DH, do you agree with Biggs that NFL success is best measured in winning percentage OR do NFL teams measure success themselves by getting to the post season and ultimately a Super Bowl?
I’m really getting tired of your gimmick of repeatedly asking me the same question when I’ve already answered it. So cut the trolling bullshit.
I’ve already said (now on multiple occasions) that last season was a success.
Now, on a side note, I think every team has their own measure for success based on individual seasons.
If Carolina were to win 8 games next year, but miss the playoffs, did they have a successful year? In my opinion, that would be a resounding yes.
If Tampa signs everyone back (AWJ, Evans, LVD, Baker) and fails to make it to the Conference Championship, did they have a successful year? In my opinion, it would be a no.
I may be in the minority, which I’m fine with. But, I wouldn’t base a team’s “success” on something as black or white as winning percentage or playoff results.
If you answered about Biggs point before I just didn’t see it so my apologies I saw you say last year was a success. I was asking if you agreed with Biggs your answer is you don’t agree with Biggs or Badabing
Fair enough
NFL players coaches and teams clearly focus on getting to the post season. That is repeated so often (because it’s true) that it could legitimately be called “coach speak” or player speak or owner speak or GM speak lol
Always one for great timing Biggs is arguing winning percentage as a metric when we just finished a season that was literally built around a HC having to get to the playoffs to win his job.
I can imagine Bowles after the Bucs missed the playoffs this season arguing to the Glazers “but …. But.. the team was .624!!”
lol
its the story the data tells that creates interest. The 2005 team lost a playoff game, the 2023 team won a decisive victory against the team that one year previous, was dominant…and Ballerz hammered them.
This is all true, but leaves off the playoff loss in the next game. You skillfully evaded the question, and I'm genuinely curious to know your answer:
The 2005 team won more games than the 2023 team. The 2005 team lost less games than the 2023 team. Both teams won the division. Neither team won the Superbowl. Which team was more successful?
Auman - “Bowles is the only head coach in Bucs history to make the playoffs in each of his first two seasons as head coach. The other 12 were a combined 3-for-23 in trying to make the postseason in those first two years”
It’s fun, because we outperformed expectations. Which is kinda what the HC & GM thought could work - and while they certainly couldn’t have expected the way it happened, we have to give them credit for putting something together that could work.
Most of the success came because guys stepped up - QB, OC, LT, RT.
Baker was a force multiplier. He’s still here and he’s young. Keeping the pieces that allowed him to flourish will be key, improving the line, and running game will also be key - but this is a team - so improving the pass rush. & secondary are also needs.
Buc fans collectively, HAVE to feel better about heading into 2024 than they did in 2023. THAT is only because of one person, Ballerz.
Baker-Haters begone!
Buc fans collectively, HAVE to feel better about heading into 2024 than they did in 2023. THAT is only because of one person, Ballerz.
Actually, no it’s not.
But, you do you.
NFL players coaches and teams clearly focus on getting to the post season. That is repeated so often (because it’s true) that it could legitimately be called “coach speak” or player speak or owner speak or GM speak
With the Lombardi being the ultimate goal, of course making the playoffs is a focus.
But, I’ll go back to using Carolina as an example.
They won 2 games last year. Haven’t had an 8-win season in like 7 years or something.
If they were to win 8 this upcoming season, yet miss the playoffs (though in our division that could happen…lol), the Panthers brass would undoubtedly look at it as a successful season. Now, the expectation and “measure” on success would obviously be raised the following year.
The thing about data is, it is often presented without context. Take away the pieces arranged FOR TB12 and Baker doesn’t help you much, yet the reason he helped - those pieces ARE still here… except without Ballerz - the pieces would not have mattered much. Baker Mayfield was the one ingredient that was both available, and acquired - and his abilities & mental toughness maximized the pieces that contributed to winning more games than the odds-makers (aka: statistician/data analysts) anticipated.
Biggest, I remember your excellent penchant for data, just thought I’d add a little context (wink).
Stats are like looking at a painting from different places in the room, your perception of the art can change when you see the light on the painting from different sides of the room….
The 2005 team won more games than the 2023 team. The 2005 team lost less games than the 2023 team. Both teams won the division. Neither team won the Superbowl. Which team was more successful?
the team that won a playoff game
Auman - “Bowles is the only head coach in Bucs history to make the playoffs in each of his first two seasons as head coach. The other 12 were a combined 3-for-23 in trying to make the postseason in those first two years”
The job Todd Bowles did this season was incredible. I think he was also instrumental in influencing Baker Mayfield to sign with Tampa Bay (having Mike Evans & Chris Godwin probably didn’t hurt).
Bowles did a great job adjusting his game plan to include a new OC who was calling plays for the first time in his career. THAT was huge in me re-assessing my consideration of Todd Bowles. Have to admit, I was leaning anti-Bowles - not anymore. He’s pretty dang good calling defenses…and to my mind, he is a very good head coach.
I’m not rocking this boat, Bowles is much better than I gave him credit.
It’s fun, because we outperformed expectations. Which is kinda what the HC & GM thought could work - and while they certainly couldn’t have expected the way it happened, we have to give them credit for putting something together that could work.
Most of the success came because guys stepped up - QB, OC, LT, RT.
Baker was a force multiplier. He’s still here and he’s young. Keeping the pieces that allowed him to flourish will be key, improving the line, and running game will also be key - but this is a team - so improving the pass rush. & secondary are also needs.
Buc fans collectively, HAVE to feel better about heading into 2024 than they did in 2023. THAT is only because of one person, Ballerz.
Baker-Haters begone!
I suppose I'll have to take your lack of direct answer, as you've skillfully evaded once again, and read between the lines.
Agreed.
suppose I'll have to take your lack of direct answer
Biggs, you think the Saints were as successful as the Bucs this season?
you are a serial evader of questions lol
Auman - “Bowles is the only head coach in Bucs history to make the playoffs in each of his first two seasons as head coach. The other 12 were a combined 3-for-23 in trying to make the postseason in those first two years”
The job Todd Bowles did this season was incredible. I think he was also instrumental in influencing Baker Mayfield to sign with Tampa Bay (having Mike Evans & Chris Godwin probably didn’t hurt).
Bowles did a great job adjusting his game plan to include a new OC who was calling plays for the first time in his career. THAT was huge in me re-assessing my consideration of Todd Bowles. Have to admit, I was leaning anti-Bowles - not anymore. He’s pretty dang good calling defenses…and to my mind, he is a very good head coach.
I’m not rocking this boat, Bowles is much better than I gave him credit.
Agreed
I am looking forward to next season.
The 2005 team won more games than the 2023 team. The 2005 team lost less games than the 2023 team. Both teams won the division. Neither team won the Superbowl. Which team was more successful
The actual reporting by the AP of the 2005 playoff loss to the Redskins described the Redskins coach and win like this:
”
With the win Joe Gibbs has brought his team all the way back to respectability in just the second year in his coaching comeback. Washington was playing its first playoff game since 1999.
Gibbs, who coached the team to three Super Bowls in his first tenure, now sports a 17-5 career playoff record and is 5-0 in wild-card games.”
first playoff game as the measure of teams success and postseason success as the measure of Gibbs success
its the story the data tells that creates interest. The 2005 team lost a playoff game, the 2023 team won a decisive victory against the team that one year previous, was dominant…and Ballerz hammered them.
This is all true, but leaves off the playoff loss in the next game. You skillfully evaded the question, and I'm genuinely curious to know your answer:
The 2005 team won more games than the 2023 team. The 2005 team lost less games than the 2023 team. Both teams won the division. Neither team won the Superbowl. Which team was more successful?
Ooh, good question, loved that 2005 team and it ended almost as closely as 2023. Sorry I missed this (not skillful dodging, just that my a.d.d addled brain ranks squirrels as importantly as great posts), thanks for re-focusing.
I think 2023 is more successful. Although I shouldn’t use past performance to predict future success, I can say it looks like the increased losses were due to the OC figuring out his calls, and the QB figuring out his timing.
Because the team went on a late run, and because the pieces are all still here (and the QB doesn’t have the same love of gonja in his off time)…I’d have to say 2023. But it’s close, and likely has a lot of recency bias attached to it.
The thing about data is, it is often presented without context. Take away the pieces arranged FOR TB12 and Baker doesn’t help you much, yet the reason he helped - those pieces ARE still here… except without Ballerz - the pieces would not have mattered much. Baker Mayfield was the one ingredient that was both available, and acquired - and his abilities & mental toughness maximized the pieces that contributed to winning more games than the odds-makers (aka: statistician/data analysts) anticipated.
Biggest, I remember your excellent penchant for data, just thought I’d add a little context (wink).
Stats are like looking at a painting from different places in the room, your perception of the art can change when you see the light on the painting from different sides of the room….
The 2005 team won more games than the 2023 team. The 2005 team lost less games than the 2023 team. Both teams won the division. Neither team won the Superbowl. Which team was more successful?
the team that won a playoff game
Unsurprisingly, you're voting for the team that won less football games and lost more football games as being more successful.
But it’s close, and likely has a lot of recency bias attached to it.
I think that may be the case for others as well.
