Saying Winston hasn't started since he left Tampa and a poster saying that's not true. I then suggest, you are right i forgot about that season he started 7 games and got hurt. He then says, the following year as well - a season he started 3 games and got benched.
He was hurt that season as well. He wasn’t benched.
Listen, buddy.
You made a factual claim that Winston never started again after leaving here, in an effort to bolster your argument.
You got called out. You attempted to own up to it by moving the goalposts as you usually do, and subsequently got called out again.
Perhaps instead of crying about it, continuing to move goalposts and deflecting; you should just take your L and move on.
Happens to everyone.
Saying Winston hasn't started since he left Tampa and a poster saying that's not true. I then suggest, you are right i forgot about that season he started 7 games and got hurt. He then says, the following year as well - a season he started 3 games and got benched.
He was hurt that season as well. He wasn’t benched.
Listen, buddy.
You made a factual claim that Winston never started again after leaving here, in an effort to bolster your argument.
You got called out. You attempted to own up to it by moving the goalposts as you usually do, and subsequently got called out again.
Perhaps instead of crying about it, continuing to move goalposts and deflecting; you should just take your L and move on.
Happens to everyone.
and what was the point i was trying to make? do you recall?
and what was the point i was trying to make? do you recall?
Actually, I don’t.
It became irrelevant to me once you started throwing out false and dishonest claims/points.
Example 1: Using a winning % as defining most successful season as opposed to playoff success. When asked who had a more successful season in 2007 - the undefeated Patriots or the 10-6 Super bowl Champion Giants; sure some knuckleheads' will pick the Patriots, but 9.5/10 would choose the Champions.
so what about the Philadelphia Eagles versus the Tampa Bay Buccaneers this year. One team had a much better record but the other team went further in the playoffs. Not saying who is the better team but which team had greater success this year?
so now take it further to this hypothetical that a Bucs team team that went 10-6 versus the 9-8 Buccaneers. The one Buccaneer team had more wins but failed to make the playoffs while the other won a playoff game. Again, 9.5/10 would choose playoff success. Again, argue that 2010 Bucs over 2023 Bucs in a room full of people in person. They may get the straight jacket out for you.
Amended for playoff records, snookums:
2005: 11-6 or .647 winning percentage
2010: 10-6 or .625 winning percentage
2016: 9-7 or .563 winning percentage
2008: 9-7 or .563 winning percentage
2007: 9-8 or .529 winning percentage
2023: 10-9 or .526 winning percentage
None of those teams won the Superbowl, so that isn't putting any season over another. It's still the 6th most successful season under your parameters when you include the playoffs. There's reality, and then there's your perception of reality.
Is Baker Mayfield perfect? No.
We only glimpsed a perfect QB ONCE in the entirety of franchise existence. However, that 3 years of greatness is still better than most teams have ever gotten.
Ballerz mentality and ability hit us at the right time. His penchant for “hero-ball” is still there. Sometimes it’s unbelievable (witness that throw to Mike Evans to the one yard line, with seconds left on the clock, to close out the 1st half of the divisional playoff game against Detroit), and sometimes heart stopping (last pass/interception in the same game).
However, it cannot be denied that we would not have won the NFC South again without him. We would not have beaten the Eagles in the super-wildcard game, without him.
he has matured, there some key things we need to do to get the best out of Ballerz: re-sign Mike, improve the interior of the line, improve the run game.
Those are all things the organization can, and likely WILL do.
THAT will allow us the best chance to do what EVERY Buc fan wants - keep winning. The thing that makes this exciting is that he’s only 28 years old!
Ballerz skills are still near peak, he’s attained a level of maturity (on and off the field), and he WANTS to be here. All good things. We can win as long as this guy is behind center, his own linemen & receivers believe and have said this.
Baker, is a Baller. It’s what we need, and ironically, it’s what we have - the future is so bright I’m dusting off my shades…
Example 1: Using a winning % as defining most successful season as opposed to playoff success. When asked who had a more successful season in 2007 - the undefeated Patriots or the 10-6 Super bowl Champion Giants; sure some knuckleheads' will pick the Patriots, but 9.5/10 would choose the Champions.
so what about the Philadelphia Eagles versus the Tampa Bay Buccaneers this year. One team had a much better record but the other team went further in the playoffs. Not saying who is the better team but which team had greater success this year?
so now take it further to this hypothetical that a Bucs team team that went 10-6 versus the 9-8 Buccaneers. The one Buccaneer team had more wins but failed to make the playoffs while the other won a playoff game. Again, 9.5/10 would choose playoff success. Again, argue that 2010 Bucs over 2023 Bucs in a room full of people in person. They may get the straight jacket out for you.
Amended for playoff records, snookums:
2005: 11-6 or .647 winning percentage
2010: 10-6 or .625 winning percentage
2016: 9-7 or .563 winning percentage
2008: 9-7 or .563 winning percentage
2007: 9-8 or .529 winning percentage
2023: 10-9 or .526 winning percentage
None of those teams won the Superbowl, so that isn't putting any season over another. It's still the 6th most successful season under your parameters when you include the playoffs. There's reality, and then there's your perception of reality.
reality
It's very difficult," Harmon said in his postgame press conference. "That's why we play the game. …You come back to play meaningful games. You play to reach the playoffs and give yourself a chance to play for and win championships. We fell short in that effort, so it's tough.
and what was the point i was trying to make? do you recall?
Actually, I don’t.
It became irrelevant to me once you started throwing out false and dishonest claims/points.
DH, do you agree with Biggs that NFL success is best measured in winning percentage OR do NFL teams measure success themselves by getting to the post season and ultimately a Super Bowl?
Biggs winning percentage or “race to 10” that “should have been a race to 11?”
Example 1: Using a winning % as defining most successful season as opposed to playoff success. When asked who had a more successful season in 2007 - the undefeated Patriots or the 10-6 Super bowl Champion Giants; sure some knuckleheads' will pick the Patriots, but 9.5/10 would choose the Champions.
so what about the Philadelphia Eagles versus the Tampa Bay Buccaneers this year. One team had a much better record but the other team went further in the playoffs. Not saying who is the better team but which team had greater success this year?
so now take it further to this hypothetical that a Bucs team team that went 10-6 versus the 9-8 Buccaneers. The one Buccaneer team had more wins but failed to make the playoffs while the other won a playoff game. Again, 9.5/10 would choose playoff success. Again, argue that 2010 Bucs over 2023 Bucs in a room full of people in person. They may get the straight jacket out for you.
Amended for playoff records, snookums:
2005: 11-6 or .647 winning percentage
2010: 10-6 or .625 winning percentage
2016: 9-7 or .563 winning percentage
2008: 9-7 or .563 winning percentage
2007: 9-8 or .529 winning percentage
2023: 10-9 or .526 winning percentage
None of those teams won the Superbowl, so that isn't putting any season over another. It's still the 6th most successful season under your parameters when you include the playoffs. There's reality, and then there's your perception of reality.
The thing about data is, it is often presented without context. Take away the pieces arranged FOR TB12 and Baker doesn’t help you much, yet the reason he helped - those pieces ARE still here… except without Ballerz - the pieces would not have mattered much. Baker Mayfield was the one ingredient that was both available, and acquired - and his abilities & mental toughness maximized the pieces that contributed to winning more games than the odds-makers (aka: statistician/data analysts) anticipated.
Biggsy, I remember your excellent penchant for data, just thought I’d add a little context (wink).
Stats are like looking at a painting from different places in the room, your perception of the art can change when you see the light on the painting from different sides of the room….
and what was the point i was trying to make? do you recall?
Actually, I don’t.
It became irrelevant to me once you started throwing out false and dishonest claims/points.
his point was that the Bucs dodged a bullet by not overpaying to keep Winston
assume you agree with that?
he followed that up by overstating Winston’s downward path since we didn’t sign him. I think most would agree downward path, so the debate was basically about the degree of decline.
Stats are like looking at a painting from different places in the room, your perception of the art can change when you see the light on the painting from different sides of the room….
Great post
The thing about data is, it is often presented without context. Take away the pieces arranged FOR TB12 and Baker doesn’t help you much, yet the reason he helped - those pieces ARE still here… except without Ballerz - the pieces would not have mattered much. Baker Mayfield was the one ingredient that was both available, and acquired - and his abilities & mental toughness maximized the pieces that contributed to winning more games than the odds-makers (aka: statistician/data analysts) anticipated.
Biggest, I remember your excellent penchant for data, just thought I’d add a little context (wink).
Stats are like looking at a painting from different places in the room, your perception of the art can change when you see the light on the painting from different sides of the room….
The data is the data. I'm not addressing Mayfield at all. In the NFL - and all professional sports for that matter - "success" is gauged by winning games and championships. None of the teams we're discussing won the Superbowl, so the next logical thing to look at is their win/loss record.
When asked what metric he was using to define "success", the poster that made this statement answered by saying the subjective "joy". There is a reason for that. His real answer to the question appears to be a playoff victory, which is fine. This is the only team in that time period to win a playoff game. This isn't debatable. But ultimately that playoff victory led the same ending of the 2005 season - a playoff loss.
The 2005 team won more games than the 2023 team. The 2005 team lost less games than the 2023 team. Both teams won the division. Neither team won the Superbowl. Which team was more successful?
DH, do you agree with Biggs that NFL success is best measured in winning percentage OR do NFL teams measure success themselves by getting to the post season and ultimately a Super Bowl?
I’m really getting tired of your gimmick of repeatedly asking me the same question when I’ve already answered it. So cut the trolling bullshit.
I’ve already said (now on multiple occasions) that last season was a success.
Now, on a side note, I think every team has their own measure for success based on individual seasons.
If Carolina were to win 8 games next year, but miss the playoffs, did they have a successful year? In my opinion, that would be a resounding yes.
If Tampa signs everyone back (AWJ, Evans, LVD, Baker) and fails to make it to the Conference Championship, did they have a successful year? In my opinion, it would be a no.
I may be in the minority, which I’m fine with. But, I wouldn’t base a team’s “success” on something as black or white as winning percentage or playoff results.
When asked what metric he was using to define "success", the poster that made this statement answered by saying the subjective "joy". There is a reason for that.
The reason: he knew you were trolling so he was mocking you
You knew his answer. You just admitted that. Yet, you portrayed it later as something different.
trolling: raising an absurd point or seizing on an ancillary issue purely to start an argument.
trolling: raising an absurd point or seizing on an ancillary issue purely to start an argument.
Dude, just fucking stop already.
You are just, if not more, guilty as anyone on here with this.
The thing about data is, it is often presented without context. Take away the pieces arranged FOR TB12 and Baker doesn’t help you much, yet the reason he helped - those pieces ARE still here… except without Ballerz - the pieces would not have mattered much. Baker Mayfield was the one ingredient that was both available, and acquired - and his abilities & mental toughness maximized the pieces that contributed to winning more games than the odds-makers (aka: statistician/data analysts) anticipated.
Biggest, I remember your excellent penchant for data, just thought I’d add a little context (wink).
Stats are like looking at a painting from different places in the room, your perception of the art can change when you see the light on the painting from different sides of the room….
The data is the data. I'm not addressing Mayfield at all. In the NFL - and all professional sports for that matter - "success" is gauged by winning games and championships. None of the teams we're discussing won the Superbowl, so the next logical thing to look at is their win/loss record.
When asked what metric he was using to define "success", the poster that made this statement answered by saying the subjective "joy". There is a reason for that. His real answer to the question appears to be a playoff victory, which is fine. This is the only team in that time period to win a playoff game. This isn't debatable. But ultimately that playoff victory led the same ending of the 2005 season - a playoff loss.
The 2005 team won more games than the 2023 team. The 2005 team lost less games than the 2023 team. Both teams won the division. Neither team won the Superbowl. Which team was more successful?
Not picking a fight with a guy who buys data streams by the barrel…and I did kinda commandeer your argument to make one of my own…but the data is only relevant within the context of the narrative.
its the story the data tells that creates interest. The 2005 team lost a playoff game, the 2023 team won a decisive victory against the team that one year previous, was dominant…and Ballerz hammered them.
So, I hijacked your data to make my own point. Yours was already well made.
