariota has more starts (by 1). Winston’s TD% is a little better but INT% worse. Their QBR, Y/A, Y/C, etc. are all very similar. Their Adjusted Y/A is exactly the same which means that, even though Winston’s yards are higher, they are getting the same efficiency from their passing game. Its not a meaningful stat, but I’m even surprised Mariota has more Game Winning Drives and 4thQ Comebacks.

    And both PFR and FO rank Winston & Mariota as average QBs. In fact, both PFR’s Advanced Passing and Average Value are almost the same. At CAV Winston is 35 and Mariota 34.

    THAT is both depressing and comical. More Kraft dinner!

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    #1140432
    White Tiger
    Participant

    I’ve been around a long time, I come back to bask in the glow of my astute positions from long ago (and mostly because it appears the classless mod who kept deleting my laser-focused/eviscerating posts about what we had to look forward to if we drafted Fameis – every time he’d lose a debate – is no longer around).

    Anyone who remembers my informed flaying of young jaboo BEFORE we drafted him…knows my opinion of him pales only slightly in comparison to what I thought of that fake-principled, second-tier college coach…from New Jersey.

    Please find another epithet upon which to skewer me…call me Boid, Uncle Stan, or Hate…but don’t liken me to Schian-no defense…

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    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by White Tiger.
    #1140436
    White Tiger
    Participant

    Interesting and astute Tog – I like this – it uses data to prove a point. We can still hang onto our bravado…but only if we accept the mediocrity.

    I would flip the argument a bit – while I believe Marriota is in fact a victim of a stubborn NFL climate – trapped into a WCO that forces him to dink/dunk his way down the field…I believe Jameis is in the EXACT offense that fits his talents. the problem is Fameis isn’t mature enough to execute his offense efficiently. His arm is too big, and he still thinks he can hit a homer on EVERY play. Inability to maintain focus/patience = Jameis real failure as a NFL QB.

    Having to stop and reflect on what TOG revealed in his post – I have come to the conclusion that wouldn’t it be fun to see Marriota in a more wide-open/spread attack (similar to what Jared Goff gets to run)…while at the same time…maybe teach Jameis patience by forcing him into an offense that is WCO-heavy (ala, like the one Brad “The Bull” Johnson executed all the way to the Super Bowl)!?

    One thing I disagree with is the strength assigned to the NFC South…the NFC South and AFC South are pretty even. No one wants to play Houston or Indy right about now…there is only one team in the NFC South that other NFL teams angling for the playoffs would consider “scary”.

    From our keyboards to the OC’s ears….

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    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by White Tiger.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by White Tiger.
    #1147220
    ONEBIGDADDY
    Participant

    Whenever I hear of people using turnovers a a key component of an QB rating I have to ask how many of the turnovers were in fact tip balls from receivers and also routes not ran correctly? Just a thought. Winston does need to keep the heat drawn up on him because one more screw up and he’s toast. JMHO.

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