There was a debate during the season - sometime at the tail end of and immediately after the 8 game losing streak - about whether it was "right" of a fan to actively cheer for the Bucs to lose or at the very least be okay with losing. The position of those rooting for losses was mainly rooted in the draft. The position of those who felt a true fan couldn't root against their team and those who did weren't true fans was mainly based in loyalty and supporting the team no matter what.Now, knowing the draft order, and seeing that we might miss out on one of the prospects who is truly a team need and could be a game changer for this franchise- whether it be Clowney, Watkins, or one of the QBs - how do folks feel about the "tanking" discussion now? Was it worth it to have one or two more wins this past season and miss out on one of those franchise altering prospects? Or would another loss or two have been more than this team or fan base (or yourself) can handle?My personal opinion is that while I didn't actively cheer for losses, I reached a point during the season where I also couldn't cheer for wins. I was just stuck in this indifferent zone where I wanted the Bucs to win games, but knew that, at a certain point, winning games did nothing but hurt this team moving forward. It was a lose lose either way for me. Now, looking back, I would love to be sitting in the top 3 right now with the chance to grab a prospect like Clowney or even Watkins given MWills troubles. Hindsight is 20/20 but I would absolutely trade 2 wins for that chance, but that's just me.
its hard to root for a team full of quitters. and its even harder for me to expect a team full of quitters to magically become winners. HOFs are found at pick 7, at pick 20, and also at pick 2.it baffles me that our fans would be more interested in draftday ratherthan gameday.
it baffles me that our fans would be more interested in draftday ratherthan gameday.
But to a certain extent, doesn't draft day help the gameday experience?I understand what you are saying, and ultimately watching the games is where it counts. But in my opinion to each fan their own. I think anyone who is going as far to care either way, (whether it be continuing to root for wins, or looking at losses as improving draft position) is being a fan. There is no right way to do it, and just because I feel a certain way doesn't mean you should feel the same. But its fun to discuss and get other opinions
yeah, i understand it. tough to elaborate because everything i want to type will just come off as being a jerk. definintely love the constructive discussions though!
yeah, i understand it. tough to elaborate because everything i want to type will just come off as being a jerk. definintely love the constructive discussions though!
Yea, I hear ya. It's an old debate but a good one. I'm a basketball fan as well, and tanking is even worse there with ESPN even going as far as to rate teams on their tanking process. Don't know how I would feel if football reached that level - but it's also a different sport where more than one player is needed, typically, to drastically alter the franchise.In our case, like I said, hindsight is 20/20, but if we were in position to draft a supposedly once in a generation player like Clowney at a position of need, I would gladly trade two wins. But who would've known that during the season, and like you said, who is not to say that Mack or someone we grab at 7 doesn't end up being just as good. I was disappointed when we got Gerald McCoy instead of Ndam... Suh a few years back because we had 1 extra win. But now, I would rather have McCoy. Along the same lines however, I will never forget missing out on Calvin Johnson because of an extra win.
the suh/mccoy debate is enough for me. sure, it would be great to have either player, but most Bucs fans are happy now. as for CJ - had we drafted AP or pat willis or marshawn or revis and had the extra picks...then would it have stung as bad? our GM made a bad choice...heck, they might have made a bad choice with CJ on the board!as for clowney, i want him more than anyone in the draft. but does he have the mental drive to be great? a guy with just a little lesser natural talent might have more mental drive and instincts to be a better pick.
I am not sure about rooting again the team as that relates to one's status as a fan, but I do think that rooting for losses is odd because its, essentially, pointless, at worse and overblown at best. Its pointless because players don't generally tank games for draft status. They might see a season as a lost cause and that may impact their play overall, but I doubt you would find many (if any) professional players willing to knowingly tank games for next year's draft, particularly when their "tape" is essential to their own individual future. I get the hindsight view of things that says, for example, "if we would've not won those 2 games we could've had Luck" or something like that, but those thoughts are really overblown because "Luck-type" players are so rare and otherwise the impact between a position or two in the draft is relatively small. Further teams succeed by doing well with the picks they get more so than by getting one "Luck-type" pick early on.
If only we had established our indifference earlier we could have had the first pick in the draft.
the suh/mccoy debate is enough for me. sure, it would be great to have either player, but most Bucs fans are happy now. as for CJ - had we drafted AP or pat willis or marshawn or revis and had the extra picks...then would it have stung as bad? our GM made a bad choice...heck, they might have made a bad choice with CJ on the board!as for clowney, i want him more than anyone in the draft. but does he have the mental drive to be great? a guy with just a little lesser natural talent might have more mental drive and instincts to be a better pick.
But it's about having those options. I mean look at the Rams - because of their record a couple years ago they have had a ton of premium picks, and might even end up this year getting more picks out of the No. 2 spot again!As for CJ, there's no way the Bucs would have passed on him because they were considering trading up for him as is. And while you can throw names like Willis or Revis as could've-beens, Gaines Adams was considered a top 5 pick. It's not like they reached (as Willis and Revis would've been). I think the big loss though will be a chance to nab a franchise QB. What I'm becoming increasingly paranoid about is Lovie & Co. deciding to grab a journeyman QB, then we spend the next 4 years in purgatory - never being close to a Super Bowl yet always out of franchise QB range. That's where I really think being pick 7 hurts us. If you think one of these 3 top QBs is a franchise guy, it'll suck if we miss on them.
Funny you mention the Rams... You speak glowingly of their options /picks yet they are right where you state you don't want to be... QB purgatory. As for the cj example, the point is its all unknown. Unknown at #2, unknown at #7. You can assume the Bucs would have taken cj that year. But we also all assumed Gaines Adams would have been a much better pick.
Funny you mention the Rams... You speak glowingly of their options /picks yet they are right where you state you don't want to be... QB purgatory.
By their own decision (and in having so much tied in Bradford because of the old system). They could move on from Bradford if they wanted (financials aside). The nice thing is they are in that position - they have a choice even if they make the wrong one. And really, is any QB going to be successful with Schottenheimer...
i guess its all perspective. we have tons of choices also, just maybe not the guys you think are the best. just because kiper&mcshay called someone a reach doesnt mean they truly are.
Mow I am a conservative draft person, but I could not encourage the thought of not trying your very best to win. I was taught to never quit or give up without first trying your very best. It's just not in my gene pool.
I did. Every Sunday I told my dad, "I hope Schiano pulls out the L" as I knew this day was coming. No different from say trading Trent Richardson mid year to have ammunition for the deepest draft in recent memory. The clear cut reasons are valid, but being able to walk away with Clowney, Watkins or our QB choice is a lot better than beating Miami and Buffalo
a team capable of winning the SB doesn't have any quit in them... if we're going to win the SB within the next 5 years, we're going to need alot of the players on the current roster to help us get there. it's a good thing that we had players that were fighting even when the playoffs were out of reach... speaking of, we should be thanking schiano that he got rid of alot of the cancers who didn't give their full effort consistently.if we're not contending in 5 years, lovie is probably gone and we're rebuilding again.
