Does Tampa really have a roster that is in the bottom third of the league?? I am looking at multiple preseason rankings where we are in the lower half to lower 1/3 of the league. A roster with Evans, Godwin, Wirfs, Mayfield, Vea, YaYa, Kancey, David, Winfield, and Dean seems to be pretty stout and that is if zero rookies show up.
Was just curious what others thought. I realize I have some optimism but, damn, it seems like we are being overlooked.
It's an odd question. You have the roster, but you also have teamwork, coaching, strength of schedule which factor in to the wins and losses. Can you be specific about who is strictly looking at the talent of the roster and putting them in the bottom 1/3?
But I can see how they could come by that rating if they simply look position by position. There are many Bucs players who have something to prove this year, especially on the O-line and D-line. The Bucs aren't full of superstar players. I don't think they're bottom 1/3rd, but I can see how outsiders could come to that assessment.
The Bucs have too much talent, depth, experience and youth mixed together to be bottom third of the league. I think it is preposterous but at the same time it is great that the Bucs are flying under the radar once more.
Seattle, Philly, Cowboys, 49ers are the only more talented rosters in the NFC if we are to be honest . The Bucs are on the talent level of the Falcons, Rams, Vikings, Bears, Packers, Lions, etc.
Not sure I've read anywhere that they have a "bottom 3rd" roster.
Even if so, that's a stretch.
You have some elite players that are either on or trending HoF careers in Winfield, Wirfs and Evans.
You have some really good players in LVD, Vea, and Godwin.
Then there's a handful of average to above average players in Goedeke, Dean, White, Otton, Mayfield.
Factor in some potential strong 2nd year output from guys like Kancey and Diaby, plus this year's class, and you've got a talented roster.
I mean, we're no San Fran, Detroit, Dallas, or Philly...but, we're certainly not in the 20's from a ranking perspective regarding the roster.
Definitely middle of pack talent as a team. We'll need high level QB'ing to knock off the elite teams (San Fran and DET) who are more talented across the board.
It's not just the talent that comes off the field at the combine. It's how the talent is developed to fit the team's scheme. This team has a lot of players who have something to prove as far as how they perform in the Bucs plan. Sure there are some players, Winfield, Wirfs, Vea, David, Dean, Godwin, Evans - we know what they are. You can rate their talent. There are many more IMO who have something to prove such as Barton, Kancey, Braswell, McCollum, Britt, Diaby, Whitehead, Hall, Tryon, Goedeke, Otton. How they are rated at the end of this year may be higher than at the beginning.... or not. And Mayfield also can still be counted in the "something to prove" category IMO.Definitely middle of pack talent as a team. We'll need high level QB'ing to knock off the elite teams (San Fran and DET) who are more talented across the board.
That's the thing about potential. It doesn't count until things play out. So I can understand if the Bucs don't rate highly because despite the success they had at the end of last year, they are still counting heavily on some players to continue to develop and show improvement, and for rookies to step in and make a difference right away.
So I can understand if the Bucs don't rate highly
So, would you have them in the bottom 3rd of the league?
And, if so, what teams would you have in front of them (from a roster perspective)?
Definitely middle of pack talent as a team. We'll need high level QB'ing to knock off the elite teams (San Fran and DET) who are more talented across the board.
Or stronger defensive play than the 49ers for example to overcome them.
Sure. It really comes down to the individuals either panning out to be good or bad. There is not a soul on this forum that tell you skill wise that Barton, Kancey, Braswell, McCollum, Britt, Diaby and Whitehead don't fit our scheme. We've been using the same Bowles scheme for the past 4-5 years now, so at this point the coaches know who is physically and mentally cut out to play for them. Its on the players to produce or we will falter/take steps back and be worse. I'll even throw in rookie Tykee Smith on that list because he plays an important role to this defense. Bucs are depending on a lot of unproven players to show that they are capable of being good players. Some of the unproven younger guys have potential to pan out but in this game nothing is certain. We will see who rises to the challenge in this game amongst men and who doesn't.It's not just the talent that comes off the field at the combine. It's how the talent is developed to fit the team's scheme. This team has a lot of players who have something to prove as far as how they perform in the Bucs plan. Sure there are some players, Winfield, Wirfs, Vea, David, Dean, Godwin, Evans - we know what they are. You can rate their talent. There are many more IMO who have something to prove such as Barton, Kancey, Braswell, McCollum, Britt, Diaby, Whitehead, Hall, Tryon, Goedeke, Otton. How they are rated at the end of this year may be higher than at the beginning.... or not. And Mayfield also can still be counted in the "something to prove" category IMO.Definitely middle of pack talent as a team. We'll need high level QB'ing to knock off the elite teams (San Fran and DET) who are more talented across the board.
That's the thing about potential. It doesn't count until things play out. So I can understand if the Bucs don't rate highly because despite the success they had at the end of last year, they are still counting heavily on some players to continue to develop and show improvement, and for rookies to step in and make a difference right away.
Bucs aren't highly rated for that reason and secondly, based off last year we showed our youth/inconsistency of being good and bad. Our young guys had good games vs bad teams but against the better ones weren't so good. Had we dominated the NFC South and won double digit games like we should've - I doubt their would be much pessimistic media takes.
There are no bad teams in the NFL but, ESPN has us at 19. Sportsnaut has us at 19. NFL.com has us at 19. Sports Illustrated has us at 24. CBS has us in the 20s. Just odd that you could see what we did this off-season (an A by anyone's measure) and feel that we are going to take a step back.
Well PFT says " 9. Buccaneers: For some reason, they still aren’t being taken seriously. They should be."
But ESPN put the Bucs at 22 which seems low, but their concerns are not unreasonable. I do believe that we'll get good production from Mauch and Barton. I have no idea what will happen at LG. But Mauch was not that good last year and Barton is a rookie. ESPN isn't giving the benefit of the doubt that they will succeed. Edge rusher was the biggest weakness. Braswell is a rookie, Tryon is not proven, Diaby hasn't been a starter until late in the year. The reason we have faith in the defense is because Todd Bowles has consistently put forth a good defense. We have faith that he'll produce another one. ESPN didn't make mention of the coaches. When it comes to the defense, Bowles should be factored into the equation.
IMHO a lot of the doom and gloom for the 2024 Bucs is schedule-driven. There are a bunch of highly rated teams they are playing this season.
It is a divisional first place schedule, but I think you are correct about the low/negative assessment of the roster va the schedule.
The GOAT Superbowl year saw the signing of an elite QB, and elite TE, and elite WR to match with BA calling the offense. This season, there were good, solid FA signings, but none considered elite. This season, there was a good draft - we think the adding of Barton will make our o-line elite, and we added a some good mid-round picks, but outside of the area we drafted a center - so to the outside world there were no elite level draft picks.
So, to your point, the roster looks mid-level. We see our Bucs as building off a solid but unexpected 23 season. We may be building a better team but we won’t know it. I think we did as much as we could in a season without committing economic hari kari, that we are actually targeting next year for that next level spending spree - but it’s admittedly a blue-sky guess at this point. The offense must get better, the defense must get better - and we have to prove it on the field.
Until we start beating teams we aren’t supposed to - I can’t argue with what the outside work thinks they see.
I’d bet we are getting better, but that’s just gambling…
So, bottom 3rd? I hope the rest of our schedule thinks that same way, I’ll take that bet.
Not sure about bottom 3rd but they don’t really have any big change (free agents) and these kinds of ranking have a bit new = improved bias. All the more true when the team had such mixed play last year and, right or wrong, questions at QB
One interesting aspect is Godwin. Has he lost a step? Does he regain form back in his best role and in a contract year? He could explode and that would be huge for the rest of the offense.
Do we run better with new pieces in the line and a better run plan/design?
another big factor
