,ot Even Mahomes. Its all depends on the Skill level of the one making the PICK.
Not really a CFB fan, so wasnt really following Mahomes in college. I know the Chiefs made a big move to go up to 10 (maybe 12) and get him and that there was already a QB off the board (Trubisky).
IN HINDSIGHT, that move was OBVIOUSLY a no-brainer BUT was that the case AT THE TIME when he was just a college QB coming into the draft? Seems that it was NOT because so many teams passed on him?
TOM BRADY SAYS HELLO
If you’re ok with signing him $25/$27m for year one, you’re $8m under market value. You can get a bargain for one or two years, but not for the whole contract. If you sign him to more ‘out’ years, it’s just there for future negotiations/cap space, or convertible to a bonus if it goes well.and a FA LB to replace D White
Lol. We could replace him with an UDFA.
We already have replaced him with Britt.
So you think, as do I, that if the the organization were to use the tag on Baker, they’re placing an even higher value on him than others would be willing to pay, so as to scare competing teams off - in order to keep him?
No.
I don't see the point of risking a tag because no sane GM from another team would give up (or put themselves in a position) TWO first round picks for Baker Mayfield. Hell, there isn't a sane GM that would give up a single first round pick for him.
If they want to "scare off" competing teams, then sign him. The Bucs have the leverage.
If another team is stupid enough to offer him a 4+ year deal with an APY of $40M+, then let him walk. He ain't that guy.
You either tag him, or you pay him. The market is there to protect the players rights. It doesn’t matter what fans think.
Teams don’t have to play, they can part ways, but smart teams figure it out. I’ll bet we’re smart.
Signing Baker, Mike, and AWJ, it would allow us to use the draft to build both lines (prefer o-line first, but good with BOP), add CB, RB, depth.
The salaries are set, your argument is with Daniel Jones & Deshaun Watson (and to some extent, Carr & Geno Smith), and the cap allotment formula won’t be missed by Baker’s agent, and can’t be ignored by JL & crew. Value is not a hard negotiation…in my estimation, it’s just about length & terms.
If you believe the reports, then Kancey may be a redo, of sorts.Not Even Mahomes.
That’s what I said. He’s the only one.
Anyone else in the league is worth trading for FIVE first round picks.
And, you’re wrong on the “none of US could do it” comment.
Over the last 10-15 years on these boards, there’s been NUMEROUS posters who’ve had mocks, draft takes, etc. that would’ve built insanely good rosters.
Man, I remember the epic conversations of the 2014 draft like it was yesterday.
I wanted Donald so bad.
Listen Donald was also Underrated. If we had could do a redo. Donald may have gone first overall. Sapp fell due to character concerns. Heres my "secret weapon." Yeah we blundered DONALD. But we got a guy....a guy that flashed HARD at times. CK....uhm, listen... in 5 years, HES GOING TO BE VERY EXPENSIVE I "predict."
Still would love to see a legit edge from the draft.
If you’re ok with signing him $25/$27m for year one, you’re $8m under market value. You can get a bargain for one or two years, but not for the whole contract. If you sign him to more ‘out’ years, it’s just there for future negotiations/cap space, or convertible to a bonus if it goes well.
I think I've been pretty clear that I would sign him to a 3-year deal at $75M - $90M with roughly 50-55% of it guaranteed.
The salaries are set, your argument is with Daniel Jones & Deshaun Watson (and to some extent, Carr & Geno Smith),
Not really.
Just because some team grossly overpaid for their QB, doesn't mean that Licht has to make the same mistake.
Again, Baker's market will most likely be a bit north of Geno's contract (where Geno's "resurgent" year was better than Baker's version this season).
As I've said, the Bucs have the leverage here.
Listen Donald was also Underrated. If we had could do a redo. Donald may have gone first overall.
Oh, no doubt he would've.
My guess is that Baker will be weighing the deal here - with Mike and an improved line - against going elsewhere for more money. There’s at least one place out there with a previous OC, and a lot of cap space. Other needful teams either have the same cap room, or would have to make some cuts to make a decent offer.If you’re ok with signing him $25/$27m for year one, you’re $8m under market value. You can get a bargain for one or two years, but not for the whole contract. If you sign him to more ‘out’ years, it’s just there for future negotiations/cap space, or convertible to a bonus if it goes well.
I think I've been pretty clear that I would sign him to a 3-year deal at $75M - $90M with roughly 50-55% of it guaranteed.
The salaries are set, your argument is with Daniel Jones & Deshaun Watson (and to some extent, Carr & Geno Smith),
Not really.
Just because some team grossly overpaid for their QB, doesn't mean that Licht has to make the same mistake.
Again, Baker's market will most likely be a bit north of Geno's contract (where Geno's "resurgent" year was better than Baker's version this season).
As I've said, the Bucs have the leverage here.
The only way the Bucs have leverage, is if they tag Baker.
The only way the Bucs have leverage, is if they tag Baker.
Which, again, would be incredibly stupid.
Bucs have the leverage here. It would mean continuity, a place for him to call home, familiarity, etc.
He's not getting that anywhere else.
As I said, if someone's stupid enough to give him a Daniel Jones deal, then so be it. Hope it's not us.
I’d agree to a point with this, I’m just not as hung up on the APY - it’s just number - cap is rising. It nets out. We don’t have a history of crazy deals.The only way the Bucs have leverage, is if they tag Baker.
Which, again, would be incredibly stupid.
Bucs have the leverage here. It would mean continuity, a place for him to call home, familiarity, etc.
He's not getting that anywhere else.
As I said, if someone's stupid enough to give him a Daniel Jones deal, then so be it. Hope it's not us.
I’m just not as hung up on the APY - it’s just number - cap is rising. It nets out.
I mean, it is and it isn’t.
But, I get what you’re saying.
The Bucs could settle with Winfield quickly by basically meeting his price, so you spend more than you like on Winfield but it's small potatoes compared to the QB situation. That would shift the tag leverage to Mayfield.
I disagree with Donkey. This is Mayfield's best shot to get some real money while he's in his prime. There are other teams who would be interested in his services. Falcons and Vikings come to mind, but the Bucs can avoid the bidding war if they are willing to use the tag.
Mayfield has to strike while the iron is hot, so that's the leverage for the Bucs. An off year due to injuries or poor performance or just a down year for the team could put a serious dent in his value. Everything is roses for Baker right now, and he has to capitalize on that. Mayfield will want to settle to avoid the tag IMO.
So if I'm Licht I say to Bakers' agent "We love Baker, and we think he is worth such and such. All kinds of numbers are being floated about what other teams might offer, and as much as we want Baker we don't want to get into a bidding war. So we are prepared to reluctantly use the franchise tag on him." They'll take the deal IMO. No bidding war.
Who gives a shyt as long as everyone WINS IN THE END. Alls well that Ends well. There is a lot of Love “Dwelling” within OBP…when 2 parties care for each other…deals are easy to make. Just have popcorn or crow ready!
Kind of.The Bucs could settle with Winfield quickly by basically meeting his price, so you spend more than you like on Winfield but it's small potatoes compared to the QB situation. That would shift the tag leverage to Mayfield.
I disagree with Donkey. This is Mayfield's best shot to get some real money while he's in his prime. There are other teams who would be interested in his services. Falcons and Vikings come to mind, but the Bucs can avoid the bidding war if they are willing to use the tag.
Mayfield has to strike while the iron is hot, so that's the leverage for the Bucs. An off year due to injuries or poor performance or just a down year for the team could put a serious dent in his value. Everything is roses for Baker right now, and he has to capitalize on that. Mayfield will want to settle to avoid the tag IMO.
So if I'm Licht I say to Bakers' agent "We love Baker, and we think he is worth such and such. All kinds of numbers are being floated about what other teams might offer, and as much as we want Baker we don't want to get into a bidding war. So we are prepared to reluctantly use the franchise tag on him." They'll take the deal IMO. No bidding war.
If you start negotiating with anyone other than Baker, first, it would send a message that would absolutely be interpreted by Baker’s team as to the Bucs estimation of his importance to the team. The Buccaneer organization is clearly trying to send a different message. We know that if you want to win now, then there is no option if Baker walks.
After looking into it (admittedly, before restructuring/re-negotiating of each teams cap), the cap for the teams we’ve heard that interested in Baker (according to spotrac.com):
New England - $67m
Atlanta - $24m
Denver - $30m
Las Vegas - $39m
Pittsburgh - $22m
Of all of them, New England is poised as the biggest threat: cap space, high draft pick- but also hired Baker’s OC from the Browns, AVP & QB coach.
Depends on what they determine is preferable. Would drafting a QB be better than acquiring Baker. But, they also have the cap space to do both.
It’s why I think you cannot assume that the Bucs have leverage. Because the Buc’s have shown strong interest, it shows they have not only made up they’re mind, but they also understand there is real competition.
It’s why I don’t think Geno Smith contract is the guideline.
I do think Baker is willing to negotiate, but as you make the point, he doesn’t need/nor the time, to take a home-town deal.
I don't assume the Bucs have leverage, unless they have the tag option for him. If you pay Winfield three or four more million than you wanted to, thats a small sacrifice if you can avoid getting into a bidding war for Baker. Sure, Baker and his agent would love a bidding war, but the Bucs are fully justified if they don't want to get in one.
Instead of giving Baker the chance to choose between Atlanta, Minnesota, Las Vegas, the Bucs and whoever, he'll have the choice of the Bucs with the tag or the Bucs with a new contract. The Bucs can begin negotiations with Baker first. I'm sure they already have. Who they come to an agreement with first depends on whether they can come to an agreement on demands. If there's a full out bidding war I'm not sure when or if the Bucs can meet Baker's demands. The Bucs can't put everybody on hold until that happens.
The Bucs could settle with Winfield quickly by basically meeting his price, so you spend more than you like on Winfield but it's small potatoes compared to the QB situation. That would shift the tag leverage to Mayfield.
Regarding "settling" with Winfield, you'd be "settling" on a superior player.
Winfield is EASILY the 1a or 1b player you sign to a new deal wit Wirfs.
Unlike Baker, both have been considered to be the best at their positions. Multiple AP honors (Baker not even close in that department).
I disagree with Donkey. This is Mayfield's best shot to get some real money while he's in his prime. There are other teams who would be interested in his services. Falcons and Vikings come to mind, but the Bucs can avoid the bidding war if they are willing to use the tag.
Avoid what bidding war?
The Vikings? Who will most likely keep Cousins, assuming he's healthy?
The Falcons? Who have all been linked to either Fields or trading up for Daniels?
@white-tiger posted something last month about the fear of us losing Baker to these teams. Saying they "were smart and know something others don't".
If that were the case, why didn't they sign him last off-season?
Mayfield has to strike while the iron is hot, so that's the leverage for the Bucs.
Which has been my point all along.
"Consistently Inconsistnet". You think other GM's don't think the same way?
If not, why wasn't he signed before he got here?
Signing Winfield, and being ok to over-paying him, while not Baker? Means you either think someone currently on the depth chart - can do as good a job - or you don’t care about winning.
Signing Winfield without Baker, you lose Mike Evans, and others.
You can join the maintenance guys they sent to adjust the wireless antenna on the Titanic. What happens in this glorious work of fantasy? Who steps in to give us a better chance of winning?
or are you part of the group who doesn’t mind losing for the next decade while we sort through the Bucs next, ex-QB?
it would wear me out - except I realized the same guys who were wrong about the last QB controversy, are pretty much the same guys on the wrong side of the Mayfield discussion, this time.