Which year of the contract?Enough is enough. BTT. Is Baker Mayfield worth $40m/year?
he is if it still allows them to accomplish everything else they want to do for 2024 and is not for too long, gives them outs.
I think it will be less but point is that contracts don’t exist in a vacuum and are not just about the amount
Mayfield - will make "sacrifices" to bring Evans back
Mayfield - chances "pretty high" Evans back
Kaufman - the are going to tag Mayfield
Wouldn't be the end of the world. The QB tag will be about $36 mil. But once the tag is final there's no chance to work out a longer deal or spread out the cap hit.Mayfield - will make "sacrifices" to bring Evans back
Mayfield - chances "pretty high" Evans back
Kaufman - the are going to tag Mayfield
But 1) I presume we are saving the tag for Winfield. If the Bucs are positioning themselves to tag Mayfield that would mean Winfield is a UFA and his price goes up and there's a chance another team gets him.
2)To tag Mayfield at a time when he's looking for a multiyear deal would mean he'll likely be hitting the road after the year. That means the Bucs are drafting a QB and Mayfield is just a bridge for a guy who's drafted at best at the end of the first round. That's not a very good plan IMO if that's what they are thinking.
Previously I thought that Mayfield being the greeter at One Buc was probably giving his agent heartburn, but now I'm not so sure that the agent isn't fully supportive of Mayfield palling around as if he's a still a Buccaneer. It puts pressure on the Bucs to sign him or risk losing Evans and throwing the future into uncertainty. If the Bucs are putting out rumblings of tagging Mayfield that might just be a subtle message that the Bucs aren't going to be pushed around. But the problem remains that you can only tag one player.
Wouldn't be the end of the world. The QB tag will be about $36 mil. But once the tag is final there's no chance to work out a longer deal or spread out the cap hit.Mayfield - will make "sacrifices" to bring Evans back
Mayfield - chances "pretty high" Evans back
Kaufman - the are going to tag Mayfield
But 1) I presume we are saving the tag for Winfield. If the Bucs are positioning themselves to tag Mayfield that would mean Winfield is a UFA and his price goes up and there's a chance another team gets him.
2)To tag Mayfield at a time when he's looking for a multiyear deal would mean he'll likely be hitting the road after the year. That means the Bucs are drafting a QB and Mayfield is just a bridge for a guy who's drafted at best at the end of the first round. That's not a very good plan IMO if that's what they are thinking.
Previously I thought that Mayfield being the greeter at One Buc was probably giving his agent heartburn, but now I'm not so sure that the agent isn't fully supportive of Mayfield palling around as if he's a still a Buccaneer. It puts pressure on the Bucs to sign him or risk losing Evans and throwing the future into uncertainty. If the Bucs are putting out rumblings of tagging Mayfield that might just be a subtle message that the Bucs aren't going to be pushed around. But the problem remains that you can only tag one player.
I am not sure they tag Mayfield, but why do you take that to mean one and done? I think IF they tagged him they would work out a LTD with him next season, if he performs
Anyway, not so sure its just one person's opinion, although pretty in the know person
a tag isn’t great from a cap perspective
it will limit the risk that if baker is another Geno situation, they can move on next year
the fact that both want to get deal done and baker would likely like some years as opposed to one year I would think a deal gets done for less than the tag value with more years being the kicker to entice baker
after all it was one year. He played admirable and has potential but the baker doubters aren’t outlandish to worry about a big contact. I am too. Where they are off base is they think any QB can do what baker did and that’s just an idiotic take. Offer up a realistic replacement who keeps us competitive and can build around. To date, still waiting on that name and now followed by “we haven’t seem him play yet why wouldn’t he lead us to a playoff win!”
Nice post.Wouldn't be the end of the world. The QB tag will be about $36 mil. But once the tag is final there's no chance to work out a longer deal or spread out the cap hit.Mayfield - will make "sacrifices" to bring Evans back
Mayfield - chances "pretty high" Evans back
Kaufman - the are going to tag Mayfield
But 1) I presume we are saving the tag for Winfield. If the Bucs are positioning themselves to tag Mayfield that would mean Winfield is a UFA and his price goes up and there's a chance another team gets him.
2)To tag Mayfield at a time when he's looking for a multiyear deal would mean he'll likely be hitting the road after the year. That means the Bucs are drafting a QB and Mayfield is just a bridge for a guy who's drafted at best at the end of the first round. That's not a very good plan IMO if that's what they are thinking.
Previously I thought that Mayfield being the greeter at One Buc was probably giving his agent heartburn, but now I'm not so sure that the agent isn't fully supportive of Mayfield palling around as if he's a still a Buccaneer. It puts pressure on the Bucs to sign him or risk losing Evans and throwing the future into uncertainty. If the Bucs are putting out rumblings of tagging Mayfield that might just be a subtle message that the Bucs aren't going to be pushed around. But the problem remains that you can only tag one player.
It isn’t reasonable to think Baker would be tagged, it is reasonable that the Bucs would use a media source to float the idea that they won’t be pushed around (great work Ira).
I also think a 3 to 4 year deal is in the works, and maybe the concession/“sacrifice” is that year one would be below tag price - to fit in Mike Evans. The multi year deal would give the Bucs some leeway to retool Bakers contract at a future date. It’s why I don’t get hung up on the numbers, these things are structured to allow the team flexibility.
I also believe the Bucs may tag Winfield. It makes the most sense, although, I don’t know the ramifications.
I don’t study this, but I think there are two tag designations (transition & franchise), right? Can they be used in the same year? If so, what is the impact on future negotiations with the player you use this on?
Nice post.Wouldn't be the end of the world. The QB tag will be about $36 mil. But once the tag is final there's no chance to work out a longer deal or spread out the cap hit.Mayfield - will make "sacrifices" to bring Evans back
Mayfield - chances "pretty high" Evans back
Kaufman - the are going to tag Mayfield
But 1) I presume we are saving the tag for Winfield. If the Bucs are positioning themselves to tag Mayfield that would mean Winfield is a UFA and his price goes up and there's a chance another team gets him.
2)To tag Mayfield at a time when he's looking for a multiyear deal would mean he'll likely be hitting the road after the year. That means the Bucs are drafting a QB and Mayfield is just a bridge for a guy who's drafted at best at the end of the first round. That's not a very good plan IMO if that's what they are thinking.
Previously I thought that Mayfield being the greeter at One Buc was probably giving his agent heartburn, but now I'm not so sure that the agent isn't fully supportive of Mayfield palling around as if he's a still a Buccaneer. It puts pressure on the Bucs to sign him or risk losing Evans and throwing the future into uncertainty. If the Bucs are putting out rumblings of tagging Mayfield that might just be a subtle message that the Bucs aren't going to be pushed around. But the problem remains that you can only tag one player.
It isn’t reasonable to think Baker would be tagged, it is reasonable that the Bucs would use a media source to float the idea that they won’t be pushed around (great work Ira).
I also think a 3 to 4 year deal is in the works, and maybe the concession/“sacrifice” is that year one would be below tag price - to fit in Mike Evans. The multi year deal would give the Bucs some leeway to retool Bakers contract at a future date. It’s why I don’t get hung up on the numbers, these things are structured to allow the team flexibility.
I also believe the Bucs may tag Winfield. It makes the most sense, although, I don’t know the ramifications.
I don’t study this, but I think there are two tag designations (transition & franchise), right? Can they be used in the same year? If so, what is the impact on future negotiations with the player you use this on?
to be honest, the hope is that the tag is a last resort for individuals and guys like Evans, Winfield, etc. - you know they are studs and should extend to at least a 3 year deal. Winfield - you can consider a 5 year deal. Its more flexible from a cap perspective and there's no question on how they will perform.
Evans can be total butt cheeks for the next 3 years and its' worth the risk. (also highly unlikely that happens) Evans isn't like other receivers and takes care of himself. Eventually father time will come calling but he showed no signs of slowing down last year and we should treat him as such.
in terms of Baker, he had a good year for us but of those 3, he's the biggest question mark. Will he improve upon that performance or regress? With the Browns he looked to ying yang and the hope is with Tampa he can build on his performance.
his 2023 season was a good one but not a great one. Great would have been Brady circa 2020 and 2021 seasons - i.e. tossing 40 TDs. That would have said, "man this guy may have found something" and you throw 40 mil a year at him.
Baker had a career year in 2023 (cue the Debatable Debbie's) but it wasn't enough for me to throw 40M a year at him the Browns saw this with him a few years ago when he went toe to toe with the Chiefs after a playoff victory the previous week. He still has alot to prove so the guys worth 3 years at 30M per year with year 3 being structured in a way that we can cut his ass if he sucks.
2024 offseason - build the team up through draft and continue to bleed off the cap hits from the "ALL IN" years with Brady. Do not waste a draft pick on a QB unless it's just to be a back-up in the 5th or later rounds
2025 offseason- We would have year 1 in the Baker extension in the books. Did he:
- Progress on 2023? Excellent. we may just have our guy. No need to draft a QB
- Remain steady to 2023 - Solid. Will likely mean we have seen the ceiling of Baker which may or may not be enough but will tease us to keep trying and likely means we don't have a good enough draft pick to get a legit "franchise QB" contender
- Regress on 2023? Not good for him and depending on our draft pick, should consider drafting our "QB of the Future" to start season as #2 with potential to take over for Baker depending on how the 2025 season goes
we can cross the 2026 bridge when it happens but that's likely the 2 year outlook on Baker and as to why itll be a 3 year deal with flexibility and quite frankly Baker has already settled in on Tampa so put it at very little odds he ducks Tampa for a team like Atlanta or what have you especially since mutually they likely are seeing eye to eye given his hot mic moment last week.
Just give him a Grin inducing offer. If that's 36 mil this year...Is that Fair Market Value according to the NFL money crunchers? The part about NOT negotiating a LTC is a huge issue. If HE has another "career year" next year. Oof, His PRICE WILL be out of our reach. Just Make it more back loaded. Given him fair market value for 1-2 years then the salary figure goes up according to his WORTH, and only make the first 2-3 years of the contract guaranteed, so if he cant become The GUY, we can each go separate ways at that point without devastating financial ramifications that we pay for years after he's with another org (and no one wants that outcome- its lose lose for everyone).
It also keeps his price NEXT year, more reasonable to allow some cap maneuvering to keep Evans and Winfield Wirfs ETC.
He still has alot to prove so the guys worth 3 years at 30M per year with year 3 being structured in a way that we can cut his ass if he sucks.
Ideal.
Yes the hope is to not actually tag Winfield or Mayfield. You hope the player will cut a better deal to avoid the tag.
You can use one tag or the other not both.
use a media source to float the idea that they won’t be pushed around
+1
seems unlikely
I would be surprised though if we don't sign mayfield and Evans
Let him test the market and match. He's not leaving.
If you accept the premise that Mayfield and Evans are basically a package deal (as Mayfield seems to describe it), isn't that one reason the Bucs are unlikely to follow the "let him test the market" approach? Dont the Bucs want to get Evans deal done BEFORE the 19th? I saw a report that the 19th is a significant date for Evans because its when a bunch of contract money comes forward?
If they are a package deal, so to speak, aren't they more likely to close the Mayfield contract around the same times as Evans?
Yes, saw a similar report. If the Bucs can sign Baker & Evans, they can save $8 mil in cap space.Let him test the market and match. He's not leaving.
If you accept the premise that Mayfield and Evans are basically a package deal (as Mayfield seems to describe it), isn't that one reason the Bucs are unlikely to follow the "let him test the market" approach? Dont the Bucs want to get Evans deal done BEFORE the 19th? I saw a report that the 19th is a significant date for Evans because its when a bunch of contract money comes forward?
If they are a package deal, so to speak, aren't they more likely to close the Mayfield contract around the same times as Evans?
Using the tag would be suboptimal - but Licht’s leverage in these various negotiations, is the available cap space.
The franchise tag on Baker would cost approximately $36m - and it would absolutely be detrimental for the signing of anyone else, as many of you know, this would count against the 2024 cap. Also suboptimal.
If the tag is $36m, and the slotting fees for QB’s (as determined by Carr/$37m & Cousins/$35m previous deals) have already determined the average base salary - then the floor has already been determined.
The only thing left to negotiate is the length of the contract & voidable years (which gives the team flexibility). There’s also Baker’s willingness to ‘sacrifice’ to allow the Buc’s to sign Evans.
You don’t have to like it, but them’s the facts.
Some who say, ‘let him test the market’, don’t seem to understand that the Buc’s DON’T want that. That only happens if A) They offer too little and the player decides not to sign the deal, and that means we don’t sign until March, and he is able to be legally tampered with by other team - some with similar schemes (New Englands OC, AVP, springs to mind). Or B) the Buc’s think there’s a better option in FA, or at #26 in the draft - ie, they don’t.
The Bucs want Baker to test the market about as badly as Evan’s or Winfield want to be tagged.
it isn’t going to happen. Both sides know that they already had a ‘prove it’ year (something New Orleans WISHES they could have gotten with Carr). Value (for the Buc’s) has already determined, and none of their plans include losing Baker, that would be a worst case scenario.
Baker holds the cards, because he proves it, and several team would pay for him.
Also: inflation has to be included in the financial consideration - is in favor of Mayfield’s agent asking for $40m, legitimately.
The fact that Florida doesn’t have an income tax - is a consideration in Licht’s favor.
It would surprise me if this contract is done for less than the low to mid $30m range…spreading the total deal over a couple/few years - with voidable years - means you could structure that deal to allow Baker to ‘sacrifice’ year one in order to sign Evans, and possibly Winfield… restructuring other contracts (paying folks under contract their 2024 salaries in the form of bonuses, voidable years, etc), signing current players before February 19th saves another $8m - could probably get every critical player signed/extended - Licht’s team will definitely earn their money again this year!
inflation has to be included in the financial consideration - is in favor of Mayfield’s agent asking for $40m, legitimately
Admitting that the contract part of the NFL is not my thing (its boring and mostly works out), this was a point I agree with and made myself.
agree with this too . .
Some who say, ‘let him test the market’, don’t seem to understand that the Buc’s DON’T want that
Do teams (arguably) in a SB run and with aging vets usually let their STARTING QB test the market?
Seems they would wrap him up, even at a slight premium, so long as they can still accomplish all their other goals. This is one reason why the timing of the Evans contract seemed linked to this testing the market concept.
