Hey guys, I'm not saying the kid doesn't have talent. What i'm saying is that the brand of football JFF plays right now will not work in the NFL. Doesn't mean he won't be a success but the running like a chicken with his head cut off stuff isn't going to work. He'll need to excel as a pocket passer 1st, then use the legs to improvise 2nd. Tight coverage makes him much much less effective as a passer and that worries me because that is the general trend in the NFL, guys aren't nearly as open as in college.
Hey guys, I'm not saying the kid doesn't have talent. What i'm saying is that the brand of football JFF plays right now will not work in the NFL
Have you watched the 49ers and Seahawks play? I personally think Kaep and Wilson are overrated (especially on this board) but that style of play does work in the NFL now. The NFL is taking a lot of college level play because the rules have changed.
And then you turn around and look at another elite defense that gets players drafted like crazy in Alabama and Manziel happens to tear them a new one in both games he played against them so I fail to see your point.OP, good job ignoring other games and stats to get your point across.
Well I do agree that Alabama's defense is elite, however their defense is built differently than LSU. Bama's front 7 are elite at the college level while their secondary proved to be a weakness and get exposed in their two losses at the end of the year. LSU on the other hand has a better secondary that was able to take away the jump ball to Evans. He had 4 catches for 51 against LSU and 7 for almost 300 against Alabama. Wide open receivers, JFF looks like an allstar. Not so wide open receivers and he doesn't. That is the point. Not so cherry picked it is?
Oh Bama's secondary isn't very good ok. Except for the numerous first round picks they've had from their secondary (Barron, Miller, Kirkpatrick, likely Clinton-Dix) and considering Saban's background is defensive backs. Sorry dude, you're full of shit.
Dee Milliner is the only one with any cover skills and if I remember correctly, he got benched this year at one point. So i'll stick to my original assessment, big and strong up front and a weakness in the secondary in coverage.
So why are NFL teams drafting these DB's from Bama haha?:)
So why are NFL teams drafting these DB's from Bama haha?:)
Huh?Am I to stop drafting DB's from Alabama because they haven't been as good as advertised this year or last year? No sir. The weakness of the Alabama defense, especially this year, is defensing the forward pass.
Dee Milliner is the only one with any cover skills and if I remember correctly, he got benched this year at one point. So i'll stick to my original assessment, big and strong up front and a weakness in the secondary in coverage.
Oh ok ok. Then explain to me why in 2012 Bama gave up 166 YPG in the air and LSU gave up 200 YPG in the air and this year Bama gave up 180 YPG in the air and LSU gave up 197 YPG in the air. Oh yea and both years thats near the top of college football. Despite the fact that Bama plays in the best conference in football and is often playing ahead, forcing teams to try comeback through the air. Your assessment is shit.
So why are NFL teams drafting these DB's from Bama haha?:)
Huh?Am I to stop drafting DB's from Alabama because they haven't been as good as advertised this year or last year? No sir. The weakness of the Alabama defense, especially this year, is defensing the forward pass.
The NFL is about the forward pass. Why draft guys that can't cover to play in the NFL?
The title of this thread is misleading, it should be "A shallow look from a different angle into the numbers behind JFF"
Dee Milliner is the only one with any cover skills and if I remember correctly, he got benched this year at one point. So i'll stick to my original assessment, big and strong up front and a weakness in the secondary in coverage.
Oh ok ok. Then explain to me why in 2012 Bama gave up 166 YPG in the air and LSU gave up 200 YPG in the air and this year Bama gave up 180 YPG in the air and LSU gave up 197 YPG in the air. Oh yea and both years thats near the top of college football. Despite the fact that Bama plays in the best conference in football and is often playing ahead, forcing teams to try comeback through the air. Your assessment is **CENSORED**.
I could list 10 reasons why, just refresh me for a second. Didn't we have a big discussion last year about how the Jet's pass defense was better without Revis? I'm sure we did. Scheme, gameplan, etc.. are all reasons that a team plays better or worse. What I'm telling you is that the raw talent and ability of the LSU secondary is superior to Alabama and that is the reason JFF has struggled. If you want to disagree, that's fine. My opinion remains that JFF as he plays today is not a great NFL prospect and should be taken with the idea that he is a 2-3 year prospect.
So why are NFL teams drafting these DB's from Bama haha?:)
Huh?Am I to stop drafting DB's from Alabama because they haven't been as good as advertised this year or last year? No sir. The weakness of the Alabama defense, especially this year, is defensing the forward pass.
The NFL is about the forward pass. Why draft guys that can't cover to play in the NFL?
I wouldn't personally. But hell the Browns traded up last year to take a slow RB at #4 so apparently we're smarter than most. Defensing the forward pass should be priority number one on defense. That's why I'm hoping we take the best cover Safety in the draft because that great Alabama defense has once again given us a below average forward pass defender in Safety Mark Barron.
Dee Milliner is the only one with any cover skills and if I remember correctly, he got benched this year at one point. So i'll stick to my original assessment, big and strong up front and a weakness in the secondary in coverage.
Oh ok ok. Then explain to me why in 2012 Bama gave up 166 YPG in the air and LSU gave up 200 YPG in the air and this year Bama gave up 180 YPG in the air and LSU gave up 197 YPG in the air. Oh yea and both years thats near the top of college football. Despite the fact that Bama plays in the best conference in football and is often playing ahead, forcing teams to try comeback through the air. Your assessment is **CENSORED**.
I think there's reasonable anecdotal evidence Alabama struggles against QBs who can actually pass. Alabama only played three real QBs in 2012 and Zach Mettenberger, Johnny Manziel, and Aaron Murray all had good games. What Alabama does best is murder sucky QBs.
Dee Milliner is the only one with any cover skills and if I remember correctly, he got benched this year at one point. So i'll stick to my original assessment, big and strong up front and a weakness in the secondary in coverage.
Oh ok ok. Then explain to me why in 2012 Bama gave up 166 YPG in the air and LSU gave up 200 YPG in the air and this year Bama gave up 180 YPG in the air and LSU gave up 197 YPG in the air. Oh yea and both years thats near the top of college football. Despite the fact that Bama plays in the best conference in football and is often playing ahead, forcing teams to try comeback through the air. Your assessment is **CENSORED**.
I could list 10 reasons why, just refresh me for a second. Didn't we have a big discussion last year about how the Jet's pass defense was better without Revis? I'm sure we did. Scheme, gameplan, etc.. are all reasons that a team plays better or worse. What I'm telling you is that the raw talent and ability of the LSU secondary is superior to Alabama and that is the reason JFF has struggled. If you want to disagree, that's fine. My opinion remains that JFF as he plays today is not a great NFL prospect and should be taken with the idea that he is a 2-3 year prospect.
Your opinion on how Manziel will do in the NFL is fine. There are a lot of people who think he will struggle. The issue here is that you are wrong on multiple fronts and you're contradicting yourself. First, Alabama has an elite secondary, an NFL style coaching staff and scheme, and the king of defensive backs in Nick Saban. Saban is the guy when it comes to defensive backs, so your opinion on Bama not having a good secondary is just flat out 100% wrong. Second, you just said yourself that stats could be misleading because of scheme, gameplan, etc. I am glad you see that, actually seriously good for you for seeing that because many people don't see that. You, however, went straight to stats in two games to make your initial argument so you are contradicting yourself. I wouldn't take Manziel's two legendary games against Bama to predict whether or not he would be good in the NFL, just like I wouldn't take his two shitty games against LSU. Like you just said, there is so much more that goes into it.
Dee Milliner is the only one with any cover skills and if I remember correctly, he got benched this year at one point. So i'll stick to my original assessment, big and strong up front and a weakness in the secondary in coverage.
Oh ok ok. Then explain to me why in 2012 Bama gave up 166 YPG in the air and LSU gave up 200 YPG in the air and this year Bama gave up 180 YPG in the air and LSU gave up 197 YPG in the air. Oh yea and both years thats near the top of college football. Despite the fact that Bama plays in the best conference in football and is often playing ahead, forcing teams to try comeback through the air. Your assessment is **CENSORED**.
I think there's reasonable anecdotal evidence Alabama struggles against QBs who can actually pass. Alabama only played three real QBs in 2012 and Zach Mettenberger, Johnny Manziel, and Aaron Murray all had good games. What Alabama does best is murder sucky QBs.
Thank you! FRG. More to your point..Mettenberger, Marshall and JFF all tore them up this year and posted very good passer ratings.Another reason why Bama gives up so few passing yards....look at the teams they play. Most are pro style offense and not the spread style like Oklahoma plays.Oh how did the Sooners QB do in the spread? Good question....Trevor Knight, whoever the hell that is, just went 32-44 for 350 yards and 4 TDs vs 1int.I rest my case that vaunted bama defense, not so good as stopping the forward pass huh?
That is the same argument used against Carr. That is very dangerous way to evaluate players because you have to evaluate the supporting cast. In Carr's case he doesn't really have anyone NFL bound while Manziel has a few. Does that mean Carr is supremely better than Manziel? I don't think that is logically sound.
Not so according to the Red Board. We evaluated Freeman and Glennon's performance against the quality of the opponent all the time. JFF is fair game, especially considering that his accomplishments are at a lower, albeit somewhat comparable level. Additionally, we evaluated our QBs performance without regard to the quality of the supporting case. Dumb, I know but it seems to be the norm. I believe they used the term "excuses" we supporting cast definiciencies were brought up. Therefore, Carr has no excuses!
