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    • yuccaneers

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      Post count: 441

      Based on what the organization did to add potential starters to what the combination of Smith and Licht felt were better schematic fits during free agency the team has positioned its self to draft BVA (Best Value Available) across the board – the team lacks depth at several critical positions; Receiver, Offensive Line, Linebacker, and Defensive line.Potentially if one of the prospects that many deem elite is not there the best bet for the team might be trading back and acquiring extra picks in a deep draft class...With that in mind I have decided to make a mock where the team trades down to the middle of the first picking up a second rounder and a fourth rounder.1. DE/LB Anthony Barr2. C/G Marcus Martin2. QB Jimmy Garoppolo3. WR Donte Moncrief 4. OT Cameron Fleming5. DT Caraun Reid6. LB Lamin Barrow7. WR Robert Herron

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9891

      Interesting. No WR until later

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1091

      Vin – for me winning always starts up front in the trenches on both sides of the football adding pieces to both lines is paramount – winning starts up front. Once both lines are fixed and adequately manned its easier to find other pieces to build around.With the additions of the following players during free agency L&L seemingly have the same mind set - however the depth is pitiful and needs to be addressed.DE Michael JohnsonDT Clinton McDonaldLT Anthony CollinsC EDSSo adding a T like Fleming who can play either right or left gives the team depth and a player that has the chance to develop adding C/G Martin shores up the interior and gives the team insurance at LG if Nicks doesnt rebound.Adding to scheme fits along the D-line in Barr who is a natural edge rush and has the speed and quickness to bend the edge is needed - adding a player like Reid who has natural pass rush skills and can learn behind McCoy adds value and another rotational guy.This is the deepest draft class in recent history at receiver  - no reason to panic if you dont get Watkins or Evans the next tier are all largely grouped together depending on scheme fit and your personal flavor for what you want in a  receiver.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Interesting. No WR until later

      Un-possible!!!Yuc, I'd like to see your top 6 picks.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 310

      Yucc; I don’t see any team giving up that much in a trade.  All the more reason to stay at spot 7 and pick BPA rated at OL,DL,WR, LB,QB; reasonable tie goes with first priority need.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 861

      Like it>

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1091

      Hate – here is how I have it playing out….1. Houston- Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina 2. St. Louis - Jake Matthews, OT, Texas A&M3. Jacksonville - Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M4. Cleveland- Blake Bortles, QB, Central Florida5. Oakland - Sammy Watkins, WR, Clemson  6. Atlanta- Greg Robinson, OT, AuburnThat leaves such possibilities as WR Mike Evans, LB Khalil Mack, and QB Teddy Bridgewater potentially available at pick seven based on the consensus when you look at the so called experts big boards - now of course it is going to undoubtedly shake out any number of ways but if the team can move down in the 12-15 range and pick up and extra second and fourth rounder for moving down between 5-8 spots I think that they might seriously consider it.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 310

      Mine is: 1. Clowney, 2. Robinson, 3. Mathews, 4. Watkins, 5. Evans, 6. Mack, 7. Donald, 8. Bortles (remember the UCF connection). 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 9276

      Hate - here is how I have it playing out....1. Houston- Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina 2. St. Louis - Jake Matthews, OT, Texas A&M3. Jacksonville - Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M4. Cleveland- Blake Bortles, QB, Central Florida5. Oakland - Sammy Watkins, WR, Clemson  6. Atlanta- Greg Robinson, OT, AuburnThat leaves such possibilities as WR Mike Evans, LB Khalil Mack, and QB Teddy Bridgewater potentially available at pick seven based on the consensus when you look at the so called experts big boards - now of course it is going to undoubtedly shake out any number of ways but if the team can move down in the 12-15 range and pick up and extra second and fourth rounder for moving down between 5-8 spots I think that they might seriously consider it.

      I just can't pass on Evans for Barr and a few other mediocre players.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 310

      What team in spots 12-15 would give up a 2nd and 4th to move 5-8 spots?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      $64,000 question Horse but my guess is none.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10

      According to a Draft Value Trade Chart I’ve seen, which I understand is similar to a chart NFL teams use, this would almost be a perfect trade value-wise. The Bucs #7 pick has been given a value of 1500 points. Take Dallas, for example, which drafts at #16. Their pick is worth 1000 points. So if the Bucs swapped first round picks with them, the Bucs would be in the hole by 500 points. Dallas’ second round pick, #48,  has a value of 430 points leaving the Bucs still down by 70 points. Dallas’ 4th round pick, 119, has a value of 56 points. That would still leave the Bucs short by 14 points. That could be covered with a 6th round pick, but I don’t believe Dallas has one. Bottom line, point-wise, Dallas would be ripping off the Bucs by swapping firsts and including their #2 and #4. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1110

      In 2012, Dallas went from #14 to #6 for Dallas’ 2nd rounder, pick #45. 

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 10

      Apparently that trade wouldn’t work in 2014, two years later, unless the teams just decided to ignore the value chart.  I’m only trying to explain why, according to the current chart, a #2  and a #4 for a first round swap of about 10 spots isn’t such an outlandish thought.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1110

      Apparently that trade wouldn't work in 2014, two years later, unless the teams just decided to ignore the value chart.  I'm only trying to explain why, according to the current chart, a #2  and a #4 for a first round swap of about 10 spots isn't such an outlandish thought.

      I wasn't disagreeing with you, on the contrary.  If you get the 4th rounder, great, but don't count on it.  It takes two to tango.  The 2nd rounder alone is close enough for two teams to make the deal, especially if the Bucs want to move down badly.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      According to Draft Day we might be able to land 3 #1s!!!

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1110

      Actually, the Rams (#13), Bears (#14), and Cowboys (#16) are apparently all high on Aaron Donald.  So, that’s a player where there could be a bidding war to get that #2 with the Rams or Bears, or a #2 and #4 from the Cowboys.On the other hand, there's a reason why these teams like Donald.  Lovie should sit tight and take him at #7.  He's the tailor-made Dungy/Lovie three technique.  His initial step is one with the quickness I haven't seen in a long time.4.68 40,  35 bench reps,  11sacks, 28.5 tackles for loss, swim move, bull rush, leverage.  These are Sapp-like numbers.  I first thought Lovie would take a qB at #7.  After further review, I cannot believe he'll pass on Donald at pick #7...providing he's still there.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 396

      Yuc,  I’m with you in that the game is won on the lines.  I just currently see a massive for us at WR that I’m not sure we can ignore if at all possible if a top prospect is available.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 894

      Fix the friggin lines this year…..both sides. Runners can’t run, WR’s can’t catch balls not thrown and QB’s can’t do anything on their backs. If the pass rush isn’t good, our DB’s get made a fool of themselves. Fix that damn lines once and for all. Everything else is secondary.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 4274

      Based on what the organization did to add potential starters to what the combination of Smith and Licht felt were better schematic fits during free agency the team has positioned its self to draft BVA (Best Value Available) across the board - the team lacks depth at several critical positions; Receiver, Offensive Line, Linebacker, and Defensive line.Potentially if one of the prospects that many deem elite is not there the best bet for the team might be trading back and acquiring extra picks in a deep draft class...With that in mind I have decided to make a mock where the team trades down to the middle of the first picking up a second rounder and a fourth rounder.1. DE/LB Anthony Barr2. C/G Marcus Martin2. QB Jimmy Garoppolo3. WR Donte Moncrief 4. OT Cameron Fleming5. DT Caraun Reid6. LB Lamin Barrow7. WR Robert Herron

      I can dig this.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      1. DE/LB Anthony Barr

      what role would you see barr playing?  I’m not sure he meshes well with michael johnson?

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1091

      GT – I see Barr as a hybrid type – playing SAM and being able to add pass rush – making opposing offensive having to worry about McCoy, Johnson, Clayborn to some extent  and Barr meaning they could not truly double team any one player and allowing the Bucs to really get after opposing offenses – then throw in the Double A-Gap blitz with David and Foster mugging the LOS and A-Gaps and offensive lines would have to pick there poison.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      I can understand why teams may be a bit anxious about Barr, but I think he’s got an interesting skill set and could end up being a heck of a pass-rusher down the road. I wouldn’t love him at 7 because of risk, but love him later. Herron's one of my favorite late-round options, and I like the Reid pick. Not sure I love your OL choices though, but have only limited knowledge of Fleming.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 310

      I just don’t see us getting that much for Spot 7 unless we go down below 24 in this years draft.  The urgency for some teams is not there this year.  More teams want draft picks because the value is  playing a player for 4-5 years and let them go somewhere else and back fill him with another cheaper but valued player that’s been playing, but not starting.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 310

      This is one of the most exciting pre draft years because we can afford to take a BPA at spot 7.  We have lots of needs, but none are glaring.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      I agree Horse – though my caveat would be that guard need is glaring, but easily filled. I know people want to have us trade down from 7, but I think it's more likely that we do some trading down with our round 2 pick.

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    • Mattingly23

      Participant
      Post count: 15

      Mine is a little bit similar, but I think some of the players in your mock are not going to be there at the spots allocated.1-7 - QB - Teddy Bridgewater - Louisville - I think they've talked up Bortles and Manziel so others take them ahead of TB. I agree with Booker. We trade back w/SF in 2nd round. Go from 2-6 to 2-20 (Receive 3-13 and 5-30) - SF will probably grab Jeremiah Attaochu in the first and trade up to grab a big WR like Kelvin Benjamin.2-20 - WR - Paul Richardson - Colorado - Speed in space, and connection to current coaching staff.3-5 - CB - Pierre Desir - Lindenwood - Bigger CB, playmaker against lesser competition.3-13 - DT - Caraun Reid - Princeton - Soft spoken, talented, hard working DT from Ivy League. DT depth is questionable and Reid can play both spots.5-3 - ILB - Lamin Barrow - LSU - Athletic Tampa 2 linebacker. Again with the soft spoken (except on game day), talented, hard working temperament that Smith seeks.5-30 - CB - Deion Belue - Alabama - A sub-package corner who has been tested against top competition6-9 - DE - Aaron Lynch - South Florida - Talented but troubled. Can take a flyer here in the 6th, but he shouldn't be here with his level of talent.7-6 - WR - Tevin Reese - Baylor - Comes from an offense that is similar with focus on YAC -  screens, slants etc.O-Line will come through Free Agency - someone like Daryn Colledge and Eric Winston would be experienced depth pick-ups.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 1858

      I just don't see us getting that much for Spot 7 unless we go down below 24 in this years draft.  The urgency for some teams is not there this year.  More teams want draft picks because the value is  playing a player for 4-5 years and let them go somewhere else and back fill him with another cheaper but valued player that's been playing, but not starting.

      I agree. What I've said previously is I'd like to do whatever it takes to get another number 1 next year. Unless the Bucs are absolutely in love with a QB in rounds 1 or 2, we're pickign one next year. Why not load up especially if a great player isn't there at 7.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 8044

      jparis – really like the desir, reid, barrow, reese and lynch picks.  would rather have a WR with more size in round 2, especiallly with reese late.  and not even tremendous size, just adequate.  landry, matthews, are a couple of guys that i would have included instead.  id probably go OL instead of belue in the 5th, but definitely agree with need a couple more FAs.bridgewater?  sure, why not.  dont love him, but he better have that glove on starting the second he shakes goodells hand.  lots of attractive picks at 7 though.

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    • Mattingly23

      Participant
      Post count: 15

      Thanks GameTime.That second round WR is certainly a possibility. I do like Matthews and Landry as well, but with Paul Richardsons connection to the coaching staff I wonder if that will tilt it to his favour come draft day.As for Teddy - he has all the traits you can ask for in a franchise QB. Give him a year to correct his throwing motion and bulk up, because being an NFL QB all starts between the ears and having the guts to stand tall in the pocket.  Bortles is the other that I like as well given time to develop.Carr - Doubt his ability to stand in the pocket, but it could just be that his offensive system limited him in this way.Manziel - Doubt he has the intangibles and discipline.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 795

      Based on what the organization did to add potential starters to what the combination of Smith and Licht felt were better schematic fits during free agency the team has positioned its self to draft BVA (Best Value Available) across the board - the team lacks depth at several critical positions; Receiver, Offensive Line, Linebacker, and Defensive line.Potentially if one of the prospects that many deem elite is not there the best bet for the team might be trading back and acquiring extra picks in a deep draft class...With that in mind I have decided to make a mock where the team trades down to the middle of the first picking up a second rounder and a fourth rounder.1. DE/LB Anthony Barr2. C/G Marcus Martin2. QB Jimmy Garoppolo3. WR Donte Moncrief 4. OT Cameron Fleming5. DT Caraun Reid6. LB Lamin Barrow7. WR Robert Herron

      Yucc,Interesting draft.  I like Garoppolo and Herron picks.  I would try to trade back a second time in round one with a team like Cleveland that has multiple 1st and try to pick up another 2 or 3.  I wouild be looking to get Zach Martin from Notre Dame in the first and then Gabe Jackson in the second to help shore up the OL and still have extra picks.  Even if Nicks makes it back this year, I think his salary is way too high to be supported long term and Meredith is not a long term answer either.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      Interesting comments, guys.JParis, I missed the connection to Richardson - what is it? I took a shine to Garappolo during the E-W game, but the more I've learned about him, the less interested I am. I think the quick release and the arm talent are there (I like how quickly he can reset as well), and I like that he's got a lot of game experience.  But the pocket issues terrify me. He had a lot of clean pockets and a lot of quick easy throws. Way too often he seems to focus on the rush, and there are times where he's basically readying his body for impact. That's against teams like Northern IL.  Also, for a guy who comes across as a pretty smart player overall, don't like some of the forces - he threw 2 terrible picks against NI, and really should have had 4 (never read the underneath coverage on one and hit a LB right in the hands, the other was a throw into double coverage that a DB dropped). Now I've only watched 3 games (NI, Tennessee State, and Eastern KY), and the NI game was the worst (it also featured a handful of great throws, so it was up and down), so maybe I just picked the wrong sample. But on the other hand, NI was the best team they played and put him under the most pressure. In some ways, he's like Carr - ball is out quick, the offense seems a bit gimmicky (by that I mean unlike the NFL, suggesting a learning curve). But I think Carr has better raw tools, and reacts to pressure differently. Whereas Carr seems to speed stuff up under duress, Garappolo seems to shut-down. Neither is good, but not sure how you can overcome the latter. Garappolo was one of the worst QBs out of 11 (others were TB, Carr, Bortles, Manziel, Savage, McCarron, Mettengerger, Boyd, Shaw, and Murray) when it came to red-zone completion % and completion % when blitzed. https://twitter.com/NU_Gap/status/459134635625046016/photo/1I'd be a heck of a lot more interested in Garrappolo if he were a round 4 or later guy. I think at a minimum he's got a lot of work to do before he's a realistic NFL starter.

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 171

      Interesting comments, guys.JParis, I missed the connection to Richardson - what is it? I took a shine to Garappolo during the E-W game, but the more I've learned about him, the less interested I am. I think the quick release and the arm talent are there (I like how quickly he can reset as well), and I like that he's got a lot of game experience.  But the pocket issues terrify me. He had a lot of clean pockets and a lot of quick easy throws. Way too often he seems to focus on the rush, and there are times where he's basically readying his body for impact. That's against teams like Northern IL.  Also, for a guy who comes across as a pretty smart player overall, don't like some of the forces - he threw 2 terrible picks against NI, and really should have had 4 (never read the underneath coverage on one and hit a LB right in the hands, the other was a throw into double coverage that a DB dropped). Now I've only watched 3 games (NI, Tennessee State, and Eastern KY), and the NI game was the worst (it also featured a handful of great throws, so it was up and down), so maybe I just picked the wrong sample. But on the other hand, NI was the best team they played and put him under the most pressure. In some ways, he's like Carr - ball is out quick, the offense seems a bit gimmicky (by that I mean unlike the NFL, suggesting a learning curve). But I think Carr has better raw tools, and reacts to pressure differently. Whereas Carr seems to speed stuff up under duress, Garappolo seems to shut-down. Neither is good, but not sure how you can overcome the latter. Garappolo was one of the worst QBs out of 11 (others were TB, Carr, Bortles, Manziel, Savage, McCarron, Mettengerger, Boyd, Shaw, and Murray) when it came to red-zone completion % and completion % when blitzed. https://twitter.com/NU_Gap/status/459134635625046016/photo/1I'd be a heck of a lot more interested in Garrappolo if he were a round 4 or later guy. I think at a minimum he's got a lot of work to do before he's a realistic NFL starter.

      Great analysis, Booker.  You've seen a lot more of him than I have.  So, who would you favor with a late 2nd (if we traded up a bit) to 4th (if we traded back)?  (taking into account that this seems a particularly tough draft for that kind of projection)

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3392

      It really depends on who gets there. Here’s how I break them down in terms of interest to me:round 1 - Bridgewater, Manziel. round 2 - Carr (I find Carr hard to assess because of the O, but he has good tools, he comes across extremely well, and frankly, I trust Tedford on this one). Obviously he could be gone by round 2, but I wouldn't want to take him earlier than that. round 4/5 - this is where I'd consider Garappolo (no chance he's there), but I like Murray here maybe. I also like David Fales quite a bit. I'm not a huge fan of taking QBs in the middle rounds generally. I kind of think it's early or late. I worry that the mid-round guys are maxed out guys with insufficient raw ability. round 7/undrafted - Basically these are guys who have something going on that makes them worth a low-risk shot at having them develop. This year for me that's Brett Smith, Tajh Boyd, and Stephen Morris. Again, I'm no expert and I haven't seen everything. 

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