It may be easier to beat the 9rs than KC, THANK GOD we Live in the NFC and our only chance at Facing Reid/Mahomey is in the Postseason AND The TITLE game no Less
We literally play them in this upcoming regular season.
I stated it improperly. Mea Culpa. I meant the only way we “cross-paths” with them during thpost-season would be in a Title game scenario. I didn't mean the regular season but I failed to state it. NFC teams don't have to go Through KC in order to get to the SB, that's a “boon” for us from an optimistic perspective.
Why is the jury still out on Luke Goedeke but Cody Mauch is a JAG? Why isn't the jury still out on Baker Mayfield after 1 good year (here) on him but not on Luke Goedeke? Have some consistency across the board. Luke Goedeke was a top 10 RT this season after putting out abysmal tape his rookie year.This team definitely isn't mid level talent. The offense is up there with the best amongst skill positions, a few tweaks to the OL and that's it.Personally, I don't have SB expectations for next year. We were incredibly lucky we didn't lose to Carolina last year in a do or die setting. I expect the division to be much better with the coaching/personnel changes in place. We'll have to wait and see which teams do what but I don't think the Saints or Falcons are that far behind in taking the reigns.The bar is always set for that. I think that’s what keeps most fans watching. Most of us know we need a great team to compete for a SB. We’re a few pieces light, but we should be another year closer…and if things break right, at least we found a QB that can maximize the weapons on offense.So the bar is set for you, the Bucs are super bowl contenders next season. Its super bowl or bust.well, the defense was world class - just trying to put a little emphasis on the fact that that defense didn’t win a Super Bowl until the offense was capable. This defense is no where near that one. However, the sum is better than its parts.We won a Super Bowl with an old statue quarterback that was as tough as nails and won many games by sheer force of will - because he had a good cast of weapons around him and a good OC who knew how to use all of them…
Lol. Love it.
This poster is bringing the entertainment.
One won’t win without the other.
Mayfield is the missing link…or so says Todd Bowles and Jason Licht.
A lot of moving parts are involved - if we had a couple more defensive weapons - it sure would help.
Only a few watch every week to just to catch a glimpse of the backup QB - and cross their fingers that he will miraculously start. Keep that hope alive!
Silly abounds.
yeah obviously. our over under was 6.5 wins this past year and we smashed expectations. this team is mid level talent and like i said before, most pundits will be picking Saints or Falcons to win the division in 2024. Our over/under may jump to 8.5 but the expectations will remain low unless we somehow get more talented and hit the draft out of the park.
i will think we are the favorites in the NFC South (but im a Buc Fan) but San Francisco will remain the class of the NFC.
Defensively the cupboard is bare for outside pass rushing which is important. Its holding them back from being an top 10 unit.
we have one above average guy on the offensive line. (Trending towards a future HOF), three JAGs in the interior and jury out on Luke who played well this year. We are probably a top 15 offensive line who protects well but can’t run block
evans and Godwin are top 10 WR duo. Rest of team is JAGS. White has potential but he’s nothing special so far.
we are in the 10-15 range closer to 15 in skill position core. Who do you have ranked better than us in this top tier ranking of yours? Just want to see if I’m being too harsh on our Bucs
Mauch is a second round talent, he isn't some dude we picked up off the streets like Stinnie. He had a better rookie year than Goedeke did and we seen how much improved this season. 3/5 OL starters are high draft selections and we're most likely going to add another this year in the draft to the unit. The OL is trending upwards heading into next year based on player development. The OL can't run block mainly Hainsey is too light in the ass and Stinnie wasn't really good. And we had a TE who continued to get blown up at the LOS that ruined run plays.
Evans and Godwin being a top 10 duo in the NFL should suffice enough. There aren't any NFL teams that are carrying 3 very good WR's, don't know why the Bucs should be the exception to that. Trey Palmer was a rookie and shown potential to be a weapon when given the opportunity. If you can't see his talent or ability then that's on you. All-22 film is available to purchase. White had the third most forced missed tackles after his receptions this year, second in the NFL in yards after catch for RB's, and only had 4 drops out 78 targets. I don't know what more you could ask for out of a running back as receiver. That's far from "nothing special" bud. That's damn good production and cream of the crop like. That ain't potential that's actual results.
Niners, Eagles, Lions, Bengals, Dolphins, Rams, Chargers, Vikings, Seahawks, Jets
I'm taking us over Chargers, Vikings, Seahawks, Jets. I'd put us at 6 or 7. Rams is a toss up but they have two great WR's, a great receiving threat in Kyren Williams, a better #3, and OL in general. We'll have to see Nacua can repeat similar success before I'm convinced his better than a proven Godwin. But that's just me.
Brady not holding in there at the pocket allowing plays to develop likely contributed to the issues
Spent the last few days at the WMPO (what a finish to that tournament!), so admittedly, I’m catching up on this topic.
But, I want to make sure I’m getting this right.
Blayton, and now you, are basically claiming that the offense was Brady’s (scheme, sequencing, play calling, etc.)
So, if that’s the case, why would he design and call “long-developing” plays (constantly…might I add) if he was simply going to refuse to hold in the pocket?
And, if this were all true, why wouldn’t Lefty have found a job yet? Even at the college level.
I mean, according to the both of you, he wasn’t the one calling the plays. It wasn’t his offense.
Thats not my point at all . . and you probably know that because this has been discussed on here so many times.
Part of last seasons struggles were DEFINITELY on the offensive system, BUT a huge part of that was also the offensive PHILOSOPHY. and that was on Brady.
Last season the Bucs most often CHOSE to pass when there was legitimately a choice so last season the Bucs passed roughly 68% of all plays and so that means on choice plays they really passed a lot. Last season the offense was run by A FORMER QB paper holder not even in the league any more and THE GOAT QB playing is his "last chance to win it all.' They came up with THE GAME PLAN together. SO OF COURSE THEY MOSTLY CHOSE to ride Brady's arm rather than grind out running . . and they did that to their detriment, especially with Brady dumping off so much. Defenses just sat back and tackled receivers in front of them
In the 2022 playoffs, Brady threw the ball 66 times . . and WE LOST. Some of that throwing is because we are behind but one reason we were behind is because of ZERO commitment to RUNNING. (Incidentally, the team had basically quit on Brady so we got destroyed). But, the point is the Cowboys didn't really have to defend our run game. We were a KNOWN passing team, HILARIOUS BECAUSE WE BEAT THEM GAME 1 BY RUNNING
In the 2023 playoffs, first Mayfield the the ball 33 times (I think) and WE WON. Going into that playoff game were known more as a balanced football team. That was the PHILOSOPHY of the offense. Move the chains, stay on schedule down and distance etc. We lost the 2nd game and in that game Mayfield threw the ball 75% of the time, ending up with 2 picks EVEN THOUGH WE WERE IN THE GAME largely until the 4th quarter.
HERES THE POINT:
So, things change game to game and even quarter to quarter but in terms of GAME PLANNING . . .THERE WAS NO WAY. .. zero, zip, nada, bubkis . . .NO WAY that a lackey like Leftwich was STOPPING THE GOAT from throwing until his arm fell off IN THE LAST SEASON OF HIS CAREER. . . EVEN THOUGH THAT IS WHAT THEY SHOULD'VE DONE when they . . BRADY and Leftwich . . . were coming up with the game plan (especially with Brady IN GAME dumping the ball off quickly against DEEP ZONE DEFENSES)
After the Bengals game, Arians went to the press and said this:
“Tom has played great. He played really good the first half,” Arians said. “We got our shots downfield. We looked like us. The first half was the first time I’ve seen this year when (offensive coordinator) Byron (Leftwich) said, ‘Screw it, I’m going back to being me.’
In that game, the Bucs won the first half RUNNING 16 times to 23 passes. Brady had something like a 120 QBR in that first half. BALANCED by Brady-ear standards lol
They lost the game in the 2nd half WITH TWO BRADY INTERCEPTIONS and FUMBLING while trying to pass. They ran the ball 8 times versus Brady throwing another 20 plus times INCLUDING THE TWO PICKS
Recall that BOWLES WANTS TO RUN THE BALL . ..
I think Baker can’t be assessed as a one year wonder, as that leaves out the years in Cleveland where he lifted the team to the playoffs - that hadn’t sniffed it for 30 years….
Goedeki definitely came into his own at ROT - took awhile, but he seems he achieved “mainstay” status (at least in Canales offense). The only question I have is what will be expected in Coen’s version of this offense?
Mauch is a tremendous LG, he pulls and is one of the fastest o-lineman we have.
Listening to Coen’s presser, his o-line will be a weapon in the run game. I assume that means a lot of pulling. He only mentioned Wirffs as a weapon, but he’ll likely need to assess the rest of the line, and Mauch being a rookie and downfield blocking for some of R White’s big runs shows he’s a bit of a weapon, but I haven’t focused on whether Goedeke was just covering the basics, or whether he allowed the run game improve - I think so - I just haven’t looked at that way.
Should be able to get interior linemen Day 2 or 3, and that should add depth & therefore upgrade the o-line.
I like Trey Palmer, but one year for a rookie doesn’t put him in the same range as the players you mentioned. Some have a body of work that indicates what you can expect.
The only reason Evans could possibly be a concern is that, while he IS a proven stud - when does the age fall-off happen? His football IQ is stellar, his position IQ is off the chart (his bag of tricks to get open is deep), and while he does have sneaky speed for someone his size, he also has begun to fight through some injuries that take a toll.
Hope Palmer can take some of the load off Evans & Godwin - but no way can Evans significance be replaced.
Recall that BOWLES WANTS TO RUN THE BALL . ..
By the way, the same RUN game coaches WHO LAST YEAR OPENLY PROTESTED IN THE PRESS . . . successfully ran a run game this year.
weird, huh?
The year the Browns went to the playoffs they ran the ball for 150 yards per game (#2) in the league and ran the football more than they asked Baker to throw. I'm not giving him all the credit for their success of making the playoffs when he wasn't the catalyst for their success. However, I'd give him credit for this (*1 season) being the catalyst for leading the Bucs to the playoffs because he had no run game to speak of.I think Baker can’t be assessed as a one year wonder, as that leaves out the years in Cleveland where he lifted the team to the playoffs - that hadn’t sniffed it for 30 years….
Goedeki definitely came into his own at ROT - took awhile, but he seems he achieved “mainstay” status (at least in Canales offense). The only question I have is what will be expected in Coen’s version of this offense?
Mauch is a tremendous LG, he pulls and is one of the fastest o-lineman we have.
Listening to Coen’s presser, his o-line will be a weapon in the run game. I assume that means a lot of pulling. He only mentioned Wirffs as a weapon, but he’ll likely need to assess the rest of the line, and Mauch being a rookie and downfield blocking for some of R White’s big runs shows he’s a bit of a weapon, but I haven’t focused on whether Goedeke was just covering the basics, or whether he allowed the run game improve - I think so - I just haven’t looked at that way.
Should be able to get interior linemen Day 2 or 3, and that should add depth & therefore upgrade the o-line.
I like Trey Palmer, but one year for a rookie doesn’t put him in the same range as the players you mentioned. Some have a body of work that indicates what you can expect.
The only reason Evans could possibly be a concern is that, while he IS a proven stud - when does the age fall-off happen? His football IQ is stellar, his position IQ is off the chart (his bag of tricks to get open is deep), and while he does have sneaky speed for someone his size, he also has begun to fight through some injuries that take a toll.
Hope Palmer can take some of the load off Evans & Godwin - but no way can Evans significance be replaced.
I didn't put Trey Palmer in any range of players. He's pretty well unproven, and hasn't been super productive just like many of teams third best receiver on their team. Our just happen to be a rookie who didn't get many opportunities. Point is, there aren't many teams that have three productive wide receivers.
Thats not my point at all . . and you probably know that because this has been discussed on here so many time
Not quoting the whole thing for the sake of the visuals.
But, we’ll simply agree to disagree on the Brady/Leftwich topic.
We move on…
For sure.
The real difference may not even fall on either of them as much as just the team overall.
Overall, I agree with you, except the catalyst part.The year the Browns went to the playoffs they ran the ball for 150 yards per game (#2) in the league and ran the football more than they asked Baker to throw. I'm not giving him all the credit for their success of making the playoffs when he wasn't the catalyst for their success.I think Baker can’t be assessed as a one year wonder, as that leaves out the years in Cleveland where he lifted the team to the playoffs - that hadn’t sniffed it for 30 years….
Goedeki definitely came into his own at ROT - took awhile, but he seems he achieved “mainstay” status (at least in Canales offense). The only question I have is what will be expected in Coen’s version of this offense?
Mauch is a tremendous LG, he pulls and is one of the fastest o-lineman we have.
Listening to Coen’s presser, his o-line will be a weapon in the run game. I assume that means a lot of pulling. He only mentioned Wirffs as a weapon, but he’ll likely need to assess the rest of the line, and Mauch being a rookie and downfield blocking for some of R White’s big runs shows he’s a bit of a weapon, but I haven’t focused on whether Goedeke was just covering the basics, or whether he allowed the run game improve - I think so - I just haven’t looked at that way.
Should be able to get interior linemen Day 2 or 3, and that should add depth & therefore upgrade the o-line.
I like Trey Palmer, but one year for a rookie doesn’t put him in the same range as the players you mentioned. Some have a body of work that indicates what you can expect.
The only reason Evans could possibly be a concern is that, while he IS a proven stud - when does the age fall-off happen? His football IQ is stellar, his position IQ is off the chart (his bag of tricks to get open is deep), and while he does have sneaky speed for someone his size, he also has begun to fight through some injuries that take a toll.
Hope Palmer can take some of the load off Evans & Godwin - but no way can Evans significance be replaced.
I didn't put Trey Palmer in any range of players. He's pretty well unproven, and hasn't been super productive just like many of teams third best receiver on their team. Our just happen to be a rookie who didn't get many opportunities. Point is, there aren't many teams that have three productive wide receivers.
Having your new OC specifically say Baker is an “igniter” means he sees him as a catalyst, because we saw it in Cleveland, and Coen saw it in LA, and then he and we all saw it play out, again, last season.
Because Baker made mostly good decisions, and made the pass game a force multiplier, also helped the run game…but I don’t want to go deep into the weeds. The fact is, Baker makes us better than we would be without him. This years performance ‘proved it’ - for the Bucs, and a few other interested teams.
Lol, you know the funny thing about this whole conversation is that two or three years ago I was you; defending Lamar’s performances with stats. I reall believed he could learn to be a NFL QB. But the reality is that he stopped growing a couple years ago. Even his own fanbase has come to realize what he is. And what he isn’t.
but like I said, I’m not really here to argue with you guys, especially not about Lamar. Just wait another season or two. You’ll see it too. Ditto Tua. Baker is better than both; another season maybe two and you’ll see it too.
Another poster whose opinion trumps stats. It's true because he said it's true. If you don't believe him, just wait a year...or two. This is going to be an entertaining offseason.
Lol, at the end of the 2017 season, Alex Smith earned the dubious distinction of being "statistically the best QB in the NFL." No Chiefs fan believed it, and I doubt many fans of other teams believed it either, but STATISTICALLY, Alex was the best QB in the 2017 regular season. Later, for 3-4 glorious weeks in 2019, Matt "Midnight" Moore, former HS teacher, was statistically the best QB in the league. It was fun saying it, but no one actually believed it.
Statistics are great for helping to quantify performance; they help paint a numerical picture of a given performance. But they don't give us the entire picture. That's what the tape is for. The tape is what dispels any notion that Frank Gore is in the same stratosphere as Barry Sanders, the stats notwithstanding.
Earlier I said that Lamar was a great runner, not a great QB. That was a bit harsh. I should've said he was a great athlete, because he's more than just a runner, but he's never been a great QB, and he'll likely never be a great QB.
That's what the tape is for.
So the tape you've seen of Baker's career tells you he's better than Lamar and Tua? Come on, Man!
That's what the tape is for.
So the tape you've seen of Baker's career tells you he's better than Lamar and Tua? Come on, Man!
Lamar Jackson is obviously a better regular season quarterback than Baker. However, in the playoffs, yes, Baker appears to elevate his game and has been better and more successful than Lamar Jackson. Lamar appears to go in the other direction. This was the Ravens year, dominated other winning teams in regular season and they choked. Hard to speak highly of Lamar if he's going to trip up every time they get close. No excuses this year for Baltimore who looked unbeatable in December. that said, Baltimore is not a playoff team without Lamar.
in terms of Tua, i think you are over-rating his performance. I think most would pick him over Baker because of the simple fact that he is a few years younger and has stringed together two solid seasons in a row but i'd put him right in the Baker Mayfield tranche of QBs in terms of stats and performance. Let's say you were to break out QBs in threes (top 10, 11-21, and 22-32); both Tua and Baker would fall in the middle category. Tua 0-1 in his young career thus far playoff wise
That's what the tape is for.
So the tape you've seen of Baker's career tells you he's better than Lamar and Tua? Come on, Man!
Yes. Look, I get it. Everyone sees the obvious athletic abilities and then his career stats, that come with Lamar and just assume he must have some significatn grasp of how to execute an offense. But the reality is that he only knows how to operate his offense, which is heavily predicated on both his legs and a lot of snaps where they run the ball, effectively reducing his exposure to having to stand in the pocket, make his pre-snap reads, adjust his protections, understand where the pressure is coming from and execute the offense as a passer. And a lot of that has to be done on time and in rhythm; things that Lamar just struggles with.
Tua has issues with deep shots, but also has trouble when you take away his first two reads. He's inconsistent about throwing over the pressure to his hots, is immobile, fragile, and can't consistently operate the offense in a hurry-up/2-minute drill. But he at least has a better understanding of a traditional offense than Lamar. But Baker is a better passer, due to his significantly stronger arm and much better touch or arm talent. Baker can dot guys downfield that Tua could never dream about reaching. Baker is also a lot better at protecting his receivers than TUa. tua throws a lot of hospital balls because he doesn't seem to understand the difference.
Baker is better than at the mental aspects of playing QB. He's not elite, except for his arm strength/talent (basically he's a shorter version of Matt Stafford), but he understands how an offense works at a higher level than either Lamar/Tua. And the tape consistently shows that.
Baker can dot guys downfield that Tua could never dream about reaching.
I'm not as young as I once was, so my memory may not be as good as it once was, but I don't remember Baker "dotting guys downfield" that often this past year. In fact, in my mind, that's one of his weaknesses. That and his number of batted passes which you list as a weakness for Tua. I didn't watch a lot of Dolphins games so I don't know how Baker's batted balls compares to Tua's. I do know Baker had a lot, though. Here's hoping he improves his play in my mind and continues to be as good as he is in yours...
That's what the tape is for.
So the tape you've seen of Baker's career tells you he's better than Lamar and Tua? Come on, Man!
Ive Never SEEN Lamar or TUA. But do either have a "statistical game" as remarkable as Ballerz vs the GB. Or have they ever had a two game split like the 2 playoffs games...subtract 1 int- the one to Evans then compare apples to Apples- try to incorporate some non numerical stats- like how many were come from behind wins- did either Play BIG in the most important games or did they play flat while seeing Mahomes on the other sideline waiting to eviscerate them on the field of PLAY during a playoff game? If so, pls present what you got, "selected" stats and color commentary. I don't have enough exposure of either with my own 2 eyes. Maybe they do, maybe they have games like that consistently ALL season with maybe 1 or 2 "off" games. Now Mahomes does it on the regular...but who else? Josh Allen Maybe?
