They made choices out of loyalty, out of familiarity. They were the wrong choices. They may try to get clean by firing people, but they aren't clean.
Bowles chose Grizzard over an outside OC. This is now confirmed to be the wrong choice. What more important choice does a HC make than his coordinator from the other side of the ball?
Mayfield vouched for Grizzard. Had to. Otherwise Grizzard would never have been hired. Now Baker will get his 9th OC in 9 years or whatever.
Licht lobbied for Bowles' extension. Had to. Otherwise he'd never have gotten that extension. Now IMO this is the reason Bowles wasn't fired. Licht is tied to the decision to keep Bowles because he's the reason Bowles got an extension. And the extension is the reason Bowles wasn't fired. The Glazers made a committment they're not ready to bail out on just one year later.
Licht signed off on Grizzard. Now he has to find an OC when the HC has the hottest hotseat in the league going into 2026.
The Glazers gave the extension to Bowles and Licht. Now they may be regretting that decision, but they feel they to stick with it. It doesn't look good for a business to abandon a plan in such a short time after committing to it. But now they have the fans up in arms.
In the words of Denzell in Glory "We're all wrapped up in it. Ain't nobody clean. Be nice to get clean though" They can fire people. They can review, reset, reorganize, reshuffle, but they're still all wrapped up in it. They made the wrong choices and the consequences of those wrong choices are not going away that easily.
In the words of Denzell in Glory "We're all wrapped up in it. Ain't nobody clean. Be nice to get clean though"
Great quote, scene and movie
Not sure why they thought it was necessary to extend Licht and Bowles, like I don’t see why the 2 need to be connected
I don’t see why the 2 need to be connected
Who knows, but as I've posted before one reasonable response would be that Bowles is perceived a s team player inside OBP because:
1) he took over the total sheet show of 2022 when it was sprung on him at the end of March and
2) in 2023 and arguably 2024 he made due with a team in rebuild/dead cap mode.
Licht has said as much and its not hard to imagine Arians stepping in recently and pointing all that out AGAIN
Not sure why they thought it was necessary to extend Licht and Bowles, like I don’t see why the 2 need to be connected
They don’t. Most knew it was foolish then. Most know it was foolish now
Thanks for posting this. I was just thinking we needed another anti Bowles thread
Yours is the only post on this thread that only mentions Bowles. There's no way you can intepret this thread to be singling out Bowles.Thanks for posting this. I was just thinking we needed another anti Bowles thread
I don’t see why the 2 need to be connected
Who knows, but as I've posted before one reasonable response would be that Bowles is perceived a s team player inside OBP because:
1) he took over the total sheet show of 2022 when it was sprung on him at the end of March and
2) in 2023 and arguably 2024 he made due with a team in rebuild/dead cap mode.
Licht has said as much and its not hard to imagine Arians stepping in recently and pointing all that out AGAIN
i think most people remember 2022 differently. Sure, he didnt get to pick his staff, mainly the OC who won a Superbowl and had a franchise high 13 wins the year prior, but he inherited a pretty good team. The combination of Brady not wanting to take hits, Leftwich clealry being assisted by Arians the years prior, and retirements/injuries/mental breakdowns of Gronk, Marpet, Jensen, and AB didnt help matters.
that being said, 8-9 was way under expectations, i would say 11-6 was likely the expectation that year.
i think most people remember 2022 differently.
Well, differently yes but my version is closer to actual reality, right?
I think you have posted many times that Vegas expected them to win the Super Bowl. I assume you did too? maybe because of that? That is when Brady comes back. The mistake though is odds are meant to SELL. Odds are an effort to bring in betters who gladly pay a fee to bet. Brady is an easy sell in March of 2022.
But that is not how teams actually work on the field and it is nearly an HISTORICAL FACT that almost all great players stay at least one season too long. Montana, closer to home Brooks etc.
Here's the easiest way to see the difference though . .
Brady comes to the team in 2020 and they have the now legendary Berkeley Prep sessions and win a Super Bowl. If you don't understand the Berkley Prep reference watch the Amazon show. When Brady comes back LATE in 2022 not only do they NOT have the Berkley Prep session they have instead Kraft's wedding, Brady in the Caribbean . .. a team destined to fail because the single largest force is not even close to the 2020 all-in version and because "Gronk, Marpet, Jensen, and AB didnt help matters."
If the 2022 Bucs team was ever really a SB team . . . Gronk comes back. Not even close. He knew.
If you have been around any sport for a while and you see a STAR PLAYER return prompt a coaching exit that is not a good thing for a TEAM. Problem BEFORE the season even starts and the problem is NOT Leftwich calling plays without Arians, its Brady not under Arians or anyone. Brady is the power of the 2022 team, not that HC. IF YOU DOUBT THAT THEN REFRESH YOUR MEMORY WITH THIS:
The 2022 team OPENED the season with a convincing win against the Cowboys largely led by RUNNING LEONARD FOURNETTE.
The 2022 team CLOSED the season with an embarrassing playoff loss to the same Cowboys . . with Brady throwing the ball 66 times.
Sure, he didnt get to pick his staff,
Bowles is not going to turn down the HC job in 2022, but if the Bucs advertised their HC job as "we want a HC we can hire on March 30th so you have to accept the staff that is in place at that time" they probably do not get a single applicant, LOL. Certainly not an experienced one. Harbaugh reportedly wants control of the entire team he goes to. LOL
***
Badabing, all of your posts are about how things turned out relative to EXPECTATIONS. Have you considered that the basis for the INTERNAL expectation might be off?
I think you once posted about 2022 that Bowles killed Brady, gave him his only losing season etc. That is fine if that is your opinion, but when you look at things now WITH HINDSIGHT doesn't it tell you that the owners and Licht certainly did NOT share that opinion? Not at all. The exact opposite, right?
If your opinion about 2022 is off (Bowles killed Brady v Bowles making best of a bad situation) then everything after 2022 must not make sense? Why did they keep Bowles for 2023, allow him to hire his own coaches? Why might they view 2023 as a an unexpectedly successful year etc etc.
The answer is: they don't think Bowles killed Brady they think (and Licht clearly thinks) Bowles is/was a good team soldier (a point I bet Arians made a few days ago) and a SUCCESSFUL one at that because he found Canales, Mayfield (the Bucs drafted Trask for an expected rebuild) and even Coen . . and won with them. Again, Licht said publicly that Bowles had done great with what he had to work with. LICHT MIGHT BE WRONG ABOUT THAT . . . but talk about a window into the OBP deliberations.
By comparison, the "loudest" anti-Bowles voices here have said he should have been fired in 2022 and 2023 and 2024 ("injuries dont matter" lol) . .. that was never going to happen . . they have seen it not happen . . BUT NEVER MODIFIED THEIR OWN TAKE ON THE SITUATION.
That is the world of sports fans, where a fan's opinion (expectation) is "truth" and reality is just shaped to protect the opinion. Bowles retained in 2025 = Glazers are penny pinchers or DEI . . something OTHER THAN football . . because those division championships were "not really division championships" and the 2025 season felt more like 3-14 with that season ending collapse."
Maybe the Glazers (and Arians) . . . disagree . . maybe they have a different take . . .from 2022 to now
It is possible . ..
Maybe the Glazers (and Arians) . . . disagree . . maybe they have a different take . . .from 2022 to now
right on cue
"“They definitely made the inquiry there,” Allbright said. “And, you know, Harbaugh kind of let it know, you know, kind of what it is that he wants through his people.
“Bryan Harlan is his agent. And, you know, they kind of let it be known, ‘Hey, look, you know, this is what I’m looking for.’ …
“[Team Glazer] realized fairly quickly, that that’s not compatible with where they’re at as an organization. They really like Jason Licht, and obviously Jason Licht has been a great general manager. …
“I think they just decided, ‘OK, well [Harbaugh] is a great coach, but he’s kind of got a different vision with what he wants and where we’re at. So we’re going to keep our general manager and give him the opportunity to run it back with his head coach.”
Harbaugh is liked by a lot of people for whatever reason. He’s hated by his players. Dude needs to retire. His next stop is going to be a disaster. There’s only one Lamar Jackson.
Harbaugh is liked by a lot of people for whatever reason. He’s hated by his players. Dude needs to retire. His next stop is going to be a disaster. There’s only one Lamar Jackson.
yeah where else could we find a guy that misses 5 games a year....real easy to win when your starting QB does that and comes up choke in the playoffs
i think most people remember 2022 differently.
Well, differently yes but my version is closer to actual reality, right?
hindsight is a beautiful thing
it's kind of like all of us expecting progress in 2025 and certainly looking that way at 6-2....then the JC5100 of the world coming out and talking about lack of talent on the roster when we manage to go 2-4 against lesser teams.
His perception is closer to the truth given the record....question is...with a different coaching staff, are we not 11-6 with progress? I'd like to think so.
a matter of fact, we probably win 2 more games alone if Bowles just has a fucking DC up in the booth seeing the whole field. He is clearly overwhelmed with HC responsibilities and the defense has taken a step back. (that defensive alignment before half at Carolina was egregious and could have easily been fixed with a coordinator)
so easy to see.
hindsight is a beautiful thing
it's kind of like all of us expecting progress in 2025 and certainly looking that way at 6-2
its is for sure, but its not just hindsight. Its irrational exuberance, to use a very old investor phrase.
At 6-2 the Bucs were "on their way to a Super Bowl" and part of that was PRE-SEASON Super Bowl "expectations." Both of those were off.
PRE-SEASON Super bowl expectations - sold by the team for sure, but a team truly on the verge does not take a flyer on an edge, tryout a 5th round linebacker, let alone next to a 35 year old linebacker, especially where the defense was a problem. That same team probably doesn't go with a first time OC, although that one at least grounds in the Coen success
6-2 record - several of those games are less than 3 point wins, and several on Mayfield heroics, so I am not sure that start said Super Bowl. The collapse was bad for sure, but also many games easily go the other way. The 2025 Bucs dont have a pre-bye convincing win on their sheet? Maybe the first Saints game? They beat the 49ers but heavily depleted, so maybe not.
The reason a heavily-injured offense or team can get worse even as it gets more healthy is PRESSURE. And I mean pressure on the coaches, not just the players. The coaches contribute to the downward spiral, but they almost have no choice. When you start doing things like kicking off into the end zone its a double edged sword because the team knows it means the pressure is on, the team is f . .d etc. Its desperate. It is also the HC saying "we have to win with a hand tided behind our back because one unit sucks so bad." But what else could they do? If they win kicking into the EZ the coach is a genius, if they lose the team trust erodes MORE.
RUNNING THE BALL like they did, both the game where they ran it 30 plus times and running it almost exclusively with Irving . . both double edge sword because its the coaching staff trying to control the outcome because they dont trust the players to win it on their own, even with all that talent. If it works, coaches are geniuses if not trust erodes further.
These are some of the choices that led me to believe Bowles was done.
There was always a path though because CLEARLY Licht trust Bowles and obviously so does Arians.
