Beast.
Anthony McFarland6'0"300 lbsDrafted as UT (Sapp's replacement)Decent at NT, blew chunks at UTYou guys argue over some of the dumbest crap.
I think you are making the same mistake that has been repeated over and over in this thread. You are talking like Donald is just your typical stocky DT when the truth is he is an enigma and most people really don't understand the type of player he is. The biggest misconception is that he is this stout little bowling ball with short arms. His arms are almost 33" long and he is very lean for a DT. He's thick as hell but it's all muscle.His combine numbers were better than most LBs. His 3 cone time of 7.11 is ridiculous for a DT. Only big man I can think of that had a better 3 cone time in the last decade is JJ Watt. His 10 yard split of 1.56 was also amazing for a DT and just happens to be identical to Clowney, Barr, and Mack's time. So even though he is 20-30lbs bigger than those guys he covers 10 yards in the exact same amount of time. Suh, McCoy, and even Geno Atkins didn't come close to that time.His 40 yard dash time was off the charts ridiculous. People were fawning over Clowney's 40 time when 265lbs pass rushers run a 4.53 quite often. Meanwhile Donald runs a 4.68 which is probably the best 40 time for a DT in the history of the combine. I believe Warren Sapp was the fastest at 4.69.Even past all that, if you watch the guy play from the edge in games, watch him in practice at the Senior Bowl, watch him run his position drills at the combine and pro day....it's easy to see he has the arm length, the quickness, the power, the technique, and the ability to turn his hips and lean that is needed to be a great outside rusher. So when people start talking about his limitations or putting him in some sort of box and saying he is just a DT and he can only do these things....I cringe. Donald is the real deal and if he was 3 inches taller he'd be the #1 pick. As it is, he'll almost certainly be a top 10 pick and could still end up being a top 5. Some team that understands the value of an elite, once in a decade pass rusher will grab him and be very happy for many years.Instead of think of Donald as a quick DT, people should realize he is more like a very powerful DE. He has all the traits of the best outside pass rushers in the league minus 3 inches of height....but he also has the power of an elite DT which is why he can play anywhere on the line and still dominate. The Geno Adkins comparison is legit, but personally I think the perfect comparison is Dwight Freeney. Donald has 15-20lbs on Freeney, but they look very similar on film.
On the DE speed, no they don't. Since 2006 4 defensive linemen have posted faster official 40 times at the combine. They weighed: 241, 245, 245, 248. The next closest 260+ lb defensive linemen since 2006 is Hunt at 4.60. I want to agree with you that he can play end. Can you show me? Again, he played a decent amount of snaps in the film I've watched against tackles. I have not seen anywhere near the dominance he displays from the inside on film. Please link me some dominant DE snaps.Also, on the 3 cone. Kony Ealy ran 6.83 this year @ 273. Hunt and Ansah last year were at or better and over 270. Jake Bequette ran a 6.90 @ 274 in 2012. Fletcher Cox ran a 7.07 that year @ 298. In 2011, you mentioned Watt, Cam Jordan ran a 7.07 @ 287. Fairly was close with a 7.14 @ 291. Really, there are quite a few bigger linemen close to or at that 3 cone time. It's good, no question, but don't try to pass it off as other worldly.
I want to agree with you that he can play end. Can you show me? Again, he played a decent amount of snaps in the film I've watched against tackles. I have not seen anywhere near the dominance he displays from the inside on film. Please link me some dominant DE snaps.
I'm pretty sure someone argued with me a few years ago about how Gerald McCoy would be a great DE and I said he doesn't have the right body type or physical skills and of course the person didn't want to hear it. Here we are now and McCoy is a great DT, just like every said would be his natural position. Football didn't just get invented yesterday. We know what the good players at different positions are supposed to look like. It's not just a bunch of coincidences.
Instead of think of Donald as a quick DT, people should realize he is more like a very powerful DE. He has all the traits of the best outside pass rushers in the league minus 3 inches of height....but he also has the power of an elite DT which is why he can play anywhere on the line and still dominate. The Geno Adkins comparison is legit, but personally I think the perfect comparison is Dwight Freeney. Donald has 15-20lbs on Freeney, but they look very similar on film.
I think you are *far* too quick to compare prospects with Freeney. Yes, this is only the second time since 2010 you've done so. I stand by my statement.
The Geno Adkins comparison is legit, but personally I think the perfect comparison is Dwight Freeney. Donald has 15-20lbs on Freeney, but they look very similar on film.
I love Donald, and can certainly see Geno Adktins, but Dwight Freeney? C'mon. He doesn't come off the edge like Freeney at all.
I want to agree with you that he can play end. Can you show me? Again, he played a decent amount of snaps in the film I've watched against tackles. I have not seen anywhere near the dominance he displays from the inside on film. Please link me some dominant DE snaps.
I'm pretty sure someone argued with me a few years ago about how Gerald McCoy would be a great DE and I said he doesn't have the right body type or physical skills and of course the person didn't want to hear it. Here we are now and McCoy is a great DT, just like every said would be his natural position. Football didn't just get invented yesterday. We know what the good players at different positions are supposed to look like. It's not just a bunch of coincidences.
Agreed - and there was more than a one person talking that GMAC as DE nonsense. I haven't watched every snap of Donald's career, but I've seen entire games. He's an absolute beast inside. He has some sacks on the games I've watched outside, but those sack plays are fairly pedestrian - they are typically as much due to poor OT play and Donald's motor than they are about a dynamic edge-rush game. Just about all those smaller DEs JD mentions bend the edge - Donald really doesn't. When he's outside, he's basically bull-rushing. That's fine, but that's not typically what people look for in DEs at the top of the draft. I think the best case scenario for him is maybe Charles Johnson (I believe JD has used that example before). Another thing - Donald does have long arms FOR HIS HEIGHT. But they aren't really long arms in terms of matching up on the outside in the NFL, where virtually every OT will have a reach advantage over him. That reach is going to negate some of his natural leverage and first step-quickness. I'm actually quite fine with him as our pick as I'm a huge fan, but I see him as an inside player - not because he's incapable of doing other things, but because it's not close to the best use of him.
Also, on the 3 cone. Kony Ealy ran 6.83 this year @ 273. Hunt and Ansah last year were at or better and over 270. Jake Bequette ran a 6.90 @ 274 in 2012. Fletcher Cox ran a 7.07 that year @ 298. In 2011, you mentioned Watt, Cam Jordan ran a 7.07 @ 287. Fairly was close with a 7.14 @ 291. Really, there are quite a few bigger linemen close to or at that 3 cone time. It's good, no question, but don't try to pass it off as other worldly.
I wasn't making it out to be otherworldly. I said "JJ Watt if the only big man I can think of" because I didn't go research it and look it up. I simply said it was great for a DT....which it is. If you'll notice, all the names we are throwing around are great and most of them are DEs. Now his 4.68 forty time.....that was otherworldly. DTs just don't do that.
For what it's worth, Donald's arms are 32 5/8". Clowneys are 34.5". http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/aaron-donald?id=2543485 http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/jadeveon-clowney?id=2543456
serious question, what does clowney do better? Rush the QB? Stop the run? Look better in tights? Make excuses?
I think this is a somewhat interesting question (although clearly they are totally different players), but I'm going to re-frame it a bit, to "what makes Clowney a better prospect." I'm not going to get into work ethic or attitude because I don't have point of reference. I know that Donald appears to be better on this front, but there's so much misinformation and hearsay about Clowney I don't know how to assess Clowney. Suffice it to say Donald sounds like an A+ on that front, and Clowney somewhere below that - how far away from A+ he is matters, but this is something teams are better suited to find out than we are - in large part because what leaks out about players to us are usually lies. I think the key thing is this - Donald is already pretty polished. As Steve White has pointed out, he does a lot of things technique wise the right way and I believe he mentioned he does a lot of things pros don't do but should. This is a good thing - it probably means he hits the ground running. But conversely Clowney is still - to my eyes - pretty raw. He's by no means a finished product. If' he's coachable and if he gets paired with a good coach and/or a mentor, the kid has a chance to be very, very, special. Here's what Steve White said..."It's also because he is still so raw that makes him so attractive as the top overall pick. Unless we find out that Clowney repeatedly refused to learn new things, he should be viewed as a ball of clay just waiting to be molded into an ass-kicking, pass-rushing monster."
Another way to look at it is what happens if Clowney and Donald don't reach their potentials to be great players and are merely good players? What happens if instead of being the next Geno Atkins, Donald is the next Jonathan Babineaux? Now I've been a fan of Babineaux for a long time, but most people don't know too much about him and his max earning potential was $5-6 million per year. What happens if instead of being the next Robert Quinn, Clowney is the next Michael Johnson? He'd already be franchised once and now making $8 million per year. An "average" Clowney is worth more than an "average" Donald.
Agreed - in fact, ex-scout Louis Riddick at ESPN - who absolutely loves Donald (maybe more than JD) admitted on twitter that DT is still the 6th most important position in the game (obviously, that could vary by team, but those were his words).
Donald is Dwight Freeney now...bwahahahaha!Donaldsexuals off the rails completely now.
Also, on the 3 cone. Kony Ealy ran 6.83 this year @ 273. Hunt and Ansah last year were at or better and over 270. Jake Bequette ran a 6.90 @ 274 in 2012. Fletcher Cox ran a 7.07 that year @ 298. In 2011, you mentioned Watt, Cam Jordan ran a 7.07 @ 287. Fairly was close with a 7.14 @ 291. Really, there are quite a few bigger linemen close to or at that 3 cone time. It's good, no question, but don't try to pass it off as other worldly.
I wasn't making it out to be otherworldly. I said "JJ Watt if the only big man I can think of" because I didn't go research it and look it up. I simply said it was great for a DT....which it is. If you'll notice, all the names we are throwing around are great and most of them are DEs. Now his 4.68 forty time.....that was otherworldly. DTs just don't do that.
Agree. Think he could be one of the better in the NFL. He moves fabulously well for a man his size. Love Donald at DT. That's not what we were just talking about though was it? Back to the 3 cone, I just went back a few years on that. Like I said, it's obviously above average for a DT. Not as much so as for example Clowney's 40 time would be among true 3 down defensive ends, but definitely well above average positional prospect.
serious question, what does clowney do better? Rush the QB? Stop the run? Look better in tights? Make excuses?
I think this is a somewhat interesting question (although clearly they are totally different players), but I'm going to re-frame it a bit, to "what makes Clowney a better prospect." I'm not going to get into work ethic or attitude because I don't have point of reference. I know that Donald appears to be better on this front, but there's so much misinformation and hearsay about Clowney I don't know how to assess Clowney. Suffice it to say Donald sounds like an A+ on that front, and Clowney somewhere below that - how far away from A+ he is matters, but this is something teams are better suited to find out than we are - in large part because what leaks out about players to us are usually lies. I think the key thing is this - Donald is already pretty polished. As Steve White has pointed out, he does a lot of things technique wise the right way and I believe he mentioned he does a lot of things pros don't do but should. This is a good thing - it probably means he hits the ground running. But conversely Clowney is still - to my eyes - pretty raw. He's by no means a finished product. If' he's coachable and if he gets paired with a good coach and/or a mentor, the kid has a chance to be very, very, special. Here's what Steve White said..."It's also because he is still so raw that makes him so attractive as the top overall pick. Unless we find out that Clowney repeatedly refused to learn new things, he should be viewed as a ball of clay just waiting to be molded into an ass-kicking, pass-rushing monster."
agree with all of this. Clowney is certainly a better prospect. But he is not as good a player. He hasn't been coachable yet, so what changes now? As much potential as he has, and he was held to 3 sacks. The guy just does what he wants. Which is great at times, and invisible at others. But teams are always game planning for him.
