Well, not exactly…
Remind me again of how many Top-10 offenses the “offensive guru” fielded in his 15 years as a head coach in the NFL?
Five as HC/OC and another two as OC with Philly.
I had one as an OC, and four as a HC.
Either way, nearly 70% of his offenses couldn’t crack the Top-10.
13 of his seasons as a OC/HC, his offenses finished in the bottom half of the league.
Gruden is the epitome of overrated.
Well Firebowles2023 will be fine with a simple name change to Firebowles2033!
IIRC, that name started out as FireLicht? Licht also got an extension. Maybe FireLicht now FireBowles might become FireGlazers2025?
If Bowles turns it around like Licht, I'll gladly eat crow and change my name to FireFire2027
Well Firebowles2023 will be fine with a simple name change to Firebowles2033! I don't know that Bowles did enough to warrant that extension, but now he's got it. He's not on the hotseat anymore. That won't stop the fans from calling for his head if the Bucs have another losing streak.
Guess I'm drinking tonight
Cheers to mediocrity, my friend!
Lucky for us our division is still ass
Not bad!Well, not exactly…
Remind me again of how many Top-10 offenses the “offensive guru” fielded in his 15 years as a head coach in the NFL?
Five as HC/OC and another two as OC with Philly.
i wouldn’t say it’s good or bad, as he’s got 4 seasons in the 11-20 range and then 6 seasons in the 21-30 range as HC. He’s damn-near the definition of average as far as that goes.
Well, not exactly…
Remind me again of how many Top-10 offenses the “offensive guru” fielded in his 15 years as a head coach in the NFL?
Five as HC/OC and another two as OC with Philly.
I had one as an OC, and four as a HC.
Either way, nearly 70% of his offenses couldn’t crack the Top-10.
13 of his seasons as a OC/HC, his offenses finished in the bottom half of the league.
Gruden is the epitome of overrated.
His offenses were top 10 in ‘96, ‘97, ‘99, ‘00, ‘01, ‘03, & ‘20.
I’m pretty neutral in the whole Gruden debate. Monte didn’t win anything without Gruden and Gruden didn’t win anything without Monte. I’m not sure how either’s role in the Super Bowl can be ignored.
I do agree he wasn’t the “offensive genius” he was purported to be. But with a record over .500 in over 225 NFL games, I could make a pretty good argument he’s a better HC than OC. Less than 45 guys have 100+ wins in the NFL.
Well Firebowles2023 will be fine with a simple name change to Firebowles2033!
IIRC, that name started out as FireLicht? Licht also got an extension. Maybe FireLicht now FireBowles might become FireGlazers2025?
If Bowles turns it around like Licht, I'll gladly eat crow and change my name to FireFire2027
lol, I would love to be able to bump this thread in the future. Who knows though!
His offenses were top 10 in ‘96, ‘97,
What a weird debate about Gruden. He was called an offensive genius because of he actual performance and at a very young age. DH talking trash about him about a title given to him decades ago and that has a specific connection to the Bucs lol.
He was labeled an "offensive genius" because he took the Eagles offense up up and up when he was OC there and Ray Rhodes was the coach. They were top 5 in the years Biggs mentions. Then when he left for the Raiders the Eagles offense declined substantially. I think the offense went right to the bottom. Conversely, to the Raiders as the HC the offense adjusted for one year and then went to the top again.
In 1999 they put up 45 points on the Bucs and that 1999 Bucs defense was DOMINANT. In fact, Brook says that one way Gruden motivated them when he got here was by trash talking the defense about that completeass kicking.
he was a Holgren disciple and he was an "offensive genius" in his times. His failing were in his role as a HEAD COACH post Bucs super bwol win . . and beyond. I mean, defenses adapt. Everyone went "tampa 2" and then they didnt. Gruden's WC offense was tough in its prime.
I do agree he wasn’t the “offensive genius” he was purported to be
I realized I was looking at "scoring offense", hence the difference in our numbers.
But, my point remains the same. He was overrated as hell in regards to "offensive prowess".
Well Firebowles2023 will be fine with a simple name change to Firebowles2033! I don't know that Bowles did enough to warrant that extension, but now he's got it. He's not on the hotseat anymore. That won't stop the fans from calling for his head if the Bucs have another losing streak.
Guess I'm drinking tonight
Cheers to mediocrity, my friend!
Lucky for us our division is still ass
Yes, sir!
I like Gruden, just think his version of the WC ran into defensive adaptations.
I know he wants back in, and he got blind-sided by the league trying to take down Snyder’s organization, but he hasn’t proven he can make those adaptations he’s been working on since re-starting his fired coaches network.
He worked for us, and for that team. He had some chops, so as Biggsy said, he’s likely (now) a better HC than an HC/OC.
My point is that we caught him at the right time.
The issue is that I don’t think the comparison was accurate. I’m not saying I haven’t been frustrated by Bowels, but getting frustrated with a HC that hasn’t met unrealistic expectations is a pretty common theme for Buc fans.
But I also know what it looks like when you fire a HC who is also a coordinator, the last time we did that it took us 10 years to recover… sonI’m inclined to play out a little more leash, especially considering that the defense looks to have really been addressed, and the offensive depth looks to have improved to boot!
All the more reason to trust the plan.
I’m inclined to play out a little more leash,
I’m arriving at that due to the brass bringing on board someone to manage the timeouts, 4th down calls/situational awareness for him.
For the love of God, keep him away from the offense as well.
Just focus on the defense.
No excuses not to reach the NFCCG this year.
None.
My point is that we caught him at the right time.
Yes we did.
the game has evolved dramatically since those days but his reputation on offense was well-deserved at the time. He cobbled together an offense when he came here and he inspired the defense to be the best it could be.
People revise history to comport with their point of view. Gruden was every bit of Canales and Coen. Just ask Rich Gannon
"Rich Gannon publicly credits Jon Gruden with reviving his career and elevating his performance with the Oakland Raiders. Gannon, who had been a journeyman quarterback, found success under Gruden's coaching, earning Pro Bowl selections and the 2002 NFL MVP award. Gruden, who had experience with the West Coast offense, saw potential in Gannon and signed him in 1999. Gannon's improved play, particularly in the second half of the 1999 season, led to a Pro Bowl selection and a strong offensive era for the Raiders"
or if you could ask Monte who watched him put up 45 on his defense
I am not even a huge Gruden fan - he has many other negative issues - but he deserved his reputation on offense