I tried to sit down and watch the 2000 Ravens documentary and couldn't make it through the bullshit. They played an absolute joke of a schedule. They played all the bottom tier offenses and only played one top 10 offense and got SMOKED. Their offense was middle of the pack in yards and points and 5th in rushing and 9th in fewest turnovers.
People only put the 2002 defense ahead of the 99 defense because the offense was semi competent. It allowed them to win more games and get more turnovers because they had more leads.
They played an absolute joke of a schedule.
The '99 defense was great, but they played a pretty easy schedule too. Here is the list of QB's they faced, with Favre and Cunningham being the only QB's of notoriety:
Kent Graham
Doug Pederson
Brian Griese
Randal Cunningham (26/34, 296 yards, 3 TD, 1 Int)
Brett Favre (22/40, 390 yards, 2 TD, 0 Int)
Cade McNown
Charlie Batch
Billie Joe Tolliver
Elvis Grbac
Chris Chandler
Jon Kitna
Jeff George
Gus Frerotte
Rich Gannon (first year in Oakland w/Gruden)
Brett Favre
Cade McNown
I'm not really arguing one defense over the other, as they both were great. This is splitting very fine hairs.
They played an absolute joke of a schedule.
The '99 defense was great, but they played a pretty easy schedule too. Here is the list of QB's they faced, with Favre and Cunningham being the only QB's of notoriety:
Kent Graham
Doug Pederson
Brian Griese
Randal Cunningham (26/34, 296 yards, 3 TD, 1 Int)
Brett Favre (22/40, 390 yards, 2 TD, 0 Int)
Cade McNown
Charlie Batch
Billie Joe Tolliver
Elvis Grbac
Chris Chandler
Jon Kitna
Jeff George
Gus Frerotte
Rich Gannon (first year in Oakland w/Gruden)
Brett Favre
Cade McNown
I'm not really arguing one defense over the other, as they both were great. This is splitting very fine hairs.
That's a good list, Kitna, George, Grbac, Batch and Chandler were good QBs back then. Frerotte was fine.
Main point is this defense doesn't get their recognition in history because of the offense. And there's a false narrative that the 2000 Ravens offense was bad but it really wasn't. They had 2 hall of famers with a possible third.
1999 Bucs defense is in the conversation with the 1985 Bears. Only difference is the offenses and that changes the perception.
What makes our 99 defense better than our super bowl defense?
We added Simeon Rice and won it all... that's gotta count for something
That's a good list, Kitna, George, Grbac, Batch and Chandler were good QBs back then. Frerotte was fine.
Is this a joke? Grbac is the only one of the bunch that didn’t blow balls in ‘99, going for 3,389 yards, 22 TD’s, and 15 picks with a paltry completion percentage of 58.9. Dilfer had a higher completion percentage that season, for fuck’s sake.
Jeff George was Cunningham’s backup.
Kitna was a good QB in the World League.
Chandler peaked in ‘98, and went 4-8 in ‘99.
Frerotte did squat in ‘99.
Charlie Batch? Lolz!!!!!!!!
What makes our 99 defense better than our super bowl defense?
We added Simeon Rice and won it all... that's gotta count for something
99 team had Nickerson and Abraham. Also Sapp, Brooks and Lynch were right in their prime. 99 Sapp was legendarily good. Defense was stouter up the middle.
That's a good list, Kitna, George, Grbac, Batch and Chandler were good QBs back then. Frerotte was fine.
Is this a joke? Grbac is the only one of the bunch that didn’t blow balls in ‘99, going for 3,389 yards, 22 TD’s, and 15 picks with a paltry completion percentage of 58.9. Dilfer had a higher completion percentage that season, for fuck’s sake.
Jeff George was Cunningham’s backup.
Kitna was a good QB in the World League.
Chandler peaked in ‘98, and went 4-8 in ‘99.
Frerotte did squat in ‘99.
Charlie Batch? Lolz!!!!!!!!
1999 Jeff George vs teams other than the Bucs: 9-2, 22 TDs, 10 INTs. Vs the Bucs 1 TD and 2 INTs. In the playoffs that year he threw 7 TDs and 1 INT and they scored 64 points in 2 games.
1999 Jon Kitna vs teams other than the Bucs: 8-6, 23 TDs, 11 INTs. Vs the Bucs 0 TDs, 5 INTs. Before we played Seattle they were on a 5 game win streak averaging 28 points per game.
1999 Chris Chandler vs teams other than the Bucs: 4-7, 16 TDs, 9 INTs. Vs the Bucs 0 TDs, 2 INTs.
1999 Gus Frerrote vs teams other than the Bucs: 4-4, 9 TDs, 6 INTs. Vs the Bucs 0 TDs, 1 INT.
That's a good list, Kitna, George, Grbac, Batch and Chandler were good QBs back then. Frerotte was fine.
Is this a joke? Grbac is the only one of the bunch that didn’t blow balls in ‘99, going for 3,389 yards, 22 TD’s, and 15 picks with a paltry completion percentage of 58.9. Dilfer had a higher completion percentage that season, for fuck’s sake.
Jeff George was Cunningham’s backup.
Kitna was a good QB in the World League.
Chandler peaked in ‘98, and went 4-8 in ‘99.
Frerotte did squat in ‘99.
Charlie Batch? Lolz!!!!!!!!
1999 Jeff George vs teams other than the Bucs: 9-2, 22 TDs, 10 INTs. Vs the Bucs 1 TD and 2 INTs. In the playoffs that year he threw 7 TDs and 1 INT and they scored 64 points in 2 games.
1999 Jon Kitna vs teams other than the Bucs: 8-6, 23 TDs, 11 INTs. Vs the Bucs 0 TDs, 5 INTs. Before we played Seattle they were on a 5 game win streak averaging 28 points per game.
1999 Chris Chandler vs teams other than the Bucs: 4-7, 16 TDs, 9 INTs. Vs the Bucs 0 TDs, 2 INTs.
1999 Gus Frerrote vs teams other than the Bucs: 4-4, 9 TDs, 6 INTs. Vs the Bucs 0 TDs, 1 INT.
George did an admirable job coming in for Cunningham, but there is the reason he was the backup - and it's the same reason they decided to move forward with Dante Culpepper the very next season. George went on to be Brad Johnson's backup in Washington for the 2000 season. If what you are saying is true, he wouldn't have had any problems finding a starting gig. But that didn't happen. Reality happened.
Again, Kitna and Grbac are the only two guys that had any sort of decent statistical year. They still weren't "good QB's" in 1999. Trent Dilfer's completion percentage was better than both of those "good QB's" in 1999. That should be enough said, but I doubt it will be.
That's a good list, Kitna, George, Grbac, Batch and Chandler were good QBs back then. Frerotte was fine.
Is this a joke? Grbac is the only one of the bunch that didn’t blow balls in ‘99, going for 3,389 yards, 22 TD’s, and 15 picks with a paltry completion percentage of 58.9. Dilfer had a higher completion percentage that season, for fuck’s sake.
Jeff George was Cunningham’s backup.
Kitna was a good QB in the World League.
Chandler peaked in ‘98, and went 4-8 in ‘99.
Frerotte did squat in ‘99.
Charlie Batch? Lolz!!!!!!!!
1999 Jeff George vs teams other than the Bucs: 9-2, 22 TDs, 10 INTs. Vs the Bucs 1 TD and 2 INTs. In the playoffs that year he threw 7 TDs and 1 INT and they scored 64 points in 2 games.
1999 Jon Kitna vs teams other than the Bucs: 8-6, 23 TDs, 11 INTs. Vs the Bucs 0 TDs, 5 INTs. Before we played Seattle they were on a 5 game win streak averaging 28 points per game.
1999 Chris Chandler vs teams other than the Bucs: 4-7, 16 TDs, 9 INTs. Vs the Bucs 0 TDs, 2 INTs.
1999 Gus Frerrote vs teams other than the Bucs: 4-4, 9 TDs, 6 INTs. Vs the Bucs 0 TDs, 1 INT.
George did an admirable job coming in for Cunningham, but there is the reason he was the backup - and it's the same reason they decided to move forward with Dante Culpepper the very next season. George went on to be Brad Johnson's backup in Washington for the 2000 season. If what you are saying is true, he wouldn't have had any problems finding a starting gig. But that didn't happen. Reality happened.
Again, Kitna and Grbac are the only two guys that had any sort of decent statistical year. They still weren't "good QB's" in 1999. Trent Dilfer's completion percentage was better than both of those "good QB's" in 1999. That should be enough said, but I doubt it will be.
You're not getting away with discrediting the 1999 Vikings offense. They were tearing up the league, even with Jeff George. They came down here, got pick 6 'd immediately and would have had 3 freaking points if not for turnovers.
You're not getting away with discrediting the 1999 Vikings offense.
I'm not discrediting the '99 Viking offense. I'm discrediting Jeff George as a good QB in 1999. Him being a backup going in to 1999 and then again in 2000 should prove that point.
@jc5100 yes they had Abraham, but the ‘02 squad had Brian Kelly starting who tied for 1st in the league in INT’s.
They’re disrespected only because we’re Tampa. SamE reason the Bengals and Titans are always disrespected. The NFL doesn’t care about those city markets for whatever reason.
@jc5100 yes they had Abraham, but the ‘02 squad had Brian Kelly starting who tied for 1st in the league in INT’s.
Abraham, Barber, Kelly > Barber, Kelly, Smith
1999 team also had Dungy as HC, Herm as AHC/DBs and Lovie as LB coach vs 2002 team having Tomlin as DB coach.
The 2002 games without Brad Johnson (12-9 vs CAR, 7-17 vs PIT, 15-0 vs CHI) were what every game was like for the 1999 team.
Th greatest defense is the one beaten in the conference championship by the record-breaking offense known as the Greatest Show on Turf?
By a pass, no less?
:-)
The Sapp/Brooks/Kiffin defense was one of the best ever, over a sustained period. Literally, the namesake of a defensive approach that many teams would go on to try to emulate.
Th greatest defense is the one beaten in the conference championship by the record-breaking offense known as the Greatest Show on Turf?
By a pass, no less?
:-)
The Sapp/Brooks/Kiffin defense was one of the best ever, over a sustained period. Literally, the namesake of a defensive approach that many teams would go on to try to emulate.
1985 Bears played their conference championship vs the #26 offense in the league and their offense put up 17 points for them.
1999 Bucs played their conference championship vs maybe the #1 offense of all time and their offense put up 1 point for them (1 FG drive minus a safety). And had a back breaking turnover with a late lead.
