I’m inclined to play out a little more leash,
I’m arriving at that due to the brass bringing on board someone to manage the timeouts, 4th down calls/situational awareness for him.
For the love of God, keep him away from the offense as well.
Just focus on the defense.
No excuses not to reach the NFCCG this year.
None.
JC will find a way to blame Coen
I’m inclined to play out a little more leash,
I’m arriving at that due to the brass bringing on board someone to manage the timeouts, 4th down calls/situational awareness for him.
For the love of God, keep him away from the offense as well.
Just focus on the defense.
No excuses not to reach the NFCCG this year.
None.
im with ya but clearly our expectations and ownership are apples and bowling balls
they are happy with just making it to the playoffs where as we were happy with 2023 run but want to see progress
The Glazers want a team that is competitive in December and the playoffs and Bowles had done what Gruden (post SB) and Dungy struggled to do. I do not think constant progress or having to win in the playoffs is the new bar. But it does look bad if Bowles and his teams are one and done in the playoffs on a consistent basis and he was extended before the season even started. But advancing to divisional or NFCCG keeps him in the driver seat IMO.
But I think we have to look at it as a complete picture of Bowles and Licht being able to identity talent on the existing roster and putting them in the best chance to succeed.
A big reason why Allen/Gruden had issues with the roster beyond salary cap/draft pick restriction was that they would often look for new players elsewhere. Meanwhile they had several talented player buried on the Bucs depth chart that could have helped them win games in December. Graham took too long to break the starting line up and see increased snaps. Antonio Bryant and Galloway would have been a 1-2 punch hard to stop on the field together back then before it came popular to feature two split ends on the field at the same time. They held onto Clayton one season too long and should have dropped him to bring in a legit WR opposite of Gallowy/Bryant throughout Gruden's tenure. There were good FA additions (Third Down Ike, Hovan) and drafted players by the Allen/Gruden combo but not being able to self scout your own team was a big problem that undermined Allen/Gruden combo when it came to December games.
That issue kind of carried over to the Dominik era where the Bucs did identity some talented players on their own team, but then they started to let it all be splintered away by Schiano. Schiano did lasting damage by destroying the ability of the Bucs organization and Dominik to put together a competitive roster. Schiano is like a wrecking ball to rosters like Josh McDaniels. McDaniels was handed very good rosters in Denver and the Raiders but proceeded to dismantle it all in both situations and he ended up flopping in both destinations. The Glazers do not want that for the team or organization if I had to take a guess.
This is where Licht/Bowles combo excel in that they are able to use all the talent on their roster before looking elsewhere and do not look to completely blow it up because they have some bumps in the road. They stick to their plan and do a lot of heavy self scouting of their roster and PS players. So they know what they have and what they need to go out and obtain.
They did not have an edge rusher that is dynamic in space but also brings speed/juice. So that is where Reddick comes into the fold as their "splash free agent addition"
Sometimes Bowles and Licht put too much trust in what they have on the roster to their own detriment (eg rookie Funderburk). But they are also quick to adjust if what they are doing with the roster is not working.
Winning football games is important but the HC has to be working with the GM to slowly build up the talent of the roster and I think Licht and Bowles are on the same page when it comes to building up the talent of the roster and that is why both received extensions.
Gruden and Allen plan after the 2008 season let down was to go on a free agent shopping spree but there were too many question marks with the existing Bucs players on the roster.
The Glazers want an HC/GM combo to reward homegrown players with 2nd contracts if they are worth investing in and prove their worth. Free agents should come after you reward the players drafted and developed which is probably what caused the schism in team building philosophy.
Licht has a background with the Patriots way which is you do reward the players worth keeping around drafting and developing. Patriots way is also about bringing in free agents too like the Gruden/Allen combo but you have to create the foundation first of keeping a core of players under contract. Core players has been the foundation of the Bucs organization since ever the Glazers took over the team and started with Rich McKay.
Yes you're core players are coming from the draft, but as you say Bowles put too much faith in what they had on the roster in training camp rather than trying to scrounge for a couple castoffs from around the league. How many teams fill their practice squad entirely with their own training camp guys?Sometimes Bowles and Licht put too much trust in what they have on the roster to their own detriment (eg rookie Funderburk). But they are also quick to adjust if what they are doing with the roster is not working.
Winning football games is important but the HC has to be working with the GM to slowly build up the talent of the roster and I think Licht and Bowles are on the same page when it comes to building up the talent of the roster and that is why both received extensions.
Licht has a background with the Patriots way which is you do reward the players worth keeping around drafting and developing. Patriots way is also about bringing in free agents too like the Gruden/Allen combo but you have to create the foundation first of keeping a core of players under contract.
And as for building slowly, thats great but at some point you have to try to take advantage and go for it. Other than Baker Mayfield, which player if they went missing would force your entire gameplan to change? That's 30 year old Vita Vea. He's in his prime, but not for long. There's no replacing him, and he's not going to be able to do what he does forever. Don't take Vea for granted.
I’m inclined to play out a little more leash,
I’m arriving at that due to the brass bringing on board someone to manage the timeouts, 4th down calls/situational awareness for him.
For the love of God, keep him away from the offense as well.
Just focus on the defense.
No excuses not to reach the NFCCG this year.
None.
im with ya but clearly our expectations and ownership are apples and bowling balls
they are happy with just making it to the playoffs where as we were happy with 2023 run but want to see progress
They have 2 Super Bowls . . and . . . low expectations
:-)
Just another way to look at it . . . through the application of logic
To support that take, it would have to be that the Glazers are low expectation sell outs. . . so they have led the putrid Bucs to 2 Super Bowls, are doling out millions to improve the stadium, they re-sign and sing every free agent the GM and coach want . . .but also have low expectations?
AND . . . . Licht is a "genius" and "one of the best GMs in the game" . who went out and got Arians and Brady to win a Super Bowl. . . but he is also, simultaneously, a low expectation idiot , , because . . why else would he want an "incompetent" Bowles extended?
OR . . Most posters who would agree with your "Glazers have low expectations" claim ALSO have claimed here (often for multiple seasons) that Bowles was an incompetent coach who was "holding the Bucs back " or some version of that.
All those posters - united in their belief that the Glazer and Licht have "low expectations" and "Bowles is incompetent" . . . could be right. It could alos be that reality is warped, even into the seeming contradictions above . . .to protect the premise? The belief, posted over and over, that Bowles is incompetent.
Bowles may get fired after this season because the Bucs have a terrible collapse, but those examples (Glazers and Licht are both successful and low expectation failures) are logical disconnects that should suggest that the the premise (Bowles is an incompetent DEI hire) might just be wrong.
Either way, its going to be an interesting season . .
Bowles put too much faith in what they had on the roster in training camp rather than trying to scrounge for a couple castoffs from around the league.
not sure that is what is happening.
I think the alternative is that Bowles would rather go with guys who have practiced/played in the system. That can easily be a valid criticism of Bowles because it suggest the system is too complex, but if you listen to him speak (think last season when is the LB help coming on) or watch him bring back BAD players who know the system . . hes always suggesting that players have to understand the moving parts s and someone who does may be more valuable to him, even if less talented than some plug/play guy from outside
I’m inclined to play out a little more leash,
I’m arriving at that due to the brass bringing on board someone to manage the timeouts, 4th down calls/situational awareness for him.
For the love of God, keep him away from the offense as well.
Just focus on the defense.
No excuses not to reach the NFCCG this year.
None.
im with ya but clearly our expectations and ownership are apples and bowling balls
they are happy with just making it to the playoffs where as we were happy with 2023 run but want to see progress
Ownership should be thinking “we’re in a potential window” right now.
Do I think Bowles is the guy to get us there? No.
But, as I said before, with the brass forcing changes/bringing in help for his pathetically obvious weaknesses; I feel slightly more optimistic.
Winning a dogshit division and getting bounced in the WC this season would not be a successful campaign.
We’ve recently been to the divisional.
Conference championship is the bar.
But, as I said before, with the brass forcing changes/bringing in help for his pathetically obvious weaknesses; I feel slightly more optimistic.
Agreed. It's a credit to Bowles for being open about having a game manager. Game management is clearly Bowles' worst trait.
Winning a dogshit division and getting bounced in the WC this season would not be a successful campaign.
We’ve recently been to the divisional.
Conference championship is the bar
Agreed completely. It's time for the excuses to stop.
That's what the practice squad is for - to get familiarized with the system. The only new guy on the practice squad in 2024 was a punter. So maybe they need to take a look at how they operate and utilize the practice squad. Maybe it's a minor detail in the grand scheme of things, but it certainly came into play last year. And as I've said before I put this on Bowles, because if he requested that Licht bring in a few castoffs from other teams I believe Licht would gladly have done that.Bowles put too much faith in what they had on the roster in training camp rather than trying to scrounge for a couple castoffs from around the league.
not sure that is what is happening.
I think the alternative is that Bowles would rather go with guys who have practiced/played in the system. That can easily be a valid criticism of Bowles because it suggest the system is too complex, but if you listen to him speak (think last season when is the LB help coming on) or watch him bring back BAD players who know the system . . hes always suggesting that players have to understand the moving parts s and someone who does may be more valuable to him, even if less talented than some plug/play guy from outside
I'm sure the scheme thing is part of it, but loyalty is also part of it. There's a lot of loyalty going on - Bowles to his guys, Licht to Bowles, Licht to Godwin... That's all great. Hugs all around. That's why in turn the players stick with Bowles. But there has to be a point where you do what you need to do to win.
Regarding the game management coach - It's one thing to hire the guy. It's another to successfully incorporate him into the game management when the bullets are flying. That's the hard part. I know they're working on that. This guy's job is to help manage games, and he presumably spends all day every day working with Bowles preparing for the day when he actually is on the sidelines with Bowles - hours and hours I'm sure. But it's like the players practicing in underwear. It's all underwear practice for this game manager and Bowles.
I'm sure the scheme thing is part of it, but loyalty is also part of it.
Well, loyalty is definitely not a bad thing, but I get you're suggesting it may cloud judgment. That is true.
Last season, you might recall that the Bucs went out and found Ryan Neal, signing him to the practice squad. Ryan Neal was the source of many of the backfield problems before. He was still brought back. I am not sure Bowles is "loyal" to him because he was let go? Maybe, but i think it was more that the Bucs were deperate and he knew the system.
"The Tampa Bay Buccaneers are finding safety in numbers.
A day after re-signing second-year safety Kaevon Merriweather amid a rash of injuries at the position, the Buccaneers also brought back Ryan Neal on Wednesday. Neal, who played in 15 games with 13 starts for Tampa Bay last season, was signed to the practice squad. . .
The Buccaneers recently placed starting safety Jordan Whitehead on injured reserve due to a pectoral injury and are also dealing with injuries to safeties Mike Edwards and Tykee Smith."
Now, enough of those ^^^ "EXCUSES!"
OR . . Most posters who would agree with your "Glazers have low expectations" claim ALSO have claimed here (often for multiple seasons) that Bowles was an incompetent coach who was "holding the Bucs back " or some version of that.
Agreed completely. It's time for the excuses to stop.
:-)
quote data-userid="22219" data-postid="230812"]
It's a credit to Bowles for being open about having a game manager. Game management is clearly Bowles' worst trait.
Agreed.
Now he focus all his energy on fixing the defense and scheme.
Agreed completely. It's time for the excuses to stop.
Yes, sir.
SR's Fab 5 . . . gives that damn EXCUSE!!! and says the "low expectation" owners buy it!
"It took Jon Gruden seven years to win three division championships. Bowles has a chance to capture the most NFC South titles in team history with another one this year as he enters his fourth season as head coach.
Bowles’ critics will point to his 1-3 record in the playoffs, and that’s fair game. No one was happy with Tampa Bay’s stunning 23-20 loss to Washington at home in last year’s Wild Card game.
Yet Bowles finally beat the Rams in 2022 after three straight losses under Bruce Arians. His teams have gone 5-1 versus the Saints, including sweeps in 2022 and 2024, and 5-1 against the Panthers, including sweeps in 2023 and 2024. Not to mention back-to-back blowout wins over the Super Bowl champion Eagles in the 2023 playoffs and in Week 4 of the 2024 season.
Tampa Bay’s 21-16 upset win at Detroit in Week 2 last year was also a signature win, as the Lions wound up tied with the Chiefs for the best record in football last year at 15-2.
Now Bowles does have scores to settle with San Francisco (0-3 over three years) and Atlanta (2-4 over three years) this year, especially after getting swept by Kirk Cousins and the Falcons last year. But the fact that the Bucs went from an older team that Bowles inherited in 2022 to a very young yet talented team over the past two seasons – all while improving the win total each year — is remarkable and noteworthy.
The Glazers opted to stick with Bowles, who is a true leader of men, and recognized that his defense suffered from injuries and a lack of quality depth – rather than any perceived shortcomings of Bowles as a defensive play-caller. Bowles and Licht have built an incredible culture in Tampa Bay that is rare. Team chemistry and camaraderie is at an all-time high – even better than the teams coached by Tony Dungy, Jon Gruden or Bruce Arians."