MIAMI GARDENS, FL - DECEMBER 14: Lamar Miller #26 of the Miami Dolphins is defended by Landon Collins #21 of the New York Giants during the first half of the game at Sun Life Stadium on December 14, 2015 in Miami Gardens, Florida. (Photo by Chris Trotman/Getty Images)
With the somewhat peculiar negotiation between the Buccaneers and unrestricted free agent running back Doug Martin presumably stalled for now, Martin has received interest from a handful of other teams according to Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Times.
Earlier on Monday evening Stroud wrote, “According to multiple reports, Bucs free agent running back Doug Martin has received interest from at least a half dozen teams. The Jaguars, Broncos, Raiders and 49ers are all in the running back market. The Broncos placed a low tender on restricted free agent running back C.J. Anderson, giving them only right of first refusal.”
Stroud went on to point out that the Bucs have shown an interest in Jets free agent Chris Ivory. Dolphins RB Lamar Miller could also be a target of the Bucs if Martin is lost to another team during free agency.
Miller has rushed for 2,930 yards and 19 touchdowns during his first four seasons in the NFL, and also recorded 117 receptions for 887 yards and three touchdowns. However the former Miami Hurricane star is reported to be seeking DeMarco Murray money ($8-9 million avg.).
Ivory might make more sense that Miller, as he will most likely command less money, and fits the bill of a tough north-south runner who runs extremely physical. Ivory had his first career 1,000 yard season as a member of the Jets last season.
As Scott Reynolds wrote on Monday, the Bucs have also shown some interest in Seattle guard J.R. Sweezy and Cleveland right tackle Mitchell Schwartz, and also met with former Panthers defensive end Charles Johnson recently.
Free agency kicks off this Wednesday at 4 p.m. although a “legal tampering” period began on Monday at noon, giving teams an opportunity to negotiate with free agents.
Mark Cook currently is the director of editorial content and Bucs beat writer and has written for PewterReport.com since 2011. Cook has followed the Buccaneers since 1977 when he first began watching football with his Dad and is fond of the 1979 Bucs team that came within 10 points of going to a Super Bowl. His favorite Bucs game is still the 1979 divisional playoff win 24-17 over the Eagles. In his spare time Cook enjoys playing guitar, fishing, surfing and family time at the beach. In addition, Cook can be found in front of a television or in Doak Campbell any time the FSU Seminoles are playing. Cook is a native of Pinecrest in Eastern Hillsborough County and has written for numerous publications including the Tampa Tribune, In the Field and Ya'll Magazine. Cook can be reached at [email protected]
Use Plan D – DRAFT!!
If the Bucs do free agency right and get a good pass rushing DE, we can get Zeke Elliott at 9. Invest Doug’s money in a top DE in FA and get a younger, bigger, faster, stronger, running back in the draft. There will be DEs and DTs in the 2nd round with CBs and FSs in rounds 3, 4, and 5. Not to worry!
I agree in a way with with macabee. One thing Iam worrie.Why would Tampa get only a 2nd rd pick at this stage of the time. I like getting Elliott at pick no#9 or trade down and get mult draft choices this would solve tampa needs, and of course get a few Veterans thru Free agents. Go Bucs
Mac- Your an intelligent guy but thats a dumb statement, “stronger, bigger, faster” yes, same thing said about guy Emmitt Smith, show me a rookie who will get 1,400 yds and average 4.9 yds a carry? Unless there is a Eric Dickerson in this draft or Adrian Pederson your TALKING NON SENSE!
The Bucs don’t deserve D Martin and fans on here who don’t want him back don’t deserve him either, I wish Martin lots of success somewhere else as I will place my Martin Jersy in the box of yet more failed Bucs Jerseys in the shed and I will resign my status as a Bucs Fan after 30 yrs, this is absurd and ridiculous
You are going to have to stop putting this stuff at the curbside and trying to put it on dogs. You absolutely abhor reading. You didn’t even read Cook’s article or my post.
This isn’t about whether we want Doug back. We all want Doug to sign with the Bucs. The article is about what if he doesn’t and what other RBs the Bucs may entertain. Did you ever stop to think that Doug may not want to sign with the Bucs, that he may want to sign with the highest bidder? The article is about what are the alternatives.
Of course I want Doug back! Only an idiot could read otherwise into my post. Anybody with a modicum of intelligence that read my words would know that I suggested that If Doug chooses to leave for the biggest payday, rather than go with a lesser talent in free agency, use Plan D – the draft and use the money that we would have paid Doug on a pass rushing DE in FA.
And every word I said about Elliot when compared to the other guys available is true. I’m not the only one that thinks Elliott and the draft could be an alternative, did you review the link. Nooo! You saw a few words, rolled up in front of my house, did your “bizness” at my curbside hoping I would put it on dogs. Now stop it! You’re giving the dogs in my neighborhood a bad name! lol.
you two are providing a great deal of comedy relief…Mac, you must be retired, because you have too much time on your hands. JG…don’t take it personal brotha, mac has too much time on his hands, it’s an opinion board voice an opinion and move on…I thought last year was great with all the winston/mariota drama, especially from pinkstob…this is getting good!!!
You got it funkdoc, rich, handsome, and retired. lol. Reader’s Digest says laughter is the best medicine. And don’t mind Jon, he’s a good guy. He’s just got an aversion to reading and facts. But not to worry, I’m working on him slowly but surely! lol.
Using a first or second round pick on a back isn’t a bad way to go. You lock a top tier back up for 4,5 years on the cheap for the best years of his career. Jimmy Johnson used to say ride the horse till it dies, then get another horse. Martin has had four NFL seasons, two injury filled. The damage is done, he won’t be getting faster, or stronger during the next contract. Two more good productive years would be the most you could hope for from him. So what’s that worth? No one in the NFL respects Martin’s speed. Imagine what a back with Elliott’s speed could do for our offense, or a said like back in the mid rounds.
Interesting to note, Robertson personal man for the Bucs now Titans G.M.. chose to trade for Murray rather then pursue Martin. So he gave up draft picks, and took on Murrays big contract rather then trying to sign a F.A. back he knows very well.
My golly Jonnyg, your panties sure have been in a wad lately. I totally agree with your criticism of posters on this site who would be perfectly happy to let #22 go and draft an unknown or sign a lesser talent. But that’s not what macabee was suggesting. As some of us know, but others fail to comprehend, free agency is a two way street. Players have a say too. I have little doubt that the Glazers will pay Martin whatever value Licht deems fair….maybe even a little more. It’s pretty clear that the organization is allowing the marketplace to help set that value, thus justifying the numbers on the check. People just need to let the process run its’ course before jumping to conclusions to suit their predetermined perceptions.
I like Martin – I was pretty vocal before last season to give him another chance (I won’t mention any other “predictions”)…but he’s not a lynchpin…if he leaves, that will suck but we’ll be able to recover….whether Licht actually helps us recover or not is the concern for me…letting Martin walk and then overpaying for Miller – not a good plan…giving the top job to Sims – not a good plan…drafting a RB in the 6th round to replace him – not a good plan….the first couple days of pre-FA are looking a little scary, let’s see if Licht really is this top flight GM I keep being told he is.
EEB- “letting Martin walk and then overpaying for Miller-not a good plan”
EXACTLY. I could see Martin wanting to make more $ AND go back to Oakland, though- so it isn’t nec.an issue of it being all on Bucs mgmt
True enough @wilthebrewer…but if it is all about $ for Doug, and Licht decides to save $1m and let him walk to Oakland…and our starting RB is now Ivory or Sims or some scrub from the 5th round…that’s just making life tougher on WINSTON and I think we need to be doing as much as we can in FA and the draft to make life easier on him (99 hits last year was atrocious – if we have no running game, he’s looking at getting killed in 2016)
Not hating the idea of EE at #9. We’ve got to make the offense work first, giving Winston every opportunity for success. It’s disappointing that the Bucs didn’t sign Martin, but maybe he’s asking ridiculous money or would rather play in CA.
I’ve been thinking about that too (or even trading down and still getting him)…all will depend on whether Licht can do something in FA to help the defense (and preferably OL too)…in any case, letting Martin walk would mean another hole to fill in the draft….and we have so many holes 🙁
Doug will be used up before this team makes a serious run. It would make sense to get a young RB who will be in his prime in years 3-5 when the Bucs could be serious contenders.
Yep…..I agree. Like Martin but in a couple years he will be beat up and we will be on the cusp of being a playoff team.
(If Doug signs elsewhere) I’m not opposed to signing Miller. The articles I’ve been reading indicates that he’s just looking to be paid in the $5 Mil range. He won’t touch $8-$9 Mil for sure.
But as an alternative, is Miller really that bad? He was severely underutilized in MIA. The OC there had no idea what he was doing. I think if given the same amount of carries as Doug received last season, we could get the same type, if not better production (with more finished runs…Miller won’t get caught from behind). He’s very capable of big plays. If you look at MIA’s schedule, every time Miller exceeded 14 carries, MIA won. It’s when they completely forgot about the run and became pass heavy and he would received 13 or less touches, they would lose. I imagine Miller with Koetter might really be something. Here’s a little highlight of Miller against NYG in which our boy Doug struggled to run against.
Martin against NYG 11-31-0,4-2-12-0. Granted Sims had an ok game 8-78-0,2-1-4-0, but he’s not our #1 back.
There is so much clear and indisputable research out there that shows us that teams don’t win BECAUSE they run the ball more, they run the ball more BECAUSE they are winning. When a RB carries the ball more, those high-carry games tend to come when the team is ALREADY WINNING. For example, when you have a second half lead, you run the ball more, inflating the carry numbers for a RB. You’re confusing correlation and causation here.
Not necessarily. I followed Miller closely this season one because I feel he’s underrated, secondly because he was on my fantasy team. There were quite a bit of times where the game was either tied or Miami was ahead in which they completely for abandoned the run. Had games won but as so determined to get the ball to Landry…
No confusion here. I’m well aware of what I’m saying and what I meant.
I’m going to say this and leave this subject alone because it’s becoming toxic. On re-reading my original post, I could have been clearer by adding a disclaimer like scox17 did above (If Doug signs elsewhere).
Let me say this loud and clear. I want Doug Martin back. I don’t like any of the alternatives. But the “free” in free agency is there for a reason. Doug is free to choose where he wants to play and for how much.
I’m not going to comment on why it was allowed to get this far. A contract requires two parties to agree. I’m not going to cast aspersions on either. I’m going to let the parties work this out and Jason Licht do his job with the alternatives. In other words, I’m going to shut up! Good luck Bucs!
Ivory has more treadwear on his tires than Martin and a lot fewer receptions. The Jets cut him for a reason. He’s cheaper than Martin, but you get what you pay for. Just because recent trends in the NFL have made RBs underpaid compared to most other positions doesn’t mean they always will be. Martin is the special kind of back who should set a new ceiling for RB pay. Look for him to get $10 million per season, still astonishingly less than the $15 million the Broncos have offered the unaccomplished Brock Osweiler. Bigger new cap. Fewer young free agents in their prime. Bigger new contracts for those who get away.
I asked for a response yesterday from those who think losing Martin isn’t a big deal and none were given.
I will offer the same challenge here again today.
The object of FA is to make your team better.
At the moment, what proven FA RB out there right now is better than the second leading RB in the NFL.
There is none.
To have to replace a proven commodity you already have with a draft pick is a waste when you lack talent on the team lke the Bucs do.
Downgrading because of money is stupid too when you are $60 million under the cap.
Citing injury as a reason isn’t valid either because the Bucs resigned McCoy to big money and he has only played one full season in the NFL.
Age isn’t valid either. Since Martin has only had a total of three regular seasons as an NFL back, he still has a lot of tread left on the tires.
He is on the upswing of his NFL career, not the downside.
Finally, who doesn’t think that Martin is more of a valuable commodity to this team than Vjax.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Vjax and I don’t want him gone. But Martin is more of a commodity at his age than Vjax is at his.
We could get a hell of a younger and faster receiver for $10 to $12 million than Vjax which is what he is going to make this year.
Finally to Surferdude, how do you know no one respects Marins speed. A lot of backs get caught from behind, yes even Barry Sanders was, because DB’s are faster
Martin was caught from behind against the Redskins because Dye whiffed on a block and against the Eagles because he fought off a DB for 10 yards. You really are a dull tool.
Yesterday the St. Pete Times ran a story about who the Bucs were interested in for FA and they were all noted to probably be cheap or bargain players.
What all this points to is the Bucs and specifically the Glazer boys, are trying to run an NFL franchise like one of their Hoolligan restaurants.
You don’t win championships by being cheap which is what the Glazer boys are trying to do.
All the Glazers are doing is trying to make as much of a profit out of this team as they can and the biggest way to do that is to save money on labor.
Well I for one won’t support this anymore. I am relinquishing my season tickets after 35 years and staying home to watch the games on TV.
They can’t raise my season ticket prices by 20 percent and not give any of the money to the labor force to improve the product on the field.
I have written the Bucs several letters in the same vein and encourage any of you rational thinking Buc fans who feel the same way as I do to do the same.
Well then Drd pick another team. Seriously you sit here and botch every post about the glazers. They are not going anywhere get used to it.
So let’s look at the stats since you see Doug as a Barry sanders type back. Did you know we played 12 of the worst tackling defenses in the nfl last year? Probably not. And stop making excuses for Doug getting caught from behind. He gets caught from behind because after 30 yards he gets significantly slower. You see AP get caught from behind? Nope. As for other backs. I think miller is better. Has averaged over 4 yards a carry his entire career and is much faster than Martin. And probably cheaper too. But you keep going and spewing your buc hate, or better yet, pick another team you are boring at this point .
I saw someone post that on another Bucs blog. First, I don’t think it was 12 poor tackling teams. I think it was 10. Second, Doug’s YPC were actually BETTER in games against good tackling teams. I can’t find the numbers right now, but he put up something like 5.2 YPC against good tackling teams and 4.6 YPC against the relatively poor tackling teams, or something like that. Your point there is moot. Doug led the league in broken tackles last season as well as YPC after contact. Oh, and also, AP had MORE games against poor tackling teams than Doug did. Just fyi. And Doug ran against base defenses 73% of the time, an incredibly high figure that makes his production even more impressive.
Thanks you toofamiliar17 for bringing stats to the table. I much rather debate over stats than emotion. I don’t want people thinking I don’ like Doug ,but the facts are the facts. He did lead the league in broken tackles, which doesn’t make my point moot because we did in fact play the worst tackling teams in the league. Easy to break a tackle when the team can’t tackle. I’m not comparing Doug to AP because there’s no comparison there. Doug’s not even close to AP good.
When Doug puts up AP numbers in more than 1 year at a time then, I’ll start comparing the two. I am just looking bug picture, not what a guy does in a contract year.
Problem is , much like Mac posted above, we don;’t know what Dougs asking for money wise so we can’t claim the Glazers are cheap.
Your post on Martin was spot on, it was obvious to me that you want Martin back, but I can appreciate Jon”s position because we are all uptight about losing our Pro-Bowl running back and a presumably important piece of our 2016 game plan. Hey, I am an OSU grad, and I worship Zeke and drafting him and his running, blocking, and leadership potential would be a real treat for me. Hell if I was in charge I’d pay Martin, and draft Elliott, but thats probably not in the cards. You guys are among the best sources I have and I fully respect all your contributions on this site.
Everyone is raising some valid points. While I agree with the consensus that holding onto the Dougernaught is our best option, there are viable alternatives. I can see us signing Miller and taking the savings to use on a DE in FA. Or sign a DE and draft Elliot gaiingn a younger back with less mileage.
I have faith that Martin will stay after all due diligence is done, but if not, it won’t spell the end of the Bucs rise
plopes888, there isn’t a DE out there right now worth spending a lot of money on in FA.
Mario Williams is old. Charles Johnson, too. Oliver Vernon had Cameron Walk and King Kong Suh on the line with him last year and had 7.5 sacks while Suh was being double and triple teamed.
Cgmaster, the Bucs will still be my team as I indicated, I am just not going to support them financially.
Also, just because you say something, it doesn’t make it fact. I have seen Adrian Petersen caught from behind as well.
Also, just because you think Miller is faster doesn’t make it so. Even if he is, it doesn’t make him a better back. Break tackles (Martin led) finding nonexistent hole and/or flowing blocks, etc.
We used to have one of those worthless Gator players who ran in the Olympics but he could never run on the football field and he also dropped easy passes thrown to him.
Hey, if you want to keep in supporting a couple of billionaires who are following the Hugh Culverhouse business philosophy go right ahead. It’s your right.
After all it’s the current way many Republican CEO’s do business. Just ask Carrier. Reason I will never buy another AC from them.
It is also my right to speak up when I see this business model being copied and to let others examine the facts and form their opinions. Fair enough?
Also plopes808, please reread my post. As reported in the St. Pete Times, the Bucs are only looking at “bargain” free agents.
You don’t go to the Super Bowl shopping at Wal Mart.
Also Cgmaster, go back to grade school and work on your reading comprehension. I never said Dougie was a Barry Sanders type back because he isn’t. I simply said Sanders was caught from behind just like every other back in the NFL can get caught from behind by a speedier DB who can take a good angle.
So Doug Martin averaged 4.9 yds a carry but he gets caught from behind on 30 + yds? ok sounds right, ha So we played against some poor tackling teams eh? We played against a soft schedule last yr Jags, Boys, G-men, Sants, Falcons, Wash, so on and so on so does this mean Winston isn’t very good either? Nah, I didn’t think so
Wow, this article set off some fairly interesting conversation. So much has been said I’ll keep my post brief. I still don’t think Elliott will make it to #9 but we’ll see what happens in FA with the teams ahead of us. If we do somehow draft E. Elliott our running game will get a little better, not much better, but better since Elliott is faster and a better pass protector than Martin, while performing just as well in terms of running, vision and pass catching. If we replace Martin with any other FA, our running game will get anywhere from a little to a lot worse since Martin is better than every other FA RB.
Pink- Your saying a college kid is better than Martin who ran for 1,400 yds and a average of 4.9 yds a carry before he takes one snap in the NFL, lol this is what I’m talking about
I’m starting to reach the conclusion that drdneast is the new BF47. I guess there has to be one poster who has convinced himself that he possesses superior knowledge about all things football and politics. Here drdneast continues to bash the Glazers because they raised the ticket prices more in line with the rest of the league and for that makes claims of their unwillingness to pay players. Simply not the case when time after time they have written the checks the GM requested. He’ll just sit at home and watch his TV while supporting the billionaire Japanese manufacturer. I’d much rather take my hard earned money to buy season tickets than to write a check to the government so they can hand it to some lazy lowlife who knows how to defraud the system. Ooops, sorry about getting off of football.
Scubog, I was thinking the same thing about BF47 and drdneast just yesterday as I was walking between buildings at work. However, I concluded that there is a stark difference between the two: Bucfan47 never truly cared about the Bucs and that was my biggest problem with him, bigger than his perceived “superior knowledge about all things”. I don’t really remember him talking about politics. Some people that think they know everything know more than we care to admit because they’re such d#$ks about it. The debate back then was whether Morris, Dominik and Freeman would work out and he was against all three of them. The debate continued until the end of the 2010 season when the Bucs went 10-6 and nearly made the playoffs. You heard a post or two every now and then from him in 2011 and after that he was gone. But you could tell prior to that from his comments he didn’t want to see the Bucs be successful, he just wanted to be right and for someone else to tell him so. From what I’ve read so far Drdneast has his own opinions and many of which I don’t agree with, but I least I’ve concluded he wants to see the Bucs do well and he has for some time. Whether that continues is up to him and how well the team performs. If they perform poorly this season there’s going to be a lot of pissed season ticket holders, not just Drdneast. Pissed enough to stop being season ticket holders, we’ll see. I will say that I respect the people that remain season ticket holders no matter what a little more than the rest, such as yourself.
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