I agree, and I too think Harbaugh likes Herbert, but Harbaugh has done crazy impulsive things, and if he can get McCarthy and add draft capital to bolster his team. He's crazy enough to do it. Maybe not Ditka "all for williams" crazy, but up there.@badabingbucs This is coming out of crazyland leftfield, but, what if Harbaugh does something crazy, and his "JJ MCCarthy is the best" comments come true and he drafts McCarthy, ...... What do we give up for Herbert.... if anything?
per your post, which didn't copy over:
exactly and some are outlandish options that would have at at 3-4 wins.
what option is reasonable and will be best for the team to retain talent that keeps us competitive.
Kirk Cousins pretty darn good but going to cost near $40M and is 1-4 in the playoffs. Shit, even Baker Mayfield has more wins than that. How will Cousins bounce back from injury?
Russell Wilson missed playoffs last two years with Denver. How would he do with Tampa? Baker proven he can win in Tampa. We'd be going out on a limb that Russell has any juice left.
so yeah, what option is better than Mayfield, lower risk to keep us competitive and is realistically available
you are exactly right. it's why those in the Baker camp are simply in the realistic, he gives us the best chance to remain competitive camp. Sure, we'd love a Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes, but they just dont come around often. We wont be picking high enough for a top QB, and Mayfield likely better option than Cousins and Wilson. Why even toy with it. Be different if Mahomes, Allen, or Burrow were available.
People act like franchise QBs grow on trees, yet Baker is second only to Brady in terms of successful Buc Seasons since our 2002 Super bowl run.
1. 2020 - Brady, Super bowl win
2. 2021 - Brady, franchise record wins, beat Eagles in first round
3. 2023 - Mayfield, beat Eagles in first round of playoffs
4. 2005- Simms, Bucs won 11 games but lost in first round
5. 2007 - Garcia, Bucs won 9 games, but lost in first round
6 - 2022 - Brady, Bucs had first losing season in Bradys career, lost in first round.
in terms of Herbert, i think one of the reasons Harbaugh chose the Chargers was because of him so don't think that's realistic. what would his trade value be? Would i trade 3 first round picks for him? No. But a first rounder and 2 thirds....yeah.
depending on the o.c., i would be very intrigued to see Herbert toss to Evans, Godwin and others. But without top picks to bring in new blood with Evans being long in the tooth, I certainly agree it might be too much.
If he does the ^above, he’ll be the best QB in the NFC-if he can only consistently be who he was against GB, the Stinkin Iggles, and The Lions.
That would be an awesome, though unlikely, outcome.
As of today, he’s probably the 7th to 8th best QB in the NFC.
2 Words for DH
What If!!
Kinda win win either way. Perspective, If hes truly a Ballerz like I HOPE'ium, then AWESOME. If Not maybe we FINALLY get to see TRASK, or maybe JL has to du general Manager Type Kung Fu Like luring BA outta retirement...AGAIN, who cares, alls well that ends well...just make it entertaining until then. Even if it Doesnt end well, I love the taste of POPCORN AND CROW at the same time...its perspective, which is a choice.
Comparing apples to apples and ONLY UsIng the LAST 2 games as CONtext, frame his performance for me against the current GOAT P'Ma. What were HIS Stats in his first 2 playoff games this year. Ill even add a twist- take Pa'mas single best game this season, and add that to his yardage total, completions, completion %, TDs, rush yards, etc and balance it with negative plays, sacks, INTs, penalties even if someone has the gumpChun. And Use Ballerz game vs GB as his third...same stuff. Then lets compile a head to head stat battle and we can see...3 games to 3 games head to head. I bet it'ss be alot closer or maybe even different than I thInk.
Yeah…
I’m not going to take the time to compile the stats from that EXTREMELY cherry-picked scenario there.
You can Cherry PICK whatever stats YOU LIke, just use those 3 games. And buddy, Dont waste so much time, YUo can du in 5 minutes what would literally take me hours to do...Im truly that pathetic with the details, I just like watching a fight in a cathartic vicarious manner first postulated by Freud- weIrd duck also'that'1. Yeah I like watching my guys play their hearts out, thats really what the Buccaneers are to me. Im a Buccaneer at heart...I DRINK RUM BEFORE 11 on a Wednesday. I guess, today may be the last day of my Vacay. I should really just get back to work, but retirement is sooo fun. I guess Ill decide on that tomorrow and just partI 1 last day....or, yeah, I call that a soft LIne.
Anyhoo, just like the big 5 or something, positive and negatives. Add Bias where fit, its virtually impossible to produce a completely neutral set of evidence, even choosing which stats to choose, is a form of bias, who cares, just let it slide off your back. Show me how much better P'Ma was in his 3 best games this year (doesnt even need to be the 2 playoff ones-ill expand the criterion to make it even more biased), or we can just agree that Ballerz has an X-Factor or maybe What if-Factor, something that we can gamble on a bit and make it risky, Ill go ALL IN ON WHAT IF 6, he's just so likable, a David vs Goliath story line, I like those stories, the ones in which something impossible is CRUSHED by sheer heart and will and the IM is sliced off leaving only POSSIBLE, I saw that vs the IGGLES, I KNEW THEN he MIGHT Bz our best option...Anyhoo-tootaloo gud talking 2U
2024 season will be a telling year for Justin Herbert
His cap hit in 2025 is $37M, 2026 is $46M, 2027 is $58M, and in 2028 is $71M.
Will be the first year with Harbaugh and we saw how that worked out for guys like Winston (Arians), Wilson (Payton), and Carr (McDaniels) off the top of my head. Now one would think Harbaugh chose LA becuase of Herbert and hes a guy with all the tools; however
he has a losing record in 4 seasons as starter and he seems to have regressed from the numbers he was putting up his first 2 years.
He aint going anywhere in 2024 and likely beyond but just saying your theory may not be too far fetched if 2024 goes south...might even have 2025 but if they are .500 with Harbaugh through those 2 years, he isn't their starter in 2026.
Will be the first year with Harbaugh and we saw how that worked out for guys like Winston (Arians), Wilson (Payton), and Carr (McDaniels) off the top of my head.
Now do Brady with Arians, Hurts with Siriani, and Stafford with McVay.
I mean, just off the top of my head.
Keep him. Improve the roster and hope for the best. If he regresses, plug in the next guy and move on.but because of his limitations.
He definitely has them, but what is the alternate plan?
Assume we dont sign Mayfield BUT we keep Evans and any others. What do we do at QB?
Up above, Badabing addresses Cousins and Wilson. Maybe one of them? Trask?
I'd probably go Russ if I had to choose in terms of talent. He wasn't bad last year for the Broncos but from what I've read he isn't someone I want in my locker room. Run it back with Mayfield and see if he can improve upon his career year.
So it looks like there is more agreement than might be apparent on the central point on MAYFIELD because you say and I agree "Keep him. Improve the roster and hope for the best. If he regresses, plug in the next guy and move on" and yes "Run it back with Mayfield and see if he can improve upon his career year."
I think that has been Badabings point all along and I agree. It seems there are a few posters who just know they dont want Mayfield, but dont have an alternative.
For the Bucs next year to be close to what they were this year, I dont know that Mayfield has to improve as much as the team around him has to improve, meaning a defense that plays like the end of the season and a running game that runs like the end of the season. Just get us past the dumpster fire of middle of the season and for Mayfield just less variance and the Bucs are competitive, although the division is looking tougher.
On Wilson, yes he is NOT apparently someone you want in the locker room. Disapppointing
Will be the first year with Harbaugh and we saw how that worked out for guys like Winston (Arians), Wilson (Payton), and Carr (McDaniels) off the top of my head.
Now do Brady with Arians, Hurts with Siriani, and Stafford with McVay.
I mean, just off the top of my head.
Think BIGGER- Johnson with AikMAN, BILL WALSH with YOUNG, SHULA MARINO....GO BIG OR GO HOME WITH YOUR AMBITIONS. BRADY>BillBPC, even that proves that a GREAT one can do it ON HIS OWN, can even P'Ma claim that...would he still have turnt into P'Ma without Reid??? I KNOW Brady would STILL BEEN BRADY DESPITE BillbPHC! Question IS, how HOT is the FIRE in the CENTER of 6's chest??? Popcorn READY!!!
Keep him. Improve the roster and hope for the best. If he regresses, plug in the next guy and move on.but because of his limitations.
He definitely has them, but what is the alternate plan?
Assume we dont sign Mayfield BUT we keep Evans and any others. What do we do at QB?
Up above, Badabing addresses Cousins and Wilson. Maybe one of them? Trask?
I'd probably go Russ if I had to choose in terms of talent. He wasn't bad last year for the Broncos but from what I've read he isn't someone I want in my locker room. Run it back with Mayfield and see if he can improve upon his career year.
So it looks like there is more agreement than might be apparent on the central point on MAYFIELD because you say and I agree "Keep him. Improve the roster and hope for the best. If he regresses, plug in the next guy and move on" and yes "Run it back with Mayfield and see if he can improve upon his career year."
DING DING DING
Another Mic Drop POST
This TIME Authored by Blayton. Good post Buddy, keep up the solid work!
You can Cherry PICK whatever stats YOU LIke, just use those 3 games.
Okay.
So, here' you go:
BAKER MAYFIELD
@GB - 381 yards, 4 TD's, 0 INT's, 158.3 Rating
PHI - 337 yards, 3 TD's, 0 INT's, 119.8 Rating
@HOU - 265 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INT's, 119.4 Rating
PATRICK MAHOMES
@BUF - 215 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INT's, 131.6 Rating
LAC - 424 yards, 4 TD's, 1 INT's, 129.5 Rating
CHI - 272 yards, 3 TD's, 0 INT's, 127.3 Rating
--------------------
So, since you want to compare "apples to apples", shall I run this same comparison from last year (and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that)?
You can Cherry PICK whatever stats YOU LIke, just use those 3 games.
Okay.
So, here' you go:
BAKER MAYFIELD
@GB - 381 yards, 4 TD's, 0 INT's, 158.3 Rating
PHI - 337 yards, 3 TD's, 0 INT's, 119.8 Rating
@HOU - 265 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INT's, 119.4 Rating
PATRICK MAHOMES
@BUF - 215 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INT's, 131.6 Rating
LAC - 424 yards, 4 TD's, 1 INT's, 129.5 Rating
CHI - 272 yards, 3 TD's, 0 INT's, 127.3 Rating
--------------------
So, since you want to compare "apples to apples", shall I run this same comparison from last year (and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that)?
No, the past year bears little to “what could be” with sum consistency, that was just year 1 with the Bucs and a new system. It’s not fair to compare P’Ma’s last several years to anything other than three recentish* games. All I’m doing is suggesting we need to reconsider what his ceiling MIGHT BE with those ThreE games to set the bar. Now let’s see if he can replicate that consistently? That is the question is it not…which 6 is gonna show up Each SunDay for the fans and his fam next year. He’s a feisty one…I like that.
anyhoo thanks, closer than you though tho right??? Shocking even.
lets add it up the stats you selected.
yards 983 vs 911
tds 9 vs 9 =wash
rating avg over the 3games 132.5 vs 129.46
Last 0 INTs vs 1
No, the past year bears little to “what could be” with sum consistency, that was just year 1 with the Bucs and a new system. It’s not fair to compare P’Ma’s last several years to anything other than three recentish* games.
Lol!
Of course you don’t want to do a more full comparison. Then it would truly be an “apples to apples” comparison and not this cherry picked scenario you came up with.
I’m not questioning your desire to see Baker succeed. And, he’s shown brief “flashes”.
But, as many have accurately stated, he’s consistently inconsistent.
No, the past year bears little to “what could be” with sum consistency, that was just year 1 with the Bucs and a new system. It’s not fair to compare P’Ma’s last several years to anything other than three recentish* games.
Lol!
Of course you don’t want to do a more full comparison. Then it would truly be an “apples to apples” comparison and not this cherry picked scenario you came up with.
I’m not questioning your desire to see Baker succeed. And, he’s shown brief “flashes”.
But, as many have accurately stated, he’s consistently inconsistent.
Not tru, allow me to explain. P’Ma has been in the same-and most- stable, consistent, and nurturing environments possible Since he was drafted. Andy Reid molded him from then. You wanna compare those years to BallerZ and all the inconsistency and instability and toxic environment….i don’t see how that’s apples to apples. Not fair, P’Ma was set up to succeed from year 1 and Ballerz was set up to FAIL from year one.
the closest true apples to apples would be comparing Ballerz rookie Season-in that awful environment to P’Mas- factoring in the best possible starting point in regards to environment and having one of the greatest coaches of all time mentor him. Is that apples to apples?
na man, just take this years best 3 games and put them head to head. There is no way to compare apples to apples…Baller hasn’t had the same OC for more than a year no?
na man, just take this years best 3 games and put them head to head. There is no way to compare apples to apples…Baller hasn’t had the same OC for more than a year no?
Mahomes first full year as a starter, he threw for over 5,000 yards and 50 TD’s.
I don’t care if you give Mayfield a full season sitting on the bench with Reid as his HC (like Pat had), he’s still not sniffing those numbers.
Hell, I’d bet $5K that Baker wouldn’t match that if you took a defender off the field and played 11 vs. 10.
Not an indictment against Baker, just more of a response to your silly argument wanting to compare the two in your “cherry picking/no context” scenario.
na man, just take this years best 3 games and put them head to head. There is no way to compare apples to apples…Baller hasn’t had the same OC for more than a year no?
Mahomes first full year as a starter, he threw for over 5,000 yards and 50 TD’s.
I don’t care if you give Mayfield a full season sitting on the bench with Reid as his HC (like Pat had), he’s still not sniffing those numbers.
Hell, I’d bet $5K that Baker wouldn’t match that if you took a defender off the field and played 11 vs. 10.
Not an indictment against Baker, just more of a response to your silly argument wanting to compare the two in your “cherry picking/no context” scenario.
Never Said that he WOULD. And what DOES FIRST FULL YEAR AS A STARTER MEAN- I MEAN HIS ROOKIE YEAR-Oh, did he get to sit on the bench for a time and LEARN as a rookie'well'darn. P'Ma is the current active GOAT, and if ANYONE will pass TB12, it will be P'Ma. I give him a 50/50 shot at surpassing TB12 as the GOAT OF GOATS. But alas, he plays for the Cheifs, not here....But theres a guy, that can approximate some important traits. You know P'Mas gritty fiery play, his penchant for the SPLASH PLAY in crunch time, his leadership and wisdom despite being young, his coachability, his ability to develop tru comradery with his team mates, his ability as a passer AND SCRAMBLER, his arm talent, accuracy, strength decision making, killer instinct...all of those things. Lets say you had a QB that possessed, to a modicum albeit, those traits. The only thing that QB needs, perhaps, is an OPPORTUNITY to develop those natural inborn characteristics...lets be real here, the physical part is natural born gifts, its the mental part that BECOMES GENERALSHIP. I dont know about you, but when I see P'Ma and TB12, Dan Marino, Joe Montana...I see Field Generals first, and QB second. All of those guys NAILED IT!!!! So maybe our guy doesnt quite nail it, consistently enough, I say give him some real coaching and See What If...That is all. Like peoples argument regarding Trask and NOT KNOWING HIS POTENTIAL. I say the same about our Guy, I dont think we've seen what Baller is capable of with actual coaching and stability...thus far he's been COMPLETEY on his own and Haterz sprouted from the moment he was drafted by the Browns, NO ONE CAN FIX THE BROWNS, NOT BERNIE, NOT TB, NOT MA'Homey. ANd Baller was expected to fix that... Yeah, that guy was set up for success. And despite that, he STILL throws out GEMS, despite being on his own, having haterz poised all around him. His Coach (CUiNca'T) is a rookie and he goes out and has his BEST CAREER YEAR, has the best "split" in the first 2 games of the playoffs for his 3rd or 4th "Journeyman Destination, like wtf) and he throws out Gems like GB, like the stinkin iggles, like the Lions. He threw out Gems his entire career Pittsburg/KC just not consistently enough,...but wait theres MORE. His OC the C, that was supposed to provide him with some stability...FINALLY,...uhm, he jets for the opposition. This Guy doesnt even really know if hes gonna BE HERE next year EVEN after having this past year...yeah, thats called stability. Sure, Im game, We'll invent a time machine, go back in Time and swap Baller and P'Ma's circumstances and CONTEXT. P'Mah will have been drafted by the Browns first overall. He will Be Molded by HUE JACKSON AND GREGG WILLIAMS and BE EXPECTED TO BE THE SAVIOR of the BROWNS ENTIRE DESTINY. And then Baller can be picked 10th overall by Andy Reid, and just let flourish at his own pace (See above, first full year as a starter smh-environment) with good Coaching and some Ballsy playcalling is 5000k yards be completely out of the question in his first full year as a starter!, especially if Reid is out to prove a POINT. So maybe your right Baller doesnt get to 5K yards or 50 TDs, Maybe he gets 38 TDs and 4400 yards. Id Take that stat line all day every day, but lets approximate P'Mas "stat-line" as a rookie (no time for full time starter status, your not even the starter, youre expected to BE THE SAVIOR from Day1) with the Browns and HUE JACKson calling the plays hoping to save his JOB...P'Ma IS the first overall pick and savior afterall??? Get to saving dem'browns. Would P'Ma finish with about 3,725 passing yards? Or Maybe even surpass Peyton Manning and Russell Wilson for most touchdowns thrown in a rookie season with 27 up to that Point. Sure buddy. Maybe this is as close to APPLES AND APPLES AS YOU CAN GET, BUT this one takes a bit more abstract logic than most are able to muster. GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES and HYPOTHETICAL CONJECTURE OF WHAT IF, hmmm, I wonder whats about to happen THIS OofSeason. Popcorn at the ready, maybe crow as a light evening snack. Even a $10,000 gamble of a crow filled snack. Are you game to play. If you come, play to win...10g's.
