The GM also will build the draft board and develop strategy in the draft room. I'm excited to see who it's going to be.
All the appearances of a figurehead position anyway. Lovie's the GM, otherwise he'd probably be in Detroit.
That's a ridiculous statement. The GM still has to do all the work. The head coach doesn't have time to do as in depth player evaluations as the GM, who will have final say in the draft. The GM will also be in charge of managing the cap, signing free agents, etc... The days of a head coach operating as GM are long gone. The only authority Lovie has over the GM is the composition of the final 53, which is reasonable. In the end, the HC/GM combo is a collaborative relationship in any high-functioning organization. So, no, the new GM will not be a mere figurehead.
Not asking anybody else to take my definition, but someone who only works on contracts is not a GM in my book.
LOL. Talk about an over generalization. I imagine the new GM will have a hand in hiring staff, hiring scouts, scouting talent from college and the pro's, managing the cap, writing contracts, communicating with the league and union about transactions etc, and talking to agents. As well as many other duties. Would a person with those responsibilities be called a GM in your mind?
He will be an assistant to Lovie and do some contract negotiations. Lovie will have final say so on the draft as well as personnel. I call a GM someone who has input on a Head Coach hiring, final say so on the draft, and a say so on personnel. The new guy will not have those responsibilities.
It's nice to know that Pewter Report has posters who've seen the contracts and been privy to the discussions on such matters as these.
Well, we're all working from internet reports. The most recent version I've heard is Lovie has final say on the final 53 and the GM has final say over the draft. This seems to be a reasonable balance, and one that would still allow them to attract good GM candidates.
Yep, twitter and such. And for Ryan's sake, let me emphasize, I'm expressing my opinion using common sense, even though I failed to add, " imo " .
So how would this make a GM a figurehead? Doesn't Lovie's "power" seem kind of normal?
From today's chat, Scott Reynolds:"Smith will have final say-so in terms of personnel and drafting, so he's running the show. "Of course Lovie's "running the show." That's what a General Manager does. The new guy will be a figurehead with maybe a chance for advancement down the road, but I doubt it. Again, if Lovie wasn't running the show, he easily could be in Detroit. Better believe he has more power than normal.
It's nice to know that Pewter Report has posters who've seen the contracts and been privy to the discussions on such matters as these.
Well, we're all working from internet reports. The most recent version I've heard is Lovie has final say on the final 53 and the GM has final say over the draft. This seems to be a reasonable balance, and one that would still allow them to attract good GM candidates.
Yep, twitter and such. And for Ryan's sake, let me emphasize, I'm expressing my opinion using common sense, even though I failed to add, " imo " .
So how would this make a GM a figurehead? Doesn't Lovie's "power" seem kind of normal?
From today's chat, Scott Reynolds:"Smith will have final say-so in terms of personnel and drafting, so he's running the show. "Of course Lovie's "running the show." That's what a General Manager does. The new guy will be a figurehead with maybe a chance for advancement down the road, but I doubt it. Again, if Lovie wasn't running the show, he easily could be in Detroit. Better believe he has more power than normal.
Sweep's right, the GM normally has final say over roster decisions. As Brian Billick likes to talk about, this has moved from a "head coach's league" to a "general manager's league". However, I'm not sure how much of a difference there actually will be - my guess at this point is the diffference isn't major except that it might be driving away the best GM candidates. I think SR's reporting on some of Dominik's "mistakes" provides a useful example. According to SR, Dominik repeatedly made mistakes with respect to listening to coaches at the wrong times: keeping Black, Trueblood, and signing Ogletree (now, I think those arguments were bogus, but anyways). Where the dynamic changes is that Dominik knew he had final say, whereas it seems that Lovie will have final say. Yet, GM/coaches almost always work very well/closely together (exception: Schottenheimer & A.J. Smith). That's why Dominik was willing apparently to resign these guys (to massively inflated deals...) - because working together and coming to agreement on the roster is in the best interest of coach & GM.So, aside from potentially being unable to bring in a top-shelf GM candidate, it seems to me that the team won't be run much differently from the alternative. Lovie isn't Josh McDaniels - as long as the GM isn't spineless I have trouble picturing Lovie running roughshod and making decisions at odds with the GM. That being said, and I think this is important: where we will likely be able to best evaluate Smith's influence is in keeping veterans past their prime. Coaches typically prefer vets, and after year 1 (where I think he will bring in vets who know his system), it will be interesting to see how the Bucs handle players past their prime.
I agree with almost everything you say, Tog, but where's the evidence that it "might be driving away the best GM candidates?" From what I can gather, this is a pretty good list.
Why is this taking so long?? Maybe waiting until playoffs are over??
Why is this taking so long?? Maybe waiting until playoffs are over??
Why do you think this has been too long? The scouting staff is intact except for the GM.
Why is this taking so long?? Maybe waiting until playoffs are over??
Why do you think this has been too long? The scouting staff is intact except for the GM.
Odd to make a GM your last hire
KC did last year.
I agree with almost everything you say, Tog, but where's the evidence that it "might be driving away the best GM candidates?" From what I can gather, this is a pretty good list.
Ballard appeared to be the top candidate and chose not to take the job - the leap in logic being that he wanted to wait for a better opportunity. Charlie Campbell has also reported that some in the NFL don't view the TB job as a "true" GM position.I don't actually know if that's the case, hence emphasizing "might". I agree, it does seem like a good list.
According to SR, Lovie will make all the draft day decisions. He'll make all the personnel decisions. He's making the decision on his new assistant....the new "GM". He's "running the show". Glazers gave him extraordinary power (my words). Unless you choose not to believe SR, then the only thing left to discuss is that great, good, bad, or horrifying? Frankly, I haven't even thought about whether that's good or not.
Hopefully, the new "GM" will be not only an excellent talent evaluator, but an excellent persuader. I was OK with the "power" situation when I thought the GM had final say on the draft, but if that's not the case, I think the GM-ish person needs to become the guy that Lovie relies on for good information and has absolute faith in. Hopefully, Lovie lets him run the show more or less and only exerts ultimate authority in rare cases. This is what I'm hoping for and I think it's a reasonable hope given Lovie's demeanor. I'd still rather have the powerful GM arrangement, but the Glazers didn't ask me.
Apparently Vital told the AJC that he's staying in Atlanta. I'm guessing we are getting pretty close to having a new GM soon.
