Your only shot is a trade back . If we stay at #7 there is literally no chance in holy hell Donald is even in the thought process. Believe that.
I think this is a common train of thought but it doesn't make sense to me. To me there are two distinct tiers from roughly 1-5 and then from 6-12, not precisely but around that depending on who you talk to. Donald is absolutely in that 6-12 tier. If we can't get Watkins, Mack, or Matthews, then why wouldn't we take Donald. He is equal to Evans value-wise and we can easily get a very good WR later in the draft. We can't be beholden to "needs" at the top of the draft. That's how you end up with Gaines Adams.
You had me until you mentioned Gaines. I realize he didn't work out, but he was both a need and realistically valued where he was taken.
Your only shot is a trade back . If we stay at #7 there is literally no chance in holy hell Donald is even in the thought process. Believe that.
I think this is a common train of thought but it doesn't make sense to me. To me there are two distinct tiers from roughly 1-5 and then from 6-12, not precisely but around that depending on who you talk to. Donald is absolutely in that 6-12 tier. If we can't get Watkins, Mack, or Matthews, then why wouldn't we take Donald. He is equal to Evans value-wise and we can easily get a very good WR later in the draft. We can't be beholden to "needs" at the top of the draft. That's how you end up with Gaines Adams.
You had me until you mentioned Gaines. I realize he didn't work out, but he was both a need and realistically valued where he was taken.
...and ironically Donald is NOT valued as high as many of you want to take him...
Your only shot is a trade back . If we stay at #7 there is literally no chance in holy hell Donald is even in the thought process. Believe that.
I think this is a common train of thought but it doesn't make sense to me. To me there are two distinct tiers from roughly 1-5 and then from 6-12, not precisely but around that depending on who you talk to. Donald is absolutely in that 6-12 tier. If we can't get Watkins, Mack, or Matthews, then why wouldn't we take Donald. He is equal to Evans value-wise and we can easily get a very good WR later in the draft. We can't be beholden to "needs" at the top of the draft. That's how you end up with Gaines Adams.
I like Donald just fine but would put him in a third tier behind Evans and others for the reason that he simply does not have the elite physical tools of the other top players at his positions.
Your only shot is a trade back . If we stay at #7 there is literally no chance in holy hell Donald is even in the thought process. Believe that.
I think this is a common train of thought but it doesn't make sense to me. To me there are two distinct tiers from roughly 1-5 and then from 6-12, not precisely but around that depending on who you talk to. Donald is absolutely in that 6-12 tier. If we can't get Watkins, Mack, or Matthews, then why wouldn't we take Donald. He is equal to Evans value-wise and we can easily get a very good WR later in the draft. We can't be beholden to "needs" at the top of the draft. That's how you end up with Gaines Adams.
You had me until you mentioned Gaines. I realize he didn't work out, but he was both a need and realistically valued where he was taken.
The fact that he was realistically valued at that spot isn't really the point. Adams was completely lost as a pro and sputtered despite being surrounded by some very good coaches. We evaluated him wrong and all the draftniks evaluated him wrong. My point was that we ended up taking a bad player at a critical spot because of a "need" at DE. We passed on a 1st ballot HoF running back because we had Cadillac. We passed on Patrick Willis because we had Ruud. We passed on LaRon Landry because we had Jermaine Phillips. These would have been very reasonable picks at the time.Don't pass on Donald because we have Clinton McDonald and Akeem Spence.
Your only shot is a trade back . If we stay at #7 there is literally no chance in holy hell Donald is even in the thought process. Believe that.
I think this is a common train of thought but it doesn't make sense to me. To me there are two distinct tiers from roughly 1-5 and then from 6-12, not precisely but around that depending on who you talk to. Donald is absolutely in that 6-12 tier. If we can't get Watkins, Mack, or Matthews, then why wouldn't we take Donald. He is equal to Evans value-wise and we can easily get a very good WR later in the draft. We can't be beholden to "needs" at the top of the draft. That's how you end up with Gaines Adams.
You had me until you mentioned Gaines. I realize he didn't work out, but he was both a need and realistically valued where he was taken.
Correct. Gaines was a vast need, and to hindsight about it is weak. The only good hindsighter is the one who admits he/she was wrong.
Your only shot is a trade back . If we stay at #7 there is literally no chance in holy hell Donald is even in the thought process. Believe that.
I think this is a common train of thought but it doesn't make sense to me. To me there are two distinct tiers from roughly 1-5 and then from 6-12, not precisely but around that depending on who you talk to. Donald is absolutely in that 6-12 tier. If we can't get Watkins, Mack, or Matthews, then why wouldn't we take Donald. He is equal to Evans value-wise and we can easily get a very good WR later in the draft. We can't be beholden to "needs" at the top of the draft. That's how you end up with Gaines Adams.
I like Donald just fine but would put him in a third tier behind Evans and others for the reason that he simply does not have the elite physical tools of the other top players at his positions.
What? His combine numbers were about as good as can be. They are elite in terms of prospects. He can flat out fly for a DT. He has longer arms than anticipated. He destroyed elite prospects in basic drills in senior bowl workouts. He benched like a tony mandarich. Dude has massive legs. The lower leg power this guy gets is going to wind up in his favor. Evans. Watkins. Manziel. Bridge. Donald. Any of these cats will be just fine. They are all stud prospects. Donald and McCoy on third and six would be hellish.
Your only shot is a trade back . If we stay at #7 there is literally no chance in holy hell Donald is even in the thought process. Believe that.
I think this is a common train of thought but it doesn't make sense to me. To me there are two distinct tiers from roughly 1-5 and then from 6-12, not precisely but around that depending on who you talk to. Donald is absolutely in that 6-12 tier. If we can't get Watkins, Mack, or Matthews, then why wouldn't we take Donald. He is equal to Evans value-wise and we can easily get a very good WR later in the draft. We can't be beholden to "needs" at the top of the draft. That's how you end up with Gaines Adams.
I like Donald just fine but would put him in a third tier behind Evans and others for the reason that he simply does not have the elite physical tools of the other top players at his positions.
What? His combine numbers were about as good as can be. They are elite in terms of prospects. He can flat out fly for a DT. He has longer arms than anticipated. He destroyed elite prospects in basic drills in senior bowl workouts. He benched like a tony mandarich. Dude has massive legs. The lower leg power this guy gets is going to wind up in his favor. Evans. Watkins. Manziel. Bridge. Donald. Any of these cats will be just fine. They are all stud prospects. Donald and McCoy on third and six would be hellish.
Donald is short, not terribly big, and has short arms for a DT. Think about it this way, how many NFL players would you compare Donald to? Again, I like Donald but there is risk with him because he doesn't fit the prototype. Same with Manziel. Where with someone like Evans, he IS the prototype.
Your only shot is a trade back . If we stay at #7 there is literally no chance in holy hell Donald is even in the thought process. Believe that.
Possibly. Hard to say tho. If they feel that he is the player who represents the most value and the greatest impact of available players, then they very well could take him at #7. I think there is plenty of evidence that NFL scouts don't exactly march to the exact same beat as some of the media draftniks in regards to these prospects. In '12, from picks #10-#15 you had guys like Gilmore, Poe, and Irvin come off the board and a lot of draft coverage guys and fans considered those guys as reaches or questionable.You can also look back at just the past 6-8 drafts and see plenty of guys who were drafted in the teens that no doubt should have been and were top 5 players in their respective drafts. Is Donald the main guy I want? No. I would take several players over him, but we don't pick until 7, and if the well is dry so to speak and we are staring at the two OT prospects, Gilbert, and Barr as the perceived "best available"...I would take Donald.
I think Donald will grade out higher than Evans on the Bucs board. To me, if they take Evans at 7 over Donald, they are drafting for need and passing on the better player. Perhaps the Bucs don't have it graded out that way, but knowing Lovie I would suspect they do. Also, I wouldn't be shocked to see the Falcons surprise people and take Donald at six. Peria Jerry has been a huge disappointment and they have said they are not switching to a 3-4....so they could really use a guy like Donald on their D-line. Everyone seems to be fixated on Clowney or Mack for them, but Clowney will be gone, and Mack could be too. I pray it doesn't happen, but I think it's a legit possibility that you don't hear about. Also, the idea that he would be a great pick if we trade back to 10 or 11....but he is a bad pick at 7, is ridiculous. The draft is nowhere near that exact of a science. Besides, if he does end up being Geno Atkins 2.0, then he's worthy of the #1 pick and he's a steal no matter where you take him.
His arms measured just fine. Him being short is not a negative. He has tremendously thick legs. Look at them. And his speed AND phone booth speed are flat out elite for a 3hundo DT. His bench reps were great. I mean as good as you could want out of a rook, with long arms. His production is there. The practice sessions were maxxed out. He is a beast. I would love it if the Bucs picked this kid up. He has as much upside as ANY guy you want in this draft. How do I know this? Mason Foster. That and everyone has a bust factor. Clowney has a bigger bust factor to him than AD, IMO.
I'm on the AD bandwagon. I want him in a Bucs uniform badly. Donald and McCoy coming up the middle would make o lines piss themselves. Especially now that we have Michael Johnson on the edge.
Yep. I hope we go Donald, OG, WR, QB, WR, WR, WR. ;)[/quote Where do I sign up for this draft........I would be very happy if that was how it went!!!!
His arms measured just fine. Him being short is not a negative. He has tremendously thick legs. Look at them. And his speed AND phone booth speed are flat out elite for a 3hundo DT. His bench reps were great. I mean as good as you could want out of a rook, with long arms. His production is there. The practice sessions were maxxed out. He is a beast. I would love it if the Bucs picked this kid up. He has as much upside as ANY guy you want in this draft. How do I know this? Mason Foster. That and everyone has a bust factor. Clowney has a bigger bust factor to him than AD, IMO.
+ all of this
His arms measured just fine. Him being short is not a negative. He has tremendously thick legs. Look at them. And his speed AND phone booth speed are flat out elite for a 3hundo DT. His bench reps were great. I mean as good as you could want out of a rook, with long arms. His production is there. The practice sessions were maxxed out. He is a beast. I would love it if the Bucs picked this kid up. He has as much upside as ANY guy you want in this draft. How do I know this? Mason Foster. That and everyone has a bust factor. Clowney has a bigger bust factor to him than AD, IMO.
For context, Donald ran a 4.68 forty, rep 35 at the combine, and had 7.11 3 cone. His combine numbers blow Gerald McCoy out of the water. His speed and power measurables are as good or better than Robert Quinn, Greg Hardy, and Geno Atkins. Everything except his weight. Look at it this way. Pretend we're going to draft Donald to primarily play LE, which he played alot of at Pitt and would play significant snaps for us anyway. But pretend. Suddenly he's one of the bigger ends in the league, and he's still a pass rushing monster! 15 pounds either way isn't going to make or break a guy if they play well at that weight. I don't concede this at all, but let's also pretend we get the worst case scenario with Donald: he gets pushed around on early downs. He might shoot the gaps for a few TFL a game but in general teams try to run at him and succeed. However, we just happen to have 3 elite run defending lineman lining up around him AND he stills gets us 8 sacks a year on 3rd downs. I'm not convinced we'll take him. I hope we do but I don't know. That said I really do feel like he's going to be a star in the NFL. He's too versatile and too skilled not to be.
No, it wouldn't be hellish Finky. Donald would just get swallowed up in a double, same way McDonald will , as McCoy does his thing. They'll be no noticeable difference. Same way there was no noticeable difference when Booger got hurt and we won the Superbowl with chartric Darby.Look up the Under alignment. Understand why the 3 tech is important in the pass rush and the nose is nothing but a space eater.
Think about it this way, how many NFL players would you compare Donald to? Again, I like Donald but there is risk with him because he doesn't fit the prototype. Same with Manziel. Where with someone like Evans, he IS the prototype.
who is the prototype?Would john randle be a favorable comparison?
jeanclaud, I don't disagree that DE was a need in 2007.You are missing my point (first of all, I agree with you that McDonald is not an impediment to taking Donald, and I'm all for it).Gaines could have been justified on either a "need" basis or "best" player available basis. You want to discount the evaluation at the time - fair enough. They - and virtually the entire NFL - were wrong about Gaines. But that doesn't mean that he wasn't legitimately among the 3-4 best players available at the time he was taken. Guys with elite talent fail all the time. You are using hindsight to make your case.
