It was really about the fact that the anal retentive Stefanski couldn't handle Baker's personality
This is pretty laughable. Coaches will put up with damn-near anything as long as the player can play. Hell, Stefanski's current QB has some "personality" traits most find abhorrent, but he's still on the team. And that's after giving up 6 draft picks, including 3 first rounders, and giving him a completely guaranteed $230M deal for this QB.
It was really about the fact that the anal retentive Stefanski couldn't handle Baker's personality
This is pretty laughable. Coaches will put up with damn-near anything as long as the player can play. Hell, Stefanski's current QB has some "personality" traits most find abhorrent, but he's still on the team. And that's after giving up 6 draft picks, including 3 first rounders, and giving him a completely guaranteed $230M deal for this QB.
Stenfaski has a history concerning QBs. In short, he wants Brock Purdy more than he wants Josh Allen. Stefanski's system is all about minimizing the QB's role/significance to the bare minimum, his primary weapon has always been the run game, and operate mostly from PA, where the QB simply hits his back foot and throws. Playing out of structure, trying to extend plays to get to the 2nd/3rd windows is antithetical to how Stefanski likes to run his offenses. Go back and watch any number of games throughout his coaching career; it's all the same regardless of who is QB, what weapons he has, etc. Don't get me wrong; it's a good system, but his whole offensive philosophy is about reducing the QB's role/impact. Not surprising, since he comes right off the same tree as Shanahan.
How that sometimes translates in games is something like: near the end of the game, 3rd and long, potentially the last drive, Stefanski calls a screen/short timing pass, or a draw, but generally something short of the sticks, but the ball is coming out fast. Get it in the hands of one of your playmakers; which, superficially, is a good idea. But when everyone in the known universe knows that's your plan they sit on the sticks.
Now go back and watch the endings of some Stefanski games, anywhere he coached. different jerseys, same decisions, same results.
giving him a completely guaranteed $230M deal
It was really about the fact that the anal retentive Stefanski couldn't handle Baker's personality
This is pretty laughable. Coaches will put up with damn-near anything as long as the player can play. Hell, Stefanski's current QB has some "personality" traits most find abhorrent, but he's still on the team. And that's after giving up 6 draft picks, including 3 first rounders, and giving him a completely guaranteed $230M deal for this QB.
Stenfaski has a history concerning QBs. In short, he wants Brock Purdy more than he wants Josh Allen. Stefanski's system is all about minimizing the QB's role/significance to the bare minimum, his primary weapon has always been the run game, and operate mostly from PA, where the QB simply hits his back foot and throws. Playing out of structure, trying to extend plays to get to the 2nd/3rd windows is antithetical to how Stefanski likes to run his offenses. Go back and watch any number of games throughout his coaching career; it's all the same regardless of who is QB, what weapons he has, etc. Don't get me wrong; it's a good system, but his whole offensive philosophy is about reducing the QB's role/impact. Not surprising, since he comes right off the same tree as Shanahan.
How that sometimes translates in games is something like: near the end of the game, 3rd and long, potentially the last drive, Stefanski calls a screen/short timing pass, or a draw, but generally something short of the sticks, but the ball is coming out fast. Get it in the hands of one of your playmakers; which, superficially, is a good idea. But when everyone in the known universe knows that's your plan they sit on the sticks.
Now go back and watch the endings of some Stefanski games, anywhere he coached. different jerseys, same decisions, same results.
I love talking Browns football as much as the next fella, but I’m lost as to what any of this has to with Stefanski not being able handle Mayfield’s personality.
It's about 2021, the stupidity of the Browns and why any stats from that season are ignored by default
It was really about the fact that the anal retentive Stefanski couldn't handle Baker's personality
This is pretty laughable. Coaches will put up with damn-near anything as long as the player can play. Hell, Stefanski's current QB has some "personality" traits most find abhorrent, but he's still on the team. And that's after giving up 6 draft picks, including 3 first rounders, and giving him a completely guaranteed $230M deal for this QB.
Stenfaski has a history concerning QBs. In short, he wants Brock Purdy more than he wants Josh Allen. Stefanski's system is all about minimizing the QB's role/significance to the bare minimum, his primary weapon has always been the run game, and operate mostly from PA, where the QB simply hits his back foot and throws. Playing out of structure, trying to extend plays to get to the 2nd/3rd windows is antithetical to how Stefanski likes to run his offenses. Go back and watch any number of games throughout his coaching career; it's all the same regardless of who is QB, what weapons he has, etc. Don't get me wrong; it's a good system, but his whole offensive philosophy is about reducing the QB's role/impact. Not surprising, since he comes right off the same tree as Shanahan.
How that sometimes translates in games is something like: near the end of the game, 3rd and long, potentially the last drive, Stefanski calls a screen/short timing pass, or a draw, but generally something short of the sticks, but the ball is coming out fast. Get it in the hands of one of your playmakers; which, superficially, is a good idea. But when everyone in the known universe knows that's your plan they sit on the sticks.
Now go back and watch the endings of some Stefanski games, anywhere he coached. different jerseys, same decisions, same results.
He's blown about 6 games just by passing up FG's and failed 4th downs
Prior to this season the defense was a sieve that blew games on a regular basis
It's about 2021, the stupidity of the Browns and why any stats from that season are ignored by default
Boy, that’s convenient.
He's blown about 6 games just by passing up FG's and failed 4th downs
Prior to this season the defense was a sieve that blew games on a regular basis
He’s also won NFL Coach of the Year in two of the last four years. I bet that just another stat to ignore by default.
It was really about the fact that the anal retentive Stefanski couldn't handle Baker's personality
This is pretty laughable. Coaches will put up with damn-near anything as long as the player can play. Hell, Stefanski's current QB has some "personality" traits most find abhorrent, but he's still on the team. And that's after giving up 6 draft picks, including 3 first rounders, and giving him a completely guaranteed $230M deal for this QB.
Stenfaski has a history concerning QBs. In short, he wants Brock Purdy more than he wants Josh Allen. Stefanski's system is all about minimizing the QB's role/significance to the bare minimum, his primary weapon has always been the run game, and operate mostly from PA, where the QB simply hits his back foot and throws. Playing out of structure, trying to extend plays to get to the 2nd/3rd windows is antithetical to how Stefanski likes to run his offenses. Go back and watch any number of games throughout his coaching career; it's all the same regardless of who is QB, what weapons he has, etc. Don't get me wrong; it's a good system, but his whole offensive philosophy is about reducing the QB's role/impact. Not surprising, since he comes right off the same tree as Shanahan.
How that sometimes translates in games is something like: near the end of the game, 3rd and long, potentially the last drive, Stefanski calls a screen/short timing pass, or a draw, but generally something short of the sticks, but the ball is coming out fast. Get it in the hands of one of your playmakers; which, superficially, is a good idea. But when everyone in the known universe knows that's your plan they sit on the sticks.
Now go back and watch the endings of some Stefanski games, anywhere he coached. different jerseys, same decisions, same results.
I love talking Browns football as much as the next fella, but I’m lost as to what any of this has to with Stefanski not being able handle Mayfield’s personality.
Well, to be clearer I guess, Baker is at heart a play-maker; he can throw with timing/anticipation in good rhythm; it's a fundamental part of his game. But he wants to attack the defense with deep strikes as well, and in Stefanski's offense he had to play out of structure to get those opportunities. or, I say "had to," when really Baker chose to, to be more precise. I'll bet that caused some friction with Stefanski, whose offensive philosophy runs counter to that type of Qbing. Stefanski's philosophy is 'get the ball out of the QB's hand as quickly as possible/get it to the play-makers asap.'
I should mention here that when Stefanski was named the new HC/OC in 2020, I was very happy for Baker at the time. I've always been an admirer or at least respected Stefanski as an offensive mind, and I knew that Baker would finally get some help developmentally from a top-tier OC. And I was disgusted with the CLE coaches he was saddled with when he was drafted and going into 2019. "CLE is where rookie QBs go to die," was the common saying at the time. Even now, I'd say.
anyway, Stefanski's offense is predicated on the run game, which would take some of the pressure to perform off of Baker, and the passing game would be more basic but also would give Baker plenty of short/quick throws in rhythm, something Baker was always good at. But Stefanski's offense doesn't allow for many opportunities downfield; just part of the compromise that has to be made when running that type of dink-and-dunk offense. Blahblahblah, bottom line, Baker would finally get some solid NFL coaching from a top NFL coach.
But as their relationship progressed, I thought I noticed that Stefanski began calling plays that seemed designed to keep Baker from even attempting deeper shots; like he was keeping Baker on a schematic leash. I can't remember now if it was Kurt Warner or JT Sullivan, but one of them even mentioned that in one of their analyses back in 2020 or 2021.
I mean, there were other things that probably caused friction between the two, such as the fact that Stefanski wanted Baker to work with a coach that would work on his footwork (remembering that Baker was a shotgun QB out of college and dropbacks/playing under center, and so on, were foreign to him at the time), but Baker resisted (obviously, look at his footwork now). The result was that Baker can do a three-step drop like anyone else, but all of Baker's 5- and 7-step drops are all abbreviated, which leads to compressed throwing lanes and eventually Baker getting balls batted because he's too close to the line and the DL.
And there's no denying that Baker was more immature in 2020-21. And stubborn. it hurt his development, but it also probably created more friction between him and his coaches (Stefanski). Bottom line, Stefanski wanted to put Baker on a leash, which is a confrontational/adversarial relationship, and at the time Baker wasn't able to get comfortable in that situation. I think he fought it on a subconscious level.
That last bit is one of the things that I noticed this season, his maturation as a person. It started last season when he went to LAR, but I could really see it going into the playoffs with TB this season. He protected the ball much better than I think I've ever seen him in his entire career. In other words, he didn't press as much; he became more patient. That seems to have translated into just a lot less "wth?" balls.
And it's the number 1 reason I think he could really come into his own in TB. He's more comfortable, not just in TB, but I think within himself. He's not trying to win the game on every throw or lashing out at the smallest slight anymore; he notes them but doesn't just react emotionally and get distracted by them now. Honestly, if I didn't see that maturation, I wouldn't be as sure that he's going to have a really good/great year in 2024. And beyond, if he stays in TB. Or goes to LAR or gets with Sean Payton.
But Stefanski's offense doesn't allow for many opportunities downfield
I think Joe Flacco and his 7.9 YPA this season may disagree.
At least you did put some culpability on Mayfield in the above post. Not a lot or enough, but some - and that is progress. And I agree with you on Mayfield’s maturation. He’s kept his fiery competitiveness, but grown up some too. Now if he can just be consistent week-in and week-out as a QB.
But Stefanski's offense doesn't allow for many opportunities downfield
I think Joe Flacco and his 7.9 YPA this season may disagree.
At least you did put some culpability on Mayfield in the above post. Not a lot or enough, but some - and that is progress. And I agree with you on Mayfield’s maturation. He’s kept his fiery competitiveness, but grown up some too. Now if he can just be consistent week-in and week-out as a QB.
Meh, I didn't watch Flacco play this season. Saw one set of highlights, I think. But I've never been terribly impressed with Flacco, even the year he won a ring. Big arm, and now a well-seasoned veteran, but nothing special about him otherwise. And yeah, 7.9 yds/att is pretty nice, but as you know, those numbers fluctuate year to year, so one year, sorry he didn't play an entire season, did he? FIVE games, lol, talk about a small data set, isn't all that much to get excited about.
I mean seriously, Matt Moore was statistically the best QB in football for 3 weeks back in 2019, lol. Are you one of those that takes that sort of thing seriously?
And btw, the idea that Stefanski doesn't like taking deep shots doesn't come from me. As I stated, that came from either Kurt Warner or JT Sullivan. I only noticed after I saw the analysis. And I've seen enough of Kurt Warner to know that he's one of the best QB reviewers out there, if not the best. JT is pretty good as well.
Though it's possible that Stefanski has evolved since 2020-21 as well. Both could be true.
And I'll just ignore the back-handed compliment?
Peace.
And btw, the idea that Stefanski doesn't like taking deep shots doesn't come from me. As I stated, that came from either Kurt Warner or JT Sullivan. I only noticed after I saw the analysis. And I've seen enough of Kurt Warner to know that he's one of the best QB reviewers out there, if not the best. JT is pretty good as well.
You keep referencing something that you really don’t remember very well. You’ll have to forgive me for not putting much credence to it.
Meh, I didn't watch Flacco play this season. Saw one set of highlights, I think. But I've never been terribly impressed with Flacco, even the year he won a ring. Big arm, and now a well-seasoned veteran, but nothing special about him otherwise. And yeah, 7.9 yds/att is pretty nice, but as you know, those numbers fluctuate year to year, so one year, sorry he didn't play an entire season, did he? FIVE games, lol, talk about a small data set, isn't all that much to get excited about.
Small data set or not, Flacco’s 7.9 YPA flies in the face of your analysis regarding Stefanski’s desire to push the ball down the field.
Did you ever consider that Mayfield was the culprit and not the 2-time NFL Coach of the Year? Probably not.
And btw, the idea that Stefanski doesn't like taking deep shots doesn't come from me. As I stated, that came from either Kurt Warner or JT Sullivan. I only noticed after I saw the analysis. And I've seen enough of Kurt Warner to know that he's one of the best QB reviewers out there, if not the best. JT is pretty good as well.
You keep referencing something that you really don’t remember very well. You’ll have to forgive me for not putting much credence to it.
Meh, I didn't watch Flacco play this season. Saw one set of highlights, I think. But I've never been terribly impressed with Flacco, even the year he won a ring. Big arm, and now a well-seasoned veteran, but nothing special about him otherwise. And yeah, 7.9 yds/att is pretty nice, but as you know, those numbers fluctuate year to year, so one year, sorry he didn't play an entire season, did he? FIVE games, lol, talk about a small data set, isn't all that much to get excited about.
Small data set or not, Flacco’s 7.9 YPA flies in the face of your analysis regarding Stefanski’s desire to push the ball down the field.
Did you ever consider that Mayfield was the culprit and not the 2-time NFL Coach of the Year? Probably not.
have you ever watched Baker in college? Just asking, because throwing deep is kind of his wheelhouse. Maybe spend more time watching tape and less time just looking at raw stats? I mean, I get that you don’t like Baker. That’s cool. He’s a polarizing character. But let’s not be naive/ignorant either.
So, the QB is a culprit in a 12 win season?
I’d sure as heck take THAT culprit as MY QB…er, wait…
Thankfully, WE DID!
have you ever watched Baker in college? Just asking, because throwing deep is kind of his wheelhouse.
Maybe, but not as a Buc.
have you ever watched Baker in college? Just asking, because throwing deep is kind of his wheelhouse. Maybe spend more time watching tape and less time just looking at raw stats?
I have. I also watched Timmy Chang toss the ball around the yard in college. Didn't mean a whole helluva lot in the NFL. It would have been nice for Mayfield to bring his "wheelhouse" with him to the NFL, as we (some of us) watched him miss deep balls (by bad throws or not seeing/throwing) all year.
You were also the guy that said Mayfield was a better deep thrower than Tua, and that didn't work out very well for you either. So all of this stuff from you should be taken with the largest of grains of salt.
I mean, I get that you don’t like Baker. That’s cool. He’s a polarizing character. But let’s not be naive/ignorant either.
This isn't true either, and I've said it before. I like how Mayfield carries himself as a teammate and his grit. But that doesn't make him the QB you (and others) believe him to be - clearly.
So, the QB is a culprit in a 12 win season?
Absolutely. He's also a culprit in the 6-win season, another 6-win season, a third 6-win season, a 2-win season, and a 9-win season.
