serious question, what does clowney do better? Rush the QB? Stop the run? Look better in tights? Make excuses?
serious question, what does clowney do better? Rush the QB? Stop the run? Look better in tights? Make excuses?
What does Clowney do better than Donald? We won't know what he really does better until he's been in the NFL for a year or two, but on paper Clowney has the prototypical height, long arms, and big hands to bend around athletic offensive tackles on the edge. Donlad's shorter and squattier body type is more ideal to beating slower interior linemen off the snap and getting under the pads of a less athletic, poor-bending player.
I like Donald, but do we need to burn a 1st round pick on a DT with so many other holes on this squad?He is a beast though...but a bit undersize to play NT....Drafting him would be like drafting a replacement for McCoy....There should be better NT prospects in the later rounds or UDFA...
So exactly what would be the problem having 2 McCoys playing the interior?
The problem is who would play Nose....They are both 3 technique guys....
It's been said that he can play LE too and then could be kicked inside on pass rush downs. I'm all for picking him. He will likely be there when we pick too.
serious question, what does clowney do better? Rush the QB? Stop the run? Look better in tights? Make excuses?
What does Clowney do better than Donald? We won't know what he really does better until he's been in the NFL for a year or two, but on paper Clowney has the prototypical height, long arms, and big hands to bend around athletic offensive tackles on the edge. Donlad's shorter and squattier body type is more ideal to beating slower interior linemen off the snap and getting under the pads of a less athletic, poor-bending player.
So in other words, Clowney looks better in his uniform.
serious question, what does clowney do better? Rush the QB? Stop the run? Look better in tights? Make excuses?
What does Clowney do better than Donald? We won't know what he really does better until he's been in the NFL for a year or two, but on paper Clowney has the prototypical height, long arms, and big hands to bend around athletic offensive tackles on the edge. Donlad's shorter and squattier body type is more ideal to beating slower interior linemen off the snap and getting under the pads of a less athletic, poor-bending player.
So in other words, Clowney looks better in his uniform.
To a certain extent Clowney is being elevated because of his physical abilities, but there are only a few human beings on the planet with the potential to make Joe Thomas, Ryan Clady, Joe Staley, and the very best left tackles have a bad day. I like Aaron Donald a lot, but unfortunately he more than likely does not have the physical ability to beat the best left tackles. He's simply too short and doesn't have the length to really challenge those guys who have the total package. He's going to make his living beating interior linemen and right tackles because those guys aren't good enough to play left tackle. Anyways, there's really no reason to compare the two because they don't play the same position. This discussion is irrelevant.
serious question, what does clowney do better? Rush the QB? Stop the run? Look better in tights? Make excuses?
What does Clowney do better than Donald? We won't know what he really does better until he's been in the NFL for a year or two, but on paper Clowney has the prototypical height, long arms, and big hands to bend around athletic offensive tackles on the edge. Donlad's shorter and squattier body type is more ideal to beating slower interior linemen off the snap and getting under the pads of a less athletic, poor-bending player.
So in other words, Clowney looks better in his uniform.
To a certain extent Clowney is being elevated because of his physical abilities, but there are only a few human beings on the planet with the potential to make Joe Thomas, Ryan Clady, Joe Staley, and the very best left tackles have a bad day. I like Aaron Donald a lot, but unfortunately he more than likely does not have the physical ability to beat the best left tackles. He's simply too short and doesn't have the length to really challenge those guys who have the total package. He's going to make his living beating interior linemen and right tackles because those guys aren't good enough to play left tackle. Anyways, there's really no reason to compare the two because they don't play the same position. This discussion is irrelevant.
I think you are making the same mistake that has been repeated over and over in this thread. You are talking like Donald is just your typical stocky DT when the truth is he is an enigma and most people really don't understand the type of player he is. The biggest misconception is that he is this stout little bowling ball with short arms. His arms are almost 33" long and he is very lean for a DT. He's thick as hell but it's all muscle.His combine numbers were better than most LBs. His 3 cone time of 7.11 is ridiculous for a DT. Only big man I can think of that had a better 3 cone time in the last decade is JJ Watt. His 10 yard split of 1.56 was also amazing for a DT and just happens to be identical to Clowney, Barr, and Mack's time. So even though he is 20-30lbs bigger than those guys he covers 10 yards in the exact same amount of time. Suh, McCoy, and even Geno Atkins didn't come close to that time.His 40 yard dash time was off the charts ridiculous. People were fawning over Clowney's 40 time when 265lbs pass rushers run a 4.53 quite often. Meanwhile Donald runs a 4.68 which is probably the best 40 time for a DT in the history of the combine. I believe Warren Sapp was the fastest at 4.69.Even past all that, if you watch the guy play from the edge in games, watch him in practice at the Senior Bowl, watch him run his position drills at the combine and pro day....it's easy to see he has the arm length, the quickness, the power, the technique, and the ability to turn his hips and lean that is needed to be a great outside rusher. So when people start talking about his limitations or putting him in some sort of box and saying he is just a DT and he can only do these things....I cringe. Donald is the real deal and if he was 3 inches taller he'd be the #1 pick. As it is, he'll almost certainly be a top 10 pick and could still end up being a top 5. Some team that understands the value of an elite, once in a decade pass rusher will grab him and be very happy for many years.Instead of think of Donald as a quick DT, people should realize he is more like a very powerful DE. He has all the traits of the best outside pass rushers in the league minus 3 inches of height....but he also has the power of an elite DT which is why he can play anywhere on the line and still dominate. The Geno Adkins comparison is legit, but personally I think the perfect comparison is Dwight Freeney. Donald has 15-20lbs on Freeney, but they look very similar on film.
Again, he may be a once in a decade elite interior and strongside pass rusher, but the best left tackles get paid what they do because they are built like mountains, move like ballerinas, and have arms like tree trunks. Joe Thomas, Ryan Clady, and Joe Staley weren't at the Senior Bowl. Donlad has never played against them. We know what the best weakside edge rushers look like. They look like Robert Quinn, Jared Allen, Julius Peppers, and John Abraham. They have speed, explosiveness, and length. Aaron Donald doesn't look like those guys. He has speed and explosiveness but not length. He'll have to make his living beating teams' second best offensive linemen. It's not an insult. It's just the way it is.
Anyways, there's really no reason to compare the two because they don't play the same position. This discussion is irrelevant.
i understand and agree with you about the body types. But we can certainly compare them. They wouldn't be playing the same position, both they are both DL at the top of the draft so I think a comparison is valid. Not at how they would beat LTs, but about what they actually bring to the table.For all of clwoneys prototype size and length, he got 3 sacks. Sometimes football players are just players. Sometimes drive is more important than talent. And possibly donald is more versatile, which would be valid.
Nosetackle : McDonald > Donald.Undertake : Jernigan/Easley = Donald.Pick not happening. The hype has reached ridiculous proportions. Put this nonsense to bed.
Again, he may be a once in a decade elite interior and strongside pass rusher, but the best left tackles get paid what they do because they are built like mountains, move like ballerinas, and have arms like tree trunks. Joe Thomas, Ryan Clady, and Joe Staley weren't at the Senior Bowl. Donlad has never played against them. We know what the best weakside edge rushers look like. They look like Robert Quinn, Jared Allen, Julius Peppers, and John Abraham. They have speed, explosiveness, and length. Aaron Donald doesn't look like those guys. He has speed and explosiveness but not length. He'll have to make his living beating teams' second best offensive linemen. It's not an insult. It's just the way it is.
where does michael johnson fit into this?
Anyways, there's really no reason to compare the two because they don't play the same position. This discussion is irrelevant.
i understand and agree with you about the body types. But we can certainly compare them. They wouldn't be playing the same position, both they are both DL at the top of the draft so I think a comparison is valid. Not at how they would beat LTs, but about what they actually bring to the table.For all of clwoneys prototype size and length, he got 3 sacks. Sometimes football players are just players. Sometimes drive is more important than talent. And possibly donald is more versatile, which would be valid.
I'm not judging any of these players. I'm just explaining the way things are. For a long time, people have valued weakside edge pass rushers as the most valuable part of a pass rush. I don't make the rules. I'm just describing how it is.
]I'm not judging any of these players. I'm just explaining the way things are. For a long time, people have valued weakside edge pass rushers as the most valuable part of a pass rush. I don't make the rules. I'm just describing how it is.
no one disagrees, but I'm not sure how it affects the discussion. Being tall and long doesn't make you a better player, even if RE is more valued than DT or LE.
Again, he may be a once in a decade elite interior and strongside pass rusher, but the best left tackles get paid what they do because they are built like mountains, move like ballerinas, and have arms like tree trunks. Joe Thomas, Ryan Clady, and Joe Staley weren't at the Senior Bowl. Donlad has never played against them. We know what the best weakside edge rushers look like. They look like Robert Quinn, Jared Allen, Julius Peppers, and John Abraham. They have speed, explosiveness, and length. Aaron Donald doesn't look like those guys. He has speed and explosiveness but not length. He'll have to make his living beating teams' second best offensive linemen. It's not an insult. It's just the way it is.
What about Dwight Freeney? Robert Mathis? Charles Johnson? Elvis Dumervil? Junior Galette? Cameron Wake? Olivier Vernon? Trent Cole? Tamba Hali? Your idea that great outside pass rushers have to be 6'6" with long tree limbs for legs and arms is just not true. Those things are of course helpful. Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, and of course everyone's favorite Clown has those traits and that gives them a big leg up....but there are plenty of great pass rushers that get it done at 6'2" or less. You are right about one thing. Donald has never played 1 on 1 with LTs in the NFL so it is impossible to say he can succeed at that. It is also impossible to say Clowny can succeed at that or that either guy can't. You are just taking your idea that an great DE has to look a certain way and projecting that Donald can't do it. Truth is quickness, power, and technique is what matters. Clowney's arms being 1 1/8" longer isn't gonna be the difference maker. Clowney being 5 inches taller simply means he doesn't have the natural leverage that Donald does. What we do know is that Donald is every bit as quick as Clowney, as proven by thier identical 10 yard splits.....and we do know that Donald is stronger as proven by his 35 bench reps and his legs being twice the size of Clowney's.....so what it comes down to imo is who wants it more? Who is gonna put forth more effort during the week and who is going to give more on game day? Who has better balance and technique? To me the answer to all these questions, is Donald. Hence my stance that Donald is the best pass rusher in the draft and why I would take Donald over Clowney.
For the record I'm not personally singing the praises of Clowney. He may be a total bust. I'm just describing why the people who like him, like him.